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Leading is Serving seeks to provide resources and connection for leadership and business development. Particularly focused on the south-side and Indy in general. Tune in as we share the stories of people and companies, not just doing good work, but also having a positive impact on the community.
4 Types of Leaders - Protective
Chris Wood: [00:00:00] Well, hey Jason, welcome to Leading is Serving podcast.
Jason Kempf: Hey Chris. How are you doing? Good.
Chris Wood: Good. It's getting to be the end of April and beginning of May and
just time is just flying by and I'm super excited about this year. I know, and so
many things
Jason Kempf: going on. The time machine of podcasting, it will be made by the
time this drops.
It totally will, right? Yeah, yeah. But I just want you to know that I still believe it's
February. That March is still around the corner. Yeah. Yeah. That's you,
Chris Wood: your, your time machine needs to catch up.
Jason Kempf: Okay. I like living in the past. I still have a lot of time to do things,
you know, I've not yet begun to procrastinate, so No, I, I mean, the year has just
flown by so fast.
Mm-hmm. So many things have happened, and yet I feel like not enough has.
Been done or you know. Right. It's weird. I, I don't know. I don't know if this is
post covid thing or just, you know, my grandparents always said time got faster
as you got older. Yeah. You know, I've heard multiple people say that older or.
[00:01:00] I'm, I'm only like 29.
Chris Wood: Right, right, right. Exactly.
Jason Kempf: 29 and a half. That's why we're on podcasts, so nobody knows.
Chris Wood: Don't go to the YouTube channel. You actually, Nope, nope. Be
able to see my bald head. This is
Jason Kempf: not gray here. All right. Well it's good to see you, man. That's
good to see you too, bud. Glad that we're doing this and we have the opportunity
just to, Run across so many leaders in our community who are mm-hmm.
Fighting for the highest good of people around them. Right. You know, whether
that's, you know, it's somebody that's on their team or in their family, or it's just
relationships they know. Right. And people are just serving and leading one
another just because. We love each other. Right? We want the best for one
another.
We the best for other people. Yep. You know, and it's so true. We've just had
some great interviews recently and that's just been so encouraging mm-hmm. To
hear leaders in our community who are, who are living this every day. Right, right.
Chris Wood: And so it definitely, and I think it I don't know about you, but I
definitely.
It definitely feels good when other people are doing this and like [00:02:00] you
didn't know other people were doing it. Mm-hmm. And then you bump into
somebody, you're like, wow, this is, this is a real thing. Like this is, so you're, if
you're out there fighting for the highest good and struggling with the idea that,
you know, are you the only one out there doing this like, You're not right.
Just keep, keep plugging away cuz it's, it's not the easy way to do life, but man, it,
it just, there is moments where that just this, the insight that comes from doing it
is just invigorating,
Jason Kempf: right? I mean, you kind of think like, oh, living life alone, let's go
be a hermit in the mountains. Right? That would be easier now, I mean, there
might be some aspects that are easier, but you can do that for a time, I mean,
The fulfillment is in finding the golden in other people, right.
Of serving them, wanting to see them succeed. Seeing them succeed and Right.
You know, not, not necessarily needing to get credit, but just going, yeah. That
was that. Right? I had a hand in that. Right. And that just, that fuels not even if
anybody knows. I [00:03:00] love it. Yep. Yeah. I love it. Absolutely. So you guys
jump over to leading and serving.com and you know, share this podcast, share
an episode to somebody, another leader that you think, Hey, you should hear this.
Mm-hmm. Give us a rating and review, man. That, that really helps, helps us
keep going right here at the Leading and Serving podcast. So jump over to the
website, we'd love to hear from you. And don't forget that. The signups are still
going on for the Oh yes. Commons Network. We're still looking for some more
people.
Peer peer mentoring groups are firing up. We've got a group that's starting up
very soon and so you guys jump on board? Yeah,
Chris Wood: it's real soon. Yeah. By, by the time this lands, maybe even by the
time, I was gonna say, I dunno, this lands, it might be, we've already had our first.
I'm super excited about our meeting.
Yeah.
Jason Kempf: This is gonna be good. So you guys, it's just an opportunity to
meet a couple times a month with other leaders here in the community that you
get a chance to sharpen one another through. Yeah. Business and leadership
development. You know, asking questions, working with one another, and really
just fighting for the highest good of one another right through these things.
And [00:04:00] so the, the membership is $50 a month to, and all the proceeds
go to the uncommons mm-hmm. For the vision of, you know, launching these
things in the community. Man, yeah, we're, we're just really excited about it. So
we hope you'll jump over there for sure. So, but today we're gonna start a little,
kind of a mini-series.
Okay. I guess you could say. Talking about the four types of leaders that are out
there. And you could probably break this down into many types of leaders.
Mm-hmm. But we're gonna hit the main four. We're gonna talk about four that
kind of come through a lot of the giant coaching materials that we've talked about
here on the podcast.
Right. Numerous times. I do love that. Right. Yeah. And so there's, there's four
different kinds. Okay. The most negative is the the abdicating leader. The absent
leader, the the apathetic one that's just kind of given up. Okay. Okay. And, you
know, we've, we've probably run across people like that. We might even have
people on our teams like that.
Mm-hmm. You know you know, there's, it's hard to light a fire and figure out how
to, how to get them from that absenteeism to the, the most, he most healthiest
category mm-hmm. Of leader is a liberating [00:05:00] leader. Someone who
brings life and. Joy to a person's life and they just live into who they are.
Mm-hmm. That when we're truly fighting for the highest good, you become a liber
liberating leader and you have a huge effect on your team and the people around
you, and even beyond. Hmm. But the one that we're gonna focus on today in this
episode, okay. Is the protective leader. Okay. Okay. That on the opposite side of
that is the dominating leader that we'll talk about next time, but the protective
leader is someone who is really good at supporting their team.
Okay. And our nature as leaders is that we're gonna lean to one or the other of
these. Okay? Okay. We're gonna have a natural leaning. We'd all love to say we
are liberating leaders, people who are fighting for the, you know, we've got this
figured out, but we really don't. Okay. I
Chris Wood: don't. You might. Well, no, no.
I don't have this all figured out at all. No. Okay. I'm still trying to figure it off. Huh?
I'm the negative guy. Okay. Which
Jason Kempf: one do I fold with? Right, right. [00:06:00] But we all have a
tendency to lean toward either this protective or a dominating. Type of leadership
in our lives. Okay. Okay. And so the protective leader is someone who is
absolutely all for their team.
Mm-hmm. Probably relational driven. Mm-hmm. Just wants to be the best boss,
the best leader that this person has ever had. And so they're happy to stand
around and, you know, have the water cooler talk to Right. The, Hey, do you
have everything you need to do? Your job will. Right. You know? And Okay,
great. I believe in you.
You, I, I think you're gonna succeed at this. You are a great fit for who we are
and what we're doing. And man, you're, you're, you're top notch. Mm-hmm.
You're gonna do this, so go for it. Go for it. Let me know if you need anything.
You know, they're huge cheerleaders, wonderful people in terms of, you know,
just cultivating relationships, cultivating family in the workplace.
Mm-hmm. Of just saying, you know, we're in this together guys, we can, we can
do this. You know, very encouraging. Mm-hmm. Okay. But where that can go
awry, Is by taking [00:07:00] that too far, eventually something gets missed.
Mm-hmm. Because this person is very good at encouragement. Mm-hmm. And
the support that they have a hard time communicating the challenge, the
expectation, the deadlines.
Mm-hmm. And so when something does get missed or that leader's boss comes
to them and is like, Hey, y'all missed Q1 metrics, what? What's going on? Right.
Well then that supportive leader, that protective leader kind of becomes like a
Jekyll and Hyde situation. Okay. They go from super encouraging and super
relational to just exploding.
Mm-hmm. And becoming the monster and being like, we missed it. Well, I mean,
it just gets ugly and the rest of the team is kind of sitting around going. What just
happened? Mm-hmm. What, just, what did we miss? Right. I thought we, I
thought you believed in me. I thought we were gonna succeed. Right. Right. And
so we can, if we lean too [00:08:00] far to just doing that support, just doing that
protective kind of, you know, we, we become people pleasers to the point that we
might explode.
Mm. And so what that does for our teams is it kind of creates a culture of fear
that. Okay. I knew you blew up a couple months ago. Mm-hmm. But you've been
wonderful since. Is it gonna happen again? Yeah. I'm afraid to miss something,
but I don't know what I'm missing because you don't communicate what's
expected and what's, what's going on, what I need to be, am I working on the
most important things?
I don't know. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so it kind of creates this, this expectation of,
of fear and just kind of like, you know, I'm. I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna do
my job. I'm gonna do the best I can, but Right. Man, I, but, but you also feel super
encouraged. Mm-hmm. So it's a mix of that encouragement and fear for the
leader or for the team that this leader is leading.
Mm-hmm. And so, you know, we have to find a balance for sure, which is what
we're gonna be talking about. That's where that [00:09:00] liberating leader
comes into play, is we have to find a balance as leaders. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I
mean, that protective leader is a wonderful person to work with. Mm-hmm.
Wonderful person to work for.
But man, when something doesn't line up, I was
Chris Wood: gonna say, except they're off days, right? Yeah. Yeah. Then it's
Jason Kempf: like a Adam Ball, or if somebody starts poisoning the relational
well on the team. Mm. You know, somebody just doesn't wanna play ball. Well,
then there's this relational strife where the relationship should be good.
Mm-hmm. And so then the focus gets even taken off of. Where we're going as a
company, where we're going as a team, and we're, everything is just off because
the relationships are off. Mm-hmm. And so your effectiveness, your capacity as a
team really plummets if you've got somebody like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so
the best way to become a leader that is somebody that wants to follow, I mean,
We've all had leaders that we have to follow.
Right? Right, right. But if you wanna become a leader, that is worth following.
Right. We have to learn to find that balance. Totally agree. [00:10:00] We have to
learn to not just be encouraging, but also bring some challenge to the
relationship. Mm-hmm. And, you know, that's what we're gonna talk about when
we get to the, the liberating leader.
Yeah. And
Chris Wood: we've, we've talked about this balance before
Jason Kempf: too, haven't we? Like Yeah. It's been a, it's
Chris Wood: been a good while. Like Yeah. It's just a, it's not one of those things
that's, It's like you said, we lean towards one, one thing or another, right?
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's hard to, one, I think many leaders struggle with the idea
that they have to figure out what is their downfall, right?
And then trying to communicate that effectively mm-hmm. Is like what you said.
And then it's just a matter of that's a real world problem that many leaders
struggle with. Like, and then, and then trying to be the guy that you want. To
follow or to be the person that you would want somebody to follow.
Mm-hmm. It's just like, there's a lot of stress there. Right. A lot of, lot of
expectations slash responsibility. Mm-hmm. It's not light. I mean, we talk about it
[00:11:00] loosely, you know what I mean? Right. But it's like to be in that
position mm-hmm. It's a lot of weight.
Jason Kempf: Yeah. And I. As a leader, I definitely lean toward this protective
side.
I was gonna say, I
Chris Wood: wonder, I was, I was like, man, I kind of feel
Jason Kempf: like I'm falling there. I, I think so, and I think I, I, I struggle
Chris Wood: with, with mm-hmm. The idea of I struggle with effectively
communicating my thought process. Mm-hmm. Because I don't always feel like I
I can get out the words to be able to effectively communicate it, if that makes
sense.
Right, right. So, and then when it goes sideways, I usually. Dog myself more so
than anything else, just because I'm like, well, obviously you're the problem.
Right, right. Because it starts here, right. So many times. Right? Right. Yeah. I
mean, you gotta start with yourself. Right? So maybe I didn't communicate it
effectively, so I can't really get mad at them.
Right. The people that I'm trying to lead.
Jason Kempf: Right. Because it's 50
Chris Wood: 50 here, you know? Right. Like, Majority of the time it's cuz I didn't
effectively communicate it, so it's like I can't get mad at everybody else. Right,
[00:12:00]
Jason Kempf: right. But yeah. Yeah. I mean, I did the whole Jekyll hide thing
with my, with one of my kids the other day.
Oh, did you really? Yeah. Yeah. That, you know, we've got the Xbox in the
basement. Mm-hmm. And couple times I've seen the TV left on overnight and,
yeah. Okay. Okay. Just, you know, so I, I like to use sarcasm and humor and
keep things light. Right? Mm-hmm. And so like, hey, get the TV turned off.
Mm-hmm. You know, I never, I don't know that I expressed it super succinct and,
you know, stop leaving your, your cups or, you know, whatever.
Right, right. You know, clean up after yourself. I mean, you're a teenager. Quit
being a teenager. I know. Yeah. But man, I went, I walked through the basement
the other night and there was just a little bit too much left behind. Yeah. And I
was like, I will cut off the wifi. You know, like,
Chris Wood: we're gonna put the hammer down.
That's
Jason Kempf: right. Yeah. Yeah. Hyde came out. So
Chris Wood: done. That simple was gone. So done that with my kids.
Jason Kempf: So done. Yeah. I mean, I mean, if, if you're trying to figure out
what kind of leader am I in the workplace? Mm-hmm. Maybe look at your home
[00:13:00] life. Yeah. Ask your, ask your
Chris Wood: spouse. Yeah. Or maybe not. Or maybe not. Or ask your close
friend who can give you the real advice without any yeah.
Jason Kempf: I mean, how do you, you know, if you're, if you're married with
kids, how do you work with your kids? Yeah. Because that can be, That can, that
can bring a true lot of insight into your tendencies as a leader. It really
Chris Wood: can. So true. Who would've thought that kids were like the natural
leadership skills training?
Oh, like if you really just, if you actually wanted to focus on making sure you're
trying to bring them up as well as you can.
Jason Kempf: Man, we should be pros, right? We should be pros. I'm pretty
sure I'm failing.
Chris Wood: I don't know that about him being a pro. I'm just still trying to get.
To, to a C level
Jason Kempf: grade. That's right.
That's right. Well, if you're out there tonight or to today, just listening in, kind of
going, yeah. I, I, I feel like I might lean to that protective side. Mm-hmm. We're
gonna talk about that a little bit more in the [00:14:00] upcoming episodes
mm-hmm. Of how we move from the protective side to that liberating leader,
okay?
Mm-hmm. Because what happens is when we, when things get crossways with
us mm-hmm. We end up jumping to the dominating leader. Yep. That, that's, that
that Jekyll Hyde thing happening, or the Hulk, you know, where Hulk smash and
you know, and you just become this dominating leader for a moment. Mm-hmm.
And then it's right back to, Hey, we're good friends.
Right. And I believe in you. You're a great guy. Right. You know? Yep. And so
people are left wondering what, what is going on? And so if that's you be thinking
about communication, Be thinking about how clear am I about setting boundaries,
expectations, deadlines. Mm-hmm. Of communicating what really needs to be
done and challenging someone.
Mm-hmm. You know? And that could be as simple as, man, you did. I mean,
your support side comes out of saying, man, you did such a great job on that last
project, but I think this next time around, You could be 10% better. [00:15:00]
Yeah. Because I know you've got it within you. Yeah. And so setting that
challenge, setting that expectation of, you know we're not just gonna, we're just
gonna sit idle and be happy with where we're at.
We're gonna move forward, right? We're gonna get better as a team, as
individuals, and, you know, and so be thinking about your communication skills,
be thinking about those conversations that kind of make you feel. Mm-hmm. You
know, we don't want to have those No. If we're in that protective set, we don't like
having, because it just feels, you know, yeah.
It just doesn't feel good. No. Just doesn't feel right. It's so true. But then we go
way overboard. Once our buttons have been pushed too far. Yep. You know?
Yep. And so that's your protective leader. Yep. And that's kind of the profile of
that first leader.
Chris Wood: Stay tuned as we get to talk about a little bit.
Yeah. More about how
Jason Kempf: we're gonna go dominating next. No,
Chris Wood: we're, yeah. We're deal with some of these different things, maybe
that's That's right. And get, get to the better side of things so we can try to know
what we're shooting for.
Jason Kempf: That's right. So you guys jump over to the [00:16:00] website,
leading and serving.com.
We'd love to hear from you. Yep.
Chris Wood: Send us a voicemail or a text or mm-hmm. All those good things
email we'd love to hear from you and we're still looking for interviews, so Oh yeah.
Make sure you, yeah. Send us lot of great information.
Jason Kempf: So a lot of great ways to be involved in the podcast. We'd love to
please hear from you.
Y'all have a great day. Thanks. Join us time. Bye-Bye