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"Building the Base" - an in-depth series of conversations with top entrepreneurs, innovators, and leaders from tech, financial, industrial, and public sectors.
Our special guests provide their unique perspectives on a broad selection of topics such as: shaping our future national security industrial base, the impact of disruptive technologies, how new startups can increasingly contribute to national security, and practical tips on leadership and personal development whether in government or the private sector.
Building the Base is hosted by Lauren Bedula, is Managing Director and National Security Technology Practice Lead at Beacon Global Strategies, and the Honorable Jim "Hondo" Geurts who retired from performing the duties of the Under Secretary of the Navy and was the former Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Research, Development & Acquisition and Acquisition Executive at United States Special Operations Command.
Lauren Bedula (00:09.192)
Welcome back to Building the Base, Lauren Bedula and Hondo Geurts here with today's guest, Zach Beecher. Zach is on the front lines of investment and defense as a partner at Scout Ventures, but also has a really interesting background having served in the US Army with the 82nd Airborne Corps. So Zach, we're excited to dig into your background, what you're working on today. Thank you so much for joining us.
Zach Beecher (00:29.804)
Lauren, Hondo, great to be here. A privilege to have the chance to talk about this and excited for the conversation.
Hondo (00:35.579)
Zach, so we usually open kind of with where did you come from? How did you get here? You know, we've had a number of veteran entrepreneurs who have both served in and now serving from the other side. And so kind of what's your story? What got you interested in national security, put on the uniform, and then what kept you on the tech side once you got out?
Zach Beecher (00:57.292)
Yeah, so for me, you I grew up, I was the grandson of an Irish immigrant and the grandson of a couple of Marine combat veterans. And so for me, it was imbued from a very early day. Hey, there's an opportunity and there's power and service. And so had the opportunity to go to college, did a ROTC scholarship. The Army had a good sense of humor, gave me nice three-day long senior summer from when I commissioned to when I reported down to Virginia. And then was off to the 82nd where I had the chance to lead paratroopers, fall out of an Air and Aircraft or two during that time, and really had the honor and privilege of deploying forward to Iraq. And there I got to really put all those different skill sets to work.
And I think I was exposed to what I like to call innovation at the speed of battle, which was, you we deployed with a set of equipment, rolling stock, all these different tools and pieces in order to support mission accomplishment. But really the battlefield was so dynamic, the context was shifting every day, that you got to see soldiers, airmen, paratroopers thinking on their feet around what was the right type of product and capability that we needed to solve any particular type of mission on that day. And so it was truly innovation at the speed of battle. It could be a net new drone that we were thinking about how could we use different off the shelf drones to support Iraqi forces. We were thinking about how do we cross load those in order to do everything from medical supplies and logistics out to delivering kinetic effects. And even just down to integrating software solutions in terms of how do you drive pivot tables in order to really model out what expenditures looked like for our Iraqi allies and partners to make sure they had what they needed. And the ability to do that in such a critical mission set, 2017, as we were working with the Iraqis to liberate Mosul from ISIS, was deeply fascinating, but also so important. And I think for me, it was a catalytic experience in terms of changing my focus for really the rest of my career. And so got off active duty after I was led our advisors there on the logistics side and transitioned to graduate school, thought I'd go back into civil service, but really quickly got interested in this idea of how do you drive this at speed and at scale? And I was a little bit disabused of the idea that innovation at the speed of bureaucracy looks a lot different than innovation at the speed of battle.
When I had the opportunity, I started asking around what different fields were there places to do this and focus on this type of problem set. And at the time, dual use, is about 2017, I redeployed in 2017, I had started asking these questions around 2018 in the UK. And even in the UK especially, folks, this is not something that folks were thinking about. And so I had asked a mentor, hey, you know. I'm off active duty. I want to look at these big problem sets. He had spent 38 years in the Navy and he was like, well, any advice I would have given you had been focused on active duty. But I think you want to look at the innovation space. And so I didn't really know what venture capital was. And so I sent an email to a couple of different funds and I said, hey, I'm not really sure what this field is. I want to learn more. And do you think you could meet for a coffee? Those, actually the very first meeting came in, met for a coffee, they explained to what venture capital was, and they said at the end, well how about an internship? That's the best way to figure it out. And so I got into a small dual use fund in London actually, and worked as an intern, and I totally fell in love with it. And I think the reason I fell in love with working on the venture side and in this innovation ecosystem was that it reminded me a lot of working with junior officers and junior NCOs officers.
Zach Beecher (05:06.092)
You got folks that are dogged in their determination that they're going to change the world in a particular way. They've got an idea, particularly about a mission set that they think they can drive through the needle. And ultimately, the best ones are coachable. They want to work with you. They want to think about how they can be sharper, how they can improve the plan, and how they can push their advantage in every turn they get. And that competitive environment, the speed at which those entrepreneurs were trying to drive that and the mission orientation to what they were trying to do was just totally addicting. And so I've stayed in this space and been lucky enough to iterate through healthcare arena, help stand up America's Frontier Fund, and then really drive back into my core area of interest, which is this dual use technology with this partnership at Scout and get to serve along two other veterans here, one of whom I actually served with in the 82nd. And I'm extraordinarily lucky to get to go to work every day and focus on how do we drive innovation at the speed of battle.
Lauren Bedula (06:04.188)
So cool. looking at the VC or venture capital world over the better part of the last decade, it's evolved quite a bit, especially as it relates to interest in mission and defense tech, national security issues. Any kind of macro take on that evolution or observations you've seen since you entered the VC world?
Zach Beecher (06:24.142)
Yeah, so I entered VC as a lowly intern back in 2018 and dual use was kind of a misnomer and folks kind of look at you sideways like, what are you talking about? And that firm, C5 Capital, was focused on really the cyber dual use arena. So thinking about how the UK and the US through their intelligence communities and large enterprise would leverage cyber, both in an enterprise and a government environment.
And I think when you explained it like that, people would kind of, the wheels would turn and you'd see that recognition. But I think like in all things, know, venture in particular in the innovation industry is that it all comes in waves and big, big kind of big tides, tides in tides out. And I think right now there's a ton of excitement because the tides in everybody's excited. The water is warm. Folks see the, the, conditions changing in a way that's highly favorable.
But just two years ago, I was on a panel in Germany and was talking about the importance of national security applications as a way to gain initial traction for quantum companies and drive scale. And I was called a warmonger on that panel. I understand we always want to be responsible about the way that we think about innovation and no doubt would agree with that. But I think with history as our guide, pressing problems that face national security practitioners are those critical capabilities where your risk tolerance is a little different, where you need to consolidate advantage in emerging technology faster, and you have a greater gravity on delivering that advantage in a shorter period of time than in almost any other environment. And so what I've been heartened by is that what used to be different chasms across the capital stack, you know,
People talked a lot about getting that early stage funding. talk still today about the Series B kind of Gulf. And then what does it look like on the credit side? Now that capital ladder, what you need to actually climb in order to get to not just revenue and contracts, but scaled production and scaled capability where you can get to that platform potential. That ladder is fully formed in a way that I don't really think it's ever been before.
Zach Beecher (08:46.336)
in terms of this type of innovation economy serving these types of problems at scale. And so, you know, I think for us there couldn't be a better time to be focused on resilience and the way that we build prosperity off the back of technologies that solve these big thorny challenges that our national security practitioners and government practitioners face.
Hondo (09:07.652)
Yeah, I think you're I it's really interesting looking back. I think for a while, it was a little bit, you know, Silicon Valley venture capital will take the software you prime you take the really hard hardware stuff, and we'll kind of divide things up that way. Is your sense that's changing? And that there's not that maybe necessary break and I'm not sure it was a healthy break. I think it may just been the entry point and and you've done a lot of you know, talking about refactoring the industrial base for the future. What's your sense of kind of how that's come about and where we need to be going as a nation in terms of having, we call it the industrial network, but bringing the talents and skills of all of these companies together to bear.
Zach Beecher (09:55.886)
Yeah, I think it's a great question. And I think the big point that we would turn to is if we are trying to build by subtraction, we're likely not going to get to where we want to go. And you get quickly engaged in a race to the bottom. So this idea that we're in this zero sum game where the primes are either going to lose or win or the non-traditionals are going to lose or win, I think actually sets us off on the wrong first principle s. I think a truly American idea is to consider the fact that we can grow the pie bigger and that we can actually think in a different way in how each of these players can factor into building a comprehensive, deeply advantaged, deeply attractive and capable technology ecosystem where one feeds off the other. A perfect example, Hondo, to your point is Silicon Valley. You look at the history of how Silicon Valley came to be what it is today.
And you don't get there without government engagement and government support. Government is, you we talked about those thorny problems. Those thorny problems and the capital that's put after solving them have typically been the tools that have primed the pump for totally world-changing technologies. Whether it be from the internet to DARPA's first research grant that helped Google get on their way. All of those avenues through Silicon Valley typically have touched some of these areas of critical national importance.
And so even venture capital traces its lineage back to SBA's early involvement with the semiconductor industry and the Department of Defense. So why do I say all that? I say all that because it's clear to me, and I think to many, that we want to all be rowing in the same direction. Now what's the way that we can do that in a smarter, more agile way?
Zach Beecher (11:47.586)
I think there's some common sense reforms that we can strike at, right? We can take a better portfolio approach through non-dilutive funding in the CBER and STTR funding pools. We can have a more metrics-based approach in order to identify and scale production of winning capabilities in companies. Get the primes and the non-traditionals to compete and incentivize their collaboration.
Again, it's not like we haven't done this before. You look at what NASA did with the commercial orbital system, it ultimately set off the race between the traditional primes and the non-traditionals like SpaceX and Blue Origin that have completely transformed the space economy as we know it. You the crazy part to me sometimes is that we actually know some of these answers and we've implemented them before. We just need to draw them into new sectors and think about them.
Ultimately, at the end of the day, when you incentivize collaboration, when you give clarity of expectation of what you're going to get as you move up the ladder, you get confidence that there's a marketplace there. That confidence is driven through contracts. Contracts driving confidence drives clarity. All of those things drive talent to focus on those problems because they believe it's a market they can understand, that they know how to perform and what their expectations are.
and that there's a future expectation of success if they can just meet those core metrics. And so for me, think common sense reform that's pragmatic on current government programs, new incentives to focus on getting folks to work together, that could be through evaluating off takes, it could be evaluating small business subcontracting plans. There's a number of practical ways that we can write that into legislation in order to adjust it.
And then drive that collaboration so that we're leading through addition rather than subtraction.
Hondo (13:40.399)
Yeah, I think, you know, many times with complex problems, we try and oversimplify traditional, non-traditional, know, prime startup, all that. I think your take on let's focus on core principles, get rid of the stupid, and then create the American way to bring all these companies together is a really beneficial approach to that.
Zach Beecher (14:06.254)
And I think it's a little bit of like starting with the ends, right? So what do we want? We want technology that's proven, we want technology that's tested, and we want technology that has core advantages. So, you know, I think to be dogmatic about the processes as they exist today isn't helpful if they deliver the wrong ends. So if we start with the ends and think about the means that can get us there, A, we can draw on case studies that already exist like we previously mentioned. B, we can get alignment about what it is that we're actually trying to build. And I think lastly, you get folks interested in the problem because it is that new big problem where you see the transformative power that it can have, not just in these areas of the industrial base, but across the broader American society.
Lauren Bedula (14:55.74)
And a lot of what you're talking about requires collaboration between these different communities, right? The high tech sector, DOD, and the national security community, and investors. And you were talking about earlier when you were in that exploratory mode, trying to figure out what you wanted to do next. You didn't know anything about venture capital and what it was. And I've heard from listeners that they really like that they learn about these different communities by listening to our show. Can you take a minute and just give your kind of elevator pitch on what VC is?
Zach Beecher (15:24.92)
So when I think we're doing our job best, we're a tremendous player coach, right? So we can help think through what are the demands and understand really our customers, right? So we think about the markets that we're trying to serve, who's purchasing those technologies, and what are the real demands that they're trying to solve today? What keeps them up at night? I think the second thing is that we also then get to think about how technology can drive that demand.
So we can inform and educate, whether it be government partners or enterprise partners, the art of the possible. So yes, you want a faster horse, but let me tell you about this car. And then I think last, and this is the most important part of our job, is working with those entrepreneurs to think through product market fit, strategy, and scale. Capital is a tool in order to provide that, but it's just one part of what I think most venture capitalists would argue is the broader and most important part, which is the partnership.
that you drive through that collaboration. if it's in that coach, player coach dynamic, you you're in the engine room, at Scout, we want to take the opportunity to be on the board and lead rounds. And we do that because we want to be able to drive that player coach dynamic. We want to help drive the connectivity. We want to give feedback on product. And we want to make sure that as the company thinks about its governance, its scale, and its improvements.
that we can be that honest coach in the room to help them think through best practices so that they don't have to learn any mistake twice.
Lauren Bedula (16:53.684)
I often hear this misconception as you see more venture-backed entering public sector businesses, particularly in the defense space, national security space, I often hear this misconception, well, they don't need our money, they just raised $50 million. Can you talk a little bit about that dynamic or why it's so important to get to contracts and the validation you talked about?
Zach Beecher (17:15.022)
Yeah, at the end of the day, the only real thing that matters are contracts. Because contracts signify demand and contracts ultimately indicate what the government has identified as a priority and any customer is identified as a priority. Right? What's the old saying of show me a budget and I'll show you your priorities? I mean, that's exactly what we're trying to solve for here. I think if everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority.
and if technology is relied upon just from the private capital markets in order to bridge it and develop that capability, you're at a risk of building a bridge to nowhere. Because the best way to satiate demand is to satiate demand through the real capability to real problems. And you don't know that you're providing that capability unless you have contracts at the end to show that that's a real demand that someone's budgeted and ultimately paid for.
And without it, I think, listen, you can run circles on this in a way that becomes not helpful. And you get a bit of a situation of the tail wagging the dog if the capital markets are the only thing that are keeping the company moving.
Hondo (18:33.306)
So Zach, you've been on the receiving end of technology. Maybe somebody asked for it, maybe somebody didn't. Maybe some provider understood what you wanted, maybe they didn't. And now you're on the player coach side of it. What's your advice to a tech company, a startup company? How do they think about in this marketplace getting product market fit and how do they, how should they best engage?
the customer. You one of the challenges I've seen in DoD is it's a big thing and there's lots of people running around and you know, you can say somebody wants my product but they may not be somebody who matters in this thing. What's your take on that? What advice would you give to those in the community trying to get involved here now?
Zach Beecher (19:21.772)
Yeah, so, you know, I always try to break things down into their component parts to help think it through. And so I think if I'm an entrepreneur and we think about like this, we think about the sector like this as investors, you know, there's really four core pillars, right? It's the problems that folks are trying to solve. It's the people who are responsible for solving them. It's the process by which they have to navigate to solve those problems.
And then ultimately you as the entrepreneur, you as the investor are looking to back the products that integrate across those three to solve those problems. And the challenge is really knowing all four before you jump into a market. And I think what we look for in our entrepreneurs is an understanding across those four pillars, a degree of, frankly, maniacal focus on a particular aspect of the problem.
an understanding and a nuance about who is kept up at night and has the budget to address something that keeps them up at night, and that they are informed about the process by which that they have to integrate their product. And if it's defensible, if the technology adds advantage and they showcase that knowledge, I think for us, that's an incredibly attractive opportunity.
We also, as dual-use investors, are thinking about that inflection point too, right? Which is, hey, you're not just solving a government challenge, but you're thinking about the way in which, you when this meets the commercial market, there's an opportunity to drive outcomes and drive potentially even a platform technology that is able to unlock other innovations and possibilities. We want you to have at least thought about what that inflection point could look like.
And whether that's a commercial company that's focused on those four topics in the enterprise world and thinking about what that inflection point could be into defense or government, or whether you're a government-facing company that wants to think about that inflection point, I just need to see that you've done that homework, you've thought about the broader context and the market you're in, and so that you understand that product market fit may shift slightly according to what marketplace you're swimming in.
Zach Beecher (21:38.158)
I'll give you a great example, right? We've got a company called Tern AI. They're founded by Sean Moore and Brett Harrison. Brett's a former Navy SEAL. Sean's a multi-time founder. Both of them are building a product that's focused on the alternative position navigation and timing. They use a variety of proprietary AI and motion sensors in order to evaluate without cell, radio, or GPS signal where you are.
on a ground-based system within one to three meters. Now, we were particularly excited about that, and Brett, as a SEAL, has experienced this in Afghanistan, and I've experienced it on a convoy or two in Iraq, not knowing exactly where you are at the moment that you need to. And that's deeply, deeply problematic. But at the same time, on the commercial side, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration's come out and been very clear that this is a contingency system that they need to see in commercial as well. so Tern has now had two articles written by journalists who have said, I didn't believe it could be done and it's been done in Fortune and TechCrunch. So you can believe them if you don't believe me, but they've really looked at addressing kind of this key inflection point, right? It obviously carries a different type of gravity when you're leveraging an alt PNT solution in a battle space. But, you know, if you're in the Death Valley or you're in a national park, you sure as heck want to know that you're driving down the right path. And so
That type of technology, they're scaling, they're getting incredible traction on both commercial and government. To us, that's a team that understands those four pillars, has thought about that inflection point, and is applying it in real time as they develop their road to market. And their success thus far has really shown it. So we're really excited about their potential, and we look for founders that think in a very similar way.
Hondo (23:28.284)
So Zach, let me take another if you're pure commercial trying to do use into the military. How do you coach a founder who is maniacal focus, but maybe not understanding the use case in the military and having humility to to learn the problem before offering the solution given they may not have the context around the product they're trying to, you know,
sell through those three pillars you mentioned.
Zach Beecher (23:59.222)
Yeah, it's a great question and we've come across this a couple times. I think first, the government has done a very good job of de-risking that initial market entry with the Small Business Innovation Research Grants. These CBER grants, which are actually up for reauthorization and appropriation this year, they're incredibly important because they help actually de-risk that initial market exploration of does this really apply to a government customer?
And the government customer gets to see those initial results as a way to say, hey, this works, this doesn't work. Other offices like Defense Innovation Unit, Army X-Tech, they also offer other avenues, oftentimes using that same color of money. But with DIU, using other transaction authorities, you get that same opportunity to get a buy-in from an initial market customer and go down that path. I think for us,
that de-risking that's non-dilutive that enables that exploration is deeply attractive. But the second part is the government gets a lot of flak for being a difficult customer and a mercurial one. And while, listen, I think every customer has those dynamics, the government is largely pretty clear. And I think if you're listening through the noise, you can find those signals. And if you have the humility to approach the problem set,
and adjust, you can really drive a consistent technology capability for a persistent need if you take the time to really focus on where you can do it. And so we would always encourage, keep that persistence, leverage those tools to de-risk that entry and see what you can do. I think the other point that I would make, and this is a little bit kind of tangential to the question, but I think still important,
is that a lot of the problems that the Department of Defense and the intelligence community face are enterprise problems, right? mean, if you, General Cain, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs gave remarks earlier this summer where he said, hey, listen, I actually really want you focused on enterprise problems because we have enterprise problems. know, Christian Broz has got that great excerpt in the kill chain where they're talking about the horizon of conflict and how they're gonna deter and these autonomous collaborative aircraft, they're gonna fly and it's gonna be.
Zach Beecher (26:21.816)
just an incredible capability and a young airman in the back of the audience raises his hand and asks, that's all good and great, but when's my Microsoft SharePoint gonna work? And so, you could look at even some of the really negative blowback that you've seen around SignalGate and some of the dynamics there of, why are folks relying on those solutions? Typically because they're convenient. Doesn't make it right, but it makes it convenient. So how do we improve convenience? How do we make it secure and at the same standard? But we do so in a way.
in a way that works at speed of enterprise and at speed of need. I think those are big questions that enterprise facing startups can help the Department of Defense and the government solve because ultimately we all want the same thing, right, which is a government that delivers when you need it, where you need it, and how you need it. And so that's a win-win for everybody involved if we can drive that convergence.
Lauren Bedula (27:14.099)
How do you coach your founders and entrepreneurs as they're thinking through partnerships on the industry side? So the balance between selling direct and also partnering with traditionals, other non-traditionals and the like, any best practices there?
Zach Beecher (27:29.762)
Yeah, so I think the important part to say here is like, we're a big believer in this idea of like convergence of capability. And I think all those pieces come together where you find shared opportunity. Subcontracts can be a tremendous way to punch above your weight, get initial exposure, build confidence through a channel partner, and deliver your capability to get belief in the system that you're providing.
Hondo (27:35.893)
Thank you.
Zach Beecher (28:00.014)
So we're always on board with that type of collaboration because everybody's a winner. You can provide at the prime level and then you can provide that net new capability that provides differentiated advantage at that subcontract level. And we talk a little bit about that in our piece in More on the Rocks. You know, I think partnering with integrators can be great because you can also find opportunity to move across multiple contract channels.
And so some of the work that Brian McCarthy has been doing at Booz Allen Ventures, some of the work that Shans Pickett and Steven Escaravage are doing at Digital Battlespace have been particularly exciting because they're really taking a pragmatic, capabilities-focused approach to getting new technologies onto the platform. And then we've really been heartened with some of the work that we've been able to drive through our portfolio. I'll talk about Havoc AI. Havoc is focused on building
collaborative autonomy for maritime platform agnostic driving that capability across whatever platforms the Navy needs to data at a price point that's reasonable affordable and attritable and We've been very excited to see all of the interest that that's garnered across the primes They just announced a major partnership with Lockheed Martin as part of that effort in order to make sure that
Havoc can drive value to Lockheed's medium USV portfolio, but at the same time, we can integrate some of those advanced sensors and payloads that Lockheed has. And this is a great example of driving increased capability through convergence. And so whenever there's opportunity to support our companies to drive that and deliver a differentiated advantage to deter our adversaries through partnership with the big primes, we see that as a win-win.
And so I think we are always eager and open for collaboration with the Primes when there's an opportunity for shared advantage.
Hondo (30:00.571)
So Zach, when we started, we talked a little bit about this veteran entrepreneur kind of mashup that seems to be occurring. And I really liked your perspective that it's about mission and being fired up. And for the veterans out there, many of which listen here, what are a couple of your either learning moments having gone into this side? I know you're still reservists, so you're still serving.
And whether a couple of things you wish you would have known or wish you would have known while you were in uniform that maybe they could consider as they're still serving.
Zach Beecher (30:42.542)
You know, it's funny, I always joke that my time in the Army was my great humbling. You know, come out of college, the whole world is yours, and then you're like, actually, you meet a squared away E7, or you're on a lane in Ranger school, and you realize like, okay, maybe I don't have it as much squared away as I thought I did. But you know, all joking aside, I think, you know, for me,
it matters so much because I think folks who thrive in the military are folks that are eager to be part of something that's bigger than themselves, to contribute in a way where they feel that agency drive that purpose forward and that they want to be on a team. But they're also deeply competitive and they want to win. And I think all of those features make tremendous entrepreneurs. I think they make great investors. And we just recently had the Veterans Affairs Department just recognized the National Hire a Veteran Day. This is my plug for any company is that veterans bring so many different generalist capabilities to the table. And I think for me, when I left active duty, there was a time about six months after I got off that I wasn't quite sure I was going to find that sense of purpose, that sense of team or camaraderie again. And I think what's been the most heartening about this experience for me is that,
At the end of the day, this is all a people business. Yes, we're driving technology companies forward, but at the end of the day, you work with people to build that technology, people leverage that technology, and ultimately it's solving problems for people. And so this is all about people. And I think one of the wisest things is from my days in the 82nd that I was told by one of those E7s was never forget to keep the main thing the main thing.
And I think in this case, like you can find that purpose and you can find those teams elsewhere. And I would lean into the unique understanding that veterans bring from the ground up of these problems. And I would have the humility to recognize that just because you understand the problem from the ground up, you may not always understand all the components or the context around it. And so keeping an open mind, being open and willing to learn is really important.
And the last piece of advice that I always like to give is you can't ask if you don't know. And the beauty of being a veteran and coming out and being excited and fired up is you can't harm, there's no harm in sending that email and asking for that call or asking for that coffee and showing up and being purpose driven in terms of what you want to be connected to and clear about what you're hoping to accomplish. And you'll be surprised at you know, frankly, the generosity of others and eagerness to bring good folks along for the journey.
Lauren Bedula (33:35.014)
Love it. Wow. Well, Zach, thank you so much for your service, for taking time out of your busy schedule to share your kind of best practices learned today and all you're doing to help kind of push mission along. We really appreciate you coming on.
Zach Beecher (33:49.782)
Yeah, thanks so much. It's an absolute privilege to serve and it's an absolute privilege to be here with you both today. And if folks ever want to be in touch, I'm always happy to chat. And so thank you very much again for the opportunity and excited for what's ahead.
Hondo (34:02.064)
That's it.
Lauren Bedula (34:03.61)
Thanks Zach.