Ben "The Baker” Neumann | One Fight from the UFC… Then Everything Changed

🎙️ Episode 57: Ben "The Baker” Neumann | One Fight from the UFC… Then Everything Changed

What happens when a professional fighter questions whether his career aligns with his faith—and then finds clarity?

In this powerful conversation, Mark sits down with Ben “The Baker” Neumann—former MMA fighter, black belt in a Rickson Gracie lineage gym, and entrepreneur—to explore the deeper story behind his journey.

From growing up on a Midwest farm… to serving in Iraq… to stepping into the cage and building a professional MMA career with 15 wins, a title shot, and being just one fight away from the UFC—Ben’s path has been anything but ordinary.

Along the way, he wrestled with a critical question: Can I pursue this level of violence and still honor my Christian faith? What he discovered changed everything—and allowed him to compete with conviction, clarity, and purpose.

And then, something unexpected happened.

The nickname “The Baker”—which started as a fight gimmick—became his next calling. Today, he runs a high-quality bakery, channeling the same discipline, craftsmanship, and intensity he once brought to fighting into providing for his family and building something meaningful.
This episode is about more than fighting—it’s about identity, evolution, and becoming the man you’re called to be in every season of life.

✅ Lessons from farm life, discipline, and growing up in the Midwest
✅ How military service in Iraq shaped his mindset and resilience
✅ The journey to becoming a black belt in a Rickson Gracie lineage gym
✅ How Ben resolved the tension between Christian faith and professional fighting
✅ What it’s like to be one fight away from the UFC—and what it costs
✅ How a fight nickname turned into a full-time business and calling
✅ Why fatherhood reshaped his priorities and identity
✅ The tension between business, family, and faith for high-achieving men

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Which season of your life shaped you the most—your upbringing, your career, or becoming a father?

About the Lion Counseling Podcast
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps high-achieving men break destructive patterns, build emotional strength, and become the men God created them to be. Hosted by EMDR therapist Mark Odland and counselor Zack Carter, this show blends psychology, faith, and real-world experience to help men lead with clarity, discipline, and purpose.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.

Creators and Guests

Host

Mark Odland

Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Ben Neumann: 00:00

It was a main event for a local show, and the other guy was a really good striker at the time. He ended up getting on top in some scramble, and I went for a heel hook. I remember I had the heel hook pretty tight, locked up. I remember my mind thinking, Please please tap, don't let me break it. I did just tear it off.

Ben Neumann: 00:21

He ended up getting out, squirmed out, and then he knocked me out two minutes later. I got knocked out cold, Lost my first fight. That was before that fight, Mr. Arnabak, our instructor told me he was gonna give me my black belt if I won that fight. I didn't.

Ben Neumann: 00:36

I didn't get my black belt for a year later. And all of this just because I didn't want to do what was in the rule set which was to break this guy and because I didn't, I got knocked out which is some level of permanent damage. If you repair your PCBL, you can have surgery but there's no repairs long term for your brain depending on how simple you are to that stuff. After having that knockout loss, I thought about more. Then I talked to my pastor about it.

Ben Neumann: 01:02

I started talking to like, Is this something I should be doing as a Christian? Should I be fighting?

Mark Odland: 01:10

Right. Ben the Baker Newman. Welcome to the Lion Counseling Podcast.

Ben Neumann: 01:17

I'm very nice to meet you. Nice to see you again.

Mark Odland: 01:19

Yeah, it kind of feels like we're meeting again for the first time because it's been a while. Years. Yes, I had the privilege of you're probably coming up on 40 here. I'm around the time when I was turning 40, I had my mini midlife crisis and decided I'm going to start training MMA for the first time in my life. And it was awesome.

Mark Odland: 01:40

And I found Warriors Cove and I found Ben, I found you and you graciously welcomed me into your gym. I have fond memories of the dads training on one end the kids training on the other end. We're like, this is sweet. My whole family is getting involved in this. And it was awesome.

Mark Odland: 01:59

And then COVID shut everything down.

Ben Neumann: 02:01

Yeah.

Mark Odland: 02:01

And our family moved up to Duluth and I had this break from training for years before I got going again. I will say, even though now I'm old and injury prone and inconsistent with my training, I found that the foundation that I got from you at The Cove was like a really really good foundation to build on that served me well and I'm really really grateful for that Ben so thank you.

Ben Neumann: 02:28

No I appreciate it yeah you're always great to have a class and the family class is a fun format with the parents training same time as the kids and you know if you have a problem with the kid we can quick bring the parent in and be like, hey. Yeah. They did so much to help or whatever. I am missing the class.

Mark Odland: 02:44

Sure. For sure. Well, I know you've kind of before we started recording, were saying that you'll do some promotions a couple times a year for your this great business that you're a part of now and kind of life after professional fighting. But, you know, with my day job, right, as as a as a therapist, I'm just so interested in just the emotions, the psychology of what makes people tick and what kind of led them down the journey. So did I read right that you grew up in the Midwest?

Mark Odland: 03:12

Like Wisconsin, is that right?

Ben Neumann: 03:14

Yeah. I mean, just across the border, Hammond, Wisconsin is like twenty minutes past, you know, Hudson. We had a thousand head of beef cattle.

Mark Odland: 03:22

Oh wow. Okay.

Ben Neumann: 03:23

Yeah. Working on the farm growing up. Rest of my family, my cousins and my uncles wrestled. My uncles wrestled for Oklahoma in the seventies.

Mark Odland: 03:34

Oh, wow.

Ben Neumann: 03:35

Wrestling coach in Richmond. So my family and my cousins wrestled for Augsburg, won nationals, all that stuff. It was in my family, but I didn't get to do it. You know, he had a one sport rule growing up because he had to work on the farm so you can get one sport. And my daughters and sister chose baseball so I I went with that.

Ben Neumann: 03:53

I went with baseball.

Mark Odland: 03:55

Interesting. I

Ben Neumann: 03:56

played that all the way through. I I got once you know, I was the I was the third kid so, you know, the parents loosen up the rules by the time you get to a third kid. Yeah. By the time I got to high school, got to start doing some football and then senior year, I got to add in, you know, wrestling. So I tried I I tried senior year and just got smashed.

Ben Neumann: 04:13

I went like think I I lost my first 12 in a row. Oh my gosh. Because everyone's been wrestling since they were five years old in the Midwest. Know, if you're if you're competing high school wrestling, you've probably been wrestling since you were five. You know?

Ben Neumann: 04:23

Right. So I lost my first, like, 12 in a row. Ended getting, like, I think five or six pins by end of the season, you know, it was the worst people out there, I'm sure, if I was able to pin them.

Mark Odland: 04:34

Wow. But you stuck with it and got through the season and

Ben Neumann: 04:37

Yeah. The most frustrating thing ever. That's way yeah. It's way tougher than, you know, football or basic training or anything was your first year of wrestling for sure.

Mark Odland: 04:44

Dang. Yeah. So basically thrown into the fire. Oh, man. Okay.

Mark Odland: 04:48

That's interesting. It's the one sport rule. So you did not you're not one of these guys who started jujitsu when you were, like, five. Like, you.

Ben Neumann: 04:56

We had a little introduction to it in basic training but that was just a tiny little bit. By the time I was getting ready to go to Iraq the following year, we did a little bit more into it and my sergeant did some civilian side and he said, yeah, can just go to a gym and just sign up and they just punch you in the face and stuff. Like, no. Seriously, you can put on gloves and punch people. I didn't even think that was I didn't realize you could do that.

Ben Neumann: 05:19

That sounds awesome. I signed up to the Warriors Cove. Had one month break before I went to Iraq and I signed up with the Cove and I was driving to the St. Louis Park and the Burnsville and the old Little Canada location. It was actually at the taste of Scandinavia at the end of the line.

Ben Neumann: 05:36

That's where the old Little Canada Cove was. Right. And I trained every day for a month. My whole time in Iraq, was trying to get guys to push some masks together in the tents and like, hey, let's grapple. I got these books and it shows you how to do it and let's watch videos.

Ben Neumann: 05:50

That was No way.

Mark Odland: 05:52

Oh, that's super cool. Okay. Interesting. That's really interesting. Did you like wanting to do kind of hard things like that?

Mark Odland: 06:03

Where does that come from? This like a farm strong kind of mentality? What was it like?

Ben Neumann: 06:10

I've had a lot of things like like I really I guess I get hyper fixated on things yeah but also if it's difficult it doesn't determine if anything that's it makes it more interesting I really want to get to it like I I'm just I really wanna go into it if it's difficult. So like In your mind, before you join the army, think it's gonna be hard. In reality, basic training is really easy. You know, it's just a mental thing. But in your mind, it's a very scary thing.

Ben Neumann: 06:35

Like, oh, it's a huge challenge. I wanna do it. I was 17 years old and I could barely do, five pushups before, so I had to train for months before. I could do the bare minimum, you know, to pass the test. And, you know, I was a little chubby, running was hard.

Ben Neumann: 06:46

So to be able to get myself to have the discipline to run so I could pass the two mile before I go into basic training. So all that and in my mind is a big deal. In reality, basic training is not, you know, going to war can be obviously. But, and then, yeah, getting into MMA fighting eventually at that point, I'm like, well, this is the ultimate challenge. Like, Apart from actual combat, this is as close as you can get.

Ben Neumann: 07:07

It's the sport with the least amount of rules. It's as close to a real fight as possible. So in my mind, that's the ultimate competition. Want to do that.

Mark Odland: 07:14

Wow. Okay. That's interesting. So something really difficult that really that that actually kinda energizes you.

Ben Neumann: 07:24

Like Yeah. That's that's motivating. Yeah.

Mark Odland: 07:26

Yeah. That's motivating. Okay.

Ben Neumann: 07:28

Which meanwhile, have difficult sticking to things that aren't, you know, the monotonics are repetitive. Like, just like, hey, you should clean your gutters out, you know, twice a year. Like, I should do it. But I'm not and I'll get, know, unless my like, my wife was like, well, she was like, can you get the ladder out so I can do it? And like, well, you should be doing that.

Ben Neumann: 07:47

Like, I'll I'll okay. Finally, I'll do it. I'll get it. Yeah. And it's like things that once the once a task has gotten 80% of it done, I have trouble finishing the task.

Ben Neumann: 07:56

Know? Like, I'll get 80 I have a home project done in the last 20%. Like, I'm not it's motivating. Did I did the hard part. I could do it.

Ben Neumann: 08:03

I could finish it. I already know I could finish it now.

Mark Odland: 08:05

Right. So

Ben Neumann: 08:07

that's a a flaw there. I've noticed. But getting yeah. Getting a

Mark Odland: 08:11

little once you've kind of accomplished the hardest part, just getting a little bored with it and kinda like what's next.

Ben Neumann: 08:16

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's the next thing I should fixate on?

Mark Odland: 08:19

Okay. And you said you were the so you said you were, like, the third kid in your family?

Ben Neumann: 08:24

Yeah. My brother's four years older, and my sister's three years older.

Mark Odland: 08:28

Okay. Yeah. Things do loosen up a little bit by the third kid. We've got four ages 18 all the way down to seven. And right now our oldest is kind of like, dad, you were so much harder on me.

Mark Odland: 08:41

This is not fair. I'm like, Oh, honey, I'm so sorry. That's I

Ben Neumann: 08:45

know how to do it. Yeah, make up and roll There

Mark Odland: 08:48

is that. Yeah, there is that. Wow. Okay. So so growing up on the farm, did you was, like, MMA, UFC, any of that on your radar at all growing up when you're playing baseball?

Ben Neumann: 09:02

Nope. Like, it wasn't you know, this that would have been the nineties. Like, it wasn't even it was you were in the know if you knew what anime even was in the nineties, know? Like, very few people knew what that was back then. I think the first time I saw it was I saw, like, a I had a small clip of it late night.

Ben Neumann: 09:16

I think freshman year of college. It was pretty cool, I never googled to see what it was. But then it really was that following year in Iraq when I started some people in the army knew about it and then get some DVD. I found out you can torrent it and download. You start downloading the original UFC.

Ben Neumann: 09:33

Then he started rewatching from UFC one all the way through to catch up, that was when, you know, Matt Hughes was champ. And I was like, oh, he's a farmer. He's Iowa boy. I gotta root for him.

Mark Odland: 09:41

Yeah. Right.

Ben Neumann: 09:43

And so he was my favorite fighter for a while. And then, you know, GSP. Oh, he's even he's actually, classier and nicer and he's more respectful.

Mark Odland: 09:53

That's awesome. Yeah, classier and nicer. That's interesting. Did you feel like I mean, it's funny. We reconnected because I was like, oh, I bet Ben would like this interview with Dan Severn that I just did.

Mark Odland: 10:06

And, you know, wrestler first wrestler in the UFC, all this stuff. But it seemed like he kinda went through some of that. How do you, like, be a decent guy and be a fighter? And, like, where where how do you integrate, like, your moral code once you enter the the cage? Or or is that, like, now we're in a different set of rules.

Mark Odland: 10:25

Now it's okay to kinda put that to the side. Or, like, how did because you've always struck me as someone who's tenacious on the mat and deadly, but also like a genuinely nice guy. And so like how did you work that out?

Ben Neumann: 10:38

Yeah. I struggled with that at first. At first, I thought it was too much like the rest of your life where you shouldn't make any exceptions for the occasion. My third my third or fourth fight, it was a main event for a local show and the other guy was a really good striker at the time. And I got he ended up getting on top and some scramble and I went for a heel hook.

Ben Neumann: 11:04

And I remember I had the heel hook, like, pretty tight, like, locked up. I remember my mind thinking, please tap. Please tap. Don't let me break it. And I did just tear it off.

Ben Neumann: 11:13

And he ended up getting out, squirmed out. Oh. And then he knocked me out like two minutes later. Oh, man. I got knocked out cold.

Ben Neumann: 11:20

Damn. Lost my first fight. That was before that fight, mister Arnold Beck, our instructor told me he was gonna give me my black belt if I won that fight. I didn't. I can get my black belt for a year later.

Ben Neumann: 11:30

So the whole you know, and all of this just because I didn't wanna do what was it in the rule set, was to break this guy. Because I didn't, I got knocked out, which is some level of permanent damage. Right? Right. And if you carry your PCL, you can have surgery, but there's no repairs long term for your brain depending on how simple you are to that stuff.

Ben Neumann: 11:49

Right. After having that knockout loss, I thought about more. Then I talked to my pastor about it. I started to go deeper, Is this something I should be doing as a Christian? Should I be fighting?

Ben Neumann: 12:00

You know, it seems a different level than just football, but then the more I thought about it, well, football, the intent is to hurt people too, you know? Yeah. We have these rules and I'm a girl, man, and I wouldn't have been offended. I'm not mad that he knocked me out. I don't think it's unchristian of him to knock me out.

Ben Neumann: 12:16

Why would I think it's unchristian for me to tear his ACL? I'm on mind, I think, hey. We're both girl men. We both signed a contract. We're both athletes.

Ben Neumann: 12:24

We both know the risks. As long as I'm following the rule set and I'm not cheating within the rule set, there shouldn't be any moral qualms there. So that's where I landed after that fight and kind of took that from then on. And from then on, yeah, like I was trying to win within the rules or however you can. Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 12:39

It didn't that didn't bother me anymore after that. But, the other thing I had a problem with was when I was younger, you know, at that time was getting easy wins. You fight someone and you win in two minutes and you realize, oh, this guy, let's we didn't know what he's doing. Like, I'm Yeah. Up.

Ben Neumann: 12:55

Yeah. And and I had heavy spice with my manager. I'd be like, like, I feel bad. Like, these guys some of these guys don't know what they're doing. Like, should I?

Ben Neumann: 13:03

You need to give me tougher guys, but he's experienced. He knows, like, in boxing, you should get someone five, six, seven, eight easier fights so they get experienced and nervous.

Mark Odland: 13:11

Sure.

Ben Neumann: 13:12

I was good at. Like, I would've gotten more comfortable with my striking had I listened to him. But I I just felt bad beating up people that I felt weren't competitive.

Mark Odland: 13:21

Sure.

Ben Neumann: 13:21

But in reality, it's dumb if you can avoid it to take competitive fights for your first five or eight fights. You should take uncompetitive fights. If you can, you

Mark Odland: 13:27

should. Right.

Ben Neumann: 13:28

If you wanna have a career and there's you know, like, they don't have a manager looking out for them, that's on them. You know? Like, that's what I should've done. Right. I didn't.

Ben Neumann: 13:36

So I rushed myself a little bit earlier to get tougher fights. I ended up getting knocked out. I ended up losing a couple in a row that I couldn't that I shouldn't have had to listen to my manager. So, those two things was like, Oh, I was trying to listen to my moral code at the time or what I thought was the best interpretation of what I should be doing. And they probably were mistakes, not moral mistakes, but mistakes career wise.

Mark Odland: 13:56

Yeah. Yeah. I but it's I suppose mean, it's hard. It's almost like you wonder, oh, could I go back in time? I've chosen differently.

Mark Odland: 14:05

But then at the same time, it's like who you are in that moment trying to, like, work it out mentally.

Ben Neumann: 14:11

Yeah. I know. Like, no one would have been able to talk me out of it. Maybe if there was a real strong Christian also that had a very identity fighting background that could have explained it to me the way I would try and explain this someone now. Maybe if I had met that person, they could have talked me into it.

Ben Neumann: 14:22

But having someone who's not a Christian tell me it's not a big deal. You know? Like, well, we have different moral compasses. Like, it's not a big deal for you, but it's a big deal for me at the time. So, like, it would've hard to talk about it unless someone could have talked to me through like, or my had I talked to my pastor earlier maybe Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 14:38

About it. You know, maybe I I but I didn't think to at the time.

Mark Odland: 14:41

Yeah. Well, I I appreciate you sharing that because I think that's I mean, I see that somewhat with, you know, my job as as a counselor because I typically work with I work with a lot of business guys, like a lot of people who are pretty high achieving guys, but the very traits that help them to succeed in the business world, which is its own kind of battle and competition, although not the physical consequences. Yeah, but trying to balance it all, a lot of them are men of faith, you know, so I think my sweet spot is Christian business guys, but in their own way they're trying to work that out too. Like how do I have integrity, but how do I not beat myself up for things where this is just part the landscape of kind of like what I'm doing here. And then how do you not burn out in the process?

Mark Odland: 15:35

How do you balance that with family life? Like you're saying, you're thinking about long term ramifications, and that's a lot. It's it's a lot to navigate.

Ben Neumann: 15:47

And the current version of, you know, people my age that are dads are doing much more family time than my dad. Right. My generation growing up and your generation growing up, if your dad was providing for the family, oftentimes you weren't spending much time with your dad. Right. I think that was most people's experience.

Ben Neumann: 16:08

So, like, you know, every once in while, get to play checkers. My my time spending time with my dad was if I went to do doing chores outside with

Mark Odland: 16:16

him for the most part.

Ben Neumann: 16:17

Right. You know? Yep. Like, every once in while, we play cards here and there. But either dad's tired or dad's working.

Ben Neumann: 16:22

Yeah. Whereas now, I'm trying to structure things differently. Spend a lot more time with my kids. I trade off time where I'm watching the kids and my wife's watching the kids and all that. But then, yeah, I'm also trying to build a business and it's hard when you're not putting all your time in your business to grow it fast enough to provide.

Ben Neumann: 16:39

Balancing Yeah, is difficult to find the right balance.

Mark Odland: 16:43

For sure. Yeah, and it's so interesting you bring that up because I think that's a theme that I think I've worked through too in my, you know, my my life is and I mean, some people know, like, the podcast, like, my dad passed away about four years ago. And that was kind of a pivotal, you know, pivotal thing as a guy to to lose your dad. And I have a lot of guys I work with who maybe their dad's gone, maybe he's still around, but it's kind of this common theme of, hey, I know my dad loved me. He was a great provider.

Mark Odland: 17:15

I know he did the best he could with the hand he was dealt, and I appreciate that, but there's also some things I wanna do a little bit differently.

Ben Neumann: 17:23

Yeah, for sure.

Mark Odland: 17:24

And that's cool. I mean, think that's like an evolution of just kind of who we are as men to kind of say, okay, How can I take the very best from my upbringing? Yeah. But then with this new knowledge and just kind of understanding, yeah, I think I would like to spend a little more time with with my kids, but I also want to make the business profitable, right? So it's like this constant tension.

Mark Odland: 17:46

I don't if you could ever escape it. It's hard. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, interesting. So, and you got a couple kids now, is that right?

Ben Neumann: 17:55

Yep. Yep. We had some fertility issues. It's unexplained, so maybe we'll get pregnant tomorrow. But who knows?

Ben Neumann: 18:03

Guess they say, I hear a quarter or a third of people that have fertility issues, they can't give you an answer and they don't know. Yeah. With all the testing, all that. Who knows? But we adopted our We went through a couple of things, but we ended up adopting our first daughter.

Ben Neumann: 18:19

It was a private adoption and it's open. Still have a good relationship with the biological mom. She comes to visit a couple times a year. So it's kind of like an aunt relationship. Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 18:32

More so is kind of what it's morphed into. And she's great. She doesn't live too far away, so that's good. Then we are so she's three. My daughter is Shelby.

Ben Neumann: 18:43

She's three years old. And then I just call her my daughter, but our we got a placement through foster care last summer. Okay. And she was six months old at the time, and now she's a little over a year. And, you know, it's still in the court process, but Sure.

Ben Neumann: 18:57

Family isn't terribly involved. So, we'll get the final decisions here soon. Okay. Good chance we'll be having her for a lot longer. Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 19:07

We'll find out more soon.

Mark Odland: 19:09

Well, that's wonderful. That's such a precious time. When you sent me the picture, I'm like, Oh, they're so It's you know, that's wow.

Ben Neumann: 19:20

Other times hilarious, you know, it's just too funny. Every day is hilarious.

Mark Odland: 19:25

So Yeah. I'm sure you've had those dad moments where you're like, yeah. You're being super naughty right now, but I just I'm laughing. I I wish I could be a consistent disciplinary, but, like, you're oh, this is just too funny. I just have to smile.

Ben Neumann: 19:38

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. You might as well listen to your life. I it would be Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 19:45

I guess I didn't think about it too much ahead of time, but I would have expected it. I would have expected it Everyone to be talks, complains about how hard And I'm sure some toddlers are more difficult than what we're experiencing. But Yeah. It's a blast 95% of the time. And when you have your meltdown, okay, fine two minutes later, we'll go back to bed.

Ben Neumann: 20:01

I'm like, all right, no big deal. You're a toddler, you're supposed to figure that out.

Mark Odland: 20:06

For sure. For sure. Yeah. That's awesome.

Ben Neumann: 20:10

Well, that just takes time. I get more room in the house. We only one bedroom for the kids. We got a three year old and one year old in the same room and we're gonna add a third and a fourth. We're gonna need some more rooms.

Ben Neumann: 20:19

We gotta figure that out.

Mark Odland: 20:21

Just keep building up. You'll have a skyscraper eventually.

Ben Neumann: 20:24

Yeah. Yeah. Town loves that. They they don't have any rules about Oh.

Mark Odland: 20:28

Here. Well man, if I remember right, you converted your whole garage into this industrial kitchen. I'm sure that'd be hard to think about how you could give that up to move because there's so

Ben Neumann: 20:40

much in there. Some Jenga pieces to move around. So basically, we do have two bedrooms in the basement. My wife's aunt lives with us. Okay.

Ben Neumann: 20:48

As she gets older, she might not want me doing those steps anyways and all that. Yeah. Kind of a plan. In a few years, hopefully, we can move the bakery out to commercial space.

Mark Odland: 20:55

Sure.

Ben Neumann: 20:56

My wife's aunt up into the bakery, remodel it as a flat. You know? And then we'll get two bedrooms back in the basement, then we can get a lot more kids. That's Alright. Good idea.

Mark Odland: 21:07

Wait. Wait. Your your your plan isn't to be like Helio Gracie and have, like, 20 kids. Is it?

Ben Neumann: 21:13

No, that would be fun. That's it. There are wild, some wild times over there.

Mark Odland: 21:18

Building an army of macho assassins. Yeah. Oh man. Okay, so I appreciate you sharing all that. That's really interesting.

Mark Odland: 21:29

The twists and turns of life and even going into like the spiritual piece of it. Like that's really cool to know how you kind of navigated through that. And it makes sense to me from what you're saying. Like this is two grown men signing on the dotted line for a specific rule set, and so to eventually embrace that makes a lot of sense. Or how could you keep doing it successfully, right?

Mark Odland: 21:52

Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 21:52

Yeah.

Mark Odland: 21:55

Has the faith piece always been a big part of your life? Did you grow up with that? Did it shift over time? I'd love to hear about that if you're open to share.

Ben Neumann: 22:04

Yeah. It was always a big part growing up and it always connected with me a lot. Like, a big part of how my rest of my life was shaped and formed is, you know, the basis in in my faith. You know, and, you know, especially going to Iraq, like, you know, the most Wow. I've ever had was on, you know, the months leading up to going to Iraq because I had a pretty safe job.

Ben Neumann: 22:29

I ended up having a pretty safe job on base running computer network. Like, you know, I just got done reading a book about the first years people going into into Iraq and how it was like this other unit was like a finance unit and they ended up kicking down doors for nine months and had like

Mark Odland: 22:42

Oh, man.

Ben Neumann: 22:43

For their platoon and like, you just never know. So I'm like, oh, man. You know? And so, yeah. Like, getting through all that, you know, gets you even closer.

Ben Neumann: 22:54

Then, you know, once you have kids, you got even more stuff to pray for.

Mark Odland: 22:58

For sure.

Ben Neumann: 22:59

Yeah. It's a big it's a big part of our even just our daily life and prayers and how do you teach the kids and how do you form what's right and wrong to explain to your kids what's right and wrong.

Mark Odland: 23:07

Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 23:07

And well, my wife's dad's a pastor. Okay. My wife plays for church plays piano for church three or four times a month and I teach to Sunday school. You know, we're decently involved with our time and stuff. But, yeah, that's what we try to, as best you can, be the guiding principles for

Mark Odland: 23:27

Yeah. That's awesome. That's that's really cool that yeah. You're totally right too. It really drives it home as parents because you're thinking, okay, how do I you don't just absorb like that reassurance, that faith through osmosis.

Mark Odland: 23:42

I mean, it's good to lead by example, but like to be able to intentionally try to raise your kids that way is important for sure.

Ben Neumann: 23:49

Yeah. I was reading some article the other day and it made sense to me. Was like, you know, maybe you saw this thing floating around the edge. It it's probably a made up story. But it was this I forget what, maybe like a seventh grade or sixth grade teacher a Christian school.

Ben Neumann: 24:03

And they're like, I said, like a normal homework, I'm gonna give you like, just like four questions. And it was like, you know, how can you defend your faith using logic? How can you explain that God is the only, you know, how how can you explain that everything came from God without using the Bible? How how can you use these things to, like, actually work through instead of just saying, well, it says things first, you know? And it's like and, like, not a single one of them could answer.

Ben Neumann: 24:24

And, again, it's probably made up story. But Well future. Like, you know, like, most parents, like, you need I I love thinking through both ways. I love explained con you know, arguing in my mind both Yep. Cons I should be able to argue with it secularly Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 24:39

And religious perspective. And and a higher truth is in a religious perspective, but it's a useful tool to go through the other version in your brain too of why it makes sense, how it helps you. I don't wanna let a lot of people that were Christians in the college years just completely lose it. They never thought of They music themselves at were just going along with emotions because you don't get in trouble with your parents if you go to church and you sing the hymns and you do whatever. Then they go to college and they've never really thought about it for themselves and they don't

Mark Odland: 25:07

Yes.

Ben Neumann: 25:08

Like, the second someone challenged them, why do you believe this? I don't know. Like, my parents said so. Okay, you're an idiot and they call you an idiot and then you give up on it, you know? Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 25:16

But I got so many people and then a lot of times they come back hopefully five, six years later once they made all their mistakes or whatever, but that doesn't always happen. A lot times they don't.

Mark Odland: 25:26

It's true. Yeah, I think that's really fair point, Ben. I mean, I imagine you've probably thought about this parallel as well. But as you're saying it, I think about, like, you know, some of one of the things you taught me way back in the day is under pressure, like in jujitsu, like, if you're in an uncomfortable situation to be able to just breathe, breathe, slow your breath down. And and you kind of get pressure tested to be able to be like, okay, this is uncomfortable, but but it can pass.

Mark Odland: 26:00

It will pass. And I don't have to panic right now. And I feel like in a way, what you're describing is kind of like being uncomfortable being being comfortable in uncomfortable situations, even facing your own faith, even facing, like like, does this is this just something my parents are telling me to believe, which I I wanna trust them, but, like, oh, actually, this is also logical. This also makes sense. There are reasons.

Mark Odland: 26:26

There's historical evidence. There's there's all these these things that line up so that hopefully when they get to college, their faith has been pressure tested. They they're not surprised by a weak argument from an atheist that sounds like it doesn't rock their world because you're like, oh, I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 26:45

Everything Yeah. Live. I've been in the Truman Show the whole time. Yeah.

Mark Odland: 26:48

Yeah. That's that's so cool. I think that that's a balance as parents too that we're navigating with our kids is how to not keep like, I don't know, how to preserve them from unnecessary craziness, but not keeping them so much in a bubble too that they're never able to

Ben Neumann: 27:04

Yeah. Each and each topic might be a different age where you want to think about like, yeah. My kid's three and I think about it all the time. Like, when are we gonna try and discuss this? Or how do I wanna work with them?

Ben Neumann: 27:15

At what age? Yeah. There's just a lot of big topics in living in the cities. There's a lot of things that are normalized around here that I don't want normalized for my family. We'll be homeschooling.

Ben Neumann: 27:23

The more I think about the more I think about giving them a lot of time at home. Yeah. Like, you know, doing a lot of protection.

Mark Odland: 27:33

Sure.

Ben Neumann: 27:33

But talking about it with us. Talking about the things early but not having to for them to, like, to be in the public school and fight back against it and be the only kid that's not doing the thing, you know? Exactly. But, like, I was I was I went to public school through eighth grade and I had went to Lutheran school for Uh-huh. High school.

Ben Neumann: 27:54

But I I I never minded being different. Like Yeah. It didn't bother me at all. Like, fitting in and stuff definitely bothered me at all. But, like, I was, like, the weird Christian kid I brought.

Ben Neumann: 28:04

Know, I bring my my picture bible to second grade and that's what I'm reading in in you know, at public school, you know, in silent reading time, you know, and, all that. So, like and but, you know, other family members more normal wanted to fit in, quiet themselves down, didn't you know? And Christian school helped them in a different way that they gave them more time to develop and to be able to stand up more. Whereas me, I'm like, well, it didn't bother me at all to be picked on for if I thought it was true. True.

Ben Neumann: 28:36

Like, didn't Yeah. Well, at least other one thing that doesn't bother me is I think it bothers other people. Sure. But, like, on purpose, have all of your kids be in that situation early. I don't think it's a good thing.

Ben Neumann: 28:48

Like, for me, for argument, I don't wanna put them through that because what if they have more of a need to feel fit in? They're probably not gonna do well standing up their face. They're probably going to make some mistakes if they're seven or 12 years old. I just don't want to have to risk that. I hope I can find ways to get them some rhetorical debates and practice assign my own homework assignments based around that.

Ben Neumann: 29:12

There's so many resources now.

Mark Odland: 29:13

Oh, yeah.

Ben Neumann: 29:14

We'll figure it out as we go.

Mark Odland: 29:15

That is so cool. And I suppose as exhausting and challenging as being a business owner can be, you do have a little more flexibility to do some of that

Ben Neumann: 29:26

things. I mean, our goal when I get the bakery in two or three years, the a larger facility is Yeah. You know, over buy so we can grow into it, also have extra office space in there. We have a little kids room. It'll be our homeschool room and that kind of stuff.

Ben Neumann: 29:38

So maybe me and my wife can have the kids in the morning while I go off to the bakery and get the employees going on stuff. And then after lunch, she can bring them over and I can do homeschooling subjects in the afternoon and then we can go to jutsu in the evening. That's my perfect world. I've been aiming for, which maybe half of that will come out. But yeah.

Mark Odland: 29:55

So it's a good it's a good dream that seems like has a good high chance of becoming reality at at one point here. That's awesome. I think you're no reason why that can't happen, God willing, right? And well that's okay, interesting. So you're I'm thinking back, like you said, going into Iraq, thankfully a job that's not quite as dangerous as some potentially, but and then you're trying to trying to roll out the mats and watch old videos and and Yep.

Mark Odland: 30:26

At this point, did you already know because you only trained at the Cove for, a month you said before. Did you already know, like, the lineage to Hixson himself? Did was that a thing for you? Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 30:36

So I was I was looking up Hixson schools. Is there a Hixson school anywhere? See, that's where I found the Warriors code. Like, I'm typing

Mark Odland: 30:41

Oh, that's how you found it? Okay.

Ben Neumann: 30:43

Gracie. I'm already reading about the Gracie's and, like, oh, is there is there a Gracie school anywhere? And then I know Hixson's the best. Yeah. So, yep, that was the selling point.

Ben Neumann: 30:52

It was the Hickson school.

Mark Odland: 30:54

That is so cool. And now, over the years now, did you met Hickson?

Ben Neumann: 31:00

Yes. Yep. Set drove down to Missouri for a seminar. He came up here for mister Ironbeck's black belt ceremony. So I think it was just those two times that I trained with him.

Ben Neumann: 31:13

It was kinda fun with the Missouri one. He he flew in on a Friday night and all the black and brown belts got to go there early for the Friday night with Hixson. So there was like 12 like black belts and like me as a brown belt like on the mat with Hixson. So a real small group. Kids do an hour, hour and a half of him going through principals and Wow.

Ben Neumann: 31:31

And stuff. And then it was like a I forget, like a four or six hour seminar at, a college campus or something the next day with, 300 people there sold out, you know. That's rolled out. Because, know, he doesn't he just he just less less a little over time as he's getting older and he had a lot of back

Mark Odland: 31:45

problems I I can't imagine why he'd have back problems.

Ben Neumann: 31:49

I mean Yeah. Yeah. I don't actually spot anyone at any weight class anytime. Yeah.

Mark Odland: 31:55

Oh, that's yeah. For anyone who's listening who hasn't gotten on the rabbit hole of, like, the early UFC and the Valley Tutto stuff and, like, the Gracie family, it is awesome. It's just so interesting. And how it just blew up like, I don't know. What a contribution to to martial arts, just like this acceleration.

Ben Neumann: 32:16

I for military and police.

Mark Odland: 32:19

Oh, yeah.

Ben Neumann: 32:20

It's not just us hobbyists. So many people are defending themselves because they had these tools that they couldn't have used just boxing. You know? If you're not that person, you're not gonna be able to knock someone out. Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 32:35

You're just not if you're smaller person, but you might defend yourself on the ground. You know? Yeah.

Mark Odland: 32:39

Yeah. You didn't just call yourself a hobbyist, did you, Ben?

Ben Neumann: 32:42

Absolutely. Thought. That's how mister Arnebeck always he always called me a hobbyist if they weren't, like, all in. Like, I I know I'm not all in right now, so right now I'm a hobbyist.

Mark Odland: 32:51

I only have, like, 15 professional wins as a as a MMA fighter. You know, I'm a hobbyist. Just just dabble a little bit. Okay. Now I was watching, I was kind of like, oh, I should probably do a little research before we do our interview today.

Mark Odland: 33:07

And I was watching an old interview you did. And is right that at one point the goal was the UFC for you?

Ben Neumann: 33:15

Yeah. I was oh, I would have loved it. Yeah. Was Yeah. I was working towards it.

Ben Neumann: 33:18

You know? I always put a caveat in something like same thing if someone asked me, am I trying like, that's equivalent of asking, do you wanna have the largest bakery in America? And I'd be like, well, no. Like, I wanna be like, I do wanna get bigger and more successful. I'm not always shooting for that.

Ben Neumann: 33:33

Like, the UFC is like, do you wanna get to the UFC? Oh, I would like to, but I know I'm not doing everything I need to do in order to get to that level. Like, I would not buy a house for my wife. We would live in an apartment, so I have to I would have to earn money, then I could then I could go join a college wrestling team while I'm training four hours a day. And I you know, I wouldn't have done the other things if I really, really was trying to be the best in the world.

Ben Neumann: 33:54

You know? Like, I just know not being, like, a natural athletic talent, would have to work extra hard to attain those things. So I was trying to get to the OFC without carving out more than three to four hours per day of training. And you need more than that, I think, to get to the OFC. Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 34:11

Yeah. So I was on the edge. You know, I lost a title fight, the opponent for Elefay. The opponent that beat me was flying to China, like, three months later for the UFC.

Mark Odland: 34:19

Dang.

Ben Neumann: 34:19

I was one I was one fight away, but he I mean, he crushed me. So it's not like it was a close fight. Yeah. But I one fight away from being in the u Yeah.

Mark Odland: 34:29

Well, that's that's that's incredible. I mean, do you when you look back on that time of your life, have you have you made peace with kind of how your professional journey ended? I mean, there any regret? Yeah. Tell me about that.

Ben Neumann: 34:42

No regret. You know, I miss it. You know, I'll always miss it. I'll be 70 and be thinking about the training times and partners and all the discipline it took to like, you're hungry all the time, you're working out, you're tired. And you know, just like I said, we enjoy difficult things.

Ben Neumann: 34:58

Very difficult thing to do. And so, you know, just think I don't know. Think of it fondly. You know? Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 35:03

Yeah. It's all positive. I whenever I look back at any part of my life, I always I tend to forget the negative things. I mean, that's why I have a happy disposition. I tend to forget the negative things.

Ben Neumann: 35:13

I don't focus on those. Just think about, oh, it was it was the great I don't know. You ask me in the middle of fight camp how's it going? I'm like, oh, this is awesome. This sucks.

Ben Neumann: 35:19

But looking back on it now, miss it. It's great.

Mark Odland: 35:22

I bet. Well, that's that's not something everyone can say that they have no regrets. They miss it. But yeah. I mean, I imagine too that transition because, I mean, maybe it was in in one of your interviews or maybe your news appearances, but that idea of a lot of fighters who put a 100% into it with nothing left on the table, That's part of why they get to the UFC, but also the things that have been neglected don't set them well up don't set them up very well for the rest of their life.

Mark Odland: 35:53

And there can be kind of a pretty big crash from a like whether it be financial or family life or even just identity.

Ben Neumann: 36:02

Yeah. And so you guys go through a lot of stuff.

Mark Odland: 36:06

For sure. So, I mean, do you feel like by starting to go into the business stuff even before you ended your professional fighting career that helped the transition or not? Or You

Ben Neumann: 36:19

know, I I started the business stuff as a side hobby.

Mark Odland: 36:21

That was still a hobby. Okay.

Ben Neumann: 36:23

I'm always doing something busy. You know? But really, transition was just the whole was the fatherhood thing, you know? That's the reason why I stopped teaching, the reason why I stopped fighting. Fatherhood, yeah.

Ben Neumann: 36:36

Wanna homeschool. How am I gonna do that? Well, I can't be made a way to work, but I don't wanna be an employee with set hours if I'm gonna homeschool and raise my kids and try and do my version of parenting. I think I need to be in charge of my hours. So I need to, therefore, go full time with the bakery and ramp it up.

Ben Neumann: 36:53

This is my this is my avenue to be able to homeschool and spend time with my kids. And so the focus has shifted now. That's why I miss fighting, I miss training, I wish I could, but it's not important. What's important is making sure we can afford to get some more veterans for the kids. We can have more kids.

Ben Neumann: 37:10

So we can raise them and spend time with them. So that's what's important now. So that that was the transition for me. It was it's no longer important like it was. Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 37:20

One but not one.

Mark Odland: 37:22

Yeah. Well, and for those of you who are listening who haven't seen you fight, I still remember being your student to me like, what? My instructor actually fights professional, this is awesome. I gotta So I remember you walking to the cage with your Baker's hat on and your rolling pin. Yeah.

Mark Odland: 37:42

And and I and I wasn't sure, like, if the opponents were like, should I laugh or be really terrified? Because there's something about it that's a little unnerving, a little creepy. I don't know. Like, what's he gonna do with that rolling pin?

Ben Neumann: 37:53

Funny tape. Yeah. I remember sometimes, you know, you see on Facebook, you know, trying to stalk your opponent, you know, and they'll share the weigh in photos and, like, it'll be all their friends saying, don't lose to this clown, you know, like, Just like a baby, you'll just see me like with a chef's hat. Then you know when I fight I'll go back and just like all the comments you know. That's the most addictive I'll get.

Ben Neumann: 38:15

I'll like a comment when you're making fun of me.

Mark Odland: 38:18

That's awesome.

Ben Neumann: 38:19

Well, sounds like

Mark Odland: 38:21

not taking it too seriously. I mean, sounds like you were able to bring in that sense of humor and Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 38:26

See the showmanship is good. The organization likes showmanship and everyone just looks the same. It's hard to market. So I'm like, oh, I get it. Like, you're gonna wanna have me on your show more often if I'm doing something.

Ben Neumann: 38:36

And I said, don't mind being it's funny. Just the other month, my wife mentioned, she was like, I always thought that was a little embarrassing that you did this. What are you talking about? Like, why are just jumping in? She's like, I don't know that was little embarrassing.

Mark Odland: 38:51

Oh, that is that is hilarious. I after after all these years, and I'm looking at your t shirt because I think it's so I mean

Ben Neumann: 38:59

My Ben the Baker shirt here. Ben the Baker's

Mark Odland: 39:01

so you're able to pull a little bit of that fighting identity into your branding. Yeah.

Ben Neumann: 39:05

You know, my little guy and then, you know, it's always felt like the opponents of these big jack dudes and I'm just this little guy. That was my my shirt.

Mark Odland: 39:13

I love it. That's a cool shirt. I like it. Okay. Well, alright.

Mark Odland: 39:19

So, yeah. So you the fighting career, no no regrets. It sounds like your identity is really grounded in in your faith and in in your role as a dad and as a father, you know, a father and as a husband and and just wanting to kinda move forward in that. Still missing it, still hoping to in your perfect world to be able to train in the evenings, get get the kids

Ben Neumann: 39:39

going and my world I wanted for years. The last few years I always wanted to, like, when I turned 40, I wanted to have my twentieth fight and fight a 20 year old when I turned 40. Turned 40 in January. It would have been so fun. Get, like, a guy that's had, four fights or five fights.

Ben Neumann: 39:54

That'd be a fair matchup on 40 but with 20 pro fights and you're like 20 years old being out of five fights. That would have been perfect. But yeah, I'd like to but they can't even train. I can't even get out of here to train consistently. It didn't happen.

Ben Neumann: 40:06

Yeah. I mean,

Mark Odland: 40:08

it would have been like if it was more WWF or WWE, like you could have, like, had them in a triangle and then took a piece of pie and then

Ben Neumann: 40:15

just kinda, like, put it

Mark Odland: 40:16

into their mouth without their consent.

Ben Neumann: 40:18

Yeah. With me, there's there's some local not local, but a small town wrestling federation thing where it's like this Italian guy with a big pizza thing and he's always like he's in the ring like spinning the piece on the throne of the people and stuff and people always share that on my feet.

Mark Odland: 40:33

That's hilarious. Well, was great branding though. I remember I think I went to your your fight at a theater when you did a kickboxing fight. And you you did this you got knocked him out, the spinning elbow.

Ben Neumann: 40:45

Spinning elbow. Yes. Spinning

Mark Odland: 40:46

elbow. That was sweet. That was and I think I got a free piece of pie when I got went to the door. I'm like, this is awesome. Ben's got this thing down.

Ben Neumann: 40:55

Yep. That's part of my deal. Yep. Buy a ticket from me, you get a you get a piece of pie at the door. That was how I did it.

Mark Odland: 41:01

Very cool. Alright, Ben. Well, I it's fun it's fun catching up and and hearing about the journey. It's it's it's funny because even, like, going deeper into the faith stuff and the emotional stuff, it feel it still feels like we're just scratching the surface. I mean, you you could go so much deeper into any of these areas.

Mark Odland: 41:17

But today you're in Viper Lake and I imagine you're serving kind of a radius with your business of people who can I'd love to hear about kind of where the business is at now, what you're offering and how people can find you and and tap into these amazing treats that you're creating?

Ben Neumann: 41:37

Yeah. Well, if you need pie, of course, step one, go to benthebaker.com. K. We have pictures of everything we make. We make like 40 flavors of pie.

Ben Neumann: 41:46

We keep a ton in stock. We rotate new flavors, rotating flavors every weekend. So like for Easter, we're making chocolate banana cream. But we got a ton of unique flavors to it. Sour cream raisin.

Ben Neumann: 41:59

We do savory ones. Like, my favorite savory one is a smoked pulled pork with cheddar and Swiss. Oh, wow. So we'll smell, like, 80 pounds of pork shoulder for, six hours. Make a homemade barbecue sauce, put in a ton of cheddar and Swiss in a pie crust, either a pot pie style or like a mini, like a half pound one for individual meal like a pasty.

Ben Neumann: 42:21

Sounds amazing. We make we make thousands of pies every year. I got one one full time employee, turn my garage into a fully licensed bakery, which is rare. Usually, out of your home, go you're limited to certain things. I think Ramsey County said I'm only a second business they've ever allowed to do that.

Ben Neumann: 42:38

So Wow. It would put like an eight car parking lot in the front yard. So it's a real legitimate business that you're trying to save money on on rent until until maybe I keep a real salary or something. Don't know. A few more years a few more years of growth.

Ben Neumann: 42:54

But, yeah, it's it's it's great. We we do ice cream too. Have seven or eight flavors of ice cream. And we do everything from scratch. So we don't buy base fillings for anything.

Ben Neumann: 43:02

We don't buy base ice cream mix like most places do and just add in a little bit of chocolate or whatever. You know, pasteurize our own milk and cream and everything. Oh, wow. So, it's just again, I'm not interested in if it's kinda easy and you could make a few bucks, I'm not interested. Like, I wanna do something unique.

Ben Neumann: 43:17

Pay for it. The prices are on the upper end, You know? But just give it less often. Know? Get pie every other month instead of every month.

Ben Neumann: 43:25

And get something good for me instead of something for Walmart. Know?

Mark Odland: 43:30

Yeah. In today's day and age of cheap, easy stuff.

Ben Neumann: 43:35

Yeah, it's not even fun, it's not even good anymore. That's my approach, just keep the same budget but get something better less often.

Mark Odland: 43:43

That's funny, I've used that line on people who want counseling with me too.

Ben Neumann: 43:47

It's true.

Mark Odland: 43:48

It's actually true. Because I'm like, you know, you could see someone and that they might be okay. But at the same time, if you really feel like it's a good fit and you wanna see me in, you wanna meet every other week instead of every week, something like that, that actually could still work. Time to do

Ben Neumann: 44:02

your homework that you assigned to.

Mark Odland: 44:03

Hey. There we there we go. More time to do the homework. That's but alright. So this is I don't know if it's too so your orders are probably already filled for Easter?

Ben Neumann: 44:11

I mean, like, have, like, 6 or $7 in preorders right now. It's little preordered. But, hopefully, we'll sell $15 or so. We got, like, 20 or $25 of inventory. So I don't think we'll run out.

Ben Neumann: 44:20

You know? You can drop on by, even show up on Friday, two to 6PM this week or Saturday, 10AM to 6PM. So we have walk ins. We'll always have flavors for walk ins. If you wanna like reserve the special pie, the chocolate banana cream, I suggest place that pre order if I'm not sure when this is airing.

Ben Neumann: 44:39

But we'll we'll make a few for walk ins too just in case. But, yeah, people always just drop on in and grab whatever. We have a ton

Mark Odland: 44:45

Yeah, of that is so cool. Well I'm a I don't know, when I pass through the cities, we still have our office. One of my clinics is still in White Bear Lake. So we go down and check on the place occasionally.

Ben Neumann: 44:56

How long down or where's your?

Mark Odland: 44:58

It's in it's up by kind of off 96, up by kind of, like, where the what is it? The Lunds is and

Ben Neumann: 45:07

Oh, okay.

Mark Odland: 45:08

Constellation Drive. Yep.

Ben Neumann: 45:10

Yep. Okay. Where it lands.

Mark Odland: 45:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So

Ben Neumann: 45:13

It 96 across the highway, you're running to me. I'm off of 96 in Otter Lake. So Oh,

Mark Odland: 45:17

very cool. Very cool. Well, Ben, it's been awesome seeing it's really good to see you. It's been great.

Ben Neumann: 45:22

As well.

Mark Odland: 45:23

To not just catch up, even get to know you better. Know in a training environment it's not like we necessarily get to Yeah,

Ben Neumann: 45:28

don't get too in-depth and religious or

Mark Odland: 45:31

Yeah, I'm like almost being arm barred. So Ben, was your childhood like?

Ben Neumann: 45:37

I was just dead, yeah.

Mark Odland: 45:39

But, no, it's it's been it's been great. And and like I said, with this amount of time, there's you know, we can only go so deep. But but what you did share, I really appreciate it. And I think that'll be inspiration for a lot of the guys that are listening to this. And and yeah, thanks again for your time and I'm excited about all the great stuff you're doing and yeah, God bless and hopefully can do Yeah, it well, yeah,

Ben Neumann: 46:01

good luck with with the business there too.

Mark Odland: 46:02

Yeah, thanks Ben, take care.

Ben Neumann: 46:04

Appreciate it, take care.