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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] hello and welcome to the moonshots master series. It's episode zero one. That's right. The very first one. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons. And as always I'm joined by a rather motivated guy. Harrison Freeland. Good morning, mark. Hey, good morning, Mike. What an exciting journey that you and I and our subscribers on Patriot on are about to begin today, right?
It's crazy for all of our members, the moon shutters, we are kicking off a brand new series. It's the master series of moonshots. We're going to still do the moonshots podcast every single week. But for those of you that are members, you're getting a brand new additional show that we're going to publish every single month.
And mark, where are we starting this journey today, listeners and members. We are digging into the concept of motivation. Motivation is clearly [00:01:00] an a DNA. You have a lot of the moonshot is that we cover on the show. And after all these amounts of lessons and insights from these individuals, Mike, I feel like we've got.
Solid grasp on the sort of DNA of motivation. Don't we? I totally agree. I think that we're well over a hundred episodes of moonshots, and that gives us the ability to kind of pull together a complete body of work, a complete guide to motivation, a complete playbook for motivation. So that's, what's in store for you today, listeners.
We've got some amazing people. We've got the 3g. We've got David Goggins, lady Gaga and Gary V. But we're going to go a lot deeper than that into motivation. We're going to go into the self-determination theory. We're going to study the work of Daniel pink and to round it out, we are going to somehow miraculously combine two, three different guys, Jordan Peterson and James clear.
But [00:02:00] what is for sure is that you will have a complete body of work. You will be ready to put motivation as a daily practice for you to work on it and get 1% better every single day. That is the promise that we have for you. Listeners. We've studied so many amazing people were ready to turn it all around and put it into a complete body of work for you today.
Mark motivation. What an appropriate place to say. If you're going to be the best version of yourself, if you're going to do it. To push yourself. I think there's no other place to start other than motivation, right. Or it's sometimes was the hardest thing to refer back to. Isn't it, you know, you begin maybe a new project or a product, or you start a new job, or maybe it's a family, whatever it is, you go into these different adventures in life.
And sometimes you, you run into moments when you either question your decision or maybe you [00:03:00] question even getting out of bed, you know, something, maybe it's raining and you're wondering whether you can get up and go for a run or not motivation is that intrinsic thing that drives us all of us. All of us might be motivated in different ways, of course, but hopefully today, as we dig into the science and the foundational elements of motivation, I think something that you and I, as well as our members will be able to understand is there's a, there's a thin line that connects all of us.
And once you start to understand what motivates you, you can then almost dare I say, control that motivation, right? You can control how you react and how you are inspired in certain moments of your days. So therefore you go out and be the best version of yourself. That's so true. And I think that what's so exciting is we've got such a range of You know, fearless, amazing people, smart people that we've [00:04:00] studied for you as listeners to pull it all together in motivation.
And the first chapter of our journey is we're going to study people that are the embodiments of motivation. We've got three really distinct points of view on motivation. And I want you to think of this. The start of the show is the river. This is the, this is the coach talk in the locker room before the big game.
This is going to be three big ideas coming up over the next part of the show where we can return to the essence of getting started every day, where we can return to, to be the very best version of yourself. So if you're feeling a little bit flat, there is nobody better. Then starting with Mr. David Goggins.
So let's dive into his point of view on motivation. Let's listen to the idea of not giving up. People hear my story and think gets guys to distance. [00:05:00] I realized how the, how the brain works. I figured out how the brain works. I'm a scared kid and that's what gives me so much power. I had no foundation and I built this off of just researching the mind.
The feeling you get is basically invincibility. You realize that you can't do it all the time when you need to do it. I know I can go to a place. That I can live in. And when you know that you can run on broken legs and you can do certain things that a lot of people can do, but they're not willing to do this power, the sympathetic nervous system of fight or flight, and you're fighting.
It gives you this charge of energy. When you're sitting there at 3 30, 4 o'clock in the morning and your duct tape on your feet up because right broken. [00:06:00] And you're doing it by yourself. And you're going through arguably, one of the hardest training in the world and these guys, most of them are healthy and you're going through a broken and you're already at a disadvantage, but you're still there.
You can feed into that and tap into that for a lot of power. But if you look at it while I'm broken, man, I'm not gonna make it. But if you look at it as man I'm broken and I'm still here now fighting, I'm going to find a way to get through this because I have no other place to go. It gives you a lot of power.
When things start to suck really, really bad. My brain in a lot of people's brain, don't they, they don't go to your dad, beating you up. Your brain says we ain't get out of here. This is miserable. So anger goes away a lot of times when you're suffering, because your brain that says we gotta run, we gotta [00:07:00] go.
So that anger is not popping up saying, oh, I'm going to show them, I'm going to show you those people. No, there has to be a much deeper do I say deeper? It has to be down to mineral mineral soil. It has to be down to that nice mineral soil where nothing can burn burn. You can't burn dirt. So it has to be down that low.
That literally is something in you. That's at the core of your soul. And, but you, but you don't find it unless you spend a lot of time with what you want to be in life. You, I can't give that to you. Right? You can't give it to somebody when you find your true passion in life. And my passion for me when like, oh, I want to be a Navy seals, army round, give a shit.
I want to serve my country. I cared about, I want to be someone that I'm proud of. I mean, talk about drilling motivation down into [00:08:00] those foundational elements, right? I mean, Goggins even references this mineral level idea of but look, I think we need to put him into context before we break it down.
Why does David Goggins have the, the right, the permission to challenge us like that? Well, he grew up, he had a terrible childhood poverty, prejudice, physical abuse, but then. Overcame all of his faults. He was big guy, very overweight, and he became the only man in history to complete training as a Navy seal army ranger and air force.
Tactical air controller. He was voted the fittest man in America. [00:09:00] This is why he has the permission. Isn't it much? Well, I mean, we dug into his book. Connor hurt me in episode 94. Didn't we Mike. And I remember he's just actually been one of our go-to guys when we're thinking about personal transformation, because he really did that.
He managed to drive himself into those three categories, as you've just said, you know, the army, the Navy, and so on that nobody else has ever done. So when we're thinking about motivation, we're thinking about personal drive sources of energy. He's the guy that we've got to stop because he's really demonstrated this mind over matter.
You know, he was able to maybe compartmentalize that, that breakdown of, oh, I can't do this. It hurts. So no thanks. I want to fly away from this. And instead he can get past obesity. He had a congenital heart defect as well as asthma, and he was able to get past those. And I'd argue, Mike, maybe through a [00:10:00] motivational or a mindset orientated around motivation once he'd broken it down into that DNA and was able to master his mind and where he does it.
There's a pivot that he mentions in that clip that I want to call out is where he says I'm broken, but I'm still here. And that is a win. And I think this is really important for us to point out because a lot of people look at themselves and say, oh, I failed at this. I didn't do that. I should give up.
What he does is he moves to a more primary level and says, yeah, I'm broken, I'm hurting. Maybe I've failed. But the victim is that I have survived. I'm still in the game. He says, there's still time on the clock. And that means that I'm still on the field I'm playing. And [00:11:00] that's the start of his motivation.
This is that mineral level, that dirt level that he talks about. If we can intercept ourselves, when we say I'm broken and I'm hurting and I should give up and turn it into, I am broken and I'm hurting and I'm still here. I'm still in the game. Me, this is the most primary motivational practice you can do.
If you can avoid victimization. You know this idea of self victimizing. Oh, . And we all do it. It's the ego speaking. But if you can just have the fortitude and the mental model, if you can train yourself to say, yeah, I'm hurting, but I'm still in the game. This is one of the most powerful mental models don't quit.
Don't give up. Don't, don't give into the pain push [00:12:00] on beep that you're still in the game. In fact, to do a complete tangent. One of our other great shows that we did was on Paul Graham from Y Combinator. Yeah. And he says for a startup, survival is success because so many startups fail. So we can see this pattern.
If we can just open our us to the idea that we're here. If you wake up every morning, God damn I'm awake when number one, that is tick that box. We are on the way we got momentum. Let's go, let's go right. Cold shower. Let's do this. Exactly. I think this to me is the most powerful thing. Don't fall for the victimization.
So yeah, I'm hurting. I ain't going so great, but I'm still here. Sorry. I mean for me, one of the pieces that stood out was actually the very start of the [00:13:00] club when he's referencing invincibility and, you know, being able to go to his inner place of, of energy and a place that he can live in in order to be motivated.
I think that's quite reassuring for me when I think about motivation, as you just said. Yeah. Sometimes we'll all struggle. Maybe we'll fall into the camp of, oh, poor me or all fall into the camp of, no, I don't want to have to go and do this. I don't have that fire within me. I don't think invincibility can come overnight.
And as we'll talk about today, we're going to dig into lots of different elements of the drive and the science behind motivation, but it'll be interesting to get to a point of, okay, well, how can I build on this? Maybe? How can I start to get that little bit more invincible? And that's what I'm looking forward to going on this journey with our listeners.
Totally agree. And what's so fascinating about Goggins is you can see the work that he is doing to look within. And what is amazing about the moonshots podcast is we found [00:14:00] exactly the same pattern in somebody who is completely different and that's lady Gaga. So let's have a listen to her, talking about being relentless and feeling.
I just have such a love and affinity for show business
I just always felt thymus. That's what my first album was really about is that fame comes from within inside of you. And it's not something that you obtain. And I still feel that way in a lot of ways. I like to know that I can define my fame and define my beauty for myself, which is why I'm saying.
Vigilant and relentless about my image and my music is I will not allow no matter how successful I become for the public to define or indicate what it is I create or what it is that I believe is beautiful, or what I believe is a hit pop record. That's who I am. And I will, I will always be that way, but let listen, fearless and vicious.
Isn't it interesting [00:15:00] that connection that exists between those two different clips from Goggins and lady Gaga. The drive that comes from within is prevailing in both of their stories here, you know, Goggins never giving up. That's my unfair advantage and lady Gaga saying, yeah, but I define, and I allow my music.
I define the way that I go out into the world and how my fame orientates, or maybe defines me as a person. I think that both taking ownership, right. That, that seems to be something that's sad to hear. That is the perfect word. They are both taking ownership to be the best version of themselves. She was talking about.
I divine myself, not anybody else. Goggins is like, I'm there by myself, typing up my fate and I'm still in the game, right? Neither of them depending upon others to motivate them, neither of them are allowing [00:16:00] others to define themselves. And I think that the power that you hear in their voices, the motivation that you see comes from daring to dream, what the best version of yourself can be, and then going for it.
And not giving up. Both of them have them have a fire raging in them because they are pursuing their purpose. Now what's fascinating. And we're going to come and we're going to talk about Simon Sinek later is that we're going to do a whole show on purpose, but he talks about finding your why and what is for sure that Goggins and Gaga, they know their why, but motivationally, they are sticking to it.
They are embracing racing it, they are holding on to that thing. Like [00:17:00] everything depends upon it. And there is, you can just tell that in the search for a great record. Gaga will not give up for creating a sound. That is her sound. Nobody else's. She will never give up Goggins Navy seal ranger, air force. No problem.
I got this. I'm not giving up. And I think what we can do is enjoy just the inspiration you get, but go into the fact that they are holding onto their purpose and taking full and complete ownership. If Gaga song is no good. Who do you think she blames? Who takes, who takes ownership for that? Her, if Goggins doesn't cross the finish line.
Do you think he's blaming the marshal or the weather? No way. He's, he's looking at himself. Right. And that seems to be for me, at least as we dig [00:18:00] into the series today, as well as our moonshot in individuals that we've covered in the other show, Mike, it feels like this idea of ownership is almost like a relief.
You know, I feel relieved that motivation is something that I can control if I am subjected or maybe limited by being motivated from somebody else or from something else. Maybe it's weather Marshall's record producers, whatever it might be. If though, if they are the source of my motivation. And obviously we'll dig into to some signs of motivation later in the show today.
If I can remember and refer back to the fact that I control my reaction to things, I can control my level of motivation to get up in the morning, to go for a run in the rain, to maybe write the best pop song. Maybe that's not going to be for me personally, [00:19:00] but if I can remember that I own that element of motivation.
I own the DNA that's within my mind within my body, and I can learn how to control that and I can learn how to improve on it that a day that's going to be something that for me, I kind of feel a bit relieved. Right? Well, you know, why it's this idea of focusing on the things that you control and that's a theme that's come up a lot in our show from many different superstars where they are.
Focused, mostly on what some people call circle of competence is another way you'll hear people talking about it, knowing what you can do, knowing what you can just to give you a, like a crazy reference, a Warren buffet, only investing in companies that he understands. And he's missed some great investments such as Amazon, because he just didn't understand the business.
And he is totally comfortable that he [00:20:00] invests in what he understands and he doesn't go beyond. And so what you'll see here is that there is this fundamental thinking of taking ownership of yourself that helps you not be a victim, but in a practical perspective, if you say, Hey, I'm going to run five Ks today.
This is really powerful because you. Are the one that has complete control of you waking up stretching, getting ready, getting a gear on and going for that run. Nope. It's not like I'm not going to win the race. Cause you got to wait for the race by just focusing on things that you control. You can then go, Hey, I did the run good on me.
Satisfaction fulfillment, all comes as a result of that. And too often, when it comes to motivation, our motivation, she has hedged upon all these contingencies and dependencies upon others. [00:21:00] And I think the relief comes from what you hear in Goggins and Gaga as you think it true is that it's all on them, but that's great.
They have full control of that. They're not depending on any. Don't depend on other people to find that drive, to put you into gear and get you going. Yeah, you're right. That's exactly where these two individuals have, have really found their, I guess, uniqueness say yes. And think about it, mark. We've got like this this vibrant theatrical, extravagant lady Gaga who's full of creativity and just so sassy.
And then on the other hand, equal power, but a totally different total power is David Goggins putting his body through physical trials that are for most of us just downright scary, [00:22:00] but they come from the same place to end it. They come from the same pay place. And what Gaga was saying in that clip was her fearlessness.
It kind of became her monster in a good way. That monster was her motivation and the Goggins piece of never giving up. That's kind of his personal monster as well. You know, and I, I kind of liked this idea that motivation is something that exists within us all the time. And all you really need to do is kind of wake it up, give it a bit of a shake and live in it.
And your view exactly. It's the fight or flight, isn't it? How do I train it to become this source of power that I can tap into and, you know, just to prove to you mark, and to all of our listeners, the interconnection between people in very different disciplines, right? We're going to throw in a third person now.
So we've had David Gaga. We've had lady Gaga. We had to keep the G thing going. So we've got Gary V now. [00:23:00] And what we're going to hear about is a new take on this motivation. And he actually has this idea, which he considers to be the real secret to success. The way to win. This is oldest time do the right thing and put in the fucking work.
Just nothing else, by the way. There's nothing else in anything. How do I become a professional hockey player, talent and effort? How do I become a tremendous top 1% lawyer talented effort? How do I become a phenomenal mother talent and effort, it's talent and effort and what, what I love about effort and why I love hustle.
And now that it's become so cliche, you see me saying the word work a little bit more now because I just want people to get it right. It's controllable. You mean people here want to be a millionaire, you know, rare bet is have you run them? You miss a Laurus audacity. Yeah. You're not putting in the work to get you [00:24:00] there because you think somehow you've been pricked by yourself or somebody else that there's some system like really we're at a place now where kids think it's cool.
If somebody goes and takes money out of a bank and puts it on their fucking bed and thinks a picture on it, like what the fuck is the matter with you? It really sucks. It sucks when you buy a $20,000 Rolex and the world collapses and you have no money. And your Rolex is, were 4,000. That sucks. So I always say I'm a tortoise and a Hare's costume, zero people, zero people that have built something big that hasn't put in a ridiculous amount of work and the bigger it is, the more they work.
So I think you have to execute. People can smell things. So many of you have your mouth way ahead of your actions. Really? You're going to own an island and you fucking go to Coachella. Fuck you. When it comes from a true place you win. And when it doesn't, you don't like I wasn't born six foot seven and can [00:25:00] run.
I couldn't wish I was something for, I can realize I am something and try to maximize on that. It's a game of poker. You get a hand, nobody's going to cry for you about your hand. Nobody's going to say, oh, it's terrible. That you're not fast or tall. Or gorgeous or, or, or, or can sing. It is what it is. And now the only thing that can happen is you can figure out how to navigate it.
The second you stopped dwelling, and the second you stopped start doing everything changes. They don't give a fuck the second, understand that. And just start trying to make shit happen with that energy you win. Nobody cares about my problems. Nobody has ever cared about my problems. My problems seem far less silly.
Now I got problems. I don't want to be here on a Saturday when my family's not here. I know problems, but this what I mean, my bed, I'm making my choices. I got my reality. Every single person here has shit. All of you, you all have shit. Do the white dudes have a better, yes. Guess [00:26:00] what? They still have shit.
Everybody's got shit. And nobody cares about your shit. They care about their shit. Cause everybody's got shit. So nobody cares about your fucking complaining. Go fucking do something. And let's say it like what you think somebody is gonna come along and be like, oh, we're so sorry. They don't care for a reason.
You got it. That's it right.
By not worrying about what other people think. It allows you to do things by doing things you either win or you learn from your loss and it creates speed. It's the absolute mental difference between the people that are executing and winning versus the people that aren't, it's the fear of others. I don't want to lose, but I'm definitely more disappointed than your opinion in your blog post about my loss.
I need a deep breath there. Mike, that was a, a lot of inspiration coming from Gary V but it's classic. He's an amazing Gary V he's classic Gary V isn't it machine gun. But actually when we break down [00:27:00] all of those different snippets that he's given us in that, in that big clip, there's so much relevant DNA and reference to this concept of motivation isn't there.
And obviously the thing that comes up. Repeatedly in that selection of clips is putting in the hard work, being the secret to success. You're only going to get, as far as the effort that you put into it. That's kinda, you know, element number one that comes through from Gary V there isn't it. Yeah. And in style and everything is so different to, to Gaga, however, themes.
It is so crazy. We can get three completely different. Yeah. People touching upon the same essential thinking about motivation. Did you notice he's like you got to stick at it. Don't worry. Worry about others, focus on what you control. And there's no such [00:28:00] thing as an overnight success. If you look at those themes, not only do they rev relate very closely with Goggins and Gaga, but in fact, so many of the shows we've done on moonshots, where we discover that.
There is this thinking. I think that's really important, which is life is hard. And if you make the bold choice to be the best version of yourself, you are deciding to make it harder. And just accept that. I think that we suffer so much from this idea that success should just come easy. Look at Joe Rogan.
Look at the thinking that he was talking about. It feels so much better when you earn it and just get re get comfortable with the discomfort. In fact, just accept that life is hard and life isn't going to be easy. I think so many of us are too [00:29:00] entitled on thinking it should come easy. The truth is it won't except that and just get ready for the all right.
Yeah, I totally agree. I think the concept of, if we go back to Goggins, if you're in a race and. You're struggling. You're hitting a wall. You have a tendency to maybe give up and that's a perfect relation to what Gary V saying from a career business perspective, isn't it put in there miles. And when you do hit those walls, those areas that become really pretty difficult instead of turning away from it.
Yeah. Or putting up your running shoes and saying, no, I'm out. Keep on pushing because that's, what's going to define you. That's where you're going to get the most mileage from your experience. When you start struggle, when you cope with loss or failure, you know, Gary V he repeatedly goes back to the idea of you are.
Proven by the, the, the things that you fail at, right? You are going to learn those lessons. [00:30:00] And actually what you're going to learn from failure is actually what motivates you, because actually it could be that the N the loss, the idea of getting better, the idea of learning from that experience is in itself, maybe something that motivates you to go out and learn.
You remember Jaco, Willink is like, problem. Good. So, so that's this same pivot that you hear. Goggin saying things aren't great, but I'm still in the game. Good. God, God, I'm going to define myself. Nobody else. Good. Gary V is like, yeah, hard work. There's no such thing as overnight success. So just put in the work, grind.
It. Good. And what a, what a powerful Testament to motivation that we can find three. So wildly different people in wildly different universes, who all come to these interconnected truths [00:31:00] that just accept the hardship, take control of the things that you control and push and go as hard as you can. Mark. I feel like we've got the inspiration part done.
Do you think we're done? Do you think we're ready to move on to some deeper understanding some of the science of motivation? Yeah. I think that the thing for me as we move into this, this next part, Mike, with the science is something that I'm going to kind of hold on to, as we open ourselves up to this next part is the personal ownership that you can have.
Right. The fact that you can control how you respond to motivation. So as we enter part two of the show, that's what I'm going to remember in my mind and try and keep at the forefront of all of our discussions. Yeah, absolutely. Now don't forget. We have done shows on David Goggins and Gary V on the moonshots podcast.
So you can just go to [00:32:00] moonshots.io and you can totally check out those in the back catalog if you haven't heard them before. Or if you think you want to give them a bit of a revisit, but before we kick off this second part, I think it's really important because this is the master series that we should point out.
If you're listening right now, we do strongly advise that you go to moonshots.io and go to our members area, go to the show notes for this show. This is the first show, the motivation show for the moonshots master series, because we're about to get into some, some science, some frameworks, and we've pulled together a great collection of these.
And in particular, the frameworks we're going to mention in this section of the show, you can actually read along as we discuss these frameworks. It's not mandatory, but we really do recommend that if you want to get the most out of this master series, you [00:33:00] should be looking at some of these frameworks.
And particularly in the last part of the show, we're going to be doing some questionnaires and some inventories and motivation on how we build these daily habits. Make sure that you've got those in front of you because some of them might really unlock something for you in this area. Of motivation.
All right, mark, where do we start? As we now kind of switch modes? I mean, it felt like we're in fifth gear, so I don't know. Are we going into sixth gear here or like, where are we going? Well, look, I would, I would coach or okay. The first section of first part where we heard from the three GS of, of Gary Gaga and Goggins as the underpinning element of motivation that maybe our listeners and you and I have experienced before.
These are individuals that maybe we've seen out in the world. There's an element of motivation that I guess you learn as you grow up, but the truth is how many times have you actually taken a step back and thought, well, what is actually the [00:34:00] principle of motivation? What does it actually mean? And the second part, Mike is really, as you say, digging into the science and understanding what motivation is.
So actually I'd like to almost slow us down a little bit and actually hear from Ronan owl who has this great breakdown of what motivation is. So this next clip that we're going to hear from is motivation and how it moves us. Meaning of motivation is to be moved, to do something. It can be described as a trigger that starts the thought I am going to do this.
And there are two basic kinds of motivation. There's intrinsic. And there's extrinsic. If you are intrinsically motivated, you will perform a task because you enjoy doing it. You are having. If you are extrinsically motivated, you will perform a task because of external impulses, like a reward or punishment to determine whether a task is motivated by intrinsic or extrinsic [00:35:00] impulses.
We can use the concept of the psychological needs provided by the self-determination theory. This concept states that everybody has three innate psychological needs, namely autonomy, competence, and relatedness. The more each one of those needs satisfied. The more we perceive the task as intrinsic, hence more enjoyable.
Autonomy refers to decision-making does need to satisfy it. If you can decide for yourself, if you want to do something, if someone tells you to take action, you probably won't enjoy it that much. Competence means that you have the right skills to complete a task. It is important that the task is neither too easy, not too hard.
A two piece puzzle is probably no fun, but a thousand piece puzzle of a clear blue sky might be no fun. Either relatedness refers to the degree, you feel connected to your [00:36:00] social environment. If a friend asks you for a favor, you might have no problem helping him or her out. But what about a friend of your friend's friend?
So of none of those needs are satisfied. We have no motivation at all. It is a motivation. If all of those needs are satisfied completely, we are intrinsically motivated in between those two points, that different stages reaching from purely external impulses, extrinsic to completely internal impulses intrinsic.
Well, mark, you are absolutely right. We're getting into the science of this. There's plenty to share. So this is where the, the master series gets so good. So not only do we sort of pick our favorite, our absolute favorite clips from our moonshot podcast, but what we also do is we go a [00:37:00] level deeper to find the science behind in this case.
Motivation. Now, what we were listening to is a summary of what is called the self determination theory. Now, the great news for you listeners is that if you go to moonshots.io, go to our members section, you will find, you will find in the show notes, a link to the. Huge piece of work that was done in 2000 by Ryan and deci, we have the peer reviewed paper of the self-determination theory.
This was breakthrough because what it actually do is it presented to us two fundamental types of motivation. So we're going to simplify it and give you an introduction to this theory. It's what they call the self-determination theory. We're just going to give you an introduction to it, [00:38:00] but there is so much power in it.
If you're really interested in it, go to moonshots.io, get the show notes because they're all the links are in there and you can go a lot, lot deeper than we're going to go. So traditionally, what the world has done is said, Hey, I will give you a promotion. If you do a good job. The objectives. I'll give you a bonus, a pay raise, I'll throw in some extra benefits.
Maybe there'll be prizes. Maybe there'll be winning and perks. Sometimes it's the threat, the extrinsic threat of if you don't hit it we'll be chopping off the head. That's also not necessarily a great motivator, but maybe so here's the point. A lot of people before this piece of work, the self-determination theory relied [00:39:00] heavily on extrinsic motivators, you know, a badge, a prize or ribbon for doing well.
Okay. What the long term winners, people who become the best version of themselves, what this study found is it was those that had. Intrinsic motivation. Those were the ones that performed the best over time breakthrough watershed study that has opened up a massive body of work and insight into how we actually are motivated.
So if extrinsic motivators, prizes, badges, perks, all that kind of stuff is on one side. I want you to imagine there's another side of us, and this is so, so. Typically moonshots. It's all [00:40:00] about what is deep and inside of us. In fact, mark is what we just heard right from God, God Goggins. And Gary V isn't it.
Why exactly, you know, you could argue that, that for those who don't know about self determination theory, SDT, it's just their personality. They're just driven to do this because they want to get out of that. But the truth is they are pure personifications or demonstrations of that intrinsic motivation.
Aren't they they're doing it from themselves. They're doing it. Gary V I'd say he's certainly passionate, but also he's curious about the world, right? Exactly. Exactly. So intrinsic motivators are the secret sauce. If you want to win for the long haul, here's what you need to focus on enjoyment of the task at hand enjoyment in your day purpose in your day growth.
In your day, curiosity, passion self-expression [00:41:00] and fun. You have to work hard on these things. They do not. And this is really important. They do not just turn up and say, Hey, I'm Mr. And gentlemen, I'm here to give you an enjoyable day. You got to work at these things. You've got to find the things that bring you growth and curiosity, enjoyment, and purpose.
You need to go out and work on these things. Intrinsic motivators. So let's frame this a little bit. Self-determination theory hit moonshots dot O a D I O. If you want to follow up on this, it's a landmark piece of work in a moment. We'll get to Daniel pink who built upon this and put it in context of work, which I think is super helpful for a lot of our moonshot is.
But Mo let's, let's think here for a moment, we've got this intrinsic versus extrinsic [00:42:00] motivation framework. When you look at this, how do you think we should apply this to ourselves? Let let's maybe apply it to you. If you look at the intrinsic motivator list here, enjoyment, purpose, growth, curiosity, and so on and so forth.
How can you use this? To improve your level of motivation? What, what comes to mind? Well, the, the thing that come came immediately to my mind, and it was reinforced by the first part of the show today, when we heard from, from our moonshot is, is the, the fact that intrinsic motivators are personal to me.
When I think about extrinsic, they are broader, you know, you mentioned pay rises, promotions, bonuses, and carrot on a stick. Those are things that could be applied to you or me or our listeners or anybody else in the world. Those are physical elements. Aren't they, when I then look at the intrinsic list, [00:43:00] as you just read out and as our listeners can check out in the frameworks, in the show notes, those feel much more personal to me, the things that I'm going to get enjoyment from.
Aren't necessarily going to be what my friends or my colleagues might get enjoyment from. Likewise, things that I'm curious and passionate about are going to be slightly different. So for me, when I'm thinking about all this conversation that we're, we're digging into in today's show, I've got to go back to what you said a second ago, which is it doesn't come easily.
And I see you've got to put in the work to understand or uncover. What are those intrinsic motivations for yourself? So for me, one of the practices that I try and do this, Mike, and it is something, you know, I'm early thirties and sometimes it's quite easy to get to a point where you're so focused on doing the job.
You actually kind of forget the value or the benefit of having hobbies or things that kind of give you that little bit of spark that you [00:44:00] might do on the weekends. Right? You might forget about it and maybe just be orientated around one problem that's in front of you. And this is a great reminder of putting in the time to actually find out, okay, well, what do I like doing and what motivates me?
And for me, one of the things that helps me doing, or at least uncovering these elements, these intrinsic motivators is to, you know, genuinely sit down and try and write something down. Maybe it's goals, maybe it's mantras, maybe it's journaling and something that enables me to think, okay, What do I want to do this weekend?
Or what do I want to be in six months time or a year's time or 10 years' time. And gradually, if you know where you want to go, maybe it's, it doesn't have to be, you know, CEO or a world famous podcast, host, whatever, whatever it might be, it could be something much smaller. You know, I just want to be able to run a 10 K marathon.
[00:45:00] Yeah, totally. When you can break it down and think, okay, well now I can just go out and find a way that matters to me and something that I can go and own and, and have fun doing. That's that's kind of where I get my motivation. Absolutely. So, so for me, it is being able to define in your work, in your personal life, the things that bring you purpose, enjoyment, growth, curiosity, et cetera.
I'm just going to be totally open about riff on what I think they are for me, just to kind of for you and for our listeners, just to get you thinking about this, because, because I think we don't spend nearly enough time asking ourselves what are, are intrinsic motivators and what did they look like?
In know? So enjoyment, what brings me enjoyment. I love being presented [00:46:00] with an opportunity to create something, the journey of building something, a product or a podcast. I really enjoy that process. I love doing it with people. So that brings me real enjoyment. My purpose. Well, I'm very clear, like I've, I've obviously read, start with why, and I know that my purpose is to help and to coach people to do bold and audacious new things.
Like I know that's my purpose growth. Every time I make a new master class for our clients and for our staff, that's a huge area of growth for me. So I love having to master different topics, curiosity, someone presenting a brand new framework to me and me going home. What is all that about? I love this.
Okay. I gotta, I gotta decode this, you know, passion. What am I passionate about? What am I Where am I expressing myself? So whether it's [00:47:00] podcasting or things like that, those are great moments of self-expression and doing it together with people is so much fun. We recently mark you and I launched this big product for Anastasia Beverly Hills.
It's a very complex mobile app and we had challenges. We had great laughs and seeing it all in the press. Now, I mean, how fun is that? What, what a roller coaster exciting ride of creating a brand new product? All I'm doing right now is going through this intrinsic motivator list and understanding, well, what is it defining where I find those intrinsic motivators?
Because I think if, once you found what they are, you can start to ask yourself, am I doing enough of them? Because here's the. The more you do of these, the more motivated you get. So one of the things that comes to my mind is I know that I'm terrible at detailed operational [00:48:00] and financial reporting, not interested, it doesn't come naturally to me.
So you know what I do, I find amazing people who are much better than me to do it, so I don't have to, and I can spend more time doing what I'm good at. So I think what's de-motivating is when you're doing things that don't bring you the enjoyment, the growth, et cetera. I mean, as I go through those, do, do you think you can do more work to better understand your intrinsic motivators?
How do you, as you hear me just talking, does it stimulate you? Does it challenge you? Do you go? Hmm. Do I really know where my passion is? I mean, what's your, what's your it's it's, it's very, very. Confronting actually. And for those listeners who maybe haven't gone into Simon Sineck and start with why, and really dug into their purpose, you know, honestly it can be really difficult, you [00:49:00] know, it can be quite challenging to actually uncover what that purpose is.
And actually to be honest, like I mentioned a minute ago, it's actually sometimes quite hard to understand what you actually enjoy because you've got so many distractions, there's so much digital notifications and so on that is quite hard to really focus down on what do I actually love doing? And for me, yeah, I think I get enjoyment much like the example you said a second ago from the results.
So I like being able to get to a point of delivery. Maybe it's an application, maybe it's a project. Maybe it's a product. Maybe it's something else. Maybe it's training a dog or whatever. It might be running a race, finishing the race, being able to look back and say, okay, well I get enjoyment from the completion piece.
So actually my purpose is how do I uncover my milestones in order to get me there. And then that kind of naturally leads me into this kind of growth mindset of, [00:50:00] okay, well, let's go out and challenge myself to, you know, run in the rain or do a little bit extra long distance or maybe go a bit faster or really try and seek out projects that I haven't necessarily done before.
That's that's the sort of thing where I need to catch myself because it's very easy to make excuses. Isn't it crazy to say now it's somebody else's job. I don't have to do this right now. I'm already too busy. And the truth is while you're only as busy as you say you are, right. That's right. And, and so I think, you know, the way I would use this intrinsic motivator list and the encouragement I'd give to all of our listeners is try and write down on these intrinsic motivators a moment in your day where you experience enjoyment, purpose, growth, et cetera, really try and define it and then ask yourself my personal checklist.
Look, if, if I can kind of have an intersection with one of those each [00:51:00] week, because I know there's going to be hard work and responsibility and things that are maybe not your favorite things, but you just have to do them. I think it's a question of, am I doing enough of these things, or am I spending a lot of time doing things that are opposite of this that are de-motivating because actually you'll find like a natural flow state.
The more you are practicing in an area where you are naturally meant to be, and notice I'm not using the word, just follow your passion. I think that's very dangerous. And we heard, heard Cal Newport do a good tear down of that. I think what we're saying is it's got to have purpose and growth as well as some passion, but enjoyments of expression.
And I would challenge all of the listeners to say, Hey, am I doing enough of this? And the perfect, this is the perfect bridge to the work of Daniel. Yeah. So Daniel pink took the this [00:52:00] theory of self-determination and he built upon it in his book called drive. And you will already a sense that there's these keywords of purpose, mastery, and autonomy, and there is so much in there.
So let's now have a listen to Daniel pink. Who's going to take this self-determination theory to the next level. I want to make a case for rethinking how we run our businesses. Take a look at this. This is called the candle problem, and here's how it works. I bring you into a room. I give you a candle, some thumbtacks and some matches.
And I say to you, your job is to attach the candle to the wall. So the. Doesn't drip onto the table. And eventually after five or 10 minutes, most people figure out the solution, which you can see here. The key is to overcome. What's called functional fixedness. You look at that box and you see it only as a receptacle for the [00:53:00] tax, but it can also have this other function as a platform for the candle.
Now, I want to tell you about an experiment using the candle problem done by a scientist named Sam Glucksberg. He gathered his participants and he said, I'm going to time you, how quickly you can solve this problem. He offered rewards. He said, if you're in the top 25% of the fastest times, you get $5.
You're the fastest of everyone we're testing here today, you get $20. How much faster did this group have solve the problem? Answer. It took them on average three and a half minutes, longer, three and a half minutes long. Now this makes no sense. If you want people to perform better, you reward them, right?
Bonuses, commissions, their own reality show, incentivize them. You've got an incentive designed to sharpen thinking and accelerate creativity. And it does just the opposite. These [00:54:00] contingent motivators. If you do this, then you get that work in some circumstances. But for a lot of tasks, they actually either they don't work or often they do harm.
Think about your own work or the problems that you've faced, or even the problems we've been talking about here are those kinds of problems that they have a clear set of rules and a single solution. No, those if then rewards don't work economists at LSE looked at at 51 studies of pay for performance plans inside of companies.
Here's what the economists there said. We find that financial incentives can result in a negative. Impact on overall performance. There's a mismatch between what science knows and what business does. And here's what science knows. One, those 20th century rewards. Those motivators we think are the natural part of business do work, but only in a surprisingly narrow band of circumstances.
Those if then rewards often [00:55:00] destroy creativity, three, the secret to high performance isn't rewards and punishments, but that unseen intrinsic drive the drive to do things for their own sake, the drive to do things because they matter. I rest my case
oh, Daniel pink, delivering the goods in that clip and in his book drive, I mean, he's purely reinforced this concept of intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation from a scientific perspective. And as you say, Mike, our listeners should definitely dig in further into, into his book if they want to understand more about the science behind that.
But for me, Mike, it's, it's just a really interesting juxtaposition because I think as I was maturing through my career, the idea of the carrot on the stick was. Well, I guess almost drilled into you from day one. Isn't it? Well, if you deliver this project, you'll get promoted or you'll get a bonus. And that actually has proven through any pink and the [00:56:00] work of Ryan and deci is, is not the case.
And it's kind of surprising, right? And it's also why companies that have more vision and purpose and some reason for being other than just making money, attract people so much. And why the chance to be autonomous to follow your personal purpose at work becomes so much more compelling than just a pay rise or a bonus, because I believe particularly of our show, we're all, all our listeners are in the search of mastery, right?
They want to be the best version of themselves. And I think what Daniel pink has laid out for us. And again, hit the show notes, moonshots.io. This is the next framework. His employee motivation framework is the intersection between what's your purpose? What are you trying to master? And your ability to be autonomous.
[00:57:00] If you can get all of those three and you've got to work hard, get them all three happening at the same time, same place, same person you will have as his book is called. Drive. This natural energy that we heard from Gary Gaga and Goggins, you will have it too. So let's, should we break this, this framework demo?
What do you reckon? I'd love to break it down and I'll do my best listeners too, to be honest and open and hopefully at home you're you're playing along too. So the key thing here is that yeah. Your purpose is your why? Like, what am I trying to achieve another way of saying it is what's your legacy and a B you know, who do you want to be remembered as that's really your purpose.
Now, if that intersects with mastery, okay. So there's, this is your practice where you keep learning and growing, you will experience this [00:58:00] natural thing is discipline come a lot easier because you're doing something that really matters to you and you're growing in it. So you'll be quite discipline that it now, on the other hand, if you're doing something, that's your purpose and you can be autonomous is creates all sorts of design.
He's like, Hey, I'm free to pursue my dreams. Great design. Let's go. If I'm autonomous and have the ability to grow well, that's, I'm pretty dedicated to that. Cause that's quite satisfying. But when the purpose and the mastery and the autonomy all intersects. Then you will experience enormous derive. You will have you hear it in the voice of Goggins Gaga and Gary V you will have drive.
So you opportunity using this employee motivation framework. I'm Daniel pink. You can ask yourself, how do I improve my purpose? How do I improve the practice of [00:59:00] mastery? And how can I be more autonomous self-directed in control? If you can do those things, you will shift it into fifth gear. Won't always be alike easy, but it will come easier if you have these things lined up.
What do you think, mark? This is a great framework from Daniel pink. When you hear this, is there one of these that stick out purpose, mastery, autonomy? Which one are you drawn to? Which one are you fascinated? Is one, a bit of a mystery or how does it work for you? Yeah, you know, there's nothing quite like.
In fact, we were talking about this the other day. You and I away from the show we, we delivered a project or a part of the work and we were reflecting on the. I guess the confidence or the satisfaction that comes with being able, able to turn around to, to a customer or whoever it might be and say, yeah, we got this, we know the process and [01:00:00] here's the solution and feeling that element of mastery, or maybe it's confidence and competence.
Hmm. He's a great motivator. And when you cross that into the autonomy perspective, and we feel complete ownership over that, right? This is mine. I manage it my time, my work, my, my level of attention and so on and so forth for me, the mastery and the autonomy or that dedication part of the diagram is what kind of sparks me and gets me going.
I think the area for me that I want to go and work more is the relation to the me part, the purpose part, because I have a feeling that if I was open and honest, and I looked at the employee motivation theory framework from pear. Purpose is probably the piece that I'm maybe a little bit softer on. I'm probably less inclined to maybe step into into that area and really [01:01:00] own it.
You know, I, I feel very driven or maybe I'm motivated by the autonomy piece than the delegate delegation. The fact that it's all about me or at least it's my responsibility in the mastery. I enjoy having to learn new stuff, but if I'm honest, the purpose piece, I'm probably willing to put to one side and that's a disservice because then maybe the lessons that I'm learning in the ministry and the autonomy that I'm delivering project suffers because of that lack of purpose.
Does that make sense? Yeah, but isn't it great that we can find frameworks like this apply it to ourselves and you get this insight. I need to go work on purpose. Right? Isn't that great? Isn't it interesting that we can go through, you know, the Goggle Goggins and the Gary V's and when we actually take a step back and look at the real science of motivation, something that we might think, oh yeah, well, I got this.
You actually take a moment to pause, to breathe and challenge yourself. Remember [01:02:00] motivation as we're finding out is, is ownership. Isn't it. It's taking ownership of that's where for me, if I'm reflecting on myself, that's where I can own it. That a little bit. And look, the truth is we can all you, me, all of Alison's.
We can all work on some part of this framework, whether it's being clear on our purpose, challenging ourselves to the level of mastery in being in the search of autonomy. The great news is. With both the intrinsic extrinsic framework and this employee motivation framework, what we're giving to you, our listeners is the chance to check in, to review and to evaluate and use the science of motivation from the masters of motivation and really take yourself to the next level.
So you've been primed with all that energy from Gaga Goldman's and Gary V we've done the science, but here's the [01:03:00] crazy thing, because this is the master series. We now bring it home with our daily practices. So this last section of the show, we're going to focus on building the habits. We're going to focus on making this a reality every single day.
We've asked how we do. We've got the answer so we know what we need to do, but it needs to become, or a habit more importantly, it needs to become a lifestyle. So we've got two big thoughts for you here. We've got one from Jordan Peterson and last one from none other than James clear, Mr. Atomic habits himself.
So we've got a lot coming up. So if you need to pause right now, reflect on the two frameworks. We don't. That's totally cool. That's what the master series is all about. If you need to hit the show notes, if you need to research something, before we go to the daily habit part, [01:04:00] that's okay. If you're ready to keep going and look, I could see myself listening to this show several times, maybe once straight through and the second time pausing it at things at moments that I really need to, to work on.
We are going to keep charging on and we have been so blessed to find such a wide selection of people who give us the right, thinking around motivation. So we've done Navy seals, we've done a fabulous entertainment musicians in performance. We've done hardcore science and research. Now we're going to get a little psychological, maybe even a little bit philosophical.
And the guy to do that with is Jordan B. Peterson. You really have to start comparing yourself in some ways to other people. And the reason for that is that the particularities of your life are so idiosyncratic that there isn't anyone really, all that much like you, you know, because the details of [01:05:00] your life happen to matter.
And so maybe you compare yourself to some rock star or something like that. And you know, the person's rich and famous and glamorous and all that, but you know, they're alcoholic and they use too much cocaine and they've had three divorces. How the hell do you make sense out of that? Is that someone that you should judge yourself harshly against or not?
My answer is you don't know, cause you don't know all the details of their lives and who do you know that you can compare yourself to? That's easy you yesterday. So here's a good goal. It's something like, well, aim high. And I really mean that it's like, and we'll talk about that a little bit to aim high, but use as your control yourself.
It's like, so your goal is to make today some tiny increment better than yesterday. And you can use better. You can define better yourself. This doesn't have to be some imposition of external morality, you know, you know where you're weak and insufficient, where you could improve think, okay, well this is what I'm like yesterday.
If I did this little thing, things would be just an [01:06:00] increment better. And that's a great thing because you get the ball rolling. Incremental improvement is unstoppable. You can actually implement it. And it starts to generate Pareto distribution, light consequences. It starts to compound, and I've seen that happen in people's lives over and over.
And people write all the time and tell me that they're doing that, but I've seen that happen in people's lives. Continually. They make a goal that the goal should be, how could I conceive of my life so that if I had that life, it would clearly be worth living. So I wouldn't have to be bitter resentful, deceitful, arrogant, and.
Hmm, I it's great to rehear Jordan Peterson's rule here, you know, focus on yourself and, and if you're going to compare yourself to anybody, do it to your own behavior as per yesterday, this idea of incremental growth again, ownership, isn't it. Mike, it's referring back to role. Think about [01:07:00] yourself.
Where were you yesterday? What did you accomplish? What were your lessons that you almost want to get better at today? Maybe through the act of writing it down journaling or as Peterson says, have that goal in mind and try to incrementally get better. There's a, quite a lot there to break down those. Oh, totally.
And the interesting thing is that what Jordan Peterson is saying is. Start incredibly simple. If you want to build a daily habit of improving yourself and avoiding all that, of those terrible vices here, he ended with just say, Hey, how did I do yesterday? And can I do it a little bit better today?
Right? That's all he's saying because there's only one person in you really know and that's yourself. And I think it's what is also powerful here. Stop worrying about the success of your neighbor and saying, [01:08:00] oh my gosh, they're doing so good. Just we're all to different fighting different battles, different circumstances.
Just literally make it really clear. Just evaluate yourself against yourself. Now the hard thing here is you have to be honest and Frank with yourself and that's, that's a real, real challenge, but start with measuring what you do and really focus on getting better. In yourself because I believe satisfaction and fulfillment can be truly enjoyed.
When you know that you ran that distance that you said you would, when you said I'm going for a job in the morning and you do it. When you say I'm going to write a thousand words and you do it, when you say I'm going to deliver a great looking deck and you do it, you knew the goal you reached it. I think part of this is us being way too preoccupied with other people.
But also [01:09:00] I think Mike, a lot of us just. Run the risk of stumbling from day to day and not really asking yourself, am I making myself deliberately better? I think, I think that's the real challenge with Jordan's advice here. Don't you think? Yeah. And, and again, it reminds me of a lot of the, the elements that were coming up in part one of today's show, you know, not being influenced or defined by others.
You know, Gary V was calling out that everybody's got issues. Well, that's fine. That gives you the permission to focus on your own and understand your own motivators because nobody else is going to cry for you. Nobody else will help you figure out how to stop dwelling on insecurities or anxieties or issues.
And he's really calling this out again and that comparison or that connectivity between each of them. Moonshot is the superstars. It just, [01:10:00] again, reiterate this science that we heard halfway through the show around motivation being entirely intrinsic. You know, it just feels like everything's connected here.
Yeah, it certainly does. I think life gets a lot easier when you just say, okay I'm just going to benchmark myself against myself because in fact, that's the person that I know the best. It makes so much sense. I think being really accountable to yourself is takes place in having a to-do list, having a a journal, doing reflections and gratitudes.
I think it's also about having a clear sense of your purpose. Maybe even do something that, that I have is I have a little set of questions that helps me evaluate every single. And that's across all parts of my life and that's where I can really I, every, every Christmas break, I take [01:11:00] the time to go through that and ask myself, how did I go?
Right? What's the scorecard, whatever works for you have a scorecard for yourself. Don't worry about the neighbor, focus on yourself, but this still leaves us thinking, mark. Well, you know, like, so what was the guru of habit creation have to say about this? Doesn't it? Yeah, it does. And the guru that I think we've all heard from and referred back to is Mr.
James clear in his work on atomic habits, isn't it, Mike? You know, he was one of our firm listener favorites on the moonshot show, and I believe that this concept of incremental. Growth than Peterson was referring to is probably influenced significantly by James clear. So we've got a clip here that introduces us to James Claire's idea of improving 1% every day, talking about this one, 1% every day.
You know, when people hear that in their minds, they're just like, [01:12:00] oh, it's so tiny. It doesn't matter. What, what, what, what is the thought process behind this 1%? Every day? Okay. Well, so just a quick story that I like that I feel like illustrates the point. So we're in the UK and for many years, the British cycling team was very mediocre.
They had never won a tour de France. Even though the race had been around over a hundred years, they had won, I think, a single gold medal back in 1908. And so they brought in this new performance director, 2003. And he believed in this concept that he called the aggregation of marginal gains. And so he described as like the 1% improvement in all the areas related to cycling.
And so they started by making 1% improvements that other teams were probably looking at to put slightly lighter tires on the bike. They had their riders wear these electrically, heated over shorts to keep their, their legs warm so they could ride for longer. They Had different biofeedback sensors that each rider would wear.
And then [01:13:00] they adjusted the programs, each individual, but again, competitive field, a lot of teams are doing that. So then they did a bunch of, 1% changes that nobody else was thinking about. Like they hired a surgeon to come in and teach them how to wash their hands, to reduce the risk of catching the cold or getting a flu.
They split, tested different types of massage gels to see which one led to the fastest form of muscle recovery. They they even figured out the type of pillow and mattress that led to the best night's sleep for each rider. And then they brought that on the road with them to big events, like when they were at hotels for the tour de France and things like that.
And so Brailsford said, all right, if we can the coach that if we can actually do this right, execute all these little 1% changes, then I think we can win the tour de France then. Right now he must have had to really sell people on this. Cause you can already see the naysayers and we're in Britain as well, where they're going to be like, come on.
This is ridiculous. Right. Well, and it just, no single change seemed like very much. Right. So one of the changes they made was they had. Outdoor riders switched to indoor racing suits [01:14:00] because they tested them in a wind tunnel. And it turns out the indoor suits were a little more aerodynamic, which, you know, you think, alright, whenever I got like basically skin tight clothes on either way, how's this going to make much of a difference.
Anyway, so they did in fact, execute on all these little changes and they won the tour de France, not in five years, but in three years. And then they repeated again the fourth year with a different writer. And then after one year off, they've now won the last three in a row against they've won five, the last six now, after having never won it for more than a hundred years.
And so I bring that story up not because I think, you know, cycling is the perfect example or anything, but just because it's a good story that showcases the power of being committed to making those small improvements each day. And I think that it's not just nice to have, it's not just like a little cherry on top of your performance to make these 1%.
But they actually can compound and add up in a really significant way in the long run and habits are a lot like that. They're, they're not exactly like compound interest, you know, where you kind of like, it hit that hockey stick [01:15:00] portion of the curve, but they really feel like that a lot. You know, like we were saying just a few moments ago, it feels insignificant on any day, but then you turn around 10 years later and it's actually, you're surprised by where you end up.
And that's a hallmark of any compounding process that the greatest returns are delayed. And so habits are like that too. You know, they, they don't feel like much on any given day, but they really add up over the, oh my gosh, what an amazing story. What a great. It's just a perfect story for motivation, right?
Yeah. It reminds you that these small benefits, you know, I can almost imagine in the, in the team's locker room and then at the end of the science advisors around them questioning, well, look, if you're changing the suits, is that really gonna put us in first place? Shouldn't we be focusing on something else and that compound elements a little bit over here, the suits, the sleep, the shorts, the [01:16:00] tires added altogether, and it's the sum of those parts.
I mean, what a great story that brings to life, the value of compound interest. Totally, totally. The the perfect thing that this does is sets us up to understand that if we can work on small things every single day, Over time. There is incredible results at the end of it. And this works so nicely in conjunction with the thinking from Daniel pink, what we heard from the three GS at the start, but to round this all up, like if you're thinking about, well, okay, where do I start?
We have the perfect starting point. We have two. Questionnaires that you can get from the show notes at mentioned studio, and they've got lots of questions in them that will give you great inspiration to jump in and to tackle something, to improve your [01:17:00] motivation, to improve your journey towards achieving the very best you can achieve to being the very best version of you.
The first thing that we've got is the intrinsic motivation inventory. Now, this was actually used in the theory. This was the basis of the research that was done for the self-determination theory. So you can actually use use the very same questionnaire they get. If two people, while they did tasks and it asked them about their level of interest in the task, their competence in the tasks, the effort importance, how much pressure there was, choice value and relatedness.
And this was really powerful because it came in this landmark theory and we've found it. We've put it in the show notes so you can use it too. It's got some good stuff that helps you evaluate a task, but mark, there's also another great author. [01:18:00]A guy called Daniel Goldman, who wrote a lot about emotional intelligence and he came.
With a very good four-part inventory of motivation. And these are kind of statements that you can ask yourself. How much do I identify with these now? We've got four areas, mark. So I thought to finish the show, we will play a game. You can pick a, an area and we'll play around and I'll ask you a few of these.
So we've got area number one is personal drive. Number two is commitment. Number three is the area of initiative and the fourth one is. Optimism. And if you choose one of these, we'll then try out some of these statements. So we can actually show to those things how you can use a set of questions like this.
I mean, me and I hope our listeners would agree the first column [01:19:00] or the first element that we would, that you were introducing there. The idea of personal drive is what I feel most connected to after listening to the Gary's and the goggles and the goggles. Yes. Peterson. So you want to do personal drive?
Let's do personal drive. Okay. So this is a way to evaluate where you are with motivation, and hopefully this will lead you to some things that maybe you want to focus on or put some effort into. So the first statement on, in really this is kind of like how much do you agree with this? I enjoy taking responsibilities for new projects.
Out of interest and willingness. That was a very interesting qualifier that they'd put in here.
Look, it's funny without the qualifier, it'll be very easy to say. Yeah, sure. I enjoy taking responsibility. It's bring it on. But when you add it out of interest, I am I learning something? Am I genuinely interested in it? And the willingness to expose myself to maybe a level of commitment and [01:20:00] responsibility, you know, that that does make it harder to, to guarantee doesn't it?
I don't know whether I could honestly, to you and I'll listen to say that I agree with a 10 out of 10 because they're ill. That will be a part of me that will maybe push back, I suppose, is the best word. Yeah. Moments when I'm forced into owning or taking responsibility for a project that maybe I'm not totally interested in.
You know, there'll be an ego part of my brain will say, nah, I'm, I'm better than this. So what you could do. So let's actually put this into action right now. You could make a list, try and make it as polar as possible projects that would, or activities that would get a 10. And those that would only get a five.
And then what you say is to your colleagues, Hey guys, give me these ones that look like the tents. Don't give me fives because I'm not [01:21:00] going to do a great job. That's nice. It's the ownership. Yeah. And then what happens? They're like, oh great. Oh, mark loves these kinds of projects. We got a ton of those.
Let's give them all to him. And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Love them. All of a sudden your motivation goes through the roof because you're like, I got rid of the crap ones and I only do the Google ads. I think there's not to try and step away from motivation at all. But what's interesting about that approach.
Again, I quite like that on it. I'm going to put it into practice. You, you are showing your colleagues and your teammates, what your maybe good at what you're passionate about because nobody else will necessarily know not as well as you as well as you. Right. So if I'm finding that I'm very de-motivated and I'm miserable about a particular job or a project.
Why do I blame them for exposing me to the situation? When actually I could put out my hand and say, Hey guys, look, no offense. I feel like I'd be better off. Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly what you do, you take [01:22:00] control, right? Yeah. But also you engineer your day to being more 10 out of closer to 10 out of 10 and then five out of 10.
How good is that? She feels, it actually feels really good. Doesn't it? All right. Let's try it. Listen, let's keep going. I'm going to go to some others in personal drive that are a bit different. Okay. Here's one. I readily accept task, even if they are not within my job description. I do try and do that.
I, at least, at least I try to the truth is whether I do them well or not. I don't think that really matters. You know, the, the, the, the point of the, the, the Goldman's you know, elements here in questions is whether you go and expose yourself to them. Right. I do believe. Again, from maybe a, perhaps an egotistical element.
I believe that I do accept jobs like that. That are maybe outside of my, my invoice a couple of day job, job description. Yeah. Yeah. [01:23:00] Okay. So that's good. So what I would do is make an inventory of some that were really really rewarding so that you can be like, Hey, if we've ever got something that looks like this, just because it's not on my JD, you can still give it to me.
Cause I really like it. And there's also yeah, because then, Hey, there's growth doing something different, right? Yeah, it reminds me, you're you're, you're totally right. I quite like that element again. It's it's the ownership and, and putting up your hand and saying, Hey, you know, I, yeah. Most to this challenge.
Hmm. And, and going back to our intrinsic motivation, that's where that passion, that curiosity really comes into play. If you can identify it and maybe even go and put it behind an article. Yeah. So, so the again, both of these questionnaires serve as really good provoking [01:24:00] things that are based on the science of motivation.
Right? Here's another one. We'll do two more and then, and then hopefully everyone is so fired up. They're already doing this and put us on pause. Okay. I'm open to criticism and willing to improve myself for my betterment or whoa. That one's pretty confronted. It is something for me, Mike, it's something that I, I work on, I think.
Yeah. It's, it's through the act of digging into and learning out loud with superstars from moonshots, you know, we've covered Elon Musk. Who's had challenges we've heard from Yaka willing Cal-Maine ArtTable these individuals who have had challenges, I would not necessarily say that they. You know, criticism, Babs, maybe they have, you know, in the terms of Elon Musk and his American astronaut heroes who were almost rejecting his approach to inverter, gums, privatized space, he still [01:25:00] went out and, and was trying to improve himself.
Right. Or at least, yeah. I mean, he's heroes criticized in publicly. So I would say I'm, I'm open to it, but sometimes I struggle with maybe some of the feedback. It can be hard to let your ego get in the way. Sure. And, and how good is this that we have just done three questions of what I think we have a list here in the show notes at moonshot sorta.
I think there's going to be like 40 maybe. Yeah. I think you can use that. Will all scientifically improve your motivation. Wow. How good is that? How good is that? She's just very, very. And, you know, but also I, in my own sort of mindset, actually, Mike, these questions themselves, not only will they help identify what my motivations are, [01:26:00] but it will motivate me to go out.
And perhaps as you've just done with me, the exercise, we've just done reflect on what I do and don't enjoy and go out and seek other opportunities. It actually motivates me to go out and be exposed to new things. Yes. And take ownership for that. Not just saying, when will the world delivered to me my happiness?
When will the world? No, maybe I have to go out and get that thing. Wow. So, so mark we're at the end of the show and I, so I need to ask you from all of the work that we've pulled together here, what, what really stands out to you? We've got a complete overview, a guide, a playbook to motivate you. What stands out to you?
What was the biggest surprise of our show today? Well, you know, the biggest surprise was how scientific you can get with something [01:27:00] as almost emotional, as motivation and motivation. You know, in my mind would have been a mindset that is personal to me, it's a theory, or it doesn't necessarily have any groundings in reality, so to speak.
But actually, as we've gone through the work of deci and Ryan and Daniel pink has a great way of bringing it to life improves this, the elemental concepts of motivation are based in science and exposure and opportunities to guard and challenge yourself will then improve or maybe change the way that you find rewards and recognition.
That for me is just so fascinating. That you can connect something as personal to me as motivation to proven science. Totally. Mine is just something that you assume like motivation just you either have it or you [01:28:00] don't. Yeah. What I think we revealed is this is something that it's not innate. Like you have to work on this thing, right?
You have to work on it day by day incremental. And that James clear breakdown of, of you know, getting that a little bit better every single day is just so helpful, I think. And making sure we don't feel overwhelmed by trying to change overnight. Exactly. Well, mark, thank you. Thank you to you for joining me on our first of the moonshots master series where we have given.
Epic journey, a deep dive into motivation, inspiration, understanding, and daily habit. We did it all. So thank you to you and thank you to all of our members who are listening to the moonshots master series today was such a big moment for the moonshots team. [01:29:00] And that is you, our listeners to the moonshot, as those of you who are trying to be the best version of yourself, we're all doing it.
And as usual we learned to out loud, so we could be the best version of ourselves. And today it started with the big three GS Goggins Gaga and Gary V inspiration, where we learned that we don't give up. We have to be relentless and fearless, and we have to earn every part of our success. But we also discovered the real science, so we could build an understanding of motivation.
We dove into self-determination theory. We dove into the work of Daniel pink, purpose, mastery, autonomy. It's all there for us to use. And we had an unusual collection of Jordan Peterson and James clear, both violently agreeing with each other, that you compare yourself with yourself and you work on yourself every single day.
[01:30:00] Just aim for 1% better. If you do all of these things, you will indeed be the very best version of yourself. Thanks for joining us on the moonshots master series. That's a wrap.