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Veterans know how to lead. The lessons we learned in the military form the foundation for bigger successes in business, entrepreneurship and community.
Host John S Berry, CEO of Berry Law, served as an active-duty Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army, finishing his military career with two deployments and retiring as a Battalion Commander in the National Guard. Today, his veteran led team at Berry Law, helps their clients fight some of the most important battles of their lives. Leading successful teams in the courtroom, the boardroom, and beyond, veteran leadership drives the firm’s rapid growth and business excellence.
Whether building teams, synchronizing operations, or refining tactics, we share our experiences, good and bad, to help you survive, thrive and dominate.
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[00:00:00.860] - Ashton Kroner
One in two males are going to have cancer in their lifetime, and one in three females are going to have cancer in their lifetime. However, with the Veteran population, it's anywhere from 20 to 30% more likely that you're going to develop cancer. We know that out of the three of us that are sitting here, one of you are going to have cancer, and Casey drew the short straw on that one.
[00:00:18.680] - John S. Berry
Welcome to Veteran Led. I'm your host, John Berry. Today's guests are Ashton and Casey Kroner. They're Marine Corps Veterans and the founders of the Veteran Cancer Network. Welcome to the show, Ashton and Casey.
[00:00:34.960] - Ashton Kroner
Thanks for having us. Thank you.
[00:00:36.820] - John S. Berry
You are both a Marine Corps couple, both out now, both Veterans, and now dealing with some of the residuals of military service. Tell us about that.
[00:00:50.120] - Ashton Kroner
It's been a bit of a journey, to be absolutely honest. I served eight years in Marine Corps, got out in 2015. Like So many Veterans that I've talked to, I know that I had struggled trying to find my purpose and place and ultimately ended up in the nonprofit world. But through that journey, realized that I had had post-traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury. That led me into the advocacy work, both national and international. Then through that, Casey has a little bit of his own story with behavioral health, but also physical health as well.
[00:01:28.280] - Casey Kroner
Yes. Once I got out of the military, I did four years and got out. I was very lost. There's no guide rails when you're exiting, you have to figure it out on your own. That led me to jumping around from job to job, being a support for Ashton while she pursued her nonprofit career. I ended up coming into some ailments post-service.
[00:01:52.640] - John S. Berry
I think it's important to recognize it, both of you were sergeant E-5s in the Marine Corps, both combat Veterans, and You find each other, you get together, you're pursuing that civilian life together, and then bam, you get hit with a diagnosis. Tell us about that.
[00:02:09.720] - Casey Kroner
About 11 years after I exit the military in 2010, I developed cancer. It came out of nowhere. It hit me really hard, and I'm living with the residuals post-remission, basically.
[00:02:23.560] - John S. Berry
Now, how old were you at the time?
[00:02:25.580] - Casey Kroner
I was considered pretty young for testicular cancer. It's a young man's cancer, and I was 34 when I was diagnosed with it.
[00:02:33.340] - John S. Berry
Now, I remember when I came off of active duty and then even coming back from deployments, there were health screenings and the sort, but the VA didn't catch this diagnosis, did they?
[00:02:44.980] - Casey Kroner
Not at all. I was misdiagnosed for four months, roughly, maybe a little shorter, a little longer, but not much. But I went to the VA ER, and they kept pushing the bucket. Hey, we'll monitor it. We'll wait and see. Come back if it gets worse. I did. Then I had to go to a civilian ER, and they were able to diagnose me instantly.
[00:03:08.980] - John S. Berry
Do you know the reason for the misdiagnosis?
[00:03:12.000] - Casey Kroner
At the time, from what we believe, is that there was no protocol because I fell out of the age range that usually they take serious, more of the prostate cancer and everything that usually men will get tested around 50. I was way younger than 50, so they thought it was back pain. They thought it was intestinal problems, other things besides cancer that was just not on the radar.
[00:03:38.540] - John S. Berry
Ashton, when you hear about the diagnosis, what are you thinking?
[00:03:41.860] - Ashton Kroner
First of all, I was in shock. He had been going back and forth to the ER, and actually, he had been googling his symptoms. You know how everybody always goes worst case scenario, don't look at Google and everything. He had been sitting there thinking, I think I might have testicular cancer. But it was one of those things that I was like, Yeah, right. Cancer you're too young. It's not going to happen to you. He had actually gone to the closest ER next to us after being discharged from the VA's ER. I texted him first thing in the morning because all of his severe injury with his back was happening in the middle of the night whenever he's laying down. So that's when he would go to the ER. I texted him first thing in the morning. At the time, I think he was four years old. Our son was laying next to us, and it was early in the morning. I texted him, and he texted back, and he was like, Yeah, I have cancer. And of course, I'm sitting there thinking it's a joke. I was like, Oh, ha, ha, ha. And he was like, No, actually, I have cancer.
[00:04:33.420] - Ashton Kroner
And he was just all nonchalant about it. So, me being the paranoid wife at that sense, I go and drop off our two German shepherds, my son, and I go over to the hospital. I'm like, this can't be happening. Why him? Why us? He's relatively healthy. It was more of a in-shock type situation. When I got to the hospital, I didn't like the hospital that he was at. I mean, it was the closest one to us But at the time, I was working at Rush University Medical Center at the PTSD program called the Road Home program. I already got to know a lot of the doctors at the hospital. I made the decision to basically switch hospitals to one that I knew and I trusted, and I could continue working and be there through his cancer journey, his chemo journey.
[00:05:20.280] - John S. Berry
As far as your mission, your life at that time, you've got a son, you're married. At that point, had you found your purpose or were you still looking?
[00:05:31.300] - Ashton Kroner
I thought that I found my purpose, but life has a funny way of throwing things in front of you. Casey and I, we decided that we always kind of go with the flow. But at the time, I was working at the Road Home program. I was the outreach manager. What we did is we basically worked with Veterans with behavioral health issues that they were uncovering, and I helped them get PTSD treatment at no cost at the time. I loved my job. I loved the mission. I loved everything that I was doing. I really enjoyed the nonprofit world. I really felt like I was making a difference while I was there. But that cancer diagnosis, like I said, it... Like you're going in, clearing a room, you throw the smoke grenade, and you You're disoriented and everything, and you end up coming out that door and you start thinking, there has to be something else. But this doesn't feel like the right calling for me anymore.
[00:06:24.580] - John S. Berry
This is where you decide that the two of you are going to start your own organization. Tell us about that.
[00:06:32.960] - Ashton Kroner
When Casey was misdiagnosed, we kept on sitting there thinking, there has to be something that is out there. There has to be a medical device or protocols or something that can be done. The very first thing that we actually ended up doing because he was misdiagnosed at the VA, we were looking at each other and we were like, We don't want this to happen to other Veterans. I had reached out to a former colleague of mine that worked at the VA that he had been misdiagnosed at. I basically said, Hey, this is what happened. He was misdiagnosed. He had gone back multiple times. Through those conversations with the hospital, we were able to actually change the protocol when it comes to looking at Veterans that are coming in with the same symptoms over and over, months at a time. I was really proud of that. But it wasn't until we moved from Illinois to Florida that I actually linked up with a completely different nonprofit out of Marion County, Florida, called the Vet Resource Center. They were doing some amazing work with multi-cancer early detection blood screenings. Through a company called Grail, they had a blood screening tool called The Galleri, a really great screening mechanism that actually tests the blood for basically the cancer cells that are shedding away from the blood.
[00:07:53.320] - Ashton Kroner
I just thought it was really fascinating. They asked me to join the board, and then I subsequently got Casey to join as Well, and I really believed in the mission. What they were doing is they partnered up with Grail for this blood test, and they were testing Veterans in Marion County, Florida for the simple blood test for over 50 different cancer diagnosis. I really felt like this is something that's going to help basically change how, not just Veterans, but everybody in general are getting screened for cancer. We started looking at a larger scale. How can we make this? How can we actually make a broader impact? While that nonprofit was focused on screening people in Marion County, Casey and I started having these conversations. It's like, we need to do more. We actually decided to start our own nonprofit, and it's called the Veteran Cancer Network. Our goal is... It's a couple of different goals, really. But ultimately, we want to be able to basically get rid of the age discrimination within the VA. The American Cancer Society, they've done tremendous work on cancer screening and the protocols that are out there, but it's all based on a specific age.
[00:09:14.020] - Ashton Kroner
What we realized talking through our own journeys and talking to the Veterans that we're encountering is that the post-9/11 generation are, one, more prone to cancer than that of our civilian counterparts. But two, they're getting diagnosed much, much later or much earlier in life, considering the Vietnam Veterans that are getting it later in life. We started realizing, Hey, there's an issue here. We actually decided that this June, actually, we started an initiative called Petal for Impact under the Veteran Cancer Network, where we're going to be bicycling from Jacksonville, Florida, all the way up to Washington, DC. Along the route, we're meeting Veteran leaders, organizations, VAs, anybody that's going to listen to us about this issue as make our way to Congress to talk about this specific issue on how Veterans are getting misdiagnosed from serious diagnosis.
[00:10:08.680] - John S. Berry
This is a really important point that most Veterans are not aware of. It's that there seems to be this Cancer happens to older people. It's like it's the old people's disease. But what you're saying is that Veterans, especially us, the OIF and OEF Veterans, we're more susceptible to some of those cancers, and the screening criteria needs to change to not be just based on age because of whether it was what we were subject to in OIF, OEF, the burn pits, the chemicals, whatever it is. There's something that is causing cancer at a younger age for OIF and OEF Veterans.
[00:10:44.800] - Ashton Kroner
Correct. Absolutely. Our narrative is that you have to look at the symptoms. A lot of the times the doctors are getting overrun. They have short times. You're in the waiting room, sometimes 20, 30 minutes after, if not longer for these medical appointments. They're not really getting enough time to be able to look at you as the whole person. When it comes to the Veterans, we have a whole slew of things that we're exposed to from everything. From the very first time that you step on a military installation, you're exposed to various toxins, the shots that you're getting put into your arms, the medications. Then if you deploy, whether it's on ship or if you are deploying in a combat zone, you are exposed to quite a few different toxins. Doctors need to be looking at the symptoms. That's where a test like Grail's Galleri is going to come in. It's going to be a tool to help use doctors' input, basically, on the symptomology versus the age. All it is a standard blood test. Our goal is to be able to get it put into the VA, a part of our annual health exams.
[00:11:48.250] - Ashton Kroner
I don't think that's going to happen right off the bat because we all know how the VA is. It's going to be slow rolling. But I think that's ultimately going to end up saving countless lives just by giving doctors the screening tools that they need because they don't have enough time in the day to see the patients that are being presented on their caseload.
[00:12:06.460] - John S. Berry
Now, have you gotten a lot of support from the medical community and the VA, or how has that gone?
[00:12:13.120] - Ashton Kroner
Yeah, no, we have. Actually, as soon as we told our partners over in Marion County, they immediately started making introductions to us. We have been in conversations with Graal. They are in full support. In fact, they're the ones that encouraged us to start our own nonprofit Profit, so they can support us a little bit more wholly. Rush University Medical Center, they're very excited to hear what we have going on. Nash General Hospital, they have a wonderful program called Homebase. We were meeting with them. Then Dana Farber, they are going to be very important to us on our Pedal for Impact journey because they have a grant that they receive from the DOD on basically partnering up with Grail on testing 1,500 Veterans. Unfortunately, they had to start with an age of 45. As long as they've served at least four years, been in the VA within the last five years, and they are 45 years of age, they will test Veterans, test their blood, basically, for this multi-cancer early detection test. We are getting a lot of support from these organizations. We really do hope to be able to get more because this is going to take a village to be able to sit there change the narrative on how doctors are treating and screening for cancer.
[00:13:34.980] - John S. Berry
One of the initiatives to raise awareness is Pedal for Impact. I'm wondering, and this is a bike ride from Florida all the way up to Washington, DC. I'm wondering, how did you come up with the concept?
[00:13:50.220] - Ashton Kroner
Casey.
[00:13:50.790] - Casey Kroner
Yeah, I'll take this. We were at the Military Influencer Conference in Georgia this last year where we met with a long distant cyclist, Denny. He went from California to New York just to bring awareness for firefighters with PTSD. We got to talking with him. He's like our mentor, and he was like, hey, if you're serious about this, a big ride such as Florida to DC, meeting with local leaders and Veterans and nonprofits and everyone in between to get the mission that, hey, Veterans need early testing and a risk-based assessment instead of age-based. That's kind of what really happened. We realized really quick that that little ride, that initiative, wasn't enough. That's why we had to start a nonprofit because this is a multi-year awareness campaign and advocacy that we're pretty much starting out on.
[00:14:53.140] - John S. Berry
I got to ask, are both of you riding in it?
[00:14:55.280] - Ashton Kroner
Yes. We'll see how we feel, but we've been riding. We took a little bit of break for Christmas, getting over the flu and everything, but we're going to be hopefully getting about 50 miles a day. Again, our big thing isn't just plowing through getting to Washington, DC. We really want to have real honest conversations with those in the community. We'll be stopping along the route to, like I said, meet with people to be able to sit there and talk about this, gather stories from other Veterans that have had cancer or caregivers with their Veterans that have had cancer to help get that. By the time we get to Congress, we'll be able to have more real life examples of who out in the community is there. Because one of the problems that we have seen is the lack of communication between systems. You have the DOD on the active duty and the guard side. Those that get diagnosed with cancer, they get put into a database. They're saying, Hey, these individuals get cancer. The Veterans that are using the VA, they get cancer, and I I believe the VA actually just created a database for cancer, but that's not shared between the active duty and the VA.
[00:16:09.400] - Ashton Kroner
But then we also found another issue is that civilians that are getting diagnosed or Veterans that are in the civilian hospitals that are getting diagnosed, their numbers are not getting shared with either system. It gets reported to the state CDC that, hey, there is somebody that had cancer, and that's if they identified as a military service member, a former military service member. We're seeing a huge gap in identification on this issue.
[00:16:36.460] - John S. Berry
And so, part of the way to raise awareness about the gap is the Pedal For Impact. Now, I want to ask this, both of you are riding. Have you signed up a bunch of riders, and how can people participate?
[00:16:49.780] - Ashton Kroner
We get asked that question all the time. We do have a few people that are saying that they're going to be riding with us. In fact, the executive director from Dana Farber, she's going to be hopefully joining us on our last leg. We have social medias and, on our website, as well, where people can actually help join the movement, either through donations or if they want to join us on a leg of the race. We're going to be in constant communication on our socials, and they'll be able to sit there and track us along the ride with that. But all they have to do is just go to Veterancancernetwork. Org and be able to send us a message, and we can sit there and coordinate with them. But it's going to be really easy. It's going to be long and hot, just so everybody knows. It is June of this year. It should be fun, but it's going to be warm.
[00:17:35.760] - John S. Berry
Got it. So Veterancancernetwork. Org, this June, Pedal for Impact, a starting where in Florida?
[00:17:45.880] - Ashton Kroner
We're going to be starting out of Jacksonville, Florida. June 13th is our kickoff.
[00:17:50.440] - John S. Berry
Outstanding. Is there a big kickoff event?
[00:17:54.080] - Ashton Kroner
There is. So American Legion Post 9, they're actually going to be having a big shindig over there. In fact, they're trying to do a steak dinner, I believe, that evening. We might already be on the road by then, but they are going to have a big party there. We're going to be basically just starting it. Well, like I said, it should be fun. But yeah, we're looking to have a nice kickoff there.
[00:18:19.620] - John S. Berry
As Veterans who are building a bigger, better future, trying to strengthen the Veteran community and get better medical treatment for our Veterans, you're obviously leading by example. That takes us to the after-action view, the examples of great leadership and poor leadership. Casey, we'll start with you. What is your one example of great leadership and your example of poor leadership? Can be military, civilian, nonprofit, medical. It can be whatever you've experienced.
[00:18:48.040] - Casey Kroner
I had this corporal when I was Lance Corporal in the Marine Corps. He never took accountability, always led from the rear, and it just made my time miserable at that point. I know my example of a bad leader is pretty much that, not taking accountability and not leading from the front. That's pretty much it. Going forward, that's what I look at as a bad leader in the civilian military everywhere.
[00:19:22.900] - John S. Berry
Outstanding. What was the great leader that you remember or who?
[00:19:27.680] - Casey Kroner
This goes into the cancer, actually. His name was Sergeant Rainer. He ended up passing away with stage 4 cancer about four years ago. But he always looked out for me. He was my mentor. If I had a bad day, he could sense it. He tried to make it better. I really appreciate everything he did for me. That's my example, is someone that looks after their troops or their soldiers or just friends.
[00:19:57.820] - John S. Berry
Absolutely. Ashton, what about good leadership and bad leadership.
[00:20:01.740] - Ashton Kroner
I'll start with bad because I always want to end on a good note. Actually, I have had the misfortune of working for some really horrific people, and that just made me as an individual. It was a lot of my civilian career, to be honest. A lot of it had to do with their integrity, not doing the right thing, especially whenever it comes to nonprofits. Some of them tend to get a bad rap, and it makes it bad for the rest of us, and it's so disheartening. A lot of it gets roughed up in money, unfortunately. They may have the best intentions. However, somehow the mission may get away from them. They get a little greedy on trying to come up with the best decision that makes them look good. In a sense, it puts the nonprofit in a negative way, which just hurts everybody around them to include other organizations. I think integrity is huge whenever it comes to any type of leader. If you're going to say something, make sure that you're doing what you're saying and you're backing it up. As for a good leader, I'm going to sit there and throughout my old first sergeant, who's Sergeant Major Gearheart, him and I deployed to Afghanistan together.
[00:21:12.080] - Ashton Kroner
But he was our company first sergeant on that deployment. When I think of a good leader, he embodies it. He pulled me up into the company office, which I did not want to do, to be absolutely frank with you. I thought that's where all the narcs go, to sit there and talk negative on everybody that's in the platoons and everything. But that wasn't the case. He saw something in me and thought that I would be good up there and push me to my limits. I was a radio operator in the Marine Corps and getting pulled up into the company office for a deployment. I'm dealing with embarkation. We're having to make sure that the family readiness team and everybody is supported. But anything that he asked me to do, he would make sure that I was... One, that I understood what needed to be done. But if I had questions, he was there. He was never belittling or just dismissive. It was actually teaching me on how to be that better person. When I got orders for... Actually, I had orders for a B bill at Recruiting duty, and he was a recruiter. He mentored me the first year, two years on Recruiting Duty to make sure I was doing what I needed to get done to help grow the Marine Corps.
[00:22:24.480] - Ashton Kroner
I mean, just all around, just wonderful, wonderful person, and definitely stuck to his values and his integrity.
[00:22:31.460] - John S. Berry
Now, here you are leading the Veteran Cancer Network. That's the great thing about being a Veteran is you get to take those leadership lessons with you, good or bad, and apply them and reflect on them, and then become a better leader yourselves. Then, of course, start to build something. And as you're leading by example now, it's one thing to say, hey, we're going to start this nonprofit. It's quite another to embark on this journey where you're going to be pedaling all the way from Washington, DC, all the way from Florida to Washington, DC. So, as you prepare for Pedal for Impact, and like I said, as things start to ramp up, I'm sure you're going to get busy, and it's going to become more challenging. That being said, that's usually when people want to help, is when they see that you're really committed. So once again, I'll throw there, where can Veterans learn more about your stories, Ashton and Casey? And more importantly, where can they learn more about the Veteran Cancer Network?
[00:23:32.980] - Ashton Kroner
Yeah, so go to Veterancancernetwork. Org. It has all of our socials on there. We are posting quite frequently. We actually just started our podcast as well. We're going to be sitting there sharing resources and basically, tips and tricks, things along the way, and more importantly, Veteran and caregiver stories. We want this to be a community. But all of that can be found on Veterancancernetwork. Org. All of our social handles, all of our information, how to be able to support us, It's all there.
[00:24:01.380] - John S. Berry
I want to end on this. For Veterans or Veteran family members out there who feel that their service member is not getting the right care, what's a good course of action?
[00:24:12.100] - Ashton Kroner
Yeah, that's a great question. I will say being persistent. Veterans, at least whenever we were in, we had that mentality where you just had to suck it up. You don't want to be a burden to others, but that is detrimental to your care, whether it's behavioral health or physical health. And so, advocating for yourself. I cannot sit there and say that enough. If you're a caregiver and you're realizing that something is off with your Veteran, advocate for them, go to the appointments, make sure that they have a list of questions. If they're anything like myself or Casey, I had to sit there whenever he was going through chemo. I had a book of basically all the questions that we had during the week because when you're in those appointments, it can get daunting. You can sit there and forget things. So, advocate for yourself and make sure that you're writing down your questions basically before you get to the appointments.
[00:24:58.960] - John S. Berry
Ashton, can you give us some just general stats about Veterans and cancer and how prevalent cancer is amongst the Veteran community.
[00:25:09.180] - Ashton Kroner
Yeah, of course. So first I'll start with the American Cancer Society and what they're putting out there. So, for everyday citizens, Americans or just around the world, one in two males are going to have cancer in their lifetime, and one in three females are going to have cancer in their lifetime. However, with the Veteran population or those that are in toxic environments, firefighters and so forth, depending on what study you're looking at, it's anywhere from 20 to 30% more likely that you're going to develop cancer just by being in one of those fields. Veterans, specifically, you have a little bit more to sit there and worry about whenever you're looking at Is this a tickle in the back of my throat or how long has this been here? You might want to go ahead and get tested just because of those stats alone. We know that out of the three of us that are sitting here, one of you are going to have cancer, and Casey drew the short saw on that one.
[00:25:59.280] - John S. Berry
The sooner the better. As far as we know from Casey's story, he did not get diagnosed soon enough because of his age. There are a lot of presumptions that there was something else. What can Veterans do who maybe think that they've been misdiagnosed?
[00:26:14.380] - Ashton Kroner
Yeah, That's a great question. When it comes to... Luckily, we have a wonderful organization called, I guess I call GRAIL, that they do the multi-cancer early detection test screening. It's a simple blood test. You can actually go to grail. Com and look at the galleri. It's G-A-L-L-E-R-I. You can actually request a test. For those that have Tricare, you can actually get it for free through Tricare. You may have to pay the upfront cost, but then you'll get reimbursed that through your insurance. But that right now is offered for you. But for those that are wanting to get tested, just for that security, that peace of mind and everything, you can actually reach out through us on theVeterancancernetwork. Org. We actually have, I want to say an informal partnership, but a partnership to be able to get that test from 9: 49 down to 6: 49 for you to be able to get that. It does give that security as well. What Grail offers is if you get screen and you screen positive, he'll get those results within 48 hours of them getting it. They'll give you a call, and then they're going to go a step further, and they're going to actually help set you up with an oncologist or a doctor's office to be able to solidify that, because this is just a screening tool.
[00:27:25.920] - Ashton Kroner
Now, let's just say the worst happens and you have to go through no cancer treatment. The good thing about having a team like Grail and the Veteran Cancer Network is that we have a plethora of resources to be able to have those wrap-around resources. Now, for those that have their doctors that say, hey, we don't think that you actually have cancer, Grail has that assurance where they will send you another Galleri test for free to be able to get retested just for that security and that peace of mind. If you test positive again, then you might want to get a different Consultant, basically, a different doctor to be able to take a look at that because there's a pretty high chance that you have that. But the biggest thing is make sure that you're continuing to ask those questions, get the screenings that are available to you through the VA, lung cancer, whether it's prostate, breast cancer, whatever it is, just make sure that you're getting those screenings that are offered through the VA at no cost.
[00:28:21.980] - John S. Berry
What I'm hearing is get screened. A lot of times it's free and then advocate for yourself. You got to Advocate for yourself because if you won't, nobody else will.
[00:28:34.540] - Ashton Kroner
Absolutely. Advocating is probably the one thing that we've learned throughout this entire journey is don't give up. Your health is the most important thing that you can have.
[00:28:48.040] - John S. Berry
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we seek to help Veterans build an even bigger, better future after military service. Unfortunately for some of our Veterans, the roadblock to a better future is that they are not receiving of the benefits that they earned. If you need help appealing a VA disability decision, contact Berry Law.