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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the Grazing
Grass Podcast Episode 118.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: get
involved with some local farmers that
are doing it or find someone, even if
you have to drive an hour or two bounce
ideas off of guys that have been doing it
Cal: you're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories
of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's show we have Cody
Carr of Carr Family Farms.
Cody is 9th generation
in Monroe City, Missouri.
He has an operation including mixed
grass and crop farm that's integrating
cattle and sheep into the cropping
rotations while converting crop
ground back into native pasture.
It's a really good episode.
We talk about his journey, a little
bit about his cows, a lot about
his sheep, and native pastures.
It's a really good episode.
I think you'll enjoy it.
First, let's jump in 10
seconds about my farm.
And for it, we have decided not to bale
any hay this year, which is always great.
Dad and I've discussed it for years.
We did go one year without baling
any hay, but a little bit of stress
finding hay and getting it here.
So we went back to baling hay
earlier this year, Dad was
willing to buy hay if he could
get it for the right price.
So, We've stayed off our hay meadows,
but we've been watching hay price
and trying to decide what to do.
And dad just talked to the custom
baler just a couple days ago, and
um, we're able to get it in our
barns cheaper than what we thought.
So we are not baling any hay.
Which is great news for the hay
meadows because they get abused
because we take that hay off and
then we feed it other places.
So I get to graze it now.
So actually I have more grass
to graze than I anticipated.
Obviously, if I'd been holding
off of it thinking we were going
to hay it, it's much more mature
than I'd like for it to be.
But , that's a problem I'd rather
have than not having it to graze.
So we'll see how that goes.
, I'm excited that it gives me more
grazing days and maybe I can manage
it a little bit better and get
us further into the, the year.
Enough about my farm.
Let's talk to Kody.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Kody, we want to
welcome you to the Grazing Grass Podcast.
We're excited you're here today.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Thank you, Cal.
I appreciate you having me on.
I've listened for quite a while and
I'm pretty excited for the opportunity.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Wonderful.
Kody, to get started, can you
tell us a little bit about
yourself and your operation?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah
I live up in northeast Missouri
Monroe City is the town's name.
We're about an hour and
15 minutes north of St.
Louis, or the outskirts of St.
Louis.
20 minutes west of Hannibal and
36 if you know where that's at.
I am a ninth generation
agrarian in northeast Missouri.
A fifth generation on the farm ground.
We're still on my mom, my grandpa
and myself own about 550 acres of
mixed between row crop and pasture.
We've been converting more to
pasture the last couple of years.
Yeah, so I moved home in 2021
after my dad passed away.
So that was really I'd been involved in
the farm for quite a few years, but really
opened the door after, after he was gone.
Mom didn't want to run the whole thing.
So I came
back and on about half the
ground started taking it over.
But yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Now, Kody, prior
to coming back in 2021, did you grow up
thinking, Hey, this farming is great.
This is what I want to do.
what were your thoughts
as a kid about this?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
I really always like being
outside and playing on the farm.
I probably wasn't the most excited
about doing the farm work at all times.
I enjoyed cattle.
I,
don't love sitting in tractors.
I do a little, I do some row cropping
that I live in row crop country.
So it's just a reality for us.
But the livestock in the
grasslands were always my favorite.
So at the time I was looking to get
away and do something else because I
didn't want to have to sit in a tractor.
And then, yeah.
Full circle, I spend a lot of
time in machinery, but I, I get to
sneak out and play with, play in
the pastures quite a bit too it's
pretty fun.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712:
And I have to concur.
The livestock was always my favorite.
Hayden season.
I hating season was the only
time in my life that I'm happy
I have an asthma and allergies.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
That's a good out.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah, and it
got me out of a lot on haying season.
In fact, it caused my parents
to get a cab tractor, which
took some of my excuses away.
But we were just, we just had a
family get together for Mother's Day.
And my brother was still
complaining about how I didn't
help as much in the hay pasture.
And here we are, a few decades later.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Seriously, yeah I've got a younger
brother, and there's always comparison,
we're, there's 11 years between us
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh, yes.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
we're always comparing how the
two of us were raised, cause
there's quite a few differences.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
And completely on a
tangent, we have a sister.
So my brother is 22
months younger than me.
So two years, almost two years.
We have a sister that's
seven years younger than us.
So she's the baby and the
only girl in the family.
So we feel like we really were mistreated.
Now dad gets tired of hearing that.
And he's, Oh, you guys weren't mistreated.
We weren't, but.
It's fun to complain about it.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Oh yeah, yep.
Gets everybody started up
at family events, I'm sure,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: oh yeah.
Yeah.
I pride myself on being able to make my
brother and sister mad in half a second.
Anyway, enough of that tangent.
Kody, when you, did
you go away to college?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: I did,
yeah I graduated high school in 2012 went
to the University of Missouri, studied
plant sciences That's I got to school,
and I've got a couple friends I got hooked
up with and realized I wasn't the only
weird kid that really liked grass, so
that, that probably started the addiction
for me A couple of buddies and myself,
we got into native grasses and talking
about how to work within our community.
Our ecosystem better ecological
context for our area.
We would have
historically been oak savanna, tallgrass
prairie obviously a lot of row crop now,
but I was always interested in doing
like habitat restoration and that kind of
stuff and tying in the livestock to that.
That, yeah, college opened
some doors in that area, or I
guess helped me grow my network
with some friends but yeah, that's, I
spent some time down there, my wife,
she's from my hometown we got married
while we were in college, and both of us
graduated in 2016, and decided to move
back home to the farm her family raised
they had a commercial hog operation, and
She came back home to work on that,
and I started working at a local co op.
up here and just helping on
the side on the family farm.
I rented about 40 acres from
my family at that time for
pasture.
But that was our foot in
the door getting back home.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
Then in 2021, you really started
helping a lot more there.
Tell us what you're doing on your farm.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
yeah, so we're a mixed operation.
Like my wife and myself she
runs the hog side of it.
I really don't have, I don't
have anything to do with that.
She's great at that.
I run our livestock, grass
based livestock and row crop.
We farm a little over 500
acres of row crop about.
That's just a hair less than
300 acres of grass ground.
We have 230 ewes that we run on cover
crops and some perennial pastures.
20 head of cows of our own.
We run anywhere between 40 and
80 contract cows on a given
year, depending on the grass.
But yeah that's what we do
on that end of the operation.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: When you
went back in 2021 were cows and
sheep already on the operation or
were they an addition after that?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: We
had, my mom and dad had about a
hundred head of cow calf pairs.
That's gotten whittled down.
I'm not counting those into it.
My mom still has 210 acres she lives on.
She runs a herd of cattle.
We culled back quite a bit on the
amount of cows we had for her.
Just, easier for mom.
She's put in a water system on her
farm and quite a bit of infrastructure.
So she's dialed it back to about 50
head of cows, letting grass recover.
And as the system's coming online, she'll
probably continue to grow it from there.
But we always had livestock.
Like I said we were bounced
anywhere between 90 and 110 head of,
or pairs of cows.
But big part of our operation
for quite a few years.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: What brought
you to adding sheep to your operation?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: My
wife, she grew up showing sheep.
I always said we wouldn't have any.
And at
one point in time, she thought
we needed five for the kids.
They were smaller, easier to work with.
And I, she talked me into
getting sheep and I probably
annoyed her ever since then.
Cause I've became obsessed
with them cause they just, they
really fit our operation well.
So I took it and completely ran off the
deep end with it, so we had about 340 head
last year before a drought hit and we cut
back a little bit.
As we're bringing pastures back online
through, from converting crop ground,
but yeah, that, that's, she's the one
that got me to drink the Kool Aid on
the sheep, whether she wants to admit it
or not, and I yeah, they're probably my
favorite animal to deal with now, but,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: You know there's
that joke always about chicken math,
one plus one equals ten or something.
So it sounds like sheep math got you also.
Yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
yeah, it goes from like 5 to 50
to 300, and it just keeps, yeah,
it doesn't stop for some reason,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: yeah.
So when we think about your livestock,
we're talking your cattle and your sheep.
How do you manage those?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: So
we've got a rotational grazing system.
We've been putting paddocks in.
I'm trying to think.
When I started out with my cows in
that first 40 acres, I had somewhere
around 18 or 19 different paddocks.
The sheep currently, I run
them inside of net fencing.
A lot of times I'm on crop ground
with no perimeter fence, which
sometimes is good, a good experience.
And other, I can tell you
some horror stories on that.
Thankfully, they normally stay off
the neighbors and just eat my crops.
But,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah,
so I give them anywhere depending on
the grass supply, a half acre to an
acre and a quarter a day as far as that
UFLOC goes and sometimes multiple moves.
Hoping to eventually get the
infrastructure in on the place I
live on to where I've got five acre
paddocks and I can subdivide from there.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh, yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
but we try to move them every
day to two to three days.
This time of year with my day job and
being in the field, I, some of the
farms I rent we dial back to where
we're probably moving weekly on cattle.
I'd like to be better
about it, but it's just a.
time issue on getting to them.
We had direct marketed some meat
the last couple years into St.
Louis.
So we are grass fed and grass
finished as far as that goes.
I stepped out of that this year
just for the row crop side and
workload at my day jobs
picked up a little bit.
So we dialed back as far as going
down to the city every weekend
to a farmer's market, but I'm
still doing some online sales.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: One, one thing
that immediately jumps out to me is your
rotation or your duration on a paddock.
You're moving them a little slower
than a lot of people talk about.
And it's you've got to do those
daily moves or you've got to
move them closer or more often.
I think you bring up an excellent point.
You're working off the farm, so you
have to move them in relationship
to that off the job or off the farm
job, because, we can complain about
those, but they pay a lot of bills.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Yep, they do.
When you pay down some debt with and
let the livestock just take care of
themselves, you can make a lot of headway.
So
I first year back from when after
my dad passed, I worked myself into
the ground trying to keep up on
those daily moves and everything.
And
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Just
had to have a little reevaluation
about, we're going to give up
a little bit on the grazing.
Just to be more effective with our time
rather than a grazing efficiency thing.
I'm hoping to get back to that
someday, but we're not there yet.
The infrastructure has got
to be there first, but yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: And two things
you touched on there, or two things I'm
going to expand on just a little bit.
Your physical and mental health is
so important, because when we talk
about farms, we talk about farms being
profitable, so they can be sustainable.
The other side of that is, if you're
wearing down yourself because you're
burning the candle at both ends it's
not going to be sustainable long term
for your body, for your mental health,
so you've got to do what works for you.
And the reason I'm harping on this
just a little bit, I feel like we're
all the time saying, do daily moves.
Really, what is your context,
and what are you doing?
You don't have to go crazy and And just
work yourself raw just doing daily moves.
There's other ways to manage and you
don't want to leave them there too long.
So you're doing rotational
overgrazing, but
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: the
end of the day, a little bit of
rotational overgrazing is better
than overgrazing a whole place.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Absolutely.
Yep.
We're still seeing a lot of
the benefits we were when we
were moving them every day, but
yeah, like I said, if you have
the time to move them daily,
I won't argue with
anyone on that, but yep.
Yep.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Now, you talked
about, you would love to get down to
where you've got five acre pastures and
then subdivide them as you move them.
I assume that's a long term plan and
as you work towards it, how are you
putting those in and planning those?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah, so
we've converted some ground out of row
crop that doesn't have any perimeter
fences around it or it's, it's a
proportion of a larger row crop field.
So there's a perimeter
around the whole farm, but
trying to break it up.
So we're adding heights insulin.
We've been playing around some
of the timeless fence posts, not
to give them a plug or anything.
It's just,
that's seems to work well with the sheep.
We've been running some three to
five strand high tensils, testing
to see what we can keep them in
with inside of a place we're getting
down to three, three strands.
I've got a couple spots.
Out in the middle where there's no fence
for a mile and a half, two miles, we've
got some five strand stuff just to make
sure it's a little more beefed up and
that's actually where my sheep are
currently sitting on a piece I'm
going to plant the corn hopefully
when it stops raining here.
I don't want to say that out loud because
we went through a drought last year but
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yes.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: but yeah
that's what we've been doing you know
weekends or winter time I do a lot of
fence work when we're not in the field or
not as busy at work at the co op but yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Now one thing
you mentioned there, so you can get
them down to about three strands, and
you've got them in this piece that's a
little bit further, and you've built a
little beefier fence there, five strands.
Are you keeping your cattle
in the same area, or are you
managing those as two separate
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: I
have it.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: flocks?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Currently, so on the farm I live on
there's 150 acre farm that I live on.
It's actually right.
I have 10 acres in city limits
of Monroe city, and then there's
140 acres outside of city limits.
The sheep and the cows
work together on that farm.
We have another 190 acres down
the road that, that has been row
crops since, see these sheep are
the first livestock on that farm
since the 1970s, they used to bring
hogs over to it.
This is the first, We've had
livestock back on it, so I
haven't brought cows over.
My grandpa's still a little
skeptical on the whole, there's
a row crop farm, there's a
livestock farm that can't be both,
even though he grew up on the,
yeah, the duo farm, but he's
coming around to the idea.
I think that five strands beefed up
enough, I would be pretty comfortable
running cattle in it especially
as long as it's hot and there's,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh, yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
But yeah to this point, we haven't
taken any cattle over there with it.
I think I finished building
that fence right around the
new year this last winter.
It's relatively new, but
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: As you're
building these fences and stuff,
what are you doing for water?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: I
haul, that, that's another reason
we take sheep on a lot of farms.
We don't have the cattle.
I've got some hay, old hay wagons
that we've got tanks on so I can
haul the wagon out to the field.
Sheep obviously have a lot
lower water requirements.
So while we're converting some of these
row crop pieces or fencing off these row
crop pieces I, it's a lot easier on me by
having the lower water need by the sheep.
If I was trying to keep water in front of
cows, this time of year with temperatures
picking up I'd be chasing them constantly.
Some of the other farms we had put
some wells in trying to run pipeline to
where we've got access points from the
row crop ground to for the livestock
while we're grazing cover crops.
But yeah that, that's long term.
We'd hope to have a well or a
pond or some kind of a water
source that we can pump from.
But,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: right.
But that, but having a portable
water there for sheep, like you
mentioned, so much easier than if
you were doing it for your cattle.
And that's a great way to
get started on a place.
If you don't have a good water
source, you can bring water to sheep.
And you mentioned, right
now, about 230 ewes.
How much water are you having
to take water every day?
Or you have a big enough tank, it's
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: It's,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: a week?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Yeah, I think last summer I had
a big tank in front of them.
I'm trying to think.
So I was grazing some sorghum
sedans, sun hemp, and sunflowers
behind some wheat on one farm.
I want to say I filled it up
every two to three weeks and we
actually had 340 ewes in that group.
That, like I
said, before, before we, we, with
the drought last year we culled
down a little bit just to make
sure we had plenty of winter feed.
It was probably every two weeks
that I was feeding them and
it was drought conditions, it
was 95 degrees, they had shade
It was a rougher farm, a rolling farm,
so there was some tree cover, so they
weren't out in the sun all day, but a
thousand gallon tank over a, I want to say
it was a two week period is what we were
getting at, so the it was pretty pleasant
to fill up and drag around because it
was just I drug it from one paddock to
the next, I think we were doing four or
five day moves on that particular farm
just because it didn't have any
infrastructure, yeah, the sheep really
fit some of those farms that don't have
infrastructure well because you, as
long as you can keep them in a fence
or building up enough of a temporary
fence to keep them in, you can get
livestock impact on places that most
people wouldn't let you bring cows to.
They seem to feel a little more
comfortable with sheep being
out there is what I've noticed
from some of my landlords.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Go on
that topic just a little bit more
on a musing I have that I keep
thinking how to figure this out.
I see all, everyone
around here's got cattle.
And I look at those pastures and
I'm like, sheep could get some
benefit out there and could help them
with some weed control and stuff.
And I've tried to think how I
could structure a lease just for
sheep grazing on those places.
Of course, you gotta be very aware
and convinced that landowner, the
cattle person, that you're not
taking forage away from their cattle.
So I haven't figured that out.
If anyone out there in listener land knows
or is doing that, I'd love to hear more.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
You might talk Greg Christensen
up he's out by Lacey in Kansas.
I don't remember the exact town.
He's at, my brother in law
used to live out there.
And he's a Grandview Livestock on YouTube.
He, I
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Yes, I watch his channel
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: he does
some of that on, he takes some sheep
on some farms that other people run
a cattle on to clean, clean up sheep.
He may have goats as well, but he'd
be wanting to talk to you about
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: I think
I've seen on him or I've seen the
goats portion of it and goats I
think is a little bit easier argument
because goats can go into brush and
change the looks of that when cattle
are not getting into the brush.
So yeah, but that's interesting.
I'll have to look.
I know I watch him on YouTube sometimes.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
Yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
Let's talk a little bit
more about your sheep.
We're in the middle of lambing right
now, so it's on top of my mind, sheep,
and trying to figure out more about it.
How, or when do you lamb them, and
how do you manage during lambing?
Because for me, that's always an issue.
Now, I'll, I'm trying to do daily moves
I've slacked off of that more during
lambing, and in full transparency, I don't
do daily moves with my sheep all the time.
But, when I move them up close to the
house, For lambing, I start tightening a
rotation up and moving them more often.
I have to be careful about lambs
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: moms.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
That, that's one thing I was going to say.
I've struggled with a
little bit this spring.
Just like I said, so coming out of
a drought, I've been trying to rest
some of our perennial pastures.
So I took them out to some rye that
doesn't have any fence around it.
Started lambing on the
rye and moving the sheep.
daily to every two days,
depending on the paddock size.
I've had some bonding issues.
I would so partially talking about
those five to five acre paddocks in
the future as far as wanting to do that.
I'd like to be able to do more of a
drift lambing system to where every
two or three days you bring them up
from the rear so they didn't really
have time to bond with their mom.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh Yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
I'm not there yet.
I'm just talking to some other guys
that are doing a more of a system like
that and then get back, whenever you're
through lambing, get back into that
tighter rotation as far as parasite
management and grass management goes.
But yeah so lamb, I'm lambing, I'm right
in the middle of lambing myself right now.
I just moved them into a 24 acre
piece that was, it was stockpiled
summer annuals last year.
Got some volunteer wheat
and stuff coming up
and just for that reason, let the
sheep dampen down, have a chance to.
Rebond with their moms.
I'm hoping to keep them in
there for a week or two.
Before I take them back home to
some other cover crop ground.
But that, that is one.
Yeah I've done, I've always moved
them pretty frequently with lambing.
I think that's one change I'm going to
make after the last two to three years.
I've had a few more bottle lambs and
I think I should be having.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Been there.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Bottle lambs are cute, but
yeah
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712:
they are so much work
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
they're high maintenance.
Yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah,
they're cute for the first 12 hours.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
And then I've got some in my yard
and anytime I crack the door, they
come running because they think it's
time to feed.
Yep.
but,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: there
completely agree now with your lambing.
Are you doing You any tagging or
working of your lambs, or when do
you do any type of work with them?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: I
don't currently, just, it's the same
reason I try to keep my hands off as
much as possible through this window.
I'm sure if I was running a purebred
operation, I couldn't do what I do.
We're just a commercial flock.
But no, I try to keep these
hands off as much as possible.
You get closer into that August window.
I'll start peeling off some
of the bigger ram lambs and
probably do it August, September, we
start weaning all the ram lambs off.
We don't we don't dock tails.
We don't castrate.
I'm a pretty lazy sheep farmer.
I, I say if I can find a low
maintenance way to do stuff
I'm, yeah, I'm all about it.
So
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: want
to help you out there, Kody.
You're an efficient
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: yes, yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Because,
efficiency is laziness with good PR.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
That, that is true.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Yep, I'll roll with that next
time someone asks me, yep,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: the same thing.
Granted, if I was running registered
animals, I'd have to do something
different, but very Low maintenance,
hands off, except one thing I have, or one
issue I have, I try and raise my own rams,
and then I want to be careful
because I want rams that are twins
or triplets, and not singles, and
when you're weaning them later, the
nicest looking rams are singles.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: yep,
and that is one I should have said.
I do try to mark it's like the first,
15, 20 ewes at lamb, I try to mark
some of the, if they have twins and
twin rams, I do try to mark those.
I know I've actually got a group,
like the first 15 ewes at lamb this
year, I've got separated off just.
Before I hauled all my sheep over to this
other farm, they had already had lambs,
so I've got them partially separated.
So before I regroup everybody back up, I
will probably put some tags in those just
so I know to pick rams out of that group.
Just some of the mob breeding principles.
Just, you want to
have early maturing ewes,
early maturing rams.
Yep.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: I
really like that idea and I
hadn't even thought about it.
I had thought this year
I might ear notch some.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: but,
like I've mentioned on the
podcast, I'm really quick.
I can catch them if they're just born.
But if they're over like 15 minutes of
age, actually it's a little bit more.
I can go probably a couple hours.
I can't catch them.
So, and then, Yeah, and then you don't
want to interrupt that bonding period.
So I had thought I'd get them in at 24,
48 hours that you're not some, and I'll
be honest, the efficiency of myself got
ahead of me and I didn't get that done.
So I've thought about going
out there and some use.
that I know are older, that's been in the
flock a long time, I'd mark some of those.
But I really like your idea of taking
those first few that's lambed and
marking those so you can pick from them.
Because like you said, you want to pick
from the early maturing ones, the ones
that are lambing early in the cycle.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
Yep.
So there's definitely some higher
fertility going on there or something.
Yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712:
talking about your sheep, what
breeds are you working with?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
So yeah, we're currently, we're a
little bit heavier on Easy Cares,
which are Kain, doper, and Romanov.
They are, they're a little bit wooer
than I, I like, but they're supposed
to be a higher fertility breed.
The other ones we run are hopping
composite, which they would've
came not too far from where
you're at.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: from Warner.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Okay.
Yeah.
So those
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: or Wagner?
Either way, it's
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
Yeah.
It's down in Oklahoma and those
I've really, they're harder to find.
I've got a couple contacts that I've got.
through to Jeremiah Markway is one
that he's raised them for years now.
And I, when I first got back into sheep,
I went down and visited him and just,
he is a, they're really nice flock.
So
I've been pretty pleased
with the hopping composite.
That's the Rams we run
are all hoppings, but
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh yeah.
I've seen photos of them.
I haven't seen them in person, but
I've heard good things about them.
I've also heard about the easy
care sheep and enough I've looked
into it, but I can't find any
that are relatively close to me.
Oh
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: and Iowa.
I had to go north to find most
of those were the hoppings.
I could go to Southern Missouri and fine.
So I'm in the middle of both of them.
So I guess it worked out.
Okay.
So yeah, but
the easy care isn't done.
Pretty decent.
I was curious how they'd handle the
heat with the wool, but they seem like
they've done pretty decent in the summer.
It's as hot as last year was.
I was pretty pleased with
the way they performed, but
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh yeah.
And do they?
So they don't shed completely, but
do they shed enough that it's okay,
or are they carrying full wool?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: it's I
don't know what breed to compare them to.
Their bellies slick off
pretty decent and it's like
halfway up their back.
It seems like it, their,
the wool starts there and
goes up.
If someone wanted to shear them, I'm
sure that would probably benefit them.
But they seem like they've handled
it decent until I, I have an issue.
I'm probably going to just let them
I'm going to delete with the hopping
genetics, hoping we get a little
bit of our own composite up here.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh, yeah.
Just continuing on breeds,
talking about your cattle.
What kind of breeds are
you working with there?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: yeah,
so my mom's running South Poll bulls
on her operation, just a solid red.
Low input animal.
It really fit what she's done.
Myself August Horstman's kind of
beating my head the corianna thing.
So I've got some coriannas and I'm
putting,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: that, too.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
yes they fit my budget.
That's the best part about
coriannas.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: I agree, yes.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: And we're
putting obrick bowls on those coriannas.
For our grass fed market.
But yeah that Obrick, that's,
I think it's A U R B A
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh,
yeah, I know what you mean.
Yes they're wild type coloration
in that they're that brownish
with a darker front on them.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yes.
Yep.
They, and they I know when bulls
mature they really, with testosterone
coming on, they darken up on the front.
They look similar to a bison,
almost with a coloration
pattern.
And the cows are just a
real I don't have any cows.
We've just got our first batch of
cows out of an Obrick bull, hit the
ground on some Corian as we've got.
We're hoping to keep back crossing and
kind of grade up eventually to some
Obricks, just something different.
And I like weird stuff.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh yeah,
I struggle with that too.
I'm just glad my wife
struggles with it as well.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: that helps.
Yes.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah, so on
those bulls, were you able to get them
locally, breeder nearby, or did you
have to go quite a ways to get them?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
So one, I've got a, I guess he's
six and a half, seven years old.
I, I got hooked up with a gentleman
that had, he was the breeder.
I don't think he runs them anymore.
I guess Darren Unruh was his name.
He seems to know everyone that's got him.
He's
been really good resource to, I
started bouncing questions off of him.
I've tried, I reached out to a couple
other people and he had a bull out by
Kansas city, so I was able to get that
bull relatively close.
And then I have a younger pulled
bull that I picked up from Minnesota.
Yeah.
So I, I drove a little ways for him.
The horn bull is pretty
impressive specimen.
I got to say that
there's nothing wrong with the polled one.
Just the horn bull that Darren had
bred is, yeah, if you look up, if
you read any Johans Eitzmann and the
whole inherent fertility and sexual
dimorphism, he really shows it.
So I'm excited to have him on the farm.
So hopefully
he sticks around for a couple of years.
And he was getting a little older, but,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Very
good yeah, hopefully he does.
What made you go with that breed?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
I just want a heartier animal
that can perform on grass.
I know it's like the Cory anything
like so they're cheaper to get into,
but I think having a little bit of
that in the background can help on.
They handle heat, they can handle
insects and other stressors.
We've got a lot of Kentucky 31 fescue
up in this area of the country, just
like other people do.
So we fight, a lot of the issues
that come along with fescue.
The bulls, I think,
complement those cows well.
come from a region of Fra haven't
really been tampe don't feed
a lot of grain this region.
The one it's a cooler region,
but they handle it well.
It's believe.
So I shouldn't s cool.
It's just a higher year in the
drought, that Fescue years.
I saw a lot of conventional
cattle struggling with fescue
last year and it seemed like these bulls
and the coriannas just, I won't say it
didn't affect them, but they handled it a
lot better than some of the other stuff.
Like even
some of my mom's conventional cattle.
Yeah,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: And that'll be
interesting to see how this project goes
for you and how they work out for you.
I've seen pictures of the breed
I've read a little bit about
them, but I've never been.
next to one.
Always, and to be honest sometimes
on those French cattle, not to pick
on the French too much, but sometimes
those French cattle are a little crazy.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
they can, yep.
I, my, my grandpa on the car side brought
in some limousine back in the eighties
and I've heard a lot of stories on,
and there's a reason we didn't run any
continental cattle for a lot of years.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh yeah.
That's true.
Now, you mentioned last year
that you had grass fed some beef.
Did you also grass finish some
lambs as well and direct market
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah, yep.
Yes.
Yep.
So we fed, I don't remember the exact
number, but yeah, so we sold it like St.
Louis farmer's market.
Just testing out, see how that would be.
And it went a lot better than I expected
for, I'm green on that end of it.
And I got a lot of irons in the
fire, so being, I'm fairly organized,
but it can always be improved.
It, but yeah.
We marketed, eight, eight to
10, H 12 lambs through there.
In addition to some of the cattle
we were selling in it, I was pretty
pleased with the reception of land.
There's a lot of younger people,
my age that, they didn't grow
up in a house eating land, but
they were trying it and they
kept coming back especially, they'd
test out ground land and then they
would venture into some lamb chops or
some leg steaks or something and seemed
to do pretty decent every time I had
land, but it didn't last very long, so
that was a nice surprise.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: one thing you
mentioned there, it sounds like you
were selling it by the cut as well.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yes.
Yeah.
So we, we did some, we did a couple
of whole lambs, but for the majority
it was by the cut down in Lake St.
Louis.
We sold quite a few whole,
whole beefs, half beefs
But the lamb for the
most part was by the cut.
But yeah.
Yep.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: And you
mentioned a lot of irons in the fire,
so you're not doing that so much now.
Do you plan on doing some later on
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
And it
Is something we want to continue to do.
We're actually working with
Barn2Door to get an online website.
I'd like to do drop sites and
take some stuff down there.
It's just a nice little side income to the
farm.
It's just fitting it into the schedule.
Currently, like I said, the row
crop side and we picked up some
more pasture ground this year
that we weren't really expecting.
We've been pretty fortunate.
We've had some older neighbors
retire wanting to slow down and
just giving us some opportunities.
So I want to make sure
I do a good job on that.
So I had to let something go and
being down there every Saturday, but
I get a lot of work done on Saturday
mornings and when I'm sitting at
the farmer's market, it
doesn't happen always.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: but it is
something I want to get back into because
I enjoy talking to people from the city.
There's a disconnect from
the rural areas to the city.
The more we can tell
our story and get on the
same page with them, that's the best
thing we can do as far as PR and ag.
And I don't care if it's conventional
or regenerative, but we've gotta
be our own voices in that spectrum.
But yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah, no just
continue on that, working in an education
system for a number of years, I used
to always tell 'em, if we're not out
saying good things about ourselves,
no one else is gonna say 'em for us.
We have to get out there and say
those good things, form those
connections, because a lot of times
there's some negativity that comes,
and negativity gets spread so much
easier than the positive stuff.
But we've got to be out there saying
it, we've got to be meeting the
public, building those relationships
and connecting them back to the farm.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Yeah, absolutely.
'cause yeah, like you said, no, no
one's gonna do it for us if we don't do
it.
And there, there's so few
farmers on the land anymore.
We've got to rebuild those bridges.
I know my, my in laws are pretty
involved in a lot of organizations Farm
Bureau and National Pork Producers and
stuff.
And that's one thing they've done
a really good job of kind of, I,
it's probably something I didn't
appreciate as much as when I was a kid.
You want a farm to hide from people.
That's one thing I'm trying to be
better at is, telling our story.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh yeah.
I think those stories are so important.
Hence the podcast.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: yes, yep.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: when you'd
mentioned there's got a lot of row
crop land, you've got some pasture.
Have you worked on converting any
of that row crop land into pastures?
Or are you keeping them pretty separate?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah, when
I was in high school and my dad started
this, so I got to give him full credit.
He always said he was a cattleman
stuck in row crop country, and
I've probably taken that vein.
I'm trying to think of the acreage
split, but the majority of our
ground originally was crop ground.
We're really fortunate.
We've got four soil types and 550 acres.
So it's we've got some
really uniform, nice farms.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh, yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
thankfully, like I said, the ancestors
picked a pretty good area to settle in.
But yeah, so we've been converting some
since I was a kid I'm trying, sorry,
I'm trying to think of that split.
We're somewhere around like 220 acres
of that 550 that we own is in grass now.
And before we were probably
only somewhere around 160.
So my dad started it back when I
was in high school and college.
And then I've done a couple
conversions the last couple of years.
Like 2021, we did another 24, 25 acres.
Have cool season fescue, orchard
grass, and some red clover just some
tame grasses.
And the last year and a half, I've
been working on doing some native
restoration, just because, for multiple
reasons, like I said, I'm an eco nerd,
on the, I'd like to have a little bit of
what was here back in the day, because
those genetics are adapted to our climate,
our, the drought last year, I watched my
fescue shut off about April 15th to April
20th, and I had some Indian grass that's
just Naturally been creeping back in.
That was just plugging.
And I'm not saying the yield wasn't
reduced on the Indian grass, but I
still had something to graze there
when the fess ski was just done.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: so that's
an area we've been focusing a little
more the last couple years and plan
on doing some more restorations there.
But.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Actually, let's
just go ahead and dive into that, Kody.
For our overgrazing section, we're
going to talk about native restoration.
And since we're already here,
let's just dive deeper into it.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
So like I said, that is something
I've been interested in.
I've got a friend from college.
He really, I always liked native grass
since yeah, just spent a lot of time
reading about it when I was younger.
And he's probably one of the
sharpest people I know on that.
So I always bounce ID
questions off of him and yeah.
We're always trying to figure out
how we can make our pastures more
productive without just pumping more
fertilizer and more inputs into it.
I think a lot of that is getting some
native grass native plants back in there.
So we started with five and a half acres.
I put some eastern game of grass
in a, ended up drilling it.
I was going to try to put it
through a corn planter a big
Started with that as my base.
We've done some big blue stilm.
This last year I did 13 and a half
acres and I was actually walking
it last night with my cousin.
I think it was eight or nine
different species, but swissgrass,
big blue some pale purple coneflower,
a gray headed coneflower just
getting some forbs back in too.
Depending on the conditions, we're in
the fun area of the country that we
catch, we're flooding out right now.
We were in a severe drought last year.
We have really hard freezes and then
we'll have 80, 80 degree days midwinter.
So the more diversity I think we get
out there in those pastures, the better.
And like I said, the, those natives are
just, they've been through it before.
They've got 10, 000 years
of evolution in these
areas that, Kentucky 31 fescue or orchard
grass that they're not adapted to here.
They're good quality forages and
they've got their benefits, but.
The going forward I'd to eventually get to
where we've got about a third of our grass
acres in, in perennial native grasses.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh, yeah.
As you think about those native
restoration, and you've also done
some where you've converted some,
crop land into Kentucky 31 and
orchard grass and other stuff.
Is, do you prepare the land in a
different way or is it basically
the same process for both?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
I'm trying to think.
Both times we just drilled
into existing crop residue.
I play around with no till quite a bit,
going back to the whole irons in the fire.
It's just, it's efficient to go
across the ground and plant it.
So we've got a no till drill
and the county office has a
no till native seed drill.
Going out, occasionally you
can burn down with a herbicide
or you can graze really hard.
I had an accidental experiment last
year with the game of grass that
worked out really well at the co op.
We had a mix up and someone treated an
entire box of wheat that didn't need
to get treated and they were trying
to find a spot to get rid of it.
So I said I need a nurse
crop for this native grass.
So we drilled the weed at 250, 300
pounds per acre way, way too high,
but we were just trying to burn
it up.
And I went in and drilled the
gamagrass into it, which in, these
native seedings are, it's really
important to keep the weeds back.
Cause if it swallows
them out, you, rather than taking a one
year establishment, you might push that
to a two to three years to actually
have an effective stand out there.
And in the grazing world,
every dollar counts.
So we really
want to get those stands up
to snuff as quick as possible.
That wheat actually did a really good job.
I grazed it three times with my
U flock in the spring between
March 15th and April 30th, before
the game of grass had germinated.
And then I got them off of it, and
the wheat stunted out maybe about
12 inches tall, and it suppressed
the weeds all the way to August.
So I got Pretty decent stand of gamagrass
underneath that, using it as a nurse crop.
Like I said, it wasn't
my original plan, but we just tweaked it.
But I try to cut back on as
much chemical as possible.
It's a really good tool, but I just,
if I can get away without playing with
chemical, I'd like to use, nurse crops and
some other crops to get these stands up.
But,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Expand upon that
just a little bit about a nurse crop.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: is
it and what's the goal there?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: So a lot
of times like a nurse crop, you would
take oats or wheat or something, and you
would mix it in the grain drill at the
same time that you're putting in whatever,
whether it's a cool season introduced
species or a cool or warm season native,
you'd put it in at the same time.
It's going to germinate sooner in
the year and it's going to just
help smother weeds keep those new
seedlings from getting beat up,
whether it's deer running through
or hail or something, it's just
it's a, it's like a nursery.
You're,
taking care of some little baby plants
Doing what you can to make sure they
get the best start in life because the
better start you get, the better that
stand is going to be and the quicker
it's going to come online for you.
And once you get those plants up, as
long as you graze them properly, you
use rest, you, you don't just, natives
are very sensitive to overgrazing.
As long as you're mimicking the bison
and moving them every so frequently,
you can really abuse them for a
short period of time if you give them
the proper rest period on the back
end, they're super resilient, but
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: So by, from
the time you put you drill them in,
you've got your nurse crop, and you
mentioned just a while ago you were able
to graze your sheep through the wheat
I think you said three times before
that gamma grass really got started.
But once that grass starts coming up, how
long before you do any grazing on that?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: So
once, once it starts coming and that's
part of the reason I was walking
mine last night, I'm getting ready
to bring sheep back to that farm.
So I've seen what has germinated.
I don't want to hit any
of these new seedlings.
So as far as I'm concerned, like
this new stand I've got in that game
of grass, I'm taking them to frost.
I'm probably going to intercede some
Milo just for some stockpiled grazing.
It, I don't know whether I'll get much
of a stand as, Think of some of my stuff
is out there currently, but I'll add on
occasional add some other species try
not to hinder the new stand I'll probably
plant some 60 inch milo out there just
to add some other winter stockpile feed
But at this point I'm looking at that
stand is just it whatever it makes me for
winter feed I'll go in there after the
first killing frost and then I'll start
grazing some stuff off on it But it's
Offline for the rest of summer.
So
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah I had
suspected that was probably the case.
And then graze it during dormant season.
Will you plan to graze it next
year or you baby it a second year?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah,
I'll probably start grazing it next year.
I'll be a little careful making sure with
some of these smaller, younger plants.
I don't plan to push
it overly hard for the
second year, but I will try to get at
least two grazings off of it next year.
If it's we're getting adequate rain
and I can get in and out of it pretty
quick, but a lot of times, like I said,
if you do, you take care of them the
first year, they can go basic, not
full production year two, but they're
pretty good chunk of the way there.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh, yeah.
And when you think about your
native pasture versus fescue,
how does that grazing differ?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: So like I
said, historically when I was moving every
day you're trying to leave, depending what
style of grazing someone wants to do, I
know there's a lot of different ways to
graze stuff.
there's
some total grazing.
I was, I've tried pushing the grazing
on, on, on fescue with my sheep and I
had some health issues with the sheep.
So I've backed off to where I'm leaving
a little more residual than most people.
And the higher density grazing
probably are just seem like the sheep
didn't handle it as well as cows do.
But the natives, rather than
leaving that 4 to 6 inches of
residual, you're probably leaving
somewhere closer to 8 to 12 inches.
And like I said, if you've ever
read anything on how bison used
to graze, they could pummel it.
So you can go in and pummel those grasses.
But that's a longer rest period on
the back end, if you leave that 12
inches, you can probably crank out a
couple of grazings in summer because
it's going to respond pretty quick.
You're looking I'll probably misspeak
here, but fescue, the majority of the
roots are in the first foot, two feet.
Eastern gamma and Indian
grass and big blue.
Some of those, you're talking
10 to 16 feet and we've got a
hard clay, hard pan up here.
I think that's one of the issues
we face in our row crop is we
took grasses out of this area that
had these deep roots that helped
us get through those hard pans and
they're adapted to get through there.
Our fescue is not really breaking
that up as much up in this area.
So
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: I've seen
those images comparing native roots
to these improved variety roots.
It's just amazing how deep
those native roots go.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah.
And it's, yeah, there's, it makes them
so resilient, whether it's burning.
Horse grazing or, what, whatever
the, whatever's going on.
There's a lot of reserve there for those
plants to kick it back in and go again.
Eh and I had, I kinda, I did that,
I had a couple plugs of Gamma grass.
I've got a local ecotype.
I've been digging and plugging around my
farm, just to help spread those genetics
around, and I had a pretty good clump
that I forgot where I did it at.
I didn't mark it.
And so I had one spot of fescue.
I just, I had a bunch of
lambs in that paddock.
So I left them there longer than
I normally would have last year.
And I realized afterwards, I'm
like, Oh, that's where that gamma
grass is at.
I pummeled it.
The fescue started out cause we got
so dry, the gamma grass, even just a
one year stand, it was an established
plant that I'd plugged, but it just
immediately ramped up and took off.
And it was pretty resilient where
I thought I killed the thing.
It, yeah, it
did great.
But
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: a little bit
about, if you hammer it pretty hard,
you gotta give it enough rest time.
Are you typically trying to give
it On native grass twice as long
as fescue to recover or how is that
rest period when you think about it?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
I'd look to see, I'd look to watch
the leaf tip make a point again, I
think, Greg Judy always talks about
that.
That's my big thing.
I do follow that same principle
as far as I don't want to put
a time limit to it because
if I graze it hard mid June, it
may be ready again in two weeks.
So it's you just got to watch the
grass and if it's still showing, it's
growing slow, the leaf hasn't pointed
back out like it's fully recovered.
I, you might be a little bit
early on that grazing, but
I don't want to say, four weeks or
five weeks because it just depends
on the time of year, the rainfall
you're getting later in the season.
I would shut down, September 15th.
It's the cutoff for us ahead of a killing
frost because you want to make sure you
leave enough stuff that enough leaf that
you're putting root reserves back in.
So that's northeast Missouri.
That's our cutoff.
You get animals out of Warm season natives
at that time to make sure that they're,
they got adequate fill for winter.
And then after you have that
killing frost, you can dump back
in and basically take them back to
wherever that stubble heighth is
the bunch grass stubble heighth starts at.
Even a little farther from that 12
inches I said earlier, but yeah.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Now
fescue is stockpiling it.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Do you
do some stockpiling of fescue?
Can you stockpile native grasses?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah, so
we do stockpile fescue and that's part of
the reason we're bringing the natives in.
It gets us off of the fescue in a
window that it's going to allow me to
stockpile better than what I've been
doing.
It's a big part of it.
The cover crops play into
our personal operation big
in that, early winter window.
But the natives historically, the people
always say that they lose quality as
they mature out extremely quickly.
One of my friends has done a little
bit of testing showing that Gamma
holds on to, it holds on to nutrients
a lot longer than what people thought.
He sent off
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
there's no, I don't know if there's
a whole lot of data on it outside
of him sending off forage samples.
So it was carrying quite a bit of
nutrition into December that, Originally,
people wouldn't have thought they did,
and I gotta say, I noticed my sheep,
when I dumped them in, that's one of
the first things that is the sheep and
a couple of Coriannis that were out
there with them they went right to that
game of patch and started taking it
down where we had some really burnt up
stuff out of the drought last year, that
they found the natives pretty quick,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: oh yeah.
We, I'm not really sure
on the gamma grass range.
I know my dad had read something about it
and we've talked about trying to establish
just a little bit, see what it does here.
I think I'm a little west of where.
The normal range is, but to be
honest I'm not sure I could identify
it if I walked out in the pasture.
I'm just not familiar
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah,
once you see it, and it almost, I don't
want to say it looks exactly like johnson
grass because it doesn't, but it would
have some similarities to johnson grass
or if you've ever seen shatter cane
starting out young it's in the corn family
gamma grasses.
So it's got a lot of similarities
as far as leaf structure.
It's obviously smaller, but,
and I, yeah, I'd say your area,
Oklahoma, there probably were
some varieties down there, or
Some ecotypes that
would have ranged there.
I think I don't want to misspeak on here,
but I know there's a couple southern,
yeah, Oklahoma, Texas, there's some
ecotypes that come from that region.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: but, yeah
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: I know we,
we've talked about it and it's always
been something I gotta research.
I gotta look at Dale Strickler's
book, see what it says.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Yeah, that's a good
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712:
And I haven't done it yet.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: And that's
one thing with the native establishment.
I, I talked to Dale quite a bit before
I did the game of grass cause I knew
he was one of the big gurus on it.
And he told me to inoculate the seed
and I can't think of the name of the
stuff I use, but I got it through him.
But I did inoculate the native seed
cause they have, obviously being,
Taking stuff out of crop ground, the
microbial community isn't what a prairie
is, so that really is supposed to help
that initial establishment period.
I think in his book he's got
a side by side in it of stuff
that he inoculated and didn't
inoculate on gamma grass, and I will,
for what I see from mine, I didn't
leave a strip that I didn't inoculate,
I just inoculated it all, but I'm pretty
pleased compared to some other
establishments I've seen in my area
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: No, very good.
Yeah.
I, my, my dad will see
something or I'll see something.
So we're always talking about
something else we got to try.
And sometimes I'm like, let's just put the
brakes on it and just do what we're doing.
But I know we've talked a lot about
gamma grass and seeing what it does here.
And we don't, most of our land here my
dad's place is all improved varieties.
That's.
It's not any natives.
Most of my lease land
there is natives on it.
A lot of broomstedge and a
lot of just Johnson grass.
So I graze a lot of that.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Okay.
Yep.
I don't have any Johnson grass and
I'm, I don't, it looks like it can
pour on some tonnage, but I'm a
little bit scared of this stuff.
So I'm glad it's not something
I have to face yet, but
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: It is, right
now it's one of my favorite grasses.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: yep.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: gets It's late
summer, that patch of johnson grass,
one place I have, like the north half
of the property is johnson grass mainly.
And I can graze that as hard as I want.
And doing my rotations, and before I even
realize it, I'm ready to go back there.
It's amazing how much foliage it'll
put up, put out there for you.
Now of course you gotta be very careful
about grazing it, and for the most part.
I've not had any trouble and I say for
the most part, I haven't had any trouble.
But I grew up and my dad
had trouble grazing ginseng
grass and we lost some cows.
That's always in the back of my mind
because I'm too poor to lose cows.
Laughs They are, yes, yeah.
Kody, it is time for us to move
on to our famous four questions
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cal_1_05-17-2024_145712:
They're the same four questions
we ask of all of our guests.
And our first question, What
is your favorite grazing grass
related book or resource?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: yeah,
that's I read a lot of old journals just
about So I don't know if it's a grazing
grass resource necessarily, but you like
to see what the ecological context of our
area was pre settlement.
That's the template.
I think it's never going to be like it
was, but if I can mimic some of those
systems of my grazing, I, some of the
old Lewis and Clark journals and there's
some others from my area you can find
and then anything from Wendell Berry.
It's he's a big agrarian writer.
I can't say it's necessarily grazing
grass again, but he's all about community
and bringing stuff back to the farm.
So I really enjoy reading
his stuff as well.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: I need to read
his work because his work gets brought up
and I haven't read it and it's really sad.
It's really a lack on my part.
I need to read some of that.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Yeah, I recommend it.
It's, yeah, The Unsettling of America
was written in the 70s and he's
called what's happened in the last
50 years pretty, yeah, that book
forecasts a lot of what happened in
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Oh,
yeah.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
I'd recommend it.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Kody, our second question.
What is your favorite tool for the farm?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Definitely a side by side.
So again, I'm an efficient farmer, so
I like getting places fast and
without walking as much as possible.
So I've done a lot of walking
as a kid and I really enjoy the
gator that we got on the farm.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712:
I'm about to transition.
I do most of my setting up
fences and stuff by walking.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: yep.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: But I've
got a knee that has decided that
it wants to hurt once in a while.
So I'm about to transition to a side by
side or a four wheeler to put up fences.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep
I've been pretty stubborn for a
lot of years and after we finally
got one, I'm not looking back,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: oh yeah.
I keep pricing them and prices scare me.
I haven't jumped on anything and
of course I'm always looking on
Facebook Marketplace for a bargain.
And my wife is usually quick to
say, you know how to fix that?
And sadly my problem is I'm like,
nope, but I think I can figure it out.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep, yeah
for, save a couple thousand dollars,
you can do a lot of research on YouTube.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Exactly, yeah.
Our next question Kody, what would
you tell someone just getting started?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yeah, get
involved with some local farmers that
are doing it or find someone, even if
you have to drive an hour or two bounce
ideas off of guys that have been doing
it, cause if they can save you some
headache Mistakes, I've had a lot of
guys that have helped me keep from making
mistakes and I made a lot of mistakes
that I've hopefully been able to help
other people not make network wise.
I would just definitely network and then
don't be scared to jump in and try it.
Even small scale is still a
great learning opportunity.
Don't get yourself hung out, but
just go out there and try it.
We need more people on the land,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: I think all
that's great advice building that
network, figuring out people in your
area go to conferences so you can find
who they are, because went and listened
to Alejandro Calderillo just a couple
months ago, and I met someone two I
was going to say two miles, he's not,
he's, he would be six miles from me,
but I'm like, I didn't even know you
were there, where you been hiding?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
It's amazing what kind of
people come out of the way.
You start doing something that's different
and it's people that are a lot closer
to you have been doing it for quite a
while, but you never knew it cause they
were either too scared to talk about it
or they were just in their own little
area doing
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Or out
of the way where you don't go.
Yeah.
So get out there and network.
I love the advice of getting started.
Nothing gets finished if you don't start.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Yep.
Yep.
So you just get the ball rolling.
That's the big one.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: And lastly, Kody,
where can others find out more about you?
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Yeah, so I'm on most social media.
I'm on.
TikTok and X now, I guess instead
of Twitter, I think I flerdy
grazers my handle on both of those just
since I got cows and sheep, I thought
that was a cute name or whatever, but
and then I'm on Facebook is just Kody
Karr and Instagram is Karr family farms.
So I like to throw a bunch of
pictures of the farms and my kids
being honoree on the farm on there.
um, I probably, but yep that's probably
the easiest places to find me and yep.
If anyone's ever got any questions,
I'm happy to tell them how
I've messed stuff up before,
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: wonderful, Kody.
We'll put those links in our show
notes, and we really appreciate you
coming on and sharing with us today.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712:
Yeah, thank you, Cal, for having me.
This has been pretty fun.
Like I said, I've enjoyed listening
for a while, so I appreciate you
reaching out and having me on.
cal_1_05-17-2024_145712: Wonderful.
I appreciate you listening, and
I've enjoyed the conversation.
kody-karr_1_05-17-2024_145712: Thank you.
Cal: I really hope you
enjoyed today's conversation.
I know I did.
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