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British Columbia is in the grips of a housing affordability crisis decades in the making. We need to find innovative solutions.
The Province has an ambitious plan to address the crisis through the largest investment in housing affordability in BC’s history. Tasked with building tens of thousands of homes in hundreds of communities is BC Housing, the province’s agency responsible for developing, managing, and administering a wide range of subsidized housing and homelessness services across the province.
BC Housing doesn’t do this alone. To address the challenge, it’s working with hundreds of partners.
00;00;01;16 - 00;00;37;09
Sara Goldvine
A home.. It's something we all need. But for too many, having a safe place to make a home is out of reach. The challenge is, can seem insurmountable. And yet, each and every day, people are coming together to provide safe, quality and affordable housing for those in need. Welcome to Let's Talk Housing. I'm your host, Sara Goldvine. Join us as we listen to and learn from people in British Columbia who are creating strong, inclusive communities where everyone can thrive.
00;00;37;12 - 00;01;11;02
Sara Goldvine
Hi, and welcome to Let's Talk Housing. I'm your host, Sara Goldvine. To kick off season four, we are joined by a very special guest, Minister of Housing and Municipal Affairs Ravi Kahlon. Minister Kahlon has represented Delta North as MLA since 2017, a position he was just reelected to in October of 2024 after serving in several cabinet roles. In December 2022, Ravi was appointed as Minister of Housing and then following his reelection this fall, he was asked by the Premier to take on an expanded role as Minister of Housing and Municipal Affairs.
00;01;11;09 - 00;01;33;06
Sara Goldvine
As we begin, I'd like to acknowledge we're recording today on the territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and display witness, whose people have stewarded this land since time immemorial. For transparency, this episode is being recorded in December of 2024 and reflects the issues and priorities of that time. Minister Kahlon, welcome back to Let's Talk Housing.
00;01;33;09 - 00;01;38;29
Ravi Kahlon
Sarah, thanks so much. Thanks for, inviting me back. Look forward to the conversation.
00;01;39;01 - 00;02;03;13
Sara Goldvine
It's great to have you here. Congratulations on your reelection. And, you know, it's an exciting time. We saw during the election campaign. Certainly, housing continues to be one of the most pressing, if not the most pressing issue for people here in British Columbia. You know, this expanded portfolio that includes municipal affairs as well as housing. How do you see the intersection there coming together between the two elements of your portfolio?
00;02;03;15 - 00;02;25;29
Ravi Kahlon
Yeah, I think it's a natural fit. Because in the end, what we all want is the same thing. We want vibrant, healthy communities that have, you know, great amenities. We want the rec centers. We want the parks. We want the green space, but we just we want the housing, you know, whether that's, some of the more deeply affordable housing or whether it's the more closer to market rent.
00;02;25;29 - 00;02;42;21
Ravi Kahlon
We need everything. And so with this new role, the the most exciting part is a I'm back. I get to continue to do some of the work that I'm doing, that, the ministry was doing, the B.C. housing doing. So we get to work together on kind of landing some of the big things that we're doing.
00;02;42;23 - 00;03;01;27
Ravi Kahlon
So a lot of the legislation, the changes that we brought in, seeing it all come through, but now we get to add the, the carrot, to, to all the work as well, which is, the important dollars for infrastructure to make sure that we're, making sure that, you know, communities are fully supported.
00;03;01;28 - 00;03;14;06
Ravi Kahlon
You know, and so I'm learning some of the municipal affairs pieces. I'm doing a bit of a crash course on it. But so far, it's exciting. It's a great team. And, just keen to get back to work.
00;03;14;08 - 00;03;29;21
Sara Goldvine
Yeah. So now you have more than a couple of years, just barely a couple of years under your belt. With the housing file, when you look back on that, what, what lessons did you learn and how are you bringing those into your expanded portfolio?
00;03;29;24 - 00;03;53;19
Ravi Kahlon
Yeah, there's, there's, a lot of lessons, and some challenges. I mean, people in the sector know it as well. And perhaps, there's a shift in our society, whether it's British Columbia, North America wise, every community, you know, I was talking to, a representative from Colorado, was up here. They're kind of equivalent to their minister of housing.
00;03;53;21 - 00;04;15;06
Ravi Kahlon
And we were talking and we actually had a chuckle because it's exact same issues being dealt with. You know, how do we get buy in from communities to ensure that we continue to support vulnerable people? How do we get buy in from people in community to for them to understand that housing is, central? It's key. Once you got people house, you've got some stability.
00;04;15;06 - 00;04;32;10
Ravi Kahlon
You can get them the other supports you need. So the lessons I've learned is that I have to be patient. And that's tough for me because, my nature is, 0 to 100. So I have to be patient in communities. But at the same time, I think, there's a real urgency. I heard it in the election.
00;04;32;10 - 00;04;59;28
Ravi Kahlon
People say, well, why are young people so frustrated? And I say they're frustrated because they don't see a pathway. They don't see the pathway that their families and their parents had. And so, you know, I'm really excited to be able to do two things. One, to land the changes we made to actually see them being enacted in community, even those, late stragglers that didn't do it but now are starting to do it.
00;05;00;02 - 00;05;24;14
Ravi Kahlon
And then second is the 2.0, because it's it was an important step to bring things to where it is now. But there are now additional things that need to happen. Maybe they're not as edgy as they were, as the first pieces, but we have more work to do, because in a day, you know, nothing is more frustrating for people than having five, six, seven years waiting for an approval for housing.
00;05;24;17 - 00;05;36;04
Ravi Kahlon
It just is unacceptable. Especially when it's affordable housing. And so, Yeah, I'm excited. I've got some ideas. And, I'm sure people are keen to share ideas, and those are always welcome. Well.
00;05;36;07 - 00;05;49;01
Sara Goldvine
Maybe you can let us know about some of those ideas. I mean, I think our listeners would be really interested to know what what are the priorities that you're going to be focused on in the next few months ahead? Is there anything that you can give us a sneak peek into?
00;05;49;03 - 00;06;10;14
Ravi Kahlon
I would say that the most immediate thing that I'm going to be focusing on is, a couple things. One is around infrastructure. How do we ensure that infrastructure is there in communities, whether it's water or sewer or whether it's the other amenities, but at the same time, ensure that projects can still get built? And so it's a big topic.
00;06;10;14 - 00;06;37;22
Ravi Kahlon
Obviously, it's a national conversation. And, and so that'll be the, the most immediate. I'm going to be meeting with Minister Fraser, and federal counterparts, meeting with Metro Vancouver mayors and mayors on the island and the interior. Just talking about this very question. The, additional pieces, I would say is, you know, the small scale multi unit changes that we brought in, have been adopted by 94% of the communities, but some haven't.
00;06;37;24 - 00;07;00;10
Ravi Kahlon
So putting some focus on the communities that haven't to make sure that everyone's doing their part. Same with transit oriented development. And then the next phase of, changes I think we need to bring is, not only ensuring that communities made the basic changes, but that they are making the kind of the more detailed changes, for example, small scale multi-unit.
00;07;00;10 - 00;07;19;26
Ravi Kahlon
And a lot of the listeners might be, you know, bigger, not for profits, and maybe they're operating in a different space. But, you know, we've got a lot of housing that we need. For example, for, new residents. And I think the six unit space is, really exciting space for folks to get into smaller projects, more accessible.
00;07;19;28 - 00;07;36;26
Ravi Kahlon
And so how do we ensure that we allow proper heights and setbacks and parking to, to make that? How do we ensure that we're allowing people to have strata in those units? So lots of energy going to be spent there? And we have some work to do, whether or not for profit partners as well. There's so much good work happening in the community.
00;07;36;26 - 00;07;59;02
Ravi Kahlon
And my concern is always about how do we ensure that the services for people are, being provided to them and that they're fueling the change? But also, how do we ensure that communities understand what we're doing and why we're doing it? Because what jumped out of me, looking at the US election and our election, I shared that at Housing Central.
00;07;59;02 - 00;08;19;10
Ravi Kahlon
Is that was it was surprising to me how many people don't understand what's happening or what's what not for profits are doing and what communities are doing to address the challenges they see the news, they see people are struggling, but they are not seeing the hope. They're not seeing the, the impacts that many of our partners are making on the ground.
00;08;19;10 - 00;08;34;05
Ravi Kahlon
So those are just some of the focuses in the next, I'd say 3 or 4 months. And, of course, we're waiting for our mandate letters from the premier on bigger changes there. And, when I have that, I'll be able to share the rest of the changes in a bigger way.
00;08;34;08 - 00;08;56;05
Sara Goldvine
Yeah, we look forward to that. In the meantime, though, as you mentioned, like, there's there's a lot underway. There's a long list of to dues, a long list of priorities. And also people are feeling the pressure now. So you're out on doorsteps, you're in community events, particularly over the last few months. What do you tell people who are frustrated and struggling with housing affordability?
00;08;56;07 - 00;08;57;10
Sara Goldvine
What do you tell them?
00;08;57;12 - 00;09;21;18
Ravi Kahlon
Well, yeah, it's it's really tough because people, have now become more conditioned to get the result right away. You know, like they wish there was an app for this. You just press a button, it would be done, but it's not. It's, housing takes time. You know, today we were at the opening of 337 units in South Vancouver, 220, Indigenous housing units.
00;09;21;18 - 00;09;41;19
Ravi Kahlon
So I think McCullough will be operating and, just over 120 co-ops. And, you know, if I were to go to people in my community and say, we need more co-ops and we need more housing, they would say, that's amazing. And today we're opening them. What I always say to folks is housing takes time. Unfortunately, we have to remove barriers.
00;09;41;21 - 00;10;10;05
Ravi Kahlon
And, and I think that bigger conversation we have to have is how do we separate the need for housing for, who actually is being housed? Because, you know, if you say this housing is for veterans, people line up and say, oh, it's great. You say, this housing is for, nurses and doctors. And I say, oh, it's great the moment you say, this is for lower income folks, or it's for people who are vulnerable or people who, or supportive housing.
00;10;10;07 - 00;10;32;14
Ravi Kahlon
The mood changes, the tone changes. And so that makes me sad. But at the same time, it reminds me that it's our responsibility collectively to, to educate the population, to help, alleviate concerns when there's genuine concerns there. So the things I've learned along the campaign, I think will help. Well, not only myself, but my colleagues will help us be informed.
00;10;32;16 - 00;11;04;03
Ravi Kahlon
And the last thing says people don't have patience anymore. They want to see results. And I think that there's a real opportunity to really push, especially with our local government partners, to get to a place where we can get decisions and certainty faster. And so I that's a long winded answer, but, I, I watch the U.S. election closely, and obviously I was part of our election and seeing the elections around the country happened and, more determined than ever that, we collectively, can make progress.
00;11;04;03 - 00;11;08;06
Ravi Kahlon
We have to make progress, and people have to see it and feel it in their communities.
00;11;08;09 - 00;11;32;21
Sara Goldvine
I think I'd like to dig in. There is I mean, you touched on the importance of hope and also the challenge of stigma, particularly when it comes to delivering housing. And and we here at Let's Talk Housing know that you're someone who understands the power of storytelling. Why do you think stories are so important for really sharing with British Columbians the work that is underway, and why that's important for community?
00;11;32;23 - 00;11;52;06
Ravi Kahlon
Well, stories are key to who we are as human beings. We go back to as far as you want. Stories have been how we have, connected, people's lives to the things that are happening around them. And indigenous communities use stories to keep, history going. And, and so I think it's just foundational to who we are.
00;11;52;06 - 00;12;16;10
Ravi Kahlon
And, you know, I've been I feel like saying this too often to people, which is we need to tell the stories, you know, the, the young woman I, met with in Vernon who is, you know, proudly helping other vulnerable people when she was herself sleeping in a tent a couple of years ago. And she's working for the not for profit, that support to her, you know, people need that sense of hope.
00;12;16;10 - 00;12;38;14
Ravi Kahlon
Because when they get to the point where there's no hope, they say, well, why are we even doing this? And then that fatigue kicks in. And the only way we can counter fatigue in society, which is actually it's there, is with hope that the things we're doing are not necessarily that things are getting better, but that that the solutions are being brought forward, are helping some people.
00;12;38;16 - 00;13;00;20
Ravi Kahlon
And, and so, you know, this podcast, the stories other people have not for profits. We want to hear them. We want them telling them in public and in, in the media, because, you know, for a long time we've there was a thought among some partners that if we're just quiet, we just stay out of people's way and we don't bother them, they don't bother us.
00;13;00;23 - 00;13;17;17
Ravi Kahlon
And, and that's just not going to happen. That's just not the reality of the world we live in. We have to be proactive. And either we tell the story or the story will be told about us. You know, you're going to see a big focus from us on not only on more funding, not only on more dollars, but continuously creating to buy in.
00;13;17;20 - 00;13;38;27
Ravi Kahlon
We cannot solve the housing crisis without affordable housing, without serious investment, affordable housing. And so you'll hear me a lot talking about the private sector, because they have an important role in it. But we cannot lose, especially with the federal election coming up. We cannot lose the importance of the debate and the discussion to be including affordable housing.
00;13;39;00 - 00;13;43;15
Ravi Kahlon
And so that'll be the big thing I'll be doing, leading up to the federal election for sure.
00;13;43;17 - 00;14;07;15
Sara Goldvine
Love that. Focus on the story. It's going to be a few months ahead, right? Like it's going to be a challenging few months ahead and few years ahead in particular because of, as you mentioned, just the the challenge with delivering the scale of housing that is underway. It does it does take time. So when you're looking ahead, how are you going to stay energized to really continue to take on this challenge for British Columbians?
00;14;07;17 - 00;14;26;15
Ravi Kahlon
Yeah. You know, it's the people you meet that keep you energized. You know, in the emails you get, like, I get so many emails, I try to read as many of them as I can, but, you know, people like, I'm struggling. And can you get me this? Can you get me into housing? And then so I just remind you, got a lot of work to do and so that provides energy.
00;14;26;15 - 00;14;47;04
Ravi Kahlon
And I'm just an energetic person by nature. My teen hates that. But I'm always like, let's go, go, go. So, you know, the the privilege and the honor of having this role is that, I'm able to actually make a difference. And so while the moment is here and while I'm in this job, that's what I'll be doing.
00;14;47;04 - 00;15;08;02
Ravi Kahlon
And just excited to keep going. And, you know, it's not perfect. You know, people who are listening to this, know that it's, there's a lot of work to be done that there's still a lot of pressure points in our communities. But I do believe that if we work collectively, we'll be able to address it. And by the way, I get messages from people across North America.
00;15;08;04 - 00;15;35;05
Ravi Kahlon
And the consistent message I hear is the the work that's happening in British Columbia is leading edge. And and they're not talking about the government. They're talking about not for profits. They're talking about BC housing. They're talking about fault leaders that we have out here. And so, you know, I think part of our work also has to be picking up our head and reminding ourselves once in a while that there's some amazing things happening here, and then putting our heads down and getting back to work again.
00;15;35;07 - 00;15;54;16
Sara Goldvine
Thank you. Mister, I'm going to squeeze in one final question. You mentioned your father. So when you when you look ahead to the type of society that you want, you want your son to have when he's your age, what do you hope the legacy will be for the work that's underway right now in housing for his generation?
00;15;54;19 - 00;16;20;03
Ravi Kahlon
Wow. You went, you went heavy there. My kid? No. You know, with any kid child, they know how to push your buttons. And so he'll come home and, like, have you tell the housing crisis that. What are you guys doing over there? And, and so I would say that when I hear people say, oh, that dream of homeownership is dead, or, you know, I'll never be able to afford a place here, rent a place here.
00;16;20;06 - 00;16;41;03
Ravi Kahlon
I think that is what I want to be able to change. I'd love for in four years from now. And I know this is hopeful, but, four years from people saying, you know, I see hope. I see that there's a pathway. I see that that we're making progress. And I know it will be easy because we have a lot of headwinds, you know, where there's always a new thing coming at us.
00;16;41;05 - 00;16;59;26
Ravi Kahlon
New curve ball. But, you know, today, when we were opening up these new units, it reminded me of the investments that we made in 2018 are now finally starting to open up, and it's finally coming through the phase one of the community housing fund stuff is coming through. And then we know there's a lot more coming behind that.
00;16;59;26 - 00;17;09;10
Ravi Kahlon
And so we're going to see more and more people coming in and getting into housing. And I think, you know, making sure that people have that hope in four years is what I'm looking forward to.
00;17;09;12 - 00;17;19;21
Sara Goldvine
That is a wonderful message of hope to be leaving us on today. Minister, thank you so much for carving out the time in your schedule to join us here on the podcast today. Let's talk again soon.
00;17;19;23 - 00;17;39;20
Ravi Kahlon
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, Sarah. And I want to say a big thank you to you. You've been a big part of the BC housing team. I don't want to get you emotional, but just to say, since I've come in this role, I've known you on the other side, of the other the screen or the meetings, and the work you've done and the contribution you made has been tremendous.
00;17;39;28 - 00;17;57;23
Ravi Kahlon
And I know you're not done. You're still in the housing sector space. And your new organization is lucky to have you, but, I want to say a big thank you on behalf of, Province. The people that perhaps, don't have a chance to say this, but thank you. Thank you for the work you've done. And, hopefully you're doing a podcast at your new place as well.
00;17;57;23 - 00;17;59;19
Ravi Kahlon
And you'll invite me.
00;17;59;21 - 00;18;14;13
Sara Goldvine
Oh, thank you so much. I mean, it's honestly, it's it's an honor to be able to do this work and in particular, to be able to do it for somebody who understands the the power of of work that includes story and communications. So thank you. Thank you so much.
00;18;14;15 - 00;18;16;22
Ravi Kahlon
We're we're going to miss you. But you're not going for I'm not going for.