Laying Down the Law: Accountant Edition

On this episode, Billy and his guest go over the case of Mill Street Church of Christ v Hogan. Hear all about workers comp and what constitutes someone an employee for a company.


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What is Laying Down the Law: Accountant Edition?

Billy DeClercq, Esq. - a real lawyer - invites comedians and improvisers to discuss real legal cases and concepts. He helps them dissect the case, then they throw it in the improv blender to create comedic magic in completely original scenes. Then, Billy throws off his gloves and goes for the jugular by asking heavyweight questions to find out what makes his guests tick.

Attention: This is a machine-generated transcript. As such, there may be spelling, grammar, and accuracy errors throughout. Thank you for your understanding!

Speaker1: [00:00:03] From the beyond unreasonable to help studios. In association with fighter production.

[00:00:11] It's lay down the law.

Speaker1: [00:00:19] With your host, Billy de Klerk.

Speaker2: [00:00:22] Hey, that's me.

Speaker1: [00:00:23] Yeah, that's right. Billy, that's you. Featuring Cathy Eller, Tony, Senator and Bea Smith. Only a mad man would dare to bring these people together to build a world of law and order only to tear it apart with laughter. That mad man is attorney Billy de Klerk. The result is a podcast blasted to the farthest reaches of the Internet. That podcast is this one, and it starts right now.

Speaker2: [00:00:55] Welcome to Laying Down the Law Earmark Edition, the Law and comedy podcast hosted by me, Bill de Klerk. I'd like to introduce my three returning guests today. First, welcome back. A star of the legal comedy show Law and Disorder returning guest, most memorably known for playing a certain president, talking to a certain Ukrainian president on this very podcast. She's a costume designer with five stars on poshmark, a comic and improviser, an actor from the Upright Citizens Brigade and the star of Live Rude Girls at Second City, Hollywood. She can be seen in the films. Listen. Water and Will Jimmy the Church Lady Vampire Slayer. Welcome. You can follow her at PM style, the hilarious Pia Smith.

[00:01:43] Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Great.

Speaker2: [00:01:47] And welcome back. Another returning guest, the star of the LA Comedy Stages and the host of a comedy improv podcast, Super Squirrel Conversations. And guide for clueless rich people. She's a star of the Upright Citizens Brigade and a member of the Internet comedy sensation. You're on Mute, founder of the long form improv troupe Rave Propellers. You can follow her on Instagram at Squirrel Underscore convo. Welcome back.

[00:02:18] Cathy Eller Happy to be back. Hi. Finally, she's an.

Speaker2: [00:02:25] Experienced voice actor, improviser, alumni of NYU, winner of the survey's Voice Art Awards. She's the lead singer of a vampire cover band, Give Blood, and she, too, performs with the Internet comedy juggernaut. You're on Mute.

Speaker3: [00:02:40] Follow her on Instagram at.

Speaker2: [00:02:42] Tony Senator, She's Tony. Senator.

[00:02:47] Hello. Thanks for having me again. Well, I am thrilled to have all of you back on the show.

Speaker2: [00:02:51] But first, a word from our sponsor. Assuming we have a sponsor, I don't know if we have a sponsor, but maybe we will. I don't know. We're going to find out pretty soon.

Speaker4: [00:03:01] All right. A sponsor?

Speaker2: [00:03:02] Yeah, that's. Those are excellent goods and or services. Well, if we don't find a sponsor, we'll put in a PSA or something here.

Speaker3: [00:03:10] All right. Do drugs.

Speaker2: [00:03:12] Don't do drugs. That's right. All right, well, let's get into it, folks. This week's Case of the Week explores the principle of agency law agency being when one person has authority to act for another. So there's a principle. The person that someone is acting on behalf of and the agent. The person who is acting on behalf of the person like a real estate agent, acts on behalf of the principal, the buyer, and or seller of property. So the agency law case we are exploring is called Mill Street Church of Christ versus Hogan from the Court of Appeals of Kentucky from 1990.

Speaker4: [00:03:56] A recent one.

Speaker2: [00:03:58] 1990. I know. Usually I'm going back to the 1890s.

Speaker3: [00:04:01] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:04:03] I love the nineties.

Speaker2: [00:04:06] Who doesn't?

Speaker4: [00:04:07] Why is he wearing neon?

Speaker2: [00:04:09] He was. He was probably wearing plaid and and some torn up jeans. So this is a case involving worker's compensation insurance. When the the plaintiff, Mr. Hogan, got injured painting a church. So in 1986, the elders.

Speaker3: [00:04:28] See a member of the church.

Speaker2: [00:04:30] That is a great question. I don't know the answer. I think so. But it wasn't it wasn't his membership in the church that caused his injury. I will point that out.

Speaker3: [00:04:38] Okay.

Speaker2: [00:04:40] They decided the church needed to be repainted because and I quote, Maintaining a safe and attractive place of worship clearly is part of a church's function.

Speaker3: [00:04:50] Yeah, that's true.

Speaker4: [00:04:51] That's true.

Speaker2: [00:04:52] Yeah.

Speaker3: [00:04:53] Matters.

Speaker2: [00:04:54] Yeah. So there are two brothers, the Hogan Brothers, Sam Hogan and Bill Hogan. So it's important to you, Sam Hogan and Bill Hogan.

Speaker4: [00:05:03] Are they related.

Speaker3: [00:05:03] To Hulk Hogan?

Speaker2: [00:05:05] I think so. Of course they are. This is Kentucky. You know, everybody's related to somebody. I apologize to the people of the great state of Kentucky. No offense is intended by this comment. It's Hogan is actually a relatively common last name. By the way, do you know about the Hulk Hogan case, folks? Do you know anything about. Oh, well, you know, the Hulk Hogan versus Gawker case?

Speaker3: [00:05:26] Hulk Hogan? Oh, yeah. He shut it down.

Speaker2: [00:05:28] Mm hmm. Yeah. So what happened is Peter Thiel, Internet billionaire, was outed by the website Gawker. And so in order to take revenge, he decided to fund litigation by Hulk Hogan against Gawker Media when Gawker had posted a sex tape.

Speaker3: [00:05:50] Of Hulk Hogan.

Speaker2: [00:05:51] Yeah, apparently there was an sex tape that the word spell sex. It was a.

Speaker3: [00:06:01] Yes. So we are allowed to use the word and we don't have to spell it out each time. If it should come up.

Speaker2: [00:06:07] We can. We can. Yeah. So you're not allowed to say the word. This is. I'm going to put a little I'm going to put a checkmark next to the little E. This is explicit content. We use the word sex. And so apparently. So he they posted this sex tape and he sued for, I think, public disclosure of private facts, some version of a defamation tort. And he won. He got like $100 million in damages. And it came out after the case that Peter Thiel had been secretly funding the lawsuit as basically a grudge against Gawker Media because he's a very conservative and didn't want to be outed, apparently. Time out. Hello, This is Billy from The Future. Just jumping in to interrupt right here because you asked about the Hulk Hogan case. And just after recording this podcast, I received a copy of Allow Me to Retort A Black Guy's Guide to the Constitution by Elie Mystal. I highly recommend this book. I received it from my sister at Solve for Better on Twitter, and it talks about this exact case. It talks about how Peter Thiel, who's a venture capitalist that founded PayPal was outed by Gawker in two thousandseven he became so angry that he started funding litigation against the website Gawker but was lucky when Terry Bollea that's the real name for Hulk Hogan decided to sue Gawker in an invasion of privacy case where a sex tape was posted on the website Gawker and he won $140 million effectively shutting the Gawker website down. Now, the commentary by Elie Mystal is pretty interesting, and I highly recommend it. It's in chapter one, but I wanted to interrupt and make sure that I got that information correct for you, dear listener. And now. Back to the show. That's got nothing to do with the Mill Street Church of Christ whatsoever.

Speaker4: [00:07:57] Wait, this doesn't have to do with it. But I've been watching Pam and Tommy, and they did not win their lawsuit, and their tape was, like, stolen and then post it everywhere.

Speaker2: [00:08:08] They needed to have Peter Thiel help them out.

Speaker4: [00:08:10] I guess.

Speaker2: [00:08:10] So It sometimes justice doesn't. Well, justice and fairness doesn't always prevail. Usually it's the it's very often the person that has the stronger ability to fight.

Speaker3: [00:08:22] Yeah. And he probably wasn't a billionaire back in the Pam and Tommy days, probably.

Speaker2: [00:08:27] Oh, right.

Speaker4: [00:08:28] Probably not a billionaire. Now. I don't think.

Speaker3: [00:08:30] That's probably true. Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:08:35] I did. Two days of background on Pam and Tommy. They had good catering. Hey, one of the guys who was in my second city class is in a scene in Pam and Tommy.

Speaker3: [00:08:48] One of my friends auditioned for Pam and Tommy. Oh.

Speaker2: [00:08:53] I know somebody who watches. I know somebody who watched one episode of Pam and Tommy.

Speaker3: [00:08:58] Hey, you.

Speaker2: [00:09:00] Know, wasn't me.

Speaker3: [00:09:03] I'm going to go outside.

Speaker2: [00:09:04] Okay. Well, all right, so if listener, if you decide to go ahead and pause this podcast and go watch him and Tommy, you can go ahead and recommend it. Yes, Right. Send us send a royalty check to Beyond Unreasonable Doubt Productions for four or five South Figueroa Avenue, Suite 3100. Los Angeles, California. All right. Mill Street, Church of Christ versus Hogan. The the Mill Street Church of Christ Elders decided that the church needed some pain. And so the elders decided that Bill Hogan would paint the the the church. Bill Hogan was a member of the church, by the way. They also decided that Gary Petty would help if if Bill Hogan needed the help. They had they had hired Bill Hogan in the past and he'd done other kind of jobs for the church, and so had his brother Sam. They'd done jobs for the church together. And Sam is the one who sues here. Bill is not the one suing. It's Sam Hogan who's suing. Oh, in answer to your question, it says here that Sam had been a member of the church, but he was no longer a member of the church as of the time of the facts of this case.

Speaker3: [00:10:12] Got it. Got it.

Speaker2: [00:10:14] Interesting. And it's an important side note. I don't know why it matters, but he had been a member. He wasn't when this when the when the events occurred. So Dr. David Waggoner, one of the elders of the church, Dr. Wagner, contacted Bill Hogan and and said, hey, we need the church painted. And Bill said he would. Apparently, he didn't mention that he would need to hire a helper. Now, the court wants to emphasize here that it's pretty clear, based on the size of the church, that Bill Hogan wasn't going to be able to paint it all by himself. All right. So, Bill, he started painting by himself until he reached the baptistery portion of the church. This was very high and very difficult to paint. And he decided he did need a helper. So he went to Dr. Wagner. He said, Dr. Wagner, I think I need a helper. And Dr. Wagner said, No problem. We already approved to hire Gary Petty. Bill Wagner said to the to Dr. Wagner, Well, you know, I don't know. Petty is hard to reach. He doesn't answer the phone very often. It was it was just just as he was difficult to reach, but they knew that there was going to be a helper hired. Very important fact. The church had some idea that a helper would be hired. No mention of Sam Hogan, but an understanding that there would be a helper hired.

Speaker4: [00:11:31] What Sam worked with for them before.

Speaker2: [00:11:34] You said he had worked for them before, but not with the painting job. It may have been before he left the church. Not really clear if there is a relationship between those things, but he. So it is important that Sam had worked for the church before, had done other jobs, had worked with his brother Bill. He just wasn't specifically authorized for this job. So Bill Hogan couldn't find Petty Gary Petty. And so he approached his brother Sam, and he said, Sam, I'm going to need your help. Here's how much we'll pay you. And Sam said, okay, I'll do the job. So on the very first day that Sam started working, he climbed the ladder to paint a ceiling corner and a leg of the ladder broke. He fell. He fell to the floor and broke his left arm. Sam was taken to the Grayson County Hospital emergency room where he was treated. He was placed under the care of doctor Dr. James Kleinschmidt, a surgeon in Louisville. They didn't know the church elders didn't know that Bill Hogan had approached Sam Hogan to work as a helper until after the accident. So Sam Hogan fell off a ladder in March, and it was in December of 1986, his first day on the job. It was a half an hour after he started.

Speaker3: [00:12:51] He fell off the frickin Oh, my God. Wow. I think they planned it.

Speaker4: [00:12:58] The church you think was.

Speaker3: [00:12:59] After him and the brother. Oh, could be right. Yes. Church has got money.

Speaker2: [00:13:08] That's right. Well, it's actually there is an insurance company involved. It's a state automobile mutual insurance company that's apparently driving this case. Insurance is also a big deal. So after his brother fell off the ladder, Bill Hogan went and reported the accident to Charles Payne, who is a church elder and treasurer. Payne said that he admitted that the church did have insurance. Bill told Payne the number of hours worked, which included the half an hour that Sam Hogan had worked before he fell off the ladder. Payne gave him a check for all those hours and Bill also he didn't use his own tools and materials for the project. For those of you who are thinking about independent contractors versus employees, that's an important fact. He didn't have his own tools or materials. The church supplied all the tools, materials and supplies necessary to complete the project. Bill Hogan had purchased those items from Dunn's hardware store and charged them to the church's account.

Speaker4: [00:14:06] See, that's what. Was he allowed to do.

Speaker3: [00:14:08] That.

Speaker2: [00:14:09] He was.

Speaker4: [00:14:10] Yeah, like being a freelancer when I was freelancing for like set decoration, like we had to buy all our stuff and then we had like they gave us $150, like they're like $150. But a lot of times. Like, what you need is way more than that. So why do they add it? I like that that the church did that because supplying your own stuff is sometimes they quote you really low.

Speaker2: [00:14:39] Well, Cathy, let me just take a pause for a second and tell you that that was wildly illegal.

Speaker3: [00:14:43] Yeah.

Speaker2: [00:14:44] What? What happened to you? The lawyer?

Speaker3: [00:14:52] And was it.

Speaker2: [00:14:53] Was it fewer than four years ago? Why was it?

Speaker4: [00:14:59] No, because that's what they do.

Speaker2: [00:15:01] Wait. How long? But how long ago was it? I'm like, Wait, I'm developing business right here on my own podcast. How long ago that happened?

Speaker4: [00:15:07] I probably yeah, it was probably seven years ago. Was it? They should have you to turn in your receipts and reimburse you receipts.

Speaker3: [00:15:19] Yeah, well, I.

Speaker4: [00:15:21] Like because, like, I would use like $150, but I would use like my pins, like I had pins because I, like, I help costuming with like it came on, ripped up like, oh, I have some pins. So like, stuff that I know I was giving away my stuff.

Speaker2: [00:15:41] Yeah, that is, that is fun.

Speaker3: [00:15:42] I also like, as a costumer, so no, I don't. So I turned in my receipts and then I get a cat rental fee so that whatever I use for my get.

Speaker4: [00:15:51] Me first and then I. Oh, yeah, okay. I got.

Speaker3: [00:15:55] Ripped.

Speaker2: [00:15:55] Off.

Speaker3: [00:15:56] You did very badly That again. Right.

Speaker2: [00:16:00] I'm sorry.

Speaker3: [00:16:02] Oh. You'll never do that again, right? You'll never. If you go back to that profession, Kathy will never accept $150 when you spend 300.

Speaker2: [00:16:12] No, no. Here's what you got to do. Let's see what you're going to do. You're going to let them not reimburse you. You're going to say you're going to tell them you're going to keep the receipts. You're going to say, oh, yeah, $150 is just fine, but make sure it doesn't get recorded or in writing anywhere. And then you're going to go spend $155 and keep the receipt. Then you are going to call me and we are going to sue the shit out of them.

Speaker4: [00:16:49] Then you just, like, incriminate yourself by putting that on a podcast.

Speaker2: [00:16:53] Nobody listens to this podcast. Are you kidding.

Speaker3: [00:16:55] Me? You'll edit that part out.

Speaker2: [00:17:01] I was.

Speaker3: [00:17:05] Sobbing. I think they I think this was this was a dirty deed on their part.

Speaker2: [00:17:10] It was rad. That is ridiculous. You have to folks, if you're an accountant and you're listening to this podcast, folks, you can tell your clients businesses they need to reimburse employee expenses. The number one fastest growing area of the law in the state of California right now is plaintiff's side employment claim claims. And one of the areas that's an easy slam dunk is personal use of cell phone. They take you take a picture for work on your cell phone and your employer doesn't reimburse you. Then you go sue them and say, I had personal business expenses. That'll be $60,000, please.

Speaker4: [00:17:47] At CVS yesterday, one of the girls on the floor, she was working. She was just on her phone the entire time.

Speaker2: [00:17:54] Oh, yeah. I think that is like, what the hell? Yeah. Yeah, I think that that is so. I don't know. I think a.

Speaker4: [00:18:01] Conversation.

Speaker2: [00:18:02] Yeah, well.

Speaker3: [00:18:05] I don't know if.

Speaker2: [00:18:05] She could sue for that, because unless she's not using it, she's not using it for work purposes, then that's.

Speaker3: [00:18:10] What I've been. Hmm.

Speaker4: [00:18:12] It made me mad. I'm so mad about it, as you can tell.

Speaker2: [00:18:16] Rightfully so.

Speaker3: [00:18:17] Then calling someone on a customer's behalf to get information about a product? No, definitely not.

Speaker4: [00:18:25] Because she was talking about kids going to school and blah, blah, blah. All right. It was a personal.

Speaker3: [00:18:32] Call for sure.

Speaker4: [00:18:33] And I needed help. And I couldn't ask her because she was on the phone.

Speaker2: [00:18:37] Who is posting to Instagram about those dental flossers that she needed on aisle 12?

Speaker3: [00:18:42] Right.

Speaker2: [00:18:44] Well, we've gone way far astray, but.

Speaker4: [00:18:45] No, man.

Speaker2: [00:18:47] It all relates back to principle and agency law. You see the principle here, The principle PR, I.N.S., IP, AL Principle. Principle. Like the principle of a school who's not your pal? The principal is the person for whom the the actions are taken. So here the church is the principle the church is giving. So the question really is whether Bill Hogan was an agent for the church that had the authority to hire his brother Sam. So this case comes to this case is an agency law case, because if if Sam wasn't authorized to be hired by the church and he was there for. Again, this isn't the state of California. The rules in states can be different. But if he wasn't there as the church's employee, then he wouldn't be covered for worker's comp insurance, and so he wouldn't get any money from the insurance company for his broken arm. So of course, the insurance company would much rather pay a lawyer than pay for a broken arm, because that's how insurance companies roll. And I have I have no insurance company clients. So so the question is whether Bill Hogan was authorized as an agent to hire his brother. Now, remember, what are the facts? You know, folks, this is where we're going to do a little quizzing, you know, who is paying attention, What are the facts that support the idea that Bill had the agency authority to hire Sam?

Speaker4: [00:20:24] Well, you said that it was obvious that he would need help based on the size of the church.

Speaker2: [00:20:31] That's true. He also remember they discussed Mr. Petty.

Speaker4: [00:20:36] Right. Right. And he was unavailable.

Speaker2: [00:20:39] He was unavailable. But they knew that he was going to need a helper. And they authorized him to hire Mr. Petty. Also, Sam Hogan had worked for the church before.

Speaker4: [00:20:50] Right.

Speaker2: [00:20:50] So they knew that they were going to need. He was going to need a helper. They knew he couldn't paint it by himself. They knew. They said he could hire a helper. And after the fact, when he went to the Treasurer. Now here's you now you CPA's who are listening here, here's where you can help your clients. The Treasurer wrote a check meaning to be helpful for that half an hour of work that Sam did before he fell off the ladder.

Speaker3: [00:21:11] Oh, that's good. Yeah. Once it is back, it's all.

Speaker4: [00:21:16] So since he was paid, then, obviously.

Speaker3: [00:21:20] Well, it's okay.

Speaker2: [00:21:21] It's another fact supporting the idea that Bill Hogan was authorized to hire Sam because Mr. Charles Payne paid for that half an hour of time. Paid for the supplies.

Speaker3: [00:21:32] What was a half an hour's time worth back in 1986.

Speaker2: [00:21:37] 1986. $0.12?

Speaker3: [00:21:41] I don't know. $5.

Speaker2: [00:21:44] $5? Yeah. So he gave him a check for all of the hours, including his brother's time, and reimbursed him for the expenses. Dunn's hardware store. And so. So there are two doctrines of authority here that the court's looking at. One is implied or actual authority, and the other is apparent authority. So those of you that are taking notes, this is where you'd pull out your notebook and those of you that are taking a quiz. This is an excellent point for a quiz question. The difference between implied or actual authority or apparent authority, actual authority is that the principle here, the church actually intended for the agent to have the authority to do things that are necessary to carry out the purpose of the delegated task. So here Bill Hogan was put in charge of painting the church. The church gave him the actual or implied authority to do whatever he needed to do to paint the frickin church. And so so you look at the relationship and basically the church said, You, Bill Hogan, you're going to paint the church and do what you need to do, buy the supplies, get a helper, whatever you need to do, that's your job. We just want to see the church painted it by the time you're done. It didn't necessarily matter that the church was hoping that he'd hire somebody who was still going to the church. Mr. Petty And not someone who had dropped out. Mr. Sam Hogan But they knew that he was going to need somebody. So all those all those factors, support and actual authority that Bill Hogan, as the agent of the church, had the authority to hire his brother as a helper.

Speaker4: [00:23:15] It never said that he can't hire someone who's not in the church.

Speaker2: [00:23:19] Right. Right. So all that authority is implied. When you ask somebody to do something, you are you're basically they're your agent, meaning that they're in charge of completing that task and they have the authority they need to complete that task. So in principle, an agency law, the reason that's important is that when an agent is authorized to act on behalf of the principal, then the agent can bind, quote unquote, the word is bind the principal. So the church is responsible, legally responsible for what Bill Hogan did because he was acting within the scope of his authority. So he was he was allowed to hire somebody. So the church is responsible. So the other version of agency here that we're talking about is apparent authority. So this is not the same thing as actual authority or implied authority that comes with the position. We're looking at the perspective of Sam, Bill's brother. So Sam is from from his perspective, from where he's sitting, he doesn't necessarily know all the things that Bill knows about. They were that they were going to hire another person, that he was allowed to hire a helper, that they told him he could do what he needed to do to complete the job, that that he had basically been put in charge of this job. He just knew Bill's painting the church and he asked me to help. So so the idea of apparent authority is to protect these third parties who are relying on the impression that the other person is is acting on behalf of the church. It's it's basically called the reliance interest. That's that Sam Hogan had the ability to rely on his on his brother's representation or his behavior that implied that he had the sorry, that's that word implied, but that that apparently meant he could hire him.

Speaker2: [00:25:05] So because from Sam's perspective, it's not fair if the church says, well, we didn't say he could hire your brother. Right. It's not fair that that from his perspective, it seemed like they could have. So the church is from the church's perspective, it's kind of unfair. Air because they're not in control of who gets hired. Right. And and they're charged. So if Bill had hired Sam and done something wrong and and the church was charged with that behavior because they put bill in charge and then build it something crazy. Right. He's the agent, apparently. And so the law kind of looks at these two people in different perspectives and they say, well, the principle, the church has a better ability to choose an agent or to put somebody in charge has a better ability to control. And so in between, when we're deciding between what's fair to someone who's a third party who doesn't know whether the person is really an agent or not, and the principal, the person who's ultimately responsible, we're going to stick it to the principal also. That's the insurance company. So I'm going to stick it to the insurance company. So so there's lots of reasons. He had been he had worked for the church before. He had been paid for the work. It was something that happened in the past. So so the court here is looking at basically two reasons why there would be authority.

Speaker4: [00:26:33] Can I just say it sounds so. It sounds so formal. Like my church growing up, Lake was next to a school, and like, the school janitor was also the PE teacher who also did stuff in the church. So it seems like right here like that, they seem like any church. Church is always about like small communities and stuff that they would have not been so serious with Sam, like they would have been like, Oh, yeah, it's his brother. I'm like, If he didn't fall and cost them money, like they wouldn't care who he hired.

Speaker3: [00:27:08] True fell and cost them money. I think that's why you know what I mean. Hey, Sam, you know, bring your whole family and paint the church. But that's when. Well, that's when, Billy. That's when. That's when we decide to do a podcast about it.

Speaker4: [00:27:30] It wouldn't cost them less just to pay for it instead of go through all this legal stuff.

Speaker2: [00:27:36] You know, that is a that is a really good question. A cost benefit analysis. I don't know. I mean, presumably the insurance company was considering that, although there's also, you know, well, I could go on a long diatribe about the law and economics here. Do you have do you want to go on this journey with me?

Speaker3: [00:27:54] I don't know.

Speaker2: [00:27:55] Okay. So. So.

Speaker3: [00:27:59] Yeah. Was Sam. I mean, how did it become a legal matter? Like, did the church just say when he said, Hey, who's going to pay for my hospital bills? Did the church try to deny him?

Speaker2: [00:28:12] So what had happened in the initial case? So this is an appeal. In the initial case, the Worker's compensation board had said for worker's comp purposes, Sam is your employee. So the church really the insurance company appealed. In the case of insurance companies, typically they have attorneys that they pay on a a lower rate and they do a volume practice. They do a lot of cases. Worker's comp rates are very low, it's very inexpensive. And so they're doing a cost benefit analysis. And when you're looking at a worker's comp case, typically it's the injury and the disability that goes with it. And there's a whole analysis and you have to compensate the person for the injury for as long as it's going to affect them in their work scenario. And so insurance companies, because insurance companies are evil, they're necessary evil, but they're evil.

Speaker4: [00:29:04] Warm guy is.

Speaker2: [00:29:05] Evil. They are. They are. Listen, listen, listen. You don't get the tallest building in every single city by paying out claims. You get the tallest building in every single city by accepting premiums and denying claims. Okay. That is how you get the tallest building in the city. You accept premiums and deny claims.

Speaker3: [00:29:31] That's the wrong.

Speaker2: [00:29:32] Game. I know I'm not wrong and I know I'm right about this. I'm wrong about a lot of things. But this I know. So the law and economics theory in an individual case, if you're totally rational and have perfect information, you will you will every case will settle, basically, is that the general theory of law and economics? And it's been it was best articulated by Judge Posner in the seventh Circuit out of Chicago. So Judge Richard Posner is a big law and economics proponent and basically says with perfectly rational actors with perfect information, will resolve the case every single time without necessity of going to court. Because if you have perfect information, you know exactly what your probability of success is and what the cost is of getting there versus the cost of paying a claim. And so when you when someone gets sued, they're going to have to think about, well, what's it going to cost for me to hire an attorney and defend the case versus just pay out the claim, Which is why plaintiff's employment law attorneys are the fastest growing business in the state of California, because every single time on an individual basis, it's going to be cheaper to pay a claim than to hire an attorney and defend yourself. Plus, you have the uncertainty. You don't know what's going to happen in a trial. So in this case, back to your question, Tony. In this case, the insurance company decided it's cheaper for us to hire lawyers to appeal this case than it is to pay for this guy's broken arm. And insurance companies are very rational and they they.

Speaker4: [00:31:01] Are believe.

Speaker2: [00:31:02] That they are very rational and they are very good at doing actuarial tables of costs and figuring out what's the likely exposure of something. And so they figured it's probably cheaper to appeal and deny this guy benefits if we can, as opposed to pay for his broken arm.

Speaker4: [00:31:17] That's crazy. It's a.

Speaker2: [00:31:18] Shame. Well, that's not how insurance companies think.

Speaker3: [00:31:21] Church. I am ashamed. Oh, my.

Speaker2: [00:31:23] God. It's a church. Yeah, I believe the Hill Street Church of Christ. I don't. I believe the Christ. Didn't say love your neighbor, except when he falls off a ladder in your church. In those cases, fuck you. That's not. That's not the Prince of Peace. That's not the point.

Speaker4: [00:31:37] No, I think that's in the Bible somewhere.

Speaker2: [00:31:40] Yeah. The end of the story is that, in fact, the underlying court's decision was affirmed. The award of worker's compensation damages was upheld, and Sam Hogan got his money.

Speaker4: [00:31:56] Good.

Speaker3: [00:31:57] Good. Plus, a little something for painting stuff. So how much did he. I mean, jeez, it couldn't have been right.

Speaker2: [00:32:04] Just say how much money here in my very hefty law school casebook, these are heavily edited. We don't care about how much money. All right. We have a little law school hypothetical. Suppose that Paul owns an apartment building and Ann is hired to manage. Manage it? If Paul tells Ann to hire a company to cut the grass and. And does it. Does Paul have to pay the contract?

Speaker3: [00:32:28] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:32:30] He's in charge.

Speaker2: [00:32:31] Yeah. That's so that's, that's, that's actual or implied authority. Right. They told they told her get someone to cut the grass. That's what ended. So that was her actual authority.

Speaker4: [00:32:42] No. I feel like my apartment, my management told the people to like hey have someone blow the grass or whatever the leaves at a time. That's going to be so annoying.

Speaker3: [00:32:57] I think.

Speaker4: [00:32:58] Like every person in the apartment building, because that's.

Speaker3: [00:33:01] I mean.

Speaker2: [00:33:02] Yeah, it's.

Speaker3: [00:33:03] Going time.

Speaker2: [00:33:04] 7 a.m. on Saturday, right?

Speaker4: [00:33:06] Yeah, Yeah. So annoying. And I'm just that's why I feel like maybe that was cheaper.

Speaker3: [00:33:11] I don't know. But that's my point.

Speaker2: [00:33:13] I yeah, absolutely. The, the 7 a.m. on Saturday that's when the blowers start Right.

Speaker4: [00:33:21] My gym is outside and they, they always blow the leaves at 7 a.m. like every day. Which is exactly when our class starts.

Speaker3: [00:33:32] Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:33:33] The poor coaches are like how high do you make.

Speaker2: [00:33:39] All right, quiz question number two. All right, Paul, Paul and Ann, remember, Paul's the apartment owner and the manager and has not been asked to hire a janitorial company. She goes and she hires janitorial company to clean the apartment. Common areas, not the individual apartments. Just the common areas. Is Paul responsible to pay the contract for the janitorial company?

Speaker4: [00:34:05] Wait. So she's still hired to. What was she hired to do?

Speaker2: [00:34:09] She's the manager. He hasn't told her to hire. He didn't tell her to hire a janitor, but she went ahead and did it anyway.

Speaker3: [00:34:17] Is responsible.

Speaker4: [00:34:19] I agree.

Speaker2: [00:34:20] Yes.

Speaker4: [00:34:22] Because, like, plumbing is important, like. Right. Like everybody has to have.

Speaker2: [00:34:29] Well, and this is again, this is from the perspective of the janitorial company. So that's a parent authority. She's the manager. She's got. It's within her scope of duty. So clearly, there's an apparent authority to hire a janitorial company. And if Paul says, well, I didn't tell her she could hire she could hire you, she's the manager. She signed the contract, she's there. He's going to be bound by that contract. And it's also implied as part of her role as an apartment manager, that cleaning the common area is something that she'd be responsible to ensure occurs. So. So under both of those theories, I would say she would that Paul would be responsible to pay for that contract.

Speaker3: [00:35:06] Now, just curiously, I mean, I know that these are hypotheticals, but it's unlikely that she would do that without saying, hey, I'm going to hire a janitor.

Speaker2: [00:35:16] Well, yeah, most likely she would have some kind of a contract that would define what the scope of her authority is. So, you know, so what would happen? So what could happen in a three in a three part kind of relationship like that is if, let's say Paul gave gave her a contract. And in her contract, he says you're only allowed to spend $100 a month on janitorial. Right. And she goes out and she hires a janitor company for $150 a month. So she the janitor is going to say, here's my bill for $100. Paul is going to say, I only authorized $100 a month and the janitorial company is going to say. Tough opportunities, right? We were hired. We quoted the bid. Your agent signed the contract. You need to pay $100. So the problem then is become is between Paul and Ann. Right? So she exceeded the scope of her authority. But it's not fair to the third party who relied on the apparent implied authority of the manager to not pay pay her contract. But Paul might fire and or make a claim out of the contract that she wasn't allowed to do that. And so that would be so that's how the burdens and the benefits are kind of laid out.

Speaker3: [00:36:28] Okay. Okay. The use of these words applied and implied in all of them started to get a little salary up here, but.

Speaker2: [00:36:38] Yeah well well let's let's, let's, let's un salad the salad and let's. So what did you want to. So the.

Speaker3: [00:36:46] No, no I'll, I'll catch on but you know it's actually a little practice with these concepts.

Speaker2: [00:36:52] Well sometimes I go really like I go fast and sometimes I over explain and then sometimes I don't explain enough. So. So let me So just coming back. So the basic rule of this case, the basic thing that you that it's the case is the reason it's in this law law school textbook, a business law textbook is because you're talking about the concept of a principle in an agent relationship. So the principle being the person who is having someone something done for them. They're the one in charge. They're the one that's ultimately responsible and the agent who acts on behalf of the principle. Okay. And this case this case really is designed to demonstrate two versions of agency. There are other versions of agency law. There are other ways that someone can be an agent of a principal. And there are other rules that can apply based upon the relationship of the principal and the agent. But this this case is designed to show you how implied or actual authority works. So in this case, we have Bill, the the guy who's hired to paint the church. Is the agent of the church. Under a theory of implied or actual authority. Because his job is to paint the church he needs, he's got the authority, the ability to do whatever it is that's necessary to achieve the purpose of what he's been. They use the word delegate, what's been delegated to him. So it's been delegated. So the church obviously has an interest in having I think the words of the case are maintaining a safe and attractive place of worship, clearly is part of a church's function and one for which it would designate an agent to ensure the building is properly painted and maintained.

Speaker4: [00:38:48] Yeah. You want pretty wedding pictures, don't you?

Speaker2: [00:38:51] Absolutely.

Speaker4: [00:38:53] You don't want your wedding to be like with.

Speaker2: [00:38:57] All right. You can't charge 25 grand to have a wedding in your church if the saints do. You just can't.

Speaker3: [00:39:06] I don't. Even if I'm not getting married, I don't want to pray and like.

Speaker4: [00:39:13] So it's a very like there's nothing to debate on this case because it's just obvious like obviously the church is. Should be held responsible.

Speaker3: [00:39:27] Yea yea.

Speaker2: [00:39:28] Yea. I think the real question that's interesting is why did they appeal it?

Speaker3: [00:39:32] Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:39:33] Like the church appealed or the insurance company appealed it.

Speaker2: [00:39:36] I actually think that question that I forgot who asked us early on is whether Sam was a member of the church. I kind of think that that's part of it is like, like this dude dropped out of church and he stopped coming and he comes and paints for a half a frickin hour. And then we're going to pay for his broken arm because his brother was like, Yeah, Hey, come on, bro. Help me paint the church.

Speaker4: [00:39:55] It's not his fault. He felt like.

Speaker2: [00:39:58] I mean, do it on purpose. I don't know. We don't know if Sam if Sam Hogan was a lush.

Speaker3: [00:40:04] But I mean, I guess I mean, just because he's not attending, it's not like, you know, he didn't you know, I mean, we don't know, I guess, the circumstances that he left, but I'm guessing he didn't, like, go to worship Satan. No.

Speaker4: [00:40:20] Never.

Speaker3: [00:40:20] No.

Speaker2: [00:40:20] That requires you to get up early in the morning. You got to start early.

Speaker4: [00:40:24] Wait, I thought Satan happens at night.

Speaker2: [00:40:27] I know you sleep during the day. You got to get up early, like two in the morning. Oh, I see. You paint your anagrams, and it's just. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. I mean, you've got to be committed. You got to be committed. Can't commit to. No, Lucifer, don't. Lucifer, don't tolerate no lightweights.

Speaker3: [00:40:48] I bet you they're still alive. It would be super cool if we were able to interview them. Oh, yeah.

Speaker4: [00:40:54] We should have got them on the phone right now.

Speaker2: [00:40:57] Get. Get it, Get them.

Speaker4: [00:40:59] Just call every bill. Hogan.

Speaker2: [00:41:02] Yeah. Or Sam.

Speaker4: [00:41:03] Sam.

Speaker2: [00:41:04] Sam had a little trouble picking up the phone, though. What, with that arm?

Speaker3: [00:41:09] Oh.

Speaker4: [00:41:11] I was going to say too soon, but it's been years, so I think it's fine.

Speaker3: [00:41:16] But usually the cases are like, you know.

Speaker2: [00:41:19] Usually from the thirties.

Speaker3: [00:41:21] Yeah. These guys, I bet you they're still driving. Yeah.

Speaker2: [00:41:25] Yeah. So, yeah, interesting. There's nothing in here about suing the latter company because the latter broke, by the way.

Speaker3: [00:41:32] Yeah. Wow. Very good.

Speaker4: [00:41:35] But how old was the latter? Again, if the church supplied the ladder, it's the church's.

Speaker2: [00:41:41] Fault. Yeah, well, it doesn't say in the case whether Bill Hogan had gone down to Dunn's hardware store and bought a new ladder or whether it was the one they had. You know, just. Just kind of like the wooden ladder they had behind the place. Just kind of like. Like molding away.

Speaker4: [00:41:55] Yeah. Like in the sun, like just.

Speaker3: [00:41:58] Just.

Speaker2: [00:42:01] Complete garbage ladder. And then they leaned it on a wire. All right, you guys want to do a little improv?

Speaker3: [00:42:06] Wait, improv. Right.

Speaker2: [00:42:09] I literally forgot this event. Law and improv.

Speaker4: [00:42:15] I would love this job, but just know that if I get hired, I'm going to need an assistant.

Speaker3: [00:42:24] Okay, No problem.

Speaker4: [00:42:27] We Yeah, we totally back you up on that. I mean. Sure. Just make sure it's a capable person. You know someone you can trust. Yeah. But we're here for you. Sure. I mean, because, like, wedding planning is, like, so difficult, you know? And I just need someone to help run around. My sister's really great. If I can just get my sister. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's my sister that's getting married, so I feel like. If I can speak for my sister. You could speak for your sister, right? So, yeah, I'm cool with that. Yeah, I think everything will be fine. Totally fine. Bonding with you. So to you, I just want to let you know she has a little drinking problem. So does my sister.

Speaker3: [00:43:25] Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. She loves Long Island Iced Teas.

Speaker4: [00:43:30] What about your sister? Oh, yeah. She likes Ella Waters. Yeah. What's Ella, though? It's kind of like a long, dirty or Long Island iced tea.

Speaker3: [00:43:43] Very good. Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:43:45] Yeah. Interesting. Gosh. Maybe we should hang out sometime. Doo doo on the wedding day. Oh.

Speaker3: [00:43:52] Hello. Oh, hi. Hey, Jane. You are the most awesome wedding planner sister in the world.

Speaker4: [00:44:03] Oh, thank you.

Speaker3: [00:44:04] Thank you. Going right now, I'm at the smog cutter. I know it's only 2 p.m.. Oh, why don't you come down and have a little. The bartender, who is very cute, by the way.

Speaker4: [00:44:22] At 2 p.m.. How long have you been there?

Speaker3: [00:44:26] Oh, that doesn't matter. That does not matter.

Speaker4: [00:44:31] Oh, come on. I just tell you this job, remember, we're going to try to play low key on the alcoholism.

Speaker3: [00:44:38] Just come down here and meet me and you can taste these Long Island's, and we can see if they make for, like, the signature drink for the wedding.

Speaker4: [00:44:52] Oh, okay. Is it for the wedding? Yeah, if it's for the wedding.

Speaker3: [00:45:01] But I knew you would make.

Speaker4: [00:45:08] But of course, if it's anything for the wedding.

Speaker3: [00:45:12] You know, it's totally about the wedding. Oh, my God. You know, I just want you to know. I only took a sip. I didn't drink. I just had one sip. Just one sip. What's up? What's up? I was waiting for you guys. I can't wait till you play on my set. What?

Speaker4: [00:45:41] We were not planning yours. You're helping me with the wedding.

Speaker3: [00:45:46] Oh, that's right. Oh, my God. Well, that works because that way. That way, I don't have to be careful about my drinking. It's cool if I just. If I just have a sip before we go to work. Right. It's cool.

Speaker4: [00:46:04] Oh, my goodness. Fine. Fine. One sip won't hurt. If we're going to be used as, you know, tasting, you know, tasting our menus for our clients.

Speaker3: [00:46:17] It's real important. Drink up. Here we go. Cheers. I was my honey belly babe. There is a drunk woman ruining the set of my wedding right now. How did this happen? What did you do? Why did you hire her? This is the most important day of my life.

Speaker2: [00:46:40] I don't know. I mean, the I mean, they were like they said they could play in the wedding. And so I said, okay.

Speaker4: [00:46:49] That's your answer?

Speaker2: [00:46:51] Well, I mean, this is an important day. And I thought two heads are better than one.

Speaker4: [00:46:59] So what is wrong with you today? Are you high? What is it? You don't even sound like yourself.

Speaker2: [00:47:05] We're getting married today. She's really. I fell off a ladder and they broke.

Speaker4: [00:47:11] Her arm or something. I don't know. She's crazy out there. She's like, dancing around with the decorations. And I don't know what's going on.

Speaker3: [00:47:20] I don't know where my sister is. I thought that I'd left her in charge, but I don't know what to do. It's my wedding day. Excuse me. Hey, Are you the bride? Yes. Beautiful. I just. I pulled these flowers down off of the off of the tables. Just thinking they would look better in your hair. No. Why would you do that? They need to stay on the tables. Oh. Oh, okay. Well, you know what? Okay. Excuse me. I'm going to just grab a ladder and put the put. I don't think you should call it any ladders. I think you should just. You should just leave. I need to find my sister.

[00:48:03] I need to figure out what's going on with my wedding. Supposed to be the.

Speaker4: [00:48:08] Most amazing day of my life, and it's not right.

Speaker3: [00:48:15] I'm going to get my sister.

Speaker4: [00:48:19] Why?

Speaker3: [00:48:20] What's wrong? Jane, Is this your sister? This is. Hi. Hi, Sarah. James sister.

Speaker4: [00:48:33] I told you. I told you you could use your sister, but I didn't know she was going to show up drunk. I mean, just because my sister's an alcoholic, too. Does it mean that your sister should be an alcoholic and drunk at my sister's wedding?

Speaker3: [00:48:45] I.

Speaker4: [00:48:47] She's not drunk. She just had one sip. This is just one sip of it. Okay, well, my sister is in the other room crying her eyes out, mascara running down her face onto her beautiful wedding dress. Your sister is like pulling apart the decor.

Speaker2: [00:49:04] Excuse me, ladies. So, hi, I'm. I'm Brad. Billy. Brad, the groom. And so. So. Yes, So. So. By the way, excellent. Long Island Iced Teas. And so my. My fiancee is kind of upset.

Speaker3: [00:49:27] Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:49:28] Yes, obviously, Billy Brad, he's. She's very.

Speaker2: [00:49:31] Upset.

Speaker4: [00:49:33] Yeah. She's not yourself today.

Speaker2: [00:49:34] She's kind of upset. And I was just wondering if there's anything you could do.

Speaker4: [00:49:43] We can. Oh, you know what? We'll just. We'll just. We'll just have the cake cutting ceremony a little bit early. How about that, Doctor?

Speaker2: [00:49:54] Yeah, and so that's a good idea, because she really.

Speaker4: [00:49:58] Really got the get started even here yet. What are you guys talking about? I think it's cut the cake before the guests come.

Speaker3: [00:50:04] Well, you know.

Speaker2: [00:50:06] My fiance really likes cake. And. And so do I. I like cake. Cake is actually really, really good.

Speaker4: [00:50:17] And I'm just wondering if you guys should even get married at this point. Like, I. I'm kind of worried now for my sister. I'm worried that with my own judgment, I mean, I hired you, and now I'm basically ruining my sister's wedding.

Speaker2: [00:50:34] So I.

Speaker4: [00:50:35] Just purpose.

Speaker2: [00:50:36] I feel like you're being. Really? Yeah, I'm with her. I feel like you're being really super unsupportive and, you know, like, as though you're kind of trying to, like, insert yourself into the relationship. And these nice ladies are going to get her cake, which is something she likes. And you're trying to deny her something, and she's going to be my wife, which means that she's going to do what I think is best. And so if she wants to have cake and I think it's best, I think it's really probably a good idea if maybe you don't perhaps go. So get like chronically like get involved.

Speaker4: [00:51:17] Well, I mean, you know my sister, right? She's not going to do what you tell her to do.

Speaker2: [00:51:23] I mean.

Speaker4: [00:51:24] 1999 women don't do what they're told to.

Speaker3: [00:51:28] Do. I feel like you're trying to act as the agent for your sister. Oh, yeah. Getting day.

Speaker4: [00:51:36] I'm trying to help her. It's her wedding day. Why is everyone ganging up on me? I just want my sister to be happy on her wedding day.

Speaker2: [00:51:45] I mean, you are the cake blocker.

Speaker4: [00:51:48] And we.

Speaker3: [00:51:50] Don't like saying.

Speaker4: [00:51:55] Like, guys, we all want cake.

Speaker2: [00:51:57] We all want.

Speaker3: [00:51:58] Cake.

Speaker2: [00:51:59] What wants cake?

Speaker3: [00:52:00] Go ahead.

Speaker2: [00:52:01] Cut the cake. They want cake.

Speaker4: [00:52:03] Start eating it with no one here. And then let's bring in my sister and let's see how she feels about it. When you covered in cake on your wedding day before all the guests arrived. Is that? Do you think you want to do that? That's a good.

Speaker2: [00:52:17] Plan. I mean, I think it's bad luck if you see a bride on her wedding day. So why don't I leave you? I mean, I you know, I could take my piece of cake and then the three of you could have all the cake you want.

Speaker3: [00:52:29] And then what.

Speaker4: [00:52:30] Happens at the part of the ceremony when the cake cutting happens and you're supposed to sing and you stuff the cake in each other's faces and says, I'm not going to do that part, that's.

Speaker3: [00:52:41] Longer. Have you ever heard of just like turning the cake around?

Speaker4: [00:52:50] The plan was to put the cake in the middle of the dance floor when they cut it and they do whatever they want to do. So you're going to see all the sides.

Speaker3: [00:53:02] I tell you.

Speaker4: [00:53:04] Do you have love in your life? What kind of question is that?

Speaker3: [00:53:09] It's a good.

Speaker4: [00:53:11] Yeah. Do you have love in your. Of course I have love in my life. Of course I.

Speaker3: [00:53:18] Gets these questions from you.

Speaker4: [00:53:20] What I need to do is make sure that this wedding goes well for my sister so that she doesn't kill me. That's all I'm trying to do.

Speaker3: [00:53:29] Hey, what's up, ladies?

Speaker2: [00:53:31] I see my.

Speaker3: [00:53:31] Brother. What's up?

Speaker2: [00:53:33] Good to see you. What's up, Chad? Searching? Yeah. What's up, Chad? Brad? You guys know me. Chad. Brad, my brother.

Speaker3: [00:53:41] Billy.

Speaker2: [00:53:42] What's up? I'm ready to party down with this wedding. Let's get the wedding. And they can. Getting on. What is this?

Speaker4: [00:53:52] We didn't invite you to the wedding. Why are you here?

Speaker2: [00:53:54] I don't know. I got something in my email. Twitter feed.

Speaker3: [00:53:58] Inbox.

Speaker2: [00:53:59] Facebook?

Speaker3: [00:53:59] Yeah. Jen, what is. Did you. Did you alter the invitations? Dan, did you like, alter the invitations?

Speaker2: [00:54:15] I don't know if she altered anything, but I'll tell you what I saw on the Twitter, Facebook email link. It was a party and it was.

Speaker3: [00:54:23] Here.

Speaker2: [00:54:25] Right on this Newport Beach yacht where we're all hanging out.

Speaker4: [00:54:30] I said, I specifically told my sister I didn't want you here after what happened between us. Like, you're not supposed to be here. I know you're not supposed to be here.

Speaker2: [00:54:39] Are you guys really warm? I'm like, really warm. I feel like I want to totally take my shirt off. I am so sweaty.

Speaker3: [00:54:47] I like sweating, you guys. I am like, No. What happened between you guys? Chad? Brad Yeah, me too.

Speaker2: [00:54:55] You know, I am. You know what? I burn really easily. And I was just wondering, like, maybe you guys could, like, hit up my back so you don't get burned at this wedding.

Speaker4: [00:55:05] Yeah, but this is what happened between us. Do you notice he doesn't even acknowledge our existence or anything that we're saying? That's what happened between us. This is something happened between us.

Speaker2: [00:55:15] This is just dope cake. Oh, shit. Chocolate, raspberry, vanilla. Fuck me. This is fucking got us. I'm just going to be over here eating kak.

Speaker4: [00:55:26] You know it. It's cake month. Oh, okay. So celebrated.

Speaker2: [00:55:31] Oh, abso fucking lutely. I am. I am famished. I was just busy dead lifting before I came over here and I've been so fucking sore. Am I? Do my pecs look kind of pumped up because they feel really sore.

Speaker4: [00:55:46] I mean, first of all, Chad, if you were dead, lifting your pecs wouldn't be pumped up.

Speaker2: [00:55:52] Well, I dead lifted before I did curls and pushups and crunches, like every day. Hello. Don't you remember the P90X?

Speaker4: [00:56:01] Yeah, I remember P90X and nothing else. And you ignoring me, basically running them.

Speaker3: [00:56:08] Oh, my God. But it like such a good detective. You called him out on that?

Speaker2: [00:56:13] Oh, yeah. So anyway. Yeah. So what else? When is the party? Sorry. I feel like it's like it was like around 3:00 when. And it's right now. It's like 330. I don't know.

Speaker4: [00:56:25] It's actually at five five. And you shouldn't be here at all, let alone an hour and a half early.

Speaker2: [00:56:32] Oh, you're so right. You know what? I still have time to get waxed, so.

Speaker4: [00:56:38] You know, you should do that. Maybe. And just go LAX and then don't come back.

Speaker3: [00:56:46] You know what, Chuck Brown? I totally thought I was the most obnoxious person here, but yeah, go get waxed and seen.

Speaker2: [00:56:54] That brings us to the end of this week's legal voyage. And I want to thank you for joining me, your captain, on this earmark edition of Laying Down the Law. And I'd like to thank my crew, Kathy, Pia and Tony, for joining me on this journey into madness. And listener, I'd like to thank you for coming along with us. Wherever you are. You're also here while you're there via the magic of earmarks. Cpe I'd also like to thank the OG cello Performance CPA Blake Oliver for building earmarks CPE the mighty little app that makes learning fun and free. Mostly free. But now you can subscribe. Isn't that right? Blake That's right. Billy And speaking of mighty, thank you to the mighty Q Quentin Fichtner for the mighty cover Art.

Speaker3: [00:57:42] Thank you for the opportunity, Billy and the listeners want some cool art of your own. You can find me my pro dot com.

Speaker2: [00:57:50] Thank you to David Felton for creating the awesome all original music. And a special thank you to Jeff at Fichtner Productions. Hey, that's me. Yes, Jeff, that is you. Thank you, Jeff, for making a little boy's radio show. Dreams into a middle aged man's podcast Reality. So until next time. Wait. What's this?

Speaker1: [00:58:18] You forgot.

Speaker2: [00:58:18] Something. What's that? I forgot something. You say?

Speaker1: [00:58:21] Yeah. You got to do the thing. You know the thing.

Speaker2: [00:58:24] All right.

Speaker3: [00:58:26] If you.

Speaker2: [00:58:26] Want even more of that delicious little nut butter drenched in comedy chocolate, find the full version of this.

Speaker3: [00:58:34] And every amazing episode of laying down.

Speaker2: [00:58:37] The law at Procom or wherever in the metaverse, you get your podcasts.

Speaker1: [00:58:42] That fit Procom find your productions is not responsible for the preceding comments related to nut butter. If you or someone you know experiences nausea, third eye blindness, sudden onset euphoria, or have an unrelenting craving for ham, seek help immediately. Laying down the law is protected by the Intergalactic Treaty of Euripides. Start 82182190. If you'd like a transcript of the show, please send a self-addressed stamped envelope to Colonel Steve Austin Kerr of the Foundation for Law and Government. 221a Baker Street, Beverly Hills 90210. Any likeness to real places, persons or events is absolutely happenstance. We'd never intentionally crib real life happenings to make a podcast. We're not true crime after all. It's more likely a situation similar to the chimpanzees, typewriters and Shakespeare. Right? That's what attorney Steve says anyway. And if you know what's good for you, listen to Attorney Steve. I don't argue with Attorney Steve mostly because he ain't right in the head and quite honestly frightens me a little bit. The last time we went to court, the judge started asking him all kinds of weird questions, like, where did you study law and why hasn't the state bar of California ever heard of you? Then attorney Steve started doing this weird, deep breathing meditation kind of thing and muttering under his breath about a monster drug fight and how the judge ain't got nothing on a £15,000, 2000 horsepower fire breathing death, age on wheels, and then the L.A. Heat running with his taser. And honestly, that's the truth. Steve told me it was only traffic, for God's sake.