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The journey toward a purposeful brand is hard work. And fraught with misled travelers. Being clear about who you are—it’s at the center of branding.
At Gardner Design, we’ve helped hundreds of clients refocus and relay brands that get to the point.
Join us as Bill Gardner and our clients discuss how they found their brand voice. In these episodes, we will correct misconceptions and dispel fears as we relate first-hand experiences of branding. None of these episodes are the full story for these brands but, we hope, offer helpful tidbits for your own branding journey.
Ep02
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[00:00:00]
Logo Hoard Problem
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Bill Gardner: You had explained to them that we were gonna be going through some branding and that we were going to be getting rid of this, you know, hoard of logos that were all out there. And every one of those deans to a T would look at you and go, "I think that is a great idea. I think it's a smart idea. It makes sense.
M- my, my logo's gonna be okay though, right?"
Meet Barth Hague
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Bill Gardner: I'm here with one of my favorite people [00:01:00] of all time, and, uh, it, a- and it's cool when favorite people and favorite projects kind of come together because, uh, th- this is Barth Hague. And, uh, Barth was the chief marketing officer at Wichita State University, uh, my alma mater- Mm-hmm ... um, at the time that, uh, we were approached to, uh, come in and do some rebranding of, uh, the university.
And gosh, the university, uh, at that point was 125 years old.
Barth Hague: Oh, somewhere in that vicinity, yeah.
Bill Gardner: Yeah. And in 125 years, you, you go through a lot of branding.
Barth Hague: You do.
Bill Gardner: And when, when you approached me about this project, there had already been a failed attempt-
Barth Hague: At least- ... at a rebrand ... at least one ... at
Bill Gardner: least one.
Barth Hague: Yeah, at least one.
Why Rebrand Again
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Barth Hague: Well, the other thing about it, as a state university, which we're- [00:02:00] Yeah ... we're the third-largest state university in Kansas, um, is a complex organization- Yeah ... and subject to state purchasing requirements, and I, it was, it was ... Yeah, it was complicated.
Bill Gardner: Why, why did you even open that can of worms?
Barth Hague: I didn't want to, because I had worked in marketing roles in other organizations- Right ... and we had gone through these brand identity changes. And I, I kind of told myself when I arrived at Wichita State, "I'm not doing this again." And, um, we ended up doing it. The main reason was that, uh, our basketball team was beginning to pick up steam, doing fairly well.
Yeah,
Bill Gardner: yeah.
Barth Hague: I, I remember my very first, uh, week at Wichita State. Yeah. One of the vice presidents who had- was responsible for helping to hire me-
Bill Gardner: Uh-huh ...
Barth Hague: invited me to a ballgame. The Shockers were playing in Koch Arena. Yeah. [00:03:00] And, uh, she had wonderful seats just right center court. And one of the questions I asked her was, "Why is the logo painted on the floor different from the university logo?"
And she kind of looked at me, to suggest, "Don't touch this."
And I decided at that point, "Yep, I'm gonna change this. We're gonna change this
Bill Gardner: again." That, that sounded like a challenge to you. It didn't, it, it, it wasn't an admonishment. It
Barth Hague: was- It, it, it was a bit. Yeah. It was a bit.
Two Logos Become 200
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Barth Hague: And, and what I discovered as we, the further we got into this- Yeah
that not only did the university have two logos, it actually had 200.
Bill Gardner: Yeah.
Barth Hague: Because each, each, um, department, each college was allowed to do its own thing.
Bill Gardner: Yeah.
Barth Hague: But the challenge for me as a marketer was looking at the fact that the university's athletic program- Mm-hmm ... had its own WSU logo- Yep. Sure ... which was appear- And, and for good reason
and, [00:04:00] and for reasons that, uh, we can talk about, but, but, um-
Bill Gardner: I notice you didn't go along with my for good reason, but, but-
Barth Hague: Uh, yeah, they weren't necessarily good. But they, they were justified because- Yeah ... they didn't reproduce well, uh, on T-shirts, and they didn't embroider- For licensing purposes- ... and all of those kinds of things
had to have their own. Sure.
Athletics Exposure Opportunity
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Barth Hague: But, uh, the loss I saw was opportunity. Yeah. Because athletics was, uh, doing well with their- Mm-hmm ... basketball program. Sure. They were constantly on CBS Sports. They were constantly on- ESPN ... ESPN. Yep. And this wasn't our logo. Yeah. This wasn't our brand identity. Yeah. And, uh, and meanwhile, back at the ranch, the, the university is trying to use its own logo, but every department has its own little version of it, too.
Aligning Academic and Sports Marks
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Bill Gardner: And just for a little bit of setup here, uh, the university was primarily dealing with two different, uh, WSU logos. Now, there's the Woo Shock, but the Woo Shock's kind of a wholly separate- It's a mascot. Yeah ... element, and we're gonna maybe talk about that. But the, uh ... Both logos were a d- a, uh, [00:05:00] scriptish form of W, S, and U.
Barth Hague: Right.
Bill Gardner: Both had a shock of wheat drifting through them. Right. But they were dramatically different logos. Dramatically
Barth Hague: different. Yeah.
Bill Gardner: And, uh, that, that was your point, uh, in part, was that, you know, is, uh, you tried to develop a level of consistency within an entity That the public doesn't recognize the behind-the-scenes needs to have an academic logo that is separate and different from an athletic logo.
To them-
Barth Hague: Right ...
Bill Gardner: they're just looking at it and going, "Well, that doesn't look right. That's, you know, that, that's not the one that I remember seeing on the basketball," or, "That's not the one that I remember seeing on my diploma."
Barth Hague: Sure, of course. Yeah. And f- to me, again, as from a marketing perspective, it just felt like a huge missed opportunity.
Yeah. Because we were missing out as a university on millions of dollars of free advertising.
Bill Gardner: Yeah.
Barth Hague: So that- that's what led to the, the ultimate, uh, [00:06:00] decision to make a change.
Bill Gardner: And I forget what the numbers were, but that was the, uh, the year that the Shockers ended up... But, but, y- through this, once we got the new logo, that was the year that they went to the Final Four.
Barth Hague: Final Four. Yeah. And that was worth, that was worth well over a billion dollars in free advertising- That amazing ... for the university. Yeah. We could have never afforded it otherwise. Yeah,
Bill Gardner: yeah.
Leadership Buy In
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Bill Gardner: What I'm, what really intrigues me about this is the fact that, uh, once you recognized the challenge that the university had with its mark, you were able to create that level of buy-in from those people that, uh, frankly were in a decision-making mode.
Barth Hague: Yeah. And I, and I, it, it really required the president of the university to be solidly behind this- Yeah, it was Don Beggs at the time ... idea to change it. Don Beggs. Sure. Uh, Don was one of those administrators who was very willing to say to a marketing person, "You're the expert. You tell me what we need."
Right. But I think Don also understood the, the economics of this- Mm-hmm ... that we had an opportunity here that we were [00:07:00] missing. Um, we were also trying to settle some feuds across campus. I think for Don, as a p- college president, university president, he was concerned that any department could just sort of decide who they are and put that out there publicly.
And if they wanted to almost disassociate themselves from the university, they were permitted to do that in the good old days. Right. And I think he was ready to resolve that problem as well.
Bill Gardner: You know, one, one of the other things, and you alluded to this, was that, uh, not only were there those two logos That were, you know, the main logos that we're talking about.
But, uh, as well, there were literally hundreds- There were ... of logos. Every college, every entity within that college had their own mark.
Barth Hague: Right.
Stakeholder Meetings Reality Check
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Bill Gardner: And I'm remembering that, uh, you and I through this process sat down with the dean of every one of the colleges, sat down with students, sat down with the heads of departments.
Y- y- you had, you had explained to them that we were gonna be going through some [00:08:00] branding and that we were going to be getting rid of this, you know, hoard of logos that were all out there. And every one of those deans to a T would look at you and go, "I think that is a great idea. I think it's a smart idea, it makes sense.
M- my, my logo's gonna be okay though, right?" Yeah.
Barth Hague: Yeah. It's, a- and that's often the case.
Three Common Objections
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Barth Hague: I, I've... As I've done this over the years, and again, I'm not a designer, I don't come at it from a graphic design perspective, I come at it from more of a marketing administration- Yeah ... perspective. But I've discovered over the years that there are three issues people have with these kinds of changes, considering these kinds of changes.
And the first one is what you're, you're describing- is you're taking something away that is precious to me.
Bill Gardner: Right.
Barth Hague: The, the second, and I've, I've... This, this was a big deal at Wichita State, I didn't expect it to be, but it really was, was administrative assistants You're making me [00:09:00] change the formatting on letterhead.
I mean, it- ... it boils down to something that simple. Okay, okay. You're making me change the margins.
Bill Gardner: Yep.
Barth Hague: And I really don't wanna do that.
Bill Gardner: And- Everybody has their own way.
Barth Hague: Well, and, and the third, the third one you get from people f- these are more from the perhaps the outside observers looking in. They're always asking the question, "What does this mean?
What does this new image mean?" Yeah. We actually, I was with a, not at Wichita State, but I was with another firm, and a we went through a similar process, developed a new identity program with a new logo. We actually had to invent a bogus set of meanings for this- ... just to appease people who were, who were struggling with, "Well, I've gotta understand what this means before I can like it."
Bill Gardner: You know, one of the things that, uh, is so meaningful, uh, throughout this process is that you are gathering that input and, and it's not just for show. Some of the [00:10:00] questions that we asked were insightful, but the answers were so much more insightful.
Keep the Wheat Story
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Bill Gardner: Um, I'm remembering Dean Fox from the, um, uh, College of Health, uh, when we, uh, talked with him.
I, I think he, he was the one that made the comment, uh, "Whatever you do, don't lose the wheat."
Barth Hague: Right.
Bill Gardner: Because, you know, there, there's Wright State and there's Wayne State and there's Washington State, and there's all kinds of WSUs.
Barth Hague: Right.
Bill Gardner: But the, that wheat helped to identify specifically as you're looking at that logo with that wheat in there, where we're talking about, you know, in, in the heart of America.
And he also had a beautiful story that he shared about to him, uh, the story of, uh, those first immigrants carrying a bag of wheat across the sea to the US and planting it and, you know, the, the work ethic they had and seeing to it that it grew into wheat and became sustaining and, you know. They, I mean, I was, I was in [00:11:00] tears by the time he got done- Oh, yeah
telling that story. And we heard so many stories that ultimately worked into our solution.
Barth Hague: Well, and it's also part of the university's history.
Bill Gardner: Yeah.
Barth Hague: Fairmount College, um, you know, back in the day before there was a Wichita State University, uh, students would work at planting wheat in the fields around the university as, as a part of, of their experience, uh, going to school at the college.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Listening Into a Solution
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Barth Hague: So, so I, I think, uh, the point you're making though is a good one, that a lot of listening You listen to a lot of, of people in this process, and you roll out ideas and, and hear their opinion. You don't always, you don't always do what you're being told to do- Yeah ... or asked to do, but you take everything into account.
Yeah. And I, I think that's a key to this process.
Bill Gardner: Yeah.
Rollout and Lasting Consistency
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Bill Gardner: And the, the result that we, uh, came up with, I thought was a great solution from a perspective. And it- it's a logo that you, uh, see today [00:12:00] as you, uh, uh, go to the university or, uh, travel around the campus. It's, uh, it's up on the big water tower.
Barth Hague: Oh, yeah.
Bill Gardner: Uh, it's- It's
Barth Hague: everywhere. And it's, and it's on CBS and E- ESPN.
Bill Gardner: See? It worked.
Barth Hague: It did work, and I, I was amazed, uh, in that process at Wichita State, I was amazed at how well it worked. We, we had very little pushback on it. Uh, there were some things we had to negotiate in terms of, okay, how do you identify the Barton School of Business- Mm-hmm, sure
alongside of this thing. Sure. But, but w- again, we, I think we, uh, crafted with your team's help, uh, uh, uh, an, an extremely, uh, workable solution- Yeah ... that worked across the university, and I... and continues on even after I, I have, uh, left the premises, so to speak. Yeah.
Bill Gardner: I think, I think that the university had been through enough iterations of different logos over the years that, uh, as a designer, one of the things that you're, you're really kind of [00:13:00] praying for is that they invest in signage and elements that are going to have such a heavy capital-
uh, investment that they aren't gonna wanna pull those down off the building, and they're gonna think twice, you know- Yeah ... about changing it again. Yeah. But it really has, uh, uh, not only, uh, worked under your, uh, stewardship, but, uh, carried on under, uh, the stewardship of, um, other people that have come, uh, subsequent to you.
Yeah. And, uh, really has served incredibly well. I appreciate
Barth Hague: that.
Consistency Beats Great Design
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Barth Hague: Well, I've, and you've heard me say this many times, I think I may have learned it from you- Uh ... or at least have heard it repeated by you many times, is that I, I could work with, again, as a marketer, even a poor design for a logo. As long as you maintain consistency, you can almost save it.
but the best design isn't gonna carry the day without a consistent application. Yeah. And so part of the, part of this game is just being consistent in the way [00:14:00] things are applied across the university. But again, this one at Wichita State I think worked remarkably well and continues to this day.
Closing Thanks
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Bill Gardner: I couldn't say it any better.
Barth Hague: Good.
Bill Gardner: Thank you-
Barth Hague: You
Bill Gardner: bet ... very much. Good to talk to you, sir. It's great to talk to
Barth Hague: you.