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Veterans know how to lead. The lessons we learned in the military form the foundation for bigger successes in business, entrepreneurship and community.
Host John S Berry, CEO of Berry Law, served as an active-duty Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army, finishing his military career with two deployments and retiring as a Battalion Commander in the National Guard. Today, his veteran led team at Berry Law, helps their clients fight some of the most important battles of their lives. Leading successful teams in the courtroom, the boardroom, and beyond, veteran leadership drives the firm’s rapid growth and business excellence.
Whether building teams, synchronizing operations, or refining tactics, we share our experiences, good and bad, to help you survive, thrive and dominate.
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[00:00:02.920] - Omar Dennis
The most important aspects of being a well-rounded human being is being physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy. You have to take care of all three. If you let one of them fall behind,
[00:00:16.650] - Neil Willis
That's correct
[00:00:17.110] - Omar Dennis
or if you ignore one of them, the other two are not going to save you.
[00:00:23.950] - Marlie Andersch
Welcome to the Veteran Led podcast. My name is Marlie Andersch, and I am the guest host today and I have the privilege of being able to interview both Omar and Neil today. Neil, why don't you give us a quick intro of who you are and your business?
[00:00:39.450] - Neil Willis
My name's Neil Willis. I own Hypersign.com, and we're a digital signage service primarily aimed towards acute care healthcare and higher education. Controlling content on displays like a big billboard that may be on the side of the street or, or a small conference room display outside of it. So, we do it for about 1,000 organizations around the world.
[00:01:00.180] - Marlie Andersch
Okay, so the big billboard with John Berry on there, that's you?
[00:01:03.320] - Neil Willis
That's not me. I don't know if that's digital or not. I'm not really sure. But yeah, we can control those and we, you know, for other clients we have, but mainly inside of hospitals, universities, and enterprise businesses.
[00:01:14.980] - Marlie Andersch
Awesome. All right, Omar, give us a little bit about you and who you are. He's—
[00:01:20.900] - Omar Dennis
Okay, I'm ready. Cut that out.
[00:01:23.050] - Neil Willis
He's thinking about his answer. He's like, what do I—
[00:01:24.570] - Omar Dennis
I got it.
[00:01:24.720] - Marlie Andersch
You got it?
[00:01:25.000] - Marlie Andersch
All right. Omar, it's a pleasure.
[00:01:28.160] - Neil Willis
Hey, Marlie.
[00:01:28.790] - Marlie Andersch
Hi.
[00:01:29.210] - Omar Dennis
How are you?
[00:01:29.800] - Marlie Andersch
I'm fantastic.
[00:01:30.830] - Omar Dennis
That's great. That's great. Omar Dennis, President and CEO, Sedulous Consulting Services, cybersecurity and risk management professional services firm. We support the Washington, D.C. area, but we also have, sorry, contracts and people in Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina.
[00:01:50.080] - Marlie Andersch
Awesome. Oh, yeah. I bet you didn't know that Neil was in South Carolina.
[00:01:55.170] - Neil Willis
He knows.
[00:01:55.920] - Marlie Andersch
He did know.
[00:01:56.560] - Omar Dennis
Yeah, we're— yeah.
[00:01:56.960] - Marlie Andersch
See? All right. So we've known each other for a couple of years. Our groups have gotten really close, even though you guys are outsiders. You're not really part of our—
[00:02:06.780] - Neil Willis
No longer. No, not—
[00:02:08.060] - Marlie Andersch
No, we've brought you guys in. I would love to understand, how did you guys as CEO and leaders find the CEO Circle program and what does it actually mean to you? Omar.
[00:02:21.790] - Omar Dennis
If I may, somebody recommended the CEO Circle program to me. I can't remember who exactly recommended the program, but it was a recommendation because I was annoyed at having the challenges and the responsibility and the command decisions without being able to bounce off a wall, without being able to like ask people, how would you have done that? Right? Or have you ever experienced this before? Like, how, what should I do? I'm a leader by trait, so I can make a command decision, but I don't want to make command decisions that have already been made before that resulted in like some type of whatever malicious or bad outcome. So I said that to a partner of mine. They say, hey, have you ever thought about CEO Circle? I said, I've never heard of it. So when I researched it and I made the first phone call, immediately I knew it was an organization that I needed to be a part of because the only thing that can come from and has come from participating in CEO Circle is growth, professional and personal growth.
[00:03:37.190] - Neil Willis
That's good.
[00:03:38.301] - Omar Dennis
Yep
[00:03:38.400] - Marlie Andersch
That's fantastic. What about you, Neil?
[00:03:40.070] - Neil Willis
I could almost replicate some of that answer because I was experiencing some of the same issues of feeling like you're a lone commander. He's a Marine, I'm an Air Force officer. So, we kind of have some similarities and a lot of differences on how we do things. But I got involved in DAV Patriot Boot Camp and Ray Antonino was the one that kind of recommended that. And as I got involved in the program, they're like, hey, you heard about CEO Circle with JP Morgan, Ivy Mathew? I put him on, came the first, I think it was the first day we met.
[00:04:10.680] - Omar Dennis
Yes.
[00:04:11.340] - Neil Willis
We were kind of waiting on the bus and just kind of hit it off. But I think a lot of it was, for me, was making decisions alone and being in that lone command decision and not having a cohort, not to use a term they use here, to bounce things off of, to talk about the challenges that we're running through in being a business, a growing business, even a tech business. And so, this has served as that sounding board for me, is to have conversations about this is a struggle I'm dealing with in growth. This is the financial issue, whatever the issue may be. Friendship ended up being on top of all that, which was great. So, it served both of those purposes for me, was to help me with growth challenges, but also build a network of friends and colleagues that we could end up kind of having fun together as well.
[00:04:59.690] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah, Neil, that's actually a really great point because as leaders, a lot of times we feel alone, but when we get together, Personally, I feel like we all get up, we find opportunities to laugh, we find opportunities to make fun of each other, we find opportunities to be very vulnerable. Has there ever been a moment in this program where you've met one of your CEO colleagues where you felt like, that was the most amazing fun I've ever had? And what does that look like? Omar.
[00:05:35.130] - Omar Dennis
So, I'm going to say this to you, Marlie. After the first session in December of 2024, I actually went home and cried.
[00:05:48.280] - Marlie Andersch
Ah,
[00:05:49.010] - Omar Dennis
you hear me?
[00:05:49.630] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah, I do.
[00:05:50.270] - Omar Dennis
Because I was talking to people and I realized that I wasn't alone. The challenges, right?
[00:05:56.550] - Neil Willis
That's awesome.
[00:05:57.090] - Omar Dennis
The challenges, the shit I was feeling. Cut that out. The struggles that I have encountered. The previous year and I started asking questions and being vulnerable and realizing that other people had experienced the same thing. Right? So you say laugh and fun, but crying is part of that.
[00:06:19.640] - Neil Willis
That's good.
[00:06:20.200] - Omar Dennis
And I'm being for real.
[00:06:20.990] - Neil Willis
Yeah.
[00:06:21.170] - Omar Dennis
Like getting that out and you're like, ooh, it's not just me. Right?
[00:06:24.440] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:06:24.790] - Omar Dennis
It's not just me. That's the fun of it right there.
[00:06:28.380] - Marlie Andersch
It really is. Because I don't know that there's ever really an environment where you feel like you can just be that way and it's okay because we've all walked the same journey. We've all fought the same fought. We've been Veterans, we've served our country. But it's different being a leader, right? And then it's all on you because there are things that we do and people don't think about, right? It's, are we going to make payroll? Is someone in our company, do they have an HR issue that we've got to make sure we're dealing with? Is the culture right? Like, we make so many decisions that the weight of it is hard. I mean, there there so many times where I've cried. And I'll tell you a quick story after we get to hear Neil's fun— was it crying?
[00:07:13.430] - Neil Willis
I don't know if I've ever seen crying as being fun. I guess maybe, I don't know. Uh,
[00:07:19.690] - Omar Dennis
that's good.
[00:07:20.330] - Neil Willis
But I, I think a lot of it was back to having that network. I think you can't galvanize as a team unless there's vulnerability, you know, unless there is that— you've got that, that low point. And I would almost feel like maybe your crying was actually something you didn't feel alone anymore. It was almost like a joy. It was, it was, it was, yes, it was contentment going, oh my God, there's an aha moment to where you're like, I'm not alone anymore. I've got, I've got, I got my guys, my gals around me that, that think, feel, and work like I do. And for so long it was, it was that. And I, I had a moment like that. Um, I didn't cry, almost did, but I didn't. But in this year's CEO Circle there was the founder of Tacovas, the cowboy boots. And I'm a cowboy boot guy, you know, I love to wear them. And here's a guy that's doing $450 million in revenue, and he's on the stage talking about like, I was at this stage of the business, I didn't know what to do.
[00:08:18.580] - Neil Willis
I didn't know how to be able to make payroll. I didn't be able to— I didn't know how to put this marketing plan together to make it grow. I tried this to see if it would work, and it worked. There was so much vulnerability, not just from us as colleagues, but even the people that were on the stage that were way beyond where I am in business revenue-wise. And that was a teaching lesson to say it's great for us to be in this area to where we're doing millions of dollars of business, but to look at a business doing almost half a billion dollars in revenue to where you— they're talking about their path. It sounds identical to your path. And that's inspiring. That's inspiring to be able to see they went through it just like we're doing right now and look at where they got. Look at where their journey took them.
[00:09:02.870] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:09:03.290] - Neil Willis
So, it's, I think it's two ways. It's the, you know, the galvanizing of our team and our friendship and our, you know, what, but also seeing those people where they've gone and what they went through just like we're doing it. So, and they found this They found this— I'll say fraternity, that's not probably the right word— this team like we did maybe early on in their career, and we're finding it now, and it's exciting because we're like, okay, now I can go there. I can go to the mountain right now because I've got my dudes with me. I've got— you know what I'm saying?
[00:09:34.270] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah. I can tell you a quick story about me, Omar, that I remember a couple years ago I was going through a moment in my company It was really, really hard. And I felt like I just wanted to give up. I wanted to be done. I was having a lot of internal challenges with, you know, just some internal challenges. And I remember calling one of our guys from our CEO Circle and he goes, you stop where you're at, wherever you are, I will be there. And he and a couple of other guys showed up on my doorstep, and they talked me through this, and they were able to give me that strength. And I had a lot of tears. I cried so much that year. And being able to know that I had those guys come in, support me and talk me off the ledge, it meant the world to me. I don't know if I would still be here today if I didn't have you guys, if I didn't have our community to be there and lift us up. Now, on the flip side, when we are here together, we have found so many opportunities to bond and make fun of each other.
[00:10:44.670] - Marlie Andersch
And I remember one of our guys the other day, Chris, he said, you know, I love you like a sister. I'm going to make fun of you. I'm going to poke you. And this is just what we do because we give each other so much crap. You guys know that.
[00:10:59.290] - Omar Dennis
I mean, it's part of the growth, right? Right. If I don't love you, right? And I'm talking like professionally.
[00:11:06.600] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:11:07.720] - Omar Dennis
Then I'm not going to care about like nudging you in the side every morning. Hey, straighten up or hey, stop and fix your hair or something like that. Like these are all terms of professional endearment, right?
[00:11:19.360] - Marlie Andersch
Oh yeah.
[00:11:20.000] - Omar Dennis
Right. Because we love each other so much. Oh yeah. We are allowed to— I was going to say exploit each other's vulnerabilities. Right? Right. And we have no problems taking it because we know it's all in love. Like it's all in good fun.
[00:11:38.690] - Marlie Andersch
Exactly.
[00:11:39.210] - Omar Dennis
Right. So again, being a leader of leaders is extremely challenging. But being a leader who's been vulnerable and that's looking forward to failing and/or addressing obstacles because you want people to know, listen, I'm not perfect. I'm never going to be perfect. I'm going to make mistakes. I failed 100 times, but I'm going to keep going. Like, this is how I need you to follow me.
[00:12:08.560] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah,
[00:12:08.960] - Omar Dennis
because, you know, I'm going to keep going no matter what. And I'm always going to learn from my peers, right? I'm going to learn. I'm going to put lessons learned and knowledge bases into practice. So that we don't have as much of a difficult time that we may have had, had I not been vulnerable and asked questions.
[00:12:27.440] - Marlie Andersch
Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, the other point of that is we make fun of each other. We give each other a really hard time. But I know that if the phone call ever happened and if you needed me there, I would show up on your doorstep, just like our other colleagues have done for me. And I know you guys would do that for me. Now, quick question for Neil.
[00:12:48.970] - Neil Willis
Yes, ma'am.
[00:12:50.480] - Marlie Andersch
You think about our relationship, right? The most fun out of our relationship has always been our competitive spirit.
[00:12:59.630] - Neil Willis
Oh, I know where this is going.
[00:13:02.690] - Marlie Andersch
Let's talk about how you constantly lose to me. How does that feel?
[00:13:06.300] - Neil Willis
Oh my gosh, Marlie.
[00:13:10.540] - Neil Willis
So, so everybody knows about the plank competition that was started last year.
[00:13:15.370] - Omar Dennis
Yes.
[00:13:16.160] - Neil Willis
And what was it, 2 mornings ago? Thursday morning. All right, so we're in New York, you know, we're at the Crunch Fitness and Marlie's there, Barb Carson's there, you know, myself. We're like, okay, we're gonna start this plank competition. Now I feel like I was fairly prepared, you know, I do it when I work out, you know, 3 sets of 2-minute, you know, planks. And, um, So I'm down. Barb taps out at 3 minutes, which I think she could have gone a lot longer than that because Barb's extremely fit. And I'm sitting there and I go 5 minutes. And up to that 5 minutes, Martha's like talking trash. And so I drop at 5 minutes. She drops at 5:01. And it was less about the— it was the competitive. I'm not going to do this. So this year, Thursday, we've got like, what, 6 of us?
[00:14:06.110] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:14:07.090] - Neil Willis
Me and you, Barb, Dean, Chris, Z, I mean V. Yeah. So, we were all kind of doing this plank competition. I'm in. So, I'm right sub-5 minutes, close to where I was last year. And I'm like, yeah, I'm done. So, her and Dean Wagner, you know, who owns Authentically American, did not— he didn't compete last year. They're going at it for— I've got the picture. 20-minute plank, Omar.
[00:14:34.970] - Omar Dennis
How is that humanly possible?
[00:14:36.390] - Neil Willis
20-minute plank.
[00:14:38.370] - Omar Dennis
Elbows or hands?
[00:14:40.090] - Neil Willis
No, they were switching to side obliques. They were going there, you know, they were— because we were just— I was just on my elbows the whole time. I should have done side, could have given a little break on my center abs, but I've gotten a little soft over the past 6 months. Not as in the gym as much as I used to be. So, 20 minutes, and I'm— if it was like— and her high, she's told me before, it was 8. 8 minutes ever done was 8.
[00:15:05.860] - Omar Dennis
So, what propelled you to 20?
[00:15:08.340] - Marlie Andersch
It's winning.
[00:15:09.210] - Neil Willis
Yeah, she's not going to give up.
[00:15:10.410] - Omar Dennis
That's all it is.
[00:15:10.920] - Neil Willis
Here's the— no, here's what happened. So, we get— they get— they're approaching 20 minutes. So, her and Dean are facing each other, and they make an agreement: at 20 minutes, we're dropping. And I saw this. I saw this. Nobody else saw this except me. I'm watching them. They, they shake hands. They make an agreement: we're going to drop at 20 minutes. 20 minutes hit, Dean drops. 1 second later, Molly drops. So, if it's ever— if there's any instant replay in the back, she's going to say, no, I really won.
[00:15:41.540] - Omar Dennis
So, you feed off of competition?
[00:15:44.360] - Marlie Andersch
I do. It is a horrible trait that I have.
[00:15:47.510] - Marlie Andersch
It is . It really is. It's winning to a fault. It is absolutely winning to a fault.
[00:15:52.280] - Neil Willis
And I tease her because I'm like, I'm 205 pounds. She's as big as a minute. I mean, she's petite. I'm like, they don't take that much to hold up a 100-pound body, you know. But, you know, I'm like, put a couple of 45-pound plates on your back and see. But yeah, so I, I don't know. But yeah, she killed it, man. She was like, you know, uh, you got her and Dean are the king and queen of planks. So, it's discouraging because now we go into other fly-ins, I'm like, hey, we're gonna do the plank competition. I'm like, there is no way, you're gonna feel like 20 minutes. I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to wear some type brace on my back just to be able to keep it straight there for that long, you know? But no, it was impressive.
[00:16:30.720] - Marlie Andersch
It was so much fun though.
[00:16:31.930] - Neil Willis
She kicked our butt.
[00:16:32.650] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah, because we, we lead up to the competition, we egg each other on, we find opportunities to say, you ready? You ready? Let's go, let's go. And I think that's another big part of what we do. Now, Omar, are you ready?
[00:16:46.710] - Omar Dennis
I am.
[00:16:47.590] - Marlie Andersch
Omar is so mean. He's like, Marlie, you get 3 questions. That's all you get. And you ask me way too many questions. It's too much. That's all you get. I'm tea-timing you. You only get 3. And then I ask him 20 questions. He goes, I said just 3. So, number 1, let's talk about the concept of a PIP. And let's— number 2, let's talk about why you cap questions.
[00:17:14.990] - Omar Dennis
OK.
[00:17:15.880] - Neil Willis
The concept of what?
[00:17:17.070] - Omar Dennis
A PIP.
[00:17:17.480] - Marlie Andersch
A PIP.
[00:17:18.590] - Marlie Andersch
performance improvement plan.
[00:17:21.250] - Omar Dennis
Not a PIMP. A PIP.
[00:17:23.560] - Neil Willis
Where's this conversation going?
[00:17:25.640] - Omar Dennis
so a performance improvement plan.
[00:17:28.300] - Neil Willis
Gotcha. Okay.
[00:17:29.160] - Omar Dennis
Right.
[00:17:29.730] - Neil Willis
All right. We're on business now.
[00:17:31.250] - Omar Dennis
A PIP, a performance improvement plan, is only a good thing. It's never a negative thing. It's an acknowledgment that I see more in you than you see in yourself. Right?
[00:17:46.010] - Marlie Andersch
Yes.
[00:17:46.330] - Omar Dennis
That's the way I approach it. So, if I put someone on a PIP, it's because I care. Right? I could easily fire people. I can easily let people go. I can easily get angry, get mad, yell. But instead, if I say, hey, it's time for you to go on a PIP, that means I actually care about you. So, my performance improvement plans are always to make a person better, right? And it might be something that they don't see in themselves, right? So, what Marlie is referring to is I have people in my personal life that I put on PIPs.
[00:18:24.930] - Neil Willis
Uh-oh. Right?
[00:18:26.140] - Omar Dennis
They know?
[00:18:26.620] - Neil Willis
Yes.
[00:18:27.360] - Marlie Andersch
Okay.
[00:18:27.980] - Omar Dennis
They know. And the thing is, in the military, right? And in an organization where you can't question like the intent behind why we're doing what we're doing, because it needs to be done. PIPs are expected, but in a private life, it's so unexpected. They receive it well. They're like, holy crap. So, you are saying I can do this, I could do this, and I can do this. And I only have a limited amount of time to do it. So, I may or may not have I put someone that I really care about on a PIP.
[00:19:07.090] - Neil Willis
Do you have a PIP, Marlie?
[00:19:09.160] - Marlie Andersch
I don't have a PIP.
[00:19:09.840] - Omar Dennis
May or may not.
[00:19:10.930] - Omar Dennis
And that—
[00:19:12.570] - Neil Willis
Secret PIP. Yes, sir.
[00:19:14.470] - Omar Dennis
The receiver of the PIP killed it. Did 10 times better than I ever thought they were going to do, only because they were challenged.
[00:19:25.630] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah. And see, Neil, I love that because To Omar's point, when you think about really caring about someone and then letting them know what is wrong and how they can improve, or how do you work together for that improvement, it really does mean that you care. And I can't tell you that there has been anyone in my entire life that I know of that has actually put people that they care about on a PIP. And so, I, I hear about that and I'm like, wow, that's fantastic. Because what that actually means when I hear Omar tell the story is that he does care. And, you know, we go through, through life as Veterans, we've experienced so many different things. And the people that we care about most, significant others, children, they don't know about the things that we carry on our shoulders because we are, a lot of us are really quiet about that. But by doing that, it's saying we want to work on this. We want to work on it together. How do we find a way to get our relationships intact. And I think a lot of times when we grow up or we get older as Veterans, we hold it back and we hope that maybe you're reading my mind and that you know that maybe I'm not happy.
[00:20:46.330] - Marlie Andersch
Maybe there's an argument there and we're not really working on it.
[00:20:49.300] - Marlie Andersch
But the whole PIP outside of work and doing it personal,
[00:20:52.970] - Omar Dennis
it brings it to light.
[00:20:54.590] - Marlie Andersch
It does.
[00:20:55.640] - Neil Willis
I'm thinking about that. So In a business setting, I see that, you know, because you've got individuals or employees that, you know, like a CEO, we're going to try to push the envelope for what we're able to do as a company to continue to grow. And they'll come back up, we can't do that. I'm like, yes you can. You have vision for their abilities or their capabilities that maybe they don't see.
[00:21:16.230] - Omar Dennis
Yes, sir.
[00:21:16.670] - Neil Willis
And I'm sitting there thinking it from a personal basis. If I were to go to my wife Julie, I'm like, I'm gonna put you on a PIP. And she's gonna be, excuse me?
[00:21:27.220] - Omar Dennis
Timeout. Have you ever been put on the PIP?
[00:21:29.920] - Marlie Andersch
That's a good question.
[00:21:30.650] - Omar Dennis
And would you know?
[00:21:31.620] - Neil Willis
Personally or professionally?
[00:21:33.660] - Marlie Andersch
Personally.
[00:21:34.480] - Neil Willis
Unless they've told me, I'm not aware I've ever been put.
[00:21:37.140] - Omar Dennis
You've probably been put on the PIP before.
[00:21:40.200] - Neil Willis
Yeah, I probably need to be put on the PIP right now.
[00:21:43.150] - Omar Dennis
Right now. Okay, so now—
[00:21:44.440] - Neil Willis
Maybe you put me on the PIP and I just don't know about it Omar.
[00:21:48.090] - Omar Dennis
To the second part of your question, Marlie. Yeah, the 3 questions.
[00:21:51.560] - Marlie Andersch
Yes.
[00:21:52.930] - Omar Dennis
I am fairly confident that whenever we ask questions as human beings, we know exactly what we want to know before we even start asking questions.
[00:22:04.730] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:22:05.210] - Omar Dennis
You know what you want to know, but either you're going to slow walk it through a series of questions or you're not sure if you should really ask the question. So I tell people, don't ask me more than 3 questions because I want you to get to the point.
[00:22:20.220] - Marlie Andersch
I thought that was just me.
[00:22:21.210] - Omar Dennis
No.
[00:22:21.900] - Marlie Andersch
Oh, thank God.
[00:22:22.250] - Omar Dennis
That's everyone.
[00:22:23.260] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:22:23.600] - Omar Dennis
That's everyone.
[00:22:24.220] - Marlie Andersch
Okay.
[00:22:24.560] - Omar Dennis
I need for you to be confident in saying, why are you wearing those shoes today? Instead of how is your day? Is it hot? Is it cold? Did you forget something? Like all these random— no. Ask me the question you want me to ask. In my professional and personal life, I challenge people to say exactly what they mean the first time around. So there's no fluff, there's no fog, there's no, you know, playing around. It's, hey, my personal relationship. If my girlfriend comes up to me and says it's too cold in here, right? I'm not going to automatically turn up the temperature. I'm going to ask her what she wants. What do you want right now? Do you want to get out the house? Do you want to, you know, put on more clothes? Excuse me. Do you want to— I get to the point. And it's not always a good thing, Marlie. It's not. I'm telling you, as a human being, it's not always a good thing because sometimes as humans, we need people to just sit back and listen and absorb and, you know, but I have no patience for not getting to the, like, the truth or the point of a conversation.
[00:23:39.860] - Marlie Andersch
Right.
[00:23:40.430] - Neil Willis
He's— On the flip, you flip that around. I learned this about Omar really early because I'm recalling back to our bus ride when we first met.
[00:23:48.780] - Omar Dennis
We sat beside each other.
[00:23:49.690] - Neil Willis
We sat beside each other. That first conference we met, I mean, it's like the whole conference. We're just like twins hanging out with each other.
[00:23:57.100] - Omar Dennis
Yes, sir.
[00:23:57.700] - Neil Willis
Even when he got his backpack stolen.
[00:23:59.140] - Omar Dennis
Yes. Yes.
[00:24:00.990] - Neil Willis
Had to call the police just to be able to find his backpack. Police report. Yeah. But on the bus ride, I mean, here we are going from— I guess it was here. It was in Dallas. We were going from Dallas to Plano, and he was constantly asking me questions. And he said, I've just got this— I'll call it a protocol. I don't know if the word you used about learning about people that he was interested in. Well, he was just asking questions, and I was just like, you know, just like talking crazy. I got done with the bus ride. I'm like, I don't know nothing about this cat.
[00:24:29.050] - Omar Dennis
He said it when we got off the bus. Neil was like, I haven't asked you a single question yet.
[00:24:34.780] - Neil Willis
He was asking me to get to know.
[00:24:35.760] - Neil Willis
But it was great. And we did. We actually did a lot more dialog. With that. But I learned that about it. I'm like, man, I like this dude because, you know, he's engaged. It's even last night we went out for Mexican, a group of us.
[00:24:48.380] - Omar Dennis
Oh yes.
[00:24:49.100] - Neil Willis
And he's standing behind me and asking me a question. He says, well, could we have had a private conversation? But he's like, come on, dude. I'm like, nobody knows what we're talking about. And he goes and starts rubbing top of my head. You know, he's having a conversation with me and he's rubbing my head. And I'm like, you know, that's personal space that you don't allow very many people to kind of get that close to you. But he was rubbing my almost bald head. And I'm like, so people automatically see that like, well, they must be pretty good friends, you know, because he's literally got his hand on his head.
[00:25:17.570] - Omar Dennis
Marlie, I had no idea that he recognized what I was doing. We were just talking. I just start rubbing his head. And he looks at me, and then he kind of looks down, and then he moves my hand.
[00:25:31.180] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:25:31.930] - Neil Willis
We're perfectly happy men in our own booth.
[00:25:35.230] - Omar Dennis
Comfortable.
[00:25:35.730] - Neil Willis
Yeah, but people from the outside looking in going, what is going on over there? You know, there's—
[00:25:40.510] - Marlie Andersch
Brothers from another mother.
[00:25:41.920] - Neil Willis
Well, I've said it how many times? I'm like, you know, we're friends and, you know, it's like a lot. Man, that is so great.
[00:25:48.540] - Marlie Andersch
Yes.
[00:25:49.030] - Neil Willis
Isn't that great that you can come to these events and you feel like you've just got, it's like family. It's like having a brother or a sister that's halfway across the country. I mean, he's in DC, I'm in South Carolina, but I know, just like what you said earlier, Marlie, I know I could pick up a phone and call you or call him. Marlie gives me crap just a few months ago. Because she's at Patriot Boot Camp. Remember I invited you to Patriot Boot Camp?
[00:26:12.260] - Omar Dennis
Yes, sir.
[00:26:12.670] - Neil Willis
She goes to Patriot Boot Camp. There was some mix-up with DAV with me going. She was in Myrtle Beach. So Marlie sends me a video holding up my badge at Patriot Boot Camp.
[00:26:23.520] - Omar Dennis
You were supposed to be there.
[00:26:24.490] - Neil Willis
Yeah, evidently, because I had a badge. I didn't know I was supposed to be there. And she's like, oh my gosh, dude, I'm sitting here and you're not here. Here's your badge. Next time I see you, I'm going to kick your butt. She used other colorful language.
[00:26:35.470] - Omar Dennis
Oh, of course.
[00:26:36.280] - Neil Willis
Of course.
[00:26:36.750] - Omar Dennis
Because Marlie is. Yes.
[00:26:38.040] - Neil Willis
But that's the thing. I mean, we can have that fun with each other. That's what I love about these events is the connection.
[00:26:45.880] - Omar Dennis
Me too.
[00:26:46.300] - Neil Willis
And then we can have like, because I've had business conversations with him.
[00:26:50.800] - Marlie Andersch
Random.
[00:26:51.270] - Omar Dennis
It'll be a Wednesday, 10:38 AM. I'm at work, he's at work. We're all doing what we do.
[00:26:57.770] - Neil Willis
Yeah.
[00:26:58.270] - Omar Dennis
And he'll just call me and I'll be in the middle of a meeting and I'll say, hey, give me a moment.
[00:27:03.510] - Neil Willis
Yeah, call back.
[00:27:04.480] - Omar Dennis
Hey, Neil. Or look, I'll call you right back. Like you too.
[00:27:07.800] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:27:08.210] - Omar Dennis
Like it doesn't matter why you're calling. What I know is this.
[00:27:10.280] - Neil Willis
It's mostly I've got a new idea about something I want to write
[00:27:13.460] - Omar Dennis
You see this?
[00:27:14.750] - Omar Dennis
It doesn't matter. We've cultivated and marinated these relationships, these professional friendships and relationships so much that it doesn't matter where I am geographically or mentally. When I get a phone call from my CEO buddies, it lifts my day. And I'm just being honest because I don't know what the challenge is going to be. Like, I don't know what the question is going to be. I don't know, like, if I can help or not.
[00:27:42.930] - Neil Willis
Right.
[00:27:43.630] - Omar Dennis
I could be in the dross of my day. Oh, I'm having a bad day. Marlie. Oh, it's Marlie. It's got to be something cool. Like, it's got to be something cool that we're going to talk about.
[00:27:51.960] - Neil Willis
I love that.
[00:27:52.560] - Marlie Andersch
I remember what it is.
[00:27:54.020] - Omar Dennis
I'm like, excited.
[00:27:55.070] - Marlie Andersch
I got Neil. We're coming up to D.C. and we're going to meet you in Annapolis. Can you come with us? I don't remember what it was. You were like, no, but I'll see you there.
[00:28:06.410] - Omar Dennis
And I was there, wasn't I?
[00:28:07.380] - Marlie Andersch
Yes, you were. Absolutely.
[00:28:09.130] - Omar Dennis
In purple.
[00:28:10.190] - Marlie Andersch
In purple.
[00:28:10.910] - Omar Dennis
In purple.
[00:28:11.780] - Marlie Andersch
That's right.
[00:28:12.280] - Omar Dennis
Nevertheless, right?
[00:28:14.030] - Neil Willis
Yeah, to clarify for the audience, you were in purple call sign. I think that's what you're referring to.
[00:28:19.050] - Omar Dennis
I'm in green.
[00:28:19.900] - Neil Willis
I was red too.
[00:28:20.640] - Marlie Andersch
You were red too.
[00:28:21.450] - Omar Dennis
But I showed up in purple for you, Marlie.
[00:28:23.780] - Marlie Andersch
That's right, because purple is literally one of the best.
[00:28:26.700] - Neil Willis
It's royalty.
[00:28:27.810] - Marlie Andersch
It is. We do call you guys the outsiders, which means we bring you into our wonderful circle, and we love having you guys everywhere we go.
[00:28:35.310] - Omar Dennis
I love it.
[00:28:35.500] - Marlie Andersch
All right, we're going to wrap up real quick. And I'm going to give you two an opportunity to ask me one quick question because I have been interviewing you guys and I wanted you guys to give an opportunity to maybe harass me a little bit about something because I've made you guys talk about stuff.
[00:28:53.900] - Neil Willis
You're like,
[00:28:56.460] - Omar Dennis
yeah, I got one.
[00:28:57.260] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah, okay, let's go.
[00:28:58.980] - Omar Dennis
So I, um, every summer I host cybersecurity interns
[00:29:06.090] - Neil Willis
Okay.
[00:29:06.560] - Omar Dennis
Right. From George Mason University.
[00:29:08.740] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:29:09.550] - Omar Dennis
They spend about 12 weeks with me. At the end of those 12 weeks, they have a security clearance background investigation started.
[00:29:17.400] - Marlie Andersch
Yes.
[00:29:17.960] - Omar Dennis
And they have an opportunity to get their Security+ certification. So we train them, we teach them, we make them study. Some pass, some fail, but we always pay for the certification test anyway. I say that to say to you, there are a lot of young people that are interested in being entrepreneurs, but they are afraid to take the, like, the leap or take the jump,
[00:29:44.220] - Neil Willis
right?
[00:29:44.550] - Omar Dennis
Because of the geopolitical climate, right? And or just because of the economy itself. What would you say to a young Marlie today about why she should start her own business?
[00:30:00.340] - Marlie Andersch
Wow, that is a great question. I will say that I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs and I was the black sheep. I got a job, 401(k), healthcare benefits after my service in the military. Go Air Force.
[00:30:16.800] - Marlie Andersch
If I had to do it over again,
[00:30:18.630] - Neil Willis
we don't have a, we don't have like a shout out.
[00:30:20.380] - Marlie Andersch
I know we don't have a, do they still have the Marines?
[00:30:23.040] - Marlie Andersch
Oorah
[00:30:23.260] - Omar Dennis
oorah
[00:30:23.660] - Marlie Andersch
oorah
[00:30:23.870] - Neil Willis
Somebody needs to make up one for the Air Force.
[00:30:26.550] - Omar Dennis
Like fly high, aim high, aim high, don't get high.
[00:30:29.130] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah, aim high, don't get high.
[00:30:30.800] - Omar Dennis
Aim high.
[00:30:32.240] - Marlie Andersch
I don't know. Sometimes people want, but they're risk adverse. And I feel like when I started my company, I was 40-some-odd years old.
[00:30:40.920] - Neil Willis
Mm-hmm.
[00:30:42.890] - Marlie Andersch
48 years old when I started my company.
[00:30:45.620] - Neil Willis
Okay.
[00:30:46.020] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah. And sometimes I feel like I should have done it sooner, but all the jobs that I had before I started my own company gave me the experience I needed. It gave me reality. It gave me the opportunity to say, Maybe I am a little bit more ready for this. Now, on the flip side, my husband, he had a job for, you know, the corporate job. He retired. He actually went out and purchased a franchise and owned his own business for a couple years. Then one day his former boss came to him and said, come back and work for me. And he looked at me and he said, Marlie, I know that I'm doing well as an entrepreneur, but I know in my heart it's not for me. I tried it I didn't enjoy it. I love going back to my corporate job with all the things that you get and you don't have to think about it.
[00:31:34.290] - Omar Dennis
That's a great point.
[00:31:35.150] - Neil Willis
You get your evenings back.
[00:31:36.190] - Omar Dennis
No, no, that's a great point.
[00:31:37.080] - Neil Willis
You leave work at work.
[00:31:38.120] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah, leave work at work. You do your thing and you don't have to worry about all the things, right? And so sometimes it's maybe take a little bite, figure out, you know, sell something on the side. Does it really work for you? And then, you know, figure out what your risk averseness is because it is hard. As you know.
[00:31:56.900] - Neil Willis
Excellent.
[00:31:57.360] - Marlie Andersch
All right, next question.
[00:31:58.150] - Neil Willis
My turn? Okay. All right. RockIT Data, your business, in case anybody knows, very successful, it's done very well.
[00:32:06.600] - Marlie Andersch
Yes.
[00:32:07.940] - Neil Willis
If RockIT Data did not exist— a lot of people are, you know, they have their hobbies, they have their likes, their interests, things that just really charge them and excite them.
[00:32:19.890] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:32:20.530] - Neil Willis
So if RockIT Data didn't exist, what is something that you're compelled to go, man, I would— this would be my dream job. This is what I would— even if it is running another business, what would that be if RockIT Data was no more? And I think about this from Hypersign. If Hypersign was no more, what would I want to do?
[00:32:38.170] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:32:38.580] - Neil Willis
You know, other than being on a tractor on my land. I mean, that's, that's my happiest place, you know, and my family. Um, but if it didn't exist, where would Marlie just be compelled to go if that didn't, if that was not actually?
[00:32:51.600] - Marlie Andersch
That is a great question because this year—
[00:32:53.590] - Omar Dennis
We are good question askers, by the way.
[00:32:55.120] - Marlie Andersch
Yes, you are.
[00:32:56.010] - Neil Willis
We're collaborating.
[00:32:57.300] - Omar Dennis
We're kind of awesome.
[00:32:59.450] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah, kind of. I mean, you're like really awesome. I think I'm going to ask John Berry to get you guys to be the co-guest host's next time.
[00:33:06.930] - Neil Willis
We can work that out.
[00:33:08.680] - Omar Dennis
Yeah, man.
[00:33:11.080] - Marlie Andersch
You know what? This year has been an interesting year for me because I have found opportunities to give back to our community.
[00:33:17.840] - Neil Willis
That's great.
[00:33:18.700] - Marlie Andersch
And one of it was a little selfish. I was trying to put together a pickleball tournament and I wanted to take the funds from the tournament and give back. And we were trying to figure out what that actually meant, who we were going to give back to. And one of the guys in our, uh, CEO Circle program said, you should think about maybe giving the funds to a program called Stop Soldier Suicide.
[00:33:41.790] - Neil Willis
Oh wow.
[00:33:42.760] - Marlie Andersch
And so I, I met a couple of the guys that were running Stop Soldier Suicide and digging in and understanding their mission. It was really heartfelt. And then from there, I really felt like I wanted to continue to give back to those because I do feel very fortunate and very grateful in my life that I have the friends, I have the family, I have my health. That I try to find gratitude every day. But if I can give back to someone that is hurting— Omar, I introduced you to one of my friends, right? She had suicide in her family.
[00:34:18.500] - Omar Dennis
Yes, ma'am.
[00:34:19.540] - Marlie Andersch
And I think about how I've introduced her to that community, and that community has given her the strength to get up and go on when someone in her family had taken their lives. And so when I can give back, when I can say, guys, let's do something together and give back to those that are hurting. That mission makes me feel really good about RockIT Data 2.0, Marlie 2.0, and being intentional in that way, it makes me feel so much better than being able to run this company. So I hope that answered your question.
[00:34:56.780] - Neil Willis
No, that's admirable. And I think the statistic— and tell me if I'm wrong— is there are more death by soldiers in suicide than there actually is in wartime deaths.
[00:35:03.840] - Marlie Andersch
Absolutely.
[00:35:04.390] - Omar Dennis
That is correct.
[00:35:04.970] - Neil Willis
Annually. So that's got to be a shocking statistic. That's really— I mean, we're signing— remember that document we signed during MEPS or whatever that we're committing our life for so long that you have more people that are compelled more to take their own life than actually going and fighting and how they die. I mean, that's a big problem.
[00:35:27.760] - Omar Dennis
If I can ride your tailcoat.
[00:35:29.350] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:35:29.990] - Omar Dennis
You two talked about having a plank challenge earlier, right? That's part of being physically healthy.
[00:35:36.740] - Neil Willis
Sure.
[00:35:36.890] - Omar Dennis
Right.
[00:35:37.710] - Omar Dennis
But what I've learned is that if you can't be physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy, right, you have to have all three.
[00:35:47.890] - Neil Willis
Right.
[00:35:48.290] - Omar Dennis
That's a part of being this holistic, well human being.
[00:35:52.040] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:35:52.300] - Omar Dennis
Right. It's not just about the physical health. You have to challenge people. Hey, how are you? What's going on? Is everything okay?
[00:35:59.680] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:36:00.240] - Omar Dennis
Right. Is there anything else you need up here to be the best version of you? Right.
[00:36:05.930] - Marlie Andersch
Yeah.
[00:36:06.360] - Omar Dennis
It's very important.
[00:36:07.070] - Marlie Andersch
Omar, that is awesome the way you summarize that. And we've got to wrap this up because I feel like I can talk to you guys forever. I want you to say that again one more time. What are the 3 things?
[00:36:18.610] - Omar Dennis
The 3 things, the most important aspects of being a well-rounded human being is being physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy. You have to take care of all three. If you let one of them fall behind—
[00:36:32.760] - Neil Willis
That's correct.
[00:36:33.410] - Omar Dennis
Or if you ignore one of them, the other two are not going to save you. Okay. I know a lot of people, soldiers, Marines, sailors, airmen that were tough, that committed suicide. Right? Because they weren't healthy up here. So that's what I preach in my day-to-day work. Every day I come in, I speak to people, and then I pull them to the side and make sure that they're okay. Even if they're not displaying anything, pull them to the side anyway. Anything you want to talk about today? I'm good, boss. All right. And then you get the best version of them for that day.
[00:37:09.390] - Neil Willis
I think that's the strength we have as a team too. As a whole, we kind of have a core group of about, what, 20 or so of us, 15, 20, that we're talking to that, uh, you know, that physical, uh, spiritual, or, or, uh, you know, yeah, I mean, all those different aspects of it. Because I know I may not be having a physical challenge, but if I'm just struggling with something, I know I've got a, I've got a group that I can call to be able to help prop me up during that time frame that I'm going through that. And that helps that mental strength, you know, that spiritual strength during that time frame to have people that are there. So, so you're— I mean, you're exactly right. But it's also, it's reassuring to know if I do struggle mentally, if I'm having a bad week, I'm having a bad month, then I've got somebody to be able to help. Just like, I mean, it mimics our service. It mimics our service. There's no such thing as an army of one. That was the thing with the Army years ago. What they meant was they were all working as one unit.
[00:38:08.250] - Neil Willis
And that's ingrained in our brains when we are taught to become part of the US military, is we're never alone.
[00:38:15.160] - Marlie Andersch
Right. So, Neil, as we wrap this thing up, you and I talked a couple of weeks ago about this really awesome shirt for working out. And there were a couple of things that you wanted to put on. You need to be very brief because we're wrapping this up. The 3 words—
[00:38:28.980] - Marlie Andersch
Me and brief don't mix.
[00:38:30.180] - Neil Willis
I know. You and brief, they don't mix very well. No, the 3 things that you were going to put on the shirt, when you told me about that, I'm like, I'm in. I love this. Talk about the 3 things that you had on the shirt. What are we—
[00:38:43.030] - Neil Willis
God, family, country.
[00:38:44.400] - Marlie Andersch
Done. God.
[00:38:45.670] - Neil Willis
In that order.
[00:38:46.570] - Marlie Andersch
Family.
[00:38:47.270] - Neil Willis
In that order.
[00:38:47.850] - Marlie Andersch
Country. Awesome. I love you guys. Thank you so much for spending time with me.
[00:38:51.120] - Omar Dennis
Thank you, Marlie.
[00:38:51.700] - Marlie Andersch
Yes.
[00:38:52.280] - Omar Dennis
Appreciate you.
[00:38:58.770] - John S. Berry
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led where we seek to help Veterans build an even bigger, better future after military service. Unfortunately, for some of our Veterans, the roadblock to a better future is that they are not receiving all of the benefits that they earned. If you need help appealing a VA disability decision, contact Berry Law.