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Discussion, analysis, and exotic opinions surrounding fandoms like Twilight, Star Wars, Harry Potter, the MCU, and far too many animes.
[00:00] Vinelle: Hello and welcome to the newest episode of Rank Heresy. Today is another Harry Potter episode as we decide to look into the murder of Hepster by Smith.
[00:11] The Carnivorous Muffin: Really? On a murder mystery kick here.
[00:13] Vinelle: Yeah. And unlike the last one, we're here going to argue that the perpetrator actually wasn't a perpetrator. Dumbledore killed Flamel, but Tom Riddle, oh, he never did anything wrong. Not a thing.
[00:24] The Carnivorous Muffin: I will foil a bit in that it's possible he did this one, the Dumbledore and Flamel one. I'm really hard pressed now to see Dumbledore, not having done it, want to have an out for him. It's pretty airtight, this one. Tom could have done it.
[00:42] Vinelle: I don't know. I'm not so sure, considering Ebzaba, in the conversation with Tom mentions that she's got heirs that are interested.
[00:50] The Carnivorous Muffin: I agree. It's looking unlikely.
[00:53] Vinelle: It's not impossible.
[00:54] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's not impossible. It's kind of ridiculous. And there are other more likely candidates. But it could have happened.
[01:02] Vinelle: Do you want to start with what you know from Canon.
[01:06] The Carnivorous Muffin: Vanelle's the resident Agatha Christie expert? I just read the books.
[01:11] Vinelle: It would just in every Agatha Christie, he would not be the murderer.
[01:15] The Carnivorous Muffin: He would not be the murderer. That's true. Would he even last, like, the first round of questioning?
[01:24] Vinelle: No.
[01:25] The Carnivorous Muffin: I don't even know. I think he'd be like, he's the one Dumbledore told us did it. But I think we'd figure out pretty.
[01:31] Vinelle: Fast he's the favorite suspect. But then the way these things tend to go, he either gets murdered himself because he found out something he wasn't supposed to. Being intelligent is often not a good thing in Agatha Christie or gets married to a wonderful girl who always knew that it wasn't him.
[01:47] The Carnivorous Muffin: Or in this case, he runs off to that.
[01:53] Vinelle: If you also get Agatha Christie, then he would be running off to Albania with a girl.
[01:57] The Carnivorous Muffin: Oh, yeah.
[01:58] Vinelle: True.
[01:58] The Carnivorous Muffin: All right, so to recap from Canon, this is from half Blood Prince and the context of this is throughout the novel. Dumbledore has had a series of lessons to Harry, giving him background on Tom Riddle and Per Dumbledore. This is to prepare him for the Horcrux hunt. TherE's a lot of theories, listen to previous episodes. Dumbledore is very clearly grooming him for suicide. But the important thing is we're getting a backdrop of Tom and he gives us a series of memories that were both gathered under suspicious circumstances. Dumbledore fully admits that a lot of them were taken from people or creatures who had suffered memory charms. And they're presented by Dumbledore, usually for a specific purpose that Harry does not pick up on. So this one is not the first, but not the last. It shows Tom Riddle as a young man having graduated Hogwarts rather than pursue a career in the ministry as Slughorn had always suspected he would. He becomes a salesman and clerk in Borden and burks which is an antiques shop on the round side of the tracks in Nocturn Alley. So, what happens is the memory is from a household named Hokey who witnesses Tom Riddle arriving. And he meets with a woman called Hespa Smith who has an immense fortune as well as a lot of collectibles. Tom Riddle is actually quite beleaguered there. And while he offers her flowers and acts charming he gets to the point very quickly and pretty much says, for the love of God, sell me your goblin armor. My boss is getting on my back. We know you have it. Please sell it to us. Hespaba refuses, but she wants to impress him and keep him around because he's very handsome and shows him both the hufflecup cup and the Slytherin locket. And she notes, and this is important, that her descendants are very interested in her collection. And if they knew that she had these particular items, heads were going to roll.
[04:01] Vinelle: Oh, not quite. I think they did know she had them. But heads were going to roll if they knew she was showing them to a young man like Tom.
[04:10] The Carnivorous Muffin: That was it, yeah. So that is the memory. That is what we see. What happens then is Dumbledore narrates that after the fact Hespaba had died shortly later due to the sugar being mixed with. Was it arsenic or.
[04:25] Vinelle: It doesn't say. Just poison.
[04:27] The Carnivorous Muffin: Just poison, anyway. And it was blamed, as typical in the Harry Potter universe, on the poor house elf who supposedly mixed stuffed yeast ingredients in the kitchen. And Dumbledore suspects that it was Tom Riddle as the Hufflepuff cuff as well as the Slytherin locket were found to be missing after this event and the murder had occurred. And Tom Riddle had fled to Albania and Morgan knew nothing about it and was not going to say anything. So the conclusion is that Tom killed her. And we do find out later that Tom did get into his possession one way or another, the Slytherin Locket and the Hufflepuff cup. So likely via some incident, but we will get into that. So with that, you want to get into the motive here for Tom?
[05:15] Vinelle: I can get into the method, yeah, the method. Yeah. So someone switched out her sugar with poison. And like what the ministry believed, which was that the house elf had mixed it up. And for the record, that part was never disproven. But it's very unlikely that a house elf is going to somehow just grab the wrong jar and. Oh, no, it's the lethal poison.
[05:35] The Carnivorous Muffin: I will caveat. This is the wizarding world. I fully believe Molly Weasley has the jar of arsenic right next to the jar of sugar.
[05:45] Vinelle: Yes. They're not a very pragmatic lot, so we're actually not going to rule out that Hokie did make a mistake. But if she didn't, if it was murder, then someone must have switched out the sugar with poison, and this could have happened anytime, because all you got to do is pour out some sugar and you replace the poison, and then you can pour sugar over it. Now, you have moved the time of death because it can be weeks afterwards, but people will presume that the poisonous done it recently, given the method here, that Tom was there only two days before she died, arguably makes him for a very poor suspect. The man is supposed to be, you.
[06:24] The Carnivorous Muffin: Know, adding on to that, given the time frame, he would want to kill her quickly, especially as he fled the country after this poison. Again, hokey might, A, have noticed, or B, it could have taken a while to get to that, and then it was also two days later. Means it wasn't immediately replaced. It wasn't day of. He was there and it was replaced.
[06:48] Vinelle: Yes, well, that or he buried it someplace beneath and Hebseba simply ate her way through it ridiculously quickly.
[06:54] The Carnivorous Muffin: That's also entirely possible. But point being, it's a very strange method of murder, considering the time frame of things that happened to him. He could have faked a heart attack for her, he could have poisoned her by some other means. He could have had her pretend to asphyxiate and it was actually the result of a spell or some enchantment, or she has an accident down the stairs and she lives alone. In that case, nobody even suspects the house elf.
[07:22] Vinelle: Yes, and the bottom line, which I will get into, which is that if he wanted her killed quickly or if he wants to kill her, it's to prevent her from finding out that he stole it. There are a few issues with that. So, first off, there are several reasons why we think he wouldn't want to kill Hepsaba. And if he did, then he wouldn't have done it this way. To take it in bullet points. Let us say that he steals from Hepsaba and she doesn't die sometime later, she discovers the theft and let's say that she suspects Tom. Christine is. What's she going to do about it? She could tell people and yeah, they would believe her, because Tom is the by all means smuggle born clerk working at Borgnend books, going around flirting with people's grandmothers. But the reason why thieves prey on all the women is because they often are too embarrassed or humiliated to tell anybody. Like, you were seduced by a handsome young man and he took advantage of you. Are you really going to advertise that? Tell everybody. Let your relatives know. Hebsebai is very clearly a lonely woman. She would have been absolutely devastated by this. That is the kind of thing that somebody like Tom Riddle is going to be capitalizing on. And besides, she might not have wanted to jeopardize her relationship with Tom in case he discovers the theft. She might want to justify it to herself. Maybe one of her nephews really did take it. She would have no concrete evidence that he had done it. Hebsaba discovering the theft isn't necessarily a problem for Tom.
[08:46] The Carnivorous Muffin: Adding on to that a bit, there comes the issue with inheritance of her nephews and nieces could very well justify this, as they should take control of her money and collection because she's getting stuff stolen from handsome shop clerks. I don't know how wizarding law works, but it feels like making herself very vulnerable to people who are after her.
[09:12] Vinelle: Fortune, which is already a problem, as she mentions that her relatives, they look at her and they see a bag of galleons. But yes, this leads us to the second point, which is that there's really nothing to say. Hepzava was the only client Tom was stealing from, whether or not Mr. Burke and Mr. Barton knew about it, and very well might have. The fact remains that Tom's job was to go to these old ladies'homes and charm them, and they would trust him enough to show him their valuables. We know he had no issue stealing. He would have had every opportunity. And now, to play the devil's advocate slightly, it could be that he was doing this all over the place and Hepsaba, what made her different? The reason why she had to die is that she did find out and she was threatening to kill everybody, tell everybody sorry. And so Tom killed her to silence her. But that doesn't really fit the two day time frame, because in this case, he is suddenly in a big rush. Yeah, and in that case, you're not going to use it. Could be that she discovers the next day and then the day after that, she's dead. But poison, it's not really something quite as reliable as plain old magic, which we know. He could easily have overpowered her and made it look natural. I would not have gone for poison if I was him. In that situation, in an urgent situation like that, and giving her another day, she could owl anybody. She could do a lot.
[10:38] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah. Adding to this, we know Tom is spectacular at memory charms and legitimacy. He could easily fake a memory so that she does not find this out or she has some other memory that will prevent her from talking, whatever that memory needs to be.
[10:57] Vinelle: Hebs about finding out, period was, frankly, never a problem. But yes, there is also moving on to the next point, which is that we don't know when Tom took the locket and the cup. All we know is that the theft was discovered months after she had died. So it may be that he stole them only after she had died, and he realized that nobody actually knew that he knew about them, and that's why he stole those incredibly valuable artifacts instead of doing it while she was alive. Say that I'm right, that Tom was stealing from a bunch of people, not just Hepsaba. He was working at the magical artifact store. While we are now entering headcanon territories, I think I felt safe in assuming that Tom Riddle was capable of creating replicas, and that way it could be years before a theft was discovered, if it was even discovered at all. And it may even, let's say that it does get discovered. And who's to say they ever had a real version? Maybe it always was a counterfeit. And that's relevant because if Tom is capable of creating replicas, which I think is quite feasible, then the only reason why he wouldn't have done this for the locket and the cup must be that he didn't get a chance. He either takes the artifacts while Hebsbar is alive and she dies before he has time to create replicas and then replace them back into her house, or he rushes in after she died, and there's no time for him to replace them with anything. Supporting the theory, actually, that he meant to replace the things he took with Replicas is the fact that he left a box. The relatives, they found a box that they had belonged in, and that is the first thing. Like, of course you're going to steal that one as well, except he didn't, which could indicate that he was going to put it back in and to wrap it up. With Tom leaving the country shortly after Hepseba died, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with her death. We know he'd been working for years at his dead end job in Markden Alley. Unless it was his ambition to stay there, he was probably saving up. So him quitting the job and going abroad might simply be that he'd finally saved up enough money and then the timing was coincidence.
[12:55] The Carnivorous Muffin: And because I know people will do it, even like as though you guys know this is not the podcast for it, there's going to be the argument that Tom murdered her because he just likes murdering people and all right, fair enough. I would play long. He just likes murdering people. This was a pretty bad one if he did it, and one he did it in this way, which is not a murder of passion. This was poison set aside. She died days later when he presumably was not there. He had already fled, so he's not there to watch it, as one would expect if this were something he just enjoys doing. We also don't see him killing a lot of other people in this time frame. Again, it's probably likely he's taking objects from other people. We're not seeing a massive body count. Every time he does it, Hespaba gets singled out and she gets murdered in this very different way than his murders later on where he's using the killing curse to do it. So even if you buy into the he just really likes killing people, this is a strange way for him to go about it.
[14:00] Vinelle: Ultimately, for me, it's the issue that when he doesn't seem to have had a concrete motive for killing Hebseba, it would be much easier for him to simply not kill her. And she either doesn't discover it, doesn't tell anybody, or he can memory wipe her.
[14:15] The Carnivorous Muffin: There is the motive that he was very ****** when he heard about the locket.
[14:21] Vinelle: Yes. God, that's true. I can't believe I forgot that. Yeah, so worth mentioning about Hepseba, and that is actually the exact plot of the mirror cracked by Agatha Christie. Because what Hepsaba does to Tom is that she shows him the locket and then she says, oh, Mr. Burke got this from a destitute pregnant woman who he swindled. And yeah, I don't know what happened to her, but anyway, I got it for a steal. Tom, of course, realizes that the woman in question was his mother. And that money, financial help that could have perhaps made a difference, saved her, was being held by the man he's been working for for years. And now a woman is bragging about it. He is looking furious. And because Dumbledore is a delightful person, he says, yeah, he really cares about lockets. That's why he looks so intense. Dumbledore, I don't think that's it. But the thing about that is that this actually does provide Tom with a motive. Which is that he didn't have a motive. He wasn't thinking. He excuses himself into her kitchen and then grabs the household poison, pours it into the sugar and then goes out again.
[15:29] The Carnivorous Muffin: What a murder of passion. I'm just going to switch the Arctic and the sugar. God, I feel better now. He just leaves again.
[15:44] Vinelle: It's the exact thought of the mirror cracked. But I will put that one on the table because we did have the. And then your mother died. Isn't that great, Tom? Yes, Mr. Smith, great.
[16:02] The Carnivorous Muffin: But I will argue again with that given how we see him killing people later and also the. Well, we'll get into this too. But the murder of his family where they were all murdered right then and there and he just blamed it on someone else. Hoki was right there. Hoki could have murdered Hezboba in cold blood at that moment and has false memories of doing so.
[16:24] Vinelle: Since you bring up the riddles, are we moving on to the final bullet point? Perhaps doing that later?
[16:29] The Carnivorous Muffin: Well, we should devil's advocate first and then we can get to the final bullet point. All right, so the devil's advocate, Dumbledore tells us Tom did it. All right, so let's say Tom did it. Well, there's some issues with that. It is possible, but given all of the above, it's actually kind of a shaky theory. But alright. The cup was in the vault. We know Tom has the cup and the locket. We know Harry saw both the cup and the locket and was able to recognize them on site. Now the cup might not be a Horcrux. The locket, we definitely see it doing very Horcruxy behavior. That's definitely Tom Riddle in there. The cup, it multiplies. And then they burn it.
[17:11] Vinelle: No, but everything multiplied.
[17:12] The Carnivorous Muffin: Actually, everything multiplied and then they burned.
[17:17] Vinelle: There is nothing, no behavior from the cup at any point indicating that it is in fact the hawkrocks.
[17:24] The Carnivorous Muffin: And also, given that Tom at one point had tried to break into gringoths and given the protections he did have around the locket as well as what's implied for the ring, given Dumbledore lost his hand and was slowly being poisoned to death, that he gives it to Bellatrix to store in Gringoths is a bit interesting of a decision if it was truly a Horcrux.
[17:45] Vinelle: Gringoth is made out to be the sort of place that people who don't know a lot about security assume must be very, very secure. And it gets by on the reputation that it's so secure. But then the moment three very poorly prepared 17 year olds try to break into it, they succeed. Frankly, I don't take ringgots all that seriously, given their success.
[18:08] The Carnivorous Muffin: That was pretty bad. Yeah, it was really bad. They used the dragon that was supposed to be the security.
[18:17] Vinelle: Oh. But they succeeded because they had a goblin with them, you see, muffin.
[18:21] The Carnivorous Muffin: Oh, my God. All right.
[18:23] Vinelle: Yeah. But we are moving away from the topic, which is whether he murdered Hepsaba or not.
[18:27] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, we do know the locket was a Horcrux and that he did get it from Hespaba, which means a murder at some point in time, had to have happened, and it might have been Hespaba. However, one thing we know to make a Horcrux, there's some weird ritual involved. To do it before your soul is so caput that it just breaks apart on its own. You have to prepare for it. Presumably, if Hezwaba is dying via poison days after Tom is leaving, he doesn't have the preparation for it to be her. So it's very unlikely for it to be her more. The murder can be done at any point in time. He can have the object and murder someone else abroad, that poor, poor person, who then becomes at least the locket Horcrux. Again, we don't really know if the Goblet cup, whatever it is, is actually a Horcrux or not. Dumbledore has these whole theories of which murders are connected to which horcruxes. And everyone he points out is probably not the case, especially this one, as he very soon fled the country. And it could have been a predetermined murder, but the timing was so variable that Tom would be sitting on his hands a lot, waiting for Horcruxy to.
[19:43] Vinelle: Get in position there to wrap it up. I think it's also worth mentioning that throughout the memories we have served of Tom Riddle, we have served them through the point of view of Obers Dumbledore, who at every point presumes the absolute worst of Tom and never seeks a more charitable explanation or even presents an alternative of a non Thomas evil way things might happen.
[20:10] The Carnivorous Muffin: I love the way Dumbledore presents it because if you actually go back and read the book, which we had the misfortune of doing recently anyway, don't do it, Muffin.
[20:20] Vinelle: You can't tell people to do that because they shouldn't. It's torture.
[20:24] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's terrible. But anyway, point being, every time Dumbledore presents a memory what he actually says before he says it, is now, Harry, I have no idea if this actually happened or not but it sounds like a fantastic story. So I'm making all this **** up, but I'm probably right.
[20:42] Vinelle: But I'm not the exact Dumbledore in phrasing is. And now, Harry, we enter into the enchanting territory of wild speculation. But I'm sure I'm right. For I have, and this is actually something he says. Superior brain power.
[20:57] The Carnivorous Muffin: He has no facts and no evidence, but he believes this **** happened. God, Harry. Harry. Dumbest bricks, love of my life. Okay, sir.
[21:11] Vinelle: Yeah.
[21:12] The Carnivorous Muffin: Wow. He sure murdered all these people. Yes, he sure did.
[21:16] Vinelle: Yeah. I will perhaps, well ruin any credibility we have by just bringing up the final note, which is that we don't know for sure that Riddle killed his father. The evidence we have is perhaps worthy of an episode of its own. But suffice to say, no. The only physical evidence ties Morphin to the site. Whereas Tom Riddle, as Lord Waldmore, would have every reason to lie about this. Of course he's going to lie about this. It's the only way he'll get away with being a half blood. It's if he says he killed the.
[21:52] The Carnivorous Muffin: Muggle relatives, but, yeah, that's an episode for another.
[21:56] Vinelle: That's another episode.
[21:58] The Carnivorous Muffin: Point being, doubt everything Dumbledore ever tells you, ever. Because he has a narrative that he wants to plug.
[22:05] Vinelle: He does.
[22:06] The Carnivorous Muffin: It is a wild ride.
[22:08] Vinelle: He does. With that, there is the glorious, glorious blowing up of the Patreons. You actually have some left. I can't believe it. I love you guys.
[22:19] The Carnivorous Muffin: I know. What are you doing here? I don't say I won't appreciate it. But, guys.
[22:25] Vinelle: Yeah? We're going to have to come up with some content to put on Patreon one of these days. Yeah, we'll think of something. We're open to suggestions. We already made fun of my olive writing. It was ****. But yes, we are going to blow up one of our Patreons. So settle in. We get Trocantry again. Trocantry? I'm so sorry.
[22:48] The Carnivorous Muffin: So sorry. You were blown up by a random number generator. Very sad.
[22:55] Vinelle: It must have been awful. Yeah. I think we're done with the episode.
[22:59] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, I think we're done. Hope you guys enjoy just the latest Harry Potter murder mystery.
[23:04] Vinelle: I don't know if you have. Yes, there's the riddles. And after that, if you have any other murderer mysteries? There's none that coming to mind.
[23:10] The Carnivorous Muffin: Always something in these books, but a lot of the other ones are boring.
[23:17] Vinelle: There can be us speculating wildly on what charity Burberge did. Like whatever went down there. Because the first chapter of Deathly Hallows really makes it seem like there's a story here.
[23:28] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, there is. A story of how she ended up floating above that Death Eater meeting. I don't know what it is, but something wild happened.
[23:38] Vinelle: Yeah, that or the article she wrote in the Daily Profit really was so bad. And, Tom, I guess I got. Who am I going to kill?
[23:46] The Carnivorous Muffin: Her?
[23:47] Vinelle: Yeah. No idea who was going to hover above the table. But then, thankfully, that op ed shows up.
[23:58] The Carnivorous Muffin: Did the Dursleys ever make it to the safe house?
[24:02] Vinelle: You know, I like to believe that they did. And they're still there. Don't know the war is over. They're like those Italian soldiers in the Second World War.
[24:12] The Carnivorous Muffin: All right, but, yeah. That's a wrap, folks.
[24:14] Vinelle: Yes. In case we don't see each other again, good afternoon, good evening, and good night.