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We need a new definition of success—one that harmonizes meaning and money.
Imagine diving into your workday with renewed energy, leaving behind the exhaustion or dread of a monotonous grind.
Traditional beliefs about success and the root cause of burnout are the same:
Prove yourself.
Work harder.
Take care of the business, and it will take care of you.
We’re recycling the mindset and practices that keep us stuck. Our souls need a jumpstart into The Age of Humanity.
Tune in for a new way of working that honors our nervous system and the bottom line, using knowledge of the brain, the Bible, and business. We’ll discuss timeless truths that amplify growth, ignite change, and reshape the world of work. No corporate speak or business BS. Let’s get to the heart of a rewarding career and profitable growth.
We speak human about business.
What’s in it for You?
Value, Relevance, and Impact (VRI): No, it's not a new tech gadget—it's your ticket to making your work genuinely matter to you and your company.
Human-Centric Insights: We prioritize people over profits without sacrificing the bottom line. Think less "cog in the machine" and more "humans helping humans."
I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hesson, your thrive guide leading you into the new Age of Humanity. I’ve navigated the highs and lows of business and life, from achieving over $40 million in sales, teaching thousands of people around the world about leadership, trust, execution, and productivity to facing burnout, divorce, raising a couple of great humans (one with ADHD), and navigating the uncertainty of starting a business.
I’m committed to igniting change in the world by jumpstarting business into profitable growth with the timeless truths of our humanity.
Sound crazy? It’s only crazy until it works.
Hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and leave a review to help other listeners discover our show.
Want insight and advice on your real career and business challenges? Connect with me on social media or email me at rebecca@wethrive.live. Your story could spark our next conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:00]:
I'm not coming down I never knocked it on the ground I'm not coming down I wanna go higher, higher, higher, Higher than that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:10]:
Welcome back to the Business is Human podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, and we're here to bring you episodes that blend meaningful work with profitable success. Here to steward what I call the age of humanity. I believe if we transform the way we work, we can transform the way that we live. As always, my friendly request. If you like what you hear, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episode and leave a review to tell the other humans that they might like it too. Always looking to help you and connect with others. All right, let's get into it, shall we? Hey.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:43]:
Hey.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:43]:
Welcome back to Business Is Human, where we dig into the stuff that really matters. How we work, lead, and live in a way that actually works for humans. Oh, y'all. I am in the midst of the final days of preparation before our big annual event. Stand tall in your story. And whoo. I tell you, this is a tax on my nervous system, but I know how to handle it. I know how to work with it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:11]:
But it definitely takes great intention. But I will say this is my sixth year for this event, and. And because over the last six years, largely because of this show and the people that I've interviewed and the people that I've worked with, I have learned so much over the last six years about how to prepare for this kind of spike in my cortisol, spike in my activities and calendar, and it's making a huge difference. So let that inspire you to dig into a little bit more of the Nervous System episodes and a little bit of your own research, because that will pay dividends, y'all. And if you haven't gotten your ticket yet, hopefully you still can at the time of this recording. There are tickets left, but who knows? It can be sold out. But if you go to standtallinyourstory.com you can watch the stories from previous years and hopefully still grab you a ticket. All right, let's get into it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:13]:
Today's episode is one of those conversations that makes you stop, nod your head, and say, yeah, finally, someone is talking about this. My guest today is Emma Tekstra, and we're diving into a topic that has been wildly overdue for a shakeup. I think that how we think about benefits, wellbeing, and what it actually means to be a healthy human in today's workforce needs a shakeup. So, listen, we have been sold this idea that a good job is One that has good pay and good benefits. But what if the benefits that we've all been chasing. Well, actually I don't anymore. Ask me about that later. Aren't actually, they're not actually making us healthier.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:01]:
What if the way that we've structured work is actually keeping people sick and exhausted and stuck and on this hamster wheel? My guest today has spent decades in the corporate world advising companies on benefits and healthcare, and now she's flipping the script. Oh, you all know how much I love it when this happens. She's here to talk about why we need a wellness first approach to. Drumroll, please. Benefits, why the current system is broken and how companies can actually invest in the well being of their people without just putting money into insurance plans. So those aren't. I'm not saying do away with insurance. I have a lot of clients in insurance.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:46]:
But we need a better focused, better balanced approach. And so how we get into some big topics to actually flourish and thrive at work. We've got to flip the script sometimes. So the business case for investing in real wellness, not just gym discounts and step challenges. But this shift is about so much more. So let's talk about rethinking success and health and how we take care of ourselves.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:15]:
Buckle up. This is a good one. Let's get into it. Emma, welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here.
Emma Tekstra [00:04:20]:
Thank you for having me.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:22]:
It's interesting. You can get really just sitting at your desk, sitting at your laptop, doing your work and really just focused on your own thing. And then you raise your head up and you look around and you're like, oh my gosh, they're working on this same kind of thing. I am. And so is he and so is she. And that's one of the things I love so much about social media and the ability to see into the work of others. And when I saw the title of your book, How to Be a Healthy Human as the leader of Business is Human Podcast, I said, Emma, come over here, let's have a conversation. So I'm excited to chat with you about this.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:02]:
Let's just tell our leaders. Leaders, tell our listeners. We're going to talk about leaders. Tell our listeners, how did this book and this work in this life? Give us the synopsis of how did this all come to be. Because then we're going to dive into a whole rabbit hole conversation about benefits and stuff.
Emma Tekstra [00:05:22]:
But yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a bit of a saunter, but I think it's helpful backgrounds. I'm British. You might be able to tell from my lilt, but I'm a UK actuary, so an actuary is somebody who, who deals a lot of risk and data and it's really not quite as nerdy as it sounds, a little bit. And mortality. And when I was in the UK, I was dealing with corporate pension plans and all of that, but the UK weather was too cold for me, so I moved to the us. I was a couple of years in New York and most of the rest of the time in California. But I've been working in big corporate, just helping big multinationals with their pension plans, but also other employee benefits around the world fund for like 25 years. I was doing that for one of the big three global consulting firms and insurance brokerages and then a little bit more personal background.
Emma Tekstra [00:06:09]:
So about 15 years ago, my older son, who is now 20, it's actually his birthday today, when he was five, he was diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD. And up to that point, he's my oldest son. I was a busy corporate executive. I just did whatever my pediatrician told me to do up to that point. So we did all the conventional stuff the. For five years. And he was sickly, had all sorts of problems. He was on some stomach kind of drugs when he was like 6 months old.
Emma Tekstra [00:06:33]:
Lots of ear infections and all these behavioral issues. And then it was actually the school that asked me to get him evaluated and they gave me this diagnosis with a really poor prognosis and he needs to be on drugs and he probably won't leave home and all of this terrible doom and gloom. And I'm like, hang on a minute. And I actually took two months unpaid leave and started researching and, you know, it just opened my eyes. And I started researching about the, you know, the healthcare system and, you know, all the pharmaceuticals and all the ways that the doctors are taught, all of the background there. And it just changed me, changed my son. He's doing fantastically. He's in another state.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:09]:
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Emma Tekstra [00:07:10]:
Doing aerospace engineering. He's fantastic. Totally normal, I would say, but.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:14]:
Well, let's hold on, let's just pause for this. Your son is not doing well. And doctors are saying he's. His life is going to be miserable. And now he's been. What's the major that he's going?
Emma Tekstra [00:07:27]:
Aerospace engineering.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:28]:
Yeah, he's in aerospace engineering now.
Emma Tekstra [00:07:30]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's an amazing young man. Amazing. And basically from the age of five, we stopped doing any kind of conventional health care. Not a pill for a Headache. I mean, not anything. And all the other things, I mean, we can get kind of get into that. But it opened my eyes.
Emma Tekstra [00:07:44]:
And because of where I was, I worked for a big global multinational with lots of different businesses. I wanted to do that, I wanted to speak out. And so I moved into the healthcare practice. And I started now working with, say, multinationals, but more focused on things like healthcare wellbeing, corporate wellness, all of that kind of good stuff, and everything was great. I mean, I love my job. I worked with some of the best people in the industry, corporate hr. I mean, I really enjoyed what I was doing. And then Covid comes along in 2020, and initially, you know, we're all pulling together.
Emma Tekstra [00:08:14]:
Was an extremely busy year when you're in global healthcare and a pandemic. Pretty busy that year, and it was pretty insane. But I had amazing teams around the world. We had doctors all over the world. Most of my work at that time was outside of the us So I was working with our teams around the world. And how are we going to address this with our clients? But the clients that I worked with were US multinationals. So how are they going to address things for employees around the world? And then I was talking to our colleagues in the US and so I'm hearing all this stuff that's going on and vitamins and supplements and getting outside and all these kinds of things that I've known about for 15 years at that point, 10 to 15 years. And then I start talking to my colleagues in the US and they're like, no, no, no, you're a crackpot.
Emma Tekstra [00:08:55]:
You can't be saying those things. We need drugs. And I was just like. I was so surprised because they knew me. They'd known me for so many years. I was so grounded in data. I mean, I had data for everything, right? Yeah, too much data. Anyway, so that's really what led me to the book.
Emma Tekstra [00:09:12]:
Because in corporate America, they just want a PowerPoint slide with maybe three bullets, and that's how they'll make their decisions. And it's more complicated than that to really give the history of how we got to where we got to in 2020. So I was like, you know what? I just can't do this anymore. And it was just too hard. It was making me ill with the stress for me, wanting to talk about how to help our clients make their employees healthier. And I felt like we weren't helping them, we were adding to the problem. So I left in March 2023, and I spent about nine months writing the book and then now I'm obviously talking about the book, but using that as. Not that it's my manifesto, but it kind of is.
Emma Tekstra [00:09:49]:
And I work with employers who want to take a different approach, probably smaller employers at this point, but that want to take a different approach. I call it a wellness first approach. We couldn't get into that. But then also startup companies that are bringing fantastic health solutions to market. So, yeah, that's why I'm here.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:05]:
My gosh, I love this so much. And on this show in my life, anybody who knows me knows that I'm constantly looking for the connection points between business brain or nervous system and the Bible. And everything that you're talking about is so near and dear to my heart. And so I believe this big movement that we're seeing now towards Wellness first, as you call it, is God dropping in all of our spirits to say, go write this book. You go talk about this. You build this business. Because it's going to take a collective of many of us to shift society towards what you and I now know is the way it's supposed to be from a natural, authentic, organic health perspective. And not organic from a go to Whole Foods organic perspective, but the way our bodies are made and designed.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:04]:
Designed. And so my heart is just so happy when I see, oh, look, you're in this movement with me. Like, yay, us. Because it has been a tough, as my grandfather would have said, a tough road to hoe.
Emma Tekstra [00:11:17]:
Coming from a farming background, we.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:22]:
Were not celebrated for these thoughts. And in fact, there were, there were a couple of years where I was careful about how I shared my thoughts and beliefs around this. Because here, like you said, here in the US we were the conspiracy theorists, we were the crackpots, we were the crazy ones. And I just kept thinking, it's only crazy till it works. It's only crazy till somebody else realizes that this is true. And I refuse to move away from it. So I love that you said, no more. I'm going to go write this book and do this thing.
Emma Tekstra [00:12:00]:
So, yeah, I mean, it was, it was definitely God pushing me to do it. And, you know, it's interesting how it came about because I loved so many aspects of my job. I love the people I was working with. Every day was different. I had colleagues all over the world and I was the breadwinner in my family. My kids were planning their college and all of this. And we had a life planned out. And I was just like, oh, this is so heavy weighing so heavy on me that I have to do this.
Emma Tekstra [00:12:24]:
And we've gone through changes at work, we've gone through organizational changes. And some stuff happened where God's like, I've been tapping you on your shoulder for a couple of years now and you're not moving. So I'm going to pull the rug out from under you and make you just. That you can't take it anymore. And so that's what it was. But, yeah, I definitely felt, you know, absolutely.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:12:43]:
Oh, my gosh, the number of clients. I'm an executive coach as well, and the number of clients that I have that have this story. And then when you're in it, you're like, this is awful. This is scary. This is. And I can now, because I've seen enough of it, can say, you wouldn't have left if he wouldn't have pulled the rug out from underneath you. And so he's. He needs you somewhere else.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:04]:
Just let's go. And so I love this so much. You've got to trust.
Emma Tekstra [00:13:09]:
You gotta trust. I'm not a writer by background. I'm an actuary, for goodness sake. I deal with numbers and stuff. I'd reached out to somebody she'd written in the newspaper that I was writing for. And I reached out to her on her website and loved what she wrote about. And she's a professional writer, has written several books. And it said on her website that she does writing coaching.
Emma Tekstra [00:13:26]:
And I was like, interesting. And this was just God pushing me along.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:30]:
The writing coaches existed until you're writing coach.
Emma Tekstra [00:13:34]:
So I reached out, said, well, I don't know if I can write. You know, I write reports and things. I even write marketing and research and things that go out in the world in my corporate life. But I don't know if I'd actually write a book. So I sent her some things. She was pretty rigorous. She. It was like going to college for six months.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:49]:
I have a friend who is a writing coach, so ghost writes for people. And it's significant. Yeah.
Emma Tekstra [00:13:55]:
And it's interesting because, you know, I love the Bibles like you, and I think it's very literal, but people don't understand. They say, oh, that was just written by humans or whatever. But let me tell you, when you write a book, you kind of see it. Because I would wake up some mornings and there was something I wanted to write about and I just couldn't figure it out, get it how I wanted, and I knew to just step away, go and do something else. And some mornings I'd get up, maybe go for a walk. We were talking about Go for a walk and it just flowed.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:23]:
Yep.
Emma Tekstra [00:14:24]:
And that's how I think the Bible.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:25]:
Go to the mountain and pray and see what you got.
Emma Tekstra [00:14:28]:
It was just flowing through my fingers. That's what God wanted me to write down. So it was fun.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:34]:
I love it.
Emma Tekstra [00:14:34]:
So much hard work, but fun experience.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:36]:
Oh, I love it. And I'm sure that's not. Well, you're writing another one like now it's all been opened up and here you go. So that's a great segue into right now in society for. Well, since the industrialists came along back in the 1900s, we have this belief that pay and benefits are the key decision making aspects of life and career. So I have a number of clients that growing up wanted to be a baker or an artist or something. And a well meaning adult would say something like, well, you can't make a living doing that. Which is code for you need something with good pay and benefits.
Emma Tekstra [00:15:22]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:15:23]:
And so they got steered away from their authentic calling that God had for them and now a lot of them are coming back to revisiting it. But this idea of pay and benefits really leading societal decision making troubles me so, so, so much. Because traditional benefits are really rooted in fear. And there's a lot of challenges even when you go to use the benefits that you've been paid for. Because then it's about the money making model. And, and I'm not down on health care professionals. I have good friends that work in benefits and their intent is to help people. So I'm not down on those people.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:16:05]:
I'm just. The system is a little skewed when I see somebody who won't take a job that they're clearly qualified for and excited about because the benefit package isn't as good as the one that they had somewhere else. That's what I'm frustrated with. And you are taking all of your experience in that world and what you know about what it takes to be a healthy human and you are guiding and leading organizations to do that differently with this wellness first approach. Tell me, tell us all the things.
Emma Tekstra [00:16:41]:
Yeah, all the things.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:16:43]:
All the things. How are you doing it? What? How are we going to do this? I want to help. Yeah.
Emma Tekstra [00:16:47]:
Because so many people, especially in the US they'll take a job because it's a great healthcare package. But you said it yourself. Yeah. That's based on fear. That's based on, well, I'm going to go, I'm going to get sick because inevitably I'm going to get sick because everybody gets sick. We've normalized illness in our society. That's a whole nother separate topic. You know, it's based on fear.
Emma Tekstra [00:17:05]:
I'm going to get sick, I've got to have a great healthcare plan or we're about to start a family. So I'm going to have a great healthcare plan. And it's all fear and life insurance and all of this kind of stuff I talk about. And a little bit towards the end of the book about human flourishing, I don't think we should be focused on good health or things like that or even corporate well being, which, you know, I love a lot of the aspects of corporate wellbeing. But corporate well being we talk about tends to be your physical health, your emotional health, maybe your social health, perhaps your career and purpose. And then the last one's your financial health. I'm sorry, the longest living, healthiest, happiest people in the world. The blue zones you might have heard of.
Emma Tekstra [00:17:42]:
Yeah, they are some of the poorest people in the world. If you were traditionally going to look at their bank account. They're growing all their own food in their backyards, they don't have a regular paycheck and they don't have access to modern healthcare at all. And they're living to 100 years old, not that they're in old age homes. They're living to 100 years old, sharp and active, doing things every day. And so I think that financial is not the right dimension. So I talk about human flourishing and for me it's similar, but a little tweak. So for me, human flourishing is definitely the physical or the biological health.
Emma Tekstra [00:18:14]:
Are you getting a lot of coughs, colds, flu? Has your immune system doing? How's your musculoskeletal system doing? Do you have aches and pain? So definitely physical health is important. Your emotional health or your mental health, super important. But that's just, that's not. Do I have a diagnosis, you know, am I anxious or whatever. It's your overall temperament, it's your, you know, are you optimistic, what's it, what's your outlook on life, things like that. But then I go into the third dimension. Yes, your, your social health, but your relationships both at work, if you're doing any kind of schooling in your family, in your community, do you have a number of people you can sit down with and have a really honest, transparent heart to heart with? That is super important for human flourishing. And then the last one for me, the fourth dimension is your spiritual health.
Emma Tekstra [00:19:00]:
Your spiritual health. And we can't talk about this kind of in a corporate environment, that's not woo woo stuff. Maybe they'll talk about career and purpose, but for me, spiritual health, very much your purpose, but it's also believing in something bigger than yourself. There's so much of, especially the younger generation that's all, oh, you're an individual and it's all about you as an individual and who you are. But that's so much bigger to the world. And I think when you're just too focused on yourself, you're not going to be flourishing. So it's who are you? What is your purpose in life? What is your. In a.
Emma Tekstra [00:19:31]:
Whatever they talk about a higher power. You know, I like to talk about gold, but whatever you want to talk about, what is the mother nature or the earth? What do they have in store for you? There's something that you were put on this earth for, and when you find that and you're living in accordance with that, that's when you're gonna see real flourishing. Not that I'm saying, you know, employers need to start talking about all of this spiritual and flourishing stuff, but I'd love to see them putting some of this stuff ahead of things like the health plan. We've got this really awesome health plan. When you're having an interview, do you have any questions? What's your health plan like and how much life insurance? No, it's like, do you have a culture of health in your organization and do you appreciate employees and want to help them develop and learn? It's things like that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:14]:
Amen. I also have kids in their 20s and I call it an identity crisis because we all are searching for something bigger, right? Something outside of ourselves, which is inherently the way we're made. And unfortunately, a lot of my kids friends are identifying with their diagnosis as their identity. So there's so much information out there about trauma and mental health. And I think that is a beautiful thing to bring those conversations out into the open air because I grew up in a society where that was not okay. And while we want to talk about it, I don't want us to come into agreement that that's my identity. I am anxiety or I am this or I am that. And that's another symptom to me that we need to bring these healthy conversations about our spiritual growth into the workplace.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:12]:
Because work has a. Just in sheer numbers, over 50% of the world's population works. You know, here in the US I think it's a 58%. And so by the nature of going somewhere every day for Eight, ten hours a day. Sometimes being in an environment where we can have these conversations could dramatically shift our society.
Emma Tekstra [00:21:33]:
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We need to talk about.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:36]:
We could just push the button and get that going. That would be great. I think we're making progress. Yeah.
Emma Tekstra [00:21:41]:
I mean, I think people are talking about. There's the whole talk about neurodiversity now at work, but it's. It's almost like the reverse racism. I see a lot of. It's. It's like, still shining a spotlight on it. That makes me a little uncomfortable as well. I mean, we talk about diversity, but I think we're coming at things the wrong way.
Emma Tekstra [00:21:56]:
Do you identify as neurodiverse? Ooh. Well, let's have this special group over there for you. And all this DEI stuff gets me a little frustrated because it did come from a great place. I mean, don't get me wrong. Absolutely. We need to be celebrating diversity. We need different kinds of people on our leadership and on our teams. But I think the way we're coming about it, I think has got a little off the road.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:19]:
We try to businessize everything.
Emma Tekstra [00:22:21]:
And measure it. Yeah, and measure it. And it becomes about measuring. How many neurodiverse people do you have on your team? Or how many, you know, have alternative lifestyles? We can call it that. And that's what they focus on instead of. It's about ideas. That the word diversity should be about diversity of ideas, not some of these other labels that you can put on people. And while that.
Emma Tekstra [00:22:42]:
The diversity of what your label is might have broadened somewhat in some ways, but the diversity of ideas has shrunk.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:49]:
Because unique, dumber fingerprints, like, every single one of us is different on purpose, for a purpose. And that, like you, that's diversity to me. It's like, let's honor and be humble about our differences and be curious about the differences and ideas of others is. Is the way it's supposed to be. Okay, so Wellness First Benefits, looked at through the lens of Wellness First. What does that look like? So let's picture that you're. I'm a business owner, and I've got 50 employees, and you're consulting me on how to go to market or talk to my employees about a Wellness first benefits. Is that practically how you work?
Emma Tekstra [00:23:34]:
Yeah, absolutely. So we would look at what you're doing today, but then look at how much money you're spending on the health plan, how much money. And if you're. If you're, you know, only got 50 employees, you've got a fully insured. Health plan. The bigger employers, they actually self insure it. So they're literally paying all the claims themselves. But how much are you spending on drugs today? Pharmaceuticals for autoimmune diseases and diabetes and heart conditions and high blood pressure and statins for goodness sake, which is just moneymaker for big pharma and really is not helpful at all.
Emma Tekstra [00:24:03]:
Things like Ozempic. I mean, the conversations today, where shall we cover Ozempic? Shall it be 50, 50 kosher? That is the wrong conversation, guys. That is the wrong questions to be asking. So instead you've got to help guide your employees to what is actually going to make them healthier. So instead of subsidizing those kinds of drugs, maybe you subsidize some of these new solutions that are in the market. And it might be that you're not aware that there's these other kinds of solutions. But so let me give you a little primer on them. So it started, gosh, I don't know, more than a decade ago with diabetes.
Emma Tekstra [00:24:35]:
So diabetes, it's not something that you die very quickly. It's clearly not a, you know, really acute condition that you're going to die tomorrow. It's just something that people live with. And so you thought, well, oh, you're diagnosed with diabetes, you're going to have that for the rest of your life and here's a few little drugs that might help you and maybe you should eat a little bit better. But now you're labeled as a person with diabetes instead. Flip that. Oh, and the health plan then is probably subsidizing your drugs and then lots of doctor's visits and your all of those gadgets that will measure your blood glucose and all that. And they'll say that's great, we're a great employer because we're supporting all of that.
Emma Tekstra [00:25:08]:
But I'm saying. No, you're not really, because you're just continuing the notion that there's somebody with diabetes. They're going to be off work a lot with lots of doctor's appointments and they're only going to get sicker and sicker and sicker because that's what happens with diabetes and the way it's managed. So instead there are these health solutions like Omada Vida, Livongo and then some of the new age ones like Cygnos Twin. Dig me, I can give you all of these for the show notes if you're interested. There's a whole bunch of health solutions that say, hey, come along, we're going to get you off the drugs. We're going to give you a nutritionist. We're going to give you a coach that you can chat with in the middle of the day.
Emma Tekstra [00:25:46]:
Oh, you know, I just had a piece of cake. What shall I do? And the coach would say, hey, you need to go for a walk or whatever, or drink a glass of water. But they aim and the employers can subsidize these programs and they're a fraction of the cost of the traditional way of managing something like diabetes. They're maybe a hundred dollars a month, something like that. And it actually reverses the diabetes, but it teaches you a new habit. I actually tried out signals. You wear a continuous glucose monitor for a little while. It has an app on your.
Emma Tekstra [00:26:14]:
I don't have any issues at all. You know, I'm, you know, I'm just curious.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:17]:
I want to get one just because I'm curious.
Emma Tekstra [00:26:19]:
Curiosity. I write about these things. I wrote about my whole experience. I love testing things out myself and experimenting because then I can help people more. I got my husband to do it as well. So we, we bought this continuous glucose monitor and it shows your spikes. So you eat something and it shows how much it spikes your blood sugar. So over time.
Emma Tekstra [00:26:36]:
And you track your food and what supplements your exercise and how much water you're drinking and you sleep. So it's teaching you all the different things that are going to affect your glucose. And the problem with diabetes is really the spikes. It's not necessarily your absolute level. And me, my husband had quite some fun with this. He said, you know what? I'm going to have a cheeseburger this lunchtime just to see what it does. And you test it out so it might be okay.
Emma Tekstra [00:27:02]:
I'm going to have some oatmeal and I'm going to eat just this oatmeal plain with my cup of coffee. And I'm going to see what that does. And then the next day I'm going to add some nuts to my oatmeal or I'm going to have some nuts before that or something else and see that actually that doesn't spike your blood sugar quite as much.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:17]:
It can because everybody's body is different, just like we said, everybody's different down to our fingerprints. So we can't say, if you're diabetic, don't eat oatmeal. If you're a diabetic, don't eat this. Because we are so different.
Emma Tekstra [00:27:29]:
We.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:30]:
We've got to see how it impacts our.
Emma Tekstra [00:27:33]:
Exactly right. And you've got to take your ownership. You can't go to the guy in the white coat and they give you a particular. Even if they give you a particular diet, a lot of them don't. They'll just give you drugs, right. But your body is terribly different. And so these kinds of solutions will work you through that. It will make you take ownership, but it'll also teach you what to look for.
Emma Tekstra [00:27:51]:
So for me, I found if I ate something, maybe a piece of toast that was kind of high glycemic index, I would go for a walk and it would totally not spike my blood sugar just doing something little like that. Some people, they can work out a little bit or do some squats or run up and down stairs. There's different things. Some people drinking a glass of water before you have something is. Is going to help you. So anyway, so there's those kinds. So subsidizing something like that. If you have something like, give you another example, you've got an autoimmune disease.
Emma Tekstra [00:28:18]:
So you've been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis or multiple sclerosis or these kinds of things. And that is a horrifying diagnosis when it's given to you. It's very scary. This is it for the rest of your life. We can mitigate the progression, but this is what you're going to have. Now, it's not true. You can reverse those things. And a lot of things that are, that they put a label on, like that is some, some complete other thing.
Emma Tekstra [00:28:40]:
You know, there's a lot of Lyme disease. You get bitten by a tick, you're dealing with Lyme disease, and it can look very similar to MS. And so there's these. Again, there's companies out there. So Parsley Health, and I love the name of that one, the Parsley Health is one of those. Well Theory, Ciba, there's a bunch of those kinds of companies and they help you with an autoimmune disease. The drugs for those are like, I think it's hum. Humira is maybe something like $30,000 a year. You think about the cost of that.
Emma Tekstra [00:29:06]:
And so instead of saying, oh, that's it, I've got to take that drug for the rest of my life, they get you off the drug. So they look at your lifestyle, they look at what you're eating, maybe you've got any food intolerances, maybe there's toxins, maybe you're in some sort of environment that you're breathing a lot of toxins. You know, a friend was working for a fragrance company or a perfume company. Constantly around all these artificial fragrances. I mean, that's toxic. So what is it that you're around? You got mold in your house. I mean, there's very real physical root causes of most ill health. So I would like to see companies put more money into those kinds of solutions and things.
Emma Tekstra [00:29:42]:
And you know, there are some that a lot of companies are already using. There's some on the musculoskeletal front, you got a backache and instead of you winding up at the doctor on pain meds or something worse, your knees are achy and you wind up having knee surgery. They actually get you working with a virtual coach. It's a real person. But yeah, you get to chat with them any day. It's not like you have to go to physical therapy once a week. They're actually, they give you exercises that you can do on your phone. They're tracking you through the computer vision, the camera, either on your phone or on a device they can send you and they improve your physical health.
Emma Tekstra [00:30:16]:
So a lot of that is actually being used by big employers. The differences that I'd like to see is that employers lead with those solutions. That's why I call it Wellness First Lead with those solutions instead of sort of tacking them on at the side, whether maybe they're just for the people that aren't too sick can try out some of these great solutions. But, oh, if you're really sick and you've got a diagnosis, then you need the drugs and the conventional health plan.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:30:40]:
So let's look at this through a business case ROI discussion. As consultants that we, we are and have been most of our lives in a traditional benefit setting, you're looking at how much are the drugs going to be, how much time is this employee going to be out of the office because they have these routine visits that they need to go to. And we're really banking on the fact that their productivity is going to be on the decline as they get sicker. And you're thinking, how can I budget for paying for not only the problem today, but assuming it's going to escalate. So costs are going to go up and they're going to be overtime until that employee retires or worse. Right. What you're proposing and what I love is a solution that says let's look at what it's going to cost us to eradicate this problem and get you well, which means that we're going to spend a less money up front even than the drugs. And the doctor care, we're going to spend less money up front and the goal is to spend no money over time and increase the well being and the productivity of this employee.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:31:56]:
Which then you think about the mutually beneficial trust that's built between this employee and this employer, which is not just they paid for my drugs and then they paid me to be out on leave because I was too sick, but they helped me heal. Hello? Hello? Anybody home?
Emma Tekstra [00:32:22]:
Which one of do we want?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:32:24]:
Oh, now I got the dogs barking because I'm knocking on the desk.
Emma Tekstra [00:32:27]:
I think the problem is that back in the day, so this is going back a little bit and probably people in HR are listening to this going, oh yeah, we tried that. The ROI on wellness programs doesn't work. Okay. So I think part of the problem is, and there's some truth to that, but I think they weren't coming at it right. I don't think the objective was wrong. The objective we have, what they are calling today, wellness programs, is going to reduce healthcare costs. That's originally why companies started investing in wellness programs. Then they decided, I'm not seeing the roi, I'm paying for all these extra programs and my employees aren't getting healthier so I'm going to not do that.
Emma Tekstra [00:33:03]:
So that was a knee jerk reaction. And then now what we're seeing is it's not wellness anymore. Let's look at overall wellbeing and now let's start measuring engagement. And there's some truth to that as well. So the devil is in the detail. It's really how you communicate. And that's why I think I mentioned earlier, it's really, when I'm interviewing for a job, I want to know there's a culture of well being in your organization. So it's not that there's a health plan and all these expensive insurance benefits and then, oh, I've got some wellness on the side.
Emma Tekstra [00:33:32]:
It's are you living and breathing and living by this? So is the CEO and the other C suite folks, are they living? Do you see them outside having a walk, you know, at lunchtime? Do you see them eating well, bringing a sandwich to work or whatever? Do you hear that? They, you know, oh, I did a great hike at the weekend. It's that it's got to come from the top.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:33:54]:
And so talk a little bit about those wellness programs that didn't give roi because I agree. Sorry, my dog. You know, it was the, if you get 10,000 steps, we're going to give you a gift card to Applebee's Programs, Right. Is that largely what we're talking about?
Emma Tekstra [00:34:09]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:34:11]:
It's different than accountability to health that you're talking about, but it also, those.
Emma Tekstra [00:34:16]:
Wellness programs, they appeal to the people who are kind of healthy anyway. Oh, you're going to pay for my gym. Oh, thanks so much. That's just one less thing I need to pay for. And so the people who weren't that sick, and yes, it was keeping them healthier, but the people who had a real diagnosis, well, I'm really sick. Oh, you need the real health plan. And so you were only, you were stopping the healthy people getting sick. Great.
Emma Tekstra [00:34:38]:
That's when people used to work for the same employer for 30 or 40 years. And that's not really the case anymore. So then they're saying, well, if you're only going to work for me and bring all your creativity and all your ideas for a couple of years, then there's not really much point to be just paying for your gym membership that you would have done anyway. So it's such a slight shift, you know, as I say, the devil is in the detail. So it's then saying even the sickest couch potato that you are too sore to even walk around the block at lunchtime or you can't come to work, you know, or you have to finish work at 4 o'clock every day because you're exhausted or you've got mental health issues. I mean, the last couple of years, a lot of it has been in mental health issues. So instead of I'll pay for your mental health drugs and your, your Prozac or whatever, but it's saying there actually might be a root cause to your mental health issues. It isn't just the newsreel or what's going on in the world.
Emma Tekstra [00:35:27]:
There actually might be a physical problem. It might be a nutrient deficiency or too many toxins or a damaged microbiome from too many pharmaceuticals, or maybe you fell out of bed a month ago and it's, it can really affect you. You know, I want to see companies educating employees and helping employees and really living and breathing this stuff and just keep the health plan, reduce the money you're spending on the health plan. You know, money talks. If an employee has to spend more money just to pop a pill because I can't be bothered going for a walk at lunchtime, then make them pay more. Again, I'm an actuary. It's all in the data. If it's car insurance, nobody would complain that the people that speed too much have to pay more for their car insurance and it might make them speed a little bit less, but you have to pay more for the drugs because it's really not helping you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:36:13]:
Yeah, I've studied a bit of how do you start a movement? Because a lot of the things that we're talking about require this kind of snowball effect in order to become the societal norm versus the societal norm now is I want good pay and benefits. That's the measure of a good career decision. So what, how can you help start that movement? Because that's, you know, it starts small and then builds and it's emotion, it's stories, it's sharing the data. What's, what are you doing out there to help get this snowball rolling?
Emma Tekstra [00:36:55]:
I guess writing the book was the first thing. I mean, I'm always of the opinion that if I can't bring you around to my way of thinking, then I'm not explaining myself well enough. And so that's why, you know, I wrote a 300 page book with over 300 scientific references. But it needs more than that. Right? And I need somebody like you. But yeah, so I've got the evidence. I mean, what a wonderful book that I, I read that I would recommend to everybody is called Willful Blindness by Margaret Hufferman. Have you ever read that book? It's a wonderful book.
Emma Tekstra [00:37:21]:
I was at a conference over a year ago and I was actually talking to a doctor, you know, one of the good guys that knows this stuff. And I was saying, I just don't get it. She was actually telling me that her grandchild had been born, her kids were having children and they were vaccina them and she was so frustrated and upset by them. We were having this conversation and even she is a doctor, an MD and knows the truth and everything. And we were talking about this and I said, I just don't get it. I provide the evidence for me. If you give me evidence to something, I'm going to do that. If I get evidence that I'm intolerant to gluten, I'm going to stop eating gluten.
Emma Tekstra [00:37:55]:
I'm just going to do those things. And. But most people, they're just not that way. And it was really struggling. I was really, it was really on my heart. I was like, how, how do I help people? And so that book was super helpful to me because it explained just mindset, different people's mindset and how they get blinded by things they're just not ready to hear. You know, a lot of people, they're not ready to hear that their Health is in their hands. That the way they've lived for the last decade or two decades is what's led to whatever their current health problem is.
Emma Tekstra [00:38:27]:
And it's not. Doesn't have to be a physical health problem. It could be a mental health problem, whether it's a big diagnosis, schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, More so if it's mental.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:38:34]:
Versus physical, because that has more barriers to it.
Emma Tekstra [00:38:37]:
Absolutely. I mean, your brain is just another organ. Right. And it actually needs more nutrients and uses up more energy than any other organ in your body. And so it's going to be the first thing to go. We hear so much about the rise of Alzheimer's, dementia and stuff, but what you're not hearing about is it was your lifestyle that led to that. And I. I think people are ready to hear that.
Emma Tekstra [00:38:57]:
And so that's certainly part of it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:38:59]:
The answer is out there is a big problem that we have from a societal perspective. We. Even when you look at the burnout statistics, the root cause of burnout is to prove yourself, work harder, and believe that if. If you take care of the business, it will take care of you. Summarized in my own language. But it's always that the problem is out there, the solution is out there. And so taking that personal accountability for it is job number one.
Emma Tekstra [00:39:26]:
Yeah, yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:39:27]:
And there was an article written in the 90s called Change or Die. And they followed a group of cardiology patients that were told if they didn't change their diet and exercise, they were in fact going to die, which the belief was that was going to be enough of a catalyst data to get them to change. Lo and behold, it didn't. Only a small percentage of them changed their behavior knowing that the diagnosis was death. And so what they found were the ones that did change, they had some common characteristics. One was it's not fear of death that gets us from stopping bad behaviors. It's the hopeful joy of what could be. So the ones that did change their behavior wanted to live more than they were afraid of dying, which go.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:40:09]:
We could go into a whole biblical discussion about love and fear. Right. All of our thoughts come from love or fear. God and the devil in a battle. Right. And so the second characteristic was they felt like they were in it with someone. There was somebody that they wanted to live for or somebody was supporting them. And so I always go to that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:40:28]:
And, you know, we know even from a marketing perspective, we make decisions on emotion, we validate it on facts, which is, you know, why I can justify purchasing that thing because it was on sale because really I just wanted it. And so when I think about what you're proposing and the work not proposing, this is work you're doing. The more we can get stories or how we process information, the more we can get stories of actual organizations and leaders that are making this shift to wellness first with their benefits, we can start to get more of a flywheel. So where are these people hanging out? How can I be friends with them? Where are these businesses?
Emma Tekstra [00:41:07]:
There are no reorganization. I mean, they definitely are. I mean, one thing that I'll. That I will push organizations is to find those wellness champions. So you find those folks who are willing to tell their stories, and they do it. Every organization has them. You'll never find an organization where everybody just wants to pop a pill. And I think that's part of the problem as well.
Emma Tekstra [00:41:26]:
Organizations and even insurance companies and doctors, they assume, like you said in the cardio patients, that like, 99%, it's not the fear of dying. They're not going to change their behavior. You can scare them. And 99% just want to pop a pill. It's not 99%. The majority of people, if you can give them again, might be something to live for. It might be to show what somebody else has done. It might be give them a goal to run a marathon for charity, or they're having their first grandchild is going to be born and they want to have the energy to get down and play with them on the floor or take them to the swing, you know, whatever it happens to be.
Emma Tekstra [00:42:00]:
I think that's the majority of people. But they just need a little bit of encouragement through stories and through support from their employer if they're not feeling well. And the first thing they see on their employer's intranet is here's the doctor to go talk to, then that's what they're going to do. Oh, and we're going to pay for all of that, and we're going to pay for the payment. That's what they're going to do because they're busy and that's just the easiest thing to do. But if they're not feeling well, they can see three other people that have had that particular situation and turned it around, or they can see solutions that can help them do that, or there's cooking classes coming in that they can join at lunchtime or a webinar on meditation. You know, I don't know, but that's. Every organization has the ability to do this, but they've got to believe.
Emma Tekstra [00:42:42]:
You've got to truly believe that this is the way to go. And it's not just for the people who are fairly healthy already. But yeah, I think number one is finding those wellness champions and empowering them to speak out and celebrating them. And the more senior those people are, the better great anybody at any level. The other thing that I do is I do a manager's course. So teaching managers, a lot of, you know, this is not even necessarily just about health, but one of the biggest drivers of mental health in a, in a business perspective is you've got a terrible manager. Now often people have a terrible manager because maybe they were the number one engineer in that department to say, oh, you're, you're fantastic at your job. Oh, I'm going to make you a manager.
Emma Tekstra [00:43:23]:
And you never train them to be terrible with people. Terrible manager. There's a lot of that, you know, so I'm always inviting, you know, train your managers. But what I'd like to see them do is also train your managers in things like well being and wellness and how to spot issues in your team and manage your own mental health. A lot of terrible managers, they've got their own mental health issues going on. They're stressed out, they're not getting enough sleep and they're biting your head off every day. That's not a great manager. So part of that manager training needs to be well being training and understanding all of this health stuff as well.
Emma Tekstra [00:43:55]:
So I think those are two things that employers could really move the needle and get that snowball effect.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:44:01]:
Yeah. And it didn't do us any good that we, those of us who looked at holistic health were looked at as conspiracy theorists. So we got pretty quiet for a long time. And I really do hope that with this new administration that was sworn in yesterday that the health conversation continues. It seems to be real. I mean, we've already got rid of red dye, we're already got some movement. And I'm really hopeful that that's going to be the snowball effect that we need. And I, I have this dream that we have entire organizations that flip the script on this to a wellness first benefit idea and that becomes the magnet for recruiting.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:44:45]:
I want to go work for that organization because they're going to help me be well. They're not going to pay for my ozempic, they're going to help me take care of my autoimmune because they know that managers need to care about our wellness. The book I'm writing now about a new definition of success. I want to help leaders, founders Lead their business this way as a, as a way of life, a way of business and use it as a recruiting strategy. I mean the, the book's not even done yet, so we got, we got some time and I know, I'm glad to have you on the team, it's going to help with that. But that's the vision I want for my kids and my grandkids.
Emma Tekstra [00:45:25]:
Yeah, we saw it a little bit in the past in the tech industry. I used to do it a lot. I'm in California. I work a lot with all the, the big tech companies that are now household names. They would attract through these really interesting, you know, they have the wonderful campuses and awesome food in the cafeteria and you can bring your dog to work and, and the exciting work, of course, it was all really exciting. But yeah, they didn't have a defined benefit pension plan. It was just not even an issue. Their health benefits are fairly rich and a lot of those benefits, by the way, were for keeping people at work so that you worked harder and you could do all that software coding 20 hours a day.
Emma Tekstra [00:45:56]:
But still people were taking those jobs because of the excitement, because of the culture in those companies. There were some bad aspects to that. Working 20 hours a day is definitely a bad aspect, but. Yeah, but I would love young people. I gave a talk to my youngest son's high school. They actually put it on the, like a TEDx youth event. And so it was all about, I think the theme was careers. And I was telling these kids, yeah, be look at and I even told them if you want to be a plumber, go be a plumber.
Emma Tekstra [00:46:22]:
You don't have to go to college and get a high powered job.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:46:25]:
Six figures. Being a plumber, pretty darn quick.
Emma Tekstra [00:46:27]:
Oh yeah, that's actually. Yeah, but yeah, but do something that you love. Be a baker. My son's girlfriend, one of her friends was amazing at baking. As a teenager she started a bakery business. Who is that? Like a 20 year old.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:46:40]:
And if you can get some of them to be seamstresses, I just got something hemmed not too long ago and it was, the pricing was astronomical because there aren't enough seamstresses in the world. Like the basic trades work for men and women is scarce.
Emma Tekstra [00:46:56]:
Yeah, yeah. We're having a house built right now in Texas. I mean you can't find the quality tradesmen that learn the craft from their parent. Whatever people think that they have to have a certain kind of job with all of these benefits and you're not living your purpose. You've got to look inside yourself again. Don't listen to other people or the media or your friends as to what your career should look like. You've got to look inside of yourself and figure out what did God put you on this earth to do?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:47:21]:
Amen. There's so many people that want to start a business and won't. Even though they would be successful, they're wired for it because they're afraid not to have benefits.
Emma Tekstra [00:47:32]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:47:33]:
And I've been running this business for eight years now. And when I first started it from my divorce, I was responsible for, for the benefits of our kids because of my earlier career and breadwinner and all that. So I did purchase benefits which were outrageous for a little while. But then as my kids aged out, I started looking at the fact that I only go to functional doctors which aren't covered in my benefits. I go to the chiropractor, I go to the massage therapist, I go to the sauna, I go to all these places for wellness that none of that's covered. And so I started, when that bill would come in, I would just get bitter and angry. And so I finally just canceled my benefits. And I have never felt more free.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:48:14]:
And so somebody said to me the other day, asked me about benefits and I said, I don't do that anymore. And they said, what do you mean? And they literally looked at me like I had just lost my mind. They said, aren't you afraid? And I said, well, I got Jesus in my wellness plan. So I feel pretty covered actually, that I don't need to pay for an insurance company for my well being. And it is a big switch in mindset. But I'm telling you, I just feel more accountable and free because of my choices. And I've funneled that money into wellness programs and I feel great. I haven't been sick in forever and quite frankly, if something happens, God forbid that I have an accident, like it's going to cost me less because I'm paying cash.
Emma Tekstra [00:48:57]:
Yeah, yeah. You've just got to trust your body was made to heal. It's gonna heal itself. You treat it well, it's gonna heal itself. Don't think that you're gonna get sick. That's just a terrible way to live. You know, if you go out on an evening, you have dinner with friends and two days later you find out one of them's got, got the flu or whatever, you start thinking, oh, I'm gonna get the flu. Now don't think that way, because if you think that way, you will.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:18]:
Your words have Power. And don't come agreement with sickness because your cells just are gonna line up and go. I guess we're getting sick now. That's what she said. So it's that powerful. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I said this before we hit record.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:32]:
We could do a seven part series, just you and I riffing on all of these things. I just am so excited for you and the work that you're doing. I'm grateful to be on this journey of spreading the word with you. How can people find you to stay connected with you? I want them to go buy your book, how to be a Healthy Human, which I'm assuming Amazon and all places that you buy books. Where do you hang out from a social media perspective?
Emma Tekstra [00:49:59]:
I. I hate social media.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:50:00]:
Yeah, good.
Emma Tekstra [00:50:01]:
I'm very good at it. I've got my website, it's kind of. My home base is emmatekstra.com with a K. So go there. But yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I tried to do LinkedIn, so I'm on there just for historical reasons. So I do try and post on LinkedIn. I'm on Substack.
Emma Tekstra [00:50:14]:
Probably my favorite is probably Substack. I love to write, so I'm writing weekly on Substack. So a lot of, you know. Yeah, health tips or helpful, uplifting kinds of ideas on Substack is probably the place to buy me. I'm on Instagram. I'm not very good at it, but you can find me.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:50:30]:
If you're writing good, practical things on Substack, you're serving the, the community who wants to find you better than anybody. So I love that. And we have a lot of business leaders that listen to this podcast. So it may be solutions that they can look at for, for their company. Yeah, yeah, I love that. And so you're writing your next book. Give us a little teaser about that so you can come back next year and this year and talk about it.
Emma Tekstra [00:50:54]:
Yeah, so that's all about how to raise a healthy human. So really taking the foundations that are at the start of this book and then I go into the different kinds of illness that you might have, but then how to apply it to kids 0 to 18. So I'm hearing so many problems with so many people with fertility problems these days, especially, you know, taking the shots and things can really affect your immune system and your fertility. So right from how to get pregnant to through pregnancy, all up to those 18 year olds, very wide ranging, not just physical and emotional health, but lots of different aspects. Schooling and friends and being outdoors and sports and all that kind of good.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:51:29]:
Stuff and you have so much knowledge to share from your background and experience that science based database. Oh, love, love doing it.
Emma Tekstra [00:51:38]:
I just want to give people resources to help themselves. I mean, I don't know you, you are an individual. I'm really sort of laying out here are all the different options. Go figure out what's going to work for you and your family. Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:51:50]:
Amen. Let's stay connected. Let's be friends.
Emma Tekstra [00:51:52]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. This is great. As soon as I saw all your, all of your details and your background, I'm like, oh, gosh, this is great.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:51:59]:
I'm glad that we've been connected. It's great.
Emma Tekstra [00:52:02]:
Absolutely.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:52:02]:
Thanks for being here and you let us know when that next book is ready and we'll have you back on the show.
Emma Tekstra [00:52:06]:
I certainly will. Thank you so much for having me.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:52:08]:
Thank you. Thanks for being here. You can follow us on Instagram, Business is Human or TikTok Rebecca Fleetwood Hession. It's a great way to share some of the clips with your colleagues and friends. All right. Make it a great day. Love you. Mean it.