From Fear to Facts: SLP Concerns About Praxis, CCC, and Supervision

SLP fear is real, but facts are louder. In this Fix SLP Podcast episode, Dr. Jeanette Benigas, SLP, and Preston Lewis, MS/SLP, unpack the top fears heard daily: Praxis retakes, reinstating the ASHA CCC, supervision requirements, getting overlooked by misinformed employers, whether CCC status affects international portability via the Mutual Recognition Agreement (MRA) with the UK, Canada, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand, and how employer education, not court battles, drives SLP autonomy and better jobs.

This episode shows how to turn fear into facts: evaluating your local job market, approaching HR about removing CCC requirements, clarifying supervision rules, and proving that patient outcomes, not extra letters, define true competence in the field.

Thank you to our sponsor, ⭐️ Informed Jobs, ⭐️ connecting SLPs with meaningful job opportunities and career resources to keep you informed and empowered. Explore more at informedslp.com. Just click the menu, then select "Jobs"!

🦺 Employer Education resources
🦺 Episode #89: ASHA CCC Reinstatement - Facts, Fear, and What You Actually Need
🦺 Episode #82: How ASHA Built a Monopoly in Speech-Language Pathology, and Why We Filed a Federal Complaint

🚧 Want to earn some PDHs or CEUs with a discount? Find our most up-to-date promo codes and discounts here.
🚧 We want to collaborate with YOU. If you would like to lead or join your state team, please email your name and state to [e-mail].
🚧 Become a sustaining partner to support our work.
🚧 Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube.
🚧 Find all our information at fixslp.com, and sign up for our email list to be alerted to new episodes and content.
🚧 Email us at [e-mail].
🚧 Leave a message on our Minivan Meltdown line!

★ Support this podcast ★

Creators and Guests

Host

Jeanette Benigas, PhD/SLP

Host of Fix SLP

Host

Preston Lewis, MS/SLP

Co-host of Fix SLP

What is Fix SLP: Advocacy & Accountability in Speech-Language Pathology?

Fix SLP is an SLP Podcast by Dr. Jeanette Benigas about advocacy, autonomy, and reform in Speech-Language Pathology. This show exposes credentialing gatekeeping and dismantles CCC requirements. Each episode equips SLPs with tools to reclaim their profession. Subscribe now and join the movement transforming speech-language pathology. Follow @fix.slp on Instagram and TikTok. Visit fixslp.com.

Jeanette Benigas 0:03
Welcome to the Fix SLP summer school series where we're schooling the system all summer long. If you're ready to challenge the status quo in speech language pathology, you're in the right place. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode, and if something fires you up, leave us a message on the minivan meltdown line at fixslp.com grab your favorite summer beverage and let's get to work.

Preston Lewis 0:26
Welcome back, everybody. Preston Lewis, the Public Policy Director for Fix SLP, joined by Dr. Jeanette Benigas, and today's episode is brought to you in part by Informed Jobs. Go to the informedslp.com check out that more tab. Drop down. Find Informed Jobs. That's where you're going to find that curated list of jobs that are real. They have been vetted, and they're high quality, and they exist. And it's always so exciting to see SLPs finally have a place that they can go to in an online setting at the informed SLP, which already provides a brilliant array of products for continuing education, but now is in that job space, and we talk about it a lot, but there, we're glad to have them as a sponsor. But more than anything, we're just glad to have them in our field. Yeah, great to be in conversation with you today. Jeanette, it's been a a difficult week across the United States as we crossed another anniversary for the attacks on September 11, 2001.

Jeanette Benigas 1:29
Yeah

Preston Lewis 1:30
There was political violence this week, another school shooting, and we're always mindful of the pain that is out there from people who feel just kind of part of this growing divide in our country. Yeah, and we recognize that sometimes people come to our movement from different places of the spectrum as well. But I think more than anything, we recognize that now is the time that we should have a safe place to have our thoughts and discussions and get away from fears, fears of political persecution, fears of violence, fears of retributions and retaliations in our field. So I'm proud that Fix SLP remains a safe place for people to have that conversation.

Jeanette Benigas 2:12
Yeah, I wanted to acknowledge too. You said that so well. When I told you what I wanted to talk about and what I wanted to acknowledge before we started, you did that great. So thank you. The one thing that I wanted to say that you didn't just say is that we feel the heaviness in our house. We're having conversations about our kids going to school that we don't feel are secure enough. But you know, we're we're talking about these things in our house, and it's heavy. And I recognize that probably the CCC and ASHA membership is not the biggest concern of SLPs right now. We get that there are so many more things going on in this world right now that are heavy and upsetting in many ways for many different people, and so we acknowledge that, and we know that this isn't your number one concern, but thank you for coming and listening and continuing to be part of the conversation, and when you're ready to hop back in and be with us, we'd love your action, but also maybe we're a good distraction. Maybe you could get fired up about something else, because I'm always fired up, so come on over. We'll have a chat.

Preston Lewis 3:19
All great change begins at the dinner table. Yeah, that was a quote from a very beloved ex president, and I think you said it very well a minute ago, that we have to kind of pull together as families and communities first.

Jeanette Benigas 3:31
And we need to take care of ourselves. I was sharing with the team earlier on text that I follow someone on social media who reports news in real time, and he does a good job of, you know, not saying the names of people who commit these awful, heinous crimes, and really highlighting victims, whether they live or not, so that their names aren't forgotten. And I think he's doing really good work. And and last night, he came on and said, I can't do this anymore. I have to step away. I'll be back hopefully tomorrow, but I am done. The all the quote, the all the text said was I am done, and I don't I don't blame him. So just as a reminder, make sure everybody's taking care of themselves. And if you showed up this week to hear us, thanks for being here. Preston and I often struggle with what to talk about every week, because we don't want to say the same things over and over again to you, but we want to continue to have discussions about what's happening in our field. And so I have been very sensitive to what y'all are saying to us in the comments, and I've been noticing a theme of fear, which we have acknowledged out loud More times than not on this platform, that there is a culture of fear in this community. SLPs are afraid. There are a lot of things that SLPs are afraid of, but at the top of that list, when. It comes to our profession, the fear is of ASHA, and that's I think it's getting better thanks to us and the work all of you are doing. But it is still there. It is still real, and we need to keep talking about it. And so what I've been saying to people, as I see these comments, is, well, what are you afraid of? Because putting these fears out in the open and talking about them is important, because fears are valid. We have those for a reason. That's our body telling us something's wrong, fight or flight, our body's doing what it's supposed to be doing. So why are those fears there. So let's get to the bottom of it and talk about it, because some of those fears and concerns are very justified. Some of them are a result of the rhetoric and the lies and the gaslighting we've all heard or undergone for decades, or are the result of misinformation, and so most of the time, people do not respond to that. And I'm not being challenging. You hear my voice. I'm saying, let's talk about it. Let's get to the bottom of this. Because if you have that fear, so does somebody else. And so yesterday, I know my Fixer husband, so Well, I knew this man was not gonna look at my Instagram stories, so I went to stories, and I asked you all about your fears, and sometimes you guys respond to things in droves, and sometimes you don't respond at all. And I was really hoping that yesterday was one of those times when you responded and droves, and holy cow, have you guys come out to play. So I was sharing your responses all day yesterday. In the stories, our stories, we have a ton of engagement. A regular post or real can get over 50,000 views. I can see on our stories that as of right now, like that original post, I can see has less than 1300 views. So many of you haven't seen this stuff, so we're going to get this together in a reel, and we're going to talk about it all today so we can reach more people. And so my plan was I'm going to post these and then I'm going to ask Preston to respond to them, because he hasn't seen them and he hasn't seen my answers, and then if our answers don't match up, or if there's missing information, then I will just jump in and fill in the gaps. And also, we have resources for a lot of these things. If we don't have a resource, then it's something we maybe need to think about developing so we can continue to address fear. So you ready, Preston?

Preston Lewis 7:35
Yes, I was you said, let's jump in. I could hear Eddie. I could hear Eddie Van Halen in my head. So yes, let's go!

Jeanette Benigas 7:43
Preston, the first fear, even though I put it in stories as the very first thing, it probably came in 15 more times, is the Praxis. I got various responses of just the word praxis. I'm afraid to have to take the Praxis again. I'm afraid I would fail the Praxis. I'm I fear the Praxis. Yeah, what are our thoughts on that?

Preston Lewis 8:11
Well, I I sort of wonder, like you've seen those polls that indicate what are people's biggest fears, and the number one biggest fear that people have is public speaking. Number two is death. So the old joke is, is that you would, you know, rather be in the coffin than giving the eulogy at the funeral. But I have to think, if you're giving that list, that the Praxis or standardized testing would probably be in the top 10 of people's biggest fears. And yet, I suppose this sort of thought exercise a couple months back when Praxis was front and center in issue, set of our community, you had taken it twice, right? Yep, first time you had to, you know, didn't meet the bar, and you had to retake. I took it one time. And I think in my life, I took the AC T twice. I took the GRE. Were these things that I felt dread about. I personally didn't, but I'm empathetic to people who did. But I guess I would ask the people who fear it. How many times have you taken it and it's, I think it's just a fear that we might fail, and when it's end, it's a fear of rejection. But in the end, I have never met a single SLP, that said, Damn, I, I got through grad school and I took the practice five times and I never could pass it. So I'm, you know, now bagging groceries over at Aldi. I understand that that's there, but kind of like dealing with phobias, I have a phobia of, you know, really high places. And it's a phobia I worked on, I did a lot of desensitization on, and, you know, am I going to go on top of the observation deck at the Empire State? Building or in the CN Tower in Toronto. Hell no. But sometimes you have to think about those fears like you know, if I'm walking across a pedestrian bridge over a ravine, I have to ask myself, in the 200 years that this bridge has been here, 150 years, has anyone ever fallen off this bridge? Has this bridge ever failed? No, it hasn't. So that's what I would say to people that have that fear of this test. Is that fear rational? Because that really is the psychological approach here, and we can get into the Praxis, but I look at this as like a phobia like any other, and if you want to let your phobias force you into a relationship where you're going to pay $7,500 over the course of your career, for somebody saying, Oh, you're competent, well, okay, you can do that. Or you could actually face your fear and try to live beyond something and not just pay to validate that fear or to avoid that fear.

Jeanette Benigas 10:53
Yeah, let's go to the next one. I might need it in the future, and it's going to be hard to get it back. It as in the CCC.

Preston Lewis 11:02
It's the Praxis test. It's a little bit higher penalty fee to reactivate. But Jeanette going on about the educational standards, you're kind of where you were is where you were. You can't, you know, it doesn't change. Maybe it did long time ago, but we've sort of unmystified that one. And so, I mean, if you think you need it back, I mean, and this is the thought process that I went through. And, you know, certainly Praxis could be an element for me if I was to relocate. But, you know, I sort of thought, Why would I go back if there's an employer out there that can't delineate what this thing really is, then is that an employer that's really kind of forward looking? So I think that as a veteran, SLP, which most people that would be asking themselves this question would be, or at least have some years of experience, why would you want to go back? And if you did, you pay the penalty and you take the test.

Jeanette Benigas 12:02
Yeah, you're unless you live in Hawaii, you're already keeping up your CEUs, so you'll, you'll already have that taken care of. That's the third piece. So we actually have a resource for this. We have done a reinstatement podcast, actually, not that long ago. I will link that up in the show notes, but we talk about everything that's required to reinstate and we talk about the myths that are no longer the case. We do hear stories a lot of people having to take college courses, and those only come into play when you've never held the CCC. And we will be addressing that in content coming up. There are going to be standards changes. ASHA has announced 2028 as the year that those will occur. So I think if they haven't come out with them yet, I haven't looked, we will be able to look at what those are and help you with some informed decision making if you've never held the CCC, because we have a lot of new grads in that situation right now who are trying to decide, and so by 2028 that would be the time you would be making a more permanent decision. So that's a podcast for another day, but you're not retaking coursework, you're not redoing a CF. All of those things are if you've never held the CCC. But it's actually not that hard to get the CCC back. It's actually a savings if you're going to be without it for more than three years. So let's go to the next one. Preston, this person said I already dropped mine, but before I did, my fear was my confidence being questioned.

Preston Lewis 13:38
Wow, that's kind of like the signature thing that we hear about. How do I sign my name? And, you know, I just sign my name and SLP, and I have never thought of myself as competent based on something that ASHA hands out to me. I have told this story to Jeanette, and we can talk about it today. I read a while back somebody said, Well, it'll delegitimize my practice. You know, I won't be seen as competent in my third I think I was probably about 12 years in as an SLP, I got divorced. And the only time over the 12 years of practice did I ever, I never had a patient. Ask me what that meant. I never had a colleague. Ask me what that meant. SLPs knew, but, you know, okay, so what? The only time I was ever asked about it was by my ex wife's divorce attorney, and she was just trying to establish some things about my career. And she said, What is a certificate of clinical competence? And I remember at the time, I was like, it's something I pay for every year that I don't know why I pay for it, you know, it's just something we all have to do. And that was, of course, pre-fixer me, but it was rather telling that in the course of 12 years of being an SLP, the only person that ever asked was my ex wife's divorce lawyer in court. Yeah, so I mean, I don't Wow. I look at yourself as an individual. Look at yourself from your clinical outcomes. Look at yourself from your patient satisfactions. You're but you're buying letters at the end of the day. Do I feel like I'm a better Wheel of Fortune player because I bought more vowels from Vanna White. No, it's a construct, you know.

Jeanette Benigas 15:26
And you know, there's some of us who don't care what other people think, and then there's, there's some people who were just created differently that you very much do care what other people think. And so I think out of the three we've done so far, this is the one that really like, gets me in in the gut, and makes me feel for people who feel this, because it's real, because, especially since we've talked about this before, we work in a profession full of women and women judge each other, right? And so there's this hierarchy of, I'm better than you because, because, because. And what was shocking to me when this platform started and Preston, this was even before you were the amount of women who reached out to us, never a man, the amount of women who reached out to us and said, I have never had the CCC, or for whatever reason I lost my CCC, or or whatever. You know, they had kids, they it was going to be too hard to get it back, or, or whatever. In those times, these were all more seasoned clinicians that we were hearing from. I have always had to hide that I don't have my CCC because of the repercussions and reactions from my colleagues that I have lived decades hiding that I don't have this thing because other SLPs judge me, and I don't want to go through that emotion of not being good enough. It's real. The number was shocking, and then always followed up with a thank you for bringing this to light and making this a safer place for me to practice. And for the first time in decades, I feel like I can be the professional I am without putting the value on these letters after my name. So this is real. This is a culture that is real. And what I say to this is, we are changing the culture. Me, Preston, our team, all of you, we're changing this culture. We all know now cat's out of the bag. We can't go back unless ASHA changes the requirements for the CCC, which they're they might do, but they only make them easier. They don't make them more challenging. So unless they do that, which is never going to happen, we are all now understanding that we can be an excellent clinician without the CCC, and that it doesn't make us more competent, and we just need to keep spreading that word so we are seeing more acceptance, more understanding, more of what we want in a community of colleagues and professionals, and less of this judgment. And are we still going to see that from some older clinicians, more seasoned clinicians who came up in a time when you had to have them and can't fully understand what we're doing here, sure, but that's going to be the minority, not the majority. So we all just need to keep doing the work of educating other people about what this thing is and what it does and does not say about our competence. Like Preston said, Let the record speak for itself. If you are a good clinician, you own a private practice, do you have a wait list? Okay, so that one parent who knew what the CCC was, I don't know. Okay, bye.

Preston Lewis 18:53
I never found them. I never found a single one.

Jeanette Benigas 18:55
Yeah, no. In my fees practice, I have had multiple referrals where people call and want me to scope their their parent, because they work with someone that I scoped their parent and did such a good job and help them in such a way that they want that same outcome. No one asks me about the CCC right in the schools. Are you advocating for your student in an IEP meeting and showing your intelligence of the law and the rules and how you can help and making a difference for that kid, that's what parents are looking for, right? So lean into that, like Preston said, Let your record show, and you should be fine. But this one is one that I get. It's real, and SLPs have struggled with this for years, and all I can say is that the culture is changing, and every year this is going to be less and less of a thing, which I'm if Fix SLP, does nothing else. I'm glad that it makes it a safe place for people to practice and not feel judged because they don't pay for a product every year. All right, Preston, let's go to the next one. This person has. Had two fears. I think we sort of covered this. First one, part of this can apply to what we just talked about, but the two fears were, one, that I can't supervise, and two, that I will be overlooked by a future, misinformed employer.

Preston Lewis 20:17
So let's start with the second one, okay, getting overlooked by an employer? Yes, there are going to be some organizations out there where the hiring person could be a crusty SLP that was of a different generation, and if that is part of their decision process, it could hurt. They really could, but there are many organizations that are trying to fill a need, and they are trying to help their patients and serve a population for them, if it's a private practice, person who is just in the healthcare sector and is not an SLP and doesn't really see that, it's going to be a non factor. That's why we see more of those jobs that are posted at places like the informed SLP. On informed jobs, the data is bearing that maturation out. It's it's a valid concern. I think so too in some settings and places, I still think that it is. And I heard from a SLP in my home state last night, and had a great email exchange. People have to get there on their own through this, believe me, I feel great. It's wonderful, because I just feel like I've kind of gotten out of a something kind of dirty and just didn't, hadn't mean any meaning. But everyone has to get there on their own, and you have to be confident where you are in your career, and to say, I I can move past this, and if I have to go back, you know, for some reason I can go back, because I don't, I'm not gonna let my fears rule me. So I would say that on the part about the employers, I'll let you wait on that, and then we can talk about supervision.

Jeanette Benigas 21:53
Jeanette, I said the same thing. This is a valid fear. And there was another one that I haven't posted yet, who said I will eventually let my CCC go. I just don't think there are enough jobs available yet for that to happen. And so, yes, this is a thing. It's a concern. You need to look in your area to see what kind of jobs are available. If you need to change jobs, does it look like you're going to be able to find something that you need to look at that like I said informed decision making. I said this at the beginning. Informed decision making is important. As you're making this decision, you need to do what's right for you. We get a lot of flack that we tell people to keep drop their CCC. Well, yeah, no, we're not telling you to drop your CCC. We're telling you do your research, right? And so you do need to look into that. That is a legit thing that you need to look at. If you've been at your job for 20 years and you you don't see that you're ever going to be leaving, let that thing go. Let that sucker go. You're fine. But that comes back to what I just said with the last fear is that we all have to educate we all have to do our part to educate recruiters and the people doing the hiring and HR departments and asking them to lift that restriction one time and getting a no is not where this story ends. The story ends when every quarter you're asking again and you're giving more information and you're educating more this is a process. I keep saying it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. We have to continue to put in the work if we want to see our field change. I've said this from the beginning. If ASHA is not going to do it, fine, we will. That means we actually have to do it, and the education of employers is the number one way, the number one way that we get our autonomy back. It's not taking ASHA to court. It's not all these other things that we talk about. The number one way we make change is changing the job market. That's it. Change the job market. To change a job market, you you listening? Have to educate people. We have employer education resources at fixslp.com, I was recently notified that for some reason, Texas isn't in the list. There shouldn't be a list. I have to go in and look at that, but I will get that resolved. It is just a standard letter at this point. You do have to put in your email. We're not spamming you. It's just because I'm holding those resources in a way that you need to be able to download them, and our our website isn't conducive to that. When we have our new website, you won't have to do that. They will just be readily available for download from our new website. So please go look at those. We will also link those up in the show notes for to link you directly. You can write a letter. You can have a conversation. If you have something better, share it with us. We didn't write that letter our friend Brooke Richardson did of the modern Med, SLP and breathe. Hab, she's awesome. So thank you to her for doing that. Dozens of people have used those resources to get these requirements changed, so we all need to be doing that. All right. Supervision. Preston, what do you think?

Preston Lewis 24:57
Yeah, so I'm going to say this, and I. Preface it by saying it's probably going to rub some of our audience a little bit the wrong way. And I'm not trying to be caustic here, but this is a point where I've heard for the last even pre-fix SLP, people saying we need to unionize. We need more collective power. We need to do things that'll break this cycle of productivity and low reimbursements, and really finding our worth to do that in a profession, we have to sometimes say, No, we have to sometimes draw a line. We have to say, Gee, I might not just be doing the nicest thing. And my attitude about this is, if you are holding on to that simply because you feel like you want to continue to give back to the profession, that's That's very nice, but you are also maintaining a status quo there, and you're letting somebody keep you in a catch 22 because they know that that is the House of Cards upon which the certificate of clinical competence is built. And for the people that say, gosh, if we all started doing this, what's going to happen to those students? The answer is, there's going to be a call to action and ASHA is going to get off their ass. And finally, have to say, do we want to be the person or the entity that is log jamming our profession. Now they may try to say, well, it's these rebellious, you know, plucky SLPs out there. And you can try that. But at the end of the day, you are the one who is the gatekeeper. Here you are the one who has got this rule in place, so you can keep 99% of your SLPs fixed into this cycle. And you know what? At some point somebody has to say, calf rope. That's an old saying in Texas. I've had enough. You know this is to know more. And I recognize that might seem bloody cold, but if you want to be the profession that does things collectively, that fights for bigger wages, that fights against productivity sometimes you have to swing a heavier hammer. We as a profession have not done a great job at that, and I'm glad to see that there are some people that are now saying, we don't we do have to make some of those tough decisions, folks. I mean, this gets to some of our core basic psychology of people pleasing, of trying to make everybody else happy. You know that that's going to keep you cycled into a period where you're going to accept less. So that's my opinion. I know that's going to not meet everybody where they are, but I stand by.

Jeanette Benigas 27:35
So I was a graduate program coordinator, which included finding five placements for students all over the country. This was an online program, and I took over that job, April 13, ish of 2020, so go look at a calendar and see what was going on worldwide on that date, and because this was an online program, people had to do all rotations all over the country, and things were happening in states. Rules were different, and I had to find placements for these people so they could graduate. And you know what I did? And you know what ASHA did during that time? They made some accommodations. They made accommodations. They accommodated the allowance of teletherapy for hours. They figured it out for people. And so here's what I wrote. I'm just going to read it. I said, Remember the supervision requirement is a university one, not an ASHA CAA one until we all this is what Preston just said, until we all put the pressure on and say, no more we will keep ourselves captive to the system that we want out of ASHA has solutions to purchasing the CCC-A without CCC-A supervision at the graduate level for audiologists. Why do you think it's not open to SLPs? They have the system in place for supervision to happen at the university level without the supervisor having the CCC-A. They have that in place for people who graduate and want to purchase the CCC-A, but can't because they didn't get that supervision. There's a process in place that they can follow to go then get get stuff done, and I don't even think it costs them money there. There is a pathway wide open for us to take. The reason ASHA does not open that up to us is because they're not feeling the pressure to yet. So what Preston said, until we all start saying no, and as an educator of students, I also deeply understand the implications of this recommendation coming out of my. Mouth. Stop supervising, stop saying yes, this is a temporary pause on the thing that some of us love to do for the future of the profession. That's it. Universities will figure this out. ASHA will figure this out. ASHA has a way. ASHA has a way, but they're never going to open that way, because it's going to hurt their revenue stream. The only way it's going to change is if these students can't apply for the CCC, because that will also hurt their revenue stream, and also it is illegal for a third party, private company to impact one's ability to work in the United States of America. So this brings in a lot of other issues that if people graduate and can't get the CCC because of ashes, requirement of supervision by someone with the CCC to purchase that product, and now someone can't get employed. Guess what? They're going to get rich just suing ASHA because they got through school, and now they can't get a job, and a third party company is impacting their ability to be employed in the United States of America. We have a podcast on that. I will link it up in the show notes, and with that, Preston, I'm having a really good time doing this. I think this is a great episode. We are halfway through. I might be getting braces, so I gotta go check that out right now. We have to stop. So do we want to try to meet later on this weekend and finish this up?

Preston Lewis 31:47
Do I want to spend more time with Jeanette this weekend? That is the question, and perhaps we do need to have a second conversation. Okay, I don't know if it'll happen today, but it's gonna for an ex politician answer.

Jeanette Benigas 32:02
you have jokes, is it gonna happen today?

Preston Lewis 32:05
I still believe

Jeanette Benigas 32:07
Preston and I, we're gonna pause here. We are gonna come back, potentially in different clothing and different levels of energy, because I am on Adderall right now, kids, but I do crash. So we'll see. We'll come back for a part two of this later on in this episode, and we'll finish this thing up.

Jeanette Benigas 32:31
All right, everybody, we're hopping right back in. It's a different day, a different situation. Hopefully we bring the same kind of energy and reflection. But here we go.

Preston Lewis 32:44
I'm shocked by that I always bring the same energy I you know, if I didn't, then our audience would be very disappointed.

Jeanette Benigas 32:52
My energy wanes depending on the day and how much seed oil I had the night before.

Preston Lewis 32:59
Careful seed oils these days are kind of a controversial thing with...

Jeanette Benigas 33:02
I know I'm getting... who knew I would get controversial on the platform. All right? The next one says, honestly, not ready to drop them yet. So much imposter syndrome. I will get there, though.

Preston Lewis 33:17
Well, there are different ways to look at that for a lot of SLPs, myself included, for a while there is that just fake it until you make it. And it probably took a year of me just kind of wandering through the aimless desert of really terrible copies of the leader, awful notes that I had from, you know, professors that I had that had no practical clinical application where I was and trying to say, Okay, well, this is Hello, Mr. Jones. This is how we do speech therapy. And Mr. Jones saying, you know, get the hell out of my room, until I realized that there are functional ways upon which I could find things that worked, and a lot of those things, I found myself, everybody's going to have a different journey. But I'm assuming what this SLP meant by imposter syndrome is that fake it till you make it. And that is a longer window for some people in this field. For me, it was about a year, and then you realize, okay, I can do this. I was trained to do this. I do know the inner workings of the anatomy. I understand the etiologies behind these things, and you find your clinical groove. However, there was never a point for me, Jeanette, and perhaps granted, I am different than many SLPs in a very fundamental way, but I never thought about myself as finding identity based on three letters that, you know, I was told in graduate school, oh, well, you just got to do this like as if it was a license. I just, I didn't really understand the delineation of it, but I stood by my training. I stood by my. Instincts. I stood by the outcomes that I was seeing day to day. And I never thought, gee, if somebody took these letters from me, would that really matter? You know, what does that mean at the end of my signature? Other than I'm, like a lot of other SLPs, that that's the thing that gets me sometimes, when I look at these conferences where, you know, they're going to talk about speech language pathology, and every person is MS/CCC-SLP, CCC-SLP, and it's like, I don't know, after a while, I feel like we're a bunch of lemmings. Where are the distinction on this? Do we all just march along with this same drumbeat? And what does that drum beat mean? We don't have a national licensure, and I think a lot of SLPs may still be under that illusion, but I you know if you're if your imposter syndrome is hiding behind the letters, I really think that that's something you should work through professionally.

Jeanette Benigas 35:53
Mm, hmm. Yeah, this person said, I'll get there, though. So yeah, you hit on what I I was gonna say, not so much. The first part, I think this person maybe was or is, and we're just assuming because it doesn't explain. But you know the feeling of, what will I be without the CCC? What will they do when they find out and that the CCC is maybe giving a false sense of security? So here's what I wrote, you're already braver than you think. Imposter Syndrome just means you care enough to do well, and that strength will carry you when you're ready. Yeah. And then I just suggested, in the meantime, think about waving goodbye to the ASHA membership. You can also, I didn't say this, but you can also start signing without the CCC, so you'll get there. All right. Preston, here's another one. I liked this one. I've been having a conversation with this person in DMS now I started a new job that requires them I'm afraid to speak up, because I already have such a big mouth. That's the fear, afraid to speak up new job.

Preston Lewis 36:57
I guess I would translate that as it's seen as a real bold move to do that, and or one that has a lot of bravado and you're outspoken, You're a pain in the butt at that point, it's just letters. It really is. It's, it's, once you understand that construct, I think that there's a difference. It's funny. I was talking with my daughter last week, who is in the eighth grade, and that's, that's a fun time. I mean, I wake up in a cold sweat thinking about adolescence, and she's gone, you know, into eighth grade, and there are those, those things that are difficult for her, you know, teachers that are very strict sometimes, and, you know, getting on to the kids. And she's a good kid, but she's a rule follower, and I find that the manners in which I've taught her, she's, you know, saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry all the time, and trying to really people please. And I had the conversation with her last week about the value of not being a doormat, not people pleasing all the time, and she asked me for some examples, which I always view as a good thing, that means she's listening. And I cited situations professionally where I took a stand at work and said, No, I'm not going to visit four skilled nursing facilities in one day and see all these people for 15 minutes of whack. It's just, it's not good clinical practice. It's not good for my own mental health. And my daughter was able to recall some of those times where I did take a stand and what I went through, because I talked about it at the time. And so I bring all this forward to say that, yeah, yeah, we want to be people who are affable. I'm an affable person. I tend to find the conflict is something that can be managed and to try to find consensus among people. But if you think that not signing some letters on your name, or, you know, changing your affiliation with a third party outside organization is going to be seen as being controversial or outspoken. Perhaps you need to be outspoken. Perhaps you need to be a little bit uncomfortable. Because I wonder if you are in that frame of mind, how do you feel about productivity? How do you feel about caseloads that are just so onerous that you know that you're not providing the best services. Not speaking to this individual clinician, their circumstances may be different, but I think for some that have that defense, they really should try to ask themselves, if I'm this guarded on this front, what else am I holding back on

Jeanette Benigas 39:38
I just joked around with this person. I said, maybe wait until your third week. But then I did say we kid definitely do not come in hot. We keep saying this is a marathon, not a sprint. You know, feel it out when the time's right, then just pounce. But you never want to go into a new job like that. You can know in your head, okay? Say this is something that's going to need addressed, but just wait, just you know that it's a problem. Don't wait forever, but you know, feel it out. Who's the right admin to go to. Do you have any allies there that you can do it together and get a strategy, get a strategy, and then, and then go do it. So that was our, my suggestion, I have this one and then one more. And this goes along with the theme of this the theme of this episode is, is fear. Obviously, that's why we're doing these. This person said grad school taught me to fear the field. I've been shocked at how different the culture really is. And I'll tell you, I said honestly, as a great profession, Welcome to the Jungle. But you know, it's it. We, we, I think, tend to highlight a lot of the negatives on this podcast and on our platform, because we're not here necessarily to make the field look bad, but it needs improved, and you can't make improvements if you don't take it head on. But we all love our jobs. That's that's why we're we're all employed, and that's why we're doing this, because we want to leave the field better than we found it. So we actually do like being speech language pathologists. But I'm so happy that this person said, I'm shocked at how different the real culture is, because I took that as sort of a positive. You know, grad school, like made me afraid for what I was about to enter. But I'm finding I don't need to be afraid. I don't know what, what's your interpretation of that?

Preston Lewis 41:42
It's difficult for me to flesh out the interpretation of what it was like for me in grad school versus, you know, this person. I mean, I can just drop the gloves for a minute here and take the gloves off and say, was it a culture of fear that I was taught in school, I would say no, but it was very much a culture of, you have to kind of kiss the pinky ring of a certain pecking order, and if you don't, then you're going to find a bunch of angry bitches that are ready to take you down. I mean, that was, that really was what it was. I mean, you know, well, I mean, I honestly, I mean, I was a student that you go back to, you know, me being just completely impressed into pediatric settings, multiple pediatrics not wanting to be there. I understand we all have to have a wide variety of clinical experiences during our grad school time. But just begging, please do not send me into this environment. And they just kept turning me in there. I had two public schools, I think, and like, three pediatric clinics. I mean, I was just really not feeling it.

Jeanette Benigas 42:50
Yeah, okay. I'm going to just read this one, because I want you guys to have the numbers, then Preston may have one, and I have one. I want to finish up with this person's fear was, Are there really SLPs out there who don't have their C's or who don't have the CCC, scared that I'll be the only one with no one to relate to, and I just said it's hard to know what's really happening out there when it isn't your personal experience. Here's what we know from our unofficial, very non scientific Instagram poll from the other day, and I pulled up the numbers and I just I put it on the response and from the people who responded just on Instagram, because we got responses on Facebook too, but I couldn't get a results icon that showed all of it. So just on Instagram, 117 clinicians said they're keeping their CCC, and the other two choices were, I'm getting rid of it, or I already have gotten rid of it. And collectively, those two were 94 clinicians. So that came out to 55% of respondents said I'm keeping it, and 45 said, I've either gotten rid of it or I'm going to now, is this representative of the entire field? No, and that there are plenty of people out there who are doing this. And remember, it's not forever. Last night, I recorded probably a bonus episode where someone reinstated for some really interesting reasons. And you know, you can get it back pretty easily, according to her, so if you find you need it or whatever, then you can, but there are plenty of people out there doing it. Sometimes you just need to be the first. Take the step forward and say, I'm the one who did it first in this area. And it's been fine. You know, follow the leader.

Preston Lewis 44:40
No, they're out there. And we do, we see these people. It is, I think, before the era Fix SLP, there. There were some out there, and they were kind of like finding the old, funky Volkswagen van out wanders down the highway. And it's like, wow, look at that. So people have done it before, and sometimes it's. Makes a pioneer. You know, somebody's gonna have to go to Oregon first.

Jeanette Benigas 45:02
All right, did you have one that you wanted to jump in with?

Preston Lewis 45:07
I did, because it this actually came in over the social media channels over the weekend, and I had one come in yesterday and actually bring it up and read it. It was something that I think some people might have in their mindset right now, if we drop our C's, does that mean that we forfeit competency reciprocity in other countries? Okay, so granted, everybody's experiencing current issues in our nation differently right now. But there are some people who think, you know, maybe, maybe I'll move, maybe I moved to Canada, or maybe, all you know, I know a friend that recently to get UK citizenship. And so how are you impacted if you decide to become a clinician in another country and seek licensure, and that's the key thing, is that you would be seeking a license, the certificate, and I've done some research on this, while it certainly can be used, just like if you move states, to maybe bypass some paperwork, you might not have to go find your college transcript, you might not have to explain what the coursework there was, or, you know, go to a meeting and present yourself or present a resume, the certificate can be used to bypass Some things, but it is by no means a guarantee of licensure, and in many cases, in fact, in most of the provinces in Canada that I've looked up, you will have to take an entry exam to get a license in those provinces. You would likely have to do that if you became a citizen in countries like England or Australia. We could sit here and flesh out every country in their situation and come up with the answers on that, but while it may save you a few steps, it by no means guarantees or conveys that you will get a license, and inversely, if you drop the CCC, it doesn't mean that you're forfeiting your ability to get a license, that that's a that's A misconception. I understand where it's born from, given our lived experiences and the way we've sort of been indoctrinated, but it is not the case. And the last thing that I would challenge there is, since we are covering new ground for people that say, I you know, could you might not be able to do this, we are challenging something in that on all of these situations, whether it's a state by state reciprocity, or it's a moving to a new country, yes, people say, you know, well, you can present the CCC, but this is an active CCC versus the fact that you'd earned it. That's what we encountered here in Arkansas, is it was enough just to present your attainment of one at one time, because that's really all that licensing boards are looking for, is that, did you do the things to attain your position, to become an SLP in this field, education, the testing that you took, the clinical mentorship or supervision, and yes, it shows that you did all those things after that. What does it show? It shows that your ability to pay $250 a year to ASHA in perpetuity, or 229 or whatever the hell they're charging now, just for the CCC, but basically we're looking at 250 bucks right now. That's all it shows. That's it beyond you know what your state license shows you. There is nothing else there. And so I think that it is very much a challenge for people that are moving across state lines in coming years without a CCC, or moving across the royal border into Canada to say, I can show you that I attained one. But what difference does it make if it's active or not? And that is a theory that has not been challenged yet, and I think that it is one that needs to be challenged and is very assailable.

Jeanette Benigas 48:43
So what Preston is referring to, and what this person who was asking is referring to, because ASHA is certainly leaning into this right now, as as they cue in on the pulse of what SLPs and Americans in general are doing. And so they are saying, well, you can have portability to other countries. And what, what Preston is saying is correct. What he's referring to is the MRA. And the MRA is the mutual recognition of professional association credentials agreement, and that allows certified full members of certain speech language pathology associations to apply for professional recognition by other signatory associations. So for example, if someone from one of these countries is coming to the US, they can apply for the CCC based on the the terms of this mutual recognition agreement, and then if they get the CCC, it is easier than to get a license in the state. It is not Full Reciprocity, where you automatically get your credentials to practice without any. Further assessment, or, you know, not having to meet local requirements. And interestingly, for as much as they advertise this, there are only six countries in the MRA, the US, Canada, the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. That's it.

Preston Lewis 50:19
Commonwealth nations. Again, all that that's going to do is save you some steps. That is not a you know, here, here's my CCC cards. Where's my license to practice in Alberta or in Saskatchewan or in Ireland, it is not work that way. And in many cases, you will need to take an entry to work exam. And that's okay, because we've talked about it, we can do this.

Jeanette Benigas 50:42
Yeah. And then the MRA application, at least for Speech Pathology Australia, because they are probably the closest thing to ASHA that exists out there. My assessment is they want to be ASHA. It's a weird kind of relationship. So spa does state on their application that your CCC in the US must must be current, or you must have membership of one of the other MRA associations. The one that I wanted to bring up to wrap this up, was two different commenters, and I think this is a really valid fear. The first one, I'm a freelance 1099, SLP, and I don't know what companies in my area will require the CCC, super valid. And then somebody else said, I'm worried that too many jobs still require the CCC, and I can't drop them yet. These are valid concerns. You have to do your research. Certainly, we are seeing this regionally. I know in Ohio, we're seeing less and less and less and less companies require the CCC. That's awesome, but you can't just sit around and wait to see what happens. You have to put in the work. You have to educate your employer. You have to educate those recruiters who are messaging you. And this stuff isn't hard to do. It takes a few minutes if you're getting those text messages from recruiters. We all have to take a step forward to make that change, just like in Michigan, our team, Michaela and Alexa, they changed Michigan Medicaid did that automatically mean everyone could let their CCC go? Absolutely not just because they changed a policy. Doesn't mean that, one, their employer was even aware, and two, that it was like, Okay, we're done. No, now the work begins of Michiganders having to show their employers the regulations, show them what's going on and make the change. So we all have to do this work. This is not Fix SLP fixing the profession alone. This is us, collaborating with everybody, guiding, everybody walking along beside you, and us doing the work together. And so in order for those things to open up, everybody has to do the work. So those are valid concerns. Everybody has to do their own research, inform jobs. Who's sponsoring this podcast today is a great place to go. Look to see what's required in your area, start looking around just because one employer requires it doesn't mean they all do, and just because it's in their job posting doesn't mean they won't consider you if you give them some information. So we're going to wrap there. Let's keep talking about this. What other fears are out there? Putting those fears out there, talking about them, debunking them, giving some encouragement, or saying, Yeah, this is, this is valid. You should look at that this. This helps the process along. So Preston, anything else before we go, nope. All right, everybody again. Thank you. Informed jobs. Go to informed slp.com, you can click the menu and then click jobs. Check out those postings. We are so grateful for their sponsorship this week. We'll see you next week. Thanks for fixing it.

Jeanette Benigas 54:08
Thanks for listening to the Fix SLP podcast. If this episode help you feel more informed or empowered, take a second to leave a five star rating and review it helps more SLPs find us Fix SLP runs on $5 sustaining partnership donations that small monthly support pays for everything behind the scenes, including our website, legal fees and advocacy work. Want to be a part of it. Join us at fixslp.com enjoy the sunshine. Stay scrappy, and we'll see you next time you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai