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The Life of And podcast is for high-achieving women and working parents who are ready to stop living a life of “have to” and start designing a life they actually want. It’s a space where we talk honestly about the things we’re often afraid to admit — even to ourselves. The exhaustion. The ambition. The loneliness. The joy. The tension of wanting more without losing yourself in the process.
If you’re in the thick of it — feeling stretched, tired, hopeful, driven — this is your invitation to take a breath, get real, and find your way back to your own Life of And.
[00:00:00] Brian Kavicky: Your life is actually not defined by your yes. Your life is defined by your no. So you get married, you say yes on the altar. Well, you say no to dating. You say no to other priorities. You say, in some degree, "I'm gonna say no to my family and what my family wants. Brian Kavicky: You say no sometimes to, "Well, I wanted to live here, but this job took us here. I have to say no to this."
[00:00:25] Brian Kavicky: Like, it's just no after no after no.Brian Kavicky: It's knowing that the more important a decision is to you and the more it aligns with your values, you're going to have a lot of no's. Brian Kavicky: But all of those no's get you to the yes that you wanted to.
[00:00:36] Tiffany Sauder: I'm Tiffany Sauder, entrepreneur, wife, mom to four girls, and a woman figuring it out just like you. Come on, let's go build your life of "and."
[00:00:46] Tiffany Sauder: I don't think most women actually struggle to make decisions. I think we more struggle to hold them. Because the truth is every real decision comes with a trade-off. And if you're not willing to accept that cost, you'll keep going back on it over and over again. And that's not confusion. What it really is, if we're honest, is avoidance. And the moment you accept the trade-off, the decision finally sticks.
[00:01:07] Tiffany Sauder: In last month's episode with Brian Kavicky, we dug really deep into guilt and what is the true cost of doing it all. In this episode today with him, I want to dig into: why is it that even once we've acknowledged it's not really guilt and we've decided not to do it all, we can still backslide — because we haven't fully committed to the decision.
[00:01:30] Tiffany Sauder: So let's dig into it. Brian, welcome back to the studio.
Decision Is Action
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[00:01:46] Tiffany Sauder: So why is it that we go back on decisions that we've already made?
[00:01:50] Tiffany Sauder: I think reason number one is you haven't actually made the decision — and by that I mean you haven't completed the decision-making process.
[00:01:58] Tiffany Sauder: So I can have a want, or I can say things like, "I want to do this." That's pretty light — nothing's ever decided.
[00:02:04] Tiffany Sauder: You could say something like, "I am going to," and that sounds a lot more like a decision. But that is still just momentum of the decision.
[00:02:12] Tiffany Sauder: The true decision is not completed until I've acted in accordance with what I've said. I have to say the thing and then what we call "buy the decision."
[00:02:20] Tiffany Sauder: I'm acting as if I own that decision and it's already done — which means all my actions after that are consistent with that decision.
[00:02:28] Tiffany Sauder: That is a beautiful world that you describe. But there are things that come up that are begging to distract us, begging to steal our confidence in that, begging to divert our momentum.
[00:02:38] Tiffany Sauder: Things not going according to plan — there's all kinds of things that disrupt that.
[00:02:44] Tiffany Sauder: We all have this moment where we're like — in front of our computer, on our phone, or with our journal — "I'm going. I'm doing this."
[00:02:52] Tiffany Sauder: But then life can life and get us really distracted. So how do we show up in those moments in a way where we don't revert to defensive postures, but stay super proactive?
[00:03:14] Tiffany Sauder: So a defensive posture occurs when somebody feels threatened. In other words, to play defense, there has to be offense being played against me.
[00:03:22] Tiffany Sauder: So if we say here's all the distractions, here's all the attacks, here's all those things — something triggers that defensive posture completely. But a lot of times it's internal.
[00:03:32] Tiffany Sauder: I have decided this, and in my head I start thinking about these things. And that's gonna be a little bit of shock. It's gonna be a little bit of fear. It's gonna work its way to depression.
[00:03:43] Tiffany Sauder: And those are all sort of the first signs of: you're going through a change.
[00:03:47] Tiffany Sauder: So what happens is people get these inputs and they start to go, "Wow, my emotions — it's getting hard and I'm getting scared and I'm getting depressed. What if I made the wrong decision?"
[00:03:58] Tiffany Sauder: All of those are natural behaviors that are actually on the way to growth. And that is where sabotage starts to set in.
[00:04:05] Tiffany Sauder: Because people will go, "Oh my gosh, I'm depressed. I made the wrong decision." Instead of going, "Perfect, I'm depressed. I'm on the right track."
[00:04:13] Tiffany Sauder: 'Cause you're going to go through those things. You're going to question the big changes.
[00:04:18] Tiffany Sauder: Now, little decisions like where are we going to dinner — you might order something and go, "I don't really like it. I'll eat it. Nah, it wasn't so bad." Like little things, you still go through the same cycles.
[00:04:30] Tiffany Sauder: But the bigger decisions, the more important decisions — where we're talking about purpose and life priorities and "this is what I'm committing to" — those things are going to come with all this fear of, "I've done the wrong thing."
[00:04:44] Tiffany Sauder: I think those moments of fear and depression and the sort of environmental friction put us in these cycles of re-decision. Like, how do I get myself back to comfortable? I think oftentimes that's the first reaction. Is that true or not true?
[00:05:06] Brian Kavicky: Yeah. Because we want comfort. We want to return to comfort, but growth comes through discomfort.
[00:05:11] Brian Kavicky: When you were growing as a little kid, you had growth spurts and your legs would hurt and stuff — it hurts to actually grow.
[00:05:18] Brian Kavicky: And so when people feel this discomfort and they're like, "Wow, this is really hard and I'm going through a lot right now," it's like: yes, you're on the right path. This uncomfortable thing means it's good.
[00:05:29] Brian Kavicky: Most people will clock out and say, "Nope, I'm not doing it. It's too much discomfort." And they will revert and undo that decision in a second.
[00:05:39] Tiffany Sauder: Totally.
[00:05:40] Tiffany Sauder: Or — I find myself, if I've set some quantitative goals, wanting to fiddle with the scoreboard to put myself back in the winner's chair.
[00:05:49] Tiffany Sauder: Like, I'm feeling behind. This looks impossible. And I'm like, "I just need to change the scoreboard. My goals were too aggressive." Like, I don't like how this feels.
[00:05:57] Tiffany Sauder: And when you change the scoreboard, you now have no progress towards your goal.
[00:06:01] Tiffany Sauder: Regret comes from not doing something I wanted to do. So when you change that scoreboard, you are now opening yourself up to regret — because even if you achieve the new scoreboard, you're gonna go, "But it wasn't what I set before. I don't feel good about this. It wasn't what I wanted."
[00:06:15] Tiffany Sauder: I always feel bad after that. Whereas if you fell 10% short of the goal that you set, you would go, "Wow, look at my progress. Look at how far I've come." Because it was worth it.
[00:06:26] Tiffany Sauder: So if we're not reexamining — why did I set this goal? Why did I set this decision? Why was this important to me? — when you're going through that natural process of change, you're going to risk undoing it because you're not committing to the bigger thing.
[00:06:40] Tiffany Sauder: So I think sometimes committing to the bigger thing is begging us to un-choose some things that we have today. And so we can get into this place where we genuinely want two things that just cannot coexist.
[00:06:52] Tiffany Sauder: Like, I want the comfort of where I am right now and I want the monetary growth of tomorrow. Or I want as much time as possible with my kids, and I also want to take 15,000 steps today. It's like — well, you've gotta decide which one you want more. Is that true or not true?
[00:07:06] Brian Kavicky: Well, it's absolutely not true. If I look through the lens of "and," I go, "Well, I gotta get 15,000 steps and my kids are bugging me — let's go on a walk, and I'll put them through 15,000 steps too, because I get to spend time with them while I'm walking."
[00:07:20] Brian Kavicky: Or if I want comfort and I want money — well, if I want comfort, do you want comfort now? Or do you want comfort for a much longer time because you have money?
[00:07:30] Brian Kavicky: So comfort can still be important, but which way do you want to get it? Because knowing which way I want to get it is what should drive that decision.
[00:07:40] Brian Kavicky: If you always want to feel comfortable right now — why don't you just sit on the couch, get under a blanket, and just lay there. You'll be comfortable for a long time. Fair enough?
[00:07:50] Tiffany Sauder: Fair enough.
[00:07:52] Tiffany Sauder: [Ad break — Share Your Genius]
[00:08:32] Tiffany Sauder: One of the things that's important when you're gonna make a big decision is figuring out what you're gonna say no to.
[00:08:38] Tiffany Sauder: 'Cause it does take a lot of no's oftentimes to protect the space for a really good choice — a really big priority, a really big decision. So how does that look? How do the no's play out?
[00:08:48] Brian Kavicky: Well, it's understanding that to make a decision work, it's not that I have to have a lot of no's — almost everything becomes a no.
[00:08:56] Brian Kavicky: Your life is actually not defined by your yes. Your life is defined by your no.
[00:09:01] Brian Kavicky: So you get married, you say yes on the altar. Well, you say no to dating, you say no to other priorities. You say, in some degree, "I'm gonna say no to my family and what my family wants."
[00:09:11] Brian Kavicky: You say no sometimes to, "Well, I wanted to live here, but this job took us here. I have to say no to this."
[00:09:18] Brian Kavicky: Then you decide to have kids. Now you have all these other things — I can't go to the bar till two in the morning with kids as easily. Like, it's just no after no after no.
[00:09:28] Brian Kavicky: So it's knowing that the more important a decision is to you, and the more it aligns with your values, you're going to have a lot of no's. But all of those no's get you to the yes that you wanted to.
[00:09:38] Brian Kavicky: So if you're unwilling to say no, it means either the decision wasn't important enough to you, it wasn't a big enough decision, or you're just afraid of saying no.
[00:09:47] Brian Kavicky: And then we're back to the guilt thing — "Well, I'll feel guilty if I say no." So other people are more important than you?
[00:09:53] Brian Kavicky: You have to, at some point, say: what is important to me matters, and this is how I'm going to carry out my life.
[00:10:00] Brian Kavicky: And you might not have the tools to do that. You may not know how to solidify that. But it all starts with: I have decided, and I'm going to do the things required in order to make that decision work.
[00:10:11] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:20] Tiffany Sauder: I picture — you know when you use a washcloth that's super absorbent and it just sucks up everything around it? And then at some point it can't take on its own chosen water because it's waterlogged by everything else that's soaked up.
[00:10:33] Tiffany Sauder: Or you have something that's waterproof and it literally repels everything unless you intentionally put it underneath something.
[00:10:40] Tiffany Sauder: That's the word picture that's coming to mind when you talk about being so clear in your priorities that sort of everything starts with this Teflon quality — like it just rolls off.
[00:10:50] Tiffany Sauder: Like no — it sort of starts with no, it doesn't fit — because this is taking up so much of my energy and priority. Versus this washcloth that's got no finish to it and it just soaks up whatever is around it. That life becomes other people's priorities.
[00:11:04] Tiffany Sauder: I remember when I was in the thick of it at the agency — and you were with me in that journey too. Where I realized I had to get to a spot where this company only worked if it worked for me. It only worked if it worked for my priorities, my financial goals, my career ambitions.
[00:11:18] Tiffany Sauder: I started it by saying, "I want all of my people to be super happy." And when that was what guided me, I became so empty and misguided that I didn't actually have a rudder in any capacity — because everybody else's 70 goals and priorities were the things that were deciding.
[00:11:35] Tiffany Sauder: As I started to say, "This is what the business growth has to be because this is exactly what our family needs from it, and this is what role I want to play in it" — then everything came from that. And it attracted people who wanted to go do that. So then everybody was aligned.
[00:11:50] Tiffany Sauder: Which feels so obvious when you say it out loud, but it felt very noble to be a leader who was sort of working for their people, and very noble to say, "This isn't about me, it's about them." But it creates a rudderless environment.
[00:12:12] Brian Kavicky: Yeah. And what's interesting about that example is that when you're trying to please the 70, nobody's happy. When you say, "I'm gonna build this around the one," everybody figures out how to bolt onto that goal — and then everybody's happy.
[00:12:25] Brian Kavicky: Not only are they rowing in the same direction, but they're actually making it theirs. "This is my way to get to my goals if I do these things in this business. Because what I need is still important — so here I am, plug it in."
[00:12:38] Brian Kavicky: And that's what gets them rowing — because if the leader is saying, "This is what's important to me," the leader is better at making sure that everybody else gets that need.
[00:12:48] Brian Kavicky: But when the leader defers to the group, they've deferred their agency and what they were going to do — and they don't know how to get everybody happy. Which is why you get pulled in 70 different directions.
[00:13:03] Tiffany Sauder: Totally. And in that situation, where I have enough money, enough time, and it's sustainable from an energy perspective — then I have excess to share with everyone.
[00:13:12] Tiffany Sauder: When I don't have those things, I don't have it to share. And it's the same thing when we're leading our homes.
[00:13:18] Tiffany Sauder: When you feel like you're a priority — you feel healthy, you feel good about yourself, you feel like you have extra energy and joy and capacity to share with your family — they then receive it and they have more to share with the family as well.
[00:13:30] Tiffany Sauder: Versus you being this depleted, shriveled prune of a human being trying to give anything to them.
[00:13:36] Tiffany Sauder: So it is kind of this shift where — when you put yourself in this sort of state of selfishness — you actually are in a capacity to give with more abundance.
[00:13:55] Tiffany Sauder: How would you summarize it?
[00:13:57] Brian Kavicky: I would change the word "selfish" — I know it's a gross word. I would use it more as: if my cup is empty, I have nothing to give others.
[00:14:05] Brian Kavicky: So I have to always be focusing on filling my cup first so that I can give the rest to others. And as soon as I pour that cup out, I have to keep refilling it all the time.
[00:14:15] Brian Kavicky: So you have to decide — this is what fills my cup, this is what I want it to be, this is all those things — and then go do all the stuff you want to do to serve others, take care of others, all those things.
[00:14:26] Brian Kavicky: But when you do it the opposite way, you're just holding out an empty cup. And nobody — including you — is benefiting from that.
[00:14:34] Tiffany Sauder: That's exactly right. So if a woman listening to this is saying, "I feel like I'm an empty cup trying to fill others," how does she begin this journey of saying, "I've gotta get my cup filled first"?
[00:14:52] Brian Kavicky: Well, sit down and decide — these are the things that would fill my cup. And start with a list of completely unrealistic things.
[00:15:00] Brian Kavicky: Then once you have the list of completely unrealistic things that you think would fill your cup — it could be crazy, like travel ten to twelve times a year and get a massage every week — write that all down and then write the reason next to it. Why you can't do that.
[00:15:14] Brian Kavicky: And I guarantee that as you start to write those reasons you can't, at some point you're gonna go, "Wait — I could actually figure this out."
[00:15:22] Brian Kavicky: Because that's how your brain's wiring is: you start with "I can't," and then you stop. But when you have to put meat on that and say, "Well, why can't you?" — you start to figure things out. And you'll realize that a lot more of that list you could actually do, if you put effort towards those things.
[00:15:38] Tiffany Sauder: Why is it important to make it extreme?
[00:15:40] Brian Kavicky: Well, it's about setting the bar high. So if I'm here and I technically want to get to here, in order to figure out how to get to here, I have to go higher than that — I have to go above it.
[00:15:50] Brian Kavicky: Because when you were a little kid, you had all these dreams, hopes, and ambitions. You wanted to be a space astronaut, you wanted to be a nurse, you wanted to be a doctor. You had all these things.
[00:16:00] Brian Kavicky: And somehow as you enter this adult stage, you start to apply realism. And "realistic" is not really a thing — it's just an excuse you made for why you didn't do those things, or your choices changed, or something was different.
[00:16:12] Brian Kavicky: So when you start dreaming about things, your brain starts figuring out how to give you those things — how to make sure there's possibility. And you start working towards it, and you get all this momentum and excitement.
[00:16:22] Brian Kavicky: "If I did this and I do this and I can figure out this" — and all of a sudden you're problem-solving your way to an unrealistic thing that's actually realistic.
[00:16:30] Brian Kavicky: I did this exercise with a client years ago. I said, "We're gonna make a bucket list." And his bucket list was things like: go to an Indianapolis Pacers game, own a home, go to the Indy 500, ride this rollercoaster at Disney World.
[00:16:44] Brian Kavicky: I was like, "If you called three people, you could get tickets to any of these things. You could go tomorrow." And he goes, "You can? It's that easy?" He had no idea. He'd never explored.
[00:16:53] Brian Kavicky: And also on that list, he said, "I want to lose a hundred pounds in a year." So we have: go to the Indy 500 equals lose a hundred pounds. To him, it was all momentous.
[00:17:04] Brian Kavicky: But when it's like, "Oh, I just gotta do this" — he thought it was crazy that he could go to the Indy 500. It was even crazier that he lost a hundred pounds. And he did all those things because he started to figure out and learn how to do it.
[00:17:34] Tiffany Sauder: I had a conversation with a woman — I just want to talk about this goals thing a little bit — because if your cup is empty, understanding what you want can actually feel overwhelming.
[00:17:44] Tiffany Sauder: And one of the questions I ask often is: "What's one thing that you wish you had in your life that you didn't?" And one woman — raise your hand — she said, "Travel."
[00:17:53] Tiffany Sauder: And I said, "Okay, well why? You don't go anywhere?" And she said, "No, we do travel, but oftentimes it's to the same places 'cause we have family we have to visit and that sort of takes our vacation days."
[00:18:04] Tiffany Sauder: And I said, "Well, what's really behind travel?" And she said, "I want adventure."
[00:18:09] Tiffany Sauder: And the conversation got her to understand: it's adventure. Travel is your first idea for how to get adventure. But are there other ways you could explore this idea of adventure?
[00:18:18] Tiffany Sauder: So I guess what I'm prompting in this is — not only writing out your insane things, like "I want to get a massage every week and how much does that cost and can I figure out how to do that" — but also asking yourself: what's the spirit behind it?
[00:18:30] Tiffany Sauder: 'Cause her instinct was, "The way to do that is to go to other countries." And it's like — maybe. But maybe you could go to a Moroccan restaurant and find a Moroccan outfit and go with a Moroccan friend. Or take a hot air balloon ride at night. Yes — exactly. Like, there are all kinds of ways.
[00:18:46] Tiffany Sauder: And so I think oftentimes our first idea — our brain can be like, "No, you can't." But if you really ask yourself, "What is it I'm really trying to make happen in my life?" — surprise, adventure, growth — oftentimes you can find a way to get there. But it might not be your first idea.
[00:19:04] Brian Kavicky: Yep.
[00:19:08] Tiffany Sauder: So — awesome. Thanks Brian for joining me.
[00:19:11] Tiffany Sauder: Thank you guys for joining me in this episode of The Life of "And." It is so important that we care about filling our own cup.
[00:19:18] Tiffany Sauder: And I think we have a role as women to police one another in this idea — when we see one another walking around with an empty cup, that we don't join in the chorus that says, "Yeah, girl, me too."
[00:19:28] Tiffany Sauder: But we stop and actually say, "Can I help you understand what's important to you so that you can actually make that happen in your life?"
[00:19:36] Tiffany Sauder: What do we unleash in our world and in our culture when that is the position that we're working from as women?
[00:19:43] Tiffany Sauder: So if you're interested in connecting with Brian or his team at Lushin, there is a link in the show notes. He has been an incredible partner for me, not only in my own growth as a leader, but in all of the businesses that I own.
[00:19:55] Tiffany Sauder: So thanks Brian for joining me, and thank you all for joining us this week in the life of "and."