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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Welcome to the Lounge Lizard's podcast presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Poobah, Senator, Grinder, and Bam Bam.
Gizmo:And are planning to smoke a cigar, drink some cognac, talk about life, and, of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 131st official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're gonna smoke a cubit cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We share our interview with ST DuPont CEO, Alain Cravais, recorded live at PCA 2024, where we discuss the company's storied history, his plans for the future of the brand, his love of cognac and cigars, and the brand new collaboration with Padron, all among a variety of other things for the next 2 hours.
Gizmo:So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy, as we pair Martell Blue Swift, Cognac DSOP with the Hoya De Monterrey Double Coronas. A double corona from Cuba tonight on the pod. It's the Hoyo De Monterrey Double Corona. It's a 49 ring gauge cigar by 7 and 5 eights inches long. And boys, this is the 4th regular production double corona we've done on the pod and the 4th Hoyo tonight.
Gizmo:And I'll be honest, I'm a little nervous.
Bam Bam:Yes. I think the rest of us are as well but this is quite the beautiful cigar.
Gizmo:Why why would you make a beautiful cigar?
Senator:We have such
Senator:a great track record with oil. Why would you possibly be concerned
Bam Bam:about this?
Gizmo:I'm terribly anxious about how these cigars are gonna perform tonight.
Bam Bam:Yeah. We all are.
Senator:Well, you did roll them,
Gizmo:so you should I did. I did. And you guys can yell at me for it once we, once we brought
Rooster:them up.
Gizmo:It's perfect, Ross. So nobody we need 6 perfect draws that I can prepare.
Poobah:Yeah. Well, get ready for, the perfect draw, then the Lincoln Tunnel, and, No. These will be open. A little bit of traffic. Nope.
Gizmo:Nope. George Washington's stop
Poobah:and go. Nope. Nope. Some stop and go on the
Rooster:These would
Bam Bam:be nice.
Poobah:On the 495 Helix.
Bam Bam:This has taken us on a roller coaster over the years. Yeah. So we
Gizmo:don't know where we're going. Great great HOYO DCs, and we've had Absolutely. Beyond mediocre Correct. HOYO DCs. But first, boys, let's cut this thing.
Poobah:So we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. I can't believe we're actually smoking this.
Gizmo:I agree. It's been a while since we've done a double corona. Yeah. We know. This is a big cigar.
Poobah:Wait till you light it. The first light is great. I'm I'm being serious.
Bam Bam:Then you no. We'll throw it down.
Poobah:If I was if I was, like, a French king, I would just smoke the first third of these and then ditch them.
Gizmo:Poop it decided to light. Here's a bit here in a minute.
Poobah:True.
Bam Bam:How's your draw?
Gizmo:The draw's a little tight.
Bam Bam:It's tight.
Alain Crevet:Yeah. Yeah.
Bam Bam:Cadence, buddy. Cadence. Welcome back, brother.
Rooster:We'll do alright.
Senator:Listen. That's tomorrow. That is it
Rooster:for us today. For for the listener,
Senator:we'll leave you with a for he can't do it.
Poobah:Okay. Wow.
Rooster:He'll do
Senator:it live.
Poobah:For the listener, you know, before the episode starts, still a little behind the curtain stuff. You know, we talk about what we're gonna talk about for a few minutes. I had been cold drying the thing for already 20 minutes while we were talking about that, what we're gonna talk about. So we just lit it. So what are you
Gizmo:guys getting on the cold draw? Cold draw. What are you guys getting on the cold draw?
Bam Bam:Pretty mild cold draw.
Alain Crevet:Cedar. It's pleasant. Some cedar.
Bam Bam:It's nice.
Senator:My my draw is really good and lots of cedar, though.
Senator:Yeah. I get cedar and a little bit of milk chocolate.
Rooster:Like Mhmm.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Senator:Very faint.
Rooster:Mhmm.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Cocoa white cocoa. White chocolate thing.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's light this thing. The Joyo De Monterrey, double Coronas tonight on the pod. 49 ring gauge cigar by 7 and 5 eighths inches long. Heard that SD DuPont lite, which is very appropriate because tonight we're gonna cut in a wonderful conversation that we had with the CEO of ST DuPont, Alain Cravet, at the PCA show.
Gizmo:That was a great conversation. So we're gonna get to that in a little little bit.
Bam Bam:So we haven't smoked this cigar in a group setting
Poobah:for
Bam Bam:a very, very long time. Last time, it was on Puba's deck.
Senator:Yeah. That was a great night. Fantastic. Everybody was there for it. It was just an amazing night.
Poobah:I'm glad everyone got home alive.
Bam Bam:Or got out alive.
Poobah:We we were there till 2:45 in the morning.
Senator:I think it was later. I remember getting up at, like, 5:30 at that that morning. Yeah. And you had you guys had just gotten home or something.
Senator:So No. It wasn't that bad.
Poobah:It was close, but it was fun.
Gizmo:I just remember getting text messages after I had sourced 2 50 cabs during COVID. Very, very harrowing. Mhmm.
Rooster:I had nothing to do with it. So Yeah. Someone someone started it.
Gizmo:I'll load the whole thing.
Poobah:You were there.
Gizmo:No. No. Rooster wasn't there. He was at home. Rooster lit
Senator:it alone first before any of us, told us it was amazing so that we all spoke to med poobas.
Rooster:Exactly. Out of my 50 cab, not out of his.
Bam Bam:Excuse me?
Gizmo:And I was sitting home. So, boys, what are you getting on the light?
Rooster:It's actually pretty good on the light.
Bam Bam:It's pretty pleasant. Yeah. Mhmm.
Poobah:It's always so awesome on the light. Isn't it? Yeah.
Rooster:And so far, it's just cedar for me.
Bam Bam:Really?
Rooster:Tobacco, cedar, little little cocoa.
Bam Bam:I'm cocoa.
Gizmo:Like a like a just a touch of vanilla.
Bam Bam:So A
Gizmo:touch of vanilla.
Bam Bam:The last time we had this, the 3 of us on Poopa's deck, I got a lot of white chocolate, and I was pretty accurate then. I'm getting a touch of that now. Some vanilla maybe. Cedar is all there for me. Wow.
Senator:Definitely. I get all right. I get all the above. The only thing, there's a creaminess to this on the light. There is, like, cream.
Gizmo:Yeah. It's almost like you've sipped a coffee with, like, half and half in it or something. That feeling you get on the front of your mouth from the from the cream as senator is saying.
Rooster:Mhmm.
Gizmo:It's kind of like that feeling for me.
Bam Bam:It's nice.
Rooster:It's kinda like a Davidoff right now to me. Like, the beginning notes of, like, a grand crew.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That's I think that's
Poobah:pretty fair.
Rooster:Yeah. Because Davidoffs are usually a little creamy and cedar.
Bam Bam:Well, you're a Grand Cru man.
Rooster:Yeah. I like the Grand Cru. Grand Cru number 3.
Senator:Big, big, mild cigar guy. I gotta say, I'm really shocked you love that syrup. It's very mild.
Rooster:In the morning. The palate's kinda changed a little bit. Right? I mean, I I like the Grand Cru number 3, but I today, I had the Millennium, short Robusto.
Bam Bam:Look at
Senator:what we're hearing right now.
Bam Bam:Someone's got big shots. Revelation.
Senator:No more Pedro 90th in the morning. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. It's been a while.
Gizmo:And for me, it's been a while since I've had one of these cigars. I can't you know? Yeah. Obviously, we we smoked them together after we initially got that cabinet that we were just talking about. Mhmm.
Gizmo:We smoked a few of them. Some of them were really good. Some of them were duds out of that same 50 cab.
Senator:Very true.
Gizmo:And, I haven't touched them since. Yeah. You know? So this is the first time returning to that, really, only because of the podcast and because of doing this and trying to check the boxes of all the Double Corona's regular production. Like, I would not be reaching for this if it wasn't for us sitting down to do this tonight.
Rooster:I mean, at this point, this cigar, I would I would definitely be buying this.
Gizmo:Yeah. Just thought I would If we can get more out of that same 50 cap. That same exact one. Same exact one.
Rooster:It's coming. It's
Gizmo:very good right now.
Bam Bam:It just stays consistent all the way.
Senator:Just look at the cap of the cigar. That's the roller's DNA and just pick out the ones that came from the same roller.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. I should cut
Rooster:every cigar and find the dimple.
Gizmo:Yeah. The one thing I will say, my draw is a little resistant, which is fine.
Bam Bam:Me too.
Gizmo:I will say that and and this is common for most double coronas out of Cuba that we have. I'm always disappointed by the combustion. I'm always disappointed by the smoke output, how much smoke I get in my mouth. It's always a little lackluster. Even if the flavor is good, I just wish there was a little bit more smoke.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I think you need to up your pace a bit on this thing to get that combustion going. Just a little bit.
Rooster:But I'm happy with the draw. I like the draw just the way it is. Me too. I don't like it way too open.
Bam Bam:It's fine.
Senator:My mine is a little more resistant than I would like it to be. Because the thing is, like, anything what's the ring gauge again on this? 49. 49. Alright.
Senator:I mean, that's not a big ring gauge. But I guess just a big cigar generally, whether it's, you know, obviously, this is, a significant length. You just you want and expect a lot of combustion because you're you're, like, committing to spending a lot of time with that cigar. So I kinda feel the same way Gizmo does where I'm disappointed when I have a big cigar, and I don't have a ton of combustion coming from it.
Rooster:What do you think about the flavor, though? I think it's good.
Bam Bam:The retrohale is actually very, very good.
Rooster:Retro is great.
Bam Bam:It's delicious. Yeah.
Gizmo:Actually, I think right now for me, the retro might be better than the actual
Bam Bam:as well. It is. It is.
Poobah:The first third of the of every hoyo I've ever smoked has been good.
Gizmo:And then
Poobah:it just Double corona. You know?
Rooster:How's how's your draw?
Poobah:Draw's draw's okay. Draw's okay. Just snug enough. I mean, I have no complaints about the draw. Grindr, what's up?
Senator:I just I'm not getting much from it, to be honest with you. It just seems kind of boring.
Rooster:How about the aroma from the foot?
Senator:The aroma from the foot is good. I'm definitely not getting much combustion. If you hadn't said that, I was gonna jump I was gonna say it right right on top of you.
Bam Bam:But you retrohale consistently. What do you say to that?
Senator:I'm getting, like, I'm kind of getting a sour
Bam Bam:On the retro?
Senator:Yeah. And, it's not great.
Rooster:Sour like sourdough or like a sour taste?
Senator:Like a sour taste. Like a tangy Really?
Bam Bam:Yeah. I'm not getting that at all.
Gizmo:Well, there's the inconsistency right there.
Senator:Like, it's not I wish I you guys are describing the cigar so wonderfully. The the milk chocolate, I I kinda got that at first and the cream. I'm just I'm jealous because I'm not getting everything that you're getting with this.
Bam Bam:I'm I'm enjoying this right now. I just want this to stay.
Senator:Will you share your cigar with Grindr? Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. We could be get the cigar. A better friend.
Bam Bam:Give me the alcohol wipes. Let me clean it off there.
Poobah:What's the that's the kind of I think the cigar sets up in a way that makes it, like, almost sets it up for a fall sometimes. Because it starts out really nice in the 1st 3rd, and then the middle, it starts to change. And then by the the last 3rd just in my past experience. I'm not saying that this but, hopefully, this won't happen here. But, we're in the last 3rd.
Poobah:It just kind of gets sharp. The edges aren't round. And, but who knows? It's been a while since we smoked these. I mean, these have gotta be 20 19s or 20 twenties.
Poobah:Yep. Like what we smoked before, and we smoked that cigar young, maybe. We did. I think I've but I've had that, but you know what? But from that same batch, I had others, many others, and it was the same it was
Gizmo:a similar experience. So Yeah. They're very hit or miss. And and, you know, coming out of a 50 cab, what's unfortunate for me given the price of these, which is somewhere between $40.50 a stick. Right?
Gizmo:So on a 50 cab, you're spending between $2.25100 fresh
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:To then have to sit on them for 3 to 5 years maybe
Bam Bam:5 years.
Gizmo:Ideally to get the best out of it.
Poobah:Correct.
Gizmo:And then still, a significant percentage of those cigars are gonna give you trouble. Mhmm. And you're gonna have to take the perfect draw, and you're gonna have to fight them a little bit.
Bam Bam:Like I did earlier.
Gizmo:And you're gonna get weird taste
Bam Bam:in
Gizmo:the taste notes as grinder's getting.
Rooster:Yeah. But it's
Gizmo:It's unfortunate.
Rooster:I mean, all the all the cigars in the 50 cab are rolled with the same tobacco. And there's, you know, 6 of us in the room. 5 of us are getting this almost the same exact flavor note. Almost. But grinder is not.
Rooster:That's that's odd to me.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Are you calling me
Senator:a liar?
Gizmo:That's just the inconsistency of the rollers. You know? They they
Rooster:color match
Gizmo:them and That wouldn't change. Their effort
Bam Bam:their effort to color match, they're taking from multiple rollers to match color sequencing, and you don't know who's doing what.
Rooster:Once it
Bam Bam:goes in a box.
Rooster:But that would change the construction, not the flavor.
Gizmo:If they're having a bad day and they're putting the wrong amount of leaves in the wrong places in the cigar, They're putting the wrong, you know, recipe in the cigar. That's absolutely what Grindr's experiencing. It's gonna happen with a cigar that looks identical coming out of the box. Do you
Rooster:know the box code on this?
Gizmo:I don't. I know it's 2019. I don't know the, the box code.
Alain Crevet:Wondering what
Gizmo:type of thing. It's a provincial that, all the, Hoya 50 caps come out of. It's not a mother factory.
Poobah:The burn is good. My the construction on mine is quite nice.
Bam Bam:I think
Rooster:we're all
Poobah:The seams are the seams are invisible. I mean, it's a it's a handsome cigar. I see a sheen on the wrapper. Absolutely. And so that's positive.
Senator:Yeah. I I agree with Pupa. I mean, this is one of the best constructed double Coronas I've seen. I mean, the the wrapper looks beautiful on this cigar, and, like Pupa said, razor sharp burn. I have no complaints with the construction.
Senator:It's just, I hope the flavor holds.
Poobah:Yeah. Yeah. And I and you guys were taught sometimes I find if I, if I slow down on this cigar, I get better combustion, more time between draws. If you heat this up, you're gonna get less smoke. You know, let it settle and then and then hit it, and then it's gonna it it'll combust maybe a little bit better.
Poobah:Yeah. So it may take some patience to to get what you want out of it upfront. Who knows? But This cigar is
Gizmo:certainly a time commitment. When you sit down to light this, you are committing to at least an hour 40, if not 2 hours on it.
Bam Bam:You know, we did the punch double corona. Same thing. Right? Same dimension.
Poobah:You know, which is great because when you sit down and everybody that's one of the things that's great about this podcast. You
Rooster:know,
Bam Bam:we sit
Poobah:down and we we all kinda we all light up the same same cigar.
Gizmo:So, boys, the factory name of this cigar is the Prominentis, and let's go through some of the other cigars that Hoyo makes in regular production. They have the Coronations with this, which is a Petite Coronas, the Double Corona that we're smoking tonight, the Epicure number 1, which is a Corona Gorda, we did that on the podcast. The sister cigar to that, the Epicure number 2, which is the Robusto 50 ring gauge by a little under 5 inches. We also did that one. The La Jolla Du Mer, which is a small panatella, the Palmas Extra Corona, the La Jolla
Rooster:de depute.
Gizmo:La Jolla du Depute, short panatella. Some French influence there.
Bam Bam:Depew. Depew. Depew.
Gizmo:Pepe Le Pew.
Senator:Alain is gonna be very disappointed with that pronunciation. Oh.
Gizmo:At least I got his name right. He's gonna tell you to stay back, Giz.
Bam Bam:Hey, Giz.
Gizmo:The Petite Robustos, which is obviously a Petite Robusto, the Epicura Special, Robusto Extra, and then they have a couple La Casa del Habano exclusive releases, the Epicure Deluxe, La La Jolla de San Juan, and the Elajantes, which is another one we did on the podcast, which is the perfecto, the tacos. We'll talk about that rating in a bit. And then finally, routing out those is the Lojollo de Rio Seco and the new La Casa del Habano release, which is another double corona, very similar in size to this, a little shorter. It's called the Escoguidos, which I've seen some people talking about, which has the, the second band on it for the LCDH. The souvenir deluxe, which comes in those weird tins, 5 pack tins.
Gizmo:And then finally and this is the one I wanted to save for last because I know that senator was talking about this one having come home when he came home from Cuba the last trip he was there, the new epicure number 3, which is I guess almost like a a short pyramid?
Senator:Yeah. It is. Really?
Gizmo:Like a robusto pyramid almost.
Poobah:Did you smoke it?
Senator:I did. It's great. Wow.
Bam Bam:What shop? What trees?
Senator:Get it out.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Senator.
Senator:Cohib atmosphere. Oh, nice. I was shocked. They they had a a nice looking box. And, yeah, it it's it's maybe the same size, if not a little bit longer than a a petite number 2 Monty.
Poobah:Gotcha.
Senator:And, it was a very nice experience.
Bam Bam:Wow. Same ring gauge?
Gizmo:That cigar is 54 by 4 and 7 eighths inches. So
Poobah:This was this was in Cuba.
Senator:Yeah. Yeah.
Alain Crevet:Yeah. Cool. But that's
Poobah:like listening to country music in Texas. Sounds so much better. You know, eating a taco in Mexico. Tastes way better. Smoking a Hoyo and a hotdog.
Poobah:We gotta get it stateside. He's not wrong.
Gizmo:Smoking Ahoyo and Hawthorne. So we're gonna that'll probably be the next one we do. I mean, we don't we don't go to, you know, for how large the line is, we don't go to hoyle a lot. Right?
Poobah:That's what I was trying that that was what the joke was.
Rooster:I
Gizmo:know. But I'm saying
Senator:that we Let me just say this. For me to say anything nice about an oil, that that's a that's a pretty big statement. Yeah.
Poobah:Yeah. You're an emotional guy. You get caught up in the moment too.
Alain Crevet:That's true too.
Poobah:But, you know, come on. You're you're not you're you're a Virgo, but you're not that practical.
Senator:Not every cigar in Havana is great. I hate to break
Rooster:it to you.
Poobah:Absolutely not. I'm teasing you.
Senator:Alright. No, no oil number, f p 3 for, poo bot.
Rooster:Oh, wait. Wait. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,
Gizmo:boys, Joya De Monterrey has been around a very, very long time. We've covered the history on other podcasts. 1 of the Cuban brands that's been around the longest, it was founded in 18/65. And like I said, even though we've only done 3 others on the podcast and just went through a long line of cigars that they have available in regular production. It's certainly one of the most recognized cigar brands in the world.
Gizmo:There's no question about it. It was established, like I said, in 18/65 by a guy named Jose Jener de Batet, who was originally from Spain, immigrated to Cuba, began growing tobacco in Vuelta Abajo, which obviously is known for producing the best tobacco in the world, certainly from Cuba. The name, Jolla De Monterrey translates to the whole of Monterrey, which refers to the concave landscape of the plantation area where the original plantation was for Pollo de Monterrey Tobacco. Pollo de Monterrey quickly gained prominence as a high quality brand, but by the late 19th century, it became one of the leading export brands from Havana. Certainly, I think still holds quite a big market share as one of the global brands in the Habanos portfolio.
Gizmo:In 1931, the founder died, and his daughter and her husband took over for a short period of time, and then the brand was sold off a bunch of times. And then it is what it is now, in the hands of Habanos. So a very, very long history coming up on a 100 it's over a 150 years
Rooster:now Mhmm.
Gizmo:Since the since the line was founded.
Senator:And for double coronas, I feel like this oil is easily one of the most popular.
Rooster:Mhmm.
Senator:Like, Alex Rodriguez. This is, like, one of his favorite cigars. You always see when he posts, like, a cigar photo on the golf course. He's usually smoking this. There are, like, lots of people that chase the cigar, which I think is why we initially really wanted to try it.
Bam Bam:That's right. We've we've learned the hard way a few times.
Rooster:Yeah. It's been it's been a hit or miss with the cigar.
Bam Bam:Which is the mark of this entire Marco, more or less the inconsistency.
Gizmo:But when
Rooster:the when these are good, they are fantastic. Yeah.
Senator:Yeah. And I I'm also kind of curious. I mean, if you think about it, obviously, you know, we've had mixed experiences with Cuban cigars from a variety of different years.
Rooster:Mhmm.
Senator:We've noted how recently the quality has been better. I wonder what, like, a 22, you know, 23 one of these would be like with some age on it.
Bam Bam:I'm not sure if you mentioned it. How did that, epi number 3 perform?
Alain Crevet:Great.
Bam Bam:No issues? No? No. No rough edges. Really?
Bam Bam:It was great.
Gizmo:And you smoked a a couple of you. You were with some friends.
Senator:I was the only one who had it.
Gizmo:Oh, you were the only one who had it.
Bam Bam:Okay. Alright. Okay. Interesting. I don't
Poobah:think it's a coincidence that that petite torpedo size, are sleepers. And Mhmm. People, they kinda tend to perform well like the money too. Petite. Interesting.
Senator:It was a different flavor profile from all the other epis I've had before, which was pretty cool.
Poobah:That is cool. That is cool.
Senator:But in a good way.
Poobah:But, yeah, that's great.
Gizmo:Would you say it had more body to it? Was it a better smoke?
Rooster:Like, what how
Gizmo:would you compare? Because the way I think about it is the Epicure number 2 is a little bit sweeter. Yep. Kind of more classic robusto.
Bam Bam:Epi 1 is
Gizmo:more robust. Very earthy. Earthy.
Senator:Super earthy.
Gizmo:Like, almost like yeah. Leather and almost like Yeah. Yeah. Minerally
Alain Crevet:A bit.
Gizmo:In a way. You know? So how how would you have described the, epi 3?
Senator:This I would describe as right in between and more cedar than either the epi 1 or the epi 2. And I don't love a ton of cedar in this cigar, but it was done in, like, the right way. It was not overpowering, a little creamy, some, like, faint baking spice, some nuttiness. It it it was fairly complex.
Gizmo:It's not
Poobah:a Like, what you would want out of an EPI 2. Yeah.
Gizmo:Good one. Mhmm.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, it's a it's a pretty mild cigar, but, like, just enough flavor that it keeps you interested, and the last third actually picked up in a nice way. That's great.
Gizmo:And how much was that cigar?
Senator:I wanna say maybe $18. Oh, that's
Gizmo:not bad.
Bam Bam:Not bad at all.
Gizmo:Okay. I like when I see anything from Habanos that's quality, sub 20. Yeah. Anything under $20 that's good from Habanos
Bam Bam:that run.
Gizmo:So we definitely have to try that at some point on the pod. I know that they're just coming out. They were announced in 22. They were finally released in late 23. So that's obviously why you found it in Havana earlier this year.
Gizmo:So, hopefully, we'll be able
Poobah:to get a box of those, a box of 10. It's interesting about f p twos in that I've had some that are like what senator had on roosters deck a couple years back where he was just
Senator:Gushing. Surrounded by
Poobah:gushing, and and it was amazing. And then I've I have some I still have a few left that I bought in Tubos that have gotta have, like, 6 or 7 years of of age on them. You know what I mean? But those were like they smoked, like, more like a d 4.
Bam Bam:Dude, we were gushing on your deck when we smoked these. They were incredible.
Poobah:No. No. No.
Gizmo:No. I was talking about the Epi 2.
Poobah:I'm talking about the Epi 2. Like, just hoyo in general where there was more pepper, there was more spice, but in a good way.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Poobah:Not as much dessert flavor. So it's sometimes I I almost feel like I never know what I'm getting where with a Marco, like Upman, I feel like I know I'm getting this DNA or part of this. I know I'm getting this DNA all the time and there's, and there's a, there's some, there's a com a variability component, I think, to this Marco, that can leave a smoker bewildered.
Rooster:Mhmm.
Gizmo:I agree. And I think our ratings, and we'll go through that later, of Hoyo and our experiences with Hoyo reflect that. I mean, there's really no straight line or even a slightly curved line of flavor profiles that that swings its way through the brand. I mean, I would say this is very different than the Epi 2, which is very different from the Epi 1, which is very different from the EpiCure deluxe, which is very different from what you're saying you found in the Epicure number 3. So those are 4 or 5 cigars right there that are very, very
Rooster:Distinct.
Gizmo:Vastly different. Mhmm.
Rooster:Where I
Gizmo:think some of these other brands, to your point, have a little bit more of a straight line as far as what you can expect in the flavor profile. Mhmm. At least from the core line as
Bam Bam:far as It's like consistent DNA. Right? Exactly.
Senator:But what what Puba brings up an interesting point because there there's variation, sure, across the line, but what he's saying is even within a particular cigar, like the EPI 2, there's, like, wild variations somehow, which should not be the case. Like, you know, if you get one box of d fours, another box of d fours, are they gonna smoke exactly the same? No. There is some variation, but it's, like, so stark in oil where that epi 2 I lit, that night we were at, rooster's place, honestly, was one of the best Cuban cigars I've ever smoked. It was that.
Senator:I'll never forget. Gizmo, I think, was sitting somewhere near me.
Poobah:I was sitting there.
Senator:And yours and just the aroma when I was just, blowing the smoke out.
Poobah:It was like orange peel plus
Senator:Like, guys were commenting saying
Bam Bam:And senators breakfast that day.
Poobah:It's like an orange it was like an orange cookie or something. Yeah.
Rooster:I mean,
Senator:it was just, like, dessert notes and citrus. And people who weren't even smoking it could experience it and were commenting, what are used lighting? Like, that smells amazing. And I'll never forget that. And then I just, you know, fast forward a few months later and Puba says to me, you've gotta try these Epi twos I have in Tubos.
Senator:They're, like, fuller bodied and, like, totally different from what you would normally get. And I lit 1, and it was a complete
Gizmo:I mean, it It was good.
Poobah:It was good.
Senator:But it smoked more like a d 4. It smoked more like a partagus What? Which is not what OYO is doing.
Gizmo:Percent. Maybe they put the wrong bands on them that day.
Poobah:No, I swear to you.
Gizmo:That could happen. I mean, it could happen.
Poobah:It could happen. I mean, it could happen. It smoked more like a D4.
Bam Bam:Look, man. Shit happens. Shit happens.
Rooster:It's like we ran out of d 4 boxes.
Gizmo:Fuck it.
Poobah:Put them
Gizmo:in the tubes.
Poobah:Shit happens, man.
Senator:I say that because if you think about even the cigar we're smoking right now, the very first one when we lit this at Pubas, all of us were singing its praises how good this cigar was. I made as bold a statement as this may be the best Cuban cigar I'd ever
Rooster:had.
Bam Bam:I did the same.
Senator:That's how yeah. Ben was right there with me. I mean, that's how amazing the experience was. And then the next 3 of them from the same cab I lit, I hated. So I just the variation within oil in a single cigar.
Senator:Right? They there's no reason that every double
Rooster:oil double corona should smoke
Senator:wildly differently. Mhmm. I don't get why that's the
Rooster:case for this brand
Senator:in a way that you don't see that level of variation for the others.
Bam Bam:Grinders gears are turning right now.
Senator:Well, I've been I've been I think I'm a little ahead of you guys because I've been trying to
Alain Crevet:gotten better.
Gizmo:Fighting it a little bit?
Senator:I've been not fighting it. I'm trying to work with it.
Poobah:But how
Rooster:has it gotten?
Senator:Has it gotten better? It's gotten a lot better. Yeah. That's the thing. It turned, and those those notes you guys had in the beginning
Bam Bam:White chocolate, vanilla.
Senator:And cocoa, though.
Bam Bam:Cocoa. Yeah. Those 3 are there.
Senator:The cocoa is is definitely in there.
Bam Bam:And I've been it's sad to say that it's surprising how well this is smoking and how tasty it is.
Poobah:Right now, I'm very, very happy with the cigar.
Senator:Me too.
Poobah:I'm very, very happy with it. But, again, we're at the turning point. This is like the end of the first
Bam Bam:The hammer. We're waiting for the hammer
Rooster:to drop.
Poobah:Right? Like like the shoe, there's like a a shoe hanging. Is it gonna drop? I don't know. I hope it doesn't because I'm really enjoying the cigar.
Poobah:It's a it's an hour. What? An hour and 30 minutes cigar? Yep. Come on.
Poobah:If this thing continues like this, I'm a very happy person
Rooster:It is.
Poobah:With my friends and Very nice. Together and everything. But if it get if it if, you know Mhmm. If she, you know, if she starts to get get mean
Bam Bam:you're gonna have to slam the door. No.
Poobah:I mean, I'm gonna have to take action.
Gizmo:So, boys, these cigars come in 2, package varieties at the moment. It comes in a dress box of 25 cigars, and like, we're smoking tonight, these cigars came out of a slide lid box of 50 cigars. They used to come in cardboard pack of 3 cigars discontinued in 2006, and wow, I mean, this would have been awesome. A cajon of a 100 cigars. We've talked about
Poobah:Oh, lord.
Gizmo:Cajons before. A 100 cigars in a bundle coming in a can imagine that shipment showing up to your house.
Bam Bam:Not a 100 of these, but a 100 of d fours.
Gizmo:A 100 a 100 of something.
Bam Bam:100 Upman twos.
Gizmo:Yeah. The cajon would be the cajon would be pretty nice.
Senator:I wish these existed because if that were the case, we'd all have multiple towers.
Bam Bam:Sure. We would.
Senator:Because we'd have no choice.
Rooster:And
Bam Bam:we'd be bankrupting ourselves.
Poobah:Or we can or we can just combine them our boxes into the Tupperware lined with cedar.
Gizmo:So the band on these cigars is a little different than most of the line. This is the standard band a that's been in use since the 19 twenties. Obviously, I think now it's embossed, which is a little different. But this is the classic Oille De Monterrey band that's been used for
Rooster:Mhmm.
Gizmo:For over a 100 years now. And then the standard band e, was brought in in 2003, which is used across most of the rest of the lines. So the band you get on the double Corona is very different than the band you'll see on the Epicure number 2, the Epicure number 1, and most of the other cigars in the line. They reserve this bigger band for, larger ring gauge cigars. But I don't know what other cigars this band comes on.
Gizmo:It might only be the Double Corona at this point. Mhmm.
Rooster:I think so.
Poobah:It's It's only the double corona.
Senator:Tell you the ring gauge. Have you ever noticed when you, like, peel off a a Cuban band that it'll tell you the range of ring gauge that they use the band for? There's a number there.
Rooster:Yeah. What's the, Chinese symbol? Chinese?
Bam Bam:Is it in
Senator:the middle? Yeah. I mean, it does kinda look like a Chinese character.
Gizmo:Like a Chinese car yeah. It really does I think it's just the crown. Yeah. The arm It's the devil. The diablos.
Gizmo:Diablo.
Senator:I I think it's just the way it's embossed.
Gizmo:Yeah. It's a it's a not a high detail embossed.
Poobah:I do highly recommend after you ash purge just a little bit and blow out. It's worked out nicely the last two times I've done it. It just cleans it up.
Gizmo:This is good.
Poobah:I'm happy right now.
Rooster:I mean, this
Senator:is very good.
Gizmo:So far, I think the cigar is okay. It's very mild for me at the moment. Better better than okay.
Bam Bam:It's better than okay.
Gizmo:Cedar is there. I'm getting a little bit of the cocoa, a little bit of vanilla.
Rooster:Mhmm.
Gizmo:But it's just not giving me enough. Like, I feel like it's, like, screaming at me from the other room. Yeah. Like, it's not right
Bam Bam:It's not a powerful cigar, so I understand what you're saying. But there's just enough flavor, and I like what senator said earlier, to keep you interested for me.
Gizmo:I'm hoping as we get into the second, third, and the last third in a little bit. I'm hoping that it just picks up a little bit and Yeah. Gives me a little more. I'm willing to invest the time in a cigar like this knowing that it's gonna be a 3 act play or hoping that it's gonna be
Bam Bam:Well, you're gonna invest that time too.
Gizmo:I'm gonna invest that time too.
Bam Bam:Ain't going nowhere.
Gizmo:So like I said, Oia de Monterrey is one of the 6 global brands in the Habanos SA catalog. They say that the line comprises of mild strength cigars. I think sometimes they get mild medium or medium. And the mother factory of Buena Monterrey, as we know, is La Corona
Bam Bam:Correct.
Poobah:Which we've
Gizmo:been to many, many times. So so, boys, let's talk about our pairing tonight. Senator, what do we have? We have the Martell
Bam Bam:We got some good shit tonight.
Senator:We have the Martell blue swift.
Gizmo:You're celebrating the release of Taylor Swift's new album?
Senator:Oh, please. I've heard too much about that. I I know Taylor Swift on this. Please. Please.
Bam Bam:Are you giving her album a 10?
Senator:No. I'm not rating her album. Do you know how many calls I've been on work related where someone has decided to start the call by saying, so what's your favorite song on Taylor Swift's new album? And I just sit there in complete silence and watch these morons spend 10 minutes talking
Poobah:about this. Yeah. I'm so I'm very I'm sorry about that. That's
Gizmo:Well, we're celebrating tonight. So this is the Martell Blue Swift, which I think you were saying before we came on, it's a VSOP.
Senator:So, yes, it is a VSOP, but it's notable because it's the first VSOP cognac that's ever been aged in bourbon barrels. And the reason for it is Martell was the first, cognac house to actually ship cognac to the United States. And so to kinda commemorate the special relationship that Martell has with the US being the first supplier of cognac to this country, they decided to age it in bourbon barrels and, come up with a a new expression that's very popular. I mean, I've always seen good reviews of this. This is my first time trying it.
Senator:I've never drank it before. Same here. But, it's, it's pretty cool. I also you know, it's kinda fitting. We had, our, our interview with, Alain, who lives in France.
Senator:And so to kinda commemorate our friendship with, Alain, I think it's very fitting and an American and French, connected spirit.
Poobah:You know what I love about it? I love that it's just a little bit drier. Not just a little bit. Like, maybe significantly drier, than other Cognacs that we've that that we really like. It's got a drier finish, and and it's really nice, I think, in in a rotation.
Poobah:Yeah. It's not that sweet. It doesn't which is good. I mean, sometimes I want a cognac after dinner. That's what
Alain Crevet:we'll do.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Poobah:More sweet, but this is a little bit more dry, and I, probably from the burp maybe it's from the the the the bourbon sauce.
Senator:I think it's from that charred bourbon barrel.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I also like I think because it's not so overtly sweet, it doesn't overpower the cigar.
Gizmo:I agree with that.
Senator:I'm very happy
Gizmo:about that.
Bam Bam:Works pretty nicely with this thing.
Senator:Yeah. It's super smooth.
Bam Bam:I mean, we're all drinking
Senator:this knead, and I there's no way you would need ice for this.
Bam Bam:I need a refill
Poobah:in a moment. Right. Which is a merit because, like, sometimes with that dryness comes a little bit of of heat. Mhmm. And that doesn't have this at all.
Poobah:So right now, it's something I would definitely look at buying and and putting in my liquor cabinet.
Bam Bam:How much is this bottle?
Senator:It's a reasonable price point. At total wine, it's, 55 a bottle.
Gizmo:Oh, I was expecting it to be more.
Senator:I had to be 80. I had to pick this up in a pinch last minute. So the local this local shop that I'm not a fan of, charges 65 for it. They also add another 2 and a half percent if you use a credit card there. So $71 a day.
Rooster:It's a
Gizmo:new it's a new technology in the credit card.
Poobah:You know, I don't like this trend.
Gizmo:It's not good. No. It's not good.
Poobah:Like this trend. I don't like this trend at all.
Senator:Pupa, I'm very sorry to hear that.
Poobah:Does anyone else like this trend? No.
Bam Bam:No. No. We hate it.
Senator:Makes me wanna use cash everywhere.
Poobah:It's not even a trend. It's like a it's becoming, like, more normalized, which is disturbing.
Rooster:This is all this is all post COVID, by the way.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Totally. It
Gizmo:is. I don't understand. I, you know, I I thought it was illegal at least with the credit card, agreements. I mean, obviously, I own a business. I know most a lot of us do.
Gizmo:And, you know, when you have a credit card machine, the agreement is you have to charge the same as cash. So I don't know how they're getting around that. I'm sure there's gonna be some legislation coming at some point about it, offering, you know, a discount for cash or, you know, allowing a premium to be paid to use a credit card. But it's like it's it's 2024 here. Like, nobody wants to be carrying cash.
Senator:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the administration's gone after junk fees. This is like the definition of a junk fee.
Alain Crevet:Oh, yeah.
Senator:There's no reason to do this. And I think what makes it so egregious, it's happening so much more like we're talking about, but it is still the case that a majority of businesses don't do this. Absolutely. Like, you really stick out when you're the retailer that does it. And it just it pisses me off every time.
Senator:Like, that's one of the many reasons that I don't like going to that particular liquor store to procure stuff. Because if I go to Total Wine, if I go to most other liquor stores, they're not charging me an extra credit card fee.
Gizmo:To me, it's you know, to me and and as a business owner, just build it in your entire price and let it be in the price. And, you you know, you account
Poobah:for that. 100%. Yeah.
Alain Crevet:If people
Poobah:are willing If people are willing to pay that extra 3%, what it, I wouldn't even call it a premium, but that, whatever that price is, then that's, that's, that's fair and square. It's it feels you feel like a little bit taken advantage of. Absolutely.
Rooster:Yeah. I hate it. Yeah. I mean, a lot of lot of the POS systems now have that built in. Like, when you're getting it, you actually have to call them and tell them to, hey.
Rooster:Listen. I don't want this. Yeah.
Gizmo:Take it off.
Rooster:Street. Please have that taken off.
Gizmo:Silly.
Poobah:I was in the airport today in Palm Beach International at, like, 1 o'clock. And and and I went to go they they eliminated in in the, whatever it is, the MSNBC shop. I don't know what it's called.
Bam Bam:The MSNBC shop.
Poobah:Well, that sells magazines and candy and and I know exactly what
Rooster:you're saying. Sandwiches. Yeah. Not like that.
Senator:No. It's it's actually an MSNBC branded.
Poobah:It's very strange. But but but, anyway, I'm in there. There's no cashier. There's 2 kiosks you scan. They obviously have cameras.
Poobah:It's an airport. You're not getting away if you're a shop, but if there, you can't get out. And you walk in, but then you scan your stuff and it says, would you like to leave it? You know, you scan it and you matriculate through the checkout process. Would you like to leave it to who?
Poobah:Who am I leaving it to? Who am I leaving a tip?
Rooster:There's
Poobah:no one here. I'm leaving a a tip to a computer?
Gizmo:How much did how much did how much did you
Bam Bam:tip? 0.
Gizmo:0. I could see him just panicking and hitting 20%.
Poobah:No. I mean but, this is reality, man. I mean, this is what's happening out there. So then when you got to stare the barista in the face, it's like, yeah, I'd like a caramel macchiato medium. And they're like, you mean grande?
Poobah:And they're like, yes, grande. And then do you like staring them in the face? And it's like, it's asking you to tip the barista.
Bam Bam:And they're looking right at you.
Poobah:And they're looking right
Senator:at you. It's so awkward.
Poobah:Is anyone else annoyed by this? I
Senator:don't know. Yes.
Bam Bam:Beats of sweat develop on your forehead.
Gizmo:Yeah. I I I I really don't like it. I know that tip culture is a major problem.
Bam Bam:Agreed.
Poobah:I but I am, like, ultimate type culture person to the point where, like, I get $2 bills from the bank and tip people with them. Like, I like Big tipper.
Rooster:Oh, let me tell you something.
Poobah:The $2 bills, people love it. People love the $2 bills. Actually, they cut, they come, you get them banded and you can tip the valet and say, here you go. My name, my name's poo ba. And he's like, my name's Aaron.
Poobah:And I'm just like, all right. And then they never forget you with the $2 bill. Kids love them in restaurants. Kids love $2 bills. You have $2 bills.
Poobah:You see a little baby walking around. You're like, what? And you hold, you hold it up like a toddler and you're like $2 here's 2 dollars you want $2 you hold up $2 and the kids come running. We were at a birthday party a few weeks ago.
Senator:Do you know how many parents are probably so creeped out watching this happen? No. Stay away from that band. No.
Rooster:No. They no. They no. They love it.
Poobah:Because the kids are walking around the and you give them the date and they come back to go. I'm rich, daddy. I'm rich. It's funny. It's a lot of fun.
Poobah:$2 bills are fun.
Gizmo:So I gotta say about this cognac tonight that I think there's an added level of complexity, and I don't know if it's because of the bourbon barrel or it's just a good VSOP, but it it tastes really rich
Bam Bam:And smooth.
Gizmo:And smooth, and it tastes like it has more age on it than it does.
Bam Bam:And, you know That's the dry finish, I think, and he's accurate,
Gizmo:imperfections that we've tasted in other VSOPs have been either eliminated or it could be covered up by whatever has happened in that Process. In that Mhmm. Bourbon finish.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You
Gizmo:know? But I think it's a really nice pairing with the cigar.
Bam Bam:Very good.
Senator:Like, I I think there's I think you mentioned there was, like, a cherry scent on the on the on the nose.
Bam Bam:For me.
Senator:I can that kinda, like, may like, it sticks around for me a little bit. And I think that complements this the cigar in a way where it doesn't it's not like a match, but it elevates
Rooster:it a little bit. Yeah.
Senator:So that cherry note is signature Martell. So if you guys remember when we did the VSOP, you get a lot of cherry in that. Martell generally is not as sweet as some of the other cognac brands, but, like, their regular VSOP, the cherry is so pronounced that it's definitely sweeter than this. So, like, the bourbon barrel has tamed that, and I think just delivered like a richer Smoother. Drier Yeah.
Senator:Smoother finish.
Gizmo:Do you
Senator:think it's sacrilegious to put any ice in here? Because I have a, like, a little bit left. I'm in this class. I might just
Gizmo:try it. I think to me, I think I think water ice in this is gonna change it
Bam Bam:I agree.
Alain Crevet:In a
Gizmo:way that would be very negative. And I
Bam Bam:I would I
Rooster:would not
Senator:put ice in this.
Gizmo:Yeah. I'm not feeling that I want to put any sort of ice or water
Poobah:and Correct.
Gizmo:I like you know, we've talked about this in the past. I do like my liquor, like, chilled in a way. Yeah. But this room temperature
Bam Bam:But not cognac. Is good. Cognac's cold. No.
Senator:No. No. You you can put ice in in cognac, and especially some of the
Gizmo:Oh, yes.
Senator:Lesser age stuff, you definitely want ice in there. The the big thing for me, my rule of thumb is any spirit that is drinks extremely smooth neat. There's no reason to put ice. I mean, if it's drinking super smooth already, ice is just gonna dilute that further. And then you're gonna be left with such a thin Yeah.
Senator:Just
Bam Bam:Watertight experience. Experience.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, that that's you know, when you have something with a bite, the ice obviously helps, you know, tame that a bit. Yeah. But when something's so smooth on its own, I just think at that point, you're you're kinda
Bam Bam:killing the spirit. Makes sense.
Poobah:Yeah. Higher proof spirits, I like more ice, or some some ice. That cherry aroma is really special.
Rooster:The cigar is kinda changing now.
Bam Bam:Yes. Not for the
Rooster:not for
Rooster:the not
Gizmo:for the good.
Rooster:No. Not I mean
Bam Bam:You think so?
Senator:I'm not having any
Bam Bam:experience like that.
Gizmo:Mine's mine's actually getting better with this
Alain Crevet:one.
Bam Bam:I agree.
Senator:I'm getting more cocoa now. Really.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You know, it's like that cocoy graham cracker thing that's happening for me right now a bit.
Gizmo:Yeah. I think the cigar is pretty pretty good at this point. It's picked up just a little bit. I guess, you know, we're coming to the end of the 1st 3rd here, going into the 2nd 3rd. I think, you know, the flavors that we were we've been talking about, I'm getting more of them now.
Gizmo:Yeah. I'm getting a little bit more combustion. I'm not having to push it as hard to get the combustion and the and the flavor. So right now, it's picked up a little little bit for me, and I wish it kinda started where it is right now, But, you know, we'll see where it goes.
Poobah:Yeah. There's just a little bit of,
Rooster:It's a little harshness that I'm
Poobah:ammonia y. What? Yeah.
Bam Bam:Not me.
Poobah:Things started just starting to present. Right? Just starting now. Wow. There's a little bit of a kind of a little bit of thing blow through your nose, and you're like, okay.
Poobah:There's a little bit of of that it it almost it's it's a little bit youth it it's it's a youthful taste, but maybe that's intentional. I don't know, but it's just starting to present now.
Bam Bam:I take your advice here, Puba, and I blow through this after a draw and then let it sit before I take another draw, and I haven't had any of that.
Gizmo:So you're purging.
Rooster:Oh, yeah. Every time?
Poobah:Every 3. 4, maybe. The purging really does help.
Bam Bam:And I don't I I'm trying to slow down now, so I don't get that experience, and I think that helps with a cigar like this.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's talk about our conversation that we had with the CEO of SD DuPont, Alain Cravet at PCA. I gotta say, we went into that conversation. Obviously, we had just met Alain a few minutes prior.
Rooster:Mhmm.
Gizmo:You know, we hadn't really spent any time with him, any significant time we had met him. He said, yep. I'll do it. Let's go. And we really went through a wide ranging conversation of his professional history, his family, manufacturing strategy, cigars and cognac, of course, which is very appropriate for what we do here, the Padron collaboration, which they announced to PCA celebrating the 60th anniversary of Padron.
Gizmo:Like, in 25, 30 minutes of conversation, we've really covered a lot of stuff. Incredible interview. I was really impressed with it.
Bam Bam:He's just such a absolute lizard. You know? Wonderful conversationalist, very intelligent, easy to talk to, very laid back, great, great interview just overall.
Senator:I I think the thing that stood out for me, just his passion for that brand. I mean, the listener will hear in the interview him talk about what that brand meant to him from a young age and when that job came up, how eager he was to go for it. And, I think a lot of us, we kinda looked at each other by the end of the interview. We're like, I need another DuPont. Like, we we wanted to, like, buy more of their products.
Senator:Like, he he had just it means so much to him what they put out and how they approach what they're doing. And that for me was just, really cool to see. Because, you know, these brands are oftentimes, particularly in the accessory space. Like, in the cigar space, you know, the the the heads of these brands, the CEOs, they're very public facing. So we know, you know, who's behind that operation.
Senator:Had we not met him at PCA, we would never
Bam Bam:No.
Senator:Know who's really behind and responsible for the operation of SD DuPont. And so to put a face to that and see the same level of passion that, Jorge Padron or a Carlito Fuente or some of those guys speak with, I for me was really powerful.
Bam Bam:What I find really interesting with him, most CEOs aren't down into the nuts and bolts of their business. Yeah. He gets into the craft of how his pieces are made down to the millisecond. I mean, he is really attuned to the shop. He calls it the shop.
Bam Bam:Yep. Right? He goes into the shop. He sees how they're made. He critiques.
Bam Bam:He meets with his staff. It's it's really compelling.
Gizmo:I I was really impressed with the fact that this isn't a CEO who's that role isn't changing every 3 to 5 years like it is at a lot of companies. He's been there since you know, they were having some very, very hard times when he came in 20 years ago, and he completely turned the business around. Yeah. So for a 20 year story to be to be told so eloquently to us on and off air, you know, in the conversation and even before and after we we had sat down with him, I I'm really impressed with the guy. Like, it really like like senator said, it made me wanna run out and buy an arrestee du Pont.
Bam Bam:For me, it
Senator:was the
Bam Bam:the pride of the handmade product that took me aback, how proud he was of that.
Rooster:Yeah. But he's also very in touch with the customer base, what the customer wants.
Rooster:Mhmm.
Rooster:Because he goes and he travels all over the world going to lounges and talking to people, going to the PCA. And he's he really knows what the customer base really wants. Yeah. And then it was interesting when he mentioned this, like, 1,200,000,000 smokers. Right?
Rooster:Yeah. And how little of the market they have captured and how much more they can. And he also talked about, like, maybe somebody mentioned, like, how, you know, smoking is kinda on a on a downturn. So maybe DuPont should look into some other things to Right. Kinda increase sales, but he kinda stuck to Yeah.
Rooster:Lighters. And so, you know, that's a that's a cigar accessory that everybody wants. If you're smoking a 40, $50 Cuban cigar, you don't wanna light it with a Bic Mhmm. Lighter. You know?
Rooster:You wanna have a nice lighter. You wanna have a nice experience.
Poobah:Correct. I think it speaks volumes, that he that he sat down and talked to that he talked to the podcast and spent the time. See, that that means something. You you met him an hour what? A half hour or 45 minutes, whatever you said Yeah.
Poobah:Before the interview, and he goes, I'll sit down. I'd love to sit down and talk to you about my brand. He said he listens to a proper blog. Yeah. And take the time and take the time out of his take the time that's valuable to him.
Poobah:So so that that's, to me, that, you know, that shows someone who, leads from the front and wants to get the message out about their brand and the value and talk about it. And that that says a lot, I think.
Senator:He was very 6 he was very accessible when we when we, you know, came to him with the idea. Even his whole team who were kind of orchestrating it for us, we're just we're just he's here to talk to people. Like, that's his that's the raisin de terre. That's he wants to be in front of the customer. He wants to make sure that the brand is getting well known.
Senator:And, you know, one of the things that struck me, I spent a lot of time at the SD DuPont booth at the time just waiting for him, and, you know, I was escorting him back in you know, between the the the recording space and just hanging out with him with his team who were like, this guy is so fun. He you know, we spent all this time with him doing this marketing thing or this all these places around the world, and he's so proud of the of the American office, as well and and the connection that, you know, this you know, there are 2 brothers that were salespeople who worked for him over here in the States. They both had so much love for this guy, and they they considered him as his brother, frankly, And it seemed like something that was he was very intimate with the operations
Rooster:and the
Gizmo:They'll probably
Rooster:sit around, drink, like, expensive French champagne, and
Senator:He's a lizard. Right?
Gizmo:2 pump lighters, to lights a horse.
Rooster:I mean, who doesn't want that job?
Bam Bam:Correct. That
Senator:that's the other thing. I mean, I was just gonna say, I think the thing that also really stood out with him, he is a total lizard.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Senator:And, you know, we're we're lucky to have such a global following like we do. And I think it's especially meaningful when we meet folks from other countries or listeners from other countries write us about, you know, how they, you know, smoke and go to lounges or smoke at home or kinda culturally how they approach this thing. And, for him, some of the stories that he shared, I mean, I think all of us were sitting there, like, I mean, he's no different than us.
Senator:You know?
Senator:Like, he lives across the pond and and everything from early on when he got into cigars to the present is very much like, you know, why we appreciate this and, why we do what we do. And so I thought that was just really cool. And Agreed. You know, he so graciously obviously invited us to come out to to France at some point to tour the facility where they hand make all the products. And, I I would, I think we're gonna take him up on on spending some more time
Bam Bam:with it. The work Bam Bam shop. Bam Bam will be in France. Oh, okay.
Alain Crevet:I mean, France
Poobah:That's gonna happen.
Rooster:I don't
Rooster:know if France is ready for No.
Bam Bam:They're not. They're gonna you know what? They're gonna get him anyway.
Poobah:Is Bam Bam ready for France?
Gizmo:That's a good question. Good.
Poobah:That's the question.
Bam Bam:Oh, you know he is.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. So we're gonna split this interview, this awesome conversation we have with, ST DuPont CEO Alain Cravail into 2 parts. And let's go to the first part of that right now, and we'll come back at the end of the second 3rd. Live from PCA 2024, we are sitting here with SD DuPont CEO, Alain Cravet. Thank you so much for being with us.
Alain Crevet:Pleasure being with you guys. You know? Hello, everybody.
Gizmo:It was a a chance meeting at the ST DuPont booth here that we were able to be connected with you, and you were so kind to come on and do an interview with us and talk to a little bit about your history in ST DuPont. So we're very, very grateful, and we're looking forward to getting into that with you.
Alain Crevet:No. As I said, really pleasure. I mean, you know, you guys look I mean, I I I love your blog, and, you know, I I'm looking forward to this, little chat.
Gizmo:You've been at ST DuPont almost 20 years now. Correct?
Alain Crevet:Yeah. Actually, like, you know, it's, 17 years. So it's a long long time, but, I I come from, you know I mean, before, I was also in luxury. I mean, I spent 7 years with LVMH, and I was in the perfume and cosmetics business before. I built for mister Arnault the perfume cosmetics branch.
Alain Crevet:I was CEO for Givenchy and Guerlain. We tried to organize by category. We also, you know, work closely with the fashion, because before, it was very much handled separately. But since I'm a huge cigar fan and and I'm from a DuPont family, I mean, my dad, had, of course, you know, a DuPont lighter, and we used to get together on weekends, have a cigar. And then, you know, for my it was still, allowed in those days.
Alain Crevet:I mean, when I graduated from my MBA, he gifted me a DuPont lighter, which I always have with me, but I keep it at home. So that's why, you know, when I I knew DuPont was looking for a CEO, I said, hey. That's my brand. Wow.
Bam Bam:I have
Alain Crevet:to I have to line up for that. Incredible. We were
Gizmo:very curious. You you had just launched, here at PCA, the the partnership with Padron, which is fantastic. Obviously, you have partnership with Habanos, but you also have partnership with Game of Thrones through HBO and Star Wars. So how do you what is your process of curating a partnership and developing that, through such a wide variety of of, you know, possible partners.
Alain Crevet:No. In fact, I mean, you know, we we we don't do so many partnerships. I mean, what we try to do, we are quite disciplined. Okay? We we have historically, we we love what all what is art and entertainment on the one hand.
Alain Crevet:And that's why, you know, I mean, we in as part of our history, for example, we are lucky enough that, you know, the famous painter, Pablo Picasso, loved the DuPont. He was smoking a lot, and he used to make little drawings on the liners. So we developed a couple of collections with the Picasso family and estate. And for me, as part of you know, we also did with Warhol and stuff like that. And and for me, the entertainment, you know, generally speaking, is also part of this whole, you know, art and entertainment.
Alain Crevet:That's why we also used to be partners with James Bond, for example, about back 10 years ago. That's why when we had the contact with, Warner Bros, and I I I'm a fan of Game of Thrones, so I said, well, it's a cool idea. Yeah. So let's create, you know, a line inspired by Game of Thrones. But, separately, as I mentioned, you know, I'm a huge fan of, of cigars, and and I have to say particularly of cumin cigars.
Gizmo:Ah, that's great. That's great.
Alain Crevet:That's why I signed, you know, a partnership in the past. We started with Cohiba, and then we did Cohiba, Bahique, and then Montecristo, and Partagas. Yep. And and we just did Trinidad. I mean, I'm just back from Cuba, actually.
Alain Crevet:Oh, fantastic. And and that's why here. Yeah. Here in the US, I I love Padron and Fuente but particularly Padron I mean I know Jorge and I like kind of you know understated beautiful you know family and and and the craftsmanship, I mean, the passion The
Gizmo:commitment to quality.
Alain Crevet:Exactly. So that's why when we talked about it, you were saying, guys, that my 60th anniversary, We just did a 150th anniversary of DuPont last year. So I said, it is a great thing. I'm I'm glad to do that. So that's why we have this kind of art entertainment on one hand and cigar on the other hand.
Bam Bam:What an incredible combination. Honestly, it's really fascinating.
Senator:And I have to say, we we love how global a brand, you know, SD DuPont is for us. We review new world cigars like Padron Fuente and all of those, as well as Cuban cigars. We alternate every week. We were just in Cuba, as a group for 10 days in January. We had interviewed the production manager, for Cohiba at El Aghido.
Rooster:El Aghido? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Senator:So we we really love the influence that you have there and those partnerships that you've been able to form.
Alain Crevet:I mean, we love them. Those those guys are really great. I mean, they're holding Habanos teams. You know, they are passionate also. But we found the same same passion here also with, you know, Padron family or Carlito Fuente, really.
Alain Crevet:You, you you bring a lot of beautiful products to the market,
Grinder:and I noticed your new watch, is that a new offering from ST DuPont?
Alain Crevet:No. I mean, actually, I mean, you know, we we are I mean, you may know that, in fact, our factory, I mean, we have, everything we produce, mostly, in the same place, a little village, which was a village of Mr. DuPont, like, you know, 160 years ago or more. It's called Favre, and it's, literally, like, 20 minutes away from the Swiss border. And our guys, you know, in the factory, when they assemble, you know, a complicaton lighter, it's, over 80 or some 80 spare parts.
Alain Crevet:Even for the complicaton lighter, 200 spare parts. It's really like horology, I mean, watchmaking type of craftsmanship. So we always had the idea saying, hey. It would be cool. Why not trying to, you know, work out a watch?
Alain Crevet:So we need some prototypes. Yeah. So we only have, you know, my team and myself, we are wearing some of the prototypes, some automatic, some, quartz, just as a tie all thing. I don't know whether we'll do it at all. We used to have, back in the days, in the seventies, mister DuPont, it was still the DuPont family, did 1 or 2 watches, which worked quite well.
Alain Crevet:And we keep have collectors calling us, saying, Why don't you guys make a watch? But it's complicated, and it's really very Swiss.
Rooster:Yeah.
Alain Crevet:So that's why we say, being French, we are modest. We say, okay. Let's try our way. And then maybe, if it works, in a couple of years, we'll have a watch out. But it's only a project for now.
Senator:Well, if you're sitting with your target consumers, that
Alain Crevet:that's Yeah. I can I can see?
Rooster:I mean, well, I look
Senator:for more on
Bam Bam:that side of the table.
Senator:It was appreciation for those handmade products, that craftsmanship that is true for cigars, for luxury accessories products. So it's amazing to hear you guys are looking into that.
Alain Crevet:Absolutely. Yeah. I I I think it would be I mean, you're right. It would be a logical extension for us. But, I mean, at the same time, I want to go slow.
Alain Crevet:I mean, we've been rebuilding the brand, which was suffering, like, 20 years ago, and now it's doing well, thanks to all of the things we are doing in particularly lighters and smoking accessories and also on pants.
Senator:Right. We
Alain Crevet:also do a bit of leather goods because we try to develop, you know as you may know, originally, mister DuPont, when he started his business, was a a travel case and trunk and leather goods maker, but he was doing it with always bespoke accessories coming inside. So that's why, you know, they became so famous after 2nd World War with the lighters and then with the pants. But we wanted to bring back some of this leather craftsmanship. So we have some of these really nice, you know, clutch bags for cigars, some, you know, briefcases, stuff like that. So right now, that's where we are investing to keep the of course, firstly, in lighters and smoking accessories and and and pants, and then in the leather goods.
Alain Crevet:And that's why watch would be the logical next step, and we are trying, but we always take our time. You know? We believe that we we rather do it really well, take the time, small quantities. I mean, that's always been our philosophy. Yeah.
Bam Bam:That's extraordinary.
Grinder:I I would I would characterize your your portfolio as, like, timeless timeless piece of luxury goods, but I I'm always curious. It depends on the category, how long it takes to from ideation to the hands of the consumer, like the some of these some of these beautiful, lighters. How long does it take to get some of this to the market?
Alain Crevet:I mean, typically, when we develop a new project, it's about 1 year, you know, from the idea and the design to the final production. Because, again, as you rightly say, it's a very maybe, actually, we should organize one day if you guys ever have a chance to come to Europe or to France. You know, we would be very gladly organizing a little trip to our, quote, unquote, factory, which is more like a workshop, really. Yeah.
Poobah:That's true.
Alain Crevet:Incredible. And and it's all handmade. So you have, you know, the people doing the lacquering by hand or the guilloche, which is, like, you know, this famous, you know, decor on the metal. We work only, like, you know, with precious metals, so, like, you know, white gold, palladium, yellow gold, etcetera. So this typically, I mean, takes already.
Alain Crevet:For just one lighter, a regular lighter, catalog lighter, takes about, you know, 60 to 80 hour Wow. Of work, which means that, you know and and it's not all, it's it's not all sequential, so it can take, you know, 1, 2 weeks to really get one lighter out. So that's why I'm saying, like, you know, when we develop something new and it goes through all the workshops, you know, the, we even start from the metal itself. So we, you know, cut the bar of metal. We build, you know, the gap and the thing, even the trigger.
Alain Crevet:Then we polish it. Then we have the whole, you know, lacquering and the precious metal process, and then we have the assembly. So that's why when we have a new design, typically, it takes 2, 3, 4 months to do the prototype, etcetera, and then it takes probably 6 months to do the manual production. And then we have the quality control, making sure, like, you know, you always have this, perfect, the famous sound of the DuPont. I can't resist.
Alain Crevet:We love that sound.
Poobah:We love to hear
Alain Crevet:it. Oh, gosh. So we we have a lady actually checking every lighter to really make sure that we know we it's, and the thing is, you know, that people don't know this. Yeah. But sometimes some have a less good sound.
Alain Crevet:Well, if you put lacquer on it, of course, it makes the sound a bit more matte. Uh-huh. So when it's all like, this one is a pure white gold. So that's why it's a very crystalline sound.
Senator:Sure. That's absolutely correct.
Alain Crevet:Are a little bit, you know, more matte. You know? The sound is not is less strong. But to your question, so that's why, you know, about 1 year when we tried to produce a new Game of Thrones or even Padron, Padron was a little bit quicker because they the good thing is that they they know exactly what they want. So it's in Game of Thrones, they tell us, here are the assets, work around it.
Alain Crevet:So then we work with the assets, and we tried. Of course, we replicated the throne and stuff like that, which were obvious, but other things are more detailed, which we create. Padron, I mean, they they know the house color, assets, the little hammer, the Cuban island. So it's relatively quick and easy. Yeah.
Alain Crevet:It would probably, like, 10 months for Padron and, over 1 year for for Game of Thrones.
Senator:Grindr mentioned how timeless in many ways a brand like SD DuPont is. But when you think about timeless brands like SD DuPont, Rolex, some of these, they're still always innovating and looking for where the consumer is heading. So I'm curious. Over the last 17 years, you've been with SD DuPont. What are some of the biggest shifts or trends you've seen, and what consumers are looking for or expect from SD DuPont that you you all have had to adapt and and really try to be responsive to?
Alain Crevet:Well, you know, I I think, you know, you you you put brands like Rolex or and we are indeed, I mean, in the much smaller, but in the same camp in terms of, you know, as we said, craftsmanship and timelessness. But here, what what is interesting is the young generation. I mean, you guys mostly are from the young generation. They want Some of us.
Bam Bam:Some of us are more refined out
Rooster:of the years.
Bam Bam:There's some patina. Correct. But the good thing
Alain Crevet:is, like, you know, I mean, you guys, you know, you you like also brands with history. So that's where, you know, we we need to keep the timelessness in the craftsmanship. But then, in terms of functionality, you want to also have some new and interesting features. So that's why, for example, I mean, when we created this new Le Grand DuPont, we just, you know, observing the people in the cigar world, we were saying, yeah, soft flame is nice, but, you know, if you lead it outside or if you want to lead it quickly, TorchFlame is better. So we we had SoftFlame on the line 2.
Alain Crevet:We had TorchFlame, on the on the Jet line, but we said, okay. Why don't we create you know, it took us, like, almost 2 years to have a patent on this one, which allows you to do both the soft flame and the torch flame. Same in the jets. We had mostly ladies who were saying, Yeah, your lighters are beautiful, but it's very big. If I have to put it in my purse, I would need something which is a bit more slick and slim.
Alain Crevet:So, we created what we call the Slim 7 or now the Slimmi, which is a super it always keeps the DuPont style, but then, you know, the functionality is is is cooler, is more modern. So we always try to mix a bit of both to try to, you know, to cater to younger audience and and bring in some, I wouldn't say technology, but at least, like, you know, better technical functionalities.
Bam Bam:Honestly, the Slim is my favorite model.
Alain Crevet:It's nice. It
Bam Bam:it really is. It's efficient. It doesn't take up much space. It's fantastic.
Alain Crevet:Oh, we have a new one, which we call Twiggy also, which is,
Rooster:you know,
Alain Crevet:a lot yeah. It's very cool because, also, you know, ladies wear things. Yeah.
Bam Bam:It's very small. Yeah?
Alain Crevet:Yeah. It's small, but not but it's a bit, you know, more it's smaller. It's a little bit taller. So, you know, again, we try to and and that's why we we love to go to these fairs, and we love to go to the, lounges because we see the real people. I mean, I spend a lot of time myself with Fred and my team, and we go around the world, and we'll go to Asia.
Alain Crevet:We go here. We go to Latin America, Europe, of course, and we learn. I mean, we try to listen a lot to, you know, because, in the end, it's all about customer service. So if you really understand the need of your customer, you know, that's I learned that in my very old days. I started my career, I told you, at P&G, Procter and Gamble, And I was selling laundry detergent and diapers, and we were doing lots of research, and we keep doing that today in a smaller scale, just by going and and listening to our customers.
Senator:No. This is excellent,
Gizmo:Duh, that, you know,
Pagoda:you always listen to the consumer, and it's a testament to your brand that you've kept evolving.
Gizmo:Alright. We'll go back to the second part of our conversation with ST DuPont CEO, Alain Cravet in a few minutes. But, boys, what are you thinking about the cigar?
Bam Bam:Still very lovely.
Gizmo:I think it's really, really picking up nicely over here. That's beautiful. Yeah. I'm very happy with
Rooster:it. Oh, yeah.
Senator:I think the flavor is still great. The the funny thing for me, the construction on this cigar, I don't think I've ever hit a cigar so hard trying to ash, and the ash will not fall off the cigar.
Gizmo:I was doing the same thing. I have about an inch of ash. I was tapping it over the ashtray. I can't get the ash to fall off.
Bam Bam:I think
Gizmo:Very good.
Bam Bam:The stars have aligned tonight for us. They have.
Alain Crevet:Can we
Rooster:can we buy the rest of the 50 cab? He's
Senator:Rooster, I'm curious at what your thoughts are.
Gizmo:So I was getting
Rooster:a note, like, kinda in the middle. That I'm not getting that anymore. It was just for, like, a
Bam Bam:a note.
Gizmo:What does that mean?
Bam Bam:A note in the middle?
Rooster:You know, it it was like a harshness, which I was
Senator:getting Was it a d flat
Bam Bam:or a d minor?
Poobah:It was a harsh, harsh note. A sad note. Maybe,
Rooster:people mentioned, like, ammonia.
Gizmo:I don't to me, it
Rooster:wasn't like ammonia. It was a little bit of a little bit like like a harsh note that I was getting, but it's I'm not really getting that anymore.
Senator:I I just think there's, like, some inconsistencies that, like
Bam Bam:Are you purging at all, guys?
Senator:I've been trying. Yeah.
Alain Crevet:I have. A couple times.
Rooster:I have a
Alain Crevet:few times.
Gizmo:I don't think I'm doing it as much as you are, but I I have been doing it. And it's helping a little bit, but I think the cigars for me, I'm I'm smoking it easy. I'm not pushing too hard. I agree. I'm not fighting it.
Bam Bam:It's very elegant the way it's smoking right now.
Rooster:I'm getting less cocoa now, though. That has changed
Alain Crevet:a little bit. I'm
Bam Bam:still it's still there for me. Yeah. Less vanilla, but the cocoa's there.
Senator:I think with a with a big cigar like this, there's just more Nuance. No. There's more, frankly, there's more opportunities for it to disappoint you as well. Like, there's more variables that could
Gizmo:go wrong.
Senator:Makes sense. Right? Mhmm. Is that maybe that's
Bam Bam:It makes sense.
Alain Crevet:I think
Gizmo:you're a 100% right.
Poobah:No. I mean
Gizmo:I mean, think about all the the think about all the Lucy's that we've had, all the different large ring gauge, large format cigars that, you know, there are times when they really can disappoint you, you know, especially in the Cuban line. Yeah. So I think, you know, when you get a good robusto, if you only have 50 minutes or an hour for it to really screw up, it's not as much time when it's double that. You know? There's a and there's a lot of tobacco in this thing.
Senator:Yeah. When you think about just the leaves to make a cigar this size. Right? Like, this is some of the hardest stuff to pull off. The this is long filler tobacco.
Senator:That leaf has to be long enough for the entire cigar. There's so few of those in comparison to, you know, leaves to make a much more reasonable sized cigar like a robusto. So I have to imagine that, you know, there's they can't be as picky as they would probably like to with a cigar of this size because there there's only so much they have to work with.
Poobah:It takes care of the put in
Rooster:some wrapper leaf in there.
Poobah:Well, when I'm saying it you know? Yeah. Well, no. When I was the the the wrapper leaf is the real thing that's
Senator:the hardest.
Poobah:And this is the hardest to source. Right. So it's really hard to find the wrapper leaf for cigars as big. You know what it is? It's like if the cigar was half the size and, and it you'd walk out of it, it's a commitment.
Poobah:Like you gotta like this for a long time. Maybe that plays into the perception of it. You gotta like it for a while. If you, if you cut it in half, not that that's a good thing to do, and I'm not recommending that. Of course.
Poobah:But it would be like a much maybe different experience, potentially. Yeah. You gotta like it for a while.
Bam Bam:You know, if it continues part of it. If it continues like this, it's it's a memorable experience for me. If this were half the size, it wouldn't be memorable, won't because it'd be very short, and it's such a I'm not gonna say it's mild, but mild, medium, and it dissipates quickly your memory or
Rooster:something like that.
Rooster:It's a special cigar for a special occasion, maybe. You know, it's not an everyday cigar. You're not smoking a double corona every day.
Rooster:Well
Bam Bam:yeah. So But this is so inconsistent. I probably wouldn't have this on a special occasion for me. Like, the Thanksgiving or Christmas or New Year's, I probably wouldn't do that because I don't know what I'm getting.
Gizmo:Yeah. The question marks above the cigar certainly lead me to stay away from them, which I have, like I said, prior to this podcast for years, I haven't Yeah. Smoked the oil double corona. So it's just I I agree. I I don't think that, you know, on a birthday or a holiday or Christmas or something, I'm gonna be No.
Gizmo:Reaching for this cigar.
Bam Bam:But if it can guarantee this tonight, I'm in.
Gizmo:Yeah. I wish it could.
Poobah:Yeah. At the price point, I mean, there's there's a lot of cigars out there that are, like, in a robusto size even that just delivers such a satisfying experience that at the end, maybe that leaves you wanting more. And then this is a movie that's just maybe, maybe too long. You know what I mean? With no intermission and you're just kinda like going along, but at the same time, this is that notwithstanding, this is really, really good.
Poobah:It's better than any of the other ones that I've had prior. Yeah. I'll say that.
Senator:Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. It's a good thing.
Senator:Well, you might not remember the first. The first was pretty good.
Bam Bam:Oh, we were gushing that night.
Poobah:That was yeah.
Bam Bam:You almost took your clothes off and jumped in a pool.
Rooster:It was so good.
Poobah:Well, I did after you.
Alain Crevet:Yeah. I'm sure you did.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's go to the second part of our conversation with SD DuPont CEO, Alain Cravay, live from PCA, and we'll come back in about 15 minutes.
Pagoda:A question for you is, in terms of the overall, like, from our perspective, you know, we think of SE DuPont as very synonymous with the cigar industry. From your perspective, obviously, you're overseeing a lot of different products. How much of the cigar industry is somewhat of a, component of your overall business?
Alain Crevet:It's a good question. You know? Actually, I I decided, you know because when I joined DuPont 17 years ago, some people were saying, yeah. You know, you know, smoking is going down around the world, and, frankly, like, you know, maybe and it's not good, and, maybe you guys should focus more on lesser goods or on new categories or whatever. And I said, no.
Alain Crevet:I mean, frankly, I think, you know, first of all, there are still, whether we like it or not, 11 to 1,200,000,000 smokers on the face of Earth, you know?
Rooster:Yeah.
Alain Crevet:So it's still quite sizable. I mean, we just to give you an idea, we manufacture about 40,000 lighters, you know, traditional line 2, etcetera, and maybe 100,000 jets, okay, per year. And we are you know, it's it's it's nothing, I mean, frankly, compared to 1,200,000,000. But then, you know, specifically to your question, I started to, you know, realize that, in fact, people that love cigars, they are people that are connoisseurs. They like good things in life, good spirits, etcetera.
Alain Crevet:And when they beat up their cigar with friends or whatever, having a big lighter is a bit of a shame, frankly. So if you have a real
Rooster:cold object I am so happy
Bam Bam:that he's saying that. Yeah. Honestly. Because we have this conversation at our private club over and over. And for me, and I think everyone here, it elevates this smoking experience when you have the proper tools.
Bam Bam:Invest the money. It'll last you a lifetime, honestly.
Alain Crevet:Exactly. And, you know, and and that's what I love about you know, those products because it can go for almost from generation to generation. I mean, like, you know, it's built to last, and it can be, like, you know, just like a good watch or whatever, you know, it can last. I still have my light, my father's lighter. It's 70 years old.
Bam Bam:Yeah. See, that's that's
Senator:very nostalgic combination. Yeah.
Alain Crevet:So, specifically, I mean, today, out of our total, revenue, which is about 60,000,000, you know, euro or USD, so small. And we we like it small. You know? So it's pretty good for us. Over half of the business, close to 60%, actually, is still lighter and smoking accessories.
Rooster:So it's
Alain Crevet:doing very well, and and everything is growing, but particularly lighter smoking accessories. And in there, over half of that is just linked with a cigar. So that that's that's very sizable. Yes. That's developing.
Gizmo:Wow. So you mentioned, women smokers, and I think it it was kind of enlightening for me at at PCA how many women we see walking around with cigars and enjoying the show and and talking to retailers. And a lot of women, owned retail stores that are here, you know, purchasing at at PCA. So how does, how do women smokers factor into the vision of the future with SD DuPont?
Alain Crevet:Yeah. Here, we also try to, you know, to invite, you know, some ladies. And and and, actually, it's, Twiggy. And some of the slim came directly from ideas of ladies who were saying, hey. You guys, you know, your your products are cool, but sometimes it's really bulky.
Alain Crevet:And, at the same time, I was always because I remember, you know, you talked about Rolex. And, you know, Rolex are quite clever because, in fact, your Rolex is a Rolex. They just make a smaller version for ladies, but they don't compromise on the style of the watch. So we said, hey, let's not compromise on the style and the look of a DuPont, but then we can make it, you know, slimmer, smaller. Of course, I like, you know, sometimes we had to we did a no.
Alain Crevet:I wouldn't say a mistake, but then, you know, we tried to, we did a small collection, which were more with with fun color, like pink or whatever. And he was, yeah. It's fun. I mean, we bought a few pink lighters, the ladies, but he was saying, but, you know, we are not Barbie. Okay?
Alain Crevet:I mean, frankly, if you guys have more, like, you know, a nice gold or with diamonds, yeah. Now we are talking.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. No. No. That's fair. That's quite a gift answer.
Pagoda:They like the bling. They do.
Alain Crevet:So that that's why we've been kind of reengineering a bit, you know, some of our things and and come with more, like, you know, gold finish or something which are sophisticated or very nice lacquer color. For example, I mean, I always carry it with me, but this one is quite a hit with ladies. We have this we we call it under lacquer guilloche. So So it means that, you know, you have this very nice metal work, and then you fill with a colored lacquer. So here, this one is emerald green, but we have also some other, like, you know, beautiful, you know, blue, sapphire blue, or and this is also and it also comes on the lighters.
Alain Crevet:Ladies love that.
Bam Bam:That is gorgeous.
Alain Crevet:Because that, you know, that also bring, you know, some color because we tend that, in the past, we have everything black or black and gold. That's nice, but it's a bit formal. So if you guys can add a bit of nice color so, again, we did because we try to listen to what people want.
Bam Bam:I think missus Bam Bam would love that panel. I,
Grinder:I wanted to ask a question, more more on the personal side. So these these are treasures. These these products you bring to the market, they're treasures, and there's a certain element of gifting them from generation to generation that you alluded to. And there's also what we saw yesterday with Padron gifting a very personalized product to an individual, and that seems to be part of the ethos of the brand and of the community. Right?
Grinder:What were some of your most memorable gifts given to some figures in in the business or otherwise in in the public arena as part of your relationship with s 2 DuPont and the brand itself?
Alain Crevet:You mean you mean gifting to Yeah.
Senator:So I I public figure.
Grinder:Yeah. Gifting to public figures or, you know, and, as I've heard, gifting the s two DuPont lighter to queen Elizabeth or Barack Obama or similar scenarios.
Alain Crevet:Yeah. I mean, we we we have quite a lot of that. I mean, you're you're right. I mean, in fact, you know, first of all, DuPont is indeed a gift brand. I mean, there's a lot of things we can see in the stores.
Alain Crevet:I mean, people come and they are we have actually quite a few, even though our end customers are, I would say, probably 70, 75 percent male. But, in fact, the people that walk in our stores are 5050, men and women. And a lot of ladies are actually looking because they say, hey. It's so hard to find a good gift for, you know, husband, boyfriend, father, etcetera. So, you know, in DuPont, at least, we can find, you know, a choice of of of good gift.
Alain Crevet:So that's why, you know, we are also trying to promoting this gifting thing. And, you know, talking about the history, I mean, we had lot of, you know, famous client. For example, Jackie Kennedy, you know, had a beautiful, a DuPont lighter, and and and she talked to the DuPont family saying, like, we would like to have also a matching pen. And the first DuPont pen was developed as follow-up of the request of Jackie Kennedy. We had this beautiful, you know, lacquer pen, which was she wanted to gift it, actually, to, to her husband.
Alain Crevet:So a lot of that and and you were talking about queen of England. It was the same. In fact, we are, suppliers of the French Republic, of the French presidency. So, when they make official gifts, and it was in 1950 or whatever for the wedding of queen Elizabeth. The official gift of the French republic was a special DuPont case with various, you know, instruments.
Alain Crevet:I mean, there was some knitter, some pants, etcetera, gifted to the queen on behalf of the French president. So that's that's very you know, it's a classical thing which we do a lot, and we are quite proud and happy to be, of course, you know, one of the brands. In fact, there's also Hermes for the leather, and then us for all of the metal, you know, accessories. So, yeah, gifting is very important
Bam Bam:to us. Wow.
Poobah:I have a question on
Bam Bam:a from the point of view of marketing. It's an absolute treat to have an opportunity to actually see you and sit here with you. How many trade shows like this are you doing on an annual basis?
Alain Crevet:I'm trying to limit. I mean, my my team do a lot. I mean, we probably go to over 12 trade shows, you know, in
Bam Bam:New York. Okay.
Alain Crevet:But me, I go typically, I I come to PCA. I go to Intertaba in Germany.
Bam Bam:Okay.
Alain Crevet:And then I go, you know, often now to the, Cuban. I mean, like, you know, Ferrier del Avano for a for a week. We had the DuPont boost. So I'm I'm doing that. But then I'm also you know, I'm I'm spending probably almost half of my time traveling.
Alain Crevet:We go often to Asia, and we have pretty big markets also. I mean, like, you know, that's a good thing, actually, that cigar smoking is really, gaining even more traction. I mean, I was in in Japan not long ago, and there was a a nice lounge at the hotel, you know, Grand Hyatt. There's a Maduro lounge. It was full every night of young people.
Alain Crevet:I mean, like and and, you know, both ladies and gentlemen. Sure. And I heard that in China, I'm gonna go probably. I did not go since COVID, but we're also developing business there. And there are more and more lounges in Shanghai and in Beijing with also very young crowd going there.
Alain Crevet:So that's also, I mean, trade shows, I would say myself, I do like 4 or 5, but then I spend probably every month I'm Interesting. Visiting one market. A second part to
Bam Bam:that, you mentioned China. What is your fastest emerging market right now?
Alain Crevet:I think it would be China. Yeah.
Bam Bam:With the China?
Alain Crevet:Definitely. Yeah. But, I mean, it's not to know yet. For the time being, our biggest markets are still in France, number 1, Japan, and Korea, interestingly. Yeah.
Alain Crevet:South Korea is very big. Not so much in cigars. It's still a market which is underdeveloped. But we sell a lot of, you know, regular lighters and also pens. They are big writing market and leather goods.
Alain Crevet:Okay? But China is catching up and catching up mostly on, you know, Cigar and stuff. And what about the US? Is number 5.
Pagoda:Number 5. It's number 5. Alright.
Bam Bam:Yeah. We'll help you with that.
Alain Crevet:Nobody US is going very fast also. I mean, I think, you know, I'm I'm hoping US is number 1 luxury market in the world. So and and China is kind of competing, so I hope, you know, we, in fact, we used to work with Davidoff in the past.
Rooster:Interesting. Which then,
Alain Crevet:you know, as they were distributing DuPont, and then decided for, you know, their own reasons to focus more on cigars and not on accessories. So we found a new distributor, you know, Coles of London, like, 3, 4 years ago. They do a very good job, but we restarted from scratch, basically. But we are quite pleased with the progress we are making, and I'm hoping that one day, US should be at the same level. I mean, I should sell more here than in France, frankly.
Alain Crevet:Correct. Correct.
Gizmo:So you we know that you love cigars, and we read that you also love cognac. And I guess that love started with your grandfather many years ago. Correct? So what what did your grandfather share with you over a cigar or teach you through cigars or your time with cigars and him that, that you can share with us? What kind of memories do you have of that?
Alain Crevet:Yeah. I mean, it was really, like, you know, this very nice family memories. Like, you know, on Sunday, you know, you get together as family. And in those days, I mean, I think, I don't know if it changed, but I mean, hey, we are a whole team of gentlemen here. And it was also the tradition.
Alain Crevet:Like, you know, my granddad and my dad and my uncle and me, we would get, you know, the guys would go in the special smoking room with very nice, you know, armchairs, and then we would pick up, you know, really nice, you know, cognac or rum or whatever, you know, spirit. I mean, in the day, we would have, first of all, good wine. I mean, I was born in Paris, but my family was from the center of France, you know, Burgundy area. So I was raised in, you know, Burgundy is a wine, Bordeaux is a piece of shit. Bordeaux is all about marketing, but the real wine is Burgundy.
Alain Crevet:Beer. Oh, boy. So I was not allowed to drink any Bordeaux. Oh, my goodness. I like Bordeaux now today, but I'm in 5 beer.
Alain Crevet:That's funny.
Bam Bam:That's amazing.
Alain Crevet:And, and then we would just, you know, go and talk whatever, politics. Or while the ladies would be doing something else, you know, the guys would get together and talk, you know, politics, sports, whatever.
Bam Bam:A proper lizard.
Alain Crevet:So that that was very good memories. And I keep doing that with, you know, some of my friends. And I have 2 boys, and and a daughter. And my daughter smokes a little bit. And and my second I mean, my boy in the middle also enjoys a good cigar from time to time.
Alain Crevet:So we keep with the family tradition
Bam Bam:and some,
Alain Crevet:you know, good cigars and good spirits.
Rooster:Excellent.
Bam Bam:What is your cigar of choice?
Alain Crevet:That's a tough one because, you know, to be frank, in the beginning, you know, I was, strong cigars were too hard for me. Mhmm. So, when I discovered Davidoff, I like it because it's a very, like, you know, relatively mild
Bam Bam:Creamy and elegant.
Alain Crevet:Smoke. Exactly. Elegance. You know? But then I started to discover more, you know, the Cubans.
Alain Crevet:And, frankly, like, you know, I have to say, you know, the good Cohiba or Oh, boy.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Alain Crevet:But but, no, I I really mix. I mean, depending on the occasion. I mean, yesterday, we were with, Jorge Padron, you know, the 60th anniversary cigar. Wow. I mean, you know, it it was a cool one.
Alain Crevet:Sometimes, you know, I'm a good friend also with, Zaya from El Septimo. So
Rooster:Uh-huh.
Alain Crevet:He supplies us regularly. I I like also it's probably because I was very influenced, you know, in, in my young days, there were some good westerns on TV, you know, I'm I'm 60 years old, so, you know, I'm a veteran. And Clint Eastwood was always having these amazing long cigars.
Bam Bam:That's exactly right.
Alain Crevet:So I always wanted to eat Lancero's. Yes.
Rooster:We're taking a look.
Poobah:We are we are a
Gizmo:full on Lancero podcast. Absolutely.
Rooster:Yeah.
Gizmo:And we love Lancero's.
Alain Crevet:So we love lanceros. So every time I go to, you know, El Lagito, they give me a few short supply of lanceros. I take some lanceros from, from Carlito. I take some lanceros from Zaya.
Bam Bam:That's right. You should try the Millennium Lancero from Davidoff. Give it a try.
Alain Crevet:Yeah? Okay. I will. I I did not, but I'm sure, yeah, since I love Davidoff. What's the try?
Alain Crevet:So
Gizmo:yeah. I gotta tell you, this was great. A real treat having you on today. No.
Alain Crevet:A real treat to be with you guys, frankly. So thank thank you very much. You know? Good question. Cool.
Alain Crevet:You know? I mean, hey. You guys, we we love the same thing, so we could only Yeah.
Rooster:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Gizmo:Absolutely. So, yes, thank you so much for the hospitality and and your time today. It was really great, and, and we'll see you next time.
Grinder:Thank you
Alain Crevet:so much. Thank you. Great meeting being with you, and see you next time.
Gizmo:So many thanks again to SD DuPont CEO, Alain Cravet, for sitting down with us. That was a great conversation, boys.
Bam Bam:Thank you, Alain. Fantastic interview.
Gizmo:Comprehensive. Went through as more than we thought we could
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:In a half hour. He gave us more time than than certainly I thought he would, and he was very, very generous, with information and his time. So and we have some exciting stuff coming up. So I'm looking forward to,
Senator:A lizard SD DuPont collab. Don't
Gizmo:forget. Yay.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Senator:It was floated, and the idea was well received.
Gizmo:And we didn't float it, by the way.
Bam Bam:No. That's right.
Gizmo:He did. Floated.
Senator:That's right.
Rooster:I I
Gizmo:Oh, you floated it.
Senator:But he was all over it.
Gizmo:He loved it. He loved it.
Rooster:So would that be a triple flame fighter?
Bam Bam:It'll be green.
Gizmo:So, boys, what are you thinking about the cigar?
Bam Bam:It's still very good. Yeah.
Gizmo:I think it's really good.
Bam Bam:Yeah. No disappointing edges on this thing at all.
Senator:I like that the last third has actually picked up a little bit because I
Bam Bam:touch.
Senator:I was very much in in Gizmo's camp
Rooster:in that.
Senator:I've I've loved the flavors I'm getting all throughout.
Gizmo:Mhmm.
Senator:But it's been milder than I would like, and the last third is finally building to something that is more in my wheelhouse.
Bam Bam:That cocoa is still there, senator.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah. Are you gonna give it a 10?
Bam Bam:No. Well,
Senator:he did already a couple.
Poobah:But that's what maybe, you know, that's that's the journey I think you Oh my god.
Senator:Hold on. Who may who gave the Oliva v a 10? Oh. Guilty. That's exactly right.
Senator:So pipe down, Bruce.
Bam Bam:Senator may he may give that Kmiec a 10.
Poobah:Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:Well, he will.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. He will.
Rooster:He likes to hand a 10.
Alain Crevet:Oh, yeah.
Senator:I have the toughest grade am I wrong this, though? Am I not the toughest grader here?
Gizmo:You're one of the toughest.
Poobah:Should we should we tell Rooster that he's actually smoking in the church and we revandered it.
Gizmo:So, boys, we have some interesting news out of Europe. I just wanted to touch on this really quickly because I thought it was fascinating. Obviously, Habanos in the United States has been fighting for, I don't know, 10, 15, 20 years over the use of the Habanos catalog names in the non Cuban brands, Oildomonere certainly being one of them, and they've been fighting back and forth for many, many years. In Germany, however, a court ruled that non habanos or new world cigar makers will no longer be able to use the words Cuban and the word Habano, including seed, anything like that relating to their cigars Interesting. In their marketing or advertising or product listing of the cigars that they're gonna be releasing in Germany.
Gizmo:You can't just change your marketing for one segment of Europe. Right? I mean, you'd have to do it worldwide. Yeah. You'd have to do it for at least all of Europe, I would think.
Poobah:Who made the argument in the lawsuit?
Gizmo:Habano sued. Habano sued in in German court. I think General Cigars and some of the others, and the federal court of justice confirmed in a final judgment that appellations such as Cuba and Habana are inadmissible for cigars of other origins.
Senator:And if you can win a lawsuit like that in Germany, you'll definitely win in the United States.
Gizmo:True. So things like Habano seed, Pilato Cubano, Habano wrapper, Ecuadorian Habano wrapper, Ecuadorian Habano wrapper, Ecuadorian Habano seed wrapper, Cuba, the noble fire of cub of Cuba, criollo, or binder Habano Jalapa, Nicaragua.
Bam Bam:Wow.
Gizmo:Those kind of things are gonna be inadmissible because they include words that have now been deemed illegal
Poobah:in German. You know what I wonder? I wonder in Europe if that would if that could hold up because they're doing trade there.
Senator:Yeah. This
Poobah:this is a protocol. In the US But it did hold up. Right. No. Right.
Poobah:But in in in the in the United States, we can tell Cuba to go pound sand anytime we want over any issue whatsoever because we don't do any kind of commerce with them. And, that's the end of that.
Gizmo:In the United States, they've won quite a few cases saying that it's been back and forth. It's kind of been like a like a volleyball that sometimes Habanos wins in United States courts that
Rooster:that can't be marked.
Poobah:Market their stuff here and
Gizmo:But they've still the courts have still ruled in their favor. So That's unusual.
Senator:It's not nice when intellectual property is stolen. Who owns a lot of Habanos SA at this point?
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. Oh, interesting.
Poobah:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:Good point there, senator.
Poobah:That's correct. We know who they are. Yeah.
Gizmo:So boys, let's talk about some listener emails that came in. We've got a we've had a number of them over the last few weeks. I'll touch on a
Rooster:few. I don't even
Gizmo:know where to start. Alright. Let's start with this one. This is from lizard seagull, great listener. Always writes us, tells us every episode what he thinks of the of the episode and any questions and whatnot.
Gizmo:He said, Giz and the lizards, another great episode. I love the banter. He's talking about episode 129, the Cohiba Siglaf episode 2 weeks ago. A few comments towards the beginning of the podcast. Some of the guys' voices were hard to hear.
Gizmo:It could be my old ears, but it seems like the mic level needs to be different for different lizards as some have a softer voice, or is something else going on? I can always hear you, Giz. No problem. As long as well as Grindr, senator, and BamBam. It's more so Poohbah and Rooster who are a little harder, who might speak a little softer.
Poobah:Is this a plant?
Gizmo:No. Are you planting this straight or dark?
Poobah:I am here.
Gizmo:Me too. Are the levels the same for all the guys or higher for others? Well, I'll answer that question. We're a 131 episodes in, and some of the guys in the room here, some of our lizards speak into the mic. Correct.
Gizmo:And then some of the lizards to my left here, these 2 gentlemen sometimes choose not to speak into the mic. Couldn't be any closer than the mic. The mic
Rooster:would be in my mouth.
Bam Bam:I don't wanna see that.
Poobah:My apologies, but I will speak it's it's not a a production problem. It's an execution problem, and we'll get better.
Gizmo:We're putting these 2 things on. Yep.
Poobah:We're on we're on a performance improvement plan. Are
Alain Crevet:you in?
Bam Bam:Duly noted.
Senator:I like this.
Gizmo:So we're gonna be checking in on you guys and your mic technique over the next few episodes to make sure that you are giving lizard seagull what he wants, which
Rooster:is to hear you. Absolutely.
Poobah:Understood and duly noted. He
Gizmo:also says, and this
Rooster:is more more important
Gizmo:in the episode here. He said, I wanna thank you guys for the recommendations. I think I have my porch finally dialed in. I added a fan to the window that draws out smoke from the porch as I enjoy a cigar. I also have a portable AC unit, he's in Florida, to help cool on upcoming hot days.
Gizmo:I have the fragrance that helps as well. I'm Tashree's talking about the Lanperger. He says that the wife says with the fan on, there's hardly any odor at all. So thanks very much for that. So, again, it goes to, you know, you create negative pressure.
Gizmo:You have air constantly pushing out of the room. Mhmm. So hopefully more than is what's coming in, and you're never gonna have a smoke problem.
Rooster:Wait. Did you say porch or a garage?
Gizmo:He has, like, an enclosed porch outside.
Rooster:Okay.
Gizmo:Yeah. So that was from lizard seagull. So thanks to him for writing in. We have another one here. This one I love, from tuxedo Timmy, our friend.
Gizmo:He says, can you guys ask Bam why he continues to call out dried fruit on every cold draw
Bam Bam:regardless of the cigar? Timmy. Timmy. I'm gonna get on a plane and pay you a visit.
Gizmo:So, Bam, he wants to know why every cigar you get dried fruit on the
Bam Bam:cold front. Is a note that I pursue, especially in in Cuban cigars, and I I happen to get it in almost
Rooster:every book.
Senator:So hard that you find it in every cigar.
Gizmo:Whether it's there or not.
Bam Bam:This is a plant.
Rooster:That's what
Bam Bam:this is. This is
Poobah:a plant. It manifests itself in your imagination.
Bam Bam:Hey, Timmy. I'm gonna private message you in about an hour. Yeah. I do love the dry fruit now. That's something that's that's
Rooster:Well, it
Gizmo:used to be citrus. I think he got scared off because we'd call him out on citrus.
Rooster:So
Senator:So now we gotta hammer this dried fruit home, and we're gonna beat this out of the next
Poobah:Accountability's hashtag accountability hour.
Bam Bam:Same notes and some other
Poobah:Hashtag accountability hour, citrus dry
Bam Bam:fruit accountability hour. I'm done with that.
Poobah:You'll never be done ever.
Gizmo:So this is another one. This is from, senator's friend, lizard Anthony, if you remember that one last week about, the retrohale. This is
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. We remember that.
Poobah:How can we forget?
Gizmo:This is a good one. Actually, this is a helpful one. We were talking about the Montecristo slam. We were curious. I was talking about the the new release from Habanos, why they named the Montecristo Slam.
Gizmo:It was a weird name, and he makes a lot of sense. I didn't even catch on to this, that the whole open series from Montecristo is based off tennis. So everything is the open, the slam, everything, the eagle, all of that stuff in that line is based
Poobah:off of this. It's
Rooster:just no
Poobah:golf. It's golf.
Gizmo:There's no ego
Senator:in tennis.
Poobah:There's no tennis.
Gizmo:Yeah. What about what about a slam? Open master. Not golf.
Poobah:Oh, well, maybe it's a mash up. Maybe it's a golf tennis
Senator:mash up. Gotta be mash up.
Senator:There's the That's
Poobah:what it's gotta be. Because the Open Eagle, the the they marketed it as like a a golf cigar.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, there's no eagle in tennis. There's an eagle in golf.
Poobah:It has
Senator:to be.
Poobah:But but but but no. But maybe it's a mash up, what they're doing right now with the Slam. It's sports cigar.
Rooster:Sports cigar.
Poobah:It's a country club sports cigar.
Senator:The Montecristo touchdown is next. Yes.
Rooster:Home run.
Bam Bam:Not a fan.
Alain Crevet:Here's a
Gizmo:good one for you guys. So if you remember on the episode that we did where we talked about the new Habanos aging program. We talked about the sunsetting of the Anajadas program, the new 5, 10, 15, 20 year aging program, and we had a listener, Lizard Razvan, wrote in, I don't get the laughs about the Habanos protected denomination of origin. So we were laughing about they have this regulation committee that verifies
Alain Crevet:that
Gizmo:all of these cigars come out with the proper age. Have you guys never heard about this intellectual property right concept? So, obviously, to be specific, we, know, we weren't talking about the Habanos denomination of origin markings, which on the box top right of the box is the Habanos seal, white and orange, which is the, you know, proving that it's a a legitimate Mhmm. Habanos product. Nor we didn't we didn't even mention that.
Gizmo:But we do find that the new aging concept regulated by the regulatory council of the Habanos protected appellations of origin. That's pretty comical to me. I mean Agreed. I think it's kinda crazy because there's really no logical way that Tabakuba magically held 10 to 15 year age No. Tobacco somewhere No.
Gizmo:No. In massive quantity to make 5 or 10000, 10 year age fundidoris, 10 years ago? Like, they've been planning this for 10 years?
Bam Bam:It's just not possible.
Gizmo:You know, it's completely illogical. It's completely illogical.
Senator:So the this lizard believes it.
Gizmo:He believes it. Yeah.
Poobah:Yeah. Yeah.
Senator:Has he been to Cuba before?
Gizmo:I'm not sure about that. Where is he where is he out of? I don't know the answer to that. I don't know the answer to that. Okay.
Gizmo:So what he says is I don't know the tobacco stock situation in Cuba as probably no one outside of Tabakaba does, but at least the mention of aging is backed up by the regulatory council. When I buy a Macallan 12, the fact the whiskey has been matured for at least 12 years in an oak cask
Rooster:Well, it's
Bam Bam:a good thing Macallan is not a Cuban product. Correct.
Gizmo:It does not guarantee me Macallan, but the Scottish the Scotch Whiskey Association does. The same goes for vintage champagne.
Bam Bam:Different region.
Senator:He's from Europe, I guess.
Gizmo:Yeah. I would think
Rooster:so. Yeah. Okay.
Gizmo:I he's he put some stuff in here. I can't even pronounce
Senator:He sounds like a bureaucrat.
Gizmo:Cognac cam camer bay camerburr.
Senator:Camembert. Camembert.
Gizmo:Cheers. Camember. This
Senator:is great.
Senator:Keep going,
Poobah:guys. Keep going, guys, man. I can't it's called Camember.
Gizmo:So what he's saying here is that this protected designation of origin guarantees the origin of the product, the ingredients, a production method, and a method of maturing and aging the product. In the world of cigars, only habanos has a protected designation of origin. For the rest of the cigar producing countries, you have to take the manufacturer's word for it when they tell you that the cigar has been aged for x number of years or that it contains x, y, and z tobaccos. So he's kind of flipping the script and saying that the Habanos, because they have a regulatory council, you know, saying that all this is legit. That's right.
Poobah:Cuba, Cuba Scotland, they're
Gizmo:all the same.
Poobah:Yeah. Cuba regulatory council, I'm sure it's
Rooster:It's oxymoron.
Poobah:I'm sure
Senator:Drink the water. Drink the tap water in Cuba, and, and tell me what regulatory body is. Make sure it's that safe. I mean, Jesus Christ.
Bam Bam:You're comparing you're you're comparing a Macallan product to a product made
Poobah:No. Or just any regulatory body in a democratic country compared to Cuba. Right.
Senator:Of a regulatory body in China. Right? I mean, it's just not the same.
Gizmo:And the thing that I wanna say too is this is not a concept that we've come up with, that we dispute what's going on in Cuba in this aging program. I mean, the whole Anajados program has been questioned for years. Anytime they talk about aged tobacco, you question it. And the fact that there's been such scarcity
Rooster:Mhmm.
Gizmo:Since COVID, let's talk pre price increase where you couldn't find a Fundadores for 4 or 5 years
Alain Crevet:Yeah.
Gizmo:Anywhere. Now all of a sudden, they have all this tobacco. So that's why we kinda Yeah. Mock the idea
Rooster:that,
Senator:I would just say to this listener, everything that they're talking about in Europe, obviously, is perfectly legitimate, and that's why we trust age statements from countries that have legitimate regulatory bodies Mhmm. That actually take this stuff seriously. Cuba is a place that this listener needs to visit to probably fully appreciate and understand how different
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Senator:And how fucked up things are there. Oh, yeah. That is just the reality of the situation there.
Alain Crevet:Mhmm.
Rooster:This is
Senator:a country that is starved for resources, does not have what it needs to produce what they would like to. And as a result, historically, has done whatever they need to to convince the consumer, whether it's the Anajados program or now this new one, that this has x type of tobacco in it. It's been aged for however long. That is obviously bullshit.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's a money grab.
Rooster:It's what
Bam Bam:it is.
Poobah:And however there however there are exceptions.
Bam Bam:Sure.
Poobah:Where's there have been some that we've had that are really incredible. 1. Of course.
Senator:1. Yep. Yep. The is incredible.
Rooster:That's about it.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That's true.
Poobah:That's true.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah.
Bam Bam:That's true. Just 1. Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:And like I said, we're not the we're not the only place calling this out. I mean, this is Yeah.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:Everywhere people are questioning the validity of any age statements that have ever come out of Cuba simply because of the scarcity. I mean, there's it's just so illogical to believe that that they've thought so far ahead. And despite all of the challenges that senator just listed, that they have a 10 to 15, 20 year plan for aging tobacco there, It's just beyond any of our comprehension. I think I speak for the entire room when I say that.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Senator:And, again, you know, if this listener and any other visits Cuba and you talk to people in the industry there, there is no forward looking long term plan for these products, period. Right? It is about how they meet the current demand, how they solve for the current challenges. This whole notion that for 10 years, they've sat on aged tobacco to produce a 10 year aged Fundadores is impossible. Mhmm.
Senator:There's no one at any cigar factory in Havana that will tell you that that is happening.
Bam Bam:No one's not. Sitting on 10 year aged tobacco. They're not. I mean, that's corona.
Gizmo:They can't even meet the
Senator:demand. The current demand. Exactly. Right. They're pumping out everything.
Senator:That's why Yeah. There's a difference in how Cuban cigars are released and how new world cigars are released. If you look at most new world brands, that tobacco is aged for years time. They can do that. Mhmm.
Senator:In Cuba, they can't. It would be ideal for every single box that we get to have a minimum of, you know, x year or years of age. They they don't have that luxury.
Rooster:We're talking 90 days.
Gizmo:Yeah. As quick as they can make and roll that cigar,
Senator:they're putting it in a box and selling it.
Bam Bam:And if you remember the tours that we've done through La Corona, we've go down into the bail room. Those rooms are not full of tobacco. What comes in, they roll immediately. Yeah.
Gizmo:It it was It's day to day.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:What comes in that day You've
Bam Bam:seen it yourself. What comes in there? Not full.
Poobah:What's the criteria for the reserves in terms of age? I believe it's
Bam Bam:5 years?
Gizmo:8 or 10 years. The ground reserve is 8
Poobah:or 10 years. So I guess the point I'm trying to make right. So I guess what the point I'm trying to make is with the reserve is, in the expectation on the, at the end user level. Like if you're buying a box of reserve is that client is expecting
Gizmo:Yeah. Legitimate product.
Poobah:A legitimately a legitimate product in their pallet will call that out immediately.
Senator:Yeah. And there's also a reason that they produce Grand Reserves in such small quantities. Well, well, that's They don't have that much aged tobacco.
Poobah:Totally. Totally. I mean, they're doing it, but it's in it's in these small quantities.
Gizmo:The problem is is now this new program is, you know, ground reserve, I think, was 8 or 10 years. This new program goes all the way up to 20 years.
Bam Bam:That's insane.
Gizmo:So you're gonna see releases over the next 2 to 3 years that have apparent 20 year age tobacco in it.
Poobah:Will they come out as as as grant this grain reserves or something different?
Gizmo:They're gonna come out in this new program.
Rooster:Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:So, anyway, thanks, lizard, for writing out writing to us. I hope we answered your question as to why we laughed at it because it's just so illogical and comical that that this could ever be even reasonably plausible in Cuba. Yep. At least for the next 18 years, I would say.
Bam Bam:That email makes me want to sip on my cognac.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. We got one more listener email from lizard John. He says, hello, Giz and the guys. Just a quick note from Idaho. I just went, just finished smoking my first Partagas e 2 while listening to your review of it from episode 82.
Gizmo:Well, I'm an avid listener. I have had yet to smoke along with a reviewed cigar, and I gotta say it was so much fun. I loved hearing each lizard's opinions and tasting notes along the way, and I felt like I was right there with you all. And I just I loved that here. 2.
Poobah:That That e 2 spud is cigar. 2.
Senator:You chose an excellent cigar to
Bam Bam:do that with.
Gizmo:Absolutely. Thanks again for all your hard work on putting together by far the best cigar podcast out there. Cheers and best wishes to you all. Awesome. That's a great email.
Alain Crevet:That's awesome. Fantastic.
Gizmo:So thanks to the listeners for writing in. We certainly get more emails than we could ever read on air, but please keep sending, and, obviously, we're looking for voice memos. I loved playing that voice memo a few weeks ago from Blizzard Sean.
Bam Bam:Timmy, do not send a voice memo.
Gizmo:Timmy, send a voice mail.
Poobah:No. Timmy, please send a voice mail.
Alain Crevet:So now this is gonna be a thing.
Rooster:We we we So you
Bam Bam:know what's gonna happen. This is gonna be
Poobah:a thing now.
Rooster:We encourage you
Poobah:to send a voice memo.
Rooster:Every week.
Gizmo:Every week. Every week. Yes.
Senator:Every week. That way, Bam Bam can't misconstrue what you're saying. Just just really let him know exactly what Alright. Start clarity,
Alain Crevet:will you?
Gizmo:I think tone is important.
Senator:I agree.
Gizmo:You know? So then it'd be nice to hear it straight from
Senator:the tone. Takes it seriously. I mean, he's just dismissing these emails.
Gizmo:He thinks I write them.
Bam Bam:It's a plan.
Senator:It was a plan.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. We're coming to the end of our evening here on the Joyo de Monterrey double Coronas and the Martell blue Swift VSOP cognac. Any final thoughts before we get into the rating? I gotta say, both of them have been really, really great here in
Senator:the last year.
Bam Bam:It's a very tasty pairing tonight.
Gizmo:Yeah. I'm very, very happy with it.
Rooster:The end the end got a little harsh on the cigar.
Bam Bam:I don't know. Puba, what do you think about the end? You put yours down.
Poobah:It would well, I put it down, though, but I smoked at all.
Bam Bam:And and no complaint. Right?
Poobah:A little bit. No major. No major complaints.
Gizmo:Right.
Poobah:Was it, some sort of superlative expression of hoyo? Probably. No. Okay. Yep.
Poobah:I see I see another one just went in the ashtray.
Senator:I've done it. I've done
Gizmo:to the end.
Bam Bam:It's there's a word each way we're about done.
Poobah:You know, we'll get to the ratings. I mean, it was it was it was okay.
Bam Bam:Yep.
Poobah:I mean, it it I enjoyed it. I'd smoke it again, certainly. But we'll get
Rooster:through it. Other double coronas have, fared better.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Well,
Gizmo:we'll see how the ratings go.
Senator:I I agree with Rooster. The the last quarter for me did get a little bit harsh.
Poobah:Mhmm. Gotta hurt. And to be expected. It's not right? It's not unexpected.
Poobah:This what we've
Rooster:But overall, it I mean, it was
Alain Crevet:it was good.
Poobah:This was better
Rooster:than the Better than we expected.
Bam Bam:That's right. Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. Alright, boys. Let's do the formal liquor rating on the Martell Blue Swift VSOP cognac. Bam bam. You're up.
Bam Bam:So I like how this cognac drank. It was really smooth and elegant, did not overpower the cigar at all. It was very complimentary, and the price point's excellent. I'm giving it a 9.
Gizmo:Alright. Grinder.
Senator:I'm also giving it a 9. I love the, the the cherry was subtle, but it it was consistent.
Bam Bam:Yeah. The cherry on the nose, fantastic.
Senator:It's us. And and I and I just love the bourbon taste. You know, there was we drank a bourbon recently, and it was it kinda floored me because I enjoyed it for once. And this was, like, a nice expression of the bourbon where it wasn't as full blast, but it was it was soft and subtle. And the cognac was was kinda dry and and and the finish was short, and I it was very drinkable.
Senator:I'm you know, I think everyone hears
Bam Bam:Can I have a sip
Senator:of your I ran out? Yeah. Thank you. Nice save.
Poobah:For the record, Can we keep that?
Bam Bam:No a meeting. Okay.
Poobah:No. No. For the record, this is for the lizard for the lizard badger. Okay. Bam stole Grindr's drink
Bam Bam:and broke the glass. I requested a No.
Senator:No. The glass isn't broken.
Poobah:Oh, the glass isn't broken?
Bam Bam:I dropped my holder.
Rooster:Thank you.
Senator:Senator. I'm also at a 9. I think it's a I I think the thing that surprised me most, if you think of any spirit, whether we're talking scotch, cognac, rum, there's kind of the standard expression. Right? If we're talking scotch, you know, 12, 14 or 15, 18, and beyond that.
Senator:In cognac, the BS, the VSOP, the XO. This is one of those, you know, unique VSOPs that they've created to do something different and special. And we see so many times, aged in this other type of barrel, aged in that type of barrel. And for me, usually, the best expressions within any kind of brand are like the standard production, like, VSOP of something or the 12 year or the 15 year. This is one of the best done like, this whole we're gonna put this we're gonna be the 1st cognac ever in a bourbon barrel.
Senator:Like, honestly, I was a little worried about, like, the marketing strategy there. I thought this was just gonna be similar to the VSOP, maybe mildly different, and, you know, they can market the hell out of this and sell a bunch of bottles. It's very different from the standard VSOP Yeah. And in a great way. So I think they've hit a home run with this.
Senator:I hope this stays around forever. I I think there's tons of merit to what they've done. Yeah. It's incredibly smooth.
Bam Bam:It will make the rotation.
Senator:A VSOP cognac to drink I mean, this is as smooth as many XOs that we reviewed. True. Which are at 3 times the price point at least of that bottle, if not 4. So incredibly smooth. I think the flavor profile pairs really well with Cuban cigars and wood new world cigars.
Senator:Although, I wouldn't have this with, like, a really overpowering like, a really full new world cigar because this is so smooth and and kinda easygoing. I think this would get lost with a cigar like that. And I think there's a decent level of complexity. The only reason I didn't give this a 10, I would want more from the flavor profile. There's even more complexity to get a 10, but I would definitely buy this bottle and and drink it again.
Senator:Cognac.
Gizmo:So I gotta say, for everything you just said is the reason why I'm rating this a 10. I think this is right up there for me with Courvoisier as Nice. One of the best, you know, pick it off the shelf VSOP. Nothing crazy. Good price.
Gizmo:I thought the added complexity with the bourbon was fantastic, the the bourbon finish on it. I liked that it wasn't overpowering. Mhmm. It was wonderful to drink
Bam Bam:neat. Complimentary.
Gizmo:The price is great. Like, everything about it really works. I certainly thought it was better than the other Martell we did. I'd like to do more from Martell because of this. This is a wonderful sipping cognac for for me, probably most cigars, except for a really high power Nicaraguan, probably.
Gizmo:I would I would stray away like you said, senator.
Bam Bam:Great for the Cuban
Gizmo:catalog. And I think that that's a real merit for this at at $55 or or however much, you know, you got it for. So I'm I'm very happy, and I'm very proud to say I I I'm this is a 10 for me all day.
Rooster:Puba.
Poobah:It's a 9 for me. I I really enjoyed the how how creative Martell got with this in terms of it's the dry finish for me was nice, but it's not super dry. It's balanced. It was balanced kind of between sweet and dry, and that was that's good for a cigar. Where sometimes like an after dinner drink, I'd like a cognac and I'd prefer something like Remy where it's maybe sweeter and I'm having a dessert and it compliments that.
Poobah:Not necessarily pairing it with cigar, but pairing it with something, you know, with the dessert or something like that, or just that's the dessert, the dessert. This to me is, is drinkable. You can, you can drink multiple and smoke a cigar with it because this dry finish, this kind of bourbon esque, flavor notes in the background, to me, were compelling. I give it a 9.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. That puts the formal liquor rating on the Martell Blue Swift VSOP cognac at a 9.2. Fantastic. That's a great score.
Senator:Yeah. I want us
Senator:to do something at one point. I want us to average the scores for different categories of spirits we've done. For rums, for cognacs, for scotches, for bourbons. And I
Poobah:bet cognacs rank up their high.
Senator:That's where I'm going with this. Get on that gas.
Poobah:Get on it. That's where you were going.
Gizmo:Like more work work
Rooster:for me. Yeah. No. I just
Senator:say that like
Rooster:a lot
Alain Crevet:of work.
Senator:I just say that You
Bam Bam:need an intern.
Senator:We've talked about this. You know, there there it it almost feels like sometimes, you know, we're we're kinda running out of spirits. It's, like, hard to find stuff that we haven't done. And so a lot of the time, we're really kinda taking a shot in the dark, and I'm just shocked.
Gizmo:I mean, this is on a
Senator:you know, these are this is the kind of bottle that's on a whim. You know? This is not extremely well known. If you said to most people, have you had Martell blue swift? They'd have no clue what you're talking about.
Senator:True. The fact that even these bank shots are scoring so high, I would love to see what the average scores are for these different spirits because cognac is gotta be up there. Yeah.
Senator:Absolutely. Definitely.
Gizmo:Somebody's been watching some playoff basketball.
Senator:Correct.
Bam Bam:Bank shots.
Rooster:Bank shots.
Poobah:Well yeah. Because Great great
Senator:playoffs, I will say.
Bam Bam:You know, I am surprised he didn't give us a 10 tonight.
Gizmo:I am too. Yeah. Honestly, everything he said everything he said,
Senator:you you said, basically.
Rooster:But you gave
Poobah:him a 10. If you're the thing is there's so many there's, like, with Scotch, you know, defer to Grindr because Grindr is, you know, the Scotch subject matter expert in the room.
Bam Bam:With I think senator's offended right now.
Poobah:Well They
Rooster:said nothing. Okay.
Poobah:Senator and Grinder.
Bam Bam:No. No. You don't There you go. You too. Yeah.
Bam Bam:Now you're couching. Can we can
Poobah:we mute Bams, Mike? Jesus. Anyway, I'm trying to make a point. The point is I think, I think there there's, there's a wide range of expression of scotch where I think with with with cognac, it's a little bit tighter. It's
Senator:just It's from one region. Yeah.
Poobah:I mean, it's from
Senator:I think that's a fair statement.
Poobah:You know, it's a little bit tighter. So Yeah. So we we you know, that may influence the fact that, well, we really like cognac. And when you get into a certain price point in a certain quality level of cognac, it's going to rate that way where, you know, you're going to get more, kind of more different opinions in different, the difference between Tasker or Lagavulin and and Balvenie and Balvenie is like night and day.
Senator:Yeah. So the way to the way to control for this, then, we can even parse out scotches and and group the take the average by region in Scotland Get to work. See if how a region that we may be, you know, prefer ranks against other spirits that come from the region.
Bam Bam:Senator's giving out tens, and he's dictating work to you.
Alain Crevet:I can't believe it.
Senator:I will say new. To support to support senator's agenda here, if we if if you gave us the spreadsheet of the of the which we have readily available at Lounge Wizards pod dot com. Which is there. We can probably figure this out pretty quickly.
Rooster:Cut it easy.
Senator:It's like the
Poobah:So start cutting the grinder. Get it done
Alain Crevet:by tomorrow. Done. Grind grinder
Poobah:grinder's a spreadsheet. That's for Exactly.
Senator:Yes. Let's let's let's get to the cigar rating so Bam can give it a 10. The easiest grater
Rooster:in the room.
Gizmo:Let's go, man.
Bam Bam:That's not gonna happen. If not happening tonight, not
Poobah:happening tonight. And you love the citrus
Gizmo:and dried fruit. Dried fruit. So much dried fruit.
Bam Bam:I should have get the Konak
Rooster:No.
Gizmo:Listen. I the the point is well taken. I, you know, I think about our end of year episode that we do every year, and we talk about the variety of ratings and how things rated throughout the year. We do those composites, new world, Cuban, etcetera. I think that might be an interesting thing to add to it.
Bam Bam:It is a great idea. I think it's fun.
Senator:I think I think champagne would win. I think, cognac would be a close second. Really? Oh, absolutely.
Poobah:Absolutely. Yeah. Okay.
Gizmo:I think there's a lot of stinkers in the, in the Scotch and bourbon Yes. Thing that we've done because it's just such a wide market. Yeah. There's so many entrance in the market that with the cognac, the champagne we've done, it's a little bit of a tighter and wine too.
Senator:Yeah. Wine is up there. I think tequila would would would come in pretty hot.
Rooster:Yeah. Mhmm.
Senator:I think rum would there were some stinkers with rum, I think. You know? There were.
Gizmo:Yeah. Yeah. 1 or 2. Yeah. Alright, boys.
Gizmo:Let's move to the formal lizard rating tonight on the Joyo Double Coronas from Cuba. Rooster, you're up.
Rooster:I'm at an 8 for the cigar. It started off great. The first third was really good, and I think there was no draw issues, no construction issues, though it burned, you know, great combustion. I mean, it wasn't overly there wasn't a lot of combustion, but it was decent. So I'm at an 8, but there's a lot of other double coronas that we have done that I think we have all rated them much higher.
Poobah:Yeah. Yeah.
Bam Bam:Like that that punched up corona spray.
Rooster:Punched double corona was awesome. So I'm at a solid 8 on this. Mhmm.
Poobah:Okay. Puba, I'm at a solid 8 as well. Started off exactly how I expected it to based on previous experience. It it had dessert notes, the white chocolate, hints of vanilla, cocoa, all those things. And then I, it was very pleasant through this, you know, through the, the second, 3rd.
Poobah:But it just, and I did not get the in the last 3rd. I didn't get the youth. I didn't get the ammonia. I didn't really get the as many rough edges as I've I've I've as I've had previously. So this was a better experience for me where I would have maybe rated the same, the same cigar a couple of years ago, a 7, I give it an 8 today.
Poobah:It was enjoyable. It didn't, I didn't, there was nothing I didn't, I hated about it. It just wasn't that exciting for me, and didn't really give me the complexity that I was kind of searching for. So it's an 8 for me.
Gizmo:So I'm having a tough time with this, honestly, even up to this exact moment. I I You're a troublemaker. You know, the cigar, pretty much for everything that Pupa just said, you know, for me, it it it was it was okay. It wasn't great. It started okay.
Gizmo:You know? So I think I'm gonna go with a very low 8. I'm gonna go with an 8 on this.
Senator:What's a low 8? Yeah. There's no such thing as highs and lows here.
Gizmo:It's a soft 8.
Bam Bam:7.9. Do
Senator:we need another hour on
Rooster:this? I mean
Gizmo:It's a soft 8. I was debating between a 7
Senator:and 8. No soft
Senator:or hard numbers here.
Bam Bam:Either. Now you can
Rooster:say that.
Senator:There's a 7. There's a medium plus.
Rooster:Not yet.
Bam Bam:Plus plus. It's a
Poobah:it's a it's a it's a quantitative analysis with a small sample size. You're creating confusion.
Gizmo:I'm gonna say it's an 8. I I thought the cigar was okay. It started it started decently. It picked up throughout the last quarter. It was really, really mediocre.
Gizmo:The reason why I'm bumping to an 8 from a 7 is the construction was really good. The burn was really good.
Rooster:Correct.
Gizmo:You know? I thought that the those aspects of the cigar were okay. They were good. The flavor was not great for me. Wow.
Gizmo:Start to finish. It was mediocre. So I'm very, very happy at an 8. I thought the cigar performed well.
Alain Crevet:You actually
Bam Bam:liked it you liked it early on, though.
Gizmo:I did. There were some notes that I really liked, but
Senator:it didn't I've can I say something? I feel like people are a little gratuitous with the cigar because it didn't disappoint as much as it had previously disappointed.
Bam Bam:Disappointed. Exactly right.
Senator:That's true. So, like and I haven't had the cigar in maybe, like I'm I'm dead serious now. Last time I had this was maybe when I was 18. Wow. Wow.
Senator:Wow. So that's, like, 20 years.
Alain Crevet:Wow.
Rooster:So you're out of 10?
Gizmo:Yeah. So for, you know, for me, it was,
Bam Bam:it Wait. Senator Nigoya.
Gizmo:It was an it was an okay evening with the cigar tonight, and, it's an 8. Senator. Get
Senator:it out, Bev. Get it out.
Bam Bam:Go ahead, senator.
Gizmo:Oh, no.
Alain Crevet:Get it out.
Gizmo:He's at a 10.
Senator:I just this is comical to me. You're the highest grader in the room.
Bam Bam:This is true. I'm I'm very optimistic about cigars.
Senator:This is correct? Correct. For me, it's an 8. I think the the flavor profile, I like. I mean, it's it's like dessert notes.
Senator:Like, there's, like, an upman like quality about some of the notes that you get in this cigar. The problem for me is that the first 2 thirds, those notes are just too muted to, like, really keep my interest. And Puba says this all the time, like, whenever we're smoking a big cigar. It's a commitment. It's an investment.
Senator:And that's exactly what it is. And so if the flavor is not gonna be pronounced enough to really keep my attention, it's hard for me to want to smoke another one of these cigars. So I I like what they tried to do with the blend. I think the notes are definitely appealing to people like us that love dessert like flavored notes in a cigar. I just think the first 2 thirds were too muted.
Senator:The last 3rd, it started to pick up in a good way. But then I got to the last quarter, and it started to get harsh. It fell apart? And that's where I just didn't really enjoy it nearly as much. So, you know, for me, the the things why I'm very comfortable on 8.
Senator:The 7 didn't really cross my mind. The construction was very good. Burn was excellent. The ash, I I it was I was laughing how many times. I literally was, like, hitting the cigar trying to Very well
Bam Bam:made cigar. Do it.
Gizmo:So they
Senator:did a nice job with that.
Bam Bam:The wrapper was gorgeous. Rapper was beautiful.
Poobah:Yeah.
Senator:My, my draw was a little more resistant than I would have liked. But outside of that, it just needs more. It has the ingredients. It's there. It just needs them to be more pronounced.
Gizmo:A bit
Rooster:more flavor out of that would, like, easily bring it to our mind. Yeah.
Senator:Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Senator:Grindr. So I started off pretty poorly with the cigar as I mentioned. It was just a little harsh tart. Sour. Sour was the word I used, and it it just seemed a little off for me.
Senator:Like, a little funky. And then there was this fleeting moment where it kinda turned after the end of the first 3rd, and it got better. And I was kind of getting some of those cocoa notes that I'm that you guys mentioned, the white chocolate as well. Mhmm. But then it was, like, the biggest tease because it it showed its it showed its, you know, vigor, and then it just kinda dissipated very quickly.
Senator:And it I came into the end of the fur the second, 3rd, and the beginning, basically, all the 3rd, 3rd, Just the, the 3rd, piece there is just kinda boring, and it was constantly just wanting some more. I was I I definitely think the draw has something to do with this because you and I are at Poop I'm looking at Poop right now. We my draw was wide open, and we were definitely ahead of the pack. You know, we were in the Peloton, to use the analogy. And I think that that affected things slightly.
Senator:And, I didn't really enjoy it. I'll be honest. I will never wanna smoke the cigar again. Wow. So I'm giving it a 6.
Rooster:Woah.
Gizmo:I'm not
Bam Bam:I'm not happy with that.
Poobah:You know you know, I I I I don't know. It's not totally unfair. The only thing that I would say is the construction and build Yeah. Of the cigar was exemplary. But I would echo that.
Senator:But the experience was was defunctory.
Bam Bam:I don't know. You know, it just goes to show how inconsistent the cigar is, and I'll I'll just go into my I don't
Senator:wanna be like a like, Lance
Bam Bam:So I was I was in a No.
Poobah:No. But people the inconsistency is a is a real thing.
Bam Bam:I mean Of course.
Poobah:It's real.
Bam Bam:I think we were all surprised how well this cigar started. I'm at an 8. I was an 8 from the beginning. 8 all the way down. The last 3rd, like, about an inch from the bottom.
Senator:Change to a 7. If Ben's an 8, it's gotta be a
Poobah:I'm I'm about I'm gonna revise my score as well.
Bam Bam:No revisions. About an inch away
Poobah:from It's the 3rd 8 that Dan that Sam's given on on the podcast. We actually we need to tally. Can we can we cut those there?
Bam Bam:You to find out that
Poobah:Can we cut those there? How many how many how many eights has Bam ever given? We gotta just We've
Gizmo:done a 130 episodes.
Bam Bam:Over a 130 cigars right now?
Senator:We can't know that, but we can know his average score, which is the highest of this group.
Gizmo:Yeah. That's Absolutely. That's true.
Senator:That
Gizmo:happens. There are no bat cigars.
Rooster:That's right.
Bam Bam:If you like the cigar, it's good for you.
Senator:For the listener, Bam Bam on our lounge wide chat the other day Correct. Usually, he's very critical of
Bam Bam:Very.
Senator:Members who smoke New Worlds that he's never had.
Bam Bam:Unusual New Worlds with Coca Cola images on their bands.
Rooster:And
Senator:what is that? And he's not wrong there. I tend to agree. But then he went to the complete other end of the spectrum the
Bam Bam:other day. You know what I'm saying?
Senator:There's no such thing as a bad cigar, and he was serious.
Bam Bam:Well, if look. I like the interview that we had at PCA with Steve, and I learned a lot from him. And he's a value guy. And if you find value in a cigar and you happen to like this particular cigar, whatever the hell it is, it's a it's a good value for you. So if you like it, it's it's good for you.
Bam Bam:It's very democratic. I like the I like the
Senator:That's a pretty
Rooster:pretty broad statement.
Senator:Yeah. But that's also not saying that there's no such thing as a bad cigar.
Bam Bam:This is true.
Gizmo:We've had a couple of stinkers on the Volvos. Bad cigars. Of course.
Poobah:Why did
Gizmo:you give the Joyo Double Corona an 8 tonight?
Bam Bam:For me, it it started off beautifully. It was an 8 from the beginning. I I'd like the subtle dessert notes. There was there's there was vanilla there that was very faint, but it was very nice. And the the cocoa and the white chocolate was consistent for me all the way through.
Rooster:Dried fruit.
Bam Bam:No dried fruit. It it it smoked very nicely. And it was surprisingly good for how cons inconsistent this cigar has been for all of us
Gizmo:in the room. So for tonight's experience and what we got tonight, it's an 8. Alright, boys. That puts the formal lizard rating on the Toyota Monterrey double Coronas at a 7.7.
Bam Bam:That six killed us, man.
Gizmo:I think the cigar killed us, honestly, man. So let's go through some
Poobah:of our I actually think that it's a It's not
Bam Bam:a bad score. It's a
Senator:pretty good score. Yeah. Yeah. 7 3 quarters.
Rooster:Right?
Gizmo:Yeah. So let's go through some of our other ratings that compared to the pairing that we had tonight. We'll start with VSOP. So the Martell we did tonight, the Blue Swift, got a 9.2. The other Martell we did, the VSOP on episode 85, got an 8.4.
Gizmo:And I think because we discussed it, I'll pull them up. The Remy Martin VSOP we did on episode 40 got an 8.4. The Hein rare cognac VSOP on episode 67 got a flat 9. And then same, h by Hein VSOP. The other VSOP from them got a 6.8 on episode 71.
Gizmo:That was very weak. Yeah. The weakest that we've done was the Doucet VSOP on episode 70 5 at a 5.3. So that might challenge the composite rating that we were talking about for how Cognac has performed.
Bam Bam:Cognac.
Gizmo:And then finally, the Courvoisier VSOP on episode 94 got a 10. Remy Martin 1738, which is a VSOP on episode 53, got a 9.3, and then the Hennessey VSOP got an 8.8. And what did the Martell that this one got? 8.4. No.
Gizmo:No. No.
Bam Bam:No. This was a 9.9.2. I'm sorry.
Senator:Okay. So the
Gizmo:The Martell Blue Swift got a 9.2 tonight. And on episode 85, the Martell VSOP, the straight VSOP got an 8.4.
Senator:They each have a standard VSOP, which both of their VSOPs got in the eights. And then this is between essentially that VSOP and x Even though this is VSOP by designation, but there's no question that there is obviously blended in here some higher age stuff. That's the only way this could be this smooth. So this
Gizmo:This was just one point shot shy of the Remy Martin 1738.
Senator:And we love that. That's become, I mean, a staple in, I think everybody's liquor cap.
Gizmo:Yeah. That was a 9 3, and tonight was a 92. So it's right there. So let's talk about some of the other double coronas we've done on the podcast as well as some of the other entries from Hoyo de Monterrey. Like I said, tonight, the former lizard rating was a 7.7 on the double corona.
Gizmo:Other Hoyos we've done, we did the Epicure number 2 on episode 18, Got a 7.3. On episode 74, one of the weakest cigars we've ever done was the Elahontas. La Casa del Habano released. That was the perfecto, a 4.8.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That was bad.
Gizmo:God, that was horrible. Episode 103, we did the epicure number 1 at a 6.7. So this was certainly on the better end of that, but still, Hoyo has not broken an 8 for the composite on the podcast.
Rooster:Or maybe the Epicure number 3. EPI number 3 might
Rooster:be 1.
Bam Bam:That could be. Yep.
Gizmo:And then finally, the other double coronas we've done, we did the Partagus Lusitania on episode 56. It's got an 8.0. Edge this out just a little bit. I mentioned earlier we did the Ramon, he Gigantes. We did not do that yet.
Gizmo:We did do the Bolivar Corona Gigantes, which was aged quite a bit. That's a discontinued cigar. It was a 9.5 on episode 107. And finally, the best double corona, one of the best cigars we've done on the podcast, the punch double corona on episode 117 was a 9.8.
Bam Bam:Delicious. Delicious.
Rooster:That was
Bam Bam:that was awesome. Cigar.
Senator:Yeah. For a fresh fresh
Bam Bam:cigar. Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. Absolutely. So a great night tonight, boys. Nice to, have SD DuPont CEO Alain Cravet on. Really appreciate his time and conversation and and his generosity with information, on the interview we did at PCA.
Gizmo:Very nice there, rooster, with the Estee DuPont lighter. We should just include that on every intro. Just throw the Estee DuPont lighter in there. And, thanks to all the listeners for writing out to us. We love getting emails and hearing from listeners and hearing what everybody thinks, especially when they bust bam and senators' balls.
Gizmo:So tonight on the podcast, boys, the Martell Blue Swift VSOP We
Senator:can write an email just like you do too.
Gizmo:Exactly. Got a 9.2 on the podcast, and the Toyota Monterrey Double Coronas from Cuba got a 7.7. So like I said, thanks again to Alain Prevay from SD DuPont. Thanks to Fabrica 5 for supporting the podcast, and we'll see everybody next week.
Poobah:Keep smoke.
Gizmo:Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com. That's loungelizardspod.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
Gizmo:If you have any comments, questions, do you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us hello at loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at loungelizardspod. We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.