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Losing weight should't be expensive or complicated. The ideal process would reduce our stress while driving results. Dr. Z weaves together his perspective on physical and mental health and the powerful way that fasting can connect these two spheres of our lives. Let's move toward total wellness and a holistic vision of health and healing. Learn more at SimpleFasting.com
Our culture is focused on out of the box
thinking.
We glorify it, don't we?
We celebrate figures
who are the most creative
and from a certain point of view,
say there's nothing wrong with it.
I'm very much in favor of out of the box
thinking, but
it is not the only type of thinking.
And what if it came to be
that actually thinking inside the box
was actually a more functional
and productive space most of the time.
Who even has heard about that?
Can you imagine a guru on a video
sitting there and saying,
you know what you need to do?
You need to start thinking inside the box
a little bit more.
This book Inside the Box
How Constraints Make Us better.
David Epstein
just read this a little bit ago,
and he is challenging some conventional
wisdom, and I think it is very applicable
to the type of thing that we are
trying to do here in fasting space.
Build a very thoughtful space
in the body where it is
functional and productive,
and helps us to accomplish
health goals that we want.
Is a type of expansive thinking.
No limits everything on the table.
Or does actually creating someone that's
this is what a fasting space is.
Some boundaries to eating that says here
is where eating takes place
and here is where it doesn't.
I gave the analogy in the description
here, like bumper bowling.
If we are trying to head down a narrow
path trying to strike the target,
can you see the little bumpers,
little guidelines actually helping
to guide that ball, especially if we're
rolling a lot of gutter balls, you know.
Do you ever feel that that it's like, man,
I'm moving on a health journey
and I just, having some gutter balls.
Wouldn't some guidelines
helping to guide that along?
This is the type of idea.
Really enjoyed
this book how constraints make us better.
It is full of us.
Real life stories and analogies
and things to help us in this regard.
And I want to share a very,
I think, powerful story
from it right at the beginning.
Listen to this.
This person,
lady lady clots,
I think, is how you say it.
An engineer and architecture professor
at the University of Virginia has shown
that humans, reflexively
and in order to solve problems.
Just think about this.
Think about it
in terms of the dieting space,
about like,
oh, we're gonna add this supplement,
add this special thing
and add this special food.
Right?
It's like we want to add
hard to take away.
We talk about embracing limits
even in a dieting space,
not the way we like to think.
Here they go on.
More people, more money, more features.
And it goes on and on.
Even when subtracting is better.
In the simplest demonstration
in their research,
adults were given a Lego structure
that needed to be strengthened
in order to hold a masonry
brick over the head of a Star Wars
Stormtrooper action figure.
So each problem solver could earn money
by completing the task.
But there was a catch.
Every piece they added
reduced their reward.
And yet most people added multiple pieces,
even though removing just a single,
obviously precarious piece
that is hanging over
the person
solve the problem instantly, right?
People spending money building supports
when they can just take one away.
Isn't that amazing?
How many times do you think we'd
do something like that in our life?
Because like they're saying, always
the answer is more always add.
Look at what fasting space is showing us
right away.
All the confusion of every diet
and all the things
when we could say at the very first step,
we can just take something away.
Problem solved in many cases.
All right. Problem solved.
It's the complexity problem, right,
that we're trying to do.
I say simple fasting.
Simple, but not easy necessarily. Right.
That's why we have a space
where we're very thoughtful
and we open up a lot of thinking
to help people do it,
help us to sit in a space
where we can flow through it.
Right?
Because isn't this a mind game?
Right. Body knows what to do.
Body can handle a fasting space
as we gently open it up
and especially allow it to open up
over time, build out the strength of it.
But it is a mental game.
A especially
is that your experience? Let me know.
You know what is your experience?
Remove the piece. Isn't it?
Just like this analogy, think of building
our diet like building this tower.
Are there precarious pieces hanging?
Are there things that we could just take
back in the same thing here?
Like you have to spend money
to build more pieces.
Think of all the money that is spent
when fasting is just saying, like, look,
a piece can be taken away.
They go on this instinct to always
add.
Is a strong cognitive bias.
Long before their work demonstrated it
scientifically, product designers
had come up with various names
for this tendency, like feature itis
or the Christmas tree effect,
like hanging ever more ornaments
on a tree, often
at the expense of coherence and usability.
I don't know, that sounds fun too,
though, doesn't it?
Without helpful constraints are powerful.
Instinct is more.
More.
Bigger.
Bigger.
In the absence of bounds
can end up, they say here,
like general magic,
general magic is how they open the book.
Are you familiar with this company?
Did you ever hear of it?
There's actually a documentary on it
that I watched on a plane
flight somewhere quite a while ago,
so I knew about it
before reading this book,
but the book starts out on it.
General magic was formed by a bunch of
Apple, employees.
I think in the very early 90s,
they had just finished making the Mac,
you know, the first personal computer.
You know,
all these incredible things happened,
and these folks had the idea.
They basically had the iPhone.
They had it all mapped out.
Maybe even in the late 80s.
And they had everything
email, texting, online shopping.
GPS maps, just everything was in it
and they had
it all mapped out,
but the technology wasn't quite there.
And then they
they formed this whole company around it,
you know, 20 years ahead of its time.
And they sold the vision
and everybody loved it and wanted it.
And the money poured in.
And they were called
the first concept IPO.
They had no profits, they had no product,
they had no revenue, and just billions
of dollars flowed into it.
And every top engineer
wanted to work there.
And it's essentially a
company with no constraints.
Anything that you
want, prices no object.
And and that ended up with them
trying to rebuild every technology
from scratch.
And they ended up
wasting all the money and,
and never even had a product
and the whole thing just collapsed.
And so this is just an incredible space.
And so, so many lessons learned from that,
that in fact limits and constraints,
even in an incredibly innovative
and creative space.
We need guidelines and boundaries
in order to guide
and shape the experience.
So when we bring these concepts
down into our life,
like what kind of limits
are actually the type of thing
we say inside the box,
that it actually is a more creative space,
that it actually drives real progress.
Because like when there's no limits,
then anything can happen.
And then it's like we're kind of all over.
There's a phrase in here,
something like, you know, a soccer field
without the lines is, is just an open,
you know, space or something like this,
but all of a sudden you paint some
lines on it and now the game can happen.
Right? And
so to me, that is the type of space
that I love it.
Just like I said, the analogy
I put in here, bumper bowling.
Think about that 168.
It's like two lines.
Like what I'd like to say two meals a day.
It's like,
how do we keep the eating on track
so we can get a strike in this day
as like one meal on one side, one
meal on the other side, here's a window.
And then we just roll on the ball down
the alley.
as opposed to right when,
when eating could be anywhere,
when there's no guidelines
anywhere, then eating probably
is, you know, all over the place.
And that's I've talked to people
I know that's been my experience.
No structure, no pattern.
Like I'll eat here, then I'll eat
there is like we end up eating
all throughout the day,
very hard to eat less
when the total amount of time
when we are eating is higher.
Like, do you find that to be true?
I think this is
one of the underappreciated things
in medicine actually, as as far as fast
and goes, people say, well,
fasting only works
because it helps you to eat less,
and I've never really understood
why someone thinks that that's a problem.
I think that there is more to it.
There are hormonal effects
that are happening,
but I don't really argue that with people.
Like if the only reason
that fasting helped
someone
is because it helped you to eat less,
then it would still be incredibly valuable
because it.
I mean, I know my experience.
Have you noticed it's
not easy to eat less?
I mean, it just isn't.
And so any tool
that can help you to eat less,
especially if it can help you do it
in a way where it's not difficult.
And this is the trick that we're trying
to play with a fasting space.
How do we practice
this process, get better at it
so that it's just easy to flow through?
Just say, maybe it's not easy to start,
but it is the goal.
Like is what I want for people.
I want it to feel like a place of ease
in the body where it's like,
oh, body strong
now, like we have got this
and then we just carry on, you know,
and we don't even have to think about it.
And in my experience of people
who really have
a sustainable process
long term with fasting,
the people, it just fades, you know,
it just fades into the background.
This is the type of thing that I do
and it's not, you know, such a big deal.
So we definitely
want to be flowing through
a space like that.
Are you finding a space like that?
What is your experience with it?
I would love to hear.
Feel free to share your thoughts
and experiences with it.
I do some more thinking from this book.
It is.
It is very thoughtful.
Like I said, lots of.
Concepts like that.
The limits
that bring freedom.
Actually, we talked about that concept
the other day, fasting as freedom.
It's a complete inversion
of the way that society
typically thinks, wouldn't you say?
Maybe you have thought about it
that way in the past,
a space of restriction saying, oh, like we
look at it from our perspective,
look at all these times
when I'm not going to be eating.
We can see it from a negative
point of view, the other side of it,
the way that breaks out of it,
really in line with this,
the limits that we can have that we see,
oh, when I put it into this context.
This is actually the path
that we can walk down,
like the alley with the bumpers on it.
Oh, this is going to keep us on track.
And does it actually work?
Does it actually work?
They do a lot of
analogies in here of business because
and I think it's a good analogy because
without guidelines you can spend money
on all kinds of things.
And it kind of fritters away.
Right.
So if we have very strict guidelines
like on how the money is spent,
then it can be channeled and focused.
So I've used that analogy in the past.
Fasting as an investment.
I really like it.
I did a session somewhere back there
fasting wealth vision visioning, fasting.
Like if it was,
if you received something tangible
that you can see like a gold coin,
and every time
you built up a fasting space,
you were stacking up,
you know, gold coins, you say, well,
that would be motivating, you know,
but we can't see it.
But the analogy that you can feel it
can you feel that in your body?
This is the way that I want people
to be experiencing it.
Never forcing your way
through a fasting space, always being open
to it, at least being neutral to it,
feeling called to it, and ideally curious.
You know,
I really like a curious mindset for it.
What does the body feel like
if we are fasting in this day,
you know, can we feel the energy
and does it feel like
energy is being released and positive?
If there is a specific purpose for it?
You know, we said yesterday
fasting is a tool.
Some people treat fasting process
like it's its own thing,
like we're going to get some gold medal
if we do some rigid structure for so long.
But like I always tell people,
you don't sign any contract
like nothing that you have to do.
Like where is the energy flowing?
If we create guidelines, do they serve us?
If we put some guidelines on a thing
and we embrace them
and it is really helping us
to move forward, then
that is the beautiful thing that this is
trying to help us see but never required.
That's the balance
that I would say with it.
So as a concept,
does staying inside of a box help you?
Where
to? Stepping outside of a box help you?
These are analogies,
and you can think of it in different ways.
We can interpret
Society
and typical social
eating patterns themselves as a box.
And so like fasting
could be outside of the box
if we think of it that way,
if that's an easier way to think of it.
It's like I feel trapped
in this box of constant consumption.
It's like everywhere I go, it's like
you have to keep eating all the time.
It's like, eat less, but never stop.
Very difficult to do.
It's like you.
You eat a little bit.
This is my experience.
You eat a little bit.
It's like, where is the rest?
Like,
I would like some more of that, you know?
And it's like.
So the more terms we do it,
the more opportunities
we have to have an experience like that.
Then we've got to dial up our willpower,
and then we got to be like,
oh, I was enjoying eating that.
Like we're
just turning on the digestive system.
And then we got to stop.
And then you, you know,
do you feel that like we're stuck
between modes in the body?
In my experience in medicine,
everything I've studied and experience
in working with people seems clear to me
that the body is designed to eat a meal.
You know, you eat a meal,
you turn on a digestive system,
it cranks up all the digestive hormones,
it runs through the system,
and then it shuts it down.
Like then we feel satisfied, right?
Little bits of food
do not crank up satiating hormones
the way a meal does,
and so it kind of can leave us hanging.
And then we can be in this space
where you can be trapped
in a cycle of that, like a snacking cycle.
You never you don't want to eat too much,
but then we're eating a little bit
can keep us in this unsatisfied state.
Have you ever experienced
something like that?
Eating a meal does not have that.
Eating a meal is satisfying.
Eating a meal, you fill up the stomach.
Hormonal systems operate as they should.
They give us a satiety from it, and then
we keep that food free space clear.
After that, then
the body understands, okay, eating is done
and then we flow forward.
See, that is the limits
that we can really embrace.
You know,
if someone never did any type of fasting
like in some extended period, they say,
oh, we just go 12 hours overnight.
We had dinner at six
and then we ate breakfast at six,
and then we carry on,
but we just ate at meals.
You say to me,
this is like micro fasting that you could
bring in is like you just say
is getting rid of snacking.
What if that was the only
thing that ever someone did
as far as
a fasting space, little micro fasting,
cut out the snacks
and then we dial in every other
good point of health, right?
That the times that we are eating
the most nutritious food is coming in.
And then we're working
in thoughtful movement throughout the day.
We're doing the deep work in our mind
to cope
with the stress that is happening
in a way that helps us flow through it.
Keep literally
keep the parasympathetic flow going
so we're not spiking up
adrenaline and stress hormones.
We're not altering our pattern
of cortisol
into some chronic inflammatory state.
That happens with chronic stress,
because it seems to me like chronic stress
kind of is everywhere.
But are we bringing it into the body?
And I think this is the real thing.
So a breathing practice,
a meditation practice of some kind,
just some space to allow that stress,
you know, not to soak into the body,
however that works.
These are the things that really
matter, as far as I can see.
Putting all those things together
to me is a way of being in the world.
This is the way
I really like to think about it.
How are we being here, you know,
and what does that look like?
Is there a structure that we can create?
You know,
our box, not a box that is imposed on us
by anybody else, not some socially
conforming process
that doesn't feel true to who we are
or isn't working for us,
say our observations.
You know, my life, our life right here.
What are the things
that are really serving me in this space?
We've done some talking over
the last few days.
What different people say about fasting
online, different
channels, different things.
People saying, oh, fasting
is this and not this, and telling people.
Oh, it has to be this and not that.
If I just had to
say, doctor Z, here's your constraint
your limit.
Fasting can be only one thing
and it can't be anything else.
And you have to choose it right now.
I would pick 168 actually as the,
the thing because, you know,
we can go through the papers that people
are citing alternate daily fasting.
Absolutely. A more powerful practice.
I would agree with that.
But I don't agree with the way people
frame it.
Like, 0168 is dead now
or never do these other types of things
because alternate daily fasting
also is very intense, and I've interacted
with thousands of people
who are exploring the fasting process.
I'm at least talking to them about it,
offering it, seeing where it is.
You know,
some people will jump right into that,
you know, and if somebody can do it,
I'm certainly not opposed to it.
You know, to me, it's kind of like
the pinnacle process of simple fasting.
Simple fasting to me is like micro fasting
implements heading up towards 168,
a whole spectrum there to work.
If because even 168 is too much
for some people to jump right into,
so you can work your way up to that 168
pretty excessive as a practice.
Many people sleep in on the weekend,
have a brunch, have a dinner.
Never think about it.
You say, in our society
that can be normal.
And so something
that's normal, okay, you know,
pros and cons to that.
But see, that's the type of thing
someone does without thinking about it.
That's the type of mindset I really want
for people, as if something is normal.
It doesn't even feel like we're doing
something is like, well, you know,
hopefully
that is something that can become routine.
And so what I really want simple
fasting to be for people, something very,
very accessible, you know, that is
that is not barriers in any way.
Of course, there's the option
to increase that intensity, you know.
And so is what I love about fasting
very accessible shallow end of the pool.
Like, what if you just stay in a space
like this?
That is very,
taking something that can be intense,
approaching it in the most thoughtful
and gentle way.
That's where I would, you know, pick
if that was the constraint,
I would just guess and just my own space
that that
concept might
help the very most number of people.
But is it going to help?
Everybody is a multifactorial process.
A certain person
is able to dial in a certain amount
on fasting, a certain amount on exercise,
a certain amount on the types of food,
all of these things together.
You know, it's complex.
I think so many things online
try to sell people
the idea that, like,
I'll just do this one thing,
you know, like that one guy we looked at,
and by six weeks,
everything going to be great.
I don't want anything
sugar coated for people,
because trying to dial down the sugar
and also metaphorical sugar.
Right.
Turn down the hype,
find something real and grounded
inside the box.
Fasting in side the box
or out of it,
depending on how you look at it.
Fasting space.
It doesn't have to be much to me.
This is my fasting space.
Grabbing a coffee in the morning,
hanging out,
having a chat.
Doesn't
have to be anything more than that.
You can take this same type of concept
into the evening.
I tend to drink tea in the evening.
I tend to,
like camomile tea is where I go.
Yeah, I like this.
Thank you for sharing that.
I guess when you put your own guardrails
on a fasting practice,
it's easier than adhering
to someone else's rules.
I really do like that.
I really like this thinking,
because, you know, you know,
who likes to be told what to do
and who likes
to, have constraints put upon them.
I know myself,
someone tries to tell me what to do.
I kind of have an instant aversion.
I'm kind of like, oh, I think I might not
do that just to, you know,
not do what you are telling me.
You know what I mean?
And so, a book like
this is kind of challenging.
There's so many.
I bring more thoughts, you know, from it.
But they talk,
especially in a creative space.
Like one of the one of the stories
I'm remembering in
it is about how Bach would, like, compose
all this incredible music.
He just had these incredible constraints
he would put on himself
and one of his most famous things
I, you know, I forget which it is.
He he literally.
Used only notes for notes that
that was like in German is just his name.
It's back. It's like b a, c, h.
But in German it was like the notes.
And so however that works.
But he was like,
he's just going to use his name of notes
and then like write a whole like movement
out of these notes.
You know, it's like so you put some limits
and then out of the constraint
comes the creativity and things.
You know, one of the big, ideas,
as I'm thinking about the book, is like
without constraints, you default to
what is normal.
That's what it says.
And so all of a sudden, you know, there's
two types of constraints, a constraint
we put on ourselves
and a constraint that is forced upon us.
There's examples in here,
and we kind of get into that thinking
like obstacle is the way
you're going to get into that more.
I want to dive more into that book,
you know, about people
who are in a terrible accident,
or they get some sort of illness
and then they have some sort of disability
and some sort of extra barrier beyond,
and then they overcome it.
And then through this crazy thing,
they ultimately end up using
that experience
to further advantage themselves.
And so, you know, if a,
if something is totally forced on us,
you Really an interesting
space to sit in and think.
I guess, you know,
if something is forced upon you,
but you have some ability to change it.
Our, our,
I guess my at least knee jerk
reaction is to just try to get out of it.
You know,
it's like we do not like constraints
is why I put on our cover
photo embracing limits, right?
Because sometimes there really
can be power and we say we don't like it.
Who wants to feel limited?
Who wants to be constrained?
But can we see the value in it?
They were seeing so many artists,
so many inventors, so many creative people
ultimately come to see the value
that they voluntarily choose,
and often take that even to a
a more significant place
where they just look to, how can I do it?
How can I find more ways
to constrain myself
so that more creativity can flow?
Like, to me, that's fascinating.
And so this is
I think it really deep into our mindset.
Why do we think the way we do?
Why do we feel the way we do
about certain things
and thinking about limits and constraints?
See, the thing I love about this book
is really getting us to think
about changing our perspective.
I certainly feel that.
Don't limit me, bro.
You know, don't tell me what to do.
I got into some of this thinking
personally.
You know, when I was feeling
so bad with the Lyme disease,
I was like, whoa,
I don't really have a constraint here.
That's
actually when I started reading this book,
I was like,
oh, can we turn this into something good?
You know, how can we use a constraint
to our advantage?
I tried my best to do it.
I don't know, I was.
I've been reflecting on it. Did I do it?
I did a session somewhere in the middle
of that where I took, you know,
I took a pause where I disappeared
because I was got so sick.
And then I was back a bit,
but I was really struggling, like,
I just my, my brain,
I couldn't, you know, do this.
And so then I did that session creating
space for change, something like that.
And I took another pause again
just to like,
because I was thinking about that,
does something need to change?
Like we need to change?
And I was also just kind of giving myself
some space in a recovery.
And I was thinking of that though.
Can some good come from it?
Because I was thinking
here's a super constraint.
What if I only had two hours in a day
where I felt like I could really think,
like, what would be the most
positive way to spend that time?
And isn't that an analogy
for how it really is?
Because whether it's two hours or ten,
you know, whatever it is,
our, our bandwidth in a day is limited.
So that was just showing me
in a way, right?
A constraint even on our time in some way,
if it helps us to really see
the importance
of the decisions that we make, than
it is a constraint, that is,
that we are finding value from
even if we don't like it, you know?
Hopefully a constraint that I'm trying
to bring us toward today
fast and constraint, you know,
if you want to think about it that way,
a limit that we can embrace, I say
something fun,
hopefully something that is bringing
lightness and joy and positivity.
Can this constraint be like that?
You know, just as I'm saying it,
I'm thinking the word constraint.
The word limits, the word rules.
You know something?
We like to push back a lot,
something that we don't feel good about.
Can we see the other side of it
insofar as something like that can bring
lightness, joy, positivity, creativity,
especially like the creative side of it,
it's very clear going through,
you know, this reading.
Okay.
Yeah, I see it.
A constraint
really giving to give in to creativity.
You got to solve the problem.
They got a quote in there somewhere.
Miles Davis, great jazz musician.
I have to find it in there.
It was something about what he needed.
He was like, you know,
what I really need is a deadline.
You know, he's like.
He's like, if I don't have a deadline
until I get an album done
or do something, you know,
it doesn't, doesn't happen.
But all of a sudden,
like, you put a deadline
and then we're getting up to it.
It's like,
okay, now we're creating the space.
Like it's got to happen.
We got to solve the problems.
I don't think we think of as I'm
just reflecting on society.
I don't think we think of a weight
loss space, a health space very often.
Maybe. Maybe it's just me.
But I don't think we see it
as a creative space.
But I really think it is a creative space.
I at least think it is
the fun way to approach it,
hopefully to say like,
oh, how do we work in this space?
My life, my conditions right here.
This is a constraint already.
You know, we say a lot.
You know our I do not everybody the
the deck is not dealt evenly.
Some people are dealt
into difficult situations and
These are the constraints.
That is our life.
You know, it's like we have to play
the hand that we are dealt here.
And so within that,
can that constraint our life,
our experience that we're having,
you know, isn't this part of what happens?
We just end up comparing ourselves
to somebody else.
So much of culture says, oh,
everybody is the same.
Everybody's
got to do the same sort of thing.
Always start and we start to look at it,
you know, isn't your life
much different than other people's
and isn't
what is the quote
comparison is the thief of joy, right?
We are trying to find
a joyful path forward in health.
Certainly not comparing ourselves
to others is a good step on that process,
recognizing constraints
that we have operating within it.
You know already,
even before we add anything else to it.
I like these thoughts.
I'm going to think more about it.
Let me know, let me know.
Let me know what you think about it.
I hope these thoughts are helpful.
I will be doing more thinking about it.
And,
Wow, just looking at the time,
the week already going by Wednesday
by and I hope this week is treating you
well.
I will look forward to
being back with you again tomorrow.
Be well everybody.