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Welcome to Strength Renewed, the podcast that celebrates new beginnings for women 40 and beyond. This is your go-to space for empowering conversations about building resilience, strength, and confidence—inside and out.
Discover how to fuel your body with good nutrition, train smart, and cultivate a strong mindset to thrive in midlife and beyond. Whether you're navigating hormonal changes, starting (or restarting) your fitness journey, or simply striving to feel your best, Strength Renewed offers expert advice, real-life stories, and actionable strategies to help you live a vibrant, powerful life.
It's never too late to redefine your strength.
Mikki Wiiliden (00:00.59)
And I've got, yeah, it should come, hopefully, hopefully. Lovely. Hi, how are you? Great.
Jess (00:03.583)
My recording is higher quality. Hi Max. I am doing very, very well. is like perfect, perfect temps here in Cali. Can't wait to come one of these days when you're not training for a high powered, high octane race, you will come and visit me this time of year in California.
Mikki Wiiliden (00:24.11)
Yeah, I know I know I'm in fact coming to California in November, although I'm not hitting not having San Fran unfortunately Manhattan Beach Which is like one of my favorite places to be god that sounds so wanky and I don't mean for it sound that way but
Jess (00:27.107)
Mmm.
Jess (00:30.659)
you're going to be in.
Jess (00:39.071)
No, I think it's a lot of people's favorite place to be.
Mikki Wiiliden (00:42.353)
Yeah, so lovely there. I'm a little bit sad because Hubster isn't traveling with me because he's run out of annual leave because of course we're doing, we're like, you know, when this comes out we would have either just finished or we'll be in the the head of it essentially. Yeah, and so he's taken up all his annual leave by doing these ridiculous events that he has no time to be able to just come and pop over to join me in Manhattan Beach, which was a bit of a shame.
Jess (00:57.431)
in the sand dunes.
Jess (01:09.953)
Are you going be there with Jill? Are you there for something else? Yeah. Her favorite spot. And you'll be there for a week or how long are you there for?
Mikki Wiiliden (01:13.546)
Yeah, with Jill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that'll be great. Yeah, exactly. I think about a week like from yeah, and I think I might see Hayley as well. So that'll be fun. Because no, she lives in Boulder, but she's coming out. And so it'll be lovely to see her and I think she might be might be doing a little podcast with Jill, which would be great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So
Jess (01:24.515)
Does she live there?
Jess (01:28.299)
okay.
Jess (01:38.636)
fun. Is that why she's coming out?
Mikki Wiiliden (01:43.246)
or she's coming out to meet me in person, which is lovely. And then it just was serendipitous that I was there for Jill. And she's like, great. Well, I can do two birds, one stone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jess (01:54.201)
Yeah, that works out. Perfect. That's good. You'll get, you'll get, but yeah, we had, was fun. I loved being with you there in January and she'll have a blast being with you there. It's just the purpose is pretty. It never gets old. I love it there.
Mikki Wiiliden (02:07.518)
never gets old, I know. And hopefully it'll be, the temperature will be lovely as well. The days will be nice too. Yeah.
Jess (02:12.557)
Mm-hmm.
The days will be nice and you will get to go on the beach and you will sleep very, very well because you'll probably be catching up on all of your, your body will be still in, how long do you take to recover from this long run? Like do like a week or two, how long do you recover for? mean, what's the normal recovery time in your ultra runs?
Mikki Wiiliden (02:27.625)
I hope not. I hope not, Jess.
Mikki Wiiliden (02:34.9)
I think that probably proper recovery might take three to four weeks. But you've got to be active in the lead up to that. I'm sorry, in the aftermath. So like if I were to do nothing, it's like running will be off the cards for a week to 10 days. I don't think I'll be particularly interested in running if I'm honest. I'm not interested now in running. So I can't imagine doing the event is gonna make me feel any, and I love running, know? But like literally, all I want to do right now is run like 5Ks or something.
Jess (02:38.894)
Mm-hmm.
Jess (02:44.131)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (03:04.905)
I'm like, just want to be out in the makeshift, but not for that long.
Jess (03:05.922)
Yeah.
Cause your average run right now is like three hours. What is it?
Mikki Wiiliden (03:12.278)
No, no, no it's not. I love that it's so hilarious that you think that in your head, like I can't imagine what you think it is.
Jess (03:18.425)
I mean, literally, I'm like, all I think of you is like, you're working and running. You're like Forrest Gump or something. I'm like, I can't even put in my mind because the mileage is so long. You know, and the race is long. For a person, look, I run half marathons, so I'm not, right? That's what I do. Or 5Ks.
Mikki Wiiliden (03:29.162)
Yeah, yeah, but you can't run that much.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and truthfully, it's like big weeks might be 100 Ks or like 60 miles, just over maybe 62, 63 miles, but like you only do them like a handful of times throughout your, I do at least, that we do. We only do them a handful of times throughout the training and a lot of the time during the week, the runs are anywhere from, you know, 45 to 90 minutes. And then in the weekend, that's when we do the longer runs slash hike and they can
Jess (03:40.653)
Mm-hmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (04:06.006)
a little bit longer for sure but it's not like some people have a big like good tolerance for big training whereas my body doesn't respond that well to that actually it just sort of breaks down a little bit so I have to be quite have to be mindful and you don't need to actually like the reality is like we're not there to do anything other than complete and and catch up with our mates so cannot wait for that so and just get amongst it you know and just
Jess (04:13.347)
Mm-hmm.
Jess (04:18.595)
Yeah.
Jess (04:29.943)
I'm
Mikki Wiiliden (04:35.926)
we just know it's just going to be hard. You know, that's just the reality of it. So as long as you're sort going in eyes wide open as much as you can, then that's all you can do really, I guess.
Jess (04:48.793)
Oh, for sure. Yeah. Eyes wide open. You will do it. you will, the adventure will be yours as most things are and you're going to do great. I'm excited to hear about it. But I am obviously clearly intrigued by it too. But yes, it's like completely from a person who's looking on the outside, I think most of you would probably be like, oh my gosh, just a lot of running. And I have no idea. Like at some point you just kind of get into like a rhythm in your head. You kind of have to, I mean, you have to.
Mikki Wiiliden (04:51.874)
Yep. Yep.
Mikki Wiiliden (04:58.816)
Yeah, yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (05:10.198)
Mm.
Jess (05:15.031)
you have to kind of get yourself there. It's like, again, I I do a different sport, so my sport is very different. But the mental, like the moment when it's really excruciating, you also have to like talk yourself into like a different mind, sort of in a different place psychologically to get there. But it's not long, but it is intense.
Mikki Wiiliden (05:17.88)
Totally.
Mikki Wiiliden (05:22.365)
100%.
Mikki Wiiliden (05:26.721)
Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (05:34.531)
Mmm. Totally. No.
Yeah, and it's just it's I think you've got to have those same skills. It just they just sort of manifest differently, right? It's just it's such a mental game like and it's and it's in for us It's putting in just knowing it'll take forever like and it's because we talk about it being running But actually most of it will probably be hiking so it's not there's not a ton of the the running but for you like it's short and sharp and that freaks me out like the idea of doing kettlebell snatches like a hundred kettlebell snatches I couldn't even imagine anything worse
Jess (05:52.686)
Mmm.
Jess (06:08.313)
I'm so glad that we are, sorry, there's a big ass raccoon that is currently outside of my door. They're so gross. I have no idea why just, why are you not afraid? But I'm just going to pretend. Cause I'm not afraid because I lift kettlebells a hundred times over my head. Not afraid of the raccoons. But I, yeah, there's a little bit of something.
Mikki Wiiliden (06:09.68)
Actually.
Mikki Wiiliden (06:15.537)
Mikki Wiiliden (06:22.542)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm! Mm-hmm.
Jess (06:32.569)
But that's probably why we picked the sports we do, right? Because they're just a little something like, have no idea how a person could run that many miles. And you're like, I have no idea a person can lift 100 snatches over their 53 pounds. Like how? But you get in it and it of makes you this kind of badass in your field. And here we are. We're both badasses in our field thinking we each other are a little bit crazy. I'm glad we found each other. But what you will need a lot of is sleep. I think that just tends to be everybody's favorite.
Mikki Wiiliden (06:36.27)
Mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (06:42.006)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (06:50.165)
Here we are.
There you go.
Mikki Wiiliden (06:58.954)
Mmm, 100%.
Jess (07:01.697)
I know we were talking on our last episode a lot about nutrition, obviously, and a lot about GLPs, a lot of mechanisms of action and all of these things. I think something in the quest to continue to have ownership over your health, we were talking about too the last time, is instead of being constantly emotionally hijacked, try being rationally hijacked by just what you can do, what is in your control. I hope. mean, for most people, you'd like to think that like...
Mikki Wiiliden (07:23.66)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jess (07:31.121)
most of the time sleep is in your control. understand when you're going through parameters, that's not always the case, but what are some kind of things in regards to sleep that are pretty much just critical for health? Top three.
Mikki Wiiliden (07:43.514)
I think ultimately, like because we could be sold so many different sleep supplements, know, like it in of itself could be like a billion dollar industry because, you know, we know how important it is. It's so important for recovery, so important for all of, for health actually, like you couldn't, but I think the thing to be mindful of is that you cannot like out supplement.
Jess (07:48.249)
Mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (08:09.647)
chaotic sleep habits at all. And in fact, you will get way more from dialing in your sleep routine than you will ever get from spending 120 bucks on a magic supplement because that supplement won't work. And I think we have to remember that a supplement is a supplemental to routine, to diet, to exercise, to our sleep hygiene. So...
Jess (08:11.267)
Mmm.
Jess (08:24.141)
Mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (08:34.977)
Yeah, so think actually dialing in a really good sleep routine is the most important thing that someone can do.
Jess (08:41.657)
And I always think about the easy ways to do that easy, some of my tips for myself is obviously keep the room relatively cool and dark. mean, blackout shades if you have them, but I always have some kind of fan going just because I don't wanna get too hot. And I've been trying, not always successfully, but if my bedtime is 11, I've been trying to go like 1050 or 1045 or just like.
Mikki Wiiliden (08:54.02)
Mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (08:59.779)
Mm-hmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (09:08.886)
Yeah.
Jess (09:09.843)
Back off a little, it doesn't have to be this great big thing, because I understand people's lives are busy and I tend to get the best of my stuff done in the evening. And so it's hard to pull away, but I don't know. And then maybe the conversation back to supplements. Are there supplements that might just help you with a better night's sleep? Magnesium is obvious, you know. Let's talk about the tips.
Mikki Wiiliden (09:17.231)
Mm.
Mikki Wiiliden (09:29.167)
Yeah, but I think what we need to dive into first, yeah, talk about the routine because you know a few, is, which, and I think a lot of us do, but...
But in fact, the routine I think is just so important. Even if you've got chaos in your house and you're getting, and the only time you've got is from 9 p.m. And you know you should theoretically be in bed, like even in that last hour, or even in your household, like the first thing is a light environment. And I think people don't know, but the brain gets a different message when lights above your head are on versus like having a lamp or whatever below your eye.
Jess (09:46.403)
Mm-hmm.
Jess (10:08.473)
Mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (10:11.181)
like it just sends a different signal to your brain giving you information about whether it's daytime or nighttime so having lamps that are on that are lower than your eyeliner is super important and orange toned if possible like it doesn't have to be expensive you can get you know light systems but we've got Philip Hughes lights which you can sort of use an app to change the color and change the change the tone and turn them on or off but I mean you
literally can get like a cheap lamp from Kmart like I have or Walmart and then put an orange or a warm toned bulb in to have. So I think the light environment for a lot of people is actually a huge one.
Jess (10:55.507)
I was thinking of like orange toned lights. where do I, I don't even know that I would even know. I guess I definitely did not know that. I assumed that the lighting, a lower light, overhead lighting, you know, is just enough to make anybody feel horrific. So to turn that off and to keep the low, but I don't know anything about the orange lighting. I just hadn't even thought about that. It's like a bulb. You put that in,
Mikki Wiiliden (11:08.239)
Mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (11:18.296)
Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (11:21.698)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, a warm, like it's just a warm tone, tone bold. Yeah. And, and I know that lots of people have, have to do their work in the evening time, but if they can do it with some blue light blocking glasses, and then if you are watching anything, like try not to watch it on your, like your phone screen, cause it's so, apparently even the activity of having like a phone screen up near your face is a little bit too excitatory for your brain. So the computer, like,
Jess (11:25.239)
Warm tone, yeah.
Jess (11:35.065)
Mmm.
Jess (11:49.837)
Mm-hmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (11:52.482)
a bit further away or a TV is just so much better than...
Jess (11:56.665)
that's interesting. So the distance of something is like, it has a different effect on... That's good. Yeah, I hadn't really... And how about the elusive question is, what's the right amount of sleep a night?
Mikki Wiiliden (12:01.751)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (12:11.681)
Yeah, like that is one of those questions, isn't it? Like seven to nine hours you always hear sort of bandied about, but if you consistently get less than six hours, that's when I feel like people can really start to, in my clinical experience, like there are people who are short sleepers, like genetically, but even short sleep is about six and a half hours. So it's not even that much shorter than what the sort of recommended average, but whatever you need to feel refreshed.
Jess (12:15.96)
Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (12:41.585)
and feel like you're recovered and your mood is fine and you're not and you're not prone to you know being emotionally hijacked and all the rest of it like these are really important indicators of your sleep habits I think.
Jess (12:58.201)
What about naps?
Mikki Wiiliden (13:00.143)
Yeah, apparently yeah, so any net from like 20 to 60 minutes Is enough to sort of like it does different like your sleep your brain does different things for the in a 20 minute net versus like a 60 minute net but 20 minutes is enough to sort of refresh a lot of that get that sort of Initial recovery going and actually it's it's often recommended but not after about four o'clock. So Being mindful of if you're napping the net earlier
the day rather than later.
Jess (13:31.799)
And it can just be, I always say something, but just close my eyes for like 15 minutes and just play in the dark. I don't even know if I fall asleep, but it just makes me feel restored.
Mikki Wiiliden (13:35.8)
Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (13:40.216)
Yeah, amazing. And there is something called non-sleep.
deep relaxation I think it is, NSDR. And you can Google these things on YouTube. But the most important thing is actually the routine of what we're talking about. So with the lights, the 45 minutes before bed, actually put your phone away. Have a warm shower. Have your magnesium glycinate at 45 minutes before headed to bed. Just get your body used to a certain routine.
Jess (13:57.016)
Mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (14:14.235)
your body starts to understand what happens next because so much of what we do is a circadian rhythm and you can absolutely entrain it and that's what a lot of people like if you're chaotic your sleep's gonna be chaotic.
Jess (14:17.144)
Hmm.
Jess (14:21.4)
Mm.
Jess (14:26.713)
Mm. That's actually so obvious, but not obvious. You know what I mean? Like, it's true. I just didn't even... I guess it is really important. Your body, you know, there's all of their bodies paying attention to this stuff even when you don't think that it is. But like, having this nighttime routine, you're right, it's good. You have dinner, you like, read a little bit, or you watch a little show, or you walk around a little bit and you do the dishes, and then you have your...
Mikki Wiiliden (14:31.414)
Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (14:41.007)
Yeah.
Jess (14:50.713)
you know, a cup of magnesium and then you brush your teeth and then you, you know, you get a bit like it, it's true. You kind of have to follow an order of operations with the intention that that order of operations is going to like allow for longer, richer sleep. But I just, it's funny. I just didn't even, I'm glad you said that. I have a question about the magnesium going back to this because magnesium is always kind of associated with like potentially better sleep at night.
Mikki Wiiliden (14:53.933)
Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (14:57.859)
That's it.
Mikki Wiiliden (15:03.919)
100 %
Mikki Wiiliden (15:14.745)
Yeah.
Jess (15:15.347)
know, glycemic versus carbonate. Like I love to drink calm, like a cup of calm at night is very, right? I put two scoops in, it's not water. That's part of my nighttime ritual. I love it, I love the taste of it. And I do think it kind of helps me like sleep better. But is there one between the two that you think aids better in sleep?
Mikki Wiiliden (15:20.397)
Mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (15:29.583)
Amazing.
Mikki Wiiliden (15:35.34)
Glycinate. Yeah, however, you can just get, you can get glycinate powders, but albeit, I mean, that's what I use, but it doesn't mean that...
Jess (15:35.609)
It just does, okay. So is there a calm version of glycinate? You know? Okay. Okay. No, that's good to know. Okay.
Mikki Wiiliden (15:48.239)
what you're doing isn't working, you know, this is the thing, because it just, that type of magnesium is less easily absorbed. It doesn't mean you're not absorbing anything. And it sounds just that if you're getting relaxed from it, then it's clearly working. you know, and a lot of it again, might just might be about the routine of it. You know, you're used to having your cup of calm and sitting down and reflecting on the day, then going to bed or whatever your evening looks like, then that in of itself is great.
Jess (16:17.037)
The glycinate does kind of have its own version of calm. When you drink it, do you put two teaspoons or whatever the recommended dose is in a hot cup of water or do you just drink it like in a glass or whatever?
Mikki Wiiliden (16:31.92)
So magnesium glycinate is a type of magnesium and my magnesium is glycinate, citrate and malate together. So they're all different types of magnesium and I have them in a product, Pilla Performance is the product that I use. And I have it in cold water.
Jess (16:34.585)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jess (16:53.165)
And you have that, is that part of your nighttime ritual? I love it. But I could have mine, I could have that same thing hot.
Mikki Wiiliden (16:55.522)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (17:01.712)
Yeah, and you do. Yeah. Yeah.
Jess (17:02.713)
So this is good, yeah. But I could have the three, I could have that, you know what I mean? Either one, I could try, right? Yeah, I just didn't even know in my own brain, I didn't know that there was another version. Like if I wanted to do glycemic or I wanted those three combined together in that pillar form, that I could have that at night in my hot water and have the same routine as I do with comp.
Mikki Wiiliden (17:09.52)
You easily could. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (17:26.0)
There are hundreds of these out there. So ethical nutrients would be another one. Now foods have a magnesium glycinate powder, just straight magnesium glycinate. Momentous, I think. Yeah, people love that too.
Jess (17:28.931)
Mmm.
Jess (17:41.468)
yeah, momentous is good.
Jess (17:46.923)
I just, didn't know which one would be better to take. You know what I mean? Like what I always heard glycemic as being the better option. Nothing's wrong with calm, but if I can have a calm effect and take glycemic, I might as well try that. That's my, that was my bigger point. Okay, good. I like that.
Mikki Wiiliden (17:53.444)
Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (17:59.897)
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you could. You could. Yeah, yeah. Like if anyone's out there thinking, I think my magnesium works okay, then maybe what you just do is when it runs out, you just purchase a glycinate variety and just see. Everyone's quite different as to how their body responds. Yeah.
Jess (18:16.919)
I love it. Huh. So some people just respond better with carbonate versus glycine.
Mikki Wiiliden (18:23.952)
I wouldn't say carbonate specifically, just different forms of. So there's citrate, malate, glycinate, threonate. There's amino acid, chelate. So they're just, the one that I would steer clear from is oxide or hydroxide because that is very poorly absorbed. It's very good for constipation and moving stuff through.
but it's not so good because you don't tolerate it. It's not great for, you don't absorb it, I'm sorry, then it's not great for sleep.
Jess (18:56.671)
And just on that same kind of topic of supplements that might just kind of help you throughout your day, I always think about my museum as like a no-brainer. That's just at the end of the day because I use it to help me sleep. But then as I lead up from the beginning of the day to the end of the day, Omega is really important to me, fish oil, and I've been doing a multi. And then there was other vitamin D.
Is there maybe like one other one in a one in a day people? know it's not going to be your necessarily regime, but if you had four that you're like, but also in the beginning of the day, don't forget to take these. Would it be the ones I just listed?
Mikki Wiiliden (19:34.997)
The other one, love Omega-3s. This isn't related to sleep, but I love Omega-3s. I love vitamin D. I take them as well, and creatine obviously, and my good green vitality. And then I take my currants as well. And sometimes I take biotin when I remember. But they're nothing to do with sleep, but they're the ones, but I do take them.
Jess (19:36.579)
Mm-hmm.
Jess (19:44.825)
Mm-hmm.
Jess (19:58.381)
I've been finding though that when I take like a malta or an omega, it's not, know, and then my magnesium, it's that I, when I kind of put myself on a plan during the day, it kind of sets me up for a nice nighttime ritual though too. You know what I mean? I used to kind of take everything at night cause I'd forget or I'd be taking the malta. I wouldn't take the creatine at night. I knew better than to do that, but I would take my malta or I'd take my omegas and I would just sort of shovel it all in cause I thought, well, should I didn't remember?
Mikki Wiiliden (20:09.734)
Mmm, mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (20:27.651)
Mmm.
Jess (20:27.949)
I have to tell you that now you've reminded me that absorption is just better with those others, you know, than earlier in the day. And actually, I think when you're kind of preparing and you're more thoughtful about when you're taking your supplements, I do think it helps you ultimately at the end of the night with your sleep too. So I do think what you're doing in the early part of the day also helps with your sleep at night. So I think it's all part of that chain of routine.
Mikki Wiiliden (20:33.232)
Mmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (20:49.452)
well it's all routine, yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (20:55.439)
Yeah.
Jess (20:55.553)
I do think just kind of committing to three or four sols, and so do make you feel good and help you throughout the day will also contribute to sleep. But we'll put a link into the pillar because I think that's kind of a good one to know. I love having something hot at night. I love it. And I'm just happy that it kills two birds with one stone. I love anything that kills two birds with one stone.
Mikki Wiiliden (21:01.683)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Mikki Wiiliden (21:10.966)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Totally, totally. I love a cup of decaf tea. Decaf tea in the evenings, lovely.
Jess (21:20.663)
Yeah, it's great. anything kind of hot and soothing and why not make it work for me? So there, right? Why are you grateful for it today?
Mikki Wiiliden (21:26.872)
Exactly, exactly. Love it. I'm grateful for our...
having the ability to have these chats and just get people thinking about things like this because too often we think about supplements and a quick fix whereas overall routine is like so important so that's something I like and I am grateful for.
Jess (21:44.761)
Hmm.
Jess (21:55.265)
I love that. I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful for this. And I am grateful for that because so much of the, always say like the basics done consistently over time are really highly effective. you know, whatever the things that you can do in a ritualistic way is just really good for your head health and your heart health and just your overall being.
Mikki Wiiliden (22:09.228)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mikki Wiiliden (22:22.096)
totally.
Jess (22:22.135)
And I'm gonna, I'm hoping I'm gonna get lots of rest. I'll be resting for you while you're running. I am excited to try a new brand of magnesium. And I'll be sleeping well, because I'm headed into sleep right now after this. So this will be, this is good timing. I'll see you on the other side. Thank you, my friend, you too. Bye.
Mikki Wiiliden (22:33.516)
nice one.
Mikki Wiiliden (22:39.564)
Amazing, lovely Jess. Nice one, you have a great evening. See you, bye.