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We are the Maternal Health Learning and Innovation Center, a network of maternal health equity experts and organizations working to make real change for women and birthing people in the U.S.
Our podcast is a series of episodes connecting around culture, lifting voices and stories, exploring innovations in maternal care and discussing ways we can center equity in the way we approach our health and wellness.
Learn more about us, explore our resource center and find support for all maternal health professionals at MaternalHealthLearning.org.
For more podcast information and content, visit MaternalHealthPodcast.org.
Sarah - 00:00:03:
Welcome to the Maternal Health Innovation Podcast, Season 3. I'm your host, Sarah Verbiest, Executive Director at the UNC Collaborative for Maternal and Infant Health and Co-Director of the Maternal Health Learning and Innovation Center, which is the organization that supports this podcast. Episodes are released weekly, so be sure you are subscribed. Thank you. On this podcast, we listen to maternal health innovators about ways that we can implement change to improve maternal health in the United States. In today's episode, I'm talking with Mallory Cyr Sear, Program Manager of Children and Youth with Special Health Care Needs at the Association for Maternal and Child Health Programs. Today we'll be talking about disability and maternal health, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation. Thanks so much for joining me, Mallory Cyr.
Mallory - 00:00:58:
Thanks for having me, Sarah. I'm so excited to be here.
Sarah - 00:01:01:
So can you start by defining what we mean by disability in the context of maternal health, considering it as a broad umbrella term that avoids over-defining individuals?
Mallory - 00:01:14:
Sure. So I don't exactly have like the Webster definition of disability, but in this context, we're talking about really, you know, all encompassing across chronic illness, physical disability, sensory disability, anybody that identifies as having a disability. And one thing that I've observed in the last couple of years within maternal child health is that we don't really talk about disability. We use terms like children with special healthcare needs, or we talk about chronic illness and medical complexity, sort of in a silo. And so I think only now are we starting to really see that intersectionality and use terms like disability and disabled and really think about how our systems translate for our kids who grow up with what we identify as special healthcare needs under the Maternal Child Health Bureau definition. But ultimately, when they grow into adults, it's a system for adults with disabilities. Those terms don't really translate. So within this discussion, using disability as an all-encompassing term for all of those populations.
Sarah - 00:02:29:
Well, and just to kind of continue along with thinking about definitions, can you talk a little bit about the significance of reclaiming the word disability?
Mallory - 00:02:40:
Yeah, my own experience with identifying as having a disability was really interesting. And it's not because I am ashamed or ever, you know, wasn't proud of who I was. But as I mentioned, you know, the work we do is so siloed that when I was growing up, I existed in sort of this chronic illness landscape. And that was my identity. And as I got older and started working in the maternal child health and advocacy space, I connected with some really amazing disability community leaders who really talked a lot about, you know, the idea of disability pride. And so there has, there has been a movement and a shift to reclaim the idea of being disabled. And when you think about, you know, having a disability, we'll talk a little bit more about like the different models of disability, but we live in sort of this ableist society that makes being disabled the problem, when really it's our infrastructure and our systems and not us as people. And so within MCH, you know, we're starting to see this shift to really finally name and talk about the ableism in our system and the movement towards disability justice. So I think this is a really exciting conversation to have because I've worked in MCH for 15 years, and only now are we really starting to see that connection and MCH wanting to do disability justice work, and it's an exciting time.
Sarah - 00:04:23:
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, earlier you talked about, and I agree with you, I think traditionally maternal and child health is focused more on children and youth with special health care needs. And we really haven't had this conversation in this space around maternal health. Why do you think it's exciting and important that we're talking about that in this larger context of maternal health and maternal mortality morbidity?
Mallory - 00:04:45:
Yeah, it's a really important conversation. And I think, especially right now for our country, reproductive justice is huge. It's a big discussion. And people with disabilities are often left out of those conversations. And I think as a society, we tend to desexualize and infantilize people with disabilities, and especially within healthcare. We're not given the resources or even really thought of being people that can or should reproduce. And so it's just, it's not a conversation that happens, but within MCH, you know, all of the topics that we talk about impact people with disabilities. People with disabilities want to have children or they don't want to have children, but they navigate healthcare and their bodies and their family dynamics. And it's been sort of an interesting space to be in because I have brought up the concept of access to healthcare for people with disabilities, saying this is so relevant and, A lot of times when you're in these MCH spaces and you're not talking about you know, specific mothers or children, people say, well, this isn't our space or this isn't our priority. But people with disabilities are all throughout MCH. And it is our space. And these are our people. And I find it really interesting because for me, I am a married woman. Both my husband and I have disabilities. We do not have children and that was our choice. But I have had a lot of conversations about the way that we define family also. And somebody said to me on a call one time, because I was saying, you know, there are people in this work who are not youth and they're not a parent, but they are still navigating systems and having this lived experience that we want a place at the table. And, And how do we fit in? And that person said to me, oh, well, you know, right, right. And they don't see themselves as a family. And I said, actually, you don't see us as a family. And I think that's just so important to think about the perceptions of our society and our system of deciding who can and should reproduce and who is a family. I think that's ever evolving. And it's so important to remember that, you know, it's really about choice and being able to have those conversations and set aside our own systemic biases.
Sarah - 00:07:48:
One more thing kind of as we're like thinking about definitions, you know, I think kind of, And how one defines disability, I think there's something, sometimes what goes into my head when I think of the word is someone who might be in a wheelchair or someone who might be blind. But we know that disability is like, can be both seen and unseen. And so I'm just curious, is there help us understand like that this is a really large group of people that might have different abilities and ways that they are in the world that may or may not be served very well in our current maternal health ecosystem.
Mallory - 00:08:34:
Yeah. And, you know, I think the thing about healthcare is that regardless of whether you identify as having a disability, there's no one size fits all. It's about caring for a person and getting to know that person and understanding their needs, their desires. Within MCH, you know, we're finally starting to talk about how do we measure quality of life? And the only way to know that is to talk to people, you know, for healthcare providers to understand everybody does navigate the world differently, whether you have a disability or not. And so for one person, quality of life and thriving may mean that they are able to do something independently in their home and that to them is thriving. It may mean you know, minimizing therapy appointments or, you know, changing a treatment plan. And for other people, it may mean being able to get up every day, go to work, have a family, cook dinner, travel the world, you know? And so it's really about stepping back from the preconceived notions that our healthcare system may have about a person because of their needs or disability. Yeah. I mean, disability is so broad and to say that it's actually a minority, you know, thinking about every single person is going to experience disability at some point in their life. Whether it's sooner or when you are aging, it's literally a part of the human experience. And I think even within that, we need to move away from that stigma of that, this isn't about me, this doesn't matter. When we create a system that works for people with disabilities, we create a system that works for everybody. And just that idea of universal design and moving away from that accessibility and inclusivity is only needed if people ask for it. We all need it.
Sarah - 00:10:44:
That's so beautifully said. So as we think about the healthcare system. What are some thoughts that you have about how we can move towards dismantling ableism in that system?
Mallory - 00:10:58:
Yeah, it's a big question. What's, Scary, I think, and also exciting is that we're starting to call this out. We're starting to see... Articles in literature naming that there's ableism in healthcare and what it really comes down to is that providers do not feel equipped to care for people with disabilities. And I want to preface this whole conversation by saying, like, when we talk about ableism, It's like any other ism. Nobody does it intentionally. Nobody wakes up one day and says, I'm going to be ableist today. It is inherently ingrained in our culture. It is the way that our society is built. It is the way that our systems are built. And we do not adequately train providers to care for people with disabilities or to have these difficult conversations about choices or reproductive options. And especially for individuals with rare diseases or who may not have a precedent for how this is typically done. Our healthcare system relies heavily on, you know, sort of policies and protocols and like, if A then B. And for a lot of people with disabilities, it may not be if A then B, it may be if A, we need to identify what B is because it's not in your textbook. And I have that lived experience and I want to partner and have a conversation with you about my options. And I also want you to listen and to believe me if I say that what you're proposing is not going to be the solution for me. And so I think in terms of, you know, how we can improve our systems. I think one of the biggest pieces is education. Providers are just not equipped and trained. We don't talk about disability in medical education programs. We don't talk about disability in public health or social work programs. And we're starting to see that shift. But I feel like it's sort of a two steps forward, three steps back of You know, we did this, you know, training or this program exists. But we're also seeing these health disparities just illuminated through COVID and the burden and the stress on the healthcare system, the public health system. Our country is in crisis as a whole. And so, you know, it's becoming more of an assembly line and people who need that more individualized attention, that providers may not be able to bill for or are worried about the liability piece of it. It's just becoming harder and harder to get that individualized care.
Sarah - 00:14:02:
I see that. I feel, you know, as an educator here at the university, I feel lucky because I've had a chance to teach students that had some visual impairments and also hearing challenges. And I feel lucky because there's a whole office here that will guide me and help me to know how to prepare to provide equitable education and equitable learning environments. And, but it definitely takes coaching and information to know how to do it, right? So I think you're so right. I have never had an intention of not, you know, having all my students have the same access. And then they're just things I don't know or don't see. So I really appreciate that approach. And then really, how do we strengthen that muscle? Of thinking about being mindful of the things that we can do that actually make things more accessible for all of the folks in the system. It's really important. Kind of thinking a little bit, you know, about the difference between the medical and social models of disability care and support, particularly in the context of maternal health. What are some things, what are some ways that you see some differences between those two approaches? Sure.
Mallory - 00:15:26:
Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. You know, traditionally, we see a lot of the medical model of disability within healthcare. And also, I would say, public health sometimes, although I think we're moving in a different direction. And basically, what this means is that the medical model of disability says, we need to fix the disability. If you just didn't have a disability, then the problem is fixed, because you can climb stairs. And you know, I give these physical examples, because they're just sort of easier to visualize. And I like to say like, with disabilities people don't want wheelchairs that can go up and down stairs. We literally just want a ramp. And an elevator, you know? And so everybody benefits from a ramp and an elevator and it's probably a better investment in the infrastructure than the resources that would go into creating a wheelchair that can climb stairs. And so the social model of disability looks at the environment and the systemic change and really the universal design approach of saying, if we created an accessible, Accessible, and Inclusive World and system, what's the disability? And so that's really the difference between the two. And, you know, we also see that within our systems work of, you know, how often do we see resources created? Toolkits and checklists and things that really put the burden, I will say, on the individual. And so if you are having a negative experience with healthcare, then you don't understand how to navigate the system. And if we reframe that to the social model, it's how do we dismantle the ableism that exists within healthcare? And not to say it's up to a single provider to do better. It is licensing billing, it's the physical environment, accessing transportation to go to an appointment, it's being able to make an appointment, it's getting a person on the phone. All of these are barriers that make it more difficult for an individual to do their part. But in the medical model, it's saying like, well, you know, if the system is inaccessible to you, then you need to do better. And we still see a lot of that within public health.
Sarah - 00:17:57:
Thank you for that distinction. That definitely has a lot of wheels in my head spinning. And I'm wondering, what are some of the actionable items that individuals and healthcare providers could implement to be more inclusive and supportive of people with disabilities, again, particularly in maternal health?
Mallory - 00:18:20:
Yeah, I think it's, you know, the first step is just being willing to learn, being willing to admit what you don't know. And some of the best providers that I've had as a woman living with a rare disease who has accessed, you know, women's health care and reproductive health care have been the people that have said about my rare disease. I don't know. I don't know anything about this, but you are the expert and I'm willing to learn together. And sometimes that's all it takes to make me go, okay, we're partners in this equation. I've also had providers that have said to me, I'm the doctor, that's why. And that's a really great way to like not be have a positive dynamic. And I think it's really just that, that partnership and, and being willing to explore options. If talking about, you know, reproductive justice and options for people with disabilities, we often do, we don't have those conversations. I only recently, I feel like as a woman who is married and has been with my significant other for 12 years, only recently did I have like a, a doctor even ask if we were considering like having children and it was because I was asking about something else. And she was thought I was asking in context. And it actually took me back a little bit because I realized how infrequently I had been talked to as a birthing person. And it wasn't something that I wanted, but I appreciated her, like having the conversation. And so I think, Minimizing our own assumptions that just because you can't envision what it would look like for somebody to reproduce or you have, you know, deeply rooted biases about who should and shouldn't reproduce, which we see as a society, it's about reproducing. Offering choice and dignity of risk. And that's, you know, something big, I think, with individuals with disabilities is just because you wouldn't make a choice based on what you have seen in textbooks or what you think is appropriate the way society should be or people should be, it doesn't mean that there aren't options. And, you know, in, in the really extreme cases, we still are seeing and hearing, um, stories of people with disabilities, um, being forcibly sterilized. There was actually just an article, um, about in the UK it's illegal. Um, but it still happens and I know. Disabled women who, while they were under to have their babies via C-section, the medical providers were talking about. Sterilizing them while they were on the table. And so while we like to think that those things don't happen, they definitely do. And so it's important to lift up those narratives because there are so many other people who have had traumatic experiences in the reproductive health landscape that we don't even hear about. And another piece of that is besides the reproduction angle, it's also about biological health, you know, whether you want to have children or not, making sure that you understand. You know, the signs of your body and that you're getting regular preventative healthcare. And if you have traumatic experiences accessing those services and that healthcare system, you could miss some, some really Scary things. Um, so, um, I think again, you know, from a disability lens, when we access healthcare, it's not always because of our disability. Like sometimes we need those like quote unquote, like typical healthcare needs. We need to access, you know, women's health services. Or if I go to the doctor for an ear infection, you know, it's probably not about my rare disease. I just have an ear infection. So while you want to be like, aware and, you know, we're still whole people and not every healthcare event is related to our, our healthcare need or our disability. We really just need to be treated like a whole person.
Sarah - 00:23:09:
Right. Absolutely. You know, I have a couple of thoughts. I mean, I think for someone with disabilities who is pregnant, you know, you also want to be just treated as a pregnant person. Right. And also all of the joyful things and exciting things that can be part of that care. Right. Are also important. Gifts that everyone wants to enjoy instead of just the high risk. Right. And, you know, what you said about people not even getting to have that conversation about understanding what the journey might look like if they wanted to become parents is so important. You know, we've listened to a lot of different folks with chronic conditions who have said that they, no one talks to them about it. They're not seen as people that might want to become pregnant or it's just not a conversation had. And so they suffer a lot of anxiety, depression, and a lot of trauma, like you said, because they're trying to manage all of this themselves. And when we think about intersectionality for folks of color with disabilities, I know we've heard that that can just feel like you don't want not only me to have any babies, but you don't want any babies that are going to look like me to be born too. So, yeah. The layers of hurt that can happen without really good care are pretty deep.
Mallory - 00:24:29:
Yeah, it's a, I mean, it's, it's a really complex topic. You know, I know we talked a little bit about, you know, the idea of genetics and having a rare genetic disorder, you know, what the options are, and the way that providers, you know, perceive those decisions. You know, I have a sister who also has a rare genetic disorder, and our specialty provider was very vocal about how he didn't think that she should be born. And, you know, those aren't, those aren't the decisions for other people to make. We need to provide resources and educational information for folks to be able to make those decisions. And you know, to get back to the transition piece, this has to start like, younger, you know, understanding our bodies. And when you are accessing healthcare primarily for your, you know, complex medical need or your disability, again, you know, this may or may not be something that's brought up. And when you think about certain disabilities, it's important to make that part of the discussion. For example, when I turned 18, I started to see an endocrinologist and he was a male endocrinologist. And he put me on, when I went away to college for my hormonal development, he put me on an oral birth control. Well, I have malabsorption. As part of my condition. And so, you know, luckily I wasn't relying on it for birth control at that time. But when I finally went to an OBGYN, the first thing they saw was like, wait a minute, you have malabsorption and you're on oral birth control. And I was like, Huh. Didn't even think to say anything, you know, cause I, he was the doctor. And so, but they provided me with other options and I was able to use the patch, which, you know, worked for me for a really long time. And, you know, but, but once they saw my unique needs, and then also, if you think about, you know, the amount of disabilities that come with a latex allergy, what are traditional condoms made of? Yeah. So if people go away to school or college or are young people who are sexually active, that's what's available. And so if they don't know that that's something they have to seek out in order to practice safe sex, And so these are like small things that healthcare providers can like be aware of as people with disabilities are growing up, exploring relationships, looking at their reproductive options. Those are just a couple examples of like. You know, in those specific cases, there were other options. But because we are, you know, fitting the square peg of a person into the, you know, here's what works for everybody else, you know, those options aren't explored.
Sarah - 00:27:37:
I mean, I think overall we could do better in having these conversations with young folk and just even thinking to ask people about their intentions. And, you know, what I'm hearing you say, though, that is that when we get in the context of some folks with disabilities, like this become critically important. Like this can't be, you know, it's not an excuse anywhere, but a really key strategy and thought for maternal health is that really providing exquisite person-centered reproductive wellness care and support and really thinking, like you said, about the whole person when one is prescribing medication too. Because we've heard a lot of stories about medicines that people that they get put on for their conditions that actually may make it so they might not be able to become pregnant when that's something that they really are wanting to do. And that conversation wasn't had. Or, you know, where there could be something that could be not good if someone became pregnant. Right. So it's important that folks get it right in that space. Yeah.
Mallory - 00:28:45:
And to honor, you know, the choice and the autonomy. You know, I recently read an article, you know, to your point about a woman who was in a, in the hospital and she was denied her medication that she took regularly for her disability because they knew that potentially it could be harmful if she got pregnant. And she was aware of that risk and knew that that wasn't, you know, what she wanted, but instead of like having that conversation, they just withheld her medication. And so it's such, it's such a slippery slope and, you know, the, in, you just can't make assumptions about what an individual wants. You have to. You know, be willing to have the discussion and trust people. You know, as a child-free woman, you know, we hear all kinds of things about, you know, folks wanting to, you know, not have the anatomy to have a baby if you don't want to have a baby and what women have to fight for. To have that done because society is like, you might, you might change your mind, you know? So throughout the spectrum of maternal health, we have, I think, a lot of work to do because we just have this traditional idea of what MCH is and has been. And it's, it's really about, you know, family health, whatever that looks like, and supporting, you know, women and families to make the decisions and that they want to make and to be healthy regardless of, you know, if they want to have children, if they don't want to have children, but making sure that they feel safe accessing healthcare, because it's, it's really Scary. And I, you know, don't want to speak negatively about any healthcare providers because I wouldn't want to be on that side of it either. Um, but as somebody who is medically complex and has had really terrifying healthcare experiences lately, um, we have to do better. We have to like, just make the system see people as people and allow providers to, to, be person-centered and patient-centered because the infrastructure that they're operating in often doesn't even allow that anymore. We have a lot of work to do and our role within MCH, you know, as we're talking systems change, what are those small things we can do? You know, educate, connect with providers, create, you know, educational materials and resources. We're seeing more disability studies in graduate programs. I actually, in the last couple of years, created a disability equity within the public health curriculum for Boston University School of Public Health that talked about, you know, disability history and specifically through an MCH lens, but also just from a healthcare perspective. And I think the biggest thing, as we talked about universal design, is caring for with disabilities people is not something that health care can opt out of. I think we make it something where folks say, and even within public health and MCH, we say, I don't need to make this accessible because that's not my audience. Or I don't want to care for people with disabilities because I don't feel confident. I don't have enough time. It's not profitable. And- At the end of the day, you know, it's a part of the human experience and you don't get to opt out of being exposed to people with disabilities. And that's just the reality.
Sarah - 00:32:40:
A theme that is kind of emerging through our conversation, I think, is about, like, believe her, hear her, which is, you know, makes me think of the CDC campaign. But it's a belief, Believe that she knows her body, listen to what she has to say, it seems like that's a universal design that would be wonderful no matter if someone has a disability that's visual or something that unfolds over the years. Course of an interchange, right, in terms of how a person functions in the world. So I think really centering that person and listening to them seems to be like a really important thing to underscore here, for sure. And, you know, something else that's been in my mind. So our team does a lot of creating materials to help educate patients about And we've been trying to think about, well, even representation in the images that we use seems to be really important. And we think a lot about how to get ready to be postpartum. And I feel like there can be some really unique needs that folks might have also after they have a baby or during labor and delivery and moving forward. And so for me, I think it's just a challenge for us to think about in each of our topical areas of expertise. How do we really broaden our thinking and how do we listen to folks that may have different experiences about. Kind of bringing in their perspectives into that kind of work. How can providers approach these conversations better, whether they're about family or genetic planning, about future desires for family or not? Do you have any tips about how people could approach that conversation better?
Mallory - 00:34:30:
I think that same way you would have them with any of your patients. You know, I think it's a developmental milestone. You know, I think as you, you know, it's complicated because if we're talking about transition you can't assume that once people are of age, they're going to start going to an OBGYN. Because why would they if they don't think they need to? And so I think even that education piece of, you know, if you're a teenager and you're, you know, exploring relationships, what are the, you know, I remember doctors being like, I have a boyfriend. However, it's appropriate to ask it now. But we have those screening questions, you know? And so if you're asking about like, Do you feel safe at home? Or are you in a relationship? Are you, do you use protection? Like, there are certain questions to ask and then to address, obviously if someone's 18, they may or may not know whether they want children or they may, but then emphasizing that, Regardless of what you may want to do, you know, these are preventative things for your body that either I, if I'm a family provider who works across the life course, or when you get to be a certain age that you may need to talk to another doctor about to make sure that your body stays healthy. Okay. We have to sort of separate the idea of like having children from, we also have these reproductive health organs that we need to make sure are healthy, are cancer-free. And that's a really important thing. I, I know, you know, a lot of adults and young adults who, you know, probably don't do all the preventative things because they just, they don't like healthcare. And, You know, they're like, it's, it's fine. I, you know, I know. And. It's not fun. Like, nobody likes that kind of stuff. It's like going to the dentist, though, you know? So... Well, one other thing that I personally think, this is just my little tangent. I don't understand why women's health and reproductive health is such a, like a yucky medical environment. Like, have you ever been to a spa? Yeah. I have on. Come on. You know, and again, there's much privilege in that comparison, I recognize. But if we just made the physical environment, you know, you put on a paper robe, you get on the bed that is not accessible and not safe because you're climbing up in a gown that doesn't fit you and is ripping everywhere. Right. What if you walked in and they gave you a cup of tea and a lavender eye mask? And you know, who knows, you know? And then you walked, you had some slippers. And I just think it's this medical, you know, it's already a traumatizing experience even on a good day. And I think there are so many models that we would like look at to make it feel more welcoming. And, you know, I think probably there are birthing suites that are much more luxurious. But what about when we're caring for our bodies and we're not at that part of life yet? And I feel that way about all healthcare. I think hospitals should partner with Marriott's and, you know, the menu says room service. And I'm like, that ain't the kind of room service I'm talking about. But I just think we could do better in the way that we deliver and experience healthcare as a whole. I think we can do so much better.
Sarah - 00:38:27:
Yes. I like that kind of universal design, right? Because it also gets at some of that anxiety that happens and can, and I think also designing spaces for people that might have autism or might have other sensory issues that can be really hard to go into those places. And, you know, but I just love this conversation about like, how do we just make those places of healing and listening and helping people live into the fullness of their bodies, whatever and however they may work, feels to me to also be a really beautiful vision. Well, this has been such a great conversation. And I love kind of getting to the aspiration of what this could be. Because we know where we are is really not at all a place where we can stay. And I will say that I just think having this conversation is, feels really new as long as I've been in this field. And as we think about equity in maternal health, I think starting to really have this conversation is a good starting point, but it's not the place to finish. So I guess kind of thinking as we kind of, look to wrap up this first, but hopefully not last conversation. Just wondering, like, do you have any other parting, like, thoughts about vision forward or, you know, what, does inclusive maternity or maternal health look and feel like to you and folks with disabilities?
Mallory - 00:40:01:
Yeah. I mean, once again, you know, there's no one size fits all. And I feel really bold as a child free woman having this conversation. But, you know, again, I'm in the MCH space. And, you know, I think exploring this space. Is it, it is new, you know? And so I think what, what I would like to see is, is ways that we can use our, our platform and our privilege in MCH to lift up the stories and experiences of those who have not had a platform. And again, you know, thinking about, about my privilege in, in this space, getting people of, of other communities, women of color, women who have had birthing experiences, women who have accessed healthcare in different ways, who have had, you know, different experiences, we need to, you know, broaden the, the voices that are in this conversation. And Um, I'm, I'm really grateful to be able to, you know, speak on this topic. And I always say, no matter what I'm speaking about, like, this is my experience. This is like, what's in my brain and what I've seen. And witnessed and heard, I do have a lot of connections in the disability community. I connect a lot on social media and I hear and read, and I try to use my platform to share the experiences of others, but I will never be the voice of other communities that do not share my experience. So my advice would be, let's think about who else we can get at the table and to be able to share these stories and, and share what, what they think would, um, would help their experiences.
Sarah - 00:41:54:
I love that. And, you know, listening is free, y'all. Well, not free, free, but, you know, it's something we can all do. It's also making me think as those folks out there are really working to do more listening and to bring patient voice into circles and to really pay attention to patient experience. Like as we're doing that, we need to make sure we also keep our disability rights hats on. And that as we're looking about what does inclusion looks like in terms of the folks that we're listening to, that we really, really can't forget folks with disabilities, that their voices need to be central in the conversation.
Mallory - 00:42:32:
And one thing I'll add that I sort of just thought of that we can tack on in the action items. But thinking about access and inclusion, really thinking outside the box. As we were talking, I was envisioning traditional healthcare models of you go and you sit in an office and you do the thing. And for a lot of people, that's the biggest barrier. And during COVID, we were really fortunate to find a model of an urgent care provider that came to your house. And, you know, especially in the maternal and birthing worlds, you know, you see things like home births. And, you know, during COVID, telehealth became really popular. And so from a policy perspective, looking at How can we sustain things like telehealth? How can we make doulas, you know, a billable service? So there's all kinds of things that are evolving beyond the traditional healthcare field. And for people with disabilities, you know, those solutions are really what are giving some people access that they may not have had before. So I also encourage us as we're doing systems work and hearing these stories, thinking about, you know, what are these out of the box solutions that may not be, you know, getting somebody to a hospital facility, so to speak.
Sarah - 00:44:03:
Wow. Lots to think about. Thank you so much Mallory for taking the time to join us today and to share your experiences. We appreciate everyone for listening and joining us in this conversation, which again, I hope that this is just a kickstart to it. And I, before we sign off, I know that you have a lot going on Mallory in this space. So would you be willing to share how folks can connect with you to learn more or to kind of connect with the work that you're doing?
Mallory - 00:44:37:
Yeah, definitely. We are definitely trying to lean more into the disability justice space within MCH. And I wear many hats in my professional life. So I'm happy to give you my email, which is mcyr@amchp.org. You can also visit my website, which is Mallory Cyr, M-A-L-L-O-R-Y-C-Y-R.com and see how you can reach me. So I'm very honored to be the kickoff for this conversation. And I look forward to the work that we will continue to do together and how this conversation will grow.
Sarah - 00:45:21:
Well, for more podcasts, videos, blogs, and maternal health content, visit the Maternal Health Learning and Innovation Center website at maternalhealthlearning.org. We want to hear from you. Tell us what you want to hear more of, review our podcast, and share with like-minded innovators. We've got some great episodes recording now, so be sure you're subscribed. And we also have great episodes archived, so keep listening. Please tag us in your posts using hashtag #MaternalHealthInnovation. I'm Sarah Verbiest. I've had a wonderful conversation with Mallory Cyr. We'll talk with you again soon on the Maternal Health Innovation Podcast. Thank you.
Intro/Outro - 00:46:09:
This project is supported by the Health Resources and Service Administration, HRSA, of the U.S.
Department of Health and Human Services, HHS, under grant number CMC, State Maternal Health Innovation Support and Implementation Program Cooperative Agreement. This information or content and conclusions are those of the author and should not be construed as the official position or policy, nor should any endorsements be inferred by HRSA, HHS, or the U.S. Government.