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In today's episode we walk through all of the different stages of a mentor relationship as it progresses and the kid matures. All of these stages will be experienced in different ways, but we believe they provide a great framework for mentors to understand the challenges they are facing in the relationship within the context of progressing seasons while they watch their mentee grow into adulthood.
Show Notes
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WELCOME
You Can Mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others.
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SHOW NOTES
The Five Seasons of Mentoring Relationships
- THE HONEYMOON STAGE
- THE WALL STAGE
- THE FIGHT OR FLIGHT STAGE
- THE GENUINE RELATIONSHIP STAGE
- THE LIFE-LONG RELATIONSHIP STAGE
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others you can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. I'm here with a special guest, Zach Garza. Whoop whoop. You're really not a special guest. You're just a standing Woah.
Speaker 2:Host. I I meant more of, like, you're you're, like, around and Woah. So I'm just around?
Speaker 3:1st, I'm not special. Now I'm just around. I'm your boss.
Speaker 2:Oh, we have the board chairman of You Can Mentor podcast, Zachary Garza, with us.
Speaker 3:Don't forget. I'm the founder. I'm the one who came up with this.
Speaker 2:I'm That's great. You wanna start over?
Speaker 3:No. That's great.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Steven, and I'm here with the founder and board chairman, Zachary Garza. And I'm sitting
Speaker 3:here with the thief. That's who I'm sitting here with, the guy who
Speaker 2:stole it. Steal my podcast.
Speaker 3:This is
Speaker 2:Oh. Tension.
Speaker 3:Today, we're talking about seasons of mentoring, different stages, what to expect, all of that good stuff, people change. Relationships change. Kids change. We all mature. Well, some of us mature.
Speaker 3:We turn into adults or we go from junior high into high school, into college, into adulthood, then we get married maybe, perhaps we have kids, get a job. There's just you're constantly changing just like the seasons. You know, you've got fall and winter and summer and spring, so much change. Change, change, change.
Speaker 2:Is that a song?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a song.
Speaker 2:I
Speaker 3:think it's a song. But today we're talking about seasons of mentoring. So, Steven, tell us what's going on, man. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm I'm so good. I'm I'm trying to determine what season our relationship is in. Are we in I think we're in spring, maybe.
Speaker 3:Yeah. There's maybe a little bit of spring in our relationship. There's also a little bit of summer, maybe maybe some heat
Speaker 2:I think the sun is shining
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:On us.
Speaker 3:Alright. So we're gonna compare mentoring to a romantic relationship.
Speaker 2:That's kinda weird.
Speaker 3:So if you guys are anything like me, the first time you were in a romantic relationship, you know, you put your best foot forward. Can remember whenever I picked up my wife, Sarah, for our first date, man, I was just, like, dressed to a tee, freshly shaven, had had on my polo shirt, tucked in, probably sprayed on some cool water cologne, you know, took her to the best restaurant, opened up the door, just pulled out all the stops.
Speaker 2:Come on, man.
Speaker 3:Brought her some flowers. I mean, I was rolling, man, and that's why we got married because of the cool water cologne. And that was the very beginning of our of our dating relationship. But if anyone has been in a long term romantic relationship, you know that doesn't last. After a month or so, 2 months, things start getting real.
Speaker 3:You start to speak up about the things that you didn't start to speak up on at the very first of your relationship. That's real. Maybe you feel comfortable. Maybe you start saying things, you know, that you wouldn't have said at the beginning. Maybe a little sarcasm here or there.
Speaker 3:Maybe you don't shower for a day or a week, and the person you're dating starts to take notice. You know, things things aren't the same. Steven, do you have any experience with that?
Speaker 2:Did you stop opening up the door for Sarah? How long
Speaker 3:did it take? Like, 3 weeks, unfortunately. No. I think I did pretty good until we got married, and then I just I I don't think I've showered since we got married. It's been years.
Speaker 2:I totally yeah. I I feel like I was so intentional.
Speaker 3:Oh, man.
Speaker 2:For sure. Katie and I, when we were dating, I planted a tree, and I would take an ice chest of water to go water this tree because I was I was so concerned that this tree was a picture of my relationship with her that if if I put forward all this effort, it would flourish. Yes. Yeah. I'm not doing stuff like that now.
Speaker 3:And now I can't even take my bowl off the sink after I eat cereal. I mean, let's be honest. I can't even make my bed Terrible.
Speaker 2:Do you still fart in front of do you fart in front of Sarah, or are you still afraid of doing that? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, are you open? I don't wanna talk about that. Okay. Of course. I'm we're married.
Speaker 3:Alright. So after 6 months, you you start to really figure out who that person is. Right? Anyone can pretend for a a couple days, a few weeks, but after months years pass by, like, true character shows up. There's no secrets.
Speaker 3:Things have been exposed, the good, the bad. You know who you're in a relationship with. In about that time, you have a decision to make. Should I stay or should I go? You know pretty much everything there is to know about this person, and it's up to you.
Speaker 3:Is this something that I wanna continue to invest in or do I wanna jump ship? For most people, if you decide to stick with it, maybe you get engaged, maybe you get married, if you decide to jump ship, you gotta have the awkward DTR. Hey. It's just not working for me. It's it's me.
Speaker 3:It's not you. I promise. Right? But if you do decide to stay, then you figure out this new normal. Right?
Speaker 3:Like, things aren't as they once were. But you begin to accept that person for who they are, the good and the bad, and you learn how to love unconditionally. And that's so important if you're gonna have a healthy long term relationship is to love this person, to be there, to accept them through the good and the bad. And then after years years have passed, there's this new kind of relationship. Right?
Speaker 3:The love that I had for Sarah is different now than it was when we first started dating. It's different now than whenever we first got married. We are starting to enter into the season where it's just a different kind of love. Like, it is that long, like, we've been through some fires, We've been through some fights. Like, we have struggled together.
Speaker 3:We have laughed together. We have cried together, and it has produced this love that I can hardly even express in words. It's unlike anything I've ever experienced. And it might be that way with your best friend. Right?
Speaker 3:The person who you've known for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. It's just a different kind of love. It's a love that can withstand the waves of the storm. Right? And it's not not too different from what you can expect in a mentoring relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's really good. I wonder the difference between the first time you meet Sarah and now is at the beginning, you're thinking about what image am I putting forward to make her like me. Whereas now in marriage, all you're thinking about is her and caring for her and loving her, and you're not worried about, like, primarily what she thinks about you Yeah. Because you already know what she thinks about you.
Speaker 2:She's already shown you what she thinks about you with the good, bad, and ugly, and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And I think that's a perfect picture of a mentor relationship is that eventually the mentor relationship moves from you not thinking entirely about yourself and how well you're doing, but more of you're invested in this kid. Yeah. And you care for him, and he's not, like, nitpicking how good of a mentor you are. He's like, I just like being around you. And I I don't know.
Speaker 2:I just think that's really cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah. For sure. There's a couple of things to keep in mind, right, whenever we're talking about seasons of mentoring. The first thing is every relationship is different. Right?
Speaker 3:Every dating relationship, every mentoring relationship, every person is different. So for some people, they might experience a season that we'll talk about for a long time. For some people, they might experience it for a short time. For some people, they might not ever experience it, and that's okay. What we're trying to do today is we're we're just trying to tell you guys what we have found different seasons to be, and some people might have experienced all of them.
Speaker 3:Some people only 2 or 3. Some people only 1. Also, every timeline is different. Right? I know for me, I've been in a couple of these seasons for 18 months, for 2 years, whereas the guy who I started mentoring with was only in that season for 2 weeks.
Speaker 3:Right? And so there's no comparison. It's just every kid, every mentor, every mentoring relationship is different, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:I think that's good to say because it's it's different than just fall, spring, summer, winter. Like Yeah. It it's not happening on a calendar.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Right. So it's kind of a lot like the seasons in Texas. Right? Like, you never really know what you're gonna get.
Speaker 3:Like, it can be December in, like, 85 1 year, and the next year, it's freezing. So, that's awesome. We are sticking to this season's analogy, aren't we? We're just
Speaker 2:No. Texas is jacked up. It's perfect. It's a perfect analogy. Texas is.
Speaker 3:But I love Texas. I love
Speaker 2:Texas. I do love Texas. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Alright. First stage, here we go. The first stage is
Speaker 2:The honeymoon stage.
Speaker 3:Alright. The honeymoon stage. You if you're married, you guys have experienced a honeymoon. New is fun. All is good.
Speaker 3:Right? The the mentee loves his mentor. The mentor puts on his best efforts to impress and to show his his mentee that he's cool, that he's awesome. Right? The mentor pulls out all of the stops, takes him to the coolest places, you know, spends a bunch of money on them.
Speaker 3:Life is good. This mentoring thing is easy. Man, I can't believe that these people said that this was hard. Here I am taking my kid to Chuck E. Cheese in the Texas Rangers game, and he loves me.
Speaker 3:Right? Well, how long is that gonna last? That's the honeymoon stage. The heart is good. The intentions are good, but the main question that you gotta ask yourself is this, how long can we keep this up?
Speaker 3:Here's a story about the honeymoon stage. There was this mentor in our program, and he had this kid that he was spending time with and this kid's name was O. O just like the letter. And the mentor loved spending time with O. Right?
Speaker 3:He would pick him up in his fancy car and they would drive all around town and the mentor had a great heart, and his heart was to really show this kid that he was worth time and attention and things like that. And what the mentor and O started to do together was at the end of every time that they hung out, the mentor would take O to Walmart, and he would give them $5, and he would say, O, whatever you want to spend on this $5 is yours, buddy. Go ahead and go. And he did this week after week after week. Well, one day the mentor was kind of in a hurry, he had to get home to be with his family, and he was spending time with O.
Speaker 3:Right? And as he was on his way to drop O off at his apartment complex, O turned and says, hey, I thought that we were supposed to go to Walmart. Right? And the mentor is like, oh, yeah, sorry about that, but I can't today because I have to get home. Well, Oh flipped out on him, and he got so angry.
Speaker 3:He started cussing him out, and that really changed their relationship because while the mentor's heart was good, while he wanted to to kinda celebrate O and take him to Walmart and get him a gift, that became the norm for O, and he became to expect that. And so, the truth of the matter is the mentoring relationship, there was a standard that was set and the standard was every time that I hang out with my mentor, I get $5 and I get to go to Walmart. But is it truly realistic for that to happen for the entire relationship? Right? So I think that there's something that we as mentors can, can learn from that story.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Yeah. I think a primary lie, the main lie that comes in this honeymoon stage is for a mentor, it's I can fix him. I'm the solution to every problem. And I think a lot of mentors love to be in that spot, but that we don't recognize how unhealthy that that mindset can become because that's not true.
Speaker 2:Like, we aren't the solution. And for the mentee, the lie that they believe is that the mentor can solve all their problems and and is the solution to all the relational deficit that they've had in life, which that's not true. Like, the mentor is a part of that, but is not the solution for all of their issues. And I think both of them in the honeymoon stage can run into that lie that is very disruptive for the beginning of the relationship.
Speaker 3:I also think one lie that both the mentee and the mentor can fall into is I have to be a certain way in order for the other one to accept me. For the mentor, it's I have to take him to the coolest restaurants. I have to provide this experience. I have to be someone other than who I am in order for him to like me. And for the mentee, maybe it's the same thing.
Speaker 3:Right? And so I just think that in the honeymoon stage, in the beginning of a mentoring relationship, the enemy can really plant these lies that if not dealt with, they can really mess up the relationship going forward. And so it's super important, as a mentor to identify this potential pitfall and to ask yourself the question, is this really who I am? What is so bad about being myself?
Speaker 2:That's really good.
Speaker 3:And also just, am I trying to impress him? Am I trying to be someone other than who I am? The thing that the Lord wants you to know as a mentor is that you are enough and that the Lord didn't mess up whenever he made you and that you do have something to offer, even if the world will say that you don't. Right? I know for most mentors that I talk to, the main lie that they believe is this kid won't like me.
Speaker 3:I'm not cool enough. I don't have anything in common with him, and I just don't think that that's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think I think in this stage, expectations can go awry. I've had mentors who they meet their their mentee in that 1st week. They're like, well, I'm gonna see you every day, and we're gonna hang out, and I'm gonna figure out everything about your life, and I just wanna get to know you. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then the next week comes, and they don't show up. And the mentee is like, where is this guy? I thought he was coming every day. And getting to that place where you're willing to play the long game and not allow the honeymoon stage to just provoke you to do all this unnatural stuff that you can't maintain for longer than a week.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 2:So I yeah. I think that's huge. So what's the what does this stage lean into? What comes after the honeymoon stage?
Speaker 3:Well, unfortunately, this is this next stage is one of the harder stages. Right? And this is what we like to call the wall stage. And it's the whole, why isn't my kid talking to me? Why isn't he opening up?
Speaker 3:When did he move? How come I didn't know it? And how come his cell phone doesn't work? He told me he'd show up, but where is he? He didn't call me.
Speaker 3:He didn't text me. He didn't show up on me. What's really going on here? Does he even like me? This is really, really difficult, and it doesn't seem to be working.
Speaker 3:That is the wall stage. And so kind of what happens here is a couple things. For some mentees, especially those who have not truly experienced a trusting intimate relationship, they get kind of freaked out. And internally, they say, I'm starting to trust this guy. I'm starting to let him in.
Speaker 3:I've never done that before. Or the last time I did that, I got hurt. So I'm gonna put a guard up. That's one thing that can happen. The second thing is I've been burned so many times.
Speaker 3:This guy seems like he's for real, but I'm gonna make it difficult on him on purpose to see if he really is for real. So it's almost like he's testing you, or she is saying, I'm gonna make this as hard as I possibly can to see if you'll stick around. And so, it's a protection mechanism. Right? And so this is the wall stage.
Speaker 3:This is where it gets real. The facades are down. It's been enough time to where, like, you are actually beginning to be yourself and they are actually beginning to be their true self, and you're finding out who each person truly is. Also in the wall stage is where you begin to understand or learn for the first time this kid's story. You begin to to understand perhaps the unstable life that they are living, just the fact that they might move often, the fact that their cell phone number changes or they change schools.
Speaker 3:You begin to get a understanding of what it looks like to not have food security. Right? You begin to understand about the different adults in this kid's life, the ones who stick around, but also the ones who come and go. You understand and begin to learn about their hurts, about perhaps the trauma that they've experienced or, their past story. You get to actually sit down and listen to what experience has made this kid who they are today.
Speaker 3:And then there's trust issues. The kid, perhaps he shuts down or she doesn't open up. And it really does feel like this kid doesn't even like you, like they don't even wanna be around you. And this happens all the time. A mentor who is, new in their relationship with their kid, they'll call us and they'll say, man, it feels like the kid doesn't like me.
Speaker 3:This isn't working. I think I might need a new kid, or you might wanna give this kid a new mentor. And he is so discouraged. And then the very next day, I will talk to the kid, and the kid has the exact opposite reaction. He's saying how much he loves spending time with his mentor and how he's so excited to meet him and to spend time with him, and he just loves him.
Speaker 3:And this is where the enemy can lie to us once again. And the main lie in the wall stage is this, it's not working. You don't have what it takes. You aren't equipped to deal with this kid. He doesn't like spending time with you.
Speaker 3:She's gonna leave. This is a waste of time. That is the main lie in The Wall Stage. I've experienced the wall stage with a bunch of different kids. With this one kid who I mentored in particular, the wall stage lasted about 2 years, and I look back and that's really discouraging.
Speaker 3:But what the Lord was doing during that time was he wasn't just changing the heart of the kid that I was mentoring, but he was changing my heart as well. He was teaching me how to persevere and teaching me how to keep on tossing seeds even though I'm not seeing any fruit. You never know what the Lord's doing in the heart of a kid, and it's so hard to judge success based on what you see in a relationship with a kid from a hard place. The main thing that a mentor needs during this time is to trust in the Lord and to hope in him and say, god, it doesn't look like this is working. It doesn't look like there's fruit, but I trust that as long as I continue to invest, as long as I continue to love, you're gonna do work on this kid's heart in your perfect timing.
Speaker 2:When I think about Zee and my mentor relationship with him when we first started, I would go to all his football games. And whether he won the game or lost the game, I would always sit at the side and wait till the the team came out, and I would always try to encourage him or just have a connect with him. Partially just because I wanted him to know that I came to the game, and for the most part, if I didn't make myself known, he probably wouldn't know that I was there. But without fail, the first two seasons of watching him play, I could not even get him to look at me. And I look back at that, and I wonder if I could have been more forward, like to break through that wall, or or if there was anything I could have done about it.
Speaker 2:And so I don't know what you would say, Zach, about what is a mentor's responsibility to break the wall, like, or or to just wait and trust the Lord that the wall's gonna come down eventually. And I know it's probably a judgment, but part of me thinks that I could have been more powerful in with the level of trust that I think I had built with him. I could have been like, hey, Zomari, I'm here for you, bro. I see you. Do you do you think that's a place where mentors should feel more power to, like, my job is to break the wall?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I don't, Steven. And I I think and as we're starting to process this, I'm even wondering if we should call it the wall stage. Right? Because the person who has built the wall is the kid.
Speaker 3:And I'm starting to think the only one who can take down the wall is the kid. And so he's gonna let you in whenever he is ready, whenever she's ready. Right? And for some kids, that that takes 3 weeks, that takes 6 weeks. Kind of what we found is they the sooner you get involved into a kid's life, the quicker the wall comes down.
Speaker 3:And so the wall for a kid who's 10 is not gonna be as high as a wall from a kid who's 16. But I I really do believe that it's our job as a mentor to knock. Right? And we're just continuously knocking, and we're asking. Every time we show up, every time we ask a question, every time we text, we're asking them to to take the wall down.
Speaker 3:And I believe that the height of this kid's wall is directly influenced by their past. The higher the wall means the higher hurts, the higher experiences of traumatic situations they've had. And so I think every time you show up, 1 brick's coming off. 1 brick's coming off. 1 brick's coming off.
Speaker 3:I don't believe it's our job as a mentor to break down that wall, but instead, it's just our job to ask them. And every time that we show up, we ask, hey, can you take this wall down? Hey, can you take this wall down? Hey, can you take this wall down? I think that's our job, and it kinda gives them power.
Speaker 3:It kinda gives them the right to let you into their life. Because all of these seasons, right, the wall stage is the kid is saying, I I'm freaked out here. Like, I don't know whether I can trust you or not. I'm scared. I'm frightened.
Speaker 3:Now they they can't say that with their words, but their actions are saying that. I don't know if you're really gonna stick around if you know that this is my past, and this is my family, and I move every 6 months, and I don't have food, and maybe I cuss or have sex or smoke weed. Like, are you still gonna stick around? And we as mentors, I know for me, I wanna give them the chance to take the wall down in their own timing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's really good.
Speaker 3:And then when when that wall comes down, well, here comes our next stage. Right? And this is called the fight or flight stage. And this is where the mentor decides if he's really up for this. He knows their story.
Speaker 3:He knows the good. He knows the bad. He knows where they've come from. He knows their hurts. He's seeing the kid just as he is, and the kid's also seeing the mentor for who he is.
Speaker 3:The kid's seeing how the mentor responds to difficult situations. He's seeing if the mentor is consistent, if he's a person of their word, if he really loves them regardless of their actions. Perhaps the mentor is frustrated that mentoring isn't going how he thought it would. But when this happens, there's a choice that has to be made, and the choice is this, am I gonna stick around and love this kid no matter what? Am I gonna continue to invest into them, or am I going to leave?
Speaker 3:And it's hard. Right? Because perhaps the mentors experiencing this, just the thoughts that it's not working, the thoughts that it's not how he thought it was going to be. The lies come. Right?
Speaker 3:And the lie is Satan saying, this kid's a lost cause. No matter what you do, he's still gonna turn out bad. He's a bad kid. He'll never change. He doesn't even like you.
Speaker 3:If he did like you and then he would do this, this, this, and this. Right? But this is the time whenever the mentor has to make the choice to disregard those lies and to say, no, no, no, I I'm gonna fight for this relationship. I am gonna be one of the only adults in this kid's life who sticks around no matter what. I am going to love them regardless, unconditionally.
Speaker 3:And this is where the mentor has to choose. He has to choose whether or not he's gonna sacrifice for this kid. He has to choose whether or not he's gonna invest even though this kid is more hurt than I ever thought that he would be. He's gonna continue to show up even when the kid who he's mentoring is not being, quote, unquote, successful. He's not making straight a's.
Speaker 3:He's he's not on the honor roll. It doesn't look like he's going to go to college. He's sticking around even though it's not easy, and he's sticking around even though it's a lot harder than he thought it would ever be. The main lie here that Satan is saying is this is a waste of time. It's not working, and it's never going to work.
Speaker 3:This kid will never change. He will never be a successful adult, and that's not true. Proverbs 2416 says, the godly may trip 7 times, but they will get up again. But one disaster is enough to overthrow the wicked. And that I think is a great depiction of mentoring.
Speaker 3:In mentoring, in your relationship with your kid, you guys are gonna fall down. You guys are gonna have fights. Things aren't gonna go the way that you thought that they were going to go. You're gonna experience things that you have no idea how to deal with. Right?
Speaker 3:But this right here is the most crucial point in your relationship. Do I fight? Do I continue and trust that God will move through our relationship? Or do I flight? Do I quit?
Speaker 3:Do I give up on this kid and think that this relationship is hopeless?
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:So that right there is, in my opinion, one of the most crucial points in a mentoring relationship. I also believe, though, that just like a rainbow at the end of a rainstorm, the best is yet to come. You're about to see some some really beautiful things come from this difficult stage.
Speaker 2:A mentor acknowledging that contending for the relationship is is what'll make or make or break the relationship, I think, is is vital. So a mentor walks into this not just with, oh, you know, I'm volunteering and, well, I'm showing up, but there is this conscious decision to face adversity and difficulty and to contend for the relationship because of the wall of past experiences that prevent prevent a kid from experiencing the the investment of a mentor. And I I just think that that personal responsibility of a mentor and contending is great, but that it comes I I love how the the wall stage leads into that of that, okay. I'm showing up, allowing this kid to take down the wall, but then as I get access, am I willing to engage and contend for that relationship? If I'm the 1st person getting behind the wall, am I willing to make sacrifices?
Speaker 2:Am I willing to even say the hard thing in order for the kid to know that I want what's best for him. And just that in in that stage of when the wall comes down, you have the decision to walk away and allow this kid to just build the wall back up again or to enter into that space and kind of disallow him from building it up again for every other relationship that he has. I just think that that that's that's a huge responsibility of a mentor is to to contend in that space.
Speaker 3:Well, it's almost like whenever me and my wife went on our first date, right, my wife didn't know I I had trauma in my past. I didn't know that my wife had a chronic illness that was gonna make life fairly difficult on us. I didn't know the issues in her past. She didn't know my deepest, darkest secrets. Right?
Speaker 3:When those things start to surface, and if you're with someone for long enough in any relationship, they will surface.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Us fighting through that and us dealing with that together, that has made us who we are today. And I look back and while we were going through it, it was terribly difficult. But now that we're through it, I look back and say, man, that that's made us who we are today, and I wouldn't change that for the world. So the old saying is what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And as cheesy as that is, it's it is so true.
Speaker 3:The next stage which is
Speaker 2:The genuine relationship stage. This is when the mentor relationship becomes the real deal, the lifelong relationship that I think every mentor longs to create with their mentee. This is when you start to understand, as a mentee, that your mentor is backing up what he's saying. He's trustworthy. He's always doing what he what he says he's gonna do.
Speaker 2:And a mentee in this stage also understands that whatever they do, they're still loved. That that love regardless, I think, creates this place where they can show up and receive love and and know that their mentor cares for them and believes in them and speaks worth and value and treasures their relationship. I think that that's that's the huge thing that for me and Zee, when I started getting texts from him, he was like, hey. What are you up to? I recognized our relationship had shifted to this place of really, like, mutual relationship, which I I think that's where this place is, was where it's not necessarily dependent upon everything that you're bringing to the relationship, but it becomes this actual relationship where where you're both bringing something to the table.
Speaker 2:And I and I don't necessarily wanna say that the mentor's responsibility isn't, I think, the leader of the relationship. But I definitely think as you get to this stage, the mentee feels the authority to direct and ask questions and open up more and ask questions. And I I just think that that's it's an amazing thing to see and be a part of because I think it's what every mentor longs to see, longs to see their mentee pick up everything that they're throwing at them.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, for most mentors, the genuine relationship stage is what they signed up for. Exactly. It just took a couple years, maybe 5 or 6 years to get there. Right?
Speaker 3:And so, like, first off, that's why just the benefits of starting to mentor a kid when he's young are so great because you can kinda get to this stage faster. But also keep in mind that these seasons, they coincide greatly with the maturity of the kid, the age of a kid. Even the most mature third grader is gonna have a hard time having a genuine relationship with anyone. Right? But this is also where one of the 3 a's is highlighted, and that's the a of acceptance.
Speaker 3:My mentor loves me for me, not for what I do. This is where the mentor, he focuses more on quality time instead of deeds or progress or things like that. He understands that only the Lord can change a kid's heart, that he isn't striving or, like, trying to turn this kid into, what he thinks that he should be. And it's also where just kinda celebrating the small wins, the mentor has grown in positivity, he's grown in perseverance. I mean, this is the stage where the kid knows what he's getting and the mentor knows what he's getting, and they're choosing to continue to engage through the good and the bad.
Speaker 3:And perhaps I would also say that for as much as the kid can, this is where you will start to see some fruit. So keep an eye out for it. Right? Like, a teenager texting his mentor, like, that's fruit. Like, that's a that's a giant pineapple.
Speaker 3:Right? Because, like, this teenager is putting forth effort, and he's trying the best that he can to show you that you matter. Or maybe it's the, you've been telling this kid, I love you. I love you. I love you for 5 years.
Speaker 3:And finally, he says, I love you too. Right? Like, that's fruit. And it and it is it is in this stage where not not only is the wall down, but he's beginning to open up his heart. And, man, that is really where the Lord can use you to heal some of the wounds and to really speak wisdom and to speak truth and to and to comfort him in some of the things that built that wall up.
Speaker 3:You can start to perhaps talk about the trauma. You can talk about family stuff. You can talk about the disappointments and the hurts and the fears. Right? And you can really be the hands and feet of Jesus as they begin to open themselves up to you.
Speaker 3:And for some kids, you might very well be the only person in their life, perhaps the only person who isn't a part of their family who they're opening up to. And the Lord can use that and do major work on a kid's heart.
Speaker 2:Seeing as the the first few stages are kind of, you know, there's difficulty and there's a trial, there's adversity, there's something you have to contend for. We're kinda making the genuine relationship stage sound like there aren't any issues, and and I think that that's that's not true, that genuine relationships have issues, have problems, but you're in a place of health where you can address them in ways you couldn't before. Right. And so I don't I don't know if you have any thoughts on on difficulties that you faced in in a genuine relationship stage of a mentor relationship, or what lies could you believe in this stage?
Speaker 3:Well, every kid's different. Right? And so I know some of the difficulties, include just most things that adults deal with in teenagers or things like that. And so, typically, this this stage does tend to happen between, you know, 14, 15, all the way through the mid twenties. But you have to kind of, for some kids, fight for their time.
Speaker 3:They're so busy with sports. They're so busy with their friends. They're so busy trying to get attention and acceptance and affirmation from their peers that they have kind of forgot about you. And so the good news is is that you're at a point in your relationship where you can actually talk about that. If you start to rebuke a kid whenever you first meet him, that's probably not gonna go well.
Speaker 3:But now that you've kinda built up that foundation, this is where you can kinda start to have those conversations. Hey. You're not making good choices. Hey. You hurt my feelings.
Speaker 3:I see you doing this, and I don't think that it'll turn out well. And so I think one of the challenges is really learning how to have that conflict in a healthy way. Because for some of our kids, they've never had an adult who has called them up before, who said, hey. What you're doing isn't good, and you need to change it. Some of the lies, I think, that I have experienced is this kid doesn't need me.
Speaker 3:He's 18. He's 19. He's an adult now. It sure doesn't seem like he does. I would just say that we all need some guidance at every point in our life.
Speaker 3:In the genuine relationship stage, it's more about quality time than quantity of time. And so
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 3:For a kid who's in elementary school, you you might see him every week, but you might see him every week for 15 minutes. Right? Because you can't really have a super long conversation with a kid in 3rd grade. But this is where, like, you might only talk to your kid once a month, but it might be taking them out to dinner, and y'all have really in-depth conversation for an hour and a half. And so don't don't believe if he's not calling you, if he puts his friends or sports or school or colleges or their own aspirations above your relationship.
Speaker 3:Don't quit, and don't think that he doesn't need you. And one thing that has helped me out a lot is focus on the time that you do get with them instead of focusing on what you're not getting with them. Sometimes, if a kid would only spend an hour with me a month instead of being so happy to see him for that hour, I was mad because I'm like, woah, how come you're not calling me? How come you're not texting me? Right?
Speaker 3:And I was focusing on what wasn't happening instead of focusing on and being joyful for what was happening. And so as they get older and you have to use discernment, and you have to let the Holy Spirit kinda kinda take over here, but you can kinda let them into your life. Right? And you can kinda share some of your experiences. Hey.
Speaker 3:This is what I dealt with whenever I was your age. And as the spirit leads, you can kinda begin to give them access to your stories and where you failed. So, hopefully, they can learn from that. The genuine relationship stage, this is where things are really starting to get real. Like, you you feel appreciated perhaps, you're seeing some fruit, and this will lead to what I like to call the lifelong relationship stage.
Speaker 3:And I also do think that in this stage, there is kind of a choice that has to be made. As your kid finishes high school, goes off into college, maybe they finish college and go off and get a job, it's up to you as the mentor to continue to pursue them and to continue to invest into them. I'm gonna be honest, there's not a lot of people under the age of 25 who are going to pursue you as a mentor. Just they aren't to a point in their life yet where they're they're seeking out wisdom, they're seeking out advice, they are pursuing the opinions of other people and have the humility to say, maybe I don't have this figured out. Right?
Speaker 3:Most kids who are teenagers think that they have it figured out. And that isn't that isn't a knock on kids. It's just kind of how it is. And so the number one thing that I would say that is important when you enter into the lifelong relationship stage is just don't stop. And if you're confused as to if the kid wants to hang out with you or not, just ask them.
Speaker 3:Hey. Would you like to still meet? Would you like for me to still call you? Would you like to still have lunch? Or how often?
Speaker 3:Right? And so but I really do believe that the biggest win is if a kid who you started mentoring when they were in elementary school or junior high school or high school, when they get married, you're at their wedding. When they start to have kids, you're there. Whenever they, are entering into the workforce, they call you for advice. Right?
Speaker 3:And this really is lifelong. There's a guy on our board who he is now in his fifties, but he still has lunch once a month with a guy who mentored him in high school. They've been having lunch for 30 years. Right? How awesome is that?
Speaker 3:And my friend would say, this guy is the most important man in my life, bar none. And we have that chance if we just don't quit. And so for me, I want my kids to call the kid who I mentor brother. I want my kids to know them and to experience them. I want my wife to love the kid who I mentor as much as I do.
Speaker 3:I want them to be a part of my family. I wanna be the best man at his wedding. I want the kid who I mentor to name their kid after me. That sounds a little bit sounds pretty arrogant, but I named my kid after the guy who mentored me. Right?
Speaker 3:As morbid as it sounds, right, I want the kids who I mentor to be the pallbearers at my at my funeral. And I believe that that is the power of mentoring. That's the power of relationship. That is the chance that we have, and that is making a disciple. And I I wanna challenge the guys who I mentor to mentor as well.
Speaker 3:I want to create disciples who make disciples. And, hey, if if that isn't an option, if that doesn't happen, that's okay. You have to ask yourself, was this kid's life better because the Lord used me in it? And for almost every mentoring relationship, the answer there is yes. But how cool would it be if you're able to spend that you're able to spend the rest of your life investing into this kid?
Speaker 3:That's how relationships change lives. That's how generational curses can turn in to generational blessings.
Speaker 2:I think there are a lot of similar things between the genuine relationship stage and the lifelong relationship stage. Primarily, the lifelong relationship stage is is a place where the mentor continues with their commitment, and the mentee commit continues with their commitment to the relationship. And so, really, I mean, I think if there were a few things that I'd say are needed for mentors to nurture, to to have a lifelong relationship with their mentee, I think they still have to believe the best. And so when you run into a situation where they miss a lunch or you don't hear for them for 3 months, who cares? You've you've known them for for years.
Speaker 2:I I just do you have any of those friends where you haven't heard from them in 3 months, but as soon as you hear from them, it's like you're back to you're back to normal? Oh, yeah. For sure. And I think that that's the the hope that we have for our mentor relationships. Don't quit.
Speaker 2:Trust the process. Lifelong relationships for mentoring. You may have an expectation for when when you started the mentor relationship that they would be a consultant at KPMG one day because that's what you were and that's what you taught them about, and that might not necessarily be the case for their life. They might be in another industry. They might not have a job that you think is successful or meet some bar of of success in our culture, but that's okay.
Speaker 2:You don't need to maintain a lifelong relationship. They don't have to meet some expectation because in the lifelong relationship stage, you shouldn't have expectations of them. You're just there. You love them. You care for them.
Speaker 2:In this stage, you still have to let god be god and know that you're not the savior. And so you may run into situations where they need help. That's fine. You need to recognize that your role isn't just to bail them out. I feel like you can run into a lot of situations where you can lose boundaries because of long term relationships that go go south.
Speaker 2:And I feel like I think about I think about guys that I invested in that a few years later, I only hear from them when they need something. And I I don't necessarily think that that's what we're looking for in the lifelong mentor relationship stage, but maybe that's something that that happens and you need to be prepared for it. And so I I wanna encourage every mentor to have boundaries and to ultimately just have love and trust to that God's gonna care for them and and do only do what you can do, not not what God's responsibility is and their responsibility is.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think you don't get to the lifelong relationship stage without a huge amount of humility of saying, Lord, you're really in control of this relationship, and I'm just here to show up. And Lord, use me however you want. It takes humility to continue to pursue when they don't answer the phone. It takes humility to die to your dreams for this kid and say, no, Lord.
Speaker 3:Whatever you have for them is better. It takes humility to love unconditionally, to consider someone more important than you. Right? And so I think if we get to the lifelong relationship stage, all that perseverance and all that hope and all that prayer and all that continuing to show up no matter what, that's gonna turn us into someone who looks a whole lot more like Jesus than whenever we first started.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it it proves our intentions from the get go in the relationship.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That it's not about me, it's all about you. And that's humility. That's selflessness. And just the most important thing, is just don't quit.
Speaker 3:Just do not quit. If you fall down, that's okay. Get back up. Because we believe that the Lord is gonna use you to totally not only transform this kid's life, but to transform their kids' lives and their kids' kids. And you really do have the opportunity to turn a generational curse into a generational blessing.
Speaker 3:All because of what the Lord does through your relationship.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to the Youkumentor podcast. We are glad to have you as a listener. Want to encourage you to share this episode with someone that the Lord puts on your mind. Who's maybe in one of these seasons of mentoring. We hope it's an encouragement.
Speaker 2:We'd love. If you would subscribe to the podcast to get all of our future episodes, as well as check out our website, youcanmentor.com. We want to provide many resources for all mentors in all the various stages to help you build relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. So we'd love to see you on the flip side. And if there's one thing you picked up from today's episode, let it be this.
Speaker 2:You can mentor.