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Ski Utah's new Last Chair will take you inside Utah's resorts for the story behind the Greatest Snow on Earth®. In a weekly series of audio features, host Tom Kelly will bring you behind the scenes with resort leaders, athletes and fascinating figures who are the stories inside Utah skiing and snowboarding. Whether you're a passionate local snow rider, or a guest to the Utah mountain landscape, you'll learn about mountain life through the stories of the men and women who shape the Ski Utah experience. Each Last Chair episode is 30-40 minutes, with insightful questions and fun anecdotal facts. As a career communicator, Kelly weaves stories with ease bringing listeners inside the mountain tales of Utah skiing and snowboarding.
Tom Kelly: [00:00:00] And a big welcome to Bill Rock, president of the Mountain Division of Vail Resorts. And Bill, good to see you. It's almost ski season, huh?
Bill Rock: [00:00:09] Yeah. Hi, Tom. Good to see you. It's almost ski season. My favorite time of the year. And the excitement is starting with, you know, new snow popping up on mountaintops all around the world right now. So it's exciting.
Tom Kelly: [00:00:22] So have you been following your Clemson Tigers this fall?
Bill Rock: [00:00:26] I have for sure. A little disappointing in week one, but good momentum now after week three. So feeling pretty positive and hoping for the best.
Tom Kelly: [00:00:36] Awesome. You know, I was wondering, we were driving around up in the mountains above Park City Mountain this weekend, and the color is just starting to really, really burst. I always wondered at this time of year, you know, when you're in the ski business, are you feeling mostly excitement or apprehension about what's ahead?
Bill Rock: [00:00:56] I get excited. I stay pretty optimistic and excited all year round. It's what I love. One of the things I love about the ski industry is it's so different. You know, all the time. The seasons are a lot like sports seasons, as you just mentioned, football. It's like, you know, you have the off-season where you're doing some business in the summer, but really it's all about winter. And, you know, the excitement of bringing on your team. And the first time we make snow and the first time we open a resort. And then as the resorts start to open around the country and around the world. Now for us, um, it's just. Yeah, I don't know. It's just I've never stopped being excited, even in all the years that I've been in this business. I love it.
Tom Kelly: [00:01:39] Yeah, it is an interesting time of year when I was working for the U.S. Ski Team. You know, we're just getting pumped about that first race coming up in October. So we're all kind of counting down the days here in Park City now. We enjoyed having you here in Park City for a few years. When you ran the mountain at Park City Mountain. You have a big job right now as president of the Mountain Division, relatively new into that role. Why don't you give our listeners a little bit about what your role is and what your responsibilities are literally across the globe for Vail Resorts?
Bill Rock: [00:02:10] Yeah. Thanks, Tom. I loved my time in Park City, and I'm still, you know, maintain a lot of great, positive relationships with folks there. So. And since then, you know, I left Park City to become the, um, in charge of the Rocky Mountains. But now I'm the president of the mountain division for Vail Resorts, which means I'm responsible for all the resort operations for all 42 of our resorts around the world. You know, including, you know, Whistler Blackcomb, Park City Mountain, Vail Mountain, and our two new acquisitions in Switzerland and our three resorts in Australia. So it's, uh, I was reminded the other day that it may be one of the biggest jobs in the ski industry ever. And that tends to, you know, I tend not to think of it that way, but whenever someone says that, I'm a little bit surprised myself about it. But I'm. I love what I do. I love the people I get to work with. Uh, and like I said earlier, it's there's no duplicate day. No routine really. It's all different almost every day. Almost every season.
Tom Kelly: [00:03:17] Bill, are you able to get a chance to actually get out there much during the season and sample the product? Yeah.
Bill Rock: [00:03:24] You know, I hope you remember this from my Park City days. I used to get out all the time. We're a people business. And so you have to connect with the people that work for us … with us. You have to connect with the community. You have to connect with our guests. And if you don't, you know, especially the more responsibility you get and the more removed you get from day to day, the more, uh, maybe you don't really see exactly what's happening. And so I get on the mountain quite a bit. I when I was in a resort running a resort, I would get 80 days, you know, on the mountain when I'm in my current job. I think I was just shy of 50 last year, and I would say my days are not like maybe your days. You know, I don't go bell to bell as much as I used to, but I go to see things I want to see, you know, people I want to see, experiences I want to experience, opportunities for investment. What we could be doing better. I like to talk to our guests and find out what they think. Um, I like to talk to our front-line staff to find out what they think, what kind of experience they're having, what they need. Um, you know, doing that in person, connection to the experience, to the people, to the resorts, I think is invaluable. So I do prioritize it in the wintertime. And I try to spread out as much as I can.
Tom Kelly: [00:04:48] We have a good friend from Utah, Mike Goar, who now works for you in Switzerland. I just wonder, Mike, for folks listening, probably know him as the longtime leader of Solitude. Then over to Canyons and running Park City Mountain. But how is Mike and his family enjoying Switzerland?
Bill Rock: [00:05:05] Yeah. You know, I just saw Mike a few weeks ago in Switzerland. I plan to go over at least twice this winter. Mike is now overseeing both Andermatt and Crans-Montana, and, as you know, Crans-Montana, will be hosting the world championships in 2027 for alpine ski racing. And so that's exciting. And Mike's doing fantastic. You know, I couldn't think of a better leader to be our ambassador really in Europe as we grow in Europe, he's as you know, and as you mentioned, one of the most experienced leaders in the ski industry, well over 40 years starting in patrol and, you know, working, like you mentioned, leading solitude and then canyons. And for us, you know, he's the epitome of taking advantage of the leadership journey and the opportunities that our company represents. He left Park City, as you know, to go to Keystone. Then he left Keystone to run Heavenly in Lake Tahoe, and then back to Park City Mountain and now to Switzerland to lead our resorts there. It's quite impressive. And I'm grateful for Mike and Heidi, both for being pioneers, you know, on behalf of our company to go there. And they're thriving. When I talk to Mike every now and then, it's like he's on some adventure across Europe. They love to hike. They love the outdoors. They love to golf. They love to ski, of course. And so they're, uh, they're making the most of it. And, I'm just thankful for Mike and Heidi, both for doing that and leading our company in Europe.
Tom Kelly: [00:06:36] Bill, how did you get into the sport as a young boy? I know that your fascination goes way back, but what was it that triggered that instinct for you as a young boy, as a young man, to get into the ski industry?
Bill Rock: [00:06:48] Yeah. So, I started skiing in the fifth grade. I grew up in western New York state. where I grew up, a little town called Naples, New York. There were three ski areas within about ten miles of my house. Two of them were private. You know, that's kind of an eastern thing where they have these little, small, private mountains. And then one of them was called Bristol Mountain. And our school had a ski club. I got on a school bus. And this is why I have such an affinity for our Midwest and Mid-Atlantic resorts who have these night skiing programs and these connections, you know, to these ski clubs. Uh, that's how I started skiing. I got on a school bus, you know, 8 to 10 days a winter with my coupon book, and went to Bristol Mountain and did night skiing. And at that age, you know, fifth grade, sixth grade, it was independence. I was on the mountain by myself. I was with my friends. We were riding the chairlift at night. I really enjoyed that. That's how I got started skiing. And I didn't get into the ski business until much later, But yeah, that was my foundation as I learned as a young kid.
Tom Kelly: [00:07:57] What were some of those elements when you were a young boy that really triggered excitement and made you made you want to get out there to Bristol Mountain?
Bill Rock: [00:08:06] Yeah. Um, well, skiing at night and being independent was one of them. Uh, for sure. Uh, you know, being at night on a mountain, uh, is so special when it, um, when it snows, you know, you're kind of getting a refill day at night, you know, it's 9:00 at night and it's snowing, and you've got it all to yourself under the lights. Bristol Mountain is a fantastic mountain. I started my career there, too. I'm sure you'll ask about that here in a minute, but, um, you know, speed, I would. I probably was not the safest skier in the sixth and seventh grade. I might have pointed them straight a few times, thinking that it was skiing. Um, being with your friends, you know, the social aspect of skiing and, yeah, it was just it was so fun. And, you know, back then, heck, uh, you know, there wasn't really social media, there wasn't video games, there wasn't screen time, there wasn't any of that stuff. And so being able to be outdoors with your friends and be independent at a young age, and the freedom of skiing on a mountain that was just super special and something that I just love.
Tom Kelly: [00:09:16] What was your first job in the ski business?
Bill Rock: [00:09:20] Yeah, I was in the military after college. I was active duty military. When I got out, I moved back to my hometown. So I moved back to Naples, New York, and I was a part-time lift operator for Hunt Hollow, which is a private ski club near Naples. Which is kind of funny because the GM at the time was a guy named Karl Kapuscinski, who now is running a multi-resort ski company in the west, Mountain High and others. And so Karl was my GM. I think he was in his 20s. I was a part-time lift operator. That was my first job.
Tom Kelly: [00:09:55] And when for your first job, were you motivated more by the money of the job or getting a free pass?
Bill Rock: [00:10:03] Yeah, it was definitely the free pass. But I had a full-time job as well. So it was nice because I could work lifts at night and make a little extra money, I yeah, it was all about trying to ski a little bit. And I enjoyed working there. My first full-time job in the ski industry was at Bristol Mountain, and Dan Fuller, the owner, hired me luckily, thank goodness, in 1996 I was the director of sales and marketing, and that was my first professional job in the ski industry. So it's been almost 30 years since I've been in this industry and couldn't be more grateful to make a career doing something I love.
Tom Kelly: [00:10:46] What was your pathway after that in terms of resorts you worked at?
Bill Rock: [00:10:50] Yeah. So, you know, when I. When Dan hired me, I knew that he was taking a chance. And I didn't really know anything about the ski industry. I was a customer. I skied, you know, ten days a year. I had been in the military in the South, so I didn't really ski that much. But I knew that I found my people. You know, when I left the military, it was six years from the time I got out of the military until the time I got into the industry. During that time, I just didn't find that spark that I had in the in the Army. And I found it in the ski industry. I found the people, I found the passion, I found that athleticism. I found the outdoor, you know, just outdoor activities. And and I loved it. And I knew I found the thing I wanted to do for the rest of my life. And I knew Dan gave me a chance of a lifetime. So I worked really hard. I worked really hard at Bristol, I did. I did the snow report every day for 138 straight days. I was the we were skiing until 10 p.m. so I was the night manager usually most nights until 10 p.m. and I did that for two years and I learned a lot. You know, I got to do things that, you know, a lot of folks don't get to do, uh, to learn about the ski industry.
Bill Rock: [00:12:11] And Dan's a phenomenal mentor and teacher, and, but I knew I would probably have to leave Bristol to have the kind of career I wanted. So after two years, I left to go to Stratton Mountain in Vermont. And when it was owned by Intrawest and I was at Stratton for five years, and I had a lot of different jobs at Stratton. Again, I was lucky that I could solve problems and lead people. And so I got a lot of people gave me opportunities to do things. So I started as director of sales, but very quickly started to accumulate different, um, responsibilities. I had at one point I was leading human resources. I led lodging for three years, I had maintenance and ski school and kind of a things that, you know, things that needed some leadership, needed some, maybe some attention. And I got the opportunity to do that. So as a result, I led all that stuff, which again, gave me an incredible baseline for, you know, launching me into a further responsibilities in my career. So I left Stratton, I was recruited to go become the chief operating officer of, at the time, it was called Durango Mountain Resort. But, you know, Purgatory in southwest Colorado. So I was the CEO and president of Purgatory for two years from 2003-05.
Bill Rock: [00:13:29] Then, Intrawest recruited me to run Snowshoe Mountain for them in West Virginia. And so I ran Snowshoe for five years, which was great. It was an awesome experience there. And I joined Vail Resorts in 2010. So when Vail Resorts bought Northstar, they asked me to come out and lead that resort for them. And so I joined Vail in 2010 and Lake Tahoe at Northstar, and then shortly after became responsible for all three resorts in Tahoe. And then, as you know, we bought Park City Mountain in fall of 2014. And I was asked to lead that project and that resort, and I did that. And in 2000. Yeah, I gotta get this right. Yeah. 2019, I was asked to lead the Rocky Mountain region, which was all six of our Rocky Mountain resorts. And then, as we mentioned earlier, I've been a president now for a little over a year of the Mountain Division. So yeah, I'm pretty thankful, you know, for the opportunity to have a career like I just described. I had incredible mentors along the way, like incredible, the best of the best. And, um, you know, I hope to be that for other people. And now that I'm at this part of my career, it seems a little bit surreal. But, um, yeah, I'm so appreciative of the opportunities and the leadership that I've had over the years.
Tom Kelly: [00:14:51] Bill, let's go back to your time in the in the Army. I think you were in the 82nd airborne. What scares you more? Dropping a line through the cliffs off of Jupiter Peak or jumping out of an airplane?
Bill Rock: [00:15:05] Yeah. You know, I have jumped out of an airplane, most recently, a couple of years ago, and I was reminded of what that feels like when you're about to leave a perfectly good aircraft. Um, I don't know. I don't really get scared. I guess it's more, um, nervous and, uh, definitely jumping out of an airplane is probably more nerve-wracking than skiing. And by the way, I don't really drop a whole lot of cliffs, so maybe.
Tom Kelly: [00:15:39] That's. I'm with you. I'm with you. So I'd rather drop jump out of an airplane. Let's, let's, let's talk a little bit about your company. Vail Resorts has been a real innovator and a leader in the industry over the past decade or more. And let's go back to the origins of the Epic Pass. It's now kind of a part of life in skiing, and it's really changed people's habits of how they approach the sport, their ability to travel. But if you look back at the Epic Pass now in the I think it's about 16 years that it's been around, what has that offered and what is that really brought to skiers and riders that you're most proud of?
Bill Rock: [00:16:18] Yeah, it's really a guest, you know, skier-rider-centric product. And it really has transformed the industry, you know, now there's other, as we all know, multi-resort passes that you can buy the spring and summer ahead of the ski season. And it's been it's given a real opportunity for folks to commit commit early and create the kind of ski experiences that they want to have. You know, I think, it's so ... I'm proud that our guests have this very affordable way to go skiing. I mean, I don't know, Tom, with the kind of days you have on the mountain, you're probably paying less. You're probably paying less than you paid. You know, 40 years ago for the days on the mountain, uh, skiing. You know, somebody who skis as often as you do it. You know, the the rate that you're paying per day is, is astronomically low. You know, the idea that folks used to have to pay thousands of dollars to get a single resort pass, and now they can pay much less than that and get 42 resorts, travel to Europe. And the skiing is quote unquote free is pretty amazing. You know, it's pretty amazing. And the fact that that's transformed the whole industry and folks have seen like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Uh, that gives me a lot of pride.
Bill Rock: [00:17:41] It gives me a lot of pride, and our guests love it. And, it's all about a little bit of pre-commitment to get an awesome deal. And it's been probably the single biggest innovation in the ski industry in the last decade. Um, or 16 years, as you mentioned, um, for the business, you know, the, the things that and guests would know this too, right? There'd be, well, what is the local ski area operator going to invest in my mountain? Well, how was the winner? You know, how was the winner? Not, you know, if the winner was bad, maybe the projects got cancelled. If the winner was good, maybe the projects went forward. You know what happened to the staff? And having some pre-commitment, having some certainty about the winter, uh, having a network of resorts, it kind of weatherproofed the skiing for both the customer, the guest, and for the business. And so we can have stability in this time of high variability of weather. Um, folks can have their pass and see where the snow is and go, um, the company obviously benefits because we get a commitment ahead of time. And so it's been good for both our guests and it's been good for the industry because there's more certainty and more sustainability across the board.
Tom Kelly: [00:19:02] Those business aspects make a lot of sense. But I want to kind of explore a different element. One of the things that I've noticed over the past years, and you can apply this to both the Epic Pass and the Ikon Pass, is that we see a lot more people on our chairlifts, now, here in Utah, who are using the pass, and they're shopping different resorts around the country, and they're traveling a lot more to ski than maybe they used to. And some of it, I think, is fairly spontaneous travel. Uh, I don't know if that was initially part of the plan with the Epic Pass, but, uh, what can you say about that aspect and the element of kind of that independence and being able to go and ski where you want?
Bill Rock: [00:19:49] Yeah, I think, you know, if you think about the Epic Pass and that dynamic of you're seeing folks on the chairlift who live in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, who have an Epic Pass. Well, 16 years ago in Park City Mountain, it would have been anyone with a pass that lived there or lived in Utah. And so this idea in the industry that, you know, you had to be a local, you had to ski 50 days, you're going to pay $1,500 for your pass, $1,800 for your pass. And then if you were a destination guest, you're either going to buy, you know, tickets through the wholesale ticket programs, you're going to go to the ticket window. And what the Epic Pass did is it said, no, this is for everyone. It's for destination skiers and riders. It's for everyone. And so if you commit early, if you know you're going to ski somewhere. You know you're going to ski a certain amount of days. You can do the math and you go ahead and commit,and then you can decide where you want to go. In some cases, folks, you know, I grew up in the East Coast, so all of us who grew up skiing had a bucket list. We all wanted to go ski at Vail. We all wanted to go ski at Park City. We all wanted to go ski at Whistler Blackcomb. And so now it's enabled folks to plan and do that and say, okay, this year I'm going to take, oh, I live in New York City, I'm going to ski in Vermont, you know, 3 or 4 weekends, and then I'm going to go to Whistler Blackcomb for my big vacation, or I'm going to go to Vail for my big vacation. So it's definitely changed how people are thinking about who buys a season's pass and why they buy it. And so it's expanded the market, and I think it's been great for skiing. It's been great for our guests, certainly. And, like I mentioned, it's good for the business.
Tom Kelly: [00:21:29] Some have been critical of the Epic Pass for the number of people that it has put on the mountain. I know that you deal with that as a business. How do you strike a balance between the perceptions that people have, maybe the negative perceptions that people have and the positive attributes of the past?
Bill Rock: [00:21:47] Yeah, I think I think the positive attributes far outweigh. I think there is some perception versus reality and there's some. Look, let's face it, there are some days when some mountains get crowded, but there are very few actually. You know, one of the things we saw during Covid, which was a huge advantage from the past or post-Covid, I should say, is people started skiing midweek, you know, and I think part of the crowding narrative came from, well, my Mondays got a little more crowded than they used to be, or my Fridays got a little more crowded than it used to be. And, and um, but our mountains and the whole industry has capacity. Our mountains and our and our whole industry has capacity. And there are days when the capacity gets tested and it gets tested on. We all know those days. We all know those days. It's, you know, the week after Christmas before New Years, you know, Martin Luther King weekend. You know, we all know those days that our capacity can get tested. And our job during that time is to make sure that we understand who's showing up, why they're showing up, and how to handle that volume. And I'm so proud of our team. We've got more data than anybody in the industry. We know how to load chairlifts. We can. We study our chairlift loading. We can. We can load our lifts more efficiently and reduce lift wait times. We've proven that we can do that. And we invest. You know, we invest in uphill capacity, um, at resorts so that we can move folks efficiently and we constantly improve the guest experience.
Bill Rock: [00:23:14] And so, the last thing I'd say is this other dynamic that I've noticed is, you know, Tom, when I started skiing and I would go buy a lift ticket and I'd stick it on the ticket, you know, on my jacket with the other 20 lift tickets that I had hanging off of there. I would ski first chair, last chair at every time. Right. I was trying to Squeeze as much as I could out of it. With the investments that we've made in the uphill experience, you know, faster lifts, um, with the agility that now guests have because they feel like they have a membership almost pass. People are showing up later. Uh, people are leaving sooner, and they're spreading out, you know, not only throughout the day, too. So, yes, there's peaks. Of course there's peaks. There's days when it does feel extremely, you know, crowded. But at the end of the day, there's a lot of capacity in the industry. There's a lot of capacity within the day. And people like you, savvy skiers and riders, even on the busiest of days, you know where to go to get the experience that you want and, try to avoid those places where, you know, tend to get a little bit busier. So I think all in all, it's been a win for the industry. It's been a win for our guests. And like I said, a win for the business to have a pass like the Epic Pass.
Tom Kelly: [00:24:32] You know, as a local skier, I'm a 9:00 a.m. to 11 a.m. skier. I know exactly where I'm going and how to maximize my value. That's a big difference. When I worked for the U.S. Ski Team, I was working mornings and I would go out in the afternoon and that was my ski experience. But I think, you know, particularly as locals, I know if you're if you're coming on a ski trip, you're kind of locked in. But as a local, I know my time is right now and I know how to maximize it. Yeah.
Bill Rock: [00:25:00] Well, it's interesting you say that because I mentioned that we had data, and one of the pieces of data that I've been studying is the first scan of any given day, you know, what's the average time of day for the first scan? And it is much later than you might think. So if you're skiing from 9 to 11, you're you're getting you're getting good skiing. You're probably skiing right on to the lift almost every day. You know, there's exceptions for powder days and things like that. But you're probably getting what you're probably getting as much vertical in those couple hours that you used to get you know, 30 years ago on fixed grip lifts when you skied all day.
Tom Kelly: [00:25:37] Yeah. You know, for for me. And this is just me. 10,000 vertical. That is a really big day for me. So I take it easy. Bill, we're going to take a short break here and we'll be right back. And when we come back, we're going to talk about sustainability and innovation with Bill Rock, the president of the Mountain Division of Vail Resorts. We'll be right back on Last Chair.
Tom Kelly: [00:26:11] We are back with Bill Rock, president of the Mountain Division of Vail Resorts. And Bill, we're going to talk a little bit about sustainability and innovation. And, you know, we're all passionate about this sport, but it's also a sport that is impacted by climate. Your company has been very aggressive in this area. Talk a little bit about how you're addressing and forecasting climate change within Vail Resorts.
Bill Rock: [00:26:35] Yeah. Tom. Thanks. I mean, obviously, this is a question that's critical. It's on everybody's mind, and it's central to everything we do. Just a reminder in in 2017, you know, we announced a bold initiative or commitment to zero. Um, so we would reach net zero operating footprint by 2030. Zero net emissions, zero waste to landfill and zero net operating impact on our forest and habitat by 2030. And you know, I'm really pleased. Like this was bold at the time. Uh, it was again another example of industry leadership. And we've already reached 100% renewable electricity across our North American resorts and 96% enterprise-wide in 2022 and 2023. Um, we're ahead of schedule on our emissions and energy goals and on track to hit our target on waste mitigation. Um, and mitigating force impacts. So here we are. You know, in 2024 feels like 2030 is coming up. We've been on this mission since 2017, and we've made great progress. We do publish a progress report, which for anyone who's interested to track down, it's quite comprehensive and it really tells a story about what we're doing. And I think it comes down to leadership and it comes down to taking care of our own operation. You know, we first focus on our operation, like, what can we do in our own four walls and our own resorts to drive this journey to zero, that we talked about this commitment to zero.
Bill Rock: [00:28:12] And then, of course, we want to be an example for others, and we want to convene and help others in the business, others in the industry, learn from what we're doing and also learn from them. And so we've been very active with our Mountain Collaborative, which includes the four biggest ski resort companies to help come up with solutions. We work very closely with all of our team members who are super passionate about climate change. And then finally, I would say, you know, we invest in clean energy, technology, innovation, certainly snowmaking so that we can continue to sustain the ski industry for a long, long time. The last thing I'll say is having a network of ski resorts is a real, um, really helps us mitigate the impact of climate change. You know, having a network stabilizes the variability. We've seen wide variability in weather lately. And so having a network where, you know, some resorts may be impacted in a different way than others. And so we have some who are doing well in a certain year and some who are doing maybe not as well as they could with the weather helps, um, spread that out and create some stability for our employees, for our guests, um, as they want to ski around the world.
Tom Kelly: [00:29:30] Bill, are there any programs that you can highlight right here at Park City Mountain in Utah? Yeah.
Bill Rock: [00:29:36] You know, I'm really proud of the programs in Park City. I was part of it when I was there as the CEO. And then to see them, you know, none of these come quickly, as you probably know. And so to get the ball rolling and then see them come to fruition. So there's a solar project called the Elektron Solar Project. So we're a partner on that. Um, it's an 80-megawatt solar farm. It broke ground in 2021 and it reached commercial operations earlier this year and so that provides on-grid solar energy for 100% of Park City Mountain's electrical needs. And, so we were a partner on this project. Park City Mountain was but also the whole um, Park City Municipal and others have been partners in the Electron Solar project, and um, helped us be 100%, um, on grid solar energy. So that's one waste diversion is another one. You know, food waste coming off the mountain is one of our goals is to .... And we were able to divert 225 tons of food waste from Park City Mountain in 2000, between August of 2023 and July of 2024. And so we sought waste. You've probably seen our staff sorting waste on the mountain. One I mentioned my resort visits. When I go visit a resort on a busy day, I'll help sort waste, um, to get it in the right spot, but we help partner with a digester down in Salt Lake, and we were one of the first big providers of material for this digester where they, um, basically turn waste into energy and put that back into the grid. So that's been a big project for us, um, in Park City. So those are those are two good ones. And then finally, we invest in snowmaking infrastructure that's high efficiency. And so it reduces our energy use, including, uh, you know, snowmaking on this project this coming summer or the summer that we're in another world and chicane at canyons. So, three really good examples of how we approach sustainability and invest in things that help, you know, reduce the impact for climate change.
Tom Kelly: [00:31:47] Bill, I want to go back to the Elektron solar energy project that had a lot of attention when it was announced earlier this year here in Utah. And I think of all the things you mentioned, that's one that's probably the easiest to kind of put your hands on and see, because it's very it's very physical. But it is this the type of innovation that, that you're looking at? Uh, at other places in the world where you do business?
Bill Rock: [00:32:14] Yeah, we, you know, we one of the things that we like to do is really look at and partner with the community. And so when there are big opportunities, we want to be part of that and help lead that. Sometimes, our scale and size can be really influential in getting some of these projects done. If we're an early adopter, then other people want to come along. You know, if we can attribute resources to it, then other folks want to attribute resources to it, and we can build these kind of infrastructure that helps not only our local resort, but also the whole community. I think, you know, Park City generally, the community and also Salt Lake City will benefit from and have benefited from the Elektron Solar project. So if we can be an enabler for that, um, similar with the digester that I mentioned, we were an early adopter. One of the I think because we were an early adopter, we were able to bring others along and bring and help bring that project to fruition. So those are those are roles that we can play and we love to play. So with other members of our community so we can work together to solve these big, big challenges.
Tom Kelly: [00:33:25] Bill, when you and I were growing up skiing and I grew up before you. So, it was even simpler back then. But things were really pretty simple. In today's day and age, technology is really driving innovation. There's technology that's supporting snow making from to lifts to cafeterias, checkouts and so forth. What are, first of all, what's the importance of innovation to you at Vail Resorts? And how is technology driving this?
Bill Rock: [00:33:54] Yeah. Thanks. Innovation. You know, even the Epic Pass is a massive innovation. And I'm really proud of our company because we do lead the way in so many different types of innovation. In fact, we were recently recognized by Fast Company magazine as one of the world's most innovative companies. And yeah, it gives me, and it gives all of our team, great pride. You know, a couple of examples of innovation in technology, you know, and, you know, as a guest of travel and leisure, things are innovating rapidly. You know, having gone from what I mentioned, the sticky-backed lift ticket on your wicket, to now in Vail Resorts, you can have your lift ticket, pass access on your phone, and be read passively on your phone. You don't have to take it out. You can leave it in your jacket. Um, the mobile technology to enable that is a great guest experience. You don't have to go to the lift ticket window anymore. You know, just the fact that you don't have to go to the lift ticket window anymore, and you can download your lift ticket onto your phone and go right to the lift is a is a huge, huge innovation that we that we've had. Um, I'm really excited for our My Epic Gear, which is an innovation in how people rent skis. You know, the rental model has not changed since I've been in the ski business, and I'm not sure many people love the rental model. I mean, of course, there's the delivery model that's emerged over the last few years, but the idea of, you know, having to do things through a very standard process, um, was ripe for some innovation.
Bill Rock: [00:35:35] And so we launched the pilot for My Epic Gear, and now we've launched it for this next year at a bunch of our resorts. And it is a great experience. So imagine that you can go on your app, uh, sign up for a membership, a very affordable membership, go to one of our resorts, have the skis of your choice waiting for you on snow, and you go and click in and go skiing. That's your rental experience. Um, you can bring your own boots. You can rent boots from us. And there's a way for the boots to be fitted. I participated in the pilot last year. It's called My Epic Gear, by the way. You can sign up for it. And it is. It's a dramatic increase and an improvement in the rental experience. You know, like like you, Tom, there are probably some skis that have been on your bucket list that you've wanted to try. And when I first signed up for the app, it was serving me up skis. And I'm like, oh yeah, I've always wanted to try that pair of Stöckli's, but I've never wanted to go through the hassle of like a high-end demo or a demo day or any of that stuff. And so I've never done it. And sure enough, I reserved them at Vail. They were waiting for me on the snow. I clicked in and went skiing.
Bill Rock: [00:36:51] And it was it was incredible, incredible experience. Now, if you think about our destination guests, you mentioned this a minute ago. What is one of the biggest challenges they face when they travel? Well, they own gear. If they own gear, they've got to store their gear. It's in their house. If they're in New York City or one of those big cities, you know, they don't have a lot of space. Gear is getting out, becoming obsolete as they keep it, but they want to keep it because they invested in it, or they're leaving their gear and they're coming to a resort and they're having to go through that whole process. So if you're a traveling skier, you know, if you want to bring your boots, bring your boots, if you don't have boots for you, and then you'll be able to go right to snow at one of our resorts, it's a you don't have to go through airport checkout. You don't have to check your skis. You don't have to, you know, travel with gear. You don't have to worry if your rental car is big enough because you don't have the right rental car to carry gear. It's a game changer for rental, and I'm excited to see how it's it's going to work and it's going to my experience with it was amazing. Um, I mentioned the cost side. It's $50 for a membership, I think. And I think the skis are like $45 a day. So it's it's very competitive compared to a normal rental.
Tom Kelly: [00:38:07] And, Bill, it's all mobile app driven?
Bill Rock: [00:38:10] Yeah. So it's on your app, which is super cool because you go into you go into the app and it remembers everything about you. So you don't have to ... when you go into a rental shop and you have to keep saying, well, I'm a level three, and you know, you have to tell them how much you weigh. That's always fun in person. And so you get to you get to have all that stuff stored and it just shows up and says, 'hey, Bill, where are you going?' You say, well, I'm going to I'm going to Keystone, and you click Keystone, and then you can even look at the weather and say, oh man, it looks like it's going to be a powder day. I want white, I want a wide ski. You can get a powder ski. It's all state-of-the-art top line, current inline in your inventory and snowboards as well. So you you can do both and, and you can even change skis in the middle of the day. If something changes. You don't like the ski or it starts snowing midday. It's really flexible, and it's incredible.
Tom Kelly: [00:39:04] It's incredible. Bill, one of the areas that's always intrigued me is lift technology. And I grew up in an era where a double chairlift was a big deal. No such thing as high speed. And now we're we're getting these really futuristic lift systems. You're actually putting one in at Canyons Village now over the next couple of years. But what advancements do you see in Lyft technology that will help you at Vail Resorts?
Bill Rock: [00:39:29] Yeah, I think the lift manufacturers have just done a tremendous job of really innovating themselves, whether it's the first detachable bubble chairs, heated chairs, eight packs, you know, the big lifts. Now, of course, you go to Europe, and you see all sorts of incredible things. I think two things I think that lift manufacturers are working on that, that are really interesting. One is definitely always safety. So they're always looking at safety enhancements, and you know how to incorporate AI into safety. There are some lift installations in Europe that are basically autonomous, kind of where they don't even have an operator, but it's AI monitored, and it's a gondola. So it makes sense. And so I think over time, you know, the safety and reliability. The data that we can get from lifts is just going to do nothing, nothing but get better and better. As you know, they pioneer a lot of this in Europe. And so having a front-row seat to it now with two resorts in Switzerland is super helpful for me personally to learn about it, but also for our company.
Tom Kelly: [00:40:37] Actually, I hadn't thought about that. But with your European footprint now, you really do get a bird's-eye view of it.
Bill Rock: [00:40:45] Yeah. It's amazing. Even in the short time we've had Andermatt Sedrun, just the things we learned, like how they do food and beverage. It's pretty special. How they how they they do invest in technology for snowmaking and lifts. And so there's definitely things we can learn pretty quickly from our European colleagues.
Tom Kelly: [00:41:09] One of the things that I know, many of us use our phones for now is just getting from place to place. How can how can mobile apps help us in the future? Getting to the resort, finding parking and knowing how to navigate around the mountain.
Bill Rock: [00:41:27] Our app, My Epic app, has really incorporated a lot of technology and assistance for the guest experience. I mean, we want the app to be an essential, um, enabler for folks to have an amazing time on the mountain. You know, one of the things that I hear about from guests is inconsistencies with real-time information. And, so the app can help with that. Like what's the status of a lift in our app? We actually even have predicted lift wait times. So if you're sitting, if you're sitting on the top of the lift and you're deciding, should I go right or left, you know, you can actually look at your map and see the real-time and the predicted wait time of that lift and decide, oh, I'll go over to another chair. Not that one. Right. I'll go to Motherlode instead of Silverlode. Now, you might know that intuitively because of your background in Park City, but if you're a destination guest and you look at that and say, oh, Motherlode doesn't have a lift line. Oh, Silverlode, nine minutes. Okay, I'll go to Motherlode. And so helping people make decisions about how to navigate the mountain.
Bill Rock: [00:42:27] You know, put a dot where they are on the mountain. We will be incorporating AI into My Epic app. And so it can be really a virtual assistant for people on the mountain, including, you know, all the things that cause our guest tension, especially when they don't know the mountains as well as we do as locals. So where do I drop my kids off at ski school? Where do I park? How do I park? Where do I eat? What's open? What's the menu like? Like all that stuff is going to be central to the app, and a lot of it is already central to the app. And it'll only get better and better. It will only get better and better. As AI and other technologies emerge. And as I said earlier, we're at the forefront of a lot of innovation in technology. And a lot of this is not new to travel. It's not new to, um, to the public for sure. There's so much out there right now, but it's definitely new to skiing and snowboarding and mountain resorts.
Tom Kelly: [00:43:29] Yeah, I love to use the wait times on the app. It just really helps me to plan my day. I think the biggest challenge, though, is getting people to understand that and get them to use it, because it's an amazing tool to find your way around the mountain. Yeah it is.
Bill Rock: [00:43:43] I take a lot of pride in that, and we've done a lot of work modeling that. And you know, we audit accuracy. It's accurate and it does. It helps people make decisions about where to go. You know we've all been in that spot where we've made a turn, gotten to the bottom of the lift, and goes, uh oh, I made a mistake. And we're waiting there longer than we had hoped to. And, you know, had we known that, you know, when we made that turn down that trail, we would have made a different decision and be totally fine. We know the mountains. We know the lifts at Park City that are less likely to be crowded. And so we know that intuitively. But if we can teach our guests that as well, or even everybody out.
Tom Kelly: [00:44:20] Let's shift gears and talk about the Olympics this summer. The International Olympic Committee awarded the 2034 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games to Salt Lake City, Utah, and this will be the first time that a Vail Resorts property has actually had the Winter Games. For you, as a company and in particular with Park City Mountain, which is a venue. What's the sense of pride and engagement and being involved with the games in 2034?
Bill Rock: [00:44:48] Yeah. It's exciting. You know, as I mentioned, I got to work on this early on in the bid process with Colin and Fraser and the organizing committee, who worked so hard to put it together. And by the way, they just did an unbelievable job, really best in class in terms of preparing the bid package and getting stakeholders engaged and just such a complete effort on behalf of the community and the state to get it for Utah. And so we are so excited to be part of the 2034 Olympics. Uh, You know, even when I was involved early, I was kind of rooting for 20, 30 myself. But 2034 seems amazing. Yeah, we've we own resorts that have hosted the Olympics before. Obviously Whistler Blackcomb. Park City in 2002. We know what it means to the community. We know what it means to our team. You know, our team is super excited. Take a lot of pride in it. We know what it means for our hometown athletes. You know, my kids were on the farm team, uh, and ski racing and Park City Mountain. My son skied with Daron on his team, you know, and that tradition. And we know kids who are likely to be on the 2034 Olympics, you know, in Park City, um, or on the U.S. Ski Team. Some are already headed that way. And that's cool. You know, to have hometown heroes who are going to be showcased in the Olympics in their own town, and to be able to provide that experience is just amazing. So, um, we love our ability to partner with the state, with the organizing committee, with town community and the other venues. We have a collegial relationship with our counterparts in the ski industry. And we, you know, we like to collaborate in areas that make sense. And hosting the Olympics is definitely one of those areas. So, yeah, it's exciting. It'll be here before we know it, but a lot of work to do between now and then.
Tom Kelly: [00:46:47] From a broader perspective, do you see how a Games and the awareness created around the games in American can kind of help to raise the level of interest for the sport across the country?
Bill Rock: [00:47:01] Oh, definitely. There always seems to be an excitement, and when the Games happen, Americans pay attention to snow sports, maybe for the first time every four years, you know, sometimes. And so, yeah, there's definitely a benefit to it. It's great that we have resorts spread out throughout the world and also throughout the United States, where in the Midwest, those little resorts are a lot like Bristol Mountain, the resort I started at. And to see kids get excited and go, oh, yeah, I want to do that. You know, I want to race. I mean, I want to be, and I want to ski. I can do that. I can, I can, I can do slopestyle and we have the mechanism to convert that enthusiasm into a lifelong passion for skiing and riding. And we're as well poised to do that as any ski company ever has been. And so, yeah, I'm excited for the opportunity to introduce thousands and thousands of kids from all different, diverse backgrounds into the sport as a result of the enthusiasm from the Olympics. It's a ways away, but we will be well-prepared to do that.
Tom Kelly: [00:48:06] Ten years is going to come really quickly. Bill, let's just close it out with a few broad questions. If you look into the crystal ball ten years, 20, 25 years out, what do you see the ski industry going? What's it going to look like in another 15, 20 years from now?
Bill Rock: [00:48:25] Yeah, I get asked this a lot, and I'm probably ... I'm not sure what's it going to look like in 15 or 20 years. We all know, and we talked about this earlier, that climate change is going to be an impact and across snowsports industry. And so how that's going to play out ... the innovation in snowmaking technology, the geographic diversity of our network so that we can kind of insulate ourselves from the variability. The passion for snow sports that come with snow. I think that's that's TBD. I think the next thing I'll talk about is inclusion. Our sport is not very diverse. It's not a not a surprise to anyone. And our population is becoming more diverse. Most people learn how to ski when they're kids. I just saw some census data that says, for the first time the majority of kids under age 18 are non-white. And we have to do a better job as an industry, making sure that our mountains feel like it's for them, for everyone. Our company is doing a lot of great work in this space. But, you know, creating a more diverse, appealing experience for a diverse guest base is really critical for our industry. And, not only that, it's just the right thing to do, right?
Bill Rock: [00:49:58] I've benefited from an incredible connection to the mountains. You've benefited from an incredible connection to the mountains. Why wouldn't we want everyone to have it, no matter what their backgrounds are? And it's so inspiring. And I talked about the freedom of being on the mountain earlier and I think we're going to see a much more inclusive mountain resort guest base, much more diverse. And that makes me happy and something I'm passionate about working towards. And then lastly, we talked about the guest experience. You know, the more and more, and this is true for probably every aspect of our lives, but the more and more technology advances, the more it's going to be part of how we experience things. And I think we talked about how the app or certain technology can improve the guest experience. I think that's only going to get better and better over time as guests adopt more of this technology. Remember when you used to print out your boarding pass at the same time you had your mobile? Well, that's still going to happen for a little while. But after a while, like you probably don't print out your boarding pass anymore, I don't print out my boarding pass anymore. Online banking. When was the last time you walked into a bank? And so, these sorts of adoption of technology are coming rapidly. And it will infiltrate into the guest experience only to make it better.
Tom Kelly: [00:51:13] One quick shout-out on the diversity front. I know this is just one small piece of the puzzle, but I really like the SOS Outreach program, which I know you have in place at a number of your resorts. What a great mentorship program that is to get a segment, a very important segment of our community, onto the hill.
Bill Rock: [00:51:32] Yeah, that is, to me, I love the SOS program and all of our programs across our network where we introduce folks from all different backgrounds to skiing and snowboarding. The SOS foundation started in Vail Mountain, but it just goes to show you how our scale as a company and our ability to build this network has not only expanded our company, but expanded SOS. So they've gone all over. You know, Seth and his team have gone kind of all over our network and invested in programs that have introduced thousands and thousands of kids to the outdoors. And so we can generate the next generation of skiers and riders and, yeah, there's no ski company at scale that can do it the way we're doing it. And it's something I'm proud of. It's something our employees are really proud of.
Tom Kelly: [00:52:18] Let's look backward for just a minute. It's tough to look forward, but looking backward is all about memories. But as a lifelong skier, what gives you the most satisfaction today in your role?
Bill Rock: [00:52:30] I love the people. I love the people that I work with and our guests. I get so much satisfaction. I talked about this earlier. I get so much satisfaction out of talking to part-time lift operators, full-time lift operators. Someone who's just starting out their career in a full-time, year-round job and telling them about my career and telling them about what's possible and telling them that if they work hard and they invest in their future, and they learn how to lead people and solve problems like they can have an incredible career, they could be in my job. And it's true. It could be in my job. You know. Beth Howard, who leads Vail Mountain, started out as a college intern chopping vegetables. And now she's leading Vail Mountain as the chief operating officer. And it's possible in this industry, it's one of the things that makes me so inspired and passionate about this industry is that no one makes you check a box. If you're if you're good, if you're a hard worker, if you care, if you're passionate, if you can lead people, if you can solve problems, you're going to get all the opportunity in the world.
Bill Rock: [00:53:34] And it gives me a ton of satisfaction to see people like, you know, Deirdra Walsh, who's leading Park City Mountain, who was leading food and beverage when I got there in 2014. And now she's the chief operating officer. You know, Brian Suhadolc, who was the vice president of mountain operations at Park City Mountain for years and years and years, went to lead Mount Snow. And now he's vice president of mountain ops at Whistler Blackcomb for us. Mike Goar, you talked about Mike, you know, his ability to go to Switzerland and take on all those roles. So these are folks you all know in Park City, and they have all had these incredible career opportunities. And that gives me the most satisfaction when I see people do their best work and get to have these incredible experiences and jobs. Yeah, I love it, I love it, and I, yeah, it gives me the most satisfaction in my role.
Tom Kelly: [00:54:24] Well, Bill, thanks for all of your thoughts. We're going to close it out with our Fresh Tracks section. These are going to be some short rapid-fire questions for you. Hopefully nothing too complicated. And we're going to start it out with -- Bill skis or snowboard.
Bill Rock: [00:54:38] So I do both. When I got in the industry I snowboarded exclusively for ten years. And then I started converting slowly back. So I'm probably 90% ski, 10% snowboard, but I do both.
Tom Kelly: [00:54:52] Favorite ski run in Utah.
Bill Rock: [00:54:55] This is going to be an unusual one for everybody, but I love Aplande at Canyons. So Aplande is a north-facing black diamond run off of Condor. And it's a quick hit. Beautiful, steep vertical. It's north-facing, so the snow always holds. And it's a little it's a it's a maybe it's a little local secret. So sorry everybody.
Tom Kelly: [00:55:19] That's very local because I don't even know that one. So I'm going to be out there in a couple months. Your favorite opera experience in Park City?
Bill Rock: [00:55:30] Oh, man. so the Canyons Village is really special and it's coming on. And so I like hanging out at the Umbrella Bar at Canyons Village. Uh, on a sunny day in the spring, it's hard to beat.
Tom Kelly: [00:55:43] This is one of the problems when you ski like I do from 9 to 11, is that you do miss that experience. So that is a good spot. Uh, your best skate. Your best ski day ever.
Bill Rock: [00:55:54] My best ski day ever has to be with my kids and it was at Heavenly in Lake Tahoe. And we were skiing down California, and it was a groomer, and it was back when I was always like skiing behind my kids to protect them, you know, from maybe what might be happening behind them. And I decided just to go forward and pass them, and I thought I was going to have to wait for them at the bottom. And they were both standing there right next to me. So the day that they passed me and then I couldn't keep up. That was a great day. Uh, but yeah, skiing with my family at Heavenly was magic that day.
Tom Kelly: [00:56:32] Dodgers or Yankees?
Bill Rock: [00:56:37] Haha. I'm a Yankees guy. I grew up in New York State. My whole family is Yankees fans and, yeah, Yankees.
Tom Kelly: [00:56:45] You gotta admit, the Dodgers are putting on a show right now.
Bill Rock: [00:56:49] Yeah, I mean, Ohtani is fantastic. And judge, it's like the golden age of baseball right now and it's fun to watch.
Tom Kelly: [00:56:56] Yeah it is groomers bumps or powder.
Bill Rock: [00:57:01] Okay I'm going process of elimination. No bumps. Right?
Tom Kelly: [00:57:05] Right on to that.
Bill Rock: [00:57:07] Soft bumps. Well, you gotta go powder, don't you, Tom? I mean, come on,
Tom Kelly: [00:57:12] I go groomers.
Bill Rock: [00:57:15] I mean, there's nothing wrong with a good groomer, but powder day. No.
Tom Kelly: [00:57:19] I hear you. Uh, lastly, one thing that you're most proud of in your time at Vail Resorts.
Bill Rock: [00:57:29] Yeah, it goes back to what gives me the most satisfaction. I'm proud of the careers folks have been able to have. Uh, as a result of our leadership culture. Makes me proud every day when I think about it.
Tom Kelly: [00:57:39] Bill Rock, president of the Mountain Division of Vail Resorts, thanks so much for sharing your time with us today, and look forward to skiing with you this winter. Bill.
Bill Rock: [00:57:48] Yeah, I'll make sure to track you down. Tom. Thanks for the time and wish you all the best.