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Exploring the younger years and turning point moments of authentic, outstanding and inspiring people. See the world through the eyes of someone who may have grown up in an entirely different way to you.
Kate Lomas Podcast Transcript
Nina: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to When I Was Young, the podcast that explores the younger years of interesting people. This podcast is a chance to slow down and hear about the world through the eyes of someone else who may have grown up in an entirely different way to you. All stories are true and affirmed by my guests.
Nina: I'm your host Nina Fromhold, and today we will explore the younger years and turning point moments for the remarkable Dr. Kathryn Lomas. Kate is a biologist, entrepreneur, innovator, academic, and someone who thinks about our world in a unique way. She's the only person I know who asks questions like.
Nina: How does the New Zealand wetter hear, and could we [00:01:00] apply this hearing system to improve the technology available to humans? Or how does a whale use lipids for sound communication underwater? Kate looks at our natural world with awe and wonder, and then thinks about what we may have to learn from the systems that exist in nature that could improve the lives of people and communities.
Nina: Kate is currently the manager of Quantum and Advanced Technologies at the Queensland Government where she's using her experience founding a startup to develop policy to increase the rate of commercialisation of public funded research. Kate and I are both alumni of the 2016 Williamson Community Leadership Program, which was where we met and where we started our friendship.
Nina: When it comes to a new kind of leadership and considered risk taking, Kate is a standout. Let's meet Kate and learn more [00:02:00] about how she thinks and the journey her life has taken to get her to this place. Welcome Kate to when I was young, and thanks for being my guest today.
Kate: Thanks for having me, Nina. It's a joy to be here.
Nina: Let's start with a huge question. What's the bravest thing you have ever done and what happened?
Kate: I think the bravest thing I ever did was starting the company Hemideina, which was my first startup. I actually had to sell my house to do the startup because I had to work unpaid for two years. So the sale of the house covered my costs.
Kate: I was a single mother at the time, had everything to lose, but at the same time, by doing it, I had everything to gain. And so my thought was you only get one life and if you don't take these massive risks, you don't get these massive returns. Even though it didn't quite work out the way I planned, I still don't regret doing it.
Nina: And [00:03:00] what was Hemideina all about? What was the idea?
Kate: So the idea was a new type of Cochlear implant. We mimic the Weta hearing system, which is a New Zealand native insect. And I've spent a number of years researching how Wetas hear. They're quite unique in the way that they hear, and that's due to the fact of evolving in isolation from any predators and a bat that really just hunts like a rodent rather than using its echolocation to hunt.
Kate: So they have really sensitive hearing in the same frequency ranges as our human communication. It's a really simple hearing system, so by mimicking it, we were able to make a microphone that's low powered and incredibly sensitive, but also divided frequencies up. Microphones have to divide frequencies up before they process them, and that takes a few milliseconds, which in the world of sound can be a lot.
Kate: And so the idea was to have [00:04:00] an analog cochlear implant that had the timing information that's currently not in cochlear implants.
Nina: How remarkable when you think about that, to be able to take something from nature and then turn it into a mechanical device that can deliver the same kind of output. How many years did you spend working on this, Kate?
Kate: So Hemideina was founded at the beginning of 2017, so we had almost seven years with the company, which is actually quite remarkable. It wasn't the technology that let the company down in the end, we had really good success with the technology. And at the latest cochlear implant conference, it really does seem that going down the analog pathway is being revisited.
Kate: So it'd be really exciting to see if other companies pick it up and roll with it.
Nina: And along the way, you had some incredible successes. Tell me some of the things that you were awarded [00:05:00] and the acknowledgements that were given to you along the way.
Kate: I was shortlisted for the L'Oreal Women in Science Prize.
Kate: That was 2018 from memory, so it's quite a prestigious prize for women scientists. Hemideina was also named one of the top 10 startups in 2023 for our innovative technology. Off the back of the concept and the technology and the trials that we'd done, we were able to raise $20 million all up at its peak.
Kate: Hemideina was incredibly successful. The way I look at it, it was an incredible journey and I learned so much. My plan is to carry on with future startups and take all those learnings and make sure that the next one is more successful.
Nina: It's a huge, huge risk to take to create a startup and particularly a scientific and medical startup.
Nina: So when you think about this in terms of courage and bravery. What really stands out [00:06:00] to you, Kate, that was super brave from your perspective on going on this journey?
Kate: I think just starting it. Out of 10 startups that have been founded within the first year, nine have failed. Out of that one out of 10 that go through within the next five years, only one outta 10 of those would go past the five year mark, and we made it to the seven year mark.
Kate: I think just starting that journey, taking that risk. Putting everything on the line as a single mom and knowing that there was a really good chance I was gonna lose everything, but being okay with it. I don't wanna be one of those people that regret not doing things. I'd rather do it and fail than not do it at all.
Kate: I think for me it was just starting it. It took the most courage.
Nina: You know, we've talked about this in Williamson as well. When you actually fail, it's not a failure. It's an opportunity to take on a whole lot more knowledge and learning. That's something [00:07:00] I've certainly seen through you, Kate.
Kate: I heard recently someone say “the biggest asset you've got is your brain”, and it's so true.
Kate: I got a huge asset out of that journey that's gonna take me through and provide a future for me. Honestly, it was the best seven years of my life and I don't regret any of it.
Nina: That's so wonderful to hear. Well done to you, Kate. So let's go back in time now and explore your beginnings, because I'm interested to discover how you became the kind of person who could take such a huge risk.
Nina: So how did you come to be in the world and when and where were you born?
Kate: I was born in a little town called Thames in New Zealand. Little tiny coastal town. Back then it was farming and fisheries. It’s quite tourism based now. I think it only had about four or 5,000 people when I was born back in the seventies.
Kate: I've got a twin brother, Jeremy, and our mom was [00:08:00] only 16 or 17. Dad was the same age when we were born. We weren't planned, and it was back in the days when most unplanned pregnancies led to adoption. Being twins, the family decided not to do that. They didn't want to break us up. Mom and dad got married and we had a very stable childhood, as in being brought up by lots of extended family members and having a family that was very supportive.
Nina: And what did you see in your mom's journey from when you were a young girl?
Kate: Mom got pregnant at high school and she had plans to go to university, and she in fact even had a place at Auckland University, which was really hard to get at that time. So she had to give up all of her dreams to bring us kids up.
Kate: There was no such thing as social welfare payments in New Zealand back then. So she had three jobs. She worked full-time at the bank and she cleaned offices in the [00:09:00] evenings, and she worked at the TAB in the weekend. She went on to do her degree through Open University. We call it Extramural University in New Zealand, and it took her 11 years.
Kate: I watched her juggle two children, all these jobs, plus study and get this degree. That took her 11 years to get. I think even though she wasn't actively around a lot, she kind of parented by example because it taught my brother and myself that you don't have to accept the status quo. She didn't accept the status quo of being teenage parent that gave their life up.
Kate: She just did the life that she was gonna do anyway, it just took her a bit longer.
Nina: What a spectacular example for you to observe as you are coming up as a child. So while your mom was busy studying, who else was a special part of your world when you were little and how did you share time together?
Kate: I mean, obviously my twin brother, back when we [00:10:00] were kids, we were pretty much inseparable.
Kate: So we did everything together and I had my best friend Donna. She's still in my life, so she's still very close friend. And being the late seventies and eighties small town, we were allowed to run quite feral. I think we were always at each other's houses. We're always biking between each other's houses.
Kate: You didn't spend the weekends waiting for mom and dad to do something for you. You're out the house before they're even awake. Most of the time we were always up in the bush with our pet golden Labrador Kim, making huts and getting into fights with other groups of kids. I remember, one of the fathers made us pea shoots so we could shoot the other kids because they tried to invade our hut, things like that.
Kate: So it was a very relaxed childhood in the respect that we were very, very independent and self-sufficient, but we also very close to our grandparents. My dad's parents. My grandmother worked as a caretaker at the local primary school. So as really little kids, we would help her clean the classrooms. And one of our jobs was to scrape the crayon off the [00:11:00] prep rooms.
Kate: And our reward after day's work would be an ice cream on the way home, you know? And we were happy with that. I can't imagine paying my children an ice cream for a day's work. They'd kill me. No, we were happy with that. I know everyone always says this, but I do feel like we had a more simple childhood than kids today and it gave us that ability to think outside the square.
Kate: 'cause we were constantly doing that as kids running around this town.
Nina: So what else do you remember about your young life? What was your town and school like and how did you spend time outside of school?
Kate: So the town had three primary schools, a Catholic school and two public schools, one at each end of the town, and then there was the main high school that covered most of the Peninsula Thames High School.
Kate: I went to Thames South Primary School and actually it was the same primary school as my great grandfather. So have a very long family history of being in that area. I was in the same class pretty much all the way through with the [00:12:00] same group of kids. In fact went to kindergarten with those same group of kids. We were born in the hospital at the same time.
Kate: There wasn't much change as far as lots of kids coming and going. We tended to have the same group of friends all the way through, until I left with mom and dad. We left and moved to Auckland when I was 15. So for the first time, had to make new friends and move to a separate school at that age.
Nina: So coming back to Thames.
Nina: What would you say the expectations were like in that town and what was considered normal about what you would aspire to in life?
Kate: Maybe people think, I'm being a bit harsh saying this, but I don't think Jeremy and I had any expectations put on us. We weren't really expected to be exceptional. I don't think anyone really expected we would amount to anything.
Kate: We had these two teenage parents, you know, we're pretty feral kids, I guess at times. Neither of us were [00:13:00] particularly great at school, and not because we weren't smart, but because we just, we didn't try, we didn't have anyone at home telling us to do homework. I personally look back and don't think that we had any expectations on us, like some of my friends whose parents expected them to do well at school.
Kate: I don't remember mom or dad saying anything about my bad marks. I don't remember them going down to the school to say anything or talk to the teachers. So we were from a very early age, pretty resilient and self-sufficient in that respect. I think maybe that's what made us, because Jeremy is very successful person and you know, I did go on and do my PhD, so I think that no expectations almost gave us the freedom to be ourselves.
Nina: So let's follow up on your move to Auckland with your family. Do you remember what took your family there and what that transition was like for you?
Kate: Yes. So mum got a [00:14:00] job in Auckland that she wanted to take. So we all moved up there. And her and dad got divorced really soon afterwards. I loved it. I just absolutely loved the city, like I loved all the people.
Kate: I suddenly knew I could walk down the street and no-one even knew me or report it back to my parents, what I was doing. I loved the city and I felt for the first time I could really be myself and I really thrived.
Nina: And what about at school? Were there any teachers or staff that singled you out and supported you on your journey at school in a different way?
Kate: So not really that singled me out, but I did have a headmaster. Westlake Girls High School, it would match any private school for facilities and quality of teaching and things like that. I was very lucky to live in the zone and go to that school. I went to Thames High School and really nothing was expected of the girls at all.
Kate: I remember being [00:15:00] told not to worry about getting educated 'cause what was the point? We were kind of expected to be hairdressers or work in the local shop. There wasn't really any expectation for girls to go on and do anything. But in Westlake girls there was. And I remember going to the first assembly, and Mrs Gerner, her name was, she got up and she started speaking about how girls can do anything they wanted and how it was expected that we were to do our best. And I just remember sitting there going, oh my God, this is amazing. I just thought, this is right. This is how it should be.
Nina: So what else happened when you were 15 that changed your world forever, Kate.
Kate: So a drunk driver killed my auntie and my cousins. I mean, we were quite a small family. My uncle was really badly hurt. That really rocked our family. It certainly changed the way I lived my life. It's sounds morbid, but I [00:16:00] often don't leave the house with the expectation I'm coming home. It's not a conscious thought, it's a subconscious feeling, you know, like I often will get to the end of a big drive and think ahhh I made it.
Kate: I don't know if everyone thinks like that because I know it can happen to you. And so when you know that. You're not one of those people think it's never gonna happen to me. You are one of those people that go through life going, it could happen to me today, could be my last day, and I'm gonna make most of it.
Kate: And I think maybe that's where my high risk appetite comes from. It's not that I don't expect to live a long time. I do. I do expect to live a long time. That's not what this is about. This is not even about expecting to die. It's just that feeling of you just don't know. So let's just make the most of what we do know, and that's right now.
Nina: So bring to life for me the relationship that you had with your auntie, uncle and cousins before this [00:17:00] accident. Kate, what was your family dynamic like?
Kate: We had a close relationship. You know, it was a small town. We all lived in this small town, so Kirsty was eight and Hamish was 11. Me and Jeremy were a little bit older than them.
Kate: Jeremy and Hamish did a lot of sailing together. Charlene would often look after Jeremy and I, so we'd often spend Saturdays at their house. So it was a big hole in our lives, the whole family's life when the accident happened, and even though it was so long ago, I still often think about them, wonder what would've happened if the accident didn't happen, and what would they have grown up to be like?
Kate: I'm really close to another cousin Tanya. So maybe having more of that would've been really good, but you've just gotta make the most of what you've got really.
Nina: Grief is a strange journey to go on for any of us. And losing so many loved ones all at once would've been really quite [00:18:00] devastating, especially because you are only 15. So what do you remember about how your young self found her way through this grief?
Kate: I didn't eat very well. So I think control of food was definitely a way of dealing with the grief. If I look back, which of course when you don't eat properly, you can be a little bit emotional and probably not the nicest person to be around sometimes.
Kate: Just as I went through that period, I tried to focus on the fact that I had a life, so I was gonna make the most of it.
Nina: And do you feel like in some way you living your life in this very courageous way is in honour of your loved ones?
Kate: Oh, I definitely think so. I had a really close friend die, you know, while I was a teenager.
Kate: My brother had one of his best friends die when we were teenagers. So it's about everyone that doesn't get to grow up, doesn't get the privilege of getting to their fifties. I am in contact with someone at the moment who's got [00:19:00] terminal cancer at 22 years old, and I feel like it's almost shameful not being proud of saggy skin and wrinkles because we get to have saggy skin and wrinkles.
Kate: And I know we forget that sometimes that I don't expect everyone to be all like, oh look, it's fine. You know, be grateful you're here. Not at all, but just sometimes you've gotta pull yourself up and go Be grateful. Be grateful that you've got saggy skin and wrinkles. Be grateful. You got to do a journey that maybe did or didn't work out, but you got to do it.
Kate: Being grateful. I really believe in that.
Nina: And when you think about those times, do you remember any family or friends stepping forward and giving you a hand in a way that you really appreciated?
Kate: Yeah, my best friend Donna, she was there all the way through. She's always been an amazing support to me. I remember I was single mom with my first kid at university and went down to visit her, and I got back home, opened my door and she'd stuck [00:20:00] a $50 note into the door.
Kate: I really needed that money, but I don't know, she really could afford to give it to me either. She's just that kind of person and, 'cause we've been friends since beginning of primary school. We know each other inside out, and often we'll go a couple of years without even talking to each other and then we'll see each other and it's back to exactly how it is now.
Nina: You grew up in the 1970s and eighties with a twin brother. When you think back now, were your parents rules and expectations the same for boys and girls, or were they different?
Kate: They were a hundred percent different. Mom, not so much. I don't think mom's expectations of either us were different, but for my dad, definitely. There was definitely an expectation of Jeremy was gonna be successful and there really just didn't seem to be any kind of interest in what I was gonna do or anything.
Kate: I remember when we got our driver's license. Back in the days when you get them at 15, 16 and quite easily. And [00:21:00] we both went for our licenses at the same time. And you know, I carefully drove around the course and stopped at every light and did all the right things and passed. And then Jeremy just zoomed around like he always does and failed.
Kate: And I remember on the way home him saying, don't tell dad I failed my license and get home and dad's got a car for him. I said to dad, where's my car? And he said, oh, you don't need a car. Your boyfriend's gonna have a car. I didn't have a boyfriend. I think it was the end of it. I think dad and his age group, maybe they're the end of it, where it was so obvious.
Nina: So are you suggesting that the kind of sexism was really normalised with the way that your dad thought about the world?
Kate: Yeah, a hundred percent. No one was surprised, we were surrounded by it, especially in a small town. Not so much in Auckland, but definitely in Thames.
Nina: So what aspects of your identity were becoming clear to you as you became a young adult, and what [00:22:00] did you decide to do with your time?
Kate: It was pretty clear I didn't think like other people, and I know a lot of people found me quite strange. So I went to art school, I did photography. I always wanted to be a wildlife photographer. My uncle Rory had given me a camera when I was a child, and I'd always had a camera on me ever since. There really wasn't many avenues to get a qualification.
Kate: Really. It was go to art school or go down to Wellington, do one of the journalist courses. Wasn't really much around to study wildlife photography. The feeling was just get out there and do it. So I went to art school and I did two years art school. I never finished my degree, and then I moved to Canada and actually started working on my portfolio as a photographer.
Nina: Amazing. So what were you doing in Canada?
Kate: I went on one of those working visas, and so I worked in shops, I worked in ski lifts and I [00:23:00] spent a bit of time up in the Yukon working and living on Indian reservation, and in my spare time, just photographing. Also got a job assisting a wildlife photographer out of Anchorage through the summer, and that was really cool.
Kate: Just really worked on my portfolio. Back then, you had to have a certain number of really, really good photos before the photo agencies would take you on. There wasn't the social media platforms that we have now that you could kind of do it off your own back. You had to prove yourself. I think it was at least 20 or 40 photos, and to get 20 or 40 perfect, perfect photos takes time.
Nina: Especially because this was the time before you could digitally edit your photos.
Kate: Oh yeah. These were film and that, when I say perfect, it was perfect through the lens as it was taken.
Nina: And I believe around this time there's a cheeky story about getting a job as a ski instructor. Would you like to share that story?
Kate: Oh yeah. So we [00:24:00] went to Banff National Park to get jobs working on the ski fields, and I hadn't really skied. Me and my brother had gone skiing one year in New Zealand and I remember him saying to me, look, let's just go to the top and I reckon by the time we're at the bottom, we'll know how to ski.
Kate: And I just remember there was some blue runs and so I went and I applied for a job and you have to be able to ski to work on the ski fields, well, at least in the lift jobs. So they asked me what level of skier I was. I had no idea about levels of skiing because I'd not really skied much, and so I said I'm a blue, which actually means intermediate.
Kate: So I got a job and my job was to check the ski lift in the morning before opening the lift. So I'd have to go up the lift and then ski down on the fresh powder, which if you're a skier, that's like the dream job. If you've never really skied in your life, it's probably not.[00:25:00]
Kate: I did it though. I sort of managed to work out how to do it and I actually was an amazing skier by the end. I was doing moguls and I still ski to this day regularly. I try and get my kids on the mountain every year. Yeah, I was an amazing skier at the end of the season and I don't think anyone really picked up I couldn't ski, 'cause there was really no one around.
Nina: So your risk taking nature paid off.
Kate: Yeah.
Nina: So you traveled a lot when you're in your early twenties. Tell me about the job that was the absolute most fun?
Kate: Working on the Indian reservation. They put up this camp, so we all camped and the Yukon River was running through.
Kate: They did provide toilets, but there was no washing facilities. We had to wash in the Yukon River, but the Yukon River flows really fast, so you couldn't really go above your knees because you just kind of feel like you're gonna get swept down the river. We were 500 miles from the nearest town, so Whitehorse [00:26:00] was about 500 miles in one direction, and Dawson City was about the same in the other direction, so we're right in the middle.
Kate: The job was every day we would go out and we would look for Morel mushrooms, and it was just when the internet was coming, people really starting to use the internet and the local Indian tribe were selling the Morel mushrooms to really top end restaurants in Europe online. So we would collect the Morel mushrooms and then get them weighed, and we'd get a payment at the end of each day.
Kate: Though Morel mushrooms only grow after a fire during the summer up in the Yukon because lightning starts to fire, so they're all natural. At one stage, we were surrounded by about five fires. It's a real natural part of the ecosystem and how it works. A lot of the Europeans would carry guns. Obviously there's a lot of bear activity up there, but we didn't carry guns.
Kate: You know, I had a few run-ins with bears, but I got really friendly with the chief [00:27:00] and some of the other elders, and they taught me about animal behaviour. So how to avoid conflict with the bear if you came into conflict with it. Most of the time, if you're behaving in the right way, the bear will actually avoid you and you won't even know it's there.
Kate: And so that got me really interested in animal behaviour rather than just photography. So that's why I decided to go back to university. I wanted to do a Zoology degree, but they didn't exist by the time I went back to university, so I did a Biology degree.
Nina: So from that experience on the Indian Reservation, it created that curiosity in you to expand your education there?
Kate: It was just so interesting just knowing the behaviour of the animal and how you can interact in the environment so you don't have to shoot it. It doesn't have to get stressed and attack you. It was really interesting and the knowledge that those people have of their environment is just incredible.[00:28:00]
Nina: Sounds like it was a real privilege to learn from them.
Kate: Yeah, it really was. I have been keeping track of them and they're actually one of the only self-governing Indian reservations in Canada and they were able to do that off the back of that business. So they made a lot of money and they became quite independent.
Kate: Very similar to what we see Maori do in New Zealand with their Iwi businesses. Give the land back and let them run it. They can have these businesses and then create wealth and education within their communities.
Nina: Reminds me of a recent conversation I had with another friend who mentioned that in his belief, self-determination isn't possible without economic power because if you don't have that economic power, you don't even get a seat at the table. You're saying a very similar thing here, I think.
Kate: Yeah.
Nina: I wanna bring you back just a little bit more because I believe there's some stories about you in your twenties working on cruise [00:29:00] ships. Do you wanna bring this time to life for me?
Kate: Yeah. So after I finished in the Yukon, I've got a Greyhound bus from Seattle all the way to New York and then landed in England with $50 in my pocket, and that was it.
Kate: I luckily had a friend who I was able to crash on their couch. Back in the nineties in London, you could pick up temp jobs really quick. So I literally had a job the next day. And then this advert came up for photographers to work on cruise ships. So most of the photographers on cruise ships are hired out of England.
Kate: So I was lucky. I was the only New Zealander at the time on the whole fleet of World Caribbean ships. So I went and worked on cruise ships. I was assigned onto Rapsody of the Seas as my first cruise ship, and she was brand new, so we had to go to the ship yard to help fit out the photography labs and do the maiden voyage with her. She was gonna do a maiden voyage from France to New York.
Kate: But after we left the [00:30:00] shipyards, I looked out the window and we'd stopped and we ended up back in France the next day because there was some dispute and some of the shipyard workers had sabotaged the engine base of the ship and she had taken on a lot of salt water, a lot of damage was done to the ship.
Kate: So we had, I think about a month stuck in France while we waited for the ship to be repaired before we did the maiden voyage again.
Nina: And how did it go the second time, Kate?
Kate: The second time was good. When I say it was just staff on board, there were 500 staff. It's a huge ship. And well, it was great 'cause we got to eat in the dining room because the chefs were testing out all the meals and the waiters were practicing and everything was run like there were passengers, but there wasn't.
Kate: Something happened about halfway across, and I remember it was quite late at night and the captain came board and said, we are down to one engine. There was some problem with the ship. We were crippled. Oh, and we are just drifting across a Titanic right now. And so I have this photo of black water, which apparently [00:31:00] the Titanic was directly below us.
Kate: We limped into New York and then the media came on board and we took them down through the Panama Canal.
Nina: So the ship was fixed and able to progress from then on?
Kate: Yeah, it got temporarily fixed. I think we did a few months’ runs on it. We did the Caribbean season and then I think we did some of the Vancouver season.
Kate: Then it had to go back into shipyards. We all left it early and I got moved onto another ship.
Nina: So at about 28 you were back in London after your cruise ship adventures and you met a fellow at work. Who was handsome in a Colin Firth kind of way. Now, what was the best thing that came out of that relationship?
Kate: That was my ex-husband. We met when I was working at Swiss Bank. I was there for the merger with UBS, so we became UBS and that was really exciting time actually to be working for Swiss Bank through that merger in London. And I met Brian and [00:32:00] I had my first son with him. We got married and we moved back to New Zealand.
Kate: Unfortunately, the relationship didn't last, but I got this lovely young child out of it and who is now a lovely young man.
Nina: And at about this time that your marriage was coming apart, what was it that you'd realized you needed to do with yourself?
Kate: I think that's when I went back to university and did that biology degree I was talking about earlier.
Kate: I just decided that's what I wanted to do. I remember the first time I walked onto the Auckland University campus, I just thought I'm at home. Ollie went to the university crèche and yeah, I just felt like Auckland University was my family. I loved it.
Nina: Tell me about how you managed to be a full-time mom and study for eight years while Ollie was growing up.
Kate: So I was really fortunate. Helen Clark was the Prime Minister of New Zealand at the time, and [00:33:00] there was a program for educating single mothers. I think the main objective was to really get more teachers and nurses into the system, but they allowed me to do a biology degree under the scheme, so my fees were paid for and I got a single mother's allowance to help me live.
Kate: I think I also had my daycare subsidised as well.
Nina: At the university?
Kate: Yeah, at the university.
Nina: What did your life look like?
Kate: Well, I was really just studying properly for the first four, I think. 'cause there was three years of the undergraduate degree, and then the first year of masters was exams and stuff.
Kate: But after that, it was more like working as a scientist with second year of masters and PhD. I had a year between my undergraduate and master's while you wait for your marks to come back and apply for the next thing and for the cycles to start. So I worked in the IT department at the university between, I was able to save money [00:34:00] when I did that.
Kate: That helped buffer when I was there. But I honestly look back and don't know how I did it. I think I just studied and looked after him. I remember like after last exams, a big treat would be to buy a magazine on the way home because I would have time to read it. That sums up really what my life was.
Kate: Everything was as soon as he was in bed, you were doing assignments and studying for exams and tests. I made sure I never missed a lecture, so we were on the bus, every morning at seven o'clock to get into the university. We had to live quite far out of the city 'cause I didn't have very much money. And sometimes if I was studying for exams, other people on the bus would read stories to Ollie and help, and Mom helped as well.
Kate: She looked after Ollie a lot. My stepdad looked after Ollie a lot. Yeah, I definitely had help.
Nina: So when you finished your Master's in Biology and biological sciences, you were left with a question that you wanted to research for your [00:35:00] PhD. What was the question?
Kate: So, my master's was really about do native New Zealand insects hear ultrasound, given our bats hunt on the ground?
Kate: The answer is generally no they don't, although not all of the insects have been studied or most of them haven't actually. But the ones that I looked at, no, they don't hear ultrasounds where their counterparts overseas do. While trying to answer that question, I studied the New Zealand tree Weta whos hearing system quite in depth and I realized that it was quite unique and I couldn't really work out how it worked, and so I really just wanted to work out how it worked.
Kate: I loved doing research. I remember my first day of my PhD was actually at the University of Maryland in the US, and I remember turning to the professor and saying, can you believe we get paid to do this? When I say I get paid, I had a full scholarship to do a PhD, so it wasn't like a wage, but I was being paid enough I could support myself.
Kate: I also [00:36:00] did teaching as well on the side to help support myself.
Nina: So when you think back now, how many times have you taken risks and significantly changed your world?
Kate: There's been a few. I spent most of my twenties overseas. I didn't go back to New Zealand until I was pregnant with Olli, and then I gave up a very lucrative job up to go back to university.
Kate: So I suppose that was a risk. And I actually had to sell my house. 'cause I couldn't make the mortgage payments and do university. So again, I chose giving up assets in return for experiences. And I often think, oh, I don't have as much as other people, but I think what I have is what I wanted, which I've always gravitated towards.
Kate: And that's life experiences. I suppose that was a risk, right? Going to university as a single mom. Then once I got my PhD and I worked for a little bit, we had the new government, John Key came in and really stripped back funding for science and [00:37:00] scientists in New Zealand. There really wasn't any avenue for me to stay in New Zealand and work as a scientist, so I ended up taking a risk and moving away from my family and taking Olli when he was just 12 years old to Melbourne.
Kate: I had only been to Melbourne once before and that was for a weekend. I actually thought I was gonna live in a small town outside of Melbourne because the address said Parkville. It didn't have Melbourne at the end of it. So when the taxi driver took me into the middle of the city, that's how prepared I was.
Kate: I mean, it's ridiculous. When I think back on it, I was like, in Australia, they don't put the main city name, and I didn't realize that. And I just loved Melbourne again, but I didn't know anyone didn't know a single soul in Melbourne. Me and Ollie and the dog. We had to build our lives from scratch, and I suppose that was a risk, right?
Kate: I finished at CSIRO and started Hemideina. That's another big risk. So then I went from a scientist to an entrepreneur and a business [00:38:00] person, again, sold a house, you know, worked really hard to get to that point, and then risked everything. I'm at another point in my life where I've changed everything again, because with the way it worked out with Hemideina.
Kate: I really felt I needed a fresh start. I had a lot of trouble dealing with the betrayal that happened through that business, and it really hit me hard, probably harder than anything that's ever hit me, and I found it very hard to pick myself up and I'm good at picking myself up. I think Nina and I doing the Williamson, one of the things we had to do at the end of it was say what we thought of everyone and nearly everyone put on their little tag about me.
Kate: She's resilient. And my first thought was, why did I think I'm resilient? Like why do I have to be resilient? I didn't have to be resilient, but I am. It's not because bad things happen to me, it's because I'm always putting myself out there. And it's taken me a long time to realise that about myself.
Kate: Actually, I'm the one making all these decisions that sometimes lead to good things and [00:39:00] sometimes don't. So then after Hemideina, I packed up and I drove up to Brisbane and I started again up here. And you know, again, it's been a nice, amazing decision and probably one of the better decisions I've made in my life.
Kate: But what I have done this time is I've balanced it a little bit more appropriately with my age. I feel how close to retirement I am now, and I now have a stable income and job, and I'll do the startups as side hustles and not risk everything anymore. So I'm not sure what risk looks like for me in the future.
Kate: It certainly doesn't look like what it did in the past.
Nina: And there's one thing that came through in that period of time as well, whilst you were in Melbourne and you had the opportunity to have another son. You wanna talk about that?
Kate: Yeah. So I met Natai's dad and he is a really fantastic person.
Kate: Unfortunately, the relationship didn't work out, but we are on very good terms with each other. And I had a baby at 43. That was [00:40:00] unexpected to fall pregnant naturally at that age. I don't feel old and I don't think I look very different to the other mothers at the playground. Yeah, I've got a beautiful little 10-year-old half aboriginal boy.
Kate: Having him and his dad in my life has opened me up to the Aboriginal community and being part of an Aboriginal family has been a really lovely experience. I was just up with my sister-in-law on the weekend at her house. They often say, oh you’re family. Earl's mom recently died. In fact, it was actually her funeral last Friday.
Kate: She would ring me at least twice a week since I've been up here to check on me and things like that. So I think I've been very fortunate to have this lovely extended family in my life and this lovely support network in Queensland and that I guess to experience that as well, which is amazing.
Nina: I'm so sorry about your recent loss, Kate.
Nina: When you think back now to the young girl growing up [00:41:00] around Hahei, what did your little self think your life was gonna be like and how does that compare with the adventures you've had?
Kate: I always thought I was gonna be successful. I don't know why. I remember wagging school and laying on a rock in the river dreaming with Donna, talking about how successful we were gonna be.
Kate: Like we were doing everything possible not to be successful. We weren't going to school, we were smoking. I always just thought I was going to be successful and I don't know if necessarily if I have been, but one thing I can say about myself is I've always kept trying. Maybe the fact that I haven't given up is a type of success.
Kate: I was never gonna be the wife, the homemaker. That was pretty clear, even as a small child, and most of my family and friends were surprised when I turned up in New Zealand with Olli. Then they were surprised I was actually a good mother. I had a number of friends and family say that to me, but not now with Natai, because you know, [00:42:00] it's clear.
Kate: But I've never been status quo. I guess
Nina: I'm pretty sure that's why we get on Kate.
Kate: But you know, my worst nightmare is having a house and a husband and two kids and a dog. Like to a lot of people, you know, they feel sorry for me because I don’t have it and I'm feeling sorry for them because they've got it.
Kate: So we're all different. Right?
Nina: You've talked about your resilience and some of the really challenging things that you've experienced over your life. When you think about the things that support you in those hard times, what are they for you?
Kate: I've got a lovely, lovely family. My grandfather was a huge support. He died unfortunately during the lockdown.
Kate: That was really difficult. I never thought in a zillion years I wouldn't get to go to his funeral. I had to be there through Zoom, like a lot of people were in that position. It was really hard. He was always amazing. My mom has just been a pillar of strength and support [00:43:00] my absolute whole life. I've got really nice family.
Kate: I've got an amazing cousin up here in Tanya. She's just so positive and she just won't even let you say a bad thing about yourself. If we don't think externally, but think internally, I think what's got me through everything is I'm just an incredibly positive person. I'm just someone that believes everything's gonna be okay.
Kate: I believe it through to the core of my being. Even when I'm at the lowest, lowest, I still know I'm gonna get through it. And I think that is because I've been through it, like I've been through it, I've done it, and I know I can do it again, so I'm not scared of it.
Nina: So let's flip it. And what have been your experiences of intense joy?
Kate: This is gonna sound really superficial, but one of the best ones was the first time I've flew business class to LA. Turning left on the plane was amazing. [00:44:00]
Nina: What was the best bit about it, Kate?
Kate: It was just having those big seats and being able to lay down and not be stressed about what's in front of you.
Kate: Like having to sit up and be overtired and have someone leaning into you the whole trip and the front seat coming down in your face, you know, all those thoughts go through your head as you sit down in the economy, right? You're thinking to yourself, God, I've got 15 hours. I hope the person in front of me is not gonna lean into me.
Kate: Hope the guy next to me is not gonna start leaning across or fall asleep on my shoulder. You just don't think that in business. You just get in your seat with your glass of champagne and you're all good to go, and then you land and you're like, oh God, are we here already?
Kate: I mean, obviously getting my PhD ceremony was amazing, having my children, I remember looking at Natai. I was really sick after Olli was born, so I didn't have this experience with Olli, but with Natai after Earl had left after his birth, and it was the [00:45:00] evening. I was going to sleep, and I just remember laying there, just looking at him, just thinking how beautiful he was, you know, looking at his little toes and I just spent hours just watching him sleep, you know, looking at his little hands and fingernails and just so happy.
Kate: I had this little guy in my life at a time I never thought I would have an opportunity to have another child. And the first time when Hemideina bank account had a million dollars in it. I've still got a screenshot of that. That was the point of time we actually thought we'd made it. Now I understand it still can go pear shaped after that, but back then I didn't know that and I thought we'd made it. So many really wonderful highs.
Kate: I think I'm someone that gets joy from the small things. Like one of my favourite things is going home and going down to the beach and that first dive into the waves, into that clear, beautiful water of the Southern Ocean. I get real joy from those things. I [00:46:00] joke about the business class, but really the real true joy is sharing a really good bottle of wine with a good girlfriend and having a really lovely chat about the stuff of life.
Kate: Last night, I just for the first time started working from home one day a week. So I was able to log off at five o'clock and we grabbed the basketball and we went down to the basketball court, which is right on the river, and me and Natai played basketball. When he got his first hoop, you know, it was so exciting, just being privileged enough to be able to do that stuff.
Nina: Yeah, it's pretty beautiful. So when do you feel most peaceful and content now?
Kate: All the time. Ever since I've moved to Brisbane, I feel content and peaceful all the time. I really love this calmness that I have in my life.
Kate: I try to get up at five every morning now because I read the book The 5:00 AM Club, and there's a real peace in the morning when you just wake up and you've got an hour where you just don't have [00:47:00] to do anything. No one else is awake. That's the time I feel the most peaceful. Brisbane's such a laid-back city that it's a pretty calming place to be, to be honest.
Nina: Is there anything you wish someone wise had told you when you were 18? And would you have listened?
Kate: My nana said something to me, and I say this to everyone and it's really stuck with me, and it's the nice wisest thing anyone's ever said to me, but I did listen and she said, Kate, you've got two choices in life.
Kate: You can either laugh or cry and it's up to you which one you do. And I just live by that. She said it to me when I was a little kid, and it's so true. I think it is a choice to be happy or not, no matter what your circumstances are. And I say this from a little bit of a place of privilege, like I'm not starving.
Kate: I'm not living in a bomb area. I live in a very beautiful city on a beautiful river, and I have a roof over my head and my kid goes to a great school. I understand that. But I think for [00:48:00] those of us that do, we have that choice.
Nina: Thank you, Kate. Thank you for being my guest today and for sharing your incredible journey often about taking that detoured path to arrive at exactly where you need to be.
Nina: From a small town where aspirations went as far as getting a job in a local business to world-leading thinking in science and innovation, and now you're supporting the next generation to thrive and still pushing those boundaries of what we know technology can do, all whilst being a loving mom and a dear friend to many.
Nina: In her spare time, Kate has a bunch of innovative projects that she works on and plans to bring them into the light for us over the coming years. So all power to you, Kate. I hope your next big project has impacts all around the world, and that I'm here to witness your many moments of success. You have been listening to When I [00:49:00] Was Young, an exploration of the formative years of authentic, outstanding, and inspiring humans.
Nina: I'm your host Nina Fromhold, and this is a Memory Lane Life Stories production proudly made in Naarm, Melbourne, Victoria on the traditional lands of the Wurundjeri people. We have new episodes and guests each month. If you've enjoyed this episode, please follow the show to hear more of the series. Thank you for listening.