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A weekly show from the folks at East Lansing Info breaking down all the news and happenings in East Lansing, Michigan.
WDBM East Lansing.
Introduction:This is East Lansing insider brought to you by ELI on impact eighty nine FM. In this show, we break down all of the news and happenings in the East Lansing community. And now, today's East Lansing insider.
Anna Liz Nichols:Hi, everyone. I'm Eli's deputy editor, Anna Liz Nichols. And on this week's episode of East Lansing insider, we're going to be talking about the controversial bans on camping and loitering the East Lansing city council is considering. They have drawn ire from many residents and housing advocates with there being concerns that the ban particularly targets unhoused neighbors. East Lansing Info's managing editor, Lucas Day, was at the meeting on Tuesday.
Anna Liz Nichols:We're recording this podcast on Wednesday, and though the bans could have been taken up for a vote last night, they were delayed until March. These bans have been delayed and further refigured now for weeks. So, Lucas, obviously, these measures didn't pass last night. What happened last night? I heard it went into the early hours of the morning.
Lucas Day:Yeah. There was about two hours of public comment, which is about an hour less than the last time they talked about this on February 3, so there's that. There was nobody who came at least I don't think I I don't think there's anybody who came to speak in favor of passing the camping and, loitering bans, which they kind of reformatted from the last last time they had them. Loitering is no longer anywhere in the terminology. It's like how you can act in parking areas or something like that.
Lucas Day:But it's the same thing. You're not supposed to loiter in parking areas is is is the ban that they're trying to get through and then no camping publicly. And these have actually been in the works going back to last year. These go these these go back all the way to last year. I think it was last November, the police chief who headed the committee that came up with the recommendations for the camping and loitering bans and a number of other public safety recommendations, like adding street lights and cameras and, funding more police officers.
Lucas Day:So they present the police chief presented all those things to the DDA. I think it was last November.
Anna Liz Nichols:It was.
Lucas Day:And then they made the way to city council. In December, they did a first reading of the camping and loitering bans, which have gotten attention recently. But the first couple readings both in December and then in January, they could have passed an ordinance in January, and it wasn't getting as much attention then. There were people that worked locally with the homeless services that were coming to those meetings, but nowhere close to what you're seeing now. And there were concerns about the way it was structured, I I guess, I would say.
Lucas Day:And so it was reformatted to be broken up into two different ordinances after council didn't pass it at their January meeting. And between when that happened and when it came back to city council at at the February, the ACLU, the Michigan Coalition Against Homelessness, and the National Homelessness Law Center, they got involved. They wrote an eight page joint letter to city council kind of just condemning strongly these ordinances, implying not implying, saying that they think they're unconstitutional. I mean, it looks like a legal paper. I I'd assume they'd get sued if they pass this, and that's that's what you've heard at meetings is that there's going to be legal challenges to this if they pass.
Lucas Day:So between when city council decided to reformat these ordinances and, again, these could have something very similar to this could have been passed in January. It was up for a vote and, wasn't getting as much as much attention then, and council decided to reformat it. And between when it was reformatted and when it came back to council on February 3, near the January, the ACLU, the Michigan Coalition Against Homelessness, and the National Homelessness Law Center wrote a joint letter to the city saying condemning the ordinances, saying that they think they might be unconstitutional. And, I mean, the entire letter seemed like it was paving the way for legal challenges if these do eventually pass. And after that letter came and these groups got involved, they started working with some of the more local groups.
Lucas Day:You can see, Khadija Eric Ericsson's group.
Anna Liz Nichols:You you see the tenant the Mid Michigan Tenant Resource Center.
Lucas Day:Right. Right. And, other groups, punk punks with lunch. The rent is too damn high. It's had people there.
Lucas Day:And so when these ordinance is because they got broken up when it got formatted. It was one ordinance, now it's two ordinances. When it got broken up and came back in February, now you see all these local groups, coming to city meetings and really strongly condemning this being considered and saying that there's going to be legal challenges if it passes. The interesting thing, or at least I thought it was the interesting thing from last night's meeting, is that counsel didn't really talk a lot about these ordinances. Chuck Grigsby, I think, has given us the best stance on how he's going to vote on this.
Lucas Day:He said that the speakers have affirmed what he believes, which nobody's really speaking in favor of these ordinances at the meeting. I've seen a couple of written communications from people that are in favor of them, but not many. It's it's been pretty lopsided or is it at least as lopsided as any anything I've seen go through city government as far as people going to meetings and speaking. There's usually two sides, and there just hasn't been. And Chuck said that speakers at meetings have affirmed what he believes.
Lucas Day:After testimony last night, Mark Meadows motioned to table this until March, and city council said they need to look at the language in it and something that I'm trying to get answers to. And, hopefully, I'm just gonna call them all, so I'll have something. I'll have some reporting out on this, before this comes back on March 10 of discussion only meeting is I wanna know what language fixes the city council thinks they can make that would address speakers' concerns because I don't hear language concerns from the people speaking at meetings. Their their concern is the entire intent behind the ordinance. I don't know how you fix that with language tweaks.
Lucas Day:Right?
Anna Liz Nichols:Yeah.
Lucas Day:They they don't want there to be a public camping ban, and they don't want there to be an ordinance for, loitering and parking garages. They they think that if, and we've heard several speakers say this. You know, if unhoused people are committing crimes downtown, arrest them for the crimes they're committing. You don't need to create new crimes so that you can, so you can arrest them. And this is something we talked about when these ordinances were first proposed is that we don't understand the intent behind it.
Lucas Day:And I sent news. I I sent another media request to the city today, so hopefully someone can talk to me more about the intent. We've heard language about crime increasing. Some city some people, city commissions have asked for stats behind that. We haven't seen that yet.
Lucas Day:That's something that I asked for again today. Hopefully, for, you know, around the time this podcast comes out, I I have data because I I still haven't seen it. The police chief said that she did a homeless census and guessed that there are between six and twelve homeless people in East Lansing. She said that a discussion only meeting, February 10, and six and twelve people aren't very many. So, again, if crime is the concern and there's six and twelve people but then there's between six and twelve people that are making crime spike, why aren't those six six to 12 people being addressed?
Lucas Day:So I I I just think that there's a lot of questions about the intent behind the ordinance, and the city council said that they were going to look at language tweaks to address speakers' concerns. And I just I I I'm struggling to understand how a language tweak can can address those concerns. So
Anna Liz Nichols:It's that's the crux of this is you keeps you have reiterated the point of what change addresses the concerns the citizens have. And the only change that appears that would appease the concerns citizens have is just dropping this matter altogether. Because, like you mentioned, they they they broke the ordinance up into two two ordinances to amend existing ordinances. That was not a concern citizens articulated that that maybe we shoved too much into one ordinance, nor was even really the definition of loitering. There's questions, however, about, you know, how is that going to be defined in the sense of are students going to now be penalized for doing what students do in the downtown, which is, you know, sometimes walk around aimlessly.
Anna Liz Nichols:Will there be certain demographics that are targeted by this? There was concerns from from, black community members that, you know, black youth and and and the black population would be targeted by this. I haven't heard a a community member say, you know, it makes me really uncomfortable when someone has a blanket in downtown, but that's part of the ordinance. So if you wouldn't be able it by definition, it would seem that if you have a blanket and you have no intention of leaving, you you are violating the ordinance. And that portion of the ordinance is the one that can can cause incarceration up to thirty days for violations.
Lucas Day:Right.
Anna Liz Nichols:So the only clarity that we've gotten in a public format from city officials of why this ordinance is being introduced because I I was at the the DDA meet meeting in November for which this element was not discussed. We talked a lot more about infrastructure issues, the idea of adding more lighting, of adjusting how bar lines, should go for for safety purposes for for convenience. Now the rationale behind this has been said, crime has been rising in East Lansing for the last couple weeks, for for months, and people are reporting feeling unsafe and uncomfortable when they are navigating our parking structures due to people loitering in those areas. We really have not heard much conversation from, you know, our citizen makeup in these public formats affirming that. We've had a business owner talk about how, unhoused individuals have destroyed property, in and around his business, and we've had maybe two or three residents.
Anna Liz Nichols:I'm even struggling to say three. I can think of one that has said, you know, just the presence of the unhoused population is is concerning. And that's one of the problems the housing advocates have with this ordinance is it it's for some, they've articulated this is just a ban on being homeless. It's a ban on poverty. It's a ban on being seen.
Anna Liz Nichols:The criticism from advocates like, individuals from punk, individuals from punks with lunch, particularly has have mentioned that this would just drive people into the woods, which they still would not be permitted to be in. Like, they're, this would ban people from from camping in in public public property. So they would have to go so far into the woods or so far into the frays of society that no one would see them, thus making it harder for first responders and helping organizations to intervene, say someone needs help.
Lucas Day:Right. I think that was some of the language that, you can't be camping in a place that you can see from a public place, which is, you know, most places. And just to go back to a few of the things you said there, they did briefly mention that the parking lot ordinance, I forget which meeting this was at, but maybe needed for more than just on house people. And they're not if they try to reverse course now, which I don't get an indication they're gonna do, but if they're just saying that this that they need this ordinance to enforce other things, these ordinances were introduced directly as ways to address the homeless population. That's the way that they were introduced.
Lucas Day:They came as part of that of that public safety package, but within that, they were labeled as ordinances to address people's concern about their own Yes. Concerns about
Anna Liz Nichols:their language from the city council, they've done a lot to avoid saying that.
Lucas Day:Yeah. Since. Yeah. And they have said that there's been issues with, you know, students hanging out in parking garages around game days, which I believe maybe that's a problem. It still seems like you can do other things if that is a problem.
Lucas Day:You know, if they're if they're blocking people from driving, I'd I'd think that there's already existing code that prevents that. And my big question, you mentioned earlier that one of the camping provisions is if someone has a blanket. The the language they used is bedding. But just when I see homeless people, you know, around, they've usually got those little carts. And, usually, they got a few things in their carts, and one of the things in them is a blanket.
Lucas Day:And so if you're a person who has to carry your things around with you all day, like a homeless person, like many homeless people are, like, can you be arrested for sitting on a you can't be arrested for sitting on a city bench. You're allowed to do that. But if you've got your carton and it has a blanket in it, all of a sudden, are you in violation of the city's ordinance because you have bedding.
Anna Liz Nichols:Yeah. Bedding and bedding material as well as cookware was in in the language.
Lucas Day:Right. Right. And even if the answer to that even if we talk to the city attorney and he says, well, no, and he gives us some explanation, how confident are you that all of your police officers are going to enforce that rule correctly? Because this feels like something that maybe goes into effect. Maybe they pass in a couple years, you forget about it until something bad happens.
Lucas Day:And that's been mentioned at city meetings. They've mentioned, incident at the Lansing Caddestation where somebody who was on house and, I believe, banned from the Caddestation was pretty violently arrested, I think it's fair to say, even though at least in the videos that came out, it didn't look like they were disturbing anyone at the time that this happened. And so on house people, you know, they tend to be disproportionately disabled, disproportionately have severe mental health issues and, you know, difficult for law enforcement to work with. I wonder if, at a time where there's a lot of questions about our police department, if you're kinda taking a gamble putting this in place, giving them more responsibility to enforce these things when I'm not I mean, how how big of an issue is it? Again, the police chief's estimate on homeless people in East Lansing was six to 12, which she must be defining homeless peep people that are homeless differently because a lot of places define them as, you know, if you're a student couch surfing, you're considered homeless because you don't have an address.
Lucas Day:There's there's more than 12 students couch surfing right now. I'm guessing she's talking about people that are chronically homeless, maybe people that are downtown. Again, that's something that I've asked the city or I plan to ask the city about it. I put an immediate request today. Today is Wednesday.
Lucas Day:So, hopefully, I hear back soon, and I can figure out more of the details about that. But, yeah, it it just seems like this is something that if they pass it next month, you might forget about it for a while, and then something happens. And we wonder why this ordinance is there in the first place Because it doesn't seem like there's some homeless crisis in East Lansing. I I've I've asked in the one place that I've told that there's been, like, a shelter setup that's behind the target, and there's concerns that it was next to a generator or something like that. It seems like you might be able to deal with that one person without making a new law.
Anna Liz Nichols:Yeah. Which actually, in terms of, the solutions, chief Jen Brown, brought to the DDA, encapsulating or separating that and I don't think it's a I think it's a it's a energy convert.
Lucas Day:It's Something. I'm bad with tools.
Anna Liz Nichols:Part part of one of the solutions is is, encapsulating that or creating some sort of barrier.
Lucas Day:Mhmm. So But, like, it it just seems like it's something you can address without creating a new law. It's not like there's people always camping out next to targets, energy thing, whatever you just said it was.
Anna Liz Nichols:This is very embarrassing because I think for one of our podcasts, I I had a I, like, looked up the engineering term so
Lucas Day:that I would be ready. So that yeah. You don't need any of the MSU engineering students hearing this and then reaching back out. My other question with this one is a complaint from people at meetings has been that, you know, you look at these city agendas and everything, there's a ton of research into them. They've got things spelled out.
Lucas Day:Like, you know, we just we just saw things about, like, the city's financial future, and there's huge breakdowns about when taxes are gonna come in, how much they'll generate in the future, like, revenue streams that have been lost. Like, it's just very detailed. And then you look at these ordinances, and the justification for it is extremely vague vague language. There's no numbers that come with crime crime increasing. It just says general language around that.
Anna Liz Nichols:They're saying we talked about this and Right. That they considered the input of of helping organizations, housing advocates. Which housing advocate is signing on to this?
Lucas Day:Yeah. And they've said that they because they had that workshop type thing where they invited a bunch of housing advocates, and they talked to them.
Anna Liz Nichols:And which and which organization I'm I'm so sorry. We have the same point where it's just
Lucas Day:Yeah.
Anna Liz Nichols:You you held a symposium of sorts for for housing advocates and and unhoused, perspectives. Which element of of that did you bring into this policy?
Lucas Day:And, I mean, last night, they said, this was just briefly mentioned, was that they were going to do something with that workshop and what they gathered at that workshop. They didn't say what, but they said they're gonna do something with it. And this is a city that doesn't have a lot of money right now. Mhmm. We heard this at last night's meeting that they need to make changes or they're projected to go bankrupt within five years old.
Lucas Day:There's some questions about the budgeting that I'll we can talk about later. But, like, I people want East Lansing to open a homeless shelter because East Lansing does not have a homeless shelter for individuals. There's just a small family shelter. And in a city that's looking to cut expenses, I don't know if it's necessarily in the budget right now to open open a homeless shelter. Although it also costs money to jail people.
Lucas Day:So
Anna Liz Nichols:Cost money to jail people. It costs money to have officers dedicated to to flushing out Mhmm. The downtown area, in a department that's already articulated now for years that they do not have enough officers and now would would like more officers for for road patrol.
Lucas Day:Yeah. Yeah. They approved a couple more last night. Collaboration between jurisdictions seems like something that might be able to help here. But if you're you know, they're being accused of pushing their homeless population to Lansing.
Lucas Day:So how thrilled is Lansing gonna be if you're doing that? And how much does that encourage collaboration? There's just so many unanswered questions, and I really hope somebody will talk to me about this. Mhmm. I'm just gonna go ahead and call everybody on city council, but I I'd like either the police chief or the city manager to talk to me about this because we're four months in now, and there still has not been give like, a solid explanation for why they think they need this given at city meetings so people don't understand it.
Lucas Day:And Yeah.
Anna Liz Nichols:We have hours of perspective from from local residents, researchers, advocates talking about how they don't we don't need this policy, how this is detrimental, how this is dehumanizing for for our residents, both if you're someone impacted by this this policy and if you're simply existing in the municipality for which it exists.
Lucas Day:Yeah. And all the people that have spoken, that's a point I was trying to make that I got lost because I can't think correctly. You heard, like, if you were going to put together a panel, experts to talk about homelessness locally, like, you probably would have used a good amount of people who spoke at last night's meeting and the meeting before. Like, you got really good researchers from Michigan State. You got the people that work with them directly.
Lucas Day:You got people who have been on house in the area, and they're telling you all of these different things that the city could do and why what they're trying to do won't work. And they're not getting a ton of reaction, I don't think. Yeah.
Anna Liz Nichols:And they're telling the council that one of the number one fears unhoused individuals have in the Greater Lansing area is cops.
Lucas Day:Is police. Yeah. But but you've got all that expertise and lived experience talking to you, and then your your your ordinance, your justification to it that's written down is just so vague. Yeah. It just I'm really curious what they're gonna say on March 10 because I don't think that tweaking the language is gonna address the concerns here.
Anna Liz Nichols:Yeah. I guess my point was we keep hitting hours and hours of just about the same perspective just from the from the opposition. And I we have minutes of perspective, and it's duplicative of it's the same small statements not really getting into the weeds of of, you know, this is metrically what the issue is in East Lansing, and then this is what we are trying to accomplish, and these are our goals with I actually don't think I've heard a goal from these from the city council meetings, like, a goal of this policy.
Lucas Day:Right. It's
Anna Liz Nichols:I've heard, Jen Brown, one of the meetings, say, you know, we really don't have the tools to connect the unhoused population to resources. That's an issue she has presented.
Lucas Day:We don't have just hired a social worker to do that specifically. Like, last week, she said that.
Anna Liz Nichols:But we haven't heard what the goals of this policy is. Is the goal to reduce poverty in East Lansing? Is it to ultimately create a metric of, like, oh, this is how many unhoused part this is how many interactions our our our police forces had with the unhoused population maybe in the budget we need. We need to budget for for more resources for perhaps another shelter. I haven't heard a goal of this policy, which leaves advocates to their imagination to educated guesses of why this this policy is being proposed.
Lucas Day:Yeah. I the justification I always see is crime, and I'm not sure how much the homeless population is driving crime in East Lansing. I think that it might be maybe the most visible type of crime that we see because, I don't we we've heard people that have said that, you know, on house people have been urinating in public, have been harassing them, you know, things like that. I'm guessing a lot of that's people that are extremely mentally ill, but you can already arrest people for that. And so I I I almost wonder if it's I don't wanna say performative, but a way to arrest people for something new because they think that they might commit a crime later on because they're hearing from people that, you know, the on house population is doing this.
Lucas Day:And, again, you know, nobody should be harassing anyone. I think that, you know, maybe if we wanna crack down on harassing people, we can look at how some of the, you know, male students are working at are acting at the bars. I've got a
Anna Liz Nichols:I know. I'm like, what I'm hearing is minority report of, oh, we're preventing the crime before it occurs. And I'm like, if we look at the actual demographics that cause crime or just just you know, I'd bet my hat we we get more crimes coming out of the frat houses than than the homeless population just by sheer human numbers.
Lucas Day:Yeah. I mean, I've got a college age sister, and she doesn't go to the frat houses, but she hangs around that population. Sometimes it's unavoidable in East Lansing, and, they they're not acting better now than they were when I
Introduction:was in school. I'll tell you that they
Lucas Day:have not gotten their act together. They're doing the same stuff. And
Anna Liz Nichols:But we're not talking about banning Greek life. No. Because that's part of that's part of our our our our local comprisal. It's part of our economy here in East Lansing. College students are the economy here.
Lucas Day:Yeah. And MSU might have to do something about Greek life, but that's I think that would take a hit at their donor base. Yeah. That's That's a whole another thing.
Anna Liz Nichols:Another story.
Lucas Day:That's the point I was trying to make is that if harassment's a big deal in East Lansing, I think that we might be looking at the wrong demographic, because I know how college students are acting sometimes.
Anna Liz Nichols:Yeah. You know, we we had a whole episode just, what was it, two weeks ago where we talked to Khadija Erickson solely about this this camping and loitering ordinance proposals. We've talked a lot internally and also on our website externally about these ordinances because they have largely taken up all the airspace in these city council meetings. They have been extremely controversial. They have drawn huge crowds.
Anna Liz Nichols:We fill the rooms in city council and go in up into the the lane hours of the night. But we do have other reporting at East Lansing info, some some developing stories that we're working on right now, but also some some interesting things happening around the city.
Lucas Day:Yeah. There's been some good stuff around transparency, I thought. We had one couple weeks ago that talked about the city's policing controversy, which I'm not gonna recap here because we've talked about this at length too. But, basically, the biggest policing controversy that East Lansing has had in several years since the Meijer shooting, in 2022, where young men were pepper sprayed downtown. Police department put out a press release and named them both.
Lucas Day:It wasn't accurate. Video appears to show that came out later. And we just found out at the end of last month, I believe it was, maybe it was earlier this month, that the city's insurance coverage could be at risk if it talks about that incident because the insurance paid for the lawyers who are now dealing with it. But at the same time, the officer deployed the pepper spray guy squarely at the middle of it is posting about it on Instagram. His body bit building Instagram page, which I think is kind of a fun little wrinkle.
Lucas Day:There's another one about the human rights commission. They're trying to investigate that same instrument pepper spray. They're looking for, both police records about arrests that the two officers were there made and their body cam footage for weekends surrounding that weekend. And they're trying to establish a pattern if there's racial bias on how these officers are acting. But the city told them they're gonna need to pay $900 if they want those records.
Lucas Day:Although the city commissions are made up of volunteers, these aren't rich people. They don't have $900. And so what they've asked the city to do is waive the fee, which the city can do, and give them the records records so that they can do their investigation. And I think that happened at the meeting in February. HRC meets the first Monday of the month, I think.
Lucas Day:And so we're gonna get to see what happens next with that at the March. I'm curious I'm curious how both of those go. Those are both kind of transparency things because the concerns about insurance, I mean, it's still a choice. Like, you can still settle the lawsuit quicker. You know, I understand public officials are protecting taxpayer dollars.
Lucas Day:Don't get me wrong. But this is something that really has hit at the reputation of the city. If you go to a city meeting, you're gonna hear people talk calling them, you know, mayor and city manager and place chief racist in in those terms. Like, they don't beat around the bush. They say that, and they say it at every meeting.
Lucas Day:And so it is a reputational thing. We know the city cares a lot about its reputation. They spend a ton of money on PR consultants. So, you know, there is a there is a choice there. I understand that it's not a straightforward choice necessarily because you are trying to protect taxpayer money.
Lucas Day:Is it but losing your insurance companies, or your insurance coverage would be a big deal. I'm not diminishing any of that. But I I don't think it's there's only one choice, I guess, which is kind of how they presented it. I think that maybe there's other things you can do, but those things might cost money. So, yeah, that those are the things that are developing that I'm kind of interested in.
Lucas Day:What about you?
Anna Liz Nichols:Well, kind of on a lighter a lighter note because I I just am such a fan of some of the the features reporting that goes on at East Lansing Info. I really liked Aya's piece on the East Lansing High School Robotics Club. Yeah. As well as, Dustin had the great idea to check-in on if local second amendment, proprietors and and advocates, were thinking if if if liberal minor
Lucas Day:Are libs buying guns?
Anna Liz Nichols:Are libs buying I'm trying to think of the right words, but is is are libs buying guns? And so he talked with with educators and and proponents. And this this being following the the killing by, immigration enforcement of, Minneapolis nurse, Alex Peretti. And what he found is there's there's mixed signaling on whether gun purchases have have gone up for for liberal minded individuals. But I think what the the the piece does prove is that there is more conversation about, firearm ownership, in general.
Lucas Day:Right. There I know he saw some national reporting that, libs are buying guns nationally, and so he was talking to people locally who would know. Mhmm. And, I mean, it was an interesting story. Talked about one of the sources talked about how it's, you know, hard to track gun purchases.
Lucas Day:There's not really a log of that type of thing. You can't no. Don't know who who leans left or right when they buy a gun. So they're not anecdotally seeing it, but, I mean, they talked about the training that's available, and he found a couple of people that are more left leaning that got their CPLs. I I I thought that was a good one.
Anna Liz Nichols:Yeah. And not to plug myself, but it just was one of the most fun days in journalism I've had in a long time. I got to spend the day at, the Beakman Center over in Lansing. If you haven't heard of it, listeners, it's one of the it's one of the two special education, facilities within Ingham ISD, Ingham Intermediate Ingham Intermediate School District. And I get to spend the day at the Beakman Center because come May, East Lansing voters are going to have a say in whether, the school district will get nearly a $100,000,000 bond for reconstructing the Beauchman Center because it it is, according to the the school district, far outlived its its, usability.
Anna Liz Nichols:It's an old building. And, also, the other facility, the Hartwood School, needs some updates, especially when it comes to accessibility. Like, the the Beekman Center was built long before the Americans with Disabilities Act. It was built years before there really were other facilities like it. It's it's because it's, like, the first of its kind of facility in the country.
Anna Liz Nichols:It's it's kind of an umbrella building where it has medical professionals. It has occupational therapists, physical therapists, really everything, students with the most, need for help learning and in learning life skills, learning things like how to, do personal hygiene, navigate with with the most level of independence they can have. And it was just kind of a magical day. I we we wrote about it just so voters know what they're voting on. There's kind of a a belief from the school district that people might not even know about the Beakman Center.
Anna Liz Nichols:It's kind of tucked tucked, away from any main roads. And so it was kind of just a opportunity for not only me personally to to get to know the facility, but hopefully for for voters to get a better picture on on what, they do there. So we've got a lot going on in in East Lansingen. I've been deputy editor, Annalise Nichols.
Lucas Day:I'm managing editor of Lucas Day.
Anna Liz Nichols:We'll talk next week.
Introduction:East Lansing Insider is brought to you by ELI on Impact eighty nine FM. We are on the web at east lansing info news and impact89fm.org. Thanks for listening.