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Stacey Flaster and Dori Goldman are two ladies obsessed with cults and true crime. Join them as they take us into the depths of some of the most notorious cults, crimes, and killers that the world has ever known. They consume content and ask deep dark questions that only a certified expert can answer... enter Dr. John Mayer. Dr. John is an internationally known Forensic Psychologist and expert on violent behavior and crime prevention, with 35 years of experience consulting to law enforcement and testifying in hundreds of court cases as an expert witness. He is the "Real Deal" and will help Stacey and Dori get to the bottom of of their curious criminal minds.
00:00:13:04 - 00:00:22:12
Stacey
In April 2024, a young worship leader named Micah Miller was found dead in a South Carolina state park. Police called it a suicide.
00:00:22:14 - 00:00:31:10
Dori
Her family didn't believe it. And by the time Netflix caught up with the story three years later, most of the country didn't either.
00:00:31:12 - 00:00:40:19
Stacey
Micah had grown up in her husband's church. He was the pastor. Charismatic, magnetic, the kind of man a congregation would follow anywhere.
00:00:40:21 - 00:00:53:03
Dori
She met him at 13. Married him at 18. And for years she played the role. She was raised to play the pastor's wife. Always in the front pew, always smiling.
00:00:53:06 - 00:01:06:06
Stacey
But behind the sermons and the Sunday mornings, friends and family say something else was happening. Allegations of control, of stalking, of abuse. She was too afraid or two trapped to fully name.
00:01:06:08 - 00:01:18:08
Dori
In the months before she died. Micah had already started trying to leave. She called the police. She filed for separation. She was by every account. Fighting to get out.
00:01:18:10 - 00:01:30:07
Stacey
And then on April 27th, she drove to a pawn shop, bought a gun, and drove to a state park. What happened next is where the official story and the family's story split wide open.
00:01:30:09 - 00:01:41:07
Dori
This is death of the Pastor's Wife, a three part Netflix documentary from the directors behind the murder, murders and American murder. Gabby Petito.
00:01:41:09 - 00:02:04:10
Stacey
It's a story about faith used as a weapon, a church that looked away and a woman who spent her whole life being believed by no one. Until now. This episode discusses domestic abuse, coercive control and suicide. Please, please seek mental health qualified specialists if you have any issues.
00:02:04:13 - 00:02:07:03
Stacey
Let's get into it.
00:02:07:05 - 00:02:13:25
Speaker 1
Outside my window.
00:02:13:28 - 00:02:16:29
Speaker 1
Who
00:02:17:01 - 00:02:20:05
Speaker 1
When the wind
00:02:20:08 - 00:02:25:09
Speaker 1
in. I feel pain.
00:02:25:11 - 00:02:35:09
Speaker 1
every.
00:02:35:12 - 00:02:40:04
Speaker 1
May.
00:02:40:06 - 00:03:02:10
Dori
Another church cult with pastor, the leader that is a groomer and a well, John will get the term right. I say a psychopath, but, obviously a master manipulator and a groomer. This girl was his wife. They met at 13.
00:03:02:12 - 00:03:05:01
Stacey
He was at least he was married.
00:03:05:03 - 00:03:11:01
Dori
He was married at the time, and then he was 15 years older. He was 15 years old, years older.
00:03:11:03 - 00:03:16:25
Stacey
And she married a young guy. It is you know, it is similar when she was, I think, 18. Micah.
00:03:16:25 - 00:03:17:23
Dori
Micah, the wife.
00:03:17:23 - 00:03:26:17
Stacey
Of married Micah Michael, who ended up being the pastor's wife, was married. And then she left her husband and he left his wife for Jack.
00:03:26:19 - 00:03:29:09
Dori
For Jay. Yeah. She left the young.
00:03:29:11 - 00:03:47:08
Stacey
For John, for John Paul, the pastor and manipulator. And really crazy man, a real you know, it was interesting. Everything he preached was the things that were wrong with him. It's a.
00:03:47:08 - 00:03:48:04
Dori
Confession.
00:03:48:04 - 00:04:20:18
Stacey
Everything you sacrifice, everything was a confession. You know, from, you know, adultery to all these things, you know, this thing, these things are bad. You shouldn't do these things. And it was like you're saying the quiet part out loud, dude, and read the room, baby. You're the one. I'm not sure why people are, like, training the Seals, but we're seeing that a lot lately with people just applauding it for for absolute psychotic and very on Jesus like behavior.
00:04:20:19 - 00:04:43:27
Stacey
Now, let me tell you something. I think Micah, to me, was a real Christian, really cared deeply for people. And she had empathy. And she was a singer and she had a gorgeous voice, had great sisters and family. It seemed very caring, loving family. And it just she just disappeared. And it was like, almost like no one could help her.
00:04:43:27 - 00:04:59:22
Stacey
No one could save her. He isolated her. You know, the typical, you know, cult like behavior of isolating somebody, gaslighting them, making them think they're crazy, and then they're in this little bubble and they can then call control coercive control.
00:04:59:25 - 00:05:08:13
Dori
Yeah, sorry, that was a grant. But no, it's a good rant. And he listen attractive fella right.
00:05:08:13 - 00:05:12:14
Stacey
Yeah. Nice looking guy. Nice looking guy. Definitely.
00:05:12:16 - 00:05:46:04
Dori
Who obviously took takes extreme advantage of women and thinks that he is the end all, be all and therefore, like, they didn't get into too much about his first wife. Right. Like Sheila. But he there's obviously something going on with that. And he had children and they didn't go into what kind of a dad he is. Nowadays I think we're hearing I think from the green room, I'm hearing a ring.
00:05:46:04 - 00:06:03:17
Stacey
Yeah, yeah, I think doctors I think John is getting a call from Jesus right now. Yeah. Do you, So, yeah, I mean, oh, I mean, Dori talk about. I mean, let's talk about, like, what he was preaching.
00:06:03:19 - 00:06:29:00
Dori
Well, wait. Okay. So. Yeah. So what? He was. So I found it like, well, one, the fact that he still has people that follow him and that he is not in prison to this day is absolutely absurd to me. But he was preaching the fact that essentially the women have to a lot have to have a lot of sex with their men.
00:06:29:02 - 00:07:01:24
Dori
If the man needs it, the woman has to have it. And what we found, and that really was and again, they they obviously, you know, like showed what they wanted to of the sermons in the documentary. So it was clips of everything, but they all strung together. It sounded like he was really into obviously sex. And from Micah's perspective, they had sex multiple times a day for strangers, sometimes with homeless people.
00:07:01:24 - 00:07:28:08
Dori
He would pay homeless people to have sex with her. What kind of a pastor? Let's just say, okay, what type of a human being, I get it. But what if this is a pastor, somebody that people go to for guidance and you know that this is true? Why would you continue to go to this church to listen to this asshole?
00:07:28:08 - 00:08:00:06
Stacey
I know why. Okay. So it's much like, you know, these pastors, these I call them fake pastors because I don't believe that they're real pastors. Somebody like Doug Wilson, who's p Texas pastor, these guys hide behind religion, and they, they create a, a doctrine that people, for some reason, swallow and they forgive because in, in evangelical Christianity, any if you ask God for forgiveness, it's forgiven.
00:08:00:06 - 00:08:12:13
Stacey
So, so stealing a loaf of bread like Jean Valjean from a store and and sexually assaulting a child are the same thing.
00:08:12:16 - 00:08:15:03
Dori
Also the same level, a court.
00:08:15:03 - 00:08:34:15
Stacey
Everything is the same level. As long as you ask for forgiveness and God has forgiven you, which is fake. How do we even know God has forgiven you? That means you're clean in the religious aspect. It's not not an A, not if you have a judge and jury. Not if you're in a real setting where there's real people that understand stuff.
00:08:34:22 - 00:08:45:12
Stacey
These people are absolutely brainwashed and they believe what they hear and they don't believe the other things. They can't believe it and they don't believe it.
00:08:45:15 - 00:09:11:04
Dori
Well, but one would think that this lovely young lady, Micah, who grew up, I love her. And you are. You are absolutely right. I mean, anybody who watches this knows she has pure intentions. She pure love. Jesus is not really into God. She wanted to serve. She wanted to help other people. Why would a parish? Is that what it's called?
00:09:11:07 - 00:09:11:19
Dori
The.
00:09:11:21 - 00:09:13:20
Stacey
Yeah, I guess it's a parish.
00:09:13:22 - 00:09:24:29
Dori
Why would these people who knew her for so long and then she passes away, right? I believe.
00:09:25:04 - 00:09:26:13
Stacey
That was the weirdest service.
00:09:26:15 - 00:09:49:25
Dori
Side. But she could have been murdered by him. Who knows? Again, he's still walking to this. He's still out a free man. To this day, we don't know. But if I were a part of a parish, a congregation, whatever it may be, I would have serious questions. Oh, yeah.
00:09:50:02 - 00:09:55:10
Stacey
But as your aunt said, you're normal. You're normal. You have a you have you have the.
00:09:55:10 - 00:10:10:13
Dori
Ability to think that we're a part of this church. See, like the people who spoke in the documentary, her friend like, even like the Bible counselor who met woman like. Yeah. Yeah, like even like they.
00:10:10:13 - 00:10:16:25
Stacey
Actually broke through. She believed the woman. I mean, she believed that he was a bad person. Eventually she left the church.
00:10:16:27 - 00:10:41:23
Dori
Right? Yeah. But. Right. But they seem like decent people. I, you know, we believe very different things. But I guess I'm bringing it down to just the level of humanity and common sense and, like, how is it that all these people and the church no longer exists? But again, he is still preaching just in, not in like a brick and mortar of that.
00:10:41:26 - 00:10:42:16
Stacey
Building, right?
00:10:42:21 - 00:10:43:17
Dori
Church or whatever.
00:10:43:17 - 00:10:52:06
Stacey
Well, you know what? Whatever it was called, it sounded like like hard something. And I was like, this sounds like a sexual term. What's the name of the church, John?
00:10:52:08 - 00:10:53:25
Dr. John Mayer
Rock solid. Yeah.
00:10:53:28 - 00:10:56:00
Stacey
Rock solid. Church.
00:10:56:02 - 00:10:57:19
Dori
The rock. Sapp.
00:10:57:20 - 00:10:58:24
Stacey
The rock. Yeah. Rock.
00:10:58:25 - 00:11:03:16
Dori
Did his dad did John Paul's dad name. That wasn't John, maybe.
00:11:03:16 - 00:11:19:26
Stacey
And his dad was a creep. His dad was also a creep. But don't you don't you think that this is scary? Because this is not just rock hard church, you know, this is other churches all over the country.
00:11:19:29 - 00:11:27:09
Dori
Wait a second. Is it really called rock? It's. There's no way this is call. It's not.
00:11:27:09 - 00:11:29:22
Stacey
My father. I'm just fucking.
00:11:29:22 - 00:11:31:06
Dori
Church.
00:11:31:08 - 00:11:31:28
Stacey
What is it again?
00:11:31:29 - 00:11:33:06
Dori
John? Showing up with me.
00:11:33:09 - 00:11:34:25
Dr. John Mayer
Rock solid.
00:11:34:28 - 00:11:36:20
Stacey
That's why I got it.
00:11:36:23 - 00:11:37:08
Dr. John Mayer
I like.
00:11:37:08 - 00:11:38:01
Stacey
Rock solid.
00:11:38:01 - 00:11:38:24
Dr. John Mayer
Church.
00:11:38:27 - 00:11:41:27
Stacey
I know rock hard. Sure, like this guy's hard. Not that.
00:11:41:28 - 00:11:44:09
Dori
Hard, but it's.
00:11:44:11 - 00:11:48:10
Dr. John Mayer
Hard. Rock hard when have an all male congregation.
00:11:48:13 - 00:11:50:11
Stacey
You know, I could go to rock hard.
00:11:50:11 - 00:11:55:14
Dori
I would absolutely be no Viagra lounge female at rock.
00:11:55:16 - 00:12:01:25
Stacey
Yeah. Rock hard church. No no Viagra loud. So, you know, it's it's insane.
00:12:02:00 - 00:12:06:15
Unknown
Oh. They.
00:12:06:18 - 00:12:11:13
Dori
It is not called rock solid. It is called solid rock, but.
00:12:11:15 - 00:12:12:15
Dr. John Mayer
Oh, back then it.
00:12:12:15 - 00:12:20:06
Dori
Was rock hard to rock solid. I had it is.
00:12:20:08 - 00:12:21:12
Dr. John Mayer
Oh, rock.
00:12:21:15 - 00:12:24:01
Stacey
He was obviously he was.
00:12:24:02 - 00:12:26:14
Dr. John Mayer
Whatever it is, it's it's a scam.
00:12:26:15 - 00:12:27:15
Stacey
I mean, it's a sham.
00:12:27:16 - 00:12:31:26
Dori
But he was just the doctors in now. So just join the club.
00:12:31:26 - 00:12:33:01
Dr. John Mayer
I mean, I can't, I just go.
00:12:33:06 - 00:12:34:06
Dori
Whoa with rock.
00:12:34:06 - 00:12:43:13
Dr. John Mayer
I can't even I can't even introduce my doing it here. And Jeremy, you're still in the doghouse for showing up late today. Donut or not? Donut.
00:12:43:13 - 00:12:45:19
Dori
You know that's not good. What kind of donut is he?
00:12:45:19 - 00:12:50:10
Dr. John Mayer
You know, I don't know. Let's let's see.
00:12:50:12 - 00:12:53:09
Stacey
What kind of cream kind of donut is that?
00:12:53:12 - 00:12:56:06
Dr. John Mayer
It's like a pistachio cream. It's great. Ooh.
00:12:56:09 - 00:12:57:13
Dori
We we're gonna.
00:12:57:15 - 00:12:59:17
Stacey
We're all in Nashville.
00:12:59:20 - 00:13:02:23
Dr. John Mayer
I'm not revealing because they should be a, sponsor.
00:13:02:23 - 00:13:04:00
Dori
Sponsor?
00:13:04:03 - 00:13:07:23
Dr. John Mayer
Okay. They're great though. I'll tell you off off camera where I get.
00:13:07:23 - 00:13:13:28
Dori
Okay, I like that. All right. So. So, yeah, we've been blathering and going all over the place. This.
00:13:14:00 - 00:13:30:05
Stacey
But I want to say low key. I love her voice. And I would listen to her sing. And I'm really sad, you know, that. She she was beautiful and she had a beautiful body. And then he started pumping or with testosterone or she was taking it so she'd have a bigger sex drive so she could sleep with him four times a day.
00:13:30:09 - 00:13:34:25
Stacey
That that is, that is what I consider marital.
00:13:34:27 - 00:14:01:18
Dori
Yeah. Wait, so he was wait. He. And also, we didn't even get into the fact that he was the one administering drugs for her, and he was the one in complete control saying that she went crazy. He committed her like he had all this power over her. And he is I keep saying it's still walking the streets a free man.
00:14:01:21 - 00:14:05:11
Dori
How does this happen?
00:14:05:13 - 00:14:30:17
Dr. John Mayer
Well, let me interrupt with that comment or. Yes, and I'm absolutely pissed off that this guy is walking around the world, but he does have two counts of federal counts, against him. And he will go to trial in October year 2006. He's on bond. So he did bond himself out, but he is not getting away with this.
00:14:30:17 - 00:14:30:28
Dr. John Mayer
Okay.
00:14:30:28 - 00:14:44:29
Dori
Three oh, and we also didn't even bring up to that. He's now married to a woman whose husband was confined to a wheelchair. That yes, around you seriously.
00:14:45:01 - 00:14:46:07
Dr. John Mayer
Seriously drowned.
00:14:46:08 - 00:15:12:08
Dori
And the and she was part of the rock hard rock solid solid rock church as well. And they were having an affair. And then Mike, dies. And now a year later, they're married. That. But she was the physical therapist of the husband. She. Right? She was the physical therapist of the guy. The vice.
00:15:12:10 - 00:15:13:11
Stacey
Chair. Yeah.
00:15:13:14 - 00:15:15:22
Dori
Yeah. Yes. Who drowned? Yeah.
00:15:15:23 - 00:15:21:03
Stacey
Yeah, yeah, he drowned. And they they make it seem like he wheeled himself in there and drowned.
00:15:21:06 - 00:15:24:24
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah, but they're very suspicious. Sir.
00:15:24:26 - 00:15:25:10
Stacey
All of it.
00:15:25:11 - 00:15:51:03
Dr. John Mayer
Is here. And, you know, let's face it, we could postulate that, JP pushed the guy into the pool. They tried, you know, there's so many facts in this case that we could spend hours on, on the facts. And this documentary, which was a good documentary, but again, puts us in the position of getting behind this story, not only the documentary.
00:15:51:06 - 00:16:13:24
Dr. John Mayer
I just happened accidentally. And Stacy is usually the one that finds this stuff. I found some ancillary information that I think is going to be very interesting, that just popped up on my emails about this, which I'll get to later. But, again, the documentary gives us our job, which is to get behind this. What's going on?
00:16:13:26 - 00:16:40:03
Dr. John Mayer
Even, happened to look into another very popular podcast that broadcast on this. And I won't mention Crime Junkie. But, again, they're just trying. These podcasts are trying to be detectives. We're trying to tell you, audience, what's behind all this. And I think we have some really good things to say here, but, Dory, he's not going to go scot free.
00:16:40:03 - 00:16:47:04
Dr. John Mayer
And I think the evidence against him is pretty compelling that something will be he'll get some kind of punishment or.
00:16:47:05 - 00:16:47:23
Dori
No.
00:16:47:24 - 00:16:48:03
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah.
00:16:48:07 - 00:16:51:01
Dori
Never do you never know.
00:16:51:02 - 00:17:02:21
Stacey
You never know. I mean, do people get punished anymore or is it just people they shouldn't be punished? Did did he? I mean, did he ask his best friend to kill her? Why was she there? It just felt. Really remember that.
00:17:02:22 - 00:17:10:29
Dori
Yeah, we did talk about the best friend that. Yeah. Went to the best friend at his best friend at all. We'll remember to.
00:17:10:29 - 00:17:21:18
Stacey
See that video of the New Orleans. And that guy was on film saying he was going to kill himself, and he really was being told to say it. Why? Why did we not, you know, why do we not explore that angle?
00:17:21:25 - 00:17:32:21
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And this at this best friend is, is was really compliant with this whole thing because I think he gave a call to Mike at some point. And, that.
00:17:32:21 - 00:17:34:23
Dori
Was Mark Hoffman, the best friend.
00:17:34:25 - 00:17:58:16
Dr. John Mayer
Yes. Yes. And was just in bed with, John Paul, literally, because there wasn't another one of these sexual facts was that, the best friend and John Paul were in bed with MCA and they were supposed to pick up, a hooker from the airport to join them in some kind of, What what's.
00:17:58:16 - 00:17:59:14
Stacey
Nice?
00:17:59:16 - 00:18:00:05
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah. What's the.
00:18:00:08 - 00:18:01:19
Stacey
Yeah.
00:18:01:22 - 00:18:03:20
Dr. John Mayer
What's a foursome? What's a foursome? Is it.
00:18:03:21 - 00:18:06:19
Dori
Quattro? Oh my God. What? Bro?
00:18:06:21 - 00:18:07:12
Stacey
What?
00:18:07:15 - 00:18:13:09
Dori
Wait, they had to fly in a hooker. They couldn't. They. They probably ran out.
00:18:13:09 - 00:18:14:12
Stacey
Of a hooker.
00:18:14:13 - 00:18:18:01
Dori
Homeless people area, so they had to fly.
00:18:18:01 - 00:18:34:04
Dr. John Mayer
Exactly a can we accentuate that for the audience? Yeah. Can anybody believe how depraved this was? That John Paul would ride with Micah and pick up homeless people on the street? They have.
00:18:34:04 - 00:18:35:28
Stacey
Sex. Really weird.
00:18:36:00 - 00:18:37:08
Dr. John Mayer
That the sad.
00:18:37:08 - 00:19:04:25
Dori
Thing is, like, she here is a good human being who just wanted to help people. And yeah, praise the Lord and here she is peeing in her own mind, thinking I have to. He's my husband. I'm loyal to my husband. He wants to have sex with all these homeless people. He has this high sex drive. It's what he preaches.
00:19:04:29 - 00:19:09:25
Dori
We have to be obedient to the man. So I'm going to do this.
00:19:09:27 - 00:19:13:28
Dr. John Mayer
His forces her to have breast, implants.
00:19:14:03 - 00:19:15:02
Dori
Segmentation.
00:19:15:02 - 00:19:18:08
Dr. John Mayer
Man, you know? Then I know people have.
00:19:18:08 - 00:19:22:12
Stacey
Done that before us. I sure you do too.
00:19:22:13 - 00:19:26:22
Dr. John Mayer
I know, I know a woman that, was seeing a man, and he insisted on,
00:19:26:22 - 00:19:32:23
Dr. John Mayer
getting breast implants and paid for them. For her. You know what she said? Oh, well, he's going to pay for it. Okay. It's not like, really.
00:19:32:23 - 00:19:48:07
Dori
I mean, if anybody. I'm just going to throw this out there. If anybody wants to send money so that I can get a breast lift, I'm not going to turn it down. I can get a go fund me. I could get any of these lifted. I would be very happy on our bias.
00:19:48:08 - 00:19:55:02
Dr. John Mayer
A coffee. You know, I do worry about I. What a lift I lift.
00:19:55:02 - 00:19:58:20
Stacey
I mean, I can set you up with a doctor. You know, I've had a lot of experience in this area.
00:19:58:20 - 00:20:05:26
Dori
I do know, like what? You're. Yes, but, like, mine would just be simply for, you know, and for water, for.
00:20:05:26 - 00:20:06:27
Stacey
Shots and giggles.
00:20:06:28 - 00:20:14:20
Dr. John Mayer
Hiring. I can't wait. I don't I'm not I'm not an expert. I'm not an expert in this area. But can't you just buy a different bra that.
00:20:14:26 - 00:20:24:27
Dori
Oh I mean I do wear like I a but nowadays too, I don't, I don't even want to get into it. But like underwire it just hurts. I'm old. I'm like, I'd rather be like free sports bra.
00:20:24:28 - 00:20:34:08
Stacey
Hey, listen, I'm with you. I don't even wear a bra. Audience. You never heard that right now, where I live, free.
00:20:34:10 - 00:20:38:16
Dr. John Mayer
I have a really bad image in my head right now. So let's hurry. Let's move.
00:20:38:19 - 00:20:39:21
Stacey
Okay, let's get that.
00:20:39:24 - 00:20:45:03
Dr. John Mayer
What can I say? Some. You know where we left off? Yes. 13 year old girl.
00:20:45:05 - 00:20:45:19
Stacey
Yes.
00:20:45:27 - 00:20:46:27
Dr. John Mayer
Now here's us.
00:20:47:01 - 00:20:54:10
Dori
28. So let's just say it. He was 28 and she was 13 when they initially met.
00:20:54:16 - 00:20:55:11
Stacey
Okay.
00:20:55:14 - 00:20:59:28
Dr. John Mayer
And the other thing is, in this whole documentary, where were her parents?
00:21:00:01 - 00:21:01:15
Stacey
Don't know.
00:21:01:17 - 00:21:07:10
Dr. John Mayer
Which tells me where were her parents in her life, which is.
00:21:07:12 - 00:21:10:00
Dori
Like she has a lot of siblings, right?
00:21:10:00 - 00:21:12:02
Dr. John Mayer
It's the siblings were amazing.
00:21:12:02 - 00:21:12:14
Dori
Amazing.
00:21:12:17 - 00:21:14:10
Stacey
Amazing. I like the brother.
00:21:14:13 - 00:21:26:29
Dr. John Mayer
And angry against this whole thing. Yes, but wouldn't a parent would you listen? I don't know, 13 year old child be a part of this crazy mix of, the Rock Head Church? Or what if.
00:21:27:01 - 00:21:34:09
Dori
They didn't know it if I complained because it wasn't a crazy church at the time.
00:21:34:11 - 00:21:34:27
Dr. John Mayer
I don't know.
00:21:34:28 - 00:21:57:11
Dori
No, no, no, but I'm saying, like, she wanted something to find the Lord and went to the, like, got introduced to these people and really I think like was very involved. And she got to sing there. She got it. So it's like maybe as a parent you go like like my, you know, like we did theater, we did this or that.
00:21:57:11 - 00:22:05:13
Dori
Like you're in it for a while. Until you're what? Wait until she got until she got engaged. Yeah. When the parents should be like the dory.
00:22:05:15 - 00:22:12:05
Dr. John Mayer
Dory, think about 13 year old girl. Your parents went to your performances and saw what was going on.
00:22:12:07 - 00:22:15:26
Dori
Oh, so you're saying the parents never went to church? Told to.
00:22:15:27 - 00:22:18:01
Dr. John Mayer
The absent? I don't think they did.
00:22:18:03 - 00:22:19:28
Dori
I don't know, and.
00:22:20:00 - 00:22:21:27
Stacey
I thought you didn't. They're not online.
00:22:21:29 - 00:22:24:22
Dori
I thought that some of the sightings were a part of the church.
00:22:24:22 - 00:22:26:22
Dr. John Mayer
No, I think they were.
00:22:26:24 - 00:22:28:17
Dori
I think at the beginning.
00:22:28:24 - 00:22:46:29
Stacey
I think a couple of them might have been at the beginning, but we never saw the parents. And by the way, let me add one thing, JP John Paul, he should stick to piano. Why didn't he just continue playing the piano? He was terrific. He could have traveled the country with her singing and that would have been it.
00:22:47:02 - 00:22:49:15
Dr. John Mayer
Well, they could have been the new carpenters or something, I don't know.
00:22:49:16 - 00:22:55:06
Stacey
Yeah, exactly. After long enough of being alone.
00:22:55:08 - 00:22:58:25
Dr. John Mayer
So, Why? Because carpenters stick, man. Let's be.
00:22:59:00 - 00:22:59:25
Stacey
Right. Right, right. He's a.
00:22:59:25 - 00:23:20:11
Dr. John Mayer
Sick man. Let's get now, Dory throughout the word psychopath. And it's. And, And I thank you for that, Diane. I'm not criticizing you, but I think that's the low hanging fruit. You know, I think the low hanging fruit. I have two theories about this. JP, can you go with the first one?
00:23:20:13 - 00:23:35:15
Dr. John Mayer
He got Micah diagnosed as bipolar. Bipolar and got her on medication. Strong medication, which I'll get into. But you know what? I think that was projection on his part. He was.
00:23:35:16 - 00:23:37:09
Stacey
Everything is projection on him. Yeah.
00:23:37:12 - 00:24:07:11
Dr. John Mayer
Because one of the characteristics of a bipolar individuals, some bipolar individuals, is hyper sexuality. And this guy had hyper sexual because it comes out of them, that manic phase of bipolar. So that's a strong, supposition by me that he was bipolar and got Micah diagnosed bipolar because he was projecting his own, deficits.
00:24:07:11 - 00:24:28:15
Dori
Do you think, though, with that? And I definitely that's, spot on. Do you think, though, did it come out? You know, because sometimes I say I'm typing away as I'm watching this documentary so I don't pay exact attention, but did it, did it come out? Was he ever on drugs himself?
00:24:28:16 - 00:24:53:20
Dr. John Mayer
Oh, that's. You took this. Do you took what does that phrase you took the steam out of my engine or whatever? That. Hell, yes. That's my second one. I have a feeling he was on cocaine. I have had any number of cocaine users. What happens to what happens with cocaine? Great little, segment I'm gonna say here, audience.
00:24:53:22 - 00:25:24:19
Dr. John Mayer
What happens with cocaine? More than any other drug? It totally disrupts your pleasure center in your brain. Scientifically proven. So one of the things you see in people who use cocaine, especially over a long period of time, is that their sexual, depravity gets bigger and bigger and weirder and weirder, which explains the homeless people, all the all the affairs, this guy here, etc..
00:25:24:22 - 00:25:31:25
Dr. John Mayer
So it might even be a dual diagnosis, not only bipolar, but I got a feeling. Dory. You're brilliant.
00:25:31:25 - 00:25:33:03
Dori
Yeah, well, I.
00:25:33:03 - 00:25:34:09
Dr. John Mayer
Am really in drugs.
00:25:34:12 - 00:25:34:21
Stacey
You are.
00:25:34:21 - 00:25:35:26
Dori
Brilliant. I mean, I am.
00:25:35:26 - 00:25:37:28
Dr. John Mayer
Brilliant, but I shouldn't have been, so you.
00:25:37:28 - 00:25:40:03
Stacey
Should use it in your everyday life.
00:25:40:05 - 00:26:11:01
Dori
But also I really should. I should use it for good instead for my brilliant. You do us think though. Okay, so I definitely see that. And we do see we do see a lot of drugs, whether it be cocaine or prescription oxy whatever in these cults, in these churches. But so that's pretty regular. Do you also think that he was possibly taking some of her medication too?
00:26:11:09 - 00:26:21:05
Dori
Like, I mean, I guess it's total speculation, but if you think that he could be bipolar to would it. He wouldn't. I don't think.
00:26:21:05 - 00:26:21:27
Stacey
He was.
00:26:22:00 - 00:26:26:24
Dori
Her to get his own like to get him well medication as well. Right.
00:26:26:25 - 00:26:55:07
Dr. John Mayer
Let me address that point. It's it's a good it's a good theory Dory. But let me address this. She was on appropriate medication. You know, lithium is a very powerful, medication, but it's been, a tremendous relief to people with bipolar. Here's here's another thing that you need to understand. Audience about bipolar. Bipolar started as a diagnosis called manic depressive illness.
00:26:55:10 - 00:27:24:22
Dr. John Mayer
And the name changed with the, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, DSM three. I think it was where the name changed to bipolar, but at root it's, it's best explained as manic depressive. You can get highs and you get lows. Lithium isn't proven throughout the years to be extremely effective at balancing out the moods. It's a it's a powerful drug though.
00:27:24:22 - 00:27:39:22
Dr. John Mayer
In fact proper the dosage of it and medical management management of it is that you need to take blood tests on a regular basis. Very regularly because it does affect your, your.
00:27:39:24 - 00:27:44:01
Stacey
Is it just lithium just for bipolar? Bipolar is nothing.
00:27:44:02 - 00:27:45:19
Dr. John Mayer
Well, there's other medications.
00:27:45:22 - 00:27:50:02
Stacey
There's a but do you take something in conjunction with lithium when you have bipolar?
00:27:50:04 - 00:27:54:26
Dr. John Mayer
A lot of times you're prescribed that with but it's because of, different symptoms that the.
00:27:55:03 - 00:27:56:28
Stacey
Got it. Okay. Yeah that makes sense.
00:27:57:02 - 00:28:17:24
Dr. John Mayer
But the, the gold standard is lithium. Is another, you know, newer medication Abilify, which also is very good with, mood disorders. But here's the point. What I'm getting long explanation. The Dory's question, their common theory is that if he was taking the medication, we'd see him level out even.
00:28:17:24 - 00:28:21:23
Dori
Yeah, okay. But even if he was on, well, like cocaine.
00:28:21:23 - 00:28:43:14
Dr. John Mayer
That mixture of lithium cocaine would have zombie them out. And, you know, he would have been, you know, just even more of a crazy man. So. I don't think so. Long story short, I don't think he was taking her medication. But as the documentary well pointed out, he was withholding her medication. But I even have some question whether she was even bipolar.
00:28:43:16 - 00:28:49:13
Stacey
I don't think he probably wasn't. Yeah, he seems like she had anything wrong with her, except that she was high on Jesus.
00:28:49:17 - 00:28:56:12
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah. And then he nothing else. Twice he forced her into psychiatric hospitals, which was so beautiful.
00:28:56:12 - 00:29:17:24
Stacey
And when she would get on the on like face, whatever she was doing, getting on YouTube or making those announcements, I thought they were so wonderful. And yeah. Carmen. Yeah, I was like, this woman is amazing. I mean, can we talk about her death for one minute and, and talk about do we? Because we didn't really get a lot of what happened.
00:29:17:26 - 00:29:30:01
Stacey
I mean, I feel like it was that the very end of the documentary, she, you know, we heard the voice, her voice saying, I do you know where I am? You know, on my phone, I'm going to kill myself, you know all that.
00:29:30:06 - 00:29:53:26
Dori
But she sounded so calm. I know so so, yeah. What is your theory on that? Can somebody. She's. It sounded like she was, you know, and you never know in somebodys mind, but it sounded like she did. She was divorced. She was getting divorced. He was stalking her. So there was a lot of pressure. She didn't want to bring a lot of, trouble to her family.
00:29:54:01 - 00:30:26:27
Dori
So she'd really, like, dealt with this a lot. She was only like, around 30 years old. Yeah. When those calls, those recorded call, she did sound very calm. Do you think no one can maybe possibly being on lithium, being possibly being bipolar. Do you think that she was at the stage to kill herself, like, or do you think she possibly could have been off to buy or, you know, like like what happened?
00:30:26:27 - 00:30:40:21
Dori
Like, it didn't sound like she was a person that would from the documentaries perspective, it didn't sound like she was like, oh my God, I'm going to this is too much for me. I'm going to kill myself. But one never knows, I guess.
00:30:40:21 - 00:30:55:16
Dr. John Mayer
Well, bye bye. All the evidence the documentary presented, she was on a real good path in her life. She was finally making the steps to get a divorce and getting away from this guy. She had a job.
00:30:55:20 - 00:30:58:25
Stacey
I hated seeing him cry. I wanted to punch him.
00:30:58:29 - 00:31:13:04
Dr. John Mayer
Oh, that why this was. You see, that's the other thing that gives. Gives me either the the drug plus bipolar, assumption about him because, you know, that was just infantile. That was his.
00:31:13:06 - 00:31:15:17
Stacey
Name was lying on the grass crying. Yes.
00:31:15:23 - 00:31:17:00
Dr. John Mayer
Oh, yeah.
00:31:17:02 - 00:31:18:23
Stacey
It's a really. Yeah, really.
00:31:18:24 - 00:31:24:15
Dr. John Mayer
And I don't want them all the time. Before we talk about his father and, some of the things they found out, but.
00:31:24:19 - 00:31:25:15
Stacey
Oh, okay. Tell us.
00:31:25:15 - 00:31:38:00
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah, well, well, it's a closed off about this murder here. Yeah. I Dory could be possible that, JP had a gun to her head and made her say these things.
00:31:38:02 - 00:31:42:09
Dori
Yeah, very. Or maybe not, JP, but my friend.
00:31:42:12 - 00:31:43:06
Dr. John Mayer
The friend.
00:31:43:09 - 00:31:44:22
Stacey
The friend was.
00:31:44:25 - 00:31:47:12
Dori
Homeless. Or a homeless person.
00:31:47:13 - 00:32:19:18
Dr. John Mayer
Oh, one of those homeless sex partners. Because that. Yeah, that investigator from that news source, which I'm, I'm looking up right now because I want to mention them because I thought he was very he was very good. I forget his name. News Nation. Rick McHugh found out that the shells, the spent shells were 100ft or 100 yards away from where the body was found in a stream that had no current.
00:32:19:21 - 00:32:24:06
Dr. John Mayer
So it seems like she was killed in one place and ended up in another place.
00:32:24:08 - 00:32:24:29
Stacey
Yep.
00:32:25:02 - 00:32:48:21
Dr. John Mayer
A dead person doesn't do that. And she was shot in the head, you know, so you she wasn't like, shot in the shoulder and can stumble away. She was shot in the head. And yet where she was killed was 100 yards away from where she was found. Very suspicious. So I have a supposition, Dory, that she was forced to say those things and then make that call.
00:32:48:24 - 00:33:13:23
Dori
And was so calm about it. And even if somebody. But that's it. Like I tried to like put myself in like her position. Right. Like if somebody I think she may have resolved like she's like, the Lord has got me. God is God has got me. You know what? This has been a terrible time in my life. Somebody is maybe with a gun right there.
00:33:13:23 - 00:33:23:14
Dori
She's probably like, yeah, I'm just going to do it. And that's so calm about it, because she knows that the next world for her is going to be a better and.
00:33:23:15 - 00:33:28:00
Dr. John Mayer
Totally in sync story in this episode, because that's exactly right. That's going to be.
00:33:28:02 - 00:33:29:14
Stacey
I never even thought of that.
00:33:29:17 - 00:33:37:17
Dr. John Mayer
I think she was resigned to her fate. She was forced to say that and boom, you know,
00:33:37:20 - 00:33:48:05
Dori
Yeah, maybe. Right. Why did she gone to war and she had a gun. Maybe they made her put a gun to her head. Yeah. So many different.
00:33:48:05 - 00:34:31:21
Dr. John Mayer
Scenarios. Right. And there was no talk about, fingerprints on the gun. You know, there was no investigation there. But, again, our podcast is not about investigating crimes. It's about what's behind them. So I think our, our theories here are are solid and good and, you know, we can go, but can we get into the background of this JP a little bit because I'm chomping at the bit because not only am I strong in this case about, Micah in appearance, letting a 13 year old get involved in this, this crazy, whole business, but also, I'm, I'm very strong on the fact that this JP was he was built for this because
00:34:31:21 - 00:35:07:27
Dr. John Mayer
his father was about a carbon copy of who we saw in this documentary. He was accused many times of sexual inappropriateness and had to change the, the, name and the branding of his church three times because of accusations that came out and they changed locations. Initially the father's church was in Florence, South Carolina, and then they eventually moved to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina because of what was going on inappropriately in this church.
00:35:08:00 - 00:35:11:05
Dori
He was rock hard as really moved around.
00:35:11:06 - 00:35:12:21
Dr. John Mayer
Yes, yes, yes it is.
00:35:12:24 - 00:35:19:23
Stacey
You know, this this hiding behind religion stuff that people do all the time is, is just getting so fucking old.
00:35:20:00 - 00:35:30:17
Dori
It's the same story yourself. Location. We heard this when we watch these documents every. It's the end. Like you said, John from the parent angers.
00:35:30:17 - 00:35:30:24
Stacey
Me.
00:35:30:24 - 00:35:35:23
Dori
To the child like it's the same cycle. Same.
00:35:35:26 - 00:35:55:21
Dr. John Mayer
And can I, can I also interrupt and give an important fact when we, you know, we're all angry at the fact that these, scamming churches can develop. This one had an interesting twist we haven't heard before. Do you remember that that pastor that was intervening, a woman that was all dressed in black? I forget her name.
00:35:55:21 - 00:35:56:19
Dori
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:56:23 - 00:35:58:22
Stacey
You know, gray hair.
00:35:58:24 - 00:35:59:28
Dori
Dark hair, right.
00:35:59:28 - 00:36:01:18
Stacey
Short black hair.
00:36:01:21 - 00:36:06:20
Dr. John Mayer
She wanted to report GAAP to his elders of the church.
00:36:06:20 - 00:36:07:11
Stacey
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:07:11 - 00:36:08:13
Dr. John Mayer
And what did she find.
00:36:08:13 - 00:36:10:13
Dori
Out, pastor Pam Muzi.
00:36:10:18 - 00:36:12:10
Dr. John Mayer
That's it.
00:36:12:13 - 00:36:13:19
Stacey
What did she find out?
00:36:13:21 - 00:36:44:06
Dr. John Mayer
What did she find out? He had no elders, so he had no, like, board of directors or in these these church communities, they call them elders. Like, they're supposed to be smart people. And, she said he has no governing body, so there is no stopping this guy. So there goes to the point, if I can see this real quick because I don't want to make a big deal about this, Stacy and I think I are most upset about.
00:36:44:09 - 00:36:54:01
Dr. John Mayer
These churches are totally unregulated. You know, anybody can. We've said this in other episodes. Anybody week we could start a church and the congregation think about pot candy.
00:36:54:04 - 00:37:24:12
Dori
It would be like like John and me, like we're the elders. So like Stacy, like, who am I to give who? I'm not a professional of anything. I just grew up in this religion and I'm able to be the one to govern over. Yeah, the two of you like it makes zero sense. And this is the way that all not all a lot of them are.
00:37:24:13 - 00:37:24:19
Dori
Yeah.
00:37:24:25 - 00:37:32:23
Dr. John Mayer
I wish we could figure it out. And I don't have an answer, but there needs to be some rules about how you create a church.
00:37:32:23 - 00:37:52:21
Stacey
And tax exempt. All these places that are sexually assaulting children are tax exempt, and they get out of everything, and they use religion and they use their elders and they use pastors, and they use therapists that are religious therapists instead of real accredited therapists like Doctor John.
00:37:52:28 - 00:37:54:06
Dori
E mayor.
00:37:54:09 - 00:37:55:15
Dori
Google.
00:37:55:17 - 00:37:58:26
Stacey
Not to be confused with John Mayer, the singer.
00:37:58:28 - 00:38:01:07
Dr. John Mayer
Or be confused, I don't care.
00:38:01:09 - 00:38:04:02
Stacey
Or confuse them. They're both very handsome.
00:38:04:05 - 00:38:26:03
Dr. John Mayer
Oh. Thank you. Oh, I agree, I totally agree. But again, getting back to the point that this father was, a role model for this JP he was corrupt. He was sexually depraved. He's serving time for a crime, and I don't want to look it up on my notes in view of time, but, everything that JP was.
00:38:26:03 - 00:38:58:29
Dr. John Mayer
So how does this develop? You know, how does this monster JP develop by. Absolutely looking at his dad and going, wow, this works. And I have to say, and I prepared this, this to say to you, I had, any number of patients that, in my practice that followed this kind of same pattern where you have a sexually depraved father, and I've had patients where, a father brought in kids.
00:38:58:29 - 00:39:07:08
Dr. John Mayer
I mean, at nine and ten years old into sexual situations with, prostitutes. And, you know, we.
00:39:07:08 - 00:39:38:02
Dori
Saw them with the one cold with the with the parents having sex in front of the children, show the children how to have sex when they were kids. Yeah, like under ten. Or watching their parents have sex with other people. It's this, these people under, like Stacy and I have said over and over again, under the guise of the Lord, follow the money, making their own rules.
00:39:38:04 - 00:39:53:00
Dori
It is apps. And then a lot of them being like, oh, pedophilia, don't like that's what they had on the about pedophiles. But they are the ones doing it in their church.
00:39:53:00 - 00:39:54:19
Dr. John Mayer
Well, that's that's money.
00:39:54:27 - 00:39:57:15
Stacey
And covers money. Absolutely.
00:39:57:17 - 00:40:18:16
Dr. John Mayer
Cover up. And who's in charge? Men. And it's all about, you know, make sure you you you're taking care of your man. You know the the sermons that JP was giving out seemed like constantly he's talking about give sex to your man and you know. Yeah. You know, you have two men are in charge. Men, men, men.
00:40:18:16 - 00:40:48:12
Stacey
Men, men. All about him. I know I've said that already, but like, none of it was really for anyone else. He was pacing and sweating and talking about this stuff. That's inappropriate. And why are we so obsessed with sex at church? I have never met more people obsessed with trans homosexuality. Cock and sex and fucking than all of these people out there who are homophobic, secretly gay, and always doing the thing.
00:40:48:12 - 00:40:53:18
Stacey
And as they say, they hate. I'm sick of hypocrisy. I'm like, I'm on my soapbox right now. I'm getting down.
00:40:53:20 - 00:40:57:12
Dr. John Mayer
I'm sorry. In is that preaching? Is that talking about.
00:40:57:13 - 00:40:58:03
Dori
Know what.
00:40:58:04 - 00:41:01:02
Dr. John Mayer
The Scripture you're talking about sex.
00:41:01:05 - 00:41:03:25
Stacey
My rabbis never talked about sex.
00:41:03:27 - 00:41:04:18
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah.
00:41:04:21 - 00:41:05:12
Stacey
They talk about.
00:41:05:12 - 00:41:35:09
Dori
I yeah, I do watch a lot of like, reality too. Like those Mormon wives. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of them on drugs also swingers having, you know, they, they start they, they get married to have sex. So they get married at 17, 1890. Yet to just that is the culture of a lot. Listen, we've talked about different types of religions.
00:41:35:09 - 00:41:51:04
Dori
I know I don't, you know, necessarily think we can group them all together, but I am a person that says religion no matter what religion, this organized religion is not for me. That is when I.
00:41:51:06 - 00:42:21:01
Dr. John Mayer
You know again story we are on such as a same wavelength. One of the things that I that happened to pop into my email. I'm a New York Times subscriber and there was a commentary by, a columnist, Jessica Gross, that talked about our episode here today and talked about the pastor's wife. And one statistic that she gave, which you just totally nailed, was that.
00:42:21:01 - 00:42:46:12
Dr. John Mayer
And I'm and I'm going to look at my notes here, that there's been an incredible decline of women participating in organized religion. There's been a 40% decrease of, Wow, being affiliated with organized religion, since 2013. And these are women ages 13.
00:42:46:15 - 00:42:47:09
Dori
Okay.
00:42:47:12 - 00:43:07:27
Dr. John Mayer
This between women between the ages of 18 and 29. So I think there's some good news in that. So what you just mentioned. Yeah, one of the quote, I want to read you this quote from this article, this this opinion piece in The New York Times. Again, Jessica Gross, audience.
00:43:07:29 - 00:43:36:16
Dr. John Mayer
Jessica Gross conclusion to this whole documentary was, if only Mike had a whole community of people telling her that she never had to subordinate herself to a man, none of this would have happened. Gets back to everything we're saying about parents. I know her siblings were very strong, but you know their siblings, they don't have enough as much power as parents or.
00:43:36:18 - 00:44:06:17
Dori
And they may not have know like sometimes you don't know the extent of things until you know the extent of things. Right. And then it's so hard to pull them out of it. Once you know, you start getting the inkling from somebody, it's hard to stop. Like, John, you probably know this the best. Like when people are on drugs, it's like once they like, you may not realize how, how deep they've gone until they've gone that deep and then it's almost impossible to get them out of it.
00:44:06:17 - 00:44:22:28
Dori
Right? Just like this. Like maybe they just like you said. But there should have had buried better parents on top of this. Yeah, but maybe they just didn't know. They thought, oh, it's church. It's not like she's going out and you know, but let me.
00:44:22:28 - 00:44:41:21
Dr. John Mayer
Say something to let me say something that story, because again and again, an email that popped up me from a reputable source again, audience, look behind if you're going to join something like Rock Head Church or Rock Hard Church or whatever, it's.
00:44:41:21 - 00:44:43:07
Dori
Called the Rock.
00:44:43:08 - 00:45:03:16
Dr. John Mayer
I know, I know, I'm being trying to be funny, but it's not coming across. Look, look it up. Research it. Because here's some facts. When JP was 19 years old, he raped a 15 year old girl and was convicted.
00:45:03:18 - 00:45:05:10
Dori
Oh, really? Really.
00:45:05:11 - 00:45:32:15
Dr. John Mayer
He was also convicted of assault and battery because, he in 1998, because he hit a woman with his truck and drove with the woman 100 yards with her on the hood of his car, and then blamed the woman for running into his truck, and he pleaded guilty. This crime. Now, all of this was before Micah joined the church.
00:45:32:15 - 00:45:36:19
Dr. John Mayer
So is anybody looking and saying, who is this pastor?
00:45:36:26 - 00:45:37:29
Stacey
Well, he googled it.
00:45:38:00 - 00:45:45:21
Dr. John Mayer
My dear 13 year old Micah, you're getting involved in this organization. Who is this guy? That's what a parent should do.
00:45:45:23 - 00:46:27:06
Stacey
There's not a lot of regulation. It's just I don't know. And I'm going to say one more thing on this topic in week. This could be our wrap up. Yeah because I see yeah 2048. So one more minute and then we'll be done. So I think that the root of all of this, all of all of these religious issues, and when I say that, I mean these people that are pastoring and attending and, and following these following rules and Bible, scripture and all this stuff, I think it comes down to, when they're young, they're not getting a proper education in general.
00:46:27:09 - 00:46:57:25
Stacey
They're not being parented, and they're also being fed a lot of religious rules and, and things that make that. And they don't get any sex education. And I really think that that and, you know, double double that with neglect or mental illness or personality disorder, these things develop. I'm not a doctor. I know you are, but I feel like every time I see this with the IBP, the Mormonism, the Scientology, all these things are Orthodox Judaism.
00:46:57:27 - 00:47:21:12
Stacey
They're in these situations. And then they come out and they are like rabid people running around trying to find people to do, you know what I'm saying? It's like they don't have any. There's no self control. There's no exactly self awareness. There's no, you know, and that comes from really bad parenting and upbringing and just having kids and not giving them any education.
00:47:21:12 - 00:47:24:03
Stacey
And that's just my belief. And I don't know them. Right.
00:47:24:07 - 00:47:26:06
Dr. John Mayer
Not being in their life you know that.
00:47:26:10 - 00:47:26:29
Stacey
No you're right.
00:47:26:29 - 00:47:33:22
Dori
Like having kids, having the kids just to repopulate the world. Yeah. That it or.
00:47:33:22 - 00:47:34:00
Stacey
By.
00:47:34:00 - 00:47:35:06
Dr. John Mayer
Accident or by.
00:47:35:08 - 00:47:51:16
Dori
Accident, right. Or by accident. But it truly is like, just like this is what the Lord says is to just have children. It it's a we will never get out of this cycle. I really I think it's gotten worse and worse and way worse.
00:47:51:16 - 00:47:52:14
Stacey
Christian. Now, can I say.
00:47:52:14 - 00:48:09:29
Dr. John Mayer
One last thing? Because Dori, I know you have to go. So I'm trying to and I want to fit this in. You know, we coined the term early in our podcast series Psychological Murder. I'm going to coined a new term. This was psychological slavery. You know, this cheap.
00:48:09:29 - 00:48:11:14
Stacey
Yeah. She was like this.
00:48:11:14 - 00:48:16:00
Dr. John Mayer
JP made me become a psychological slave to.
00:48:16:00 - 00:48:35:05
Stacey
Him. That's interesting. And that's perfect. It is perfect. And I'm you know, I'm going to say this and wrapping it up, I'm sorry to that family. And I'm sorry for Micah that she doesn't get to be alive anymore because she deserves to be alive. And it sucks that she's not beautiful soul. Yeah, I miss her. I didn't even know her.
00:48:35:05 - 00:48:38:29
Stacey
And I miss her. I liked watching her. I just this is so beautiful.
00:48:39:01 - 00:48:43:22
Dr. John Mayer
So this is a sad, sad story. Yeah. Anyway, should we end?
00:48:43:25 - 00:48:51:15
Stacey
Yeah. I love you guys. Podcast. Candy? We're done.
00:48:51:17 - 00:49:04:09
Unknown
I.
00:49:04:11 - 00:49:06:10
Unknown
Really?