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Testing your ideas against reality can be challenging. Not everything will go as planned. It’s about keeping an open mind, having a clear hypothesis and running multiple tests to see if you have enough directional evidence to keep going.
This is the How I Tested That Podcast, where David J Bland connects with entrepreneurs and innovators who had the courage to test their ideas with real people, in the market, with sometimes surprising results.
Join us as we explore the ups and downs of experimentation… together.
David J Bland (0:0.976)
Welcome to the podcast, Dylan.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (0:1.410)
to the podcast Dylan. Thank you for having me David. I'm excited to have you here. You have such a fascinating background in e-commerce and specifically crowdfunding and you've tested so many things over the years. Before we jump in, could you give a little bit of your background to our audience? Sure sure. What you've done and what kind of led you to where you are today? Sure sure. I guess I have a background that is
David J Bland (0:5.626)
I'm excited to have you here. have such a fascinating background in e-commerce and specifically crowdfunding and you've tested so many things over the years. But before we jump in, could you give a little bit of your background to our audience on what you've done and what kind of led you to where you are today?
Kelvin Dylan Lam (0:30.030)
not very interesting because I have done all the boring stuff as an entrepreneur like I didn't like get a lot of like funding rounds or I didn't do a lot of like like interesting promotion like all I do is like we boost up everything from scratch try to just grind our ass to start from eBay okay that's where I started I started to import stuff back in the days I was in uni I was covering
Economic class and then I was I only have like 60 kg of oh no 50 52 kg of luggage I can bring to UK So I just because I was studying right all things I have is already in the UK So when I back to I back to Hong Kong, which is where I'm from I I just literally bought the cheap gadget like cables like microphones like
On-the-go adapters for phones like and then put in the luggage and then bring it to UK and then start selling on in the in eBay, right? boring as heck right and then like Things just started scaling. It's just like we didn't realize that back in days was around 2013 that was the time that e-commerce is booming, right? There is no Amazon Amazon FBA just got started during that day that time
And then we sell pretty well on eBay. Like we were doing around like hundreds unit in eBay. And then like I was packing stuff every single day, set a tape and then put in the letter and then just ship it to people writing all the things. And I bought my first kind of printer to print the label instead of writing because my writing doesn't really look good. And then things just get like...
hit it, started to talk to manufacturers from China and then we actually started to get pilot boxes to my student recommendation back in the days and then things scale so fast and then we send pilot to my student recommendation. The reception started to tell me
Kelvin Dylan Lam (2:54.146)
you shouldn't be doing that because I'm blocking the hallway. When the pilot comes to the accommodation, like I literally block the reception, block the hallway, and I don't live on the first floor, I live on the third floor. So I have to take the lift, get to the third floor, drag it to the end of the hallway, and that's the idea. But when the pilot come, I still have to send it to eBay and Amazon.
But selling to eBay and Amazon, I have to apply the labels. I have to also apply the labels and also the boxes label as well, the product label as well. And so I was laying down the hallway from far end to the end to end, just like you line up and then I was bowing and then walking, one label, two labels, three labels, 100 labels, 200 labels at a time. So that's my story.
I do everything and I just pack it all up once I label-pack it all put it in a box and then whenever the customer comes Whenever the UPS comes, I will just send them the boxes and boxes so that process gonna be like three weeks or two weeks until the UPS come over to collect the boxes so I got no choice when my Accommodation is full of product ready then I have to put outside of the hallway. There's a time that someone stole my
product as well. The whole box is gone overnight. So that happened when you're living in a sealed accommodation. So yeah, so from eBay to Amazon and then scale to e-commerce. So you can see that there is different people. They scale from job shipping where you don't have to even touch the product. But I don't scale in that way. I scale from ordering product and then once people bought, they'll get a bigger fund and then they'll order more product.
more sales and then we order more product. So that's the way I scales and then at one point I stop, I mean, I need to place order that comes with minimal order quantity, right? Because if doing 1,500, that's fine, but then I want to get a cheaper price, like 2,000, so I can get an even cheaper price. And so I started to help a Chinese seller to run advertising on Amazon, on Facebook, on eBay.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (5:17.506)
So just like a form of like service fee so I can even bootstrap more to make the brand bigger So today's my brain is like seven figures brand already It was bootstrapped from scratch from helping from like bootstrapping from order after order plus the Service fee that I was like the only rank that I started to now that we are also a econ brand and also a service brand in the same time
David J Bland (5:43.738)
Wow, that's amazing. I love how scrappy you were and all the things you've learned. I'm wondering two things. One, how many hours a day did you spend doing this? And two, at what point did you start to automate? Because you mentioned you got a label maker or printer. And when did it become so all consuming that you felt as if you had enough funds to start buying things and making it more scalable?
Kelvin Dylan Lam (5:45.622)
I love how scrappy you were and all the things you've learned. I'm wondering two things. One, how many hours a day did you spend doing this? And two, at what point did you start to automate? Because you mentioned you got a label maker or printer. And when did it become so all consuming that you felt as if you had enough funds to buying things and making it more scalable? Yeah, back in the days, as a student, our job is not to study.
is to have fun, right? So, of course, my final year assignment is actually just a mere pass. I pass it, that's fine. I'm not like a first-honor student, second-honor student, but I pass it, that's fine. I mean, that's all I need. But then I could have done better if I didn't have this business, be fair, because I spent too much time to really learn things. There's courses.
There's no courses we are really trying to test, try and test, try and error about what went wrong, what went south, and then we'll just improvise after we understand the process and systems. When we started on eBay, we are pretty manually intensive. Like I am the one who are actually studying and labeling. And then I was labeling stuff. I am listening to podcasts. I'm learning from others as well.
and also learning how to run Facebook ads, et cetera. And then come the day that, right, really, people, mean, the post office in Royal Mail in the UK knows me. I'm pretty famous there because I'm always like having to kind of like shopping bag every single day with a, back in the days I'm riding a electronic unicycle, like a Segway. I ride it to there, I get off.
and I have my tube shopping bag, put it on the floor, started to print, print, print, print, print, stick the sticker and print off. And I realized, hey, that's too much for me. I have been doing that for half a year. And Amazon FBA come, I realized that's something that I can just let Amazon do it. So I started to send it to Amazon to let the Fufu warehouse handle everything, to let them do the pick and pack. So I don't have to do that, right? So that's the first kind of automation in doing my...
Kelvin Dylan Lam (8:7.724)
my e-commerce life, right? Of course, like right now there's like a lot of like automation in our company. So me as an entrepreneur, I started selling on FBA and then I started to work on the hiring VA. Right now we have around 45 VA in the company. So that's the kind of automation. And then of course, like we implement the
company system optimization where we optimize our system using Zapier. So the WooCommerce order and Amazon order are going to sync. That's another automation. And then of course right now using AI to write copy, generate video, create courses, to create SOP as well. So those are different kind of automation from start to nowadays, like every single new technology we will implement to our business to make sure that they are 100%.
optimized to just increase the efficiency of the company.
David J Bland (9:12.326)
It sounds like you learned manually and to the point where you became so overwhelmed, you had this realization of, I have to automate this in some way. this is back in 2013, right? A lot of the stuff you're talking about now didn't exist. So you didn't have a lot of options. And I imagine if you had all the tools today back then, it would have been very different, but you were very early on. And I want to unpack a little bit there because you mentioned your business model and then drop shipping.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (9:36.014)
unpack a little bit there because you mentioned your business model and then drop shipping. And I just want your take on drop shipping because I've heard very differing points of view about how people could be successful drop shipping and maybe give me your opinion on what you think of drop Yeah, sure. So drop shipping is definitely a business model. The reason why people think that drop shipping is either a scam or it's either doesn't work.
David J Bland (9:40.762)
And I just want your take on dropshipping because I've heard very differing points of view about how people could be successful dropshipping and maybe give me your opinion on what you think of dropshipping today.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (10:5.750)
is because they didn't treat dropshipping the right way because dropshipping is just a vehicle on starting a business. Amazon FBA, a vehicle to start a business, right? Starting selling on Etsy, another way, right? So when we start a business, you have different way to choose, right? Whereas dropshipping is just one of the most convenient way because you don't have to touch your product.
and then you just look for the supplier from China. But then the reason why it doesn't work for a lot of people because they think that dropshipping is easy. You can just get it from supplier, ship it to someone else, you make the profit. But it's not scalable because they didn't think about the brand kind of views if they're thinking dropshipping product one thing at a time and just make the margin from one product. It doesn't work.
you have to build a story, you have to do the copywriting, build the image, build the branding to really connect to the audience so you can build a out of it. What do you mean by build a business out of it? It's because the people is coming back. It's because you can have a community of loyal followers. And that is the two most important reasons why a lot of them is failed. They are not building a community.
and they're not trying to build a brand. And therefore, it doesn't work for them. Building a brand requires a lot of effort in terms of money, in terms of your time. And you have to do the right research, find the right audience, speak the right message, run ads on the right angles.
And therefore, a lot of them think, hey, I've done once. I've done exactly what you have said already, Kenneth. But you have done once only. In general, I guess if you haven't done it 10 times, you wouldn't be able to find the right thing, right? You might have started dropshipping, but you definitely didn't have a plan in your mind to really make it work. Because to make it work,
Kelvin Dylan Lam (12:33.888)
It's not like overnight things. It's not like one month things. You have to really know how to leverage the asset you have collected and then turn them into a lifetime buyer to increase the average order value or to increase the lifetime value. And therefore, this is what people is lacking. They are not realizing that.
It's not a business model. Job shipping is just a start of a business. It's just a method for you to start a business. This business that you are really starting is to build a brand. Otherwise, you will just eventually fail in your business adventure.
David J Bland (13:20.464)
Thank you for sharing your insights on that. I do think that sheds some light on why there's such polarizing views on drop shipping. And it almost sounds as if as you were bootstrapping your business, the skills you learned, especially from the services point of view, ended up being a business in itself. Maybe you can help us understand how are you working with these companies in China, helping them run ads and everything. It feels like you learned that along the way from bootstrapping your own.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (13:20.802)
Thank you for sharing your insights on that. I do think that sheds some light on why there's such polarizing views on drop shipping. And it almost sounds as if as you were bootstrapping your business, the skills you learned, especially from the services point of view, ended up being a business in itself. Maybe you can help us understand how are you working with these companies in China, helping them run ads and everything. It feels like you learned that along the way from bootstrapping your own.
Yeah, so the way that we help them because firstly back in the days like in China there's lack of talent because they don't really know how to localize or write a good copy back in the days. So I become the the median about
connecting the West and then the East together to help them to write a good copy, to help them test the right message, to tell them what to do the A-B testing. And so I naturally become the go-to guy when it comes to running Facebook ads or Google ads. And I was the one who actually run my Amazon ad. So Amazon ad.
Sorry, Amazon was the first kind of ad that I ran in the past. And then I went to a Facebook ad. Amazon is just like a Google ad, like search ad, display ad. Back in the days, we called it this headline ad, but right now they call it a sponsor brand. And so the whole Amazon thing is actually come from Google. And therefore, I naturally translate my skill set to Google as well. And also,
I am, I mean, back in the days, one of the things that people think that I'm good because I know how to set up the trackings. I know how to use GA4, back in days it's called universal analytic. And I know how to check everything to make sure that conversion is good. Right. And therefore, people just like, even that they come to, they go to other people, most of the agency, they wouldn't be able to set up the tracking properly. And therefore the result is not going to be as accurate as
Kelvin Dylan Lam (15:46.198)
I do. And so when I was doing a speaking gig in China, when I talk about how the tracking can potentially impact that, impact the advertising, people were just mind blown, right? Because of because of the pixel setup that I was able to make it accurate. And I think that become the one of the major thing that connecting me with the Chinese brands that
that we have there.
David J Bland (16:18.182)
So you're offering this almost connection, like you said, East and West. also, we talk a lot about experimentation. But if you can't track things properly, it's really hard to know if your tests are successful or not. It seems very obvious. But I think once you get down in the weeds of the integrations and how you track things, if that is not set up properly, we just don't know. So we can do all the different designs and all the different copy and everything. And if we don't have proper integration, we'd be
Kelvin Dylan Lam (16:18.510)
So you're offering this almost connection like you said between East and West and also if we talk a lot about experimentation, but if you can't track things properly, it's really hard to know if your tests are successful or not. It seems very obvious, but I think once you get down to the beats of the integrations and how you track things, if that is not set up properly, we just don't know. So we can do all the different designs and all the different copy and everything. And if we don't have proper integration, we...
David J Bland (16:46.896)
just shrug our shoulders and try to pick one that we liked. And I think that happens a lot. People don't have the skill set to know what actually influenced other things.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (16:47.182)
just shrug our shoulders and try to pick one that we liked. And I think that happens a lot of people don't have the skill set to know what actually influenced other things. Exactly. Yeah. So that's fascinating to me. So you bootstrapped, learned all these skills, giving talks in China, other people started coming to you for advice and help. And in that journey, I remember we were talking before the podcast about
David J Bland (16:57.946)
So that's fascinating to me. So you bootstrapped, learned all these skills, giving talks in China, other people started coming to you for advice and help. And in that journey, I remember we were talking before the podcast about Kickstarter and crowdfunding and how that ties in. And I would love to explore that a little bit with you because I think they're also similar to dropshipping. There's often...
Kelvin Dylan Lam (17:16.728)
Kickstarter and crowdfunding and how that ties in. And I would love to explore that a little bit with you because I think they're also similar to drop shipping. There's often very polarizing views on whether Kickstarter or Indiegogo or crowdfunding works. So help me understand how you stumbled into that world and how you sort of tested your way through that. Yeah. So this is a very interesting story because there's
David J Bland (17:25.764)
very polarizing views on whether Kickstarter or Indiegogo or crowdfunding works. So help me understand how you stumbled into that world and how you sort of tested your way through that.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (17:43.086)
There's about the my brand part and also the client side part as well. So back in the days, I always know Kickstarter is a way to get more fun because remember, like I was always talking about fun to grow my brand. so Kickstarter become one of my vehicle to launch my first project. I think my first project went up to 120K US dollar. So I was like, oh, wow.
It opens my mind to me as in like, I don't have to because if you remember what I said is I always boost track the I get more sales buy more product and then I have to get more sales first and buy more product right Whereas Kickstarter right now I get the money first and I buy the product so that is a different story than what I have in the past like The the the way that I get funding is no longer bootstrap. It's more of like
You create a campaign, get people to support you, and then you can start an import from China and then fulfill the order to the client. So me and myself, ran for my brand, think we ran five to six campaigns. And then I started sharing the journey to the Chinese audience. And that comes in the time where Amazon becomes too competitive because
started on Amazon back in 2013. It's easy because you can just go to the Chinese manufacturer, go to Canton Fair, and then just bring it to Amazon, snap your label on it, and that's it. We call it white label. So you just get an existing cup and then put your brand name and then that's your brand. Everyone can create a brand. Easy.
become at a point it becomes like when my customer, if my customer get bought my brand and if his friend gonna ask him, oh, where did you buy the brand? Where did you buy this cup? He's not gonna say it's coming from ABC brand. He's gonna say, I got it from Amazon because it's a Amazon brand, right? So the white label eventually is not generating asset. You are
Kelvin Dylan Lam (20:10.860)
working for Amazon and therefore you got no brand presence. Plus at the time, Amazon is too competitive. Even right now, Amazon is too competitive because everyone is selling the same thing. So we as an Amazon seller, we are forced to create new product to attract customer either
new label, either like a new color, new pattern, bundling, or new function, or new utility on the product itself. And therefore, it's a new product. And therefore, we can put it on Kickstarter. And so everyone on Amazon is going to the same path. Too competitive, very high cost per click.
very high CP, uh, tacos, like return, uh, total advertising cost of sales. Right. I mean, that, that makes them think, no, that is not the way to build a brand. They need to build a long-term asset. And that's how we go to Kickstarter because Kickstarter offer you the community. When you launch product on Kickstarter, you build the community, you build your royal follower and, uh, you get the fun as well.
And then you build a true brand as a result. They are gonna be a Way better option on Amazon because on Amazon you don't get the funding you have to pay the funding by yourself first and then you bootstrap it and then you buy the buy it again from Manufacture again, and then you bootstrap it in that way, right? So you don't get the funding kind of thing from the backers you
In Amazon, can build a brand like the community that they offer you and launching on Kickstarter, you get all the assets that you have created. Imagine when we start selling on Amazon, we only sell on Amazon. You don't have to build the video. You don't have to build a UGC. You don't have to build the content or anything because you can just upload a product, write the description and that's your listing.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (22:35.404)
Okay, whereas Kickstarter offered you all the things after you finish your campaign. And therefore you can snowball down with the momentum running the Facebook ad and Google ad in the long run to attract customer. So you are essentially diversifying your risk on not just staying on Amazon. So because it's really risky to just stay on Amazon, right? If you get suspended, remember like back in the day,
or your money is invest back into inventory. If you get suspended because of a competitor's attack, a high checker trying to falsely claim that you are infringing their patent, right? Then your fund is gonna hold up by Amazon. And then at the end of the day, you have no money to pay your employee, you have no money to pay your supplier and your family living hood.
might be in danger as well because you're relying on the fund that Amazon reimbursed you. And therefore, Kickstarter became a very good vehicle to diversify the risk gap you are involved in. And that's why everyone just like, OK, let's do it. I mean, if I'm getting that much of benefit, let's do that because I want to be a true brand that not 100 % going to rely on Amazon.
they can do 40 % Amazon and 60 % outside of Amazon. So we don't have to always play by the rule by Amazon. If someday that Amazon decided to suspend us, I can still have the other revenue from other places that is not controlled by a platform, it's controlled by me. So that's the story. Thank you for sharing that. think that resonates with me for risk reduction.
David J Bland (24:24.230)
Thank you for sharing that. think that resonates with me with risk reduction. If you only have one channel and that channel shuts down or goes away, you don't have any other channels, you're in trouble. I also like that you mentioned the fundamental difference between getting the funding first and then creating and shipping the product versus trying to create and ship product and get enough funding to buy more product. That's a very, very different strategy.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (24:31.662)
channel shuts down or goes away. You don't have any other channels, you're in trouble. I also like that you mentioned the fundamental difference between getting the funding first and then creating and shipping the product versus trying to create your product and getting the funding to buy more product. That's a very, very different strategy. And one thing that you mentioned that I think people overlook still with Kickstarter is that community building. It's not just launching a Kickstarter.
David J Bland (24:51.150)
One thing that you mentioned that I think people overlook still with Kickstarter is that community building. It's not just launching a Kickstarter and watching money roll in and then shipping, right? It's about building and curating that community, having perks, having things that will make it feel, make them feel special, you know? And it's your, almost like you're curating your early adopters.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (25:1.506)
watching money roll in and shipping, right? It's about building and curating that community, having perks, having things that will make it feel, make them feel special, you know? And it's your, almost like you're curating your early adopters and you're addressing your risk with desirability. Do people want it? You're addressing some of the risk of viability because they are giving you money for it.
David J Bland (25:20.268)
And you're addressing your risk with desirability. Do people want it? You're addressing some of the risk of viability because they are giving you money for it. You still have to figure out the feasibility backstage of whether you can build the product or whether you heck in a white label or whatever it is you were doing to create the product. And you have to work through your backstage costs. But if you think about just simply de-risking something new, you're almost
Kelvin Dylan Lam (25:31.170)
You still have to figure out the feasibility backstage of whether you can build the product or whether you can white label or whatever it is you were doing to create the product. And you have to work through your backstage costs. But if you think about just simply de-risking something new, you're almost crazy not to try Kickstarter if you're in e-commerce because there's so many tools available to you and you can pay down your risk versus trying to build and ship product and hope it sells.
David J Bland (25:48.614)
crazy not to try Kickstarter if you're in e-commerce because there's so many tools available to you and you can pay down your risk versus trying to build and ship product and hope it sells. And I think the community aspect, it constantly gets overlooked. And I like that you touched on that because even though they may not be the mass market, they are those early adopters where you can start to learn from and take that learning and apply to other markets as well.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (25:59.062)
And I think the community aspect constantly gets overlooked. And I like that you touched on that because even though they may not be the mass market, there are those early adopters where you can start to learn from and take that learning and apply to other markets as well. Exactly. That summed it up so well. Thank you, David.
David J Bland (26:19.780)
Yeah, I love some of my corporate clients because I coach corporations. They even go to Kickstarter or more Indiegogo than Kickstarter now because Kickstarter has some rules about that. But Indiegogo, I've seen big corporate brands launch things. It's not like they need the money. I mean, they have all the money in the world. It's not it's not that they need funding from customers. They want to know, does anybody care? Is there a market? So they'll test things and products, especially e-commerce on Indiegogo.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (26:20.204)
Yeah, I love some of my corporate clients because I coach corporations, they even go to Kickstarter or more Indiegogo than Kickstarter now because Kickstarter has some rules about that. But Indiegogo, I've seen big corporate brands launch things. It's not like they need the money. I mean, they have all the money in the world. It's not it's not that they need funding from customers. They want to know does anybody care because they're a market. So they'll test things and products, especially e-commerce on Indiegogo.
David J Bland (26:48.398)
and see if there's traction. And then they'll either do it under a labs brand or an off brand or just really lightly branded. They're not they're not leading with their giant corporate brand. And if it works, they bring it on brand. And if it doesn't, they shut it down and nobody cares because there's no brand damage at all because it was an Indiegogo thing. So you look at like Delta Faucets did one where they have this little renter. You can it's almost like a bartender.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (26:48.790)
and see there's traction and then the way they're doing under a labs brand or an off brand or just really lightly branded, not they're not leading with their giant corporate brand. And if it works, they bring it on brand. And if it doesn't, they shut it down and nobody cares because there's no brand damage at all because it was a IndyCover thing. So you look at like Delta faucets did one where they have this little renter. can it's almost like a bartender.
David J Bland (27:15.430)
tool where you put the glass and it shoots water up into your glass and rinses it all out. And so they did it under a labs brand called First Wave on Indiegogo. People loved it. Now you can find it on the Delta website under the Delta brand, you know.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (27:17.748)
Oh, yeah, that's a very good idea. I didn't know that that's from Indiegogo. Like the idea is coming from Indiegogo. Wow. Okay. I was like, I was like amazed. I went and look at that thing. Come the BA coming from the bottom.
David J Bland (27:34.054)
It is, yeah, and they don't talk about it.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (27:44.534)
Like it's mind blowing when it comes to come out back in the days. Yeah, so it's not just startups anymore, although I don't think it's as common with the companies or big companies using crowdfunding as well. And again, they don't need the money. They just try to touch the path because they a lot of money on something that flops in the market.
David J Bland (27:49.082)
Yeah, so it's not just startups anymore, although I don't think it's as common with big companies. are big companies using the crowdfunding as well. And again, they don't need the money. They're just trying to test demand because they don't want to spend a lot of money on something that flops in the market. What gets you excited now? You've learned so much over the years about e-commerce and how to build a brand and how to diversify your channels and...
Kelvin Dylan Lam (28:8.590)
What gets you excited now? You've learned so much over the years about e-commerce and how to build a brand and how to diversify your channels. Where do you see all this going with AI and everything? What gets you excited over the next six to 12 months? Yeah. What excites me right now is AI video use the equation because that really is safe course.
David J Bland (28:17.456)
Where do you see all this going with AI and everything? What gets you excited over the next, you know, six to 12 months?
Kelvin Dylan Lam (28:37.358)
Back in the days when we are trying to work with the influencer, we have to scout it, we have to look for it and then do the list of lead, look and then do a hyper-personalized outreach. And then they will quote you at 2000 pounds, 3000 pounds or US dollar. And then like that's ridiculous cost, right? It's so expensive. And then the result might not be promising as well. But AI, it's just...
getting crazy, you could just use AI audios, AI avatars, and then you could have just those people to talk about all the benefit and feature and story about your product. That's the production cost, the video production cost, not in half, but in more than half, like two-thirds. Because imagine waiting for the people that they call the influencer to do that with you, right? And because most of the influencer,
they don't really generate cells. The only big inferences, they only generate cells. So if you're looking for the content from the inferences, you might as well just use AI. Because they do the same function, whereas they don't generate cells, but then they generate content. So AI did all those things for you. And so that excites me, because right now, my video production, I'm able to test more. Test more hooks, test more angles.
I don't have to be limited by what is the team influencer is saying. And if I'm testing different audience, if I'm selling a cup, I can have a hope that it's targeting to office workers, work from home mom, maybe office directors. So because all the message to director and workers, they're going to be different. Back in the days, you are just relying on the influencer to talk about that to a specific audience.
the multiplier is going to be bigger if we want to test a much more wider audience in the future. So that's one of the AI things that we're doing. And then AI things is AI blocking. So if we want to do the blocking, not for the sake of like, say SEO, but we want to do blocking for a specific knowledge or places, right? Of course, it doesn't have to be too technical.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (31:4.524)
We have a brand that we do AI blocking for traveling. Travel, like the AI knows about all the facts already. And so if you use those to talk about a specific location and then give them a keyword, ask them to refine it, and then come up with all the facts, top five facts and top culture and history, and that will become your blog that will rank on Google. Of course, AI cannot do how to run ad on Facebook or Amazon BBC.
because they are too technical. They will not be able to come up with the jargon or the actual method, right? So, but an air blocking in general for just a normal brand, that is actually a very effective way to train up more content because what we do is we go on to make.com. We ask them to create the content and then distribute across to all the platform and even try to create a video and distribute into X or maybe Facebook.
or maybe YouTube, right, and on our blog as well automatically. So that is something that we don't abuse it, but we use it strategically.
David J Bland (32:19.662)
Yeah, it sounds like it lets you test faster with more segments at a cheaper cost, which is, yeah, obviously exciting because we talk about value propositions and it sounds as if you can go after these sub segments with very specific video created content conveying a value prop in the words that they understand and you can test and see what resonates things that
Kelvin Dylan Lam (32:20.140)
Yeah, sounds like it lets you test faster with more segments at a cheaper cost. Yeah, which is, uh, yeah, obviously exciting because exactly about value propositions. And it sounds as if you can go after these sub segments with very specific video created content conveying a value prop in the words that they understand and you can test and see what resonates things that
David J Bland (32:49.326)
work, you can amplify if you want things that don't work, you can shut down and you're not necessarily waiting for an agency or somebody to get back to you on the creation of all that and you're not referencing or relying on an influencer who maybe has just one target. So let's say you go to Instagram and it's some sort of makeup influencer. They're going to have a very specific target versus Twitch doing video games and you know, you're trying to
Kelvin Dylan Lam (32:49.784)
work, you can amplify if you want things that don't work, you can shut down and you're not necessarily waiting for an agency or something to get back to you on the creation of all that and you're not referencing or relying on an influencer who maybe has just one target. So let's say you go to Instagram and some sort of makeup influencer, they're gonna have a very specific target versus
doing video games and you know, you're trying to sell video game apparel or something. It feels as if you can just close that learning loop and learn so much faster leveraging AI. one thing I'm doing as well with AI, I just didn't realize, I didn't know that, I didn't mention about that. We are building a product right now. It's actually a retractable cable that
David J Bland (33:17.936)
to sell video game apparel or something, it feels as if you can just close that learning loop and learn so much faster leveraging AI and drive the cost down.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (33:45.422)
serve as like desktop organization. So that's the product we're developing right now. Today, I think what we're going to do in the future will build a brand. But then with AI, what we do is we ask AI to design the outlook of the product. We draw the base, because I have a 3D printer.
from BambooLab. So I just print out, but I just print the fundamental one, like just a square box for the sizing and then put the retractable cable inside to test the function. But with AI, my box is no longer just a box. I was able to go onto Microspace to find a very nice images, a 3D model, and I can just put that 3D model into the box.
So that is one way that I can really quickly test out a lot of different shape for my boxes about that retractable cable. So I have three different scenario. One is using it over the table, under the table, and then next to the bed. So we can just retract it and then just bounce back. And then that is one of the product we're creating. And with AI,
We don't have to use too much effort to do the drawing because all the detailing is done by AI. So that's one of the rapid prototyping that we are doing right now for our brand. Isn't that interesting?
David J Bland (35:29.764)
Wow. So not just copy and content, but literally product design as well. That's exciting. I want to thank you so much. We've covered everything from how you bootstrapped your own eBay business and, and learn how to brand things, automate things to Amazon, to Kickstarter, to using AI for content and branding and even product design. If people listen to this and they want to reach out to you or they need your help.
Kelvin Dylan Lam (35:44.526)
your own eBay business and learn how to brand things and automate things to Amazon, to Kickstarter, to using AI for content and branding and even product design. If people listen to this and they want to reach out to you or they need your help, what's the best way for them to get ahold of you? Just go to omarank.com or you can reach me in LinkedIn as a digital dealer. In omarank.com, offer
David J Bland (35:58.714)
What's the best way for them to get hold of you?
Kelvin Dylan Lam (36:15.286)
free courses because we believe anyone should be able to start a business. We don't help small business because I believe small business requires a lot of effort to get started because if you haven't started a business, you can just come to our website, claim the free courses on how to start on Amazon or how to start on job shipping or Kickstarter.
They're all free, right? Because we believe that if you can success, then we can have the success in the future as well. So yeah, just feel free to get it from our website. That's amazing. So we'll make sure to include those links on the detail page as well. Thank you so much, for hanging out with us. I was fascinated by your story. And I'm really excited to see where all this AI stuff takes you as well. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you, Dave.
David J Bland (36:54.566)
That's amazing. So we'll make sure to include those links on the detail page as well. Thank you so much, Dylan, for hanging out with us. I fascinated by your story. And I'm really excited to see where all this AI stuff takes you as well. Thanks so much for joining us.