Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

How can we approach aging with more joy, empathy, and meaningful connection?
We often talk about lifespan, or how long we live, but Kerry Burnight believes the more important question is how fully we live along the way.
Burnight is a gerontologist, former professor of geriatric medicine, and author of Joyspan: The Art and Science of Thriving in Life's Second Half. Drawing from decades of experience working with older adults, she discusses why adopting a “growth aging mindset” can change the way we think about getting older, and why autonomy matters just as much as safety in conversations with aging loved ones. As she puts it, “it’s not just the big moments, it’s the little moments, too.”
In this Quick Thinks episode of Think Fast Talk Smart, Burnight and host Matt Abrahams explore the role of listening, storytelling, and empathy in effective communication across generations. Through memorable examples and actionable advice, Burnight offers a compassionate framework for talking about — and thinking about — aging differently.

Episode Reference Links:
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Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (02:53) - Aging Mindsets
  • (05:21) - Give of the Day
  • (08:49) - Difficult Aging Conversations
  • (19:21) - Explaining Complex Ideas
  • (20:50) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Kerry Burnight
Gerontologist | Author | Former Professor of Geriatric Medicine

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Be direct,
clear, and empathetic.

Don't bubble wrap your communication.

My name is Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to this Quick Thinks episode
of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

In my recent conversation with
gerontologist Kerry Burnight, she

discussed so many useful approaches
and skills that we could not

capture them all in one episode.

So here, we provide more of Kerry's
insights into effective communication

we can all benefit from, especially
when we communicate with older people.

In your book, you have a quiz
about your mindset towards aging,

and I, I feel many people have a
declining mindset, as you define it.

Can you describe techniques and ways
that, that we can flip that switch?

Because I would much rather have
a positive outlook and reap the

benefits from perhaps doing so.

Kerry Burnight: Yes.

Your listeners can think of
it, there are two options.

One is the decline aging
mindset, which is aptly DAM.

The DAM mindset.

Matt Abrahams: You're dammed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kerry Burnight: Yes.

And that's the prevalent, that
is the cultural norm, that's

what, that's our default setting.

Then there's the growth aging mindset,
and if you put an E on, it could be GAME.

But the growth aging mindset,
in fact, is backed by science,

and I think that's what helps.

This is not a put your
head in the sand thing.

This is, in fact, knowing
that I am going to be able to,

for example, solve problems.

And I want to give you an example of
it, because if people know this, it's

going to change the way that they
think about their own problem solving.

And problem solving is something
that we need all lifelong.

So I have a colleague who has
passed, but he was at Harvard,

and his name is Gene Cohen.

He had a PhD, MD.

And he, every week on Wednesdays, he
would pick up his parents, who were

in their 90s, from the train station.

He would pick them up there, help
them with their walkers into his

car, drive them to his house, where
they would eat dinner, and then he

would drive them home afterwards.

One day, this brilliant son was late.

His parents come up to the
platform, dumping snow.

They're looking around, didn't
have a cell phone with them.

They look over, they see a pizza place.

They carefully walk to the pizza place
and they say, "You know, we'd like

to order a pizza, and we'd like to
have it delivered to our son's house.

And when you do, we'd like to ride
along with that pizza in the car."

Matt Abrahams: Oh my goodness.

What a great solution.

Kerry Burnight: He gets home, his parents
are there with a hot dinner ready to go.

But if we didn't understand that we
can come up with solutions that are

not necessarily tech, and we need to
listen long enough, so people who are

ahead of us, our job is to close our
mouth for a minute and listen to the

solutions that older people come up with.

And so often they have great solutions
that we wouldn't even come up

with because we're not there yet.

Matt Abrahams: So look forward to and
embrace the benefits that come with age.

And I love that example.

I, I think person and food delivery
simultaneously, what a great idea.

Thank you for that.

You, in your book, provide
several examples of how we

can cultivate joy in our life.

The one that stood out the most
to me, and that I've enjoyed doing

the most, is Give of the Day.

Can you explain this activity
and share how it works?

Kerry Burnight: Yes.

So because we know that giving really
impacts the quality of our long lives, not

to mention benefits others, we need to put
it into practice in the same way that we

do the physical strength kinds of things.

So when people say, like, "At what age
should I start working on my joy span?"

I say, "Well, at what age do you think
you should start on your cardiovascular

health?" As early as possible.

And what makes your life better
between the ages of 23 and 24,

also are the same as 93 and 94.

So it's never too early,
and it's never too late.

You can think of it almost like the
way that you lift a weight, and you're

just doing a few every day, having
that ability to look at your day and

look for opportunities to give of
yourself, and that they're small.

And so in the purpose literature,
Steven Cole at UCLA did a study,

and he looked at the epigenetics of
purpose or giving or contribution.

And what he found is, all variables held
constant, those who felt that they had

a purpose had different gene expression
in inflammation and antiviral load.

And it was so robust that they did a
piece in The New York Times about it.

And you're like, wow, so
giving makes a difference.

So Give of the Day is proactively
take a moment, maybe when you're

having coffee, maybe when you have
a little bit of downtime to think,

"What is something I can find today?"
And I'm gonna give you some examples.

You might look in your backyard and you
see that there are lemons back there.

Pick them, put them in a bag, go
next door to your next-door neighbor.

That takes two seconds, whether
they need lemons or not, and that

helps with social connection.

It's little, tiny things,
mentoring, listening.

Sometimes just taking the time
to think, "I'm gonna be fully

present in my listening," is the
greatest give that we can give.

But it doesn't just happen, and
it's not just the big moments,

it's the little moments, too.

And when we think about giving, there
is another part of the equation,

because it does feel good to give,
and we know about the giver's high.

But If everybody is just
giving, we don't have the other

part, which is the receiving.

And so something that we need
to also learn is how to receive.

And so when somebody offers,
like, "Oh, your wife is sick.

Could I bring over dinner?" We want to
say, "Oh, no, I got it." But instead to

go, "Thank you." To let... And people
say, "I'll be happy in longevity as

long as I'm independent." And that,
for me, is disconcerting because

I know what the path looks like.

So I like to think the reality
is that we are interdependent.

We never really were entirely independent,
and we certainly, if we're holding our

independence out as the goal, that's
a little bit rougher than saying,

"I'm going to give and also receive."

Matt Abrahams: I love the activity, and
I really appreciate you calling it out.

I know that in my father's life, my
father has passed, but his ability to

accept help, there was a fundamental
transition when he began to accept it

versus fighting it, and thank you for
highlighting both sides of that equation.

I want to turn our attention to
communication, and part of it I

want to look at your communication,
but also communication that

some of us struggle with.

Let's start with not yours, but ours,
and I'd love to get your advice.

Many of us find ourselves needing
to have very difficult conversations

around aging, be it talking with people
about stopping driving cars, moving

into assisted living, other situations.

What advice and guidance do you have to
help those of us who need to initiate

those conversations, or perhaps those
who are receiving that conversation?

What can we do to help make that better
and less angst and conflict filled?

Kerry Burnight: I'm so glad you
asked that because it is the

question that comes up every day.

And I will start with what not
to do, because this is how it

goes when you're a gerontologist.

I now will pretend that you are
the 90-year-old father and I am

your adult daughter at age 60.

I'm concerned about something, and so what
I do is I go in hot, and I use the only

model that I know, which is parenting.

So this parenting the parent or
role reversal, it's not a good

model, because as adults, you as
the father, you, you're not a child

and you don't want to be parented.

And the reality of aging is, on
the one hand, there is safety.

Younger people are all about, "This
isn't safe. Safety, safety, safety."

But it's not the whole picture.

If you look on the other
end, it's autonomy.

And autonomy is one of the
developmental drivers of growing older.

And so by going in hot, that I, the adult
daughter, am gonna fix your problem,

I'm taking away your autonomy, and you,
of course, your natural reaction is,

"Back off. I got this. I don't need
any help," because I've threatened you.

So please, adult
children, don't go in hot.

And I can say this because
I've done the same thing.

My mom was in the hospital for months.

I thought I was being so terrific.

I got a hospital bed downstairs
so she didn't have to go up the

stairs, but I didn't ask her.

So she got home, and she was sick to
see this hospital bed set up without

her permission in her nice house.

So I do it wrong a lot, and
so that's why I can say.

So how do you do it right?

Okay, let's say the
conversation is around driving.

Please throw out this thing is,
when do I take away the keys?

I mean, that right there
is the biggest red flag.

So everyone who's having that
thought, please put it away.

Step one, just like in all
communication, as you well know, is

to close your mouth and to listen.

Because then the person is not going
to feel like you're coming after their

autonomy or their personhood or that
you're thinking they're less than.

So it would be a series, not just one, not
this big sit-down, little conversations

where you go, you know, you're just
talking maybe about driving, right?

So you're not going after them in any way.

And then maybe in my case with my mom,
she was having more nicks on her car.

So I didn't go in and go, "Mom,
oh my gosh, this isn't safe.

You know, you could kill someone.

Look at that." I learned to shut my mouth
and say, "Tell me more about how driving

is feeling." And then she's looking for
you to see if you're coming after her,

maybe that's enough for conversation one.

Maybe the next conversation, "Are
there parts to it that are getting

hard, or are you doing fine?"

And then sometimes we can say like
I really like, Mom, how we can talk

about these things, 'cause I know some
other families it's such contention.

But look at us, we're just talking.

'Cause I really value you and your
decision-making and your problem-solving.

How did you, for example, like with
your mom, what was that like, right?

So you're putting the person as
they should be, as it's their

life and they're ahead of you.

And yes, you have concerns 'cause
you love them, and you don't

want rough things to happen.

Another one is, this is a
personal example, my mom's

house has treacherous stairs.

And then the most hard marble
or something at the bottom.

And so my older sister said, "Mom's gonna
fall down the stairs and break her neck.

You can't let her live here by herself.

I can't believe you're a gerontologist
and you let her do that." So I did hold

that a bit, but then I did this advice of
communication of, in a calm way, having

conversations with my mom of saying, "How
do you feel on the stairs?" Next time,

"What would happen if you would fall?

Do you ever think about that?" And my
mom, because she doesn't have cognitive

impairment, we can especially have,
she said, "You know something, Carrie?

It is critically important
for me to live in my house.

And I wanna tell you something.

I probably ultimately will
fall someday, and I know for

sure I am gonna die someday.

So I want you to know in advance,
you didn't do anything wrong if

you find me bloody on the floor.

You know that you enabled me to do
what I wanted." It's not the case of

everybody, but in that conversation, and
I said, "Oh gosh, Mom, you should talk

to my sister too, and to my brother."
So we had all these conversations

because aging is a time of greater
heterogeneity than any other time.

Everybody's path is different.

Everybody's family is different.

But the one result that's the
same is it all ends the same

way, is that you pass away.

And that's not defeat, and it
doesn't mean that you did it wrong.

And so some of these families that I
work with, where they're just bubble

wrapping the person into misery, I think
maybe you didn't have the conversations

Matt Abrahams: What a
powerful image there.

So many things that you said there
that I want to highlight, but first,

these conversations aren't just
with the person who might be older.

It's also with the others who
to help take care of them, and

you have to coordinate that.

And I think a lot of your advice
that you gave also applies to

those conversations as well.

Start with inquiry.

Understand that the conversation
might be about a bigger issue than

you think, so it's not about the
car keys, it's about autonomy.

And break the conversation
down into pieces.

It doesn't all have to happen at once.

And engage the other
person in the conversation.

Wonderful advice.

Kerry Burnight: And you'll, you will
disagree, and that's the part to it, too.

Is that, and so then you're trying to
really think through to what extent is

it their life, and we let people do what
they want to do even if we don't agree.

Or then you put in the complicating,
sometimes there's cognitive impairment.

And that really complicates things because
would they have chosen a different path

if they didn't have some cognitive change?

So I'm not saying it's easy,
but I'm saying the more you dig

in, the more transparent, the
more multiple conversations with

other family members, the better.

Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I want to talk very briefly about your
approach to explaining these things.

You have a wonderful way of helping
people understand very complex and, in

some cases, highly emotional issues.

You use storytelling, you use
exemplars, you use very vivid images.

How do you think about making complex
information more accessible to people?

Because in a large part,
that's what you do.

How do you think through that process?

Because all of us in our lives have
complex things we have to explain.

Kerry Burnight: I had not a diagnosis of
ADHD when I was younger and needed it.

But I just fumbled through, thinking, "Why
can I not pay so very close attention?"

And so I have a shorter attention span,
and I want to get to the point quickly.

And so my hope was that I would
write a book that, get to the point.

Like, what do I need to do
here to make my life okay?

'Cause I'm scared about growing older.

So I just tried to write
what I would want to read.

So in that regards, I think
maybe the ADHD helped me.

Matt Abrahams: In some ways, you
know, and I feel the same way in the

books I write, is get to the point.

And I like how you use examples, you
reinforce, you have catchy phrases,

you use quotes, you give activities.

All of those are ways to revisit
the same point to really help.

And I think all of us, in the
complexities that we have to

describe and explain, can benefit.

Kerry Burnight: Well, there you have it.

So many useful tools and
tips from Kerry Burnight.

Please be sure to check out
our full episode with Kerry and

give her book Joy Span a read.

Thank you for tuning in to this
Quick Thinks episode of Think

Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with
special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

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