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Join our Newsletter to stay up to date with Marley and Steve: https://www.TheRareThings.com
We're sharing our life-changing journey with psychedelic therapy, exploring how substances like MDMA helped us overcome deep-seated trauma, depression, and limiting beliefs. Through these experiences, we gained profound insights, rewired our brains for healing, and discovered new paths to personal growth and self-worth.
Rare Things is a podcast for those who refuse to settle for ordinary and crave perspectives that challenge the status quo. Each episode dives into conversations where rare perspectives create extraordinary lives. We talk to people who have done RARE things, defying the odds, challenging the status quo, and turning their wildest dreams into reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of what we do in our life, the way we respond or react to things is one hundred percent programs that taught us to be safe while we were growing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Psychedelics have a way of pulling you out, gaining that perspective and going, these are the programs running my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like how we saw this in some Netflix documentary, heal your mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine that your mind is like these ski slopes and the skiers are always taking the same path from the top of the hill to the bottom.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then when you have this therapy, it's like a fresh coat of snow that you can choose a different path.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's these new wiring that's able to connect in your brain, these new synapses that can fire, to create a new outcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about psychedelics.
[SPEAKER_00]: As an entrepreneur, especially for people that are so growth oriented, if you could do something that could give you five years of growth in a day, wouldn't you do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Wouldn't you want that?
[SPEAKER_00]: It has been life-changing for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like this needs to come with disclaimers to obviously do your research, speak to professionals that you trust.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not telling you to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's not for everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's definitely some qualifications and tools that you need before you do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: We approached it in a way where we, of course, very hesitant with our different backgrounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Canadian girls who's like never tried drugs before and when a trusted friend of ours saw me in my depression and spiraling and you know suicidal ideation after my divorce and said why don't you come here?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's this nurse here that facilitates this kind of therapy and it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: What drugs are bad?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, never.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you kidding me?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was at a similar spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, yeah, reached out and he was like, look.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got on an SSRI.
[SPEAKER_01]: And after seven days, he found out I was on it and he was like, that is not what's meant for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not saying that there's no use for those things.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he was like, that is not what the problem is.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, holy smokes man, get off that right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to bully your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to kill all your creativity.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not really going to live.
[SPEAKER_00]: One has been pretty devastating to me is recently the FDA has rejected the use of MDMA for people with PTSD and it is a one dose solution that has healed people from decades of PTSD like veterans who are in these third round clinical trials had one to three sessions and they're sleeping at night.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not I'm waking up with panic attacks.
[SPEAKER_00]: decades of PTSD from all things that they've seen are just gone, but there's such implications for pharma and the government to not have twenty-thirty million people on a monthly SSRI subscription and RFK set it in a quote the other day of like this this decision is going to have deadly consequences and
[SPEAKER_01]: it's done it's evil devastating that it's been rejected and it's it's straight up Satanic that it's been and I thought like honestly and the reason I think it's cool we're doing this episode is because I don't I kind of if you would ask me five years ago I'd been like yeah that's get rid of that are you kidding people who want to use that crap to like go help them so they want to get high there's wanted to excuse me at high and I really did think that and
[SPEAKER_01]: I downplayed it and it wasn't until I, I mean, I really started doing a bunch of actual legitimate research on it and, um, studying what it actually does in your brain and I was like, oh, who wouldn't want this?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when, because I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going there so I'm gonna go there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got to friendly with a handgun one night.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was so freaking depressed and isolated that I just I wanted to weigh out and almost took it and and it that's when that mutual front of ours.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like look Go do this and that was it changed my life in a single session
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's it's shocking that it's really one session and I we can go into some of the things that we learned from it or things that we got from it because gosh, those are deep conversations, but when I went I didn't know what to expect, but I just knew that
[SPEAKER_00]: as much as I was hesitant to do it because of my beliefs that drugs are bad and you also hear this stigma of, you know, don't do this, which I think the stigma is created and amplified to be very loud by the people who control the other side that is more financially incentivized instead of actual true healing that really gets to the root cause of trauma.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I went, all I knew was that I was dreading waking up every morning, and I was like, what do I have to lose?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because at this point, I'm desperate for some kind of a solution.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got on a plane, and I went to this nurse who was facilitating it, and like I had a friend that came with me to, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: Invite yourself on the trip.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was like, I just want to take care of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you're good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I came out of it completely changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I even saw you a couple days later and physically different.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was on your face.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see it immediately.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not like it was really still in you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, and that's when I was like two weeks later, I went into myself and sure enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember the first, like as soon as I felt that I was in it, my largest fear is that I was hurting my brain.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm gonna hurt myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't gonna be good for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: What have I done?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was very afraid that I, you know, and that's why I did so much research ahead of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love my brain.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, and I'm not gonna go, I'm like, oh, it's addiction.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, all the stuff, and it's not, it's not that at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then instead, I remember hearing, um, he just needs to be taught a little.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I started getting taught that I was actually at an addiction to pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the only way I know how to show up.
[SPEAKER_01]: was, and you look around, a lot of our societies that way, it's like, we don't show up out of purpose.
[SPEAKER_01]: We show up out of a pain body.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when there wasn't one, I was accidentally creating one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that showed up in my previous relationships, that showed up in my business.
[SPEAKER_01]: I built all my offers out of pain, fulfillment out of pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, every aspect of my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so in that session, that's when it was like, hey, here's your purpose.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, Jay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got it very clearly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very clearly.
[SPEAKER_00]: You coming from a very religious backdrop, like, speak to that too of, like, you had your own connection with God through that that kind of gave you the permission or the green light to be like, hey, actually, this is, you don't want to speak to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to put words in your mouth.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, for sure, though, that makes sense because, yeah, I'm extremely Christian and my biggest fear was that I was making God mad by doing it, you know, just because I think you're taught about
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like drugs is this category that's just this blanket statement.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, uh, addvils a drug, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we got to recategorize.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about psychedelics and what they really are.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I immediately started praying.
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as I took it, I was like, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, I was just like calm down.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're actually here to work on yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to learn some stuff here though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and it was a very self-awareness.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's, you know those, um, those Apple TV screen savers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know one of like, there's one of like the Golden Gate Bridge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's one, this is my favorite analogy to teach it, is like there's one of the golden great bridge where it's slowly like backing away and you're seeing the bridge on this new plane.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought to myself, I was looking at it one day and I was like, how interesting that those in the cars on the bridge are not actually having the same experience that I am, even though we're looking at the same direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: And perspective is the basis of like almost all wisdom.
[SPEAKER_01]: And psychedelics do that where you're still looking forward, but it like pulls you out of just this little limited lens that you have and go, hey, let's zoom out for a second because although you may not, you think, you think you're lost.
[SPEAKER_01]: But actually, let's zoom out and you can see that there's at least these road marks ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what it's done for me is create perspective that's been valuable from momentum.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The circumstances or the environment can be the same, but your perspective changes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're given this opportunity in this one day session, incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like honestly, five years of therapy in a day and from from going from PTSD and trauma and
[SPEAKER_00]: anxiety panic attacks depression not going to wake up in the morning to the next day after this being like I have never like I'm seeing a new colors and I have clarity now and what it does chemically so that we can also speak to the you know chemical side of this is and any drug is going to you know manipulate
[SPEAKER_00]: neurotransmitters and chemistry absolutely and so what this is doing is it releases a flood of serotonin while reducing the amygdala which is the fear center and so imagine being able to look at your life with such compassion even the parts that your brain your subconscious has like covered up because they may have been too painful to look at and so for me it was like
[SPEAKER_00]: with this rush of serotonin, so this flood of euphoria, I was able to see my entire life like on a spectrum and see the pattern of relationships that I had that led me to be so approval-seeking and just desperate to find myself worth in external validation and to be able to find the exact root of where that came from.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then to realize that it was an illusion.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know I'll get specific here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, this was after my divorce and also after a very painful rejection from my first relationship after my divorce before falling in love with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hit me so hard because I was spiraling and I will never be loved again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not worth enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing that I can do to make someone love me because I was
[SPEAKER_00]: I was seeking external validation.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was nothing outside of me that could make me internally feel good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though logically, I knew I could not integrate it emotionally.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I did this session, I was able to see
[SPEAKER_00]: My ex-husband, my ex-boyfriends, friendships, bosses, you know, the girls and me and girls in school and all of them were a pattern.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously the common denominator is me and I was, I don't think I ever, because I was doing therapy when I saw the same therapist.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Three times a week, crying over the same things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's, we hear that a lot from other people that have done that, and it's so cool when you can talk to people that have done it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Psychedelic therapy, all of these say you like break the fourth, the psychedelic fourth wall with them, because the conversations we can have are so deep.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen some, we've seen some shit together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that Alice in Wonderland meme.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen some, anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was able to, to see that.
[SPEAKER_00]: and realize where it came from in my parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I never would have thought, because I was like, my parents are great.
[SPEAKER_00]: My childhood was happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or at least I believe that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't understand the word trauma, because I know a lot of times you'll ask, people, did you have trauma?
[SPEAKER_00]: And they think trauma means like big tea trauma, car crash.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess just, you know, something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trauma can be not feeling hurt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trauma can be an abandonment wound when mom dropped you off at daycare and your child's psychology thought that you were being left and can be exacerbated by a future boyfriend that whatever, like, doesn't agree with you or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that trauma though is thrown around a little bit too easily now, also where people are like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I was late to school and I experienced trauma.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's like part of that is tough enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like life just tough enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a second part of legitimate actual trauma that actually creates a programming your head that runs subconsciously without you thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's also trauma.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's your brain installing these program.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, that's where I realize, oh my gosh, I am literally running my life out of pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have no other reason that I show up to the plate, except for when pain is going around.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if there isn't any pain going on, I'm going to create it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had no, like, that's because that actually makes you feel safe.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that funny enough is why I'm safe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at least know this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the devil I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what got you here won't get you there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like a lot of people that are running into this wall of these patterns.
[SPEAKER_00]: And are they conscious enough to recognize that it's a pattern?
[SPEAKER_00]: I certainly did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, I'll just keep finding another emotionally unavailable person to attach myself to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm good enough to them, then I'll be validated.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'll go for an even harder person and even more challenging person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the guy I was with before he was very emotionally unavailable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And me internally, unconsciously, was like, if I can make him love me,
[SPEAKER_00]: I am worthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then you run that program.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if that didn't work, maybe the next person or the next person or to shows up in business shows up in friendships and this all came from and this is it's a perception that maybe we it might have been like a two-second experience that happens somewhere in our life that our subconscious just held on to that's like, hey, this keeps you safe.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my situation was my parents had me twenty five, but like kind of unexpected.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they amazing parents, of course, and I think anyone would say that about, hopefully would say that about their parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I had a great childhood.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just want to kind of preface with this that like this is something I've worked on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just because you have a great childhood doesn't mean you don't have it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the exact exact same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: People are like, wait, but how come you have to go to therapy?
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have a great childhood?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, whoa.
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of crap happened, but that's not because my parents fault someone's just life, you know, living.
[SPEAKER_00]: My mom had me again a little bit unexpectedly, a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was an oops.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a little, I was like a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like already trying to validate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at this coming up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, but I'm still loved, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Just so everyone knows, and my parents are together and happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like we've made the happily, I let my whole life is trying to make the happily of after story.
[SPEAKER_00]: They, my, my mom was so focused on like being the best mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she worked full time.
[SPEAKER_00]: She sold all my Halloween costumes.
[SPEAKER_00]: She made every single meal.
[SPEAKER_00]: She cooked and cleaned everything herself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: My inner child just wanted her to play with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not that she didn't want to.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that she had the pressure of a being a mom and maybe her own wounds and expectations and beliefs and traumas that made her be like, I got to show up in this way to do everything and be everything for everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then little Marley was like, I just want mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that emotional unavailable mom who's not trying to be emotionally unavailable.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just focused and also a young mom trying to provide.
[SPEAKER_00]: I interpreted that as I have to work really hard to get mom's approval.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that stayed with me my whole life.
[SPEAKER_00]: until MDMA therapy showed this to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I ever, ever would have gotten that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because now I can look at that with compassion and be like, oh, I just interpreted it wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, it changed how I perceived every relationship that followed to be like, oh, that's why I was in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can forgive myself for that because now I understand where it came from.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can also see the other person's perspective of how I attracted them and maybe what was in their life that made me
[SPEAKER_00]: show up and pull them into my life because there was something to learn from it and you'll keep getting the lesson until you learn it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why I think this kind of therapy is so incredibly powerful because you could learn it like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there was a
[SPEAKER_01]: I just heard this is so interesting this guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I heard the quote, I don't realize who was from.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Einstein had like a peer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's like Dr. Gobeir or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's extremely brilliant.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just as brilliant as Einstein there, they would walk, there's pictures of them walking through the forest together.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like their friends, colleagues.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he had this interesting quote where he said, you cannot, I'm gonna botch the quote.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's something to the effect of, you cannot affect or change a system when you're still a member of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: When we use that in business, where it's like, that's why I fire everyone at the beginning of a consulting day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you can't be in it and let us work on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to act like you're not in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you can rehire you back in, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that's actually one of the benefits to psychedelics is that you can't fix your crap when you're still a member of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And psychedelics have a way of pulling you out, gaining that perspective and going,
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the programs running my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't choose that if I was conscious about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had that gentleman who kept working with us for a couple of years also who was saying, it was this shown.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, eighty percent of your life is not you making decisions.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually auto-pilot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can, everyone watching, listen, you can think about your day.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you do today?
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you actually like say here are the options?
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's the thing, most of what we do in our life, the way we respond or react to things is one hundred percent programs that taught us to be safe while we were growing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that we would
[SPEAKER_01]: continue to consciously choose and we send others on their option.
[SPEAKER_01]: And while we're still a member of the system, our own noggin, we can't affect much change inside of there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it pulls you out for a moment, you know, and helps you go, huh, I'm running my life based on pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting because I don't think it's a magic pill either, like I remember the next six months after that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Integration.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, integration, which is where the real work comes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I took me six months to get unaddicted to pain, and it just to be up conscious of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would on autopilot after MDMA.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, I gotta go do this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like, whoa, wait a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I have this other perspective.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm about to go run this program that before I'm with subconscious, I was gonna go create some kind of pain in my life to show up.
[SPEAKER_01]: It took six months at least for me to just stop and go, what am I doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's gotta be another way to show up to solve this problem other than creating another problem so this one feels smaller.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's been my pattern so far?
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do I choose the opposite?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I like how we saw this in some Netflix documentary.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's heal your mind or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it talked about how with this kind of therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also different kinds of psychedelic therapy, like psilocybin or LSD or
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many other things that we've also tried.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like imagine that your mind is like these ski slopes and the skiers are always taking the same path from the top of the hill to the bottom.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then when you have this therapy, it's like a fresh coat of snow that you can choose a different path.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's these new wiring that's able to connect in your brain, these new synapses that can fire to create a new outcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can look at these patterns that you have and
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that you're conscious of it, if you're not conscious of it, how can you change it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, you can't change a system when you're in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're like, if all you've ever known, your entire life is to create from pain and without knowing it, that's the system that keeps you safe because it's all you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you choose something different?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would I choose
[SPEAKER_00]: a healthy relationship with you when all I ever knew was chaos and proving and manipulation and the chaos that comes from like fighting and then making up and fighting and then making up that like high is what I was just used to and so when you first started to pursue me which I love our story I was like you're not my type because my type was
[SPEAKER_00]: narcissism, manipulative tutor, abuser, and you were not safe for me because I've never taken that path before.
[SPEAKER_00]: That path sounds boring.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that won't be fulfilling to my life because what was... Sorry, not a narcissist.
[SPEAKER_00]: What was the only double I knew was chaos.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I love so much about this therapy as a tool is that it just opens up.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like you have those blinders on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then just opens up slightly to see other opportunities in front of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because my, I think like one of my core wounds was this mother seeking approval.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that I would find my, myworthiness in someone else.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that also translated into what came up in my most recent therapy, which was like life changing for me and also for our relationship, was it also translated into a fear of conflict, which I didn't know that I had.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you can't read the label from the inside, but I was so afraid of
[SPEAKER_00]: bringing up something to you or to an employee or anyone in my life that felt hard for me because I felt like if I say something that you don't agree with, you could leave me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was even thinking the other day how, do you remember our neighbor next door?
[SPEAKER_00]: They had the light on in their closet and it was like shining through our window at night.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well, we have to move.
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of asking a third off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of just, oh my gosh, like everything you want in life is on the other side of your ability to ask for what you want and also your ability to believe in what you say you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I want a happy relationship with you, I also have to be willing to ask for what I need and sometimes that might create conflict.
[SPEAKER_00]: But are we strong enough to get through it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or are we also strong enough to say, like, hey, if that for some reason doesn't work for us anymore, I still love myself enough?
[SPEAKER_00]: that I can go find what I want in my life without being attached to a person or an idea because I was even talking to our daughters yesterday about like I in the past was so afraid of being alone that I chose people that actually made me feel like I was alone and that was not happiness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that I don't know if I ever would have gotten that without this therapy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That ability to just pull back and pull out and be like, wait a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know that's what I'm doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't know what you don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the worst kind of ignorance.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because that's the kind of ignorance that can actually hurt you.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're aware you don't know something, at least there's the awareness that you can kind of create a control or at least, you know, not they have to control.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the fresh coat of snow analogy because I also find that afterward I had an easier time showing up to everyday tasks.
[SPEAKER_01]: without as much emotional, like, whoo, got to suck myself up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I had this crazy state pre-stage routine that people know about.
[SPEAKER_01]: It kind of became sub-famous.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would do push-ups on my knuckles, listen, really friendly rap.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would, and I was like, re-altering, go from Stephen to Steve.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, bring the demon out a little bit, because that's how I knew how to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was exactly what I was doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would scream on the internet.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, sorry for everyone who filmed my ten years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get a lot of comments now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you're so cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: So calm now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is that?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, it didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what became the next fear for me was like, oh my gosh, did I lose my edge?
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the other reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once I became, except for that first MDMA session, I was like, if I go fix this, I actually don't know how I'm actually going to show up.
[SPEAKER_01]: That became the biggest next scary thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I, um, just expect the snow thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the reasons I calm down so much, and that documentary about this stuff on Netflix.
[SPEAKER_01]: Michael Paul, and I think it's so good, but it's a perfect thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: When they were teaching us like that, because the whole snow analogy where they're saying,
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, to get from point A to point B, my brain learned at early or at least earlier point in my life that you have to go all over here and the back around and take these turns and go around this tree and around this rock and go and then finally that's how we get to point B. Where a fresh coat of snow in the brain, which there's science behind this is not woo woo.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not believing that therefore it's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: It literally breaks and rebuild synapses in your head so that point A to point B is a straight line.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It actually, what I found improved my speed of thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was going to do the opposite.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that it was going to be what the seventies all thought psychedelics were and you're getting dumb and just constantly high and can't have a conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: To me it's been the opposite where it improves speed of thought because my brain doesn't go from point A to point B with fifteen miles in between.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like five inches.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you know what I mean and like I could feel my internal barometer drop because of that you mean I got to come up with a new offer or I need to come up with a new routine in my life I got to come up with and the way that I just thought that it took to do that the route was serious amount of energy expenditure rather than oh it could actually just be simple right and that that's like the other major benefit I found from doing it just once
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the transition from creating from chaos to creating from peace.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there is some anxiety of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, again, it's all I've ever known.
[SPEAKER_00]: When the water is still, when there hasn't, you know, you drop a rock in the water, creates these ripples.
[SPEAKER_00]: you then if the water is still, you can actually see what's underneath and that can create a new level of anxiety, but then the shift is accepting a new level of peace.
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned how the seventies were perceived as, you know, these woodstock or people that were taking the drugs and stuff, and I- That certainly happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: From what I also saw in this documentary was I think that the stigma or the perception or the propaganda was to try to turn people against this medicine because the government doesn't want people to be loving and peaceful and calm.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: The longer been out of military, the less in love with the government, I've been, you know what you're doing, you piece is crap.
[SPEAKER_01]: Keep that in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying what we're all thinking.
[SPEAKER_00]: My fear of conflict is firing.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of your eyes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a hat that I love.
[SPEAKER_00]: It says, uh, make speech for you again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a freely speak on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know exactly what you're doing FDA.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, and I'm a pisses person.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that quote?
[SPEAKER_01]: All it takes for the devil to win is for good people to do nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is me doing something.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to be silent.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we're doing this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: a whole other podcast episode that we will get so fired up on is talking about health and my cancer journey and all the things that we found that are infuriating about what is in our environment and our water and our food that is killing people and
[SPEAKER_00]: here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we'll stick to this topic of this episode, but here's something that can heal people that the FDA is holding back from people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I can't imagine where I would be in my life if I didn't do that therapy that
[SPEAKER_00]: that first time that then led to more led to us being together led to me changing how I show up for my family, my business, my life, the continued education that I'm doing, how I'm able now to speak out and share with other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: when when I got my cancer diagnosis and I was able to cope through that and then also share with that I know that even if it's small the ripple effect of that has helped people and I'm like that's that's my only
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my only intention on this earth is like, I just want to be able to learn, teach my downloads, take care of my family and give that to other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that I would have had the tools to do that if I was still constantly seeking external validation to try to understand that I'm worthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's interesting with this.
[SPEAKER_01]: with this, I mean, we're only bringing up MDMA.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of tools in the psychedelic tool bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're really like a small handful, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And people will often classify them as straight up narcotics.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, that's not what these are at all, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're doing MDMA, my gosh, gateway drug, you're going to go do heroin next forever, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not what this is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also not something that we crave or are addicted to because when we do these sessions, there are a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's not actually comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mentally, emotionally, it's not something that I'm just going to like, oh, just pop wood in the morning before I get to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Looking forward to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's exhausting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, there's a recovery.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a recovery and there's an integration.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no way that I would be doing these back to back week by week.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we also do it with respect in the right setting, with the facilitator.
[SPEAKER_01]: The guide.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that sometimes you'll talk to people and we'd ask like, hey, we were tried.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you may therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, oh, when I was a kid at Raves, like, that's not what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not what this is.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, there's, there's a lot of tools in that tool, though, and the image has been studied significantly, but I found a lot of use also with with others.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they all, they all kind of do the similar outcome, but they do differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I don't know if we ever do an episode on each type that we've tried, but there's been benefits of each, although they are different, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: A question that I've gotten was, well, now that you've done this once twice, three, many, for us multiple times, why do you keep doing it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, are you, well, just aren't you done?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, haven't you gotten enough or, you know, I've recently been public about how I've found God and like, well, now that you found God, do you need to keep doing this?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's been the question that I've gotten, how would you answer that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, gosh, well, great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Extremely religious childhood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very grateful for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always was taught a perception of it that this type of therapy was you were replacing God, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what people get afraid of.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, it's this or that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's this or that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've actually found the exact opposite.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is my own opinion on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my feeling has been it's actually reopened the channels to talking with God when I'm not taking one of those medicines.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: All it really is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're taking something that you can already really access in your own head.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was one of the biggest lessons after probably like the third or fourth time I'd done it, whereas like you don't have to take this crap to really get these outcomes.
[SPEAKER_01]: In my mind, the psychedelic therapy world has been training wheels for the thing that already exists inside of me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It helps me get and that's why I've been meditating more and that's why I've been and receiving these downloads and I'm not taking those things and it's been really It's been cool because it's helped clear up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh This is how I talked to God, you know, and it's almost like
[SPEAKER_01]: Now like daily prayer or things like that will be like the check-in.
[SPEAKER_01]: But going and doing, you know, some psychedelic therapy or whatever, I'm going to it with the intention to like really work on myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I've made God a partner in that,
[SPEAKER_01]: and included God in that, and not like, well, I'm gonna go over here so I feel really good about myself because I'm about to get high for a second, but it's actually really, really hard to actually very painful things come out of that that are good and get it out, you know, like, purge it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, it's not of this or that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually been totally the opposite.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was my biggest fear.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why as soon as I took that first MDMA dose, I immediately started praying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh my gosh, did I mess up?
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember saying, you mad at me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't cast me out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope it's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember I was praying very, very firmly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, I hope you're not angry at me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really just trying to work on myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I heard very clearly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's teach you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I found this is before I was even like in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know I wasn't like chemically altered by that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like oh, you're chemically altered.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why you're feeling great.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was before.
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes like forty five minutes for you to really feel anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when I started, like, as meditating and I started feeling, it's time to, uh, it's time to recreate both your relationship with God and with yourself because you're seeing it not in the right lens, you know, and back to that perspective thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love talk therapy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You and I both, I did talk therapy for a year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've actually done many times about a lot of therapists in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: This just speeds all of it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not taking a place of God.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually created more of a tenderness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that it's part of my path that was slow but gradual into finding God.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not grow up going to church, not group religious.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have any influence really until meeting you and then meeting another mentor who opened me up to it and then
[SPEAKER_00]: All these crazy coincidences that led me to an amazing church that I love on YouTube, that then led me to other people and communities, and then was amplified in the questions that I would ask while in this therapy that I just felt like I was, there was no other explanation than just these divine downloads, and then to feel like I've been given the tools to then also teach these downloads and help other people with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I actually want to hear your response to that as well, as well as
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you say to people when they ask why to keep doing it?
[SPEAKER_01]: You think you've been forwardly asked that more than I have?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had this conversation with my mom recently because I actually invited my mom to do it with me, which I think would be incredibly.
[SPEAKER_00]: You actually, we've talked about doing therapy solo, but doing this kind of therapy with a partner, like we intend to do it together one day.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've heard from other people that it's an incredibly loving and bonding experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can excited to see what kind of conversations or topics come up when this comes up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I asked my mom if she'd be open to doing it with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for a very long time, she was just like hard now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And more recently, she has been more open to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having gotten a full yes yet, but she's been asking all the right kind of closing questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, she's like, well, why do you keep doing it?
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was one that asked, well, now that you found God, like, do you feel like you need to keep doing this?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I asked her, like, why do you go on vacation?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good response.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you have to do it again?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you don't need it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could just stay home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Could just stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't need to go to the get on a plane and go to the beach and spend money on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you don't have to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she kind of joke, like, I do need it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We all, you know, sure you all need that kind of respite and rake.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I kind of just went off on this tangent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I had it all written down all the things that I said that I've learned through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, I found why I was attached to emotionally unavailable people and where that came from in me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I learned that about how to find real healthy love and how to continue to bring that out myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, my addiction
[SPEAKER_00]: to creating from chaos and then having to realize that actually creating from pieces safe, that my fear of conflict and
[SPEAKER_00]: I went on a huge ramble and I think I was talking for like five minutes straight without even a break of like, I learned this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and she just by the end was like, you got all of that from this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yeah, and I don't like, I don't think that I ever would have gotten that in just in talk therapy or in reading books or like maybe eventually when I'm a hundred, but imagine getting all of that in just one day and also getting it in such an experiential way.
[SPEAKER_00]: that it is rewiring my brain so that the next day I'm showing up differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: The things that I didn't know because the blinders are on and when you're you know in just a normal sober day-to-day life state, I couldn't see through my own rose-colored glasses of like this is the way that it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now having this perspective, it changes how I show up and people around me can see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: my relationship with my mom has changed in how I show up to her because of my own perspectives or beliefs or memories that I held onto that, you know, you said something about, I can't remember where you were, but something came up for me when you were talking, I was like,
[SPEAKER_00]: The past doesn't haunt us.
[SPEAKER_00]: We haunt the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we continue in our mind, whether it's consciously or subconsciously revisiting the memories that we are holding onto that have programmed how we show up and the only thing keeping that story alive is us.
[SPEAKER_00]: your present is what defines your past, not your past defining your present.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then with that lens, you can also have your future define your present instead of being like, well, I'm just the way in because this is what happened to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like this is what I believe now, and that's actually how
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I see that situation differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I could have been resentful to my mom, my whole life because she didn't come to my first grade Christmas concert.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was looking for her in the audience for her to be applauding at me.
[SPEAKER_01]: That creates a storyline.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also didn't know, like, that wasn't a top of my memory that I was ruminating on every single day.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was something that was deep in my subconscious that was still showing up for me, thirty-three years later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I can see that differently to be like, my mom was just doing her best.
[SPEAKER_00]: She had me at a young age.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oops.
[SPEAKER_00]: So grateful.
[SPEAKER_00]: She gave me life.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So grateful that she and my dad are together and happy and a great relationship role models.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I now having daughters.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can understand what she was doing a lot differently, but I just didn't have the perspective to see at that time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure that I've given my mom trauma that wouldn't be cool if we could do this together and have the tools to be able to communicate that and have such a deeper relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: And thinking of that quote for movie, we're all just walking each other home.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we have the power to be able to do this work on ourselves that changes how we show up to relationships, even if they are not doing that work, or they're doing a different kind of work,
[SPEAKER_00]: The world will be a better place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Hardy is talking about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's such a, I'm trying to find him all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, so each one of them has taught me a different thing, you know, and back to the, because I think that's one of the biggest reasons people don't even entertain the thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: of trying psychedelics because they're like, man, you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it God versus this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it God versus Psychos?
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not true at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was also Socrates said is the market of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Meaning like I just want people to even consider it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like most people just throw it out like, no, I can't even consider that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, entertain it without accepting it because one of the things that
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember when the floor of my life kind of fell out for a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was intense.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so intense.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was in a really bad spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I threw out pretty, not my relationship with God, but all religion, I threw out all relationships, really.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just I pulled in and I got super depressed with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's Ayahuasca that taught me what spirituality is outside of the context of religion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Separating the two was very helpful and it's allowed me to then reassess and realize why religion is there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't even mean, because when I try to go for learn it from the other way, sometimes it was just challenging for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not everyone's that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking my own experience, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But it helped me re-establish that relationship with God by first removing the context of religion and then teaching hears what spirituality is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And with ayahuasca ceremonies, it was like, oh,
[SPEAKER_01]: Gotcha.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it means to be living this in my everyday life when I'm outside of church.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: That really helped me a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that one Arshaman, one of the things he says is life is the ceremony.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times people in the ceremony you have this incredible beautiful experience and the euphoria and the emotions which is like such a dance, the whole experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a beautiful experience in both the highs and the lows and then you
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the next morning integration going back to everyday life and some people are like, oh, why can't I feel that way all the time in my life?
[SPEAKER_02]: You can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Life is the ceremony.
[SPEAKER_00]: The same things that you experienced in that one session are the highs and lows of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you might just be in a different state of mind for you to more easily accept the suggestions or the prompts or imprints or whatever the impressions that you get in that experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is the day to day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is
[SPEAKER_00]: what integration is is to take what you've learned and continue to show up with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I have pages and pages and pages and huge notebooks and in some of the therapies, I do record myself and have everything transcribed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I look at my notes from everything that I've learned and like on every topic, which I'm sure at all those topics will be episodes here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when I had an iOSca ceremony about sex being communication,
[SPEAKER_00]: sex being creation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't know if I ever would have learned that in my day-to-day life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That'll be a topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure we'll talk about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's cool to revisit these might notes from these ceremonies or these sessions and be like,
[SPEAKER_00]: look how far I've come and look what now I'm so proud of the things that I've learned that now I'll be able to give to our family, give to the people that I touch, give to the people that I don't even will never meet, but might be influenced by something that I said to someone that helps another one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just, it was devastating to me when FDA rejected MDMA, but also at the same time with how much we've learned about
[SPEAKER_00]: It's unfortunate manipulation that happens in media and regulatory bodies.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I'm not surprised, but I used to also believe that who am I to make an impact.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm only one person and I'm also Canadian and don't have the ability to vote in America, but I also realized
[SPEAKER_00]: I do in a way with my voice that I can share these stories and I certainly will have people and we already have had people that are like, how dare you talk about that?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's take that down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't go that wrong for yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, careful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Watch yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Watch yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna say what I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: We and we already have had people in our circle that we have been able to support through their healing journey.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether they did this kind of medicine or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: and their lives have been changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like that one person, it's worth it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that this reaches people that, and even the people that were just like us, that we might have been on our last legs and dreading waking up every morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there were people that we found that influenced us in this right direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so grateful for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd say as a whole, the psychedelic experience has helped me not create numbing in my life anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, coping mechanisms that you switched for different healthier coping mechanisms.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then to just in everyday life, just show up for whatever it is instead of numb from it and turn into the storm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they put like a little stuffed animal buffalo with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of our sessions, yeah, they have a thing about them at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but one of the sessions, they, they handed me a little stuffed animal buffalo.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, what is this?
[SPEAKER_01]: They go, the buffalo is the only mammal.
[SPEAKER_01]: that when a storm comes they turn directly into the storm thus making their time in the storm very short whereas every other animal birds and everything they fly from it and so they're literally in it longer because they're trying to fly from a twenty four seven they're like we're gonna go we're gonna invite you to turn into the storm all that stuff but it's been cool because outside of even doing it I've just found out my everyday life I'm like
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm not going to numb out anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm, you know, I'm not going to go be doing all the crap that I was before because I'm like, oh, man, I got to get back on stage or, oh, no, I got to go show up in my business or my life this way or, oh, no, I'm, you know, it's very easy to create a two-faced scenario when you're that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know anything so psychedelics and I was like oh Okay, yeah, and just being able to show up own it being the present and not being a pain body while I do it or muster up any kind of mask I mean It changes your whole life and so it is a personal decision for everyone to go do it and I obviously We're encouraging everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is absolutely we're not telling every you go to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very personal decision But just having both done it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean
[SPEAKER_01]: We're different people, even when we even started doing, trying to like, four years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't sound like we're doing it all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been just a handful of times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right before I did it for the first time, I think I was on the edge of developing a drinking habit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was thinking a lot also.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was, I mean, I lived with my best friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: So during the pandemic, we're at home, best friends living together.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were drinking a bottle of wine almost tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were drinking a lot of wine, I was drinking a lot of beer and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was also crying over the rejection that happened in that relationship that I just internalized so deeply as a reflection myself worth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was my coping mechanism.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I see it as like that was to numb and the really interesting thing about this therapy is you are feeling it deeper than ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does not let you know to the root.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in a way that is so beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's loving but doesn't it's the kind of like.
[SPEAKER_01]: They call I was a grandmother, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I always love that they say grandmother might kick your butt on this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, but it's lovingly because I grandmother kicking your butt.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, it's kind of like, hey, we're gonna sit down for a second here and I'm gonna tell you messing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like a
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go, I'm going to go take this thing so that I feel good so I don't feel in my feelings.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's quite the opposite.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to go into your feelings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I was having such hardcore panic attacks at that time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would black out and I remember I woke up on the foot of my truck once and while all that divorce on that crap was going on in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember I went to a specific ayahuasca ceremony with the intention of healing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You remember this?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so scared because I was like I just don't want to panic attack while I'm under ayahuasca.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just don't want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't want to want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as soon as we'd like to take the fear to see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as soon as we took the first thing someone turned to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know someone out there were here and they had something like that or there was an alcoholic member.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's in the room with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember and people bring in really intense problems and being very real and vulnerable.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I remember she turned to me and she goes, yeah, they had the most aggressive episode they've ever had and now they don't anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh crap.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have the most hardcore panic attack.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had my entire life and never had them again though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Healed it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I had little bounce, little, you know, little tiny little flutters, but nothing, never an actual panic attack since then.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was having two to three a day for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only way out is through.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Buffalo, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why when someone's like, oh, it doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you don't know what it is then.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and it's not a medicine where like, you got to take this pill and already feed it feel better.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a, that's an SSRI.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're going to alter your states.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can actually just show up and function, but mask this pulls all the masks down and figures out the reason you need it in the first place and says, why don't we just put the mask down whenever you're ready, but I'm going to constantly invite you why you're needing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is our SSRI.
[SPEAKER_00]: or the other medications, maybe I shouldn't just label these ones, but some of the other ones are the pain killers, and these are the pain feelers, but the only way out is through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe to wrap this up, what would you say to people, because we've heard this too, I'm just scared to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So were we at the beginning?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and and also just for full transparency, we are not at all suggesting that there's not people who do not.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll say that a hundred times.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do not benefit from SSRIs.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I like that's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Get help.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the number one square, you know, so absolutely just get help if you need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll know, and no one else does be honest about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if someone's afraid to do it, and I'm scared to the same, I'm scared to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna find this really special community that is also scared, but is that anyway?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you find just these, I'm sorry, but just these bad ass human beings that lean straight into their problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's done in such a loving manner where it's like, it's kind of like any time I've done any psychedelic, it's like we're gonna,
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to run with you to the speed that you're willing to run and no more.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if this is because it's still a loving thing, it's not the kind of thing
[SPEAKER_01]: There's only been like two times ever where I felt like that was two intense.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I would have swam that fast, but it kind of made me, you know, but for the most part, especially MDMA because it just turns off your first center.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like almost chemically impossible to feel fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like truth, Sierra, it comes out.
[SPEAKER_00]: The stuff that comes out of your mouth, I'm like, did I just say that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're not all the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a little bit more intense than MDMA.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had this thing come out while I was in MDMA where I was like, it's easier to be poor than to ask for help.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, just taken back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did that just come out of my mouth?
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that I felt that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And gosh, I don't why I could keep going on from here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really want to probably wrap this one up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to say, I do want to end with one thing though.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're talking to, that's not going to our kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was trying to teach him that you look, you get what you look for in life, not necessarily what you're true.
[SPEAKER_01]: You look for, you see what you look for.
[SPEAKER_01]: You are not necessarily seeing truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're seeing what you look for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our brains have four billion bits of information coming in every day.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what our brain really is is a deletion machine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the whole point of the Razor sectors.
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have the particular activation system and what it's doing is it is choosing what to not delete so that you notice it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like when you buy a car and suddenly you see that same car everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were always there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just now your brain is tuned to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what I think is beautiful about psychedelic therapy, is it gives you chance to go back and say, what is my brain tuned to?
[SPEAKER_01]: That I didn't even know I was tuning to, therefore seeing therefore believing to be true when it may not actually be what's real.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you actually, you are living in an altered state of reality, believing it's true through really in the matrix.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so that's what I would say also if someone's afraid of it, it's like, well, how in love with you, how in love with the matrix are you?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, truth or tradition, do you want to move forward or do you want to, you know, that's what I would say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening to rare things.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're rare, otherwise you wouldn't listen to this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're meant for greatness.
[SPEAKER_01]: You also know your ideas, unique perspectives, and drive, make you rare for a reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you likely feel a future mission for yourself, so surround yourself with others who are just as rare, because staying connected with people who share that drive keeps your momentum strong and your vision sharp.
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