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The Relaxed Running podcast is a behind the scenes conversation with the best athletes, coaches and professionals in the world of distance running. From training, hydration and nutrition to racing and recovering, we learn from the best in the world.
Relaxed conversations which are packed with actionable takeaways to help you take your running performance up a notch. Save yourself years of guess work and learn from the people who are doing it at the highest level.
Tyson (00:00.203)
But yeah, as I said, I was a bit flustered for a minute because I was like, crap, I'm lucky I had some clothes on when I came up here to do my little studio test.
Andy Blow (00:06.970)
Hehehe
Andy Blow (00:09.650)
Yeah, no, we're all good, mate. All good. It's been a busy start to the year, but trying to think when it was our last chat with you, it's going to be a while ago.
Tyson (00:17.763)
It must have been, I reckon, I think I just moved to where I'm at now, which was about two years ago. And I think I've spoken to you since then, but I'll have to scroll back and have a look. It wasn't until I was chatting with Matt Fox the other day and I was telling him that I was keen to chat with you again. And he's like, oh, when did you last talk? I was like, mate, it's bloody. It's been a long time. And then the reason I knew it had been such a long time is because your hair was down to your nipples.
Andy Blow (00:39.410)
Yeah, ages.
Andy Blow (00:44.990)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it keeps going, mate, it keeps going.
Tyson (00:48.206)
You pull it off well. Oh, anyway, man.
Andy Blow (00:50.550)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've been yeah, so, do you know Matt from when he was in Oz?
Tyson (00:55.423)
Me and him, we used to race each other and I always got on well with him. And we probably about 10 years ago, or maybe even a little bit more than that now, we had like a university games race and we connected pretty well up in Queensland here. And then just through a couple of projects and stuff that him and I have done over the last couple of years, like he would shoot me a little bit of love to say what he liked or ask questions and then vice versa. And I'd started watching,
Andy Blow (00:58.118)
Okay.
Andy Blow (01:23.292)
Yeah.
Tyson (01:25.303)
for probably seven or eight years. And then I was just on YouTube a while ago and athletes kept mentioning Sweat Elite. And so I got into it a little bit and I was like, who's behind all this? And just coincidentally, I found out it was him. And then I saw your good looking face on one of his pre-marathon videos. Hehehehe.
Andy Blow (01:32.671)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (01:38.513)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (01:43.310)
Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I've got a, uh, I've got, I've got a really dry, I've got a really crack if it keeps like cracking open and I have to keep just putting, so I'm just going to put some stuff on it. Cause it, ah, so it's like the tiniest thing and it's so, so annoying. I was working out in the, in the yard or weekend and, uh, just like, you know, getting blasted with the wind. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, good. Well, we know he's a good, he's a good egg.
Tyson (01:51.934)
Uhhh
Tyson (01:55.143)
Nah, do your thing man.
Andy Blow (02:13.990)
doing a run with Matt, I'm doing a relay run with him and a bunch of other people in Europe in a few weeks time. So, should be good. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, it's in June, it's like, it's a few weeks away, so yeah. Yeah, all good.
Tyson (02:20.618)
Is it after London the marathon yeah
Tyson (02:27.663)
Yeah, beautiful. Oh, that's good, man. Well, I know I'm sort of about 15 minutes now later than what we thought. So I won't take up too much of your time, but should we just jump into it? And pretty, my mindset, man, was quite relaxed with the direction that we take it. Obviously, Chris gave me a couple of pointers and stuff like that as to what's been going on there. But I mean, fairly standard story. I always feel like the best conversations are the most natural ones. And I've spoken to you enough now to know that you and I have no trouble doing that.
Andy Blow (02:46.134)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (02:53.450)
Absolutely.
Tyson (02:57.965)
40, 45 minutes-ish work for you.
Andy Blow (03:00.210)
Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, that's all good. Yeah, that would be perfect. If I can be done by the top of the hour, that'd be spot on.
Tyson (03:05.683)
Done. Yeah, we'll make sure I'll keep my eye on the clock at 7 14 my time now. So eight o'clock will be wrapped up Awesome. Um, well man, we're just saying I feel like it's a common theme with some people on this podcast, especially repeat offenders like yourself at The time just flies by the between conversation sometimes and I was saying to you that the the one thing that gave away how long it had been was Our first podcast. I think you had hair which was about my length And now you look like hercules almost but just better looking
Andy Blow (03:07.914)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (03:30.290)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tyson (03:35.683)
have been a good couple of years.
Andy Blow (03:37.730)
Yeah, it's how we measure time, the precision fuel and hydration now, mate. It's for how far down the hair is going. It may be one day it'll be out of shot.
Tyson (03:49.343)
I am I was watching one of Matt Fox's sweat elite videos where you made an appearance in his I don't know What marathon he was preparing for but it's doing three by five K somewhere in the UK probably Central London I'm guessing actually I've got a feeling this is a side note but I've got a feeling that wherever it was I've been before because I Reckon you guys went to a cafe after that session that was fairly familiar with me. Do you remember where you guys filmed that?
Andy Blow (03:59.497)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (04:02.076)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (04:13.230)
Yeah, we were at Bathsea Park, so it is in London. And there's a little, I don't know what the cafe's called, but it's a little cafe by the pond there in the middle, but that was where Matt needed to refuel. Yeah, he'd done three by 5K. He was just building up to a Saka marathon, where he actually ran 221, I think, in the end, or 222, something like that. It was a solid run.
Tyson (04:39.443)
I didn't realise how closely you guys had worked together because he was explaining to me the transition from his 800 metre running to the marathon. So 10 years ago, when I first started having a bit more to do with him, he was sort of rocking around 148 for 800 metres and 345. And then I, on the podcast, heard that he was trying to crack two hours 20 and it blew my mind because I didn't know those fast switch fibres would adjust so well to the longer distances. But one of the things that he was explaining to me was
Andy Blow (04:53.954)
Yeah, yeah.
Tyson (05:09.403)
trouble with cramps and I don't know if that's how you guys got to get connected but I mentioned precision hydration I was like mate you've got to reach out to Andy Blow and he's like well he has this for you I think I know Andy Blow better than you do because you haven't seen one of my more recent videos how did you guys start working together
Andy Blow (05:21.641)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (05:27.330)
Yeah, I'm trying to think someone introduced this. Oh, I know who it was. There's a guy at the company, Super Sapiens who are using the continuous glucose monitors is a mutual connection. And he, he put us in touch with Matt partly because of his cramping stuff, but also because of his, the sweat elite project, things that he's doing, he's obviously doing more longer events himself. He wanted some help with his fueling as well. So yeah, we got connected and then started helping him out.
Andy Blow (05:57.290)
guy to work with, you know, very obviously an impressive runner in his own right. And yeah, got, got a good community around him. Loads of people following him on Strava and looking at his training. He's really, he's really good at being open and sharing everything that he's doing, which I think what draws people in.
Tyson (06:06.703)
you
Tyson (06:14.203)
Yeah, not showy either, which I like. He's just very honest and open about his struggles. And I find it hard, especially when I started the podcast, like it's, I struggled a little bit to be open about the things that I was struggling with training wise. And I wasn't doing a whole heap specifically for marathon training or whatever, but I definitely appreciate that skill. You guys are pretty well connected with a few Aussies. I'm not sure I can edit this out if it's not a public knowledge just yet, but I had Lisa Waightman on the show a couple of weeks ago, who's also a friend of mine.
Andy Blow (06:16.751)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tyson (06:44.483)
after the recording that she was in touch with you guys. And I don't know if you call it an ambassador or a partner or whatever, but she said there was a few things in the works.
Andy Blow (06:50.630)
Yeah. Yeah. Lisa's Lisa's. Yeah. So Lisa's been genuinely just like a customer. She's just been using our products for a while. And then one of the guys had a call with her because she'd just got in touch to have a call with someone and had sort of been quite, I think quite modest about what she was doing, but obviously at some point she told us what time she was running and all that kind of thing. And the fact that she was essentially like, I think it's Aussie record holder, isn't it? Or, um, for the marathon or.
Tyson (07:17.765)
I think she's third fastest of all time, but she's very close
Andy Blow (07:21.230)
she's up there. She's up there, you know, at low 220s and stuff. So we got chatting with them and some of the, we do call them ambassadors, the people that represent the brand, but really they're like, usually they come about through authentic situations like that. So Lisa's been using the products for a while. She's been tapping into the team for some advice and then we formalize an agreement with her, you know, to work with her a bit more closely. So that's
coming to fruition now, which is really exciting.
Tyson (07:53.403)
Yeah, it's good. You've got her on at a good time because yeah I again to go back to foxy who I've been referring to a lot He was on the show a few weeks ago I heard her speaking on his podcast and I don't want to add years to it But I think she's 43 but she's a spring chicken because I don't know if you know Sinead Diver She sets I want to say maybe she set the Australian record or she was very close. I should know that But she's 47 running around so it turns out that Lisa's still got a few years off her sleeve
Andy Blow (08:17.172)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (08:23.618)
Yeah, yeah.
Tyson (08:23.663)
Maybe by the time all said and done that she she will have that but now that's great man. It's exciting to hear about Just how much the word of precision hydration is getting out. It's really noticeable I've found the last couple of years of I've seen it become a lot more of a Well-known brand especially over here when we first started talking it was it was sort of a newer company at least on my my radar but the amount of people now who were who are really familiar with the products and And some of the things that you're bringing out has been interesting to watch
Tyson (08:54.683)
One of the things I was keen to pick your brain about today, I mean, there's a few things, but one of the things that I heard you speak about recently was some of the newer products that you just bought out. Now, I haven't ever been as focused as I am on hydration as what I am currently. So just for a little context, I'm back in the ring. I've thrown the hat in the... I think that's the wrong expression. That means when you quit. But I put my hand up to get back out and attack the marathon again later this year.
Andy Blow (09:17.090)
Yeah.
Tyson (09:23.623)
as I'd sort of been speaking to Chris, your workmate about, and the hydration factor, honestly, the last couple of conversations we've had, I've chatted with you out of interest for so many other runners. And now I feel like it's a far more selfish conversation because I realized just how big a conversation it really is. But man, just, I mean, as a little bit of a foundation for the chat, as we said, it's been a while since we have spoken. What's been going on at Precision Hydration in the last couple of years?
Andy Blow (09:29.316)
you
Andy Blow (09:39.569)
Yeah.
Tyson (09:53.303)
It certainly seems like a lot.
Andy Blow (09:55.810)
Yeah, we've grown quite a bit in terms of, you know, both in terms of our product range and, and the, the, the amount of people we've got on the team now. So it's just been, it's been an interesting couple of years. We brought out the fueling products. So energy gels, energy chews, and a carbohydrate drink during COVID lockdown. We sort of launched them, conceived them and developed them and launched them as lockdown was coming to an end. And they've really
Andy Blow (10:25.650)
a lot of customers who appreciated the hydration products and were probably already buying energy gels somewhere else, so we figured that a lot of them would try our products out of curiosity, if nothing else. But the reception for them has been amazing. They've really taken off and the repeat rate at which people are coming back for them is astounding. It's actually like keeping us on our toes, making sure that we're fully stocked and supplied. And I think one of the biggest factors with that is
Andy Blow (10:55.710)
always tried to do is educate around how to use the products effectively, as you well know, because really that's the missing piece of the puzzle. There's lots of really good products out there, but what there is is, in my opinion, a lack of really clear information about how to use them. So, you know, some of the products like we've got the bigger gels with the, all of the products have got the amount of carbohydrate on the front, and then we've got the online fuel and hydration planner, the calculator, which we totally revamped because before it was all about hydration, now it's about
Tyson (11:12.603)
I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me.
Andy Blow (11:25.650)
And we can give you a really good idea based on what event you're doing, how long it's going to take you, the intensity that you're working out, the environmental conditions. We can give you a really good idea of how many grams of carbs per hour, how much fluid per hour, how much sodium per hour you as an individual should need. And then you can really sort of work on putting that plan in place when you go out and do whatever it is you're going to do. So I think that combination of bringing the fueling products in and tying it all together
with the online planner has been what's kept us busy for a good couple of years now.
Tyson (12:01.948)
Yeah, I've been a big fan of that free online sweat test that you guys offer. And I know that you guys do a more in-depth one if you've got the opportunity to be there in person, you know, where you can take a few more samples or have a bit more of a deep dive into what it is that you need to replace with athletes that you've got in there. But in terms of,
Tyson (12:23.703)
I guess value for money or in terms of what you're actually getting out of that free online test Is it a pretty close? Comparison to what you're going to get if you're in there in person because one thing that i've sort of Hesitated recommending too much is is just saying hey like this is exactly what you need to do Um because in the back of my mind i'm like no No, I want to try and encourage him to find a place to actually get in there and do it But then based on what i've experienced and some of the athletes that i've heard speak about the sweat test I mean it sounds like it's a it's a really good
Andy Blow (12:45.970)
to do a full test here.
Tyson (12:53.523)
it's a really good little radar as to what you should be consuming and when.
Andy Blow (12:57.950)
Yeah, I think the online test fills the gap between obviously just operating in a vacuum of any sort of recommendation or knowledge. If you move from that to doing the online test, which is free and simple and quick, then that gives you a massive steer in the right direction. I would say for a lot of people, that is potentially good enough because then they can take the information from that, some trial and error, figure out what they're doing and away they go. It kind of gets you in the right zone.
Tyson (13:14.803)
I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it.
Andy Blow (13:28.050)
super, super hot or humid. If you're someone who's had what you would classify as hydration problems in the past, if you're a big cramper, if you've had dehydration or hyponatremia, if you fade and fail when the weather gets hotter, then they're all signs that maybe you need to have a bit more of a deeper dive into this, which is where then finding out where you can do a physical sweat test is perhaps more of a priority.
Tyson (13:54.403)
Thanks for watching!
Andy Blow (13:57.950)
to do is go and find a sweat test that you should you sort of know if if doing longer events in the heat is your problem, then a sweat test is going to be way more valuable than if you're someone who lives in a cold climate or doesn't doesn't have problems racing in the heat. But you know, the online tool, the great thing about it is, is it it costs nothing and you can do it immediately. The key thing to do is to take the information off the back of it and just like trial and error then around the recommendations. And
Tyson (14:00.303)
you
Andy Blow (14:28.439)
Have it all set.
Tyson (14:29.891)
Yeah, beautiful. I'm booked in to have a chat with Raf in the next couple of weeks. One of your guys over there to help me clarify exactly what it is I need to get prepared. But one of the things that obviously I'm very interested now is in that marathon or the event specific fueling and hydration.
Andy Blow (14:35.558)
Awesome.
Tyson (14:47.003)
we get there and another thing that I've been toying with and uncertain about was just day-to-day hydration. Now, I remember years ago I went to a sports doctor and she said, well, the amount of exercise that you're doing, you should be drinking 50% water and 50% sports drink. And I thought, okay, well, I just took her at her word, didn't look too much into it. And I mean, I don't know how much of a difference it made physically, but I look at the sugar content of that Staminate that I was drinking. And I think I'm not sure that
Andy Blow (15:12.313)
Yeah.
Tyson (15:17.303)
a precision hydration perspective, like for an athlete who is training fairly regularly, is obviously it's not just water that we're losing. When we run, we're losing salts and we're losing carbs and we're losing a whole range of things. Have you got any general recommendations just for that day-to-day guidance on what you should be consuming to keep things around about topped up?
Andy Blow (15:39.290)
Yeah, it's a really tricky one to offer general guidance on because there's so many variables that influence it one way or the other. And I think, you know, there's been all this, a lot of people have heard chat over the years about like eight glasses of water a day, for example, as a baseline hydration. But I think we all know that some days, if you drank eight glasses of water, you'd be running to the bathroom constantly. And other days, if you drank eight glasses of water, you'd still be thirsty and parched and it wouldn't be anywhere near enough
Andy Blow (16:09.570)
the homeostasis, the fluid balance in the body that goes on is quite dynamic. It is quite variable from day to day and putting a blanket over it all to give a generalized recommendation is really tricky. What I would say is that for athletes, yeah, we definitely know that data shows that quite often athletes have a habit of turning up for training sessions a little bit dehydrated sometimes and or more often than not. And so
Andy Blow (16:39.390)
maybe athletes need to be more conscious about their hydration. I think that if you're in hot weather, if your training load is high, if you're just someone who has a high sweatbait when you're training, obviously your water turnover within 24 hours is going to be much higher than someone who's just sitting in an office in air conditioning and doing no training. So you can make some broad comments about the fact that, yeah, you're going to need to drink more, but it's all about being
Tyson (16:39.903)
you
Tyson (16:54.803)
I'm going to be talking about the first two things that I want to talk about. First, the first thing is the first thing is the second thing is the third thing is the fourth thing is the fifth thing is the sixth thing is the seventh thing is the eighth thing is the tenth thing is the tenth thing is the tenth thing is the
Andy Blow (17:09.590)
So that's where I think just there's no quick and simple answer but getting to know your body and know what you lose, what you need, how you perform on different levels of intake. You kind of build it, you need to build up a very individual mental database of all of that. You know, so I've been doing a lot recently because we're testing some sweat sensors at the moment. I've been sitting just behind me, you can just see the static bike. So I've been sitting on a bike a lot, weighing myself before and after
Tyson (17:24.803)
I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you how to do it.
Andy Blow (17:39.370)
hour long steady state sessions and getting a real handle on what my sweat rates like. I've also started doing it with some of my running sessions again, because it's been years since I've done that sort of stuff. And it's super interesting. You know, I found that when I went for a run the other morning, it was like lovely day, but bright and cold, but three degrees Celsius. So just for freezing, like actually felt lovely for running in. And I went out and ran for an hour, pretty hard. I was probably running for me at the moment, like
Tyson (18:03.903)
I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it. So, I'm going to show you how to do it.
Andy Blow (18:09.450)
what would be something close to sort of marathon effort I guess and I only sweated out like 500 mils in an hour like half a liter because the weather is so cool you just it was cool and dry if I go and do that same session in 25 degrees Celsius I know from previous data that I can lose like easily lose 2 liters fluid so you've got to take in so what I needed to drink to compensate for
loss i didn't even do anything special after that running i had a glass of water i had a cup of tea i sort of rehydrate through the day normally there's i didn't take any. Specific action i just rehydrate normally if i had done that session in the heat lost two liters of sweat i would definitely be nailing an electric whole bottle a liter probably the electric drink when i finish the run and then having the one later in the day at least. In order to help compensate for that so i think.
Tyson (18:48.403)
I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me.
Andy Blow (19:09.630)
but I think it's false to give people a general recommendation. I think you've got to appreciate that you've got to be dynamic to what your individual needs are and appreciating that your individual needs as a runner are probably largely going to be driven by your sweat rate, the climate and the amount of hours that you're doing.
Tyson (19:26.308)
Yeah, it's really common sense stuff when you say it out loud, isn't it? But so often, I guess it's the common sense, the simple things that we skip over, especially when you start digging into the science behind what it is that you consume. I mean, I've got a habit of over-complicating things if I'm not careful. So that's a nice little reminder. It's also a subject I'm interested in with specific regard to, to use your example,
Tyson (19:48.523)
because in an ideal world, I think, okay, well, I'd weigh myself before I went out for the run, weigh myself when I got home, and that'd give me a ballpark figure as to, you know, how much I'd lost in terms of fluid over the course of that run. But in terms of the average runner, so I'm gonna assume that majority of the listeners here don't have the luxury of having someone to be out there with them on a bike for their long runs. Sure, they might be able to go out, schedule a couple of drink stations
Tyson (20:19.423)
But to be selfish for a minute and to use myself as an example, I've looked at the calendar in the next few months and I've sort of got a 16 week specific build up to the Melbourne Marathon where for about 12 of those weeks, ideally I'd like to hit sort of between 30 and 36 K's for a lot of the runs. But I know based on where I'm going to be running that I'm not going to have anyone on most of the runs out on a bike. There's not really anywhere that I'm going to go out and you know place drink bottles just because it's a bit difficult,
hard to access with some of the paths that I'll be running on. What do you recommend to a bloke like me to maintain some kind of, um, fuel, some kind of energy source that I can draw on later in the runs is the ideal situation there just to focus on getting gels or should I change the circuit that I'm running on to make sure I'm hitting water? Like it's been a question mark that I've sort of had an asterisk next to, to, to bring to you.
Andy Blow (21:17.530)
Yeah, it sort of, it sort of depends a little bit on, I suppose, what your, what your goals are with the training and the race and also a bit on the climate. So if it's going to be, if it's going to be hot or warm, then I would say that when you're running 30 plus K, making sure you've got some fluids is a priority. You'll probably be able to just about if you're fit, like you are, you're well conditioned, you'll be able to eat the sessions out and probably perform quite well, even if you didn't drink at all.
Tyson (21:24.703)
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Andy Blow (21:47.590)
drink off the bat. I reckon though what you'd find is that your performance, you could run the risk of slowing down in the last few K's and also your recovery will definitely be impaired. You know, it will take you much, much longer to get over the session. So I'd be saying like, if you can find ways to run with a bottle, if you don't want to stop, you know, I've got, I've got a couple of options. If I'm going for a really long run, I've got a pack which has a 700 mil bottle under
Andy Blow (22:18.070)
flat and I find that's just a really ergonomically good way to carry quite a lot of fluid. It doesn't bounce around in your back like a camel pack does. You can see how much you've drunk. You can also have say a bottle of energy drink and a bottle of electrolytes or a bottle of water and a bottle of electrolytes. So you can mix it up or a waste pack, you know, with one or two bottles. I've trained with a guy in the States, um, Mario Frioli, who runs with a handheld bottle a lot. So he has half a liter on there. And then he just makes sure that he has that.
Tyson (22:30.303)
I'm going to be talking about the first thing that I want to talk about is the first thing that I want to talk about is the first thing that I want to talk about is the first thing that I want to talk about is the first thing that I want to talk about is the first thing that I want to talk about is the first thing that I want to talk about is the first thing that I want to talk about is the first thing that I want to talk about is the
Andy Blow (22:47.650)
he can stop and quickly top up with water on a given route. So I think it's about being inventive and finding ways to get some fluids in, especially if that weather is going to be warmer. And then I would complement that with carrying for 30 Ks. How long is a 30 K run going to take you in training? What kind of pace are you aiming for for the marathon?
Tyson (23:10.349)
I assume, so my goal for the marathon is to, it's the first one, it's the second marathon I've run. So my goal is to break 240. And I mean, I think for my first marathon, that'll take a decent build up because my running history, I mean, I ran a lot 10 years ago and I've run fairly regularly the last few years.
Andy Blow (23:17.434)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (23:30.770)
not as focused, but you're running, but you are running, you know, you're running quick, you know, you're running pretty quick. So you're going to be out there. So let's just call it like, if you're doing.
Tyson (23:30.967)
or as long as what I'll be doing now.
Tyson (23:39.103)
Say 445, like 445 pace roughly, maybe a bit quicker on some of the runs for sure.
Andy Blow (23:42.974)
Yeah, yeah.
Andy Blow (23:45.870)
Yeah. And then, and then, so you're going to be out there for like two hours for your 30 K run. And I would say for that, you want to be trying to get down three to four energy gels, you know, which sounds like a lot to most runners. And that's not saying that you need that much to complete the run. You don't, you'll be able to complete the run on zero fuel, probably, or, or one gel. But if you can get those gels, and that'd be great practice for the race, where you're going to be burning energy a bit faster. And if you can assume more, you
Tyson (23:54.703)
I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me.
Andy Blow (24:15.790)
be able to run faster. And also you'll find, I would bet you that you will find your recovery will be massively enhanced because you don't have to go as deep into your muscle glycogen stores because you're putting extra fuel in. You know, it seems crazy to start taking a gel after 30, 40 minutes of a long run because you just don't, you don't probably feel like you need it until well after an hour, but I would be taking one after 25, 30 minutes and then regularly taking them through because carrying say four energy gels,
Tyson (24:37.103)
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Andy Blow (24:45.750)
very, very light. I've actually just bought a pair of arm sleeves, which have got little pockets in for gels. Or I've got a couple of pairs of more like trail running shorts, which are used for training, that have got good compression pockets on the side. And you can lose four gels in there without even noticing. We've got these bigger, that's the equivalent of three gels. So you could carry one of those and a normal gel with caffeine in it or something like that. And then I'd be aiming to get that amount of carbs in.
alongside whatever fluid is appropriate for how hot it is. So on a really, really hot day, you might drink a liter during that run. On a really, really cool day, you might literally have a few sips and it could be anywhere in between the two. But I think if you're aiming to run that sort of time for the marathon, then 60, 70 grams of carbs an hour is probably what you're gonna be shooting for on race day. So finding a way to get that in in training. The great thing is with 12-week block, you can really build up and get used to doing that.
Tyson (25:23.503)
Uh-huh.
Andy Blow (25:45.910)
and it'll be second nature by the time he gets to the race. So I think that's what I'm shooting for.
Tyson (25:48.785)
Sure, and that's a recommendation just for that, just for that Sunday long run specifically, which is when I'll do my longer one. And then I'll probably do sort of like a 90 minute run, which I mean, in my history as a runner, 90 minutes was a fairly regular run. I don't think I ever carried a gel, but I also wasn't targeting any long-term marathon plan. So I understand your point that like in terms of recovery, maybe it's a beneficial thing to do.
Andy Blow (25:53.733)
Yes.
Andy Blow (26:13.430)
Yeah, I'd have a, yeah, yeah. I'd have a gel on a 90 minute run these days. Um, mainly for the recovery aspects of that, I can easily run for 90 minutes without a gel, but I would have one in the middle of the run to, you know, just to keep myself topped up and you definitely feel a bit stronger at the end and you recover a bit faster. It means that the next day is not as much of a write off in terms of training. You know, you probably, you all the time it's about the accumulation of like the, the adaptation, isn't it? Over.
Tyson (26:24.603)
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Andy Blow (26:43.450)
months and if you can just adapt a bit better by recovering a bit faster then fueling and hydrating properly on those long runs is all part of that process and typically as you've sort of alluded to for people who've run shorter distances who are moving up the distances this isn't something they're used to and because you can complete a 90 minute run without any fuel doesn't mean that you should you know there's a difference there between what you can do and what's optimal to do and I would say that not wishing to tie
the same brush, but runners in general are probably behind the curve on this as compared with say a similar group of triathletes or cyclists, because triathletes and cyclists have had a longer history of fueling for longer events. So they understand the benefit of it. They understand the logistics of it and they're kind of comfortable with the concept. Whereas runners, I think traditionally it's always been seen as like less is more when
Tyson (27:40.812)
Yeah Yeah, I definitely fit into that category I think for two reasons I think first of all like the distances that I were running back in the day were never really
Andy Blow (27:43.370)
is starting to, that mindset is starting to shift.
Tyson (27:56.703)
as my best track event. So there weren't too many gels being consumed in the seven and a half laps, but also laziness. Like it just felt like another thing that I had to look into. And who knows, I mean, maybe there would have been plenty of room for improvement just through focused consumption on some of the long runs. I'd never really even thought about recovery as silly as that sounds. I always thought more about fueling for that specific run, but it makes perfect sense. If you've got to get back up tomorrow, yeah, you want to make sure you're not digging too deeply
Andy Blow (27:58.690)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tyson (28:26.943)
so you can get back out with some form of energy.
Andy Blow (28:28.490)
That's yeah, that's a huge limiter. That's a huge limiter for endurance athletes is if you're not replenishing glycogen and you can start replenishing glycogen as soon as you finish the run, but why not start it? Why not? Yeah. Why not dig yourself less of a hole? You know, why not fuel through the run and spare some of that glycogen? And I think, you know, it's not something to do every single day, but definitely on your longest runs and probably on those, those midweek 90 minutes as well. I would be saying, go, go for it as well.
Tyson (28:37.903)
you
Andy Blow (28:58.470)
just see how you feel. You know, a lot of, a lot of people, it feels a bit wrong at first, but if you try it out, you know, you'll, you'll probably find that you'll have more energy. If you do that run in the morning, you'll have more energy in the day, which then is also just, I hate the phrase, but it's like a life hack. You know, as a dad, you've got, you know, little people running around that sort of thing. You've got to, you can't be lying on the couch after your 90 minute run. You've got to be straight out and at it. So, you know, fuel up and get ready for the rest of the day.
Tyson (29:00.015)
Yeah.
Tyson (29:27.183)
Yeah, that's a good point. Andy, this is probably gonna reveal how new I am to the whole topic of hydration. I mean, which is fine, because I'm sure there's plenty of people who are learning out there as well. But in terms of what we're actually looking to replace, like I understand that there's certain salts, there's certain carbs. The caffeine was a new one. Like for some reason, I always assumed that caffeine was more relevant for someone who wanted like a quick burst. I remember as like a 10 year old going to Little Ass, and my mate saying, hey, drink this Canned Mountain Dew and watch how fast you run. And I was like, okay, I can't wait.
a little bit of a young boy bro site. So are you able to just give me a bit more of an overview as to what it is I need to be replacing? Obviously, I understand that the basics in terms of carbs, in terms of salts, but on a more specific level, what is it that we're actually doing with the gels and with the powders and things that we're taking?
Andy Blow (30:19.190)
Yeah, so caffeine is essentially it's a stimulant. It's probably the most widely used drug in the entire world. I can't remember the statistics, but it's something ridiculous, like maybe 90% of adults have caffeine on a daily basis in some way, be it in like chocolate, tea, coffee. There's lots of things that it's commonly found in. And there's no question that for a majority of people, caffeine is like a positive stimulant,
And the, any benefits it gives you in terms of increased alertness, reducing fatigue, increased productivity tend to outweigh any downsides. There are, there are people who suffer the downsides of coffee. You know, they get anxiety and jitters and heart palpitations and feel overly stimulated by it. And they, they probably should, and they probably already do avoid it. They've probably learned the hard way, you know.
Tyson (31:09.369)
Yeah. I get those feelings if I haven't had coffee.
Andy Blow (31:17.190)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So you're in the same camp as me. You need one to get you going, which is sorry, state of affairs. But, um, but yeah, so, so we kind of, we know that caffeine is really widely used. It's a stimulant and it, and it affects the nervous system in the brain. So it allows you to push a little bit harder. It's been shown in loads of studies to mask the fatigue a little bit of hard endurance exercise.
Tyson (31:33.903)
I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom.
Andy Blow (31:47.050)
to use it if you're someone who is a regular tea and coffee drinker, like you've proven to yourself that you can tolerate caffeine, like why not use it to enhance your performance a little bit. But what people often don't understand is the timing and the dosages for caffeine. So as a rule of thumb, when you have something caffeinated, it takes about 45 minutes, maybe an hour, for that caffeine to peak in your bloodstream. So it's not an instant effect. You can see, you will, some caffeine is in the bloodstream
15 minutes, but it won't peak for another half an hour. So when you when you caffeinate, especially for a short event, you've got to time that. So you're taking your caffeine an hour before rather than five minutes before. Because if you took caffeine five minutes before a 5k, it's going to be over before you've even really felt the effects of it. In terms of dosages, it's pretty clear cut that the sort of performance dose of caffeine from the literature is between
Tyson (32:22.103)
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Andy Blow (32:47.190)
and six milligrams of caffeine per kilogram of your body weight. So how much do you weigh? It's nice and we can work out.
Tyson (32:54.264)
I'm about 77 kilos right now I'll tell you that now and put that on record because I know you in about six weeks. That's just gonna start plummeting
Andy Blow (32:58.634)
So.
Andy Blow (33:09.290)
Yeah, so you're going to need about the lowest sort of dose of caffeine that's going to be effective for you at three milligrams per kilo is going to be about 230 something like that. So you might feel a kick from less but if you drink coffee regularly you're probably you know going to need at least that amount to give you some kind of noticeable benefit which is like two in a bit or
Tyson (33:14.703)
I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me. I'm not sure if you can hear me.
Andy Blow (33:39.150)
and what you might do or for a marathon, a hard marathon training session at the weekend, you'd probably have a coffee as you normally do in the morning, maybe have a caffeine gel as well before the run. And if the run's long enough, you could have that last caffeine gel, like 15 minutes before the start of the run, because then that's gonna give you a little bit of glucose in your system when you start running, because that takes about 15 minutes to kick in. And then the majority of the caffeine's gonna come through as you get into the first half hour, 40 minutes of the run. You might then have another caffeine gel
top it up as that caffeine falls away later on. But it's between, yeah, it's between three and six milligrams of caffeine per kilo of body weight. And it's making sure that when you're, when you're taking the caffeine, you have it far enough in advance of when you want to feel the effects of it, you know, taking a caffeine gel and saving it for mile 22 in the marathon might give you a psychological boost, but it's not really going to touch you until after the event's finished. So you've got to be strategic about how you use it.
Tyson (34:14.603)
I'm not sure if you can see this, but I'm not sure if you can see this. I'm not sure if you can see this, but I'm not sure if you can see this. I'm not sure if you can see this, but I'm not sure if you can see this. I'm not sure if you can see this, but I'm not sure if you can see this. I'm not sure if you can see this, but I'm not sure if you can see this. I'm not sure if you can see this, but I'm not sure if you can see this. I'm not sure if you can see this, but I'm not sure if you can see this.
Andy Blow (34:39.610)
We've actually got a series of three really good articles on our Knowledge Hub on the website about Should you use caffeine? Like how to use caffeine and what dosage is appropriate? So I think if If anyone's listens this and thinks they want a bit more Individualized advice then I'd recommend like go to the Knowledge Hub bit on precisionfuelandhydration.com Just search for caffeine and you'll find those articles
Tyson (35:03.535)
Yeah, yeah, no beautiful beautiful The other thing I was curious to pick your brain about and I ran this by Chris just very briefly was the idea of Carb loading as well is something that I've heard about but
Tyson (35:14.883)
is very foreign to me. Like when someone asked you about carb loading, I can imagine like so much of what you speak about. It's very individual and probably varies based on weight and fitness and pace and whatever else. But I was keen just to pick your brain around this subject as well. Like in terms of how you apply that to training and even more specifically to marathon race day or those days leading up to marathon race day.
Andy Blow (35:40.150)
Yeah, well, believe it or not, carb loading isn't, it is individual to body weight, but it's not really much more individual than that. You know, you would see, so the idea with carb loading is that the majority of carbohydrate that's stored in your body is stored in the muscles, in the muscle fibers, as glycogen. You do store some in the liver as well, which is what gets converted to glucose to put into the bloodstream to keep your blood sugar up.
Tyson (35:45.603)
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this.
Andy Blow (36:10.230)
is how much carbohydrate can you store in your muscles because that's the fuel that you're immediately going to burn through when you start running. And the more you've got on site, the more fuel you've got, the longer you can go while you're resisting fatigue. So carb loading is like, and it is categorically proven to be a solid performance enhancer. It will make a huge difference to you running a marathon. You can load up like starting about 36 to 48 hours out from an event.
of the window, 24 hours if it's a shorter event or if you're eating quite a lot of carbohydrate anyway, but let's call it somewhere between the last one and two days before you start. And an effective carb load, you need to take about a minimum of about eight grams of carbohydrate per kilo of body weight per day. So you can go up to as much as 10 or 12. So you see some
athletes go really quite high. And when you lay that out, that if you work out what eight grams per kilo is for you, and then in terms of grams of carbs, and then lay it out on a table, it's a lot. It's basically eating carbohydrate is the major thing of every part of each meal, and probably having some carbohydrate snacks in between. And in order to do that and not feel horribly sick and bloated and to further improve performance on the day,
Andy Blow (37:40.210)
amount of fat that you have because that reduces the total amount of calories that you're eating. And you're also advised to reduce the fiber intake. So rather than having all the good healthy stuff we normally have like vegetables and fruit and whole grain bread and that kind of thing, you go for this sort of toddler food. It's got to be white, you know, white rice, white bread, white pasta, breakfast cereal, stuff that's very low in fiber because
Tyson (37:53.103)
I'm going to try to get the camera to focus on the camera. I'm going to try to get the camera to focus on the camera. I'm going to try to get the camera to focus on the camera. I'm going to try to get the camera to focus on the camera. I'm going to try to get the camera to focus on the camera.
Andy Blow (38:10.290)
fibre. So doing that for the last year for one or two days in the run up to the event at the same time you're obviously tapering your training at that point leads to something called super compensation in the muscles where you uptake and hold on to even more carbohydrate than normal. And then come race day you might feel a little bit heavier on the start line but that's good because it means you've got loads of fuel on board. So definitely something to practice as well
Tyson (38:35.688)
Yeah, that's really interesting.
Andy Blow (38:40.150)
for a few of your key big runs. I wouldn't do a full two day carb load before a long run, but you could do a 24 hour test of it. So you can figure out what foods you can tolerate and how much it really is. Cause I would bet that a lot of athletes that tell you that they're carb loading, they wouldn't be hitting eight grams per kilo body weight.
Tyson (38:59.392)
Yeah, sure. See, in the back of my mind, without doing any research, I knew that there would have been some question marks. I'm very guilty of jumping on board the Oats bandwagon. I mean, I love it as something to have in my tummy. You know, if I'm about to go out for a run in an hour
Andy Blow (39:11.734)
Yeah.
Tyson (39:14.603)
a little bit empty or a little bit flat. But I mean, in terms of actually trying to load up on a fuel like that, I guess you're playing with fire a little bit. I remember this is how little I looked into at last marathon I did in the first one. I remember my mum came to my house and made like this monstrous sweet potato dish the night before with all these veggies. And I mean, it was delicious, but as I was eating it, it was like, this feels risky. So I'm looking forward to, yeah. So what is it about the 48 hour mark?
Andy Blow (39:37.270)
Yeah, yeah, veggies is not. Yeah.
Tyson (39:44.663)
and going sort of three or four days, I guess you're maximizing how much of that fuel you can store into your muscles after 48 hours, is it? Yeah.
Andy Blow (39:54.310)
Yeah, a lot of studies where they've actually taken biopsies of people's muscles and they've looked at glycogen storage. It's kind of the optimum period where you load up and because obviously if you ate like that every day, if you took it to an extreme, if you ate like that for two weeks before the race, you'd just turn up sluggish and overweight. You'd actually put weight on and get fat. So you're trying to put enough in so that you top those glycogen tanks up, but not so much that you actually gain unnecessary weight or overeat.
So it's a fine line. And I intuitively, well not intuitively, I was told to do it, but I did always used to carb load for big races and always felt like there was a huge benefit from it. And was surprised when I saw a lot of athletes not doing the same. It's sort of, it's free speed as far as I'm concerned, because in a marathon, we know that running out of fuel is one of the real Achilles heels
Andy Blow (40:54.410)
against and so ensuring against that with a good carboload is a solid strategy.
Tyson (41:00.373)
So in those couple of days a year pretty much trying to avoid any Veggies or any fruits at all or just keep it on the bare minimum
Andy Blow (41:08.850)
It depends. If you want to do it by the book, then you've cut them out. I would say for most real people, would I still eat a banana or whatever on the Saturday before marathon? Probably. But I definitely cut out the majority of the, I'm not going to be in a big pile of broccoli and kale salad or something like that. That would be genuinely be a typical lunch for me. I'm not going to do that the day before. I am going to sit there and have a bowl of porridge with honey.
Andy Blow (41:38.370)
some white bagel and probably wash it down with a sports drink. You know, almost to the point where you start to feel a bit sick of eating carbs. But you know that that is topping up the tanks.
Tyson (41:50.563)
Yeah, and I know once the marathon is done, a lot of the rules and a lot of the science go out the window because people are just happy to get the event done and just eat what they want and do what they want and whatever else. But ideally, like I'm sure there's sort of a recipe for quicker turnaround time. Like it's been amazing to me how quickly athletes can recover from a marathon now. And a lot of athletes put it down to the quality of the shoes that they're wearing. But I know at an elite level, there'd be much more of a focus than just what shoes you're wearing. But on the
Andy Blow (41:57.714)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (42:15.191)
Yeah.
Tyson (42:20.443)
the fuels and energy stores that you're throwing back into the tank. Like are there any just general guidelines as to what you should be doing sort of from immediately after the race, you know, up to three or four days after?
Andy Blow (42:32.990)
Yeah, I think the priorities are going to be to rehydrate, refuel, get some get. So immediately after the race, you're going to be thirsty and hungry and you're probably going to want to drink and eat something. It's a good idea to start drinking some water, drinking some electrolyte drinks and getting some sugary carbs back into your system right after you finish because they're easily digestible. Your body's going to be crying out for them. Start putting some glycogen back in. Then then really, it's about having a decent quality meal with some protein
Tyson (42:51.503)
I'm going to go ahead and start the recording. I'm going to start the recording. I'm going to start the recording. I'm going to start the recording. I'm going to start the recording. I'm going to start the recording. I'm going to start the recording.
Andy Blow (43:03.150)
That's the building block to start the repair process because you've done a lot of muscle damage. And then beyond that, really, it's a case of listening to your body. You're going to hopefully be hungry and feel like you want to eat more for a day or so. Sleep is obviously huge. Not everyone sleeps particularly well the night after a big race because your body's quite wired and your brain's quite wired, but trying to get straight back into a good routine of sleeping and then some
Andy Blow (43:33.050)
sitting around, you know, see if you can get in the pool or go for a walk or spin on a bike or something like that within a day or two to just start flushing your legs, but not loading them up with loads more running again. I would say that that's the kind of key priorities if you want to recover as fast as possible.
Tyson (43:35.628)
you
Tyson (43:50.163)
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I remember after my first marathon, it was, I never drink soft drink. And I mean, obviously the fueling just wasn't a focus of mine. I got to the end, I was just dying for like a Coke or a lemonade or something, which I'm pretty sure was a sign that your energy stores were well and truly depleted. Cause as I noticed, I was thinking, like, I don't even care anymore. I'm just gonna have this. I thought like I've obviously done some damage to my body here.
Andy Blow (44:01.035)
Yeah.
Andy Blow (44:05.690)
Definitely, yeah.
Andy Blow (44:13.530)
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. That'd have been the case. If you're craving sugary drinks, then you're low on glycogen, you're low on sugar.
Tyson (44:20.723)
Yeah, man, I've got my eye on the clock. I know you're a busy man with lots to do, so I don't want to go over your time. But I mean, I'd love to touch base with you a little later in the year as I lead up. As I said, I've got a meeting with Raf, one of the guys that's working at Precision Hydration to help me navigate my way through this in a little more detail. So I'm looking forward to that and I'll make sure I keep everyone up to date in the road to Melbourne Marathons on how that goes. And yeah, I mean, we spoke about it before. So anyone who hasn't taken advantage
Andy Blow (44:34.531)
Yeah, awesome.
Andy Blow (44:46.913)
Yeah.
Tyson (44:50.603)
your free sweat test, yeah, highly recommend that. I'll make sure I'll link it in the show notes below, especially for those of you who are, I guess, man, I've just started to be a little more consistent. So I'd never used it before, and then about six weeks ago, I thought, okay, well, I'm gonna upload. So I mean, this is a whole nother podcast that my audience would be sick of me talking about it, but I had a little issue with calf strains
Andy Blow (44:56.090)
Yeah. Are you, um, are you on Strava Tyson? Do you log your training on there?
Tyson (45:20.623)
about six weeks ago and I've just started to get more consistent. So if you're on there, I need all the followers I can get and I'll make sure I return the favor.
Andy Blow (45:21.378)
Yeah.
Tyson (45:37.326)
Oh, I lost you there, did I?
Tyson (45:44.843)
Am I coming through to you, man? Can you hear me?
Tyson (45:54.603)
Thanks for watching!