Caution: Robots at Work with Camron Rudd

Show Notes

Join Kosta and his guest: Camron Rudd, Chief Operating Officer of Hörmann North America.  Hörmann is a German-originating manufacturer of doors, garages, door frames, and gates for commercial and private real estate. Operating globally, the family-owned business is Germany's largest door producer and the fourth-largest door manufacturer in the world.

Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a product of Morgan Franklin Media and recorded in Cookeville, TN.

Find out more about Camron and Hörmann North America:
https://www.hormann.us/

Find out more about Kosta Yepifantsev:
https://kostayepifantsev.com/

What is Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev?

Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a podcast about business, parenting and living life intentionally. We're here every week to bring you intentional conversations on making your own path to success, challenging the status quo, and finding all the ways we're better. Recorded in Cookeville, TN, Kosta joins guests from all walks of life to bring fresh perspective and start your week with purpose. We're better together.

Camron Rudd: What I find
fascinating about AI in the

workplace is that we've seen a
major shift in the worker, you

know, when I first started
walking the manufacturing floor,

you would bring in a piece of
automation and there was this

suspicion toward the piece,
right? And you're like, I don't

want that, you know, it's gonna
take our jobs. Now, it's funny

because I walk on the production
floors and all of our facilities

and somebody's like, why am I
doing this? Can't you get a

robot to do this? But they're
saying, look, I can be utilized

in so many better ways than the
stand here and just do this one

repetitious, you know, a task
all day long.

Morgan Franklin: Welcome to
Better Together with Kosta

Yepifantsev, a podcast on
parenting business and living

life intentionally. We're here
every week to bring you

thoughtful conversation, making
your own path to success,

challenging the status quo, and
finding all the ways we're

better together. Here's your
host, Kosta Yepifantsev.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Hey, y'all,
it's Kosta. Today I'm here with

my guest, Camron Rudd, Chief
Operating Officer of Hörmann,

North America. Hörmann is a
German originating manufacturer

of doors, garages, doorframes,
AND gates for commercial and

private real estate. operating
globally. The family owned

business is Germany's largest
door producer and the fourth

biggest door manufacturer in the
world. Cameron, before we get

into this episode, I want to ask
you about the very specific

degrees you received that helped
propel your career to the place

it is today. Collectively, we
have a bad habit of telling

students what they should and
shouldn't study when a career

can be built from any degree.

That being said, Well, you tell
us about your degrees and how

they brought you to Hörmann?

Camron Rudd: Yeah, so I went to
Tennessee Tech, and I studied

mechanical engineering and
German as a combo. So I have

bachelor's degrees in both of
them. It's an interesting combo,

I would think it's a little bit
outside the box for some folks.

I don't know if it's really that
far outside the box. I mean,

when you think about Germany,
you think about precision, you

think about high quality, and
that sort of thing. And that

kind of aligns pretty well with
mechanical engineering, I think

because you have to think about
things and 1000s of an inch and

precision that comes with the
language, I think is sort of

embedded in it. So I think it
was a pretty good, pretty good

mix. People do think it's
strange, because it's very much

like left brain right brain like
it's worse. It's a little bit

more like outside the box in
that sense. But I'm hardly the

only engineer in the world that
speaks two languages. So So

Kosta Yepifantsev: did you go to
like a career fair? And Herman

was there and you decided I want
to work for that company? Or did

you actually just pull two
degrees that you were interested

in out of the hat and say, no,
they're

Camron Rudd: completely air?

What happened? Yeah, what
happened was, so my, my Sunday

School teacher when I was a kid
was a German lady. So as a

typical stories, she was a, you
know, a spouse of a former

military guy, who moved her back
to Tennessee. And so when we

were kids, we would go to, you
know, we sang Christmas carols

in German, and we would get
candy when she would come back

from Germany. And so I had sort
of an interest in it. And then

when I started at Tech, you
know, you're required to take a

foreign language, and I took
German sort of out of honor for

her, she actually passed away my
senior in high school. And so I

took the class, and just really
enjoyed it, like I was good at

it. And it was this sort of
like, ying and yang completely

different from the engineering
department, you know, it was

engineering was all about math
and science, and, you know,

right and wrong answers, and you
go to the Foreign Language

Department, it was a lot more
like, let's say artsy, and

people were interested in a lot
of it are very creative, you

know, and so it was a very
different environment. And I was

good at it. And I did it, you
know, semester after semester,

and after about four or five
semesters, the director of the

Foreign Language Department at
the time, I got the name of Dr.

Philip Campania, he still lives
in town, he kind of tapped me on

the shoulder one day, and he's
like, I think you ought to be a

German major. So we looked at my
schedule. And sure enough, you

know, I was kind of on a track
by accident to do both degrees.

So he kind of talked me into
sticking it out and doing it.

And so

Kosta Yepifantsev: you graduate,
and let's just guess you move to

Germany and you start knocking
on business door.

Camron Rudd: What I did do is I
did come across the book, I

think a friend of mine had given
me this book, she was an

exchange student in Austria. And
she had given me this book from

a job fair that she had went to
and had all these companies in

there. And so I just started
reaching out to them through

their HR departments sending my
resume and, you know, just

applying for jobs, mainly in
America and North America,

particularly businesses that had
some sort of a presence in, in

North America, or in Tennessee
in particular. And yeah, they,

you know, they saw it on my
resume, and I got a lot of job

interviews, and I got actually
had six job offers out of

college, and five of them were
with German companies, and all

of the stories were somewhat
similar. They're like, you know,

we don't meet a lot of people in
the man in America that can

speak German. And so that's kind
of what, what happened. Herman

in particular, what had happened
was, they were having a trade

show in Nashville, and the owner
was in the United States to go

to the trade show. And the
managing director at the time

for the American business, had
given my resume to him and said,

hey, you know, there's this kid,
maybe we should talk to him and

we met at the Outback Steakhouse
on Interstate drive. I love it.

We had dinner and we the whole
interview

Kosta Yepifantsev: was at the
blooming onion. Yeah, exactly.

We just had the whole the whole

Camron Rudd: car reception was
in German. And you know, they

went to their trade show in the
next week, Mr. Harmon called me

and he's like, I have no idea
what I'm going to do with you.

But I think you're a perfect fit
for my business and my future

plans. And I'd love to have you
come on board,

Kosta Yepifantsev: and you speak
German fluently. Yeah. And so

when you graduated college, you
could speak German fluently,

right? Yeah, it

Camron Rudd: was a little more
broken than it is now. I mean,

I've been Herman now over 18
years, and I've been to Germany,

probably close to 40 times, man.

And so at this point, you know,
it's a lot more polished, I

would say, than when I first
started out, but yeah, I could

hold a conversation and do a job
interview.

Kosta Yepifantsev: What's your
favorite city in Germany to

visit?

Camron Rudd: Oh, my goodness, we
have a facility in a place

called East US housing. It's in
the area around effort. So

effort is the name of the city.

Beautiful little town. There's a
place there called the kind of

look, it's a bridge where people
actually live on the bridge.

It's an apartment complex sort
of speak that's been there since

the 1400s. So it's a it's a nice
little town, but so a lot of

places Berlin is an
extraordinary city, in

Stuttgart, Munich.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I've always
wanted to go to Berlin. Jessica

studied abroad. There's a sister
school in Aachen, Tennessee

Tech. Yep, yep. And so we've
been there twice. Last time we

went was in 2013. We were there
for the 2010 World Cup. Okay,

what it wasn't in Germany. It
was in South Africa, but it

wasn't in Germany was very good
that year. And I think they made

it to the semi finals last in
the Netherlands who would lose

to Spain in the finals, but
regardless, beautiful country.

Yeah, he went from Aachen to
Dusseldorf, to Strasburg, which

is technically France, and then
to Lake Constance and then to

Munich, and Munich, bro, BMW.

Yeah, cuz somebody has not
visited Munich. You've gotta go

because it'd be the BMW
facility. They got Rolls Royce,

and they have like the old
Hofbrauhaus, which is intense.

Yeah.

Camron Rudd: It's it's, it's
unique as a city I know fairly

well, we do a lot of trade shows
there. So every other year, I'm

in Munich for a week. And so I
know, I know Munich very well.

It's a great town. You know,
once you get to know Germany a

little bit, you know, Munich is
sort of like is the capital of

Bavaria. And Bavaria is like
Texas. I mean, it's Germany, but

it's

Kosta Yepifantsev: kind of like
You Don't Mess With Texas. You

don't mess with Bavaria. Right?

Exactly.

Camron Rudd: It's just its own
little it's not like its own

little subculture. They are.

Actually Germany is just one
into the others. A lot of little

subcultures. There's a lot of
deep, deep history there. You

know, the glug of bead is
different than again, Bavaria,

or some other places.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Yeah. Nice.

So as I mentioned in your
introduction, you're the chief

operating officer for Hormann,
North America. What does that

role entail?

Camron Rudd: So when I started
with Herman in 2006, no 2005, we

had a an importing business in
East Tennessee. And so we only

had a 65,000 square foot
facility. I was like employee

number 13, or 14, something like
that. And we imported everything

from Germany. As time has went
on, we have basically purchased

other companies. So we purchased
first we purchase general

American door, which is a
company in Chicago, that

actually I would move to Chicago
in 2006, Northwest door in the

Seattle market TNR up in Canada
in a company called flex on that

we rebranded Herman
highperformance. And those sort

of all ran is independent
businesses. So each one kind of

had their own president, their
own marketing department I was

at I was the president of Herman
LLC, which our factory was in

Chicago, and we had sales
centers on the East Coast. And

then we decided to, in 2021,
sort of the pandemic was

upsetting everything anyway. And
we started what we called the

stronger together initiative to
basically completely reorganize

North America, so that
everybody's in one organization

at that point. So that part part
of that reorganization, the

president of the West Coast
business, became the CEO, I

became the chief operating
officer. And my role is

specifically is to manage
manufacturing, and to make sure

that all the plants are working
together and the distribution of

the products into the market.

Kosta Yepifantsev: And just so
people understand I mean, Herman

is a over 2 billion Euro a year
company, yes, which is

Camron Rudd: the fourth largest
entry systems manufacturer in

the world, it's him. So in North
America, we're less than 10% of

the market. But you know, we're
going to open our 20th sales

center, we have five factories
in North America already. And I

think the plans over the next
five to 10 years, we're going to

be well over, you know, 40 or 50
sales centers. You know, there's

a lot of markets we're still not
even really active in so the

Herman family wants to grow and
grow aggressively. And, you

know, when you're the fourth
largest, it's kind of hard, if

nothing else on your pride to
stay the eighth largest market,

you know, so

Kosta Yepifantsev: what's the
largest door manufacturer in

North America?

Camron Rudd: It's a it's called
overhead door Corporation and it

states its overhead door and
Wayne Dalton are the two brands

that they rent well, they have
Genie as well, which is an

operator company, but it's owned
by a Japanese company. It's

called Sandler shutter and
they're the largest in the

world. Second largest is a
Swedish company called ASSA

ABLOY they do locks and all
kinds of other you know,

hardware systems and stuff as

Kosta Yepifantsev: well. So I
got to ask, What's it like

living in Chicago?

Camron Rudd: You know, being a
Tennessee kid really got old

after a while to shovel in the
snow and, but wonderful place to

raise kids honestly where we
were, you know, we were 30 miles

west of the city. You know, we
had good schools, kids walked to

school, you know, they had
friends really close by, they

could ride their bikes and play
in the neighborhood and do all

that stuff. So it was a really
good, really good place when the

kids were little. But we did get
to the point where, you know,

the taxes and the weather and a
lot of that stuff started to get

a little bit tough. And then my
wife also be in Tennessee, and

like I am was like, I really
don't want to have grandkids and

be stuck here for the next 40
years. So having an opportunity

to come back to Tennessee was
really great for us.

Kosta Yepifantsev: The only
thing that I know about Chicago

is the show shameless and Al
Capone to an outcome.

Camron Rudd: That was it's a
great city. I mean, we we've

really enjoyed living there. We
have some great friends that are

there. There's some things about
it that still miss I love how

everybody there they wear their
heart on their sleeve in

Chicago, you know, where you
stand with people all the time.

And that was probably the
biggest adjustment for me coming

back to Tennessee was we're a
little more tight lipped. And

we're not as you know, in
Chicago, if they're, if they're

not happy with you, they're
gonna tell you right away, you

know, they're not waiting to
pull the punches and, and my

wife had to remind me, you know,
she's had to tell me more than

once she's like, You cannot honk
at these people, we probably go

to church.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Let's talk
about Herman Sparta. This is a

325,000 square foot facility
that opened in 2020. In your

opinion, what made this area the
perfect place to bring a

manufacturing facility like
Herman,

Camron Rudd: I have mentioned
before I was the president of

Herman LLC in our facility in
Chicago is very much landlocked,

so we were have 180,000 square
feet there, we still have that

factory still run that factor.

So what I'm responsible for, but
it's, it's sort of hemmed in on

all sides, we weren't really
able to expand the business. So

I went to the ownership. And I
said, Look, we need certain

product categories that we can't
manufacture in this building, we

cannot expand it to do it. So
we're going to have to start

looking at other alternatives.

And we kind of opened up the map
and we started looking at

different places that we could
possibly locate. And of course,

being from Tennessee, having
roots here, and even Herman

having some connections with the
state when they first started

the business in 2002. With the
state of Tennessee, it gave us

an opportunity to kind of reopen
those conversations, in addition

to other locations. I mean, we
looked at places in Indiana and

Kentucky and other places. And
when we came here, in

particular, we really just
course I was I had a little bit

of inside baseball like the
upper Cumberland offered. And so

I wanted it on our list. And so
we had a site, we were actually

looking at the portabellas site
where the tile manufacturing is

going in Baxter, but for our
particular building, it just

didn't fit, you know it, we
didn't fit on the site, so to

speak. And so we thought the
door was going to close. But

then the opportunity came up in
White County, some folks through

TVA kind of had seen the site
and was like, hey, this might be

an opportunity for you. So we
looked at the site, and we're

like this is this is a perfect
site. We had three Tennessee

sites on the list. We had the
Sparta site, we had one in

Manchester, and we had one in
Gallatin. And when we brought

the owner over from Germany,
Christoph Herman, the guy I

mentioned earlier that hired me,
we did the tour, right, we did

the chamber commerce tour went
to each of the sights, and I'll

never forget that morning, we
got in the car, and we were on

our way back to the airport. And
he looked at me, and he said,

This is Herman city, like, this
is the kind of town the kind of

location the kind of resources
and stuff we look for when we

when we locate our buildings, we
have 45 factories around the

world, he just felt at home, he
said, this is this is the kind

of place we'd like to be. And it
was pretty much it, I closed the

deal.

Kosta Yepifantsev: You know, we
talked to Melinda key for a

couple weeks back, and she gave
us some insight into how

economic development works. And
I know that you're real

passionate about that side of
government, just give us like a

brief snapshot of what your life
was like, trying to get a

325,000 foot facility to Sparta.

Camron Rudd: Part of the reason
I'm so fascinated by that is

because I was so ignorant when I
started, you know, because I

sort of thought, you know, you
call up the town, you say I want

to show up, and they're like,
oh, they roll out the red

carpet, and it's done. But it's
a lot like, you know, for lack

of a better term is like dating,
you know, I mean, you you got to

figure out, is that a good fit
for the company? Is it a good

fit for the community? Do they
have the right resources? Do

they have the right
infrastructure in place for the

business? Do they have the right
workforce for that kind of a

business? The the community is,
you know, they've got limited

resources to I mean, they've got
only so many, you know, pieces

of land that they can develop,
you know, and when if they're

going to pass out tax
incentives, of course, that can

that can end up being a negative
impact. Some, in some cases in

the community. Do we even want
this business in our area, you

know, if it's dirty, if it's
stinky, if it's, you know, so

there's a lot of conversations
that happen, that I was just

ignorant to, honestly. And so
when we went around to these

communities, they would love
these questions that were just

like, Well, why are you asking
me that? But I eventually caught

on like, Oh, this is like
dating, you know, like, you

know, are we going to work
together? Can this work? Is this

a good fit for us? You know, so
that's why I was kind of

fascinated by it. It really does
come down especially in the

state of Tennessee, it comes
down a lot to the local

leadership, it comes down to
their ability to evaluate what's

a good fit for the community,
and play the game for lack of a

better

Kosta Yepifantsev: term through
like your experience is

Tennessee, probably One of the
best states in terms of doing

business and like a

Camron Rudd: country mile, I
mean, I, you know, I still

responsible for the facility in
in Chicago, and it's a lot of

you know, I should probably read
words, yeah. Red tape will go

with red tape. But it's just a
difficult environment, you know,

it's a lot more like a
suspicious orientation toward

business in those environments.

An example is in the Tacoma
facility, we're in this little

town called Pure Love, which is
just south of Tacoma,

Washington. And we're building a
40,000 square foot warehouse

there right now. And I spent a
big chunk of my week this week

on the phone with the
contractor. And it is 180 degree

different experience than what
we had here in Tennessee. You

know, here, they were very
welcoming. They wanted the

business they wanted, they want
to work and partner with us

there. It's like they're judging
the diameter of the trees that

you're cutting down, and what's
the diameter of the trees you're

going to plant? And I mean, we
had more fees, and just

submitting the building permits.

So it was amazing. So it's a
completely different

environment.

Kosta Yepifantsev: How much did
it cost to build this facility

in Smyrna? Well,

Camron Rudd: the total ticket
All told, ended up being around

$100 million. Oh, wow. The
facility itself, the building

itself was about a third of
that. But the equipment's where

the money was, we have a lot of
European equipment that's in the

facility that had to be
imported, and, you know,

installed with, you know,
foreign labor from the company

that built it

Kosta Yepifantsev: well, and we
had the opportunity to tour the

facility at the last Highlands
economic partnership meeting.

And I'll tell you, it is,
obviously it's really similar to

an Ikea on the outside, just
because the colors are pretty

much the same. It is the same.

Yeah, it's like inside. I mean,
one of the things that was

astounding to me, and we're
about to talk about this at

length was this is a huge
facility, a huge enterprise, and

there was only 70 people
working. Yeah, you know. And so,

as I was talking to your plant
manager, I asked him, I said,

you know, what would happen if
you guys didn't have all of

these machines, how many people
would be on the floor right now,

if all these machines weren't
present, and he obviously threw

out a number, it couldn't be
exact, but he said roughly about

285 people, that's probably not
wrong. And that is astounding.

So let's address the elephant in
the room when it comes to

manufacturing, automation AI,
and the future of work is on

everybody's mind right now.

Whether you're a business owner
who sees this as an opportunity

to reduce overhead or work or
using AI to make a task more

time effective, there are so
many positive uses for

automation. But like all
advancements, not everyone is

embracing it with open arms to
those people, what do you say?

Camron Rudd: Stop being a
hypocrite. Okay, that's probably

a little rude. But the reality
is, is that we, as a consumer,

you, you expect automation, like
you go to the store, and you

want it to be perfect, right? If
I buy something, and I open it

up my experience when I open
when they do I do, what are the

unboxing videos on YouTube,
right? Like your whole

experience is expected to be top
level within the same and the

same and the consistency, right.

And that is only possible
through automation. Like you can

only do that through the help of
the precision of machines, and

the data that passes to those
machines and that sort of thing.

So I get it, I understand that
there's some level of

intimidation there. But at the
same time, the way you live your

own daily life, you have an
expectation of it. Sure, you

know, and so I think you have to
you have to find there's a

balance there, of course, but I
think you have to embrace it on

some level, you have to
understand that it's necessary

to live, you know, the 21st
century life that we live,

Kosta Yepifantsev: and I mean,
it keeps costs down, right?

Imagine if you had to pay 285
people as opposed to paying 70

people per shift like your costs
of a garage door would be

exorbitant anymore. Same thing
with that bag of chips, you

know, that gets filled by a
machine right?

Camron Rudd: Well, you know, our
friend, Lisa uric. Yeah, she

likes to say you were in a sands
Dimmick, you know that we're

that we have a shortage of
people. And she's 100% right on

that. I mean, we have this
situation where, you know,

during the pandemic, a lot of
folks that were near retirement

did retire. I remember when I
got into the business, you it 19

years ago, folks that were in
the prime of their careers, 45

to 55, were part of the baby
boomer generation, right? Well,

you know, you fast forward 20
years, those folks are gone.

They're retired. And you know,
if you look at the demographic

graphs, those folks are gone,
and they're not coming back,

right. So as a business, you
have to just embrace that

reality and say, Look, those
folks are not coming back to

work, we're not gonna be able to
pull them out of retirement and

put them back to service. So
we're gonna have to figure out a

way to produce the same amount
or more and use less people to

do it. What I find fascinating
about AI and in the workplace is

that we've seen a major shift in
the worker, you know, when I

first started walking the
manufacturing floor, you would

bring in a piece of automation
and there was this suspicion

toward the piece, right? And
you're like, I don't want that,

you know, it's going to take our
jobs. Now it's funny because I

walk on the production floors
and all of our facilities and

somebody's like, why am I doing
this? Can't you get a robot To

do this, you know, because they
almost recognize their own

worth, or they do recognize
their own worth, they're saying,

Look, I could be utilized in so
many better ways than to stand

here and just do this one
repetitious, you know, a task

all day long.

Kosta Yepifantsev: You know, I
literally resonate with

everything that you say,
especially the sands Demmick.

And we're experiencing it in the
healthcare industry. So when you

say that people left the
workforce disproportionately

left the workforce relative to
other years during the pandemic,

and honestly, I don't even think
that downturn in the economy is

going to bring those people
back. So essentially, that's a

subset of individuals that are
gone completely. And the younger

generation is looking for more
creative and less structured

outlets to be able to earn a
living. So oftentimes, they

don't want to work in a
manufacturing facility in a

factory setting. That's not
their first choice, right. And

I'll point to a younger brother
in Atlanta, and he doesn't want

to do anything but gig work. He
wants to drive Uber, he wants to

deliver food, he wants to do all
these jobs that allow him to be

have a flexible schedule,
essentially, the question is,

though, how will automation
progress? And to what point is

it too far when it gets out of
balance, because there are very

smart people that are going to
be able to create systems that

can eliminate practically all of
the positions that there is in a

manufacturing facility. And I
say this, because we are

currently trying to incorporate
some form of automation and

technology into the care
process, which is an individual,

a person caring for another
person, just because it's a

necessity at this point. So when
does it get out of whack?

Camron Rudd: I'm a little more
optimistic, I don't think that

you can really manufacture I
don't think you're gonna be able

to completely eliminate
everything that is especially

like in our business, at least,
there's so much, you know,

there's so much breadth and to
our product palette, like

there's so many, if you go onto
our website, and you look, the

number of colors, the number of
options, the number of sizes of

products that we make, and you
can automate to a degree, the

more standard it is, when you
start becoming more and more

custom, then it's more
economical for the business to

just have somebody doing that
customization. So there's kind

of a limit to how far the
automation can go. Because the

downside of it is that it has to
be standardized. You I mean, it

really needs to be standardized
to sometimes a ridiculous

degree. And so people still want
something unique, they still

want like in our business garage
doors. I mean, they're building

their house, their dream house,
you know, so they have a very

specific aesthetic that they're
looking for. And when we build

the doors for those jobs,
they're only for that house, we

may never build another door
like that. And we have those

conversations a lot. You know,
we do return on investment

calculations for my money in
which all of our investments,

and there's just times where you
know, the sales volume doesn't

justify the level of investment
required to make it fully

automated. So I don't know that
it's ever going to get to the

point where you're running a
true lights out facility unless

that lights out facility is just
turning out one white widget of

a certain size, absolutely
hundreds of them.

Kosta Yepifantsev: In your
opinion, how can automation and

manufacturing and labor help
improve our quality of life in

the upper Cumberland
specifically?

Camron Rudd: Well, on the
manufacturing side, we do have

the shortage of labor, right,
the Saints Dimmick aspect, what

we're finding with our blue
collar workforce on the plant

floor is that they value the
variety that we can offer, you

know, they're not necessarily
doing that one repetitious job

all the time, they can move
around, and they can be part of

a lot of different aspects of
the process. And there's a sense

of ownership that kind of comes
from that, that they're multi

tool and not just you know,
doing one particular task. And I

think that raises job
satisfaction and that sort of

thing. So where you do have
automation and it just as

punching out parts, then yeah,
set that up, let a robot do it,

just run it. But let them get
engaged in what I was just

talking about, you know, those
one off projects, and there's

one off applications. That's one
of the great things I love about

our business I've always loved
about our business is that it is

a known visible product. You
know, I mean, I mean, we've got

beautiful pictures over decades
of, you know, everything from

small bungalows, to multimillion
dollar homes with our product

prominently part of the face of
that house. And that that means

it's a much more engaging
product to be involved in.

Kosta Yepifantsev: And you guys
make like even wood garage

doors, like out of real wood.

And yeah, I remember you were
telling me about like some

places in the United States,
they have these specific codes

where you have to have kind of
the historical element

preserved. And so you have to
build these extremely unique

doors to be able to pass codes
and

Camron Rudd: these areas you
might have to match the exact

architectural aesthetic that was
there originally.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Amazing.

Amazing. So if you were talking
to someone that's 18 years old

and is going to be a freshman in
college, like my son like your

son, if you're talking to your
son about His future about what

he should major in about what
type of career he should have?

Is it engineering? Is it
something more creative in terms

of, you know, like, can you like
being a creator on social media

like an influencer? How do you
essentially explain the future

of work to your son who's just
getting started.

Camron Rudd: So my son is going
to study electrical engineering.

And he's very much an engineer,
we knew my wife, and I knew when

he was three, that he was going
to be an electrical and are not

necessary electrical, he's gonna
be an engineer. But, you know, I

tell I tell students, especially
if they're going into college,

that they need to just take a
breath and be patient and really

just learned the material. You
know, I mean, I think what

happens a lot of times is that
they're looking at, you know, a

four year schedule, and I gotta
hit so many credit hours, and I

gotta hit this particular
graduation date. And they don't

pay attention to all the other
opportunities out there, you

know, take a foreign language
class, you know, go ahead and

add the minor of history or
whatever, because you're going

to draw experiences from that,
that you could parlay into some

other economic benefit for
yourself in the future. I also

think it's very important that
people learn how to communicate.

So that's the thing about about
foreign language, I think that

people miss the point on is that
it's one thing to be able to

speak to somebody in their
language. And that's wonderful.

But it's also about just how to
communicate, you know how to

engage the other person, make
sure that they're listening,

pick up on body language, you
know, kind of to be able to

build that skill set. Because I
feel like if you can do

something, if you were an
engineer, for instance, and you

have a marketable skill set, and
you can communicate, you can

write your own checks on this
world.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So in the
next 10 years, what is the most

important degree? And what is
the most important job?

Camron Rudd: Oh, geez, I have no
clue just off. Yes, take a

guess. Oh, my gosh, I really
have no clue. I still think

there's a lot in the in the
Computer Space. Okay, be done. I

mean, I when I think about areas
of the business, we have the

hardest time hiring for it's all
in some sort of it.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I mean, even
though China has, like however

many millions of youth that's
unemployed. Yeah.

Camron Rudd: And that may be
true. The problem is back to the

automation, every single
business is trying to figure out

ways to digitalize. And it's not
good enough to just take this

out of the box, you know,
solution. It needs to be

tailored to that business on
some level. Yeah, I mean, so

even if the program has a lot of
tools to it, somebody's gonna

have to sit down with that
business owner, sit down with

that individual and say, Well,
what do you need the software to

do for your business? And I
think that's going to be one

area that I don't I don't see
that slowing down anytime soon.

Kosta Yepifantsev: As someone
who truly understands the value

of operations and management,
how are you using AI and

automation to improve your
everyday life personally, but

also professionally?

Camron Rudd: Personally, I'm
probably more of the naysayer.

I'm moving away from that I like

Kosta Yepifantsev: using chat,
GBT. No, I

Camron Rudd: don't use chat TV.

I know. And I And it's funny,
because I've had some pretty,

pretty insightful conversations
about chat GDP just the last

couple of weeks. But it's not
something that you know, because

I do value communication. You
know, I'm actually a little bit

of a naysayer on the floor, I'll
give you the foreign language is

a good example. You know, my
kids for the longest time would

say, Well, why would I learn a
foreign language because by

time, I'm 2530 years old, I'll
be able to put some sort of

earbud in and then I'll be able
to Google Translate. Yeah, use

Google Translate. But I know
from my own experience, over

years of personal contact with
other human beings, I don't know

how that will ever happen. I
mean, that heart to heart

connection with a human being, I
just don't know that that ever

happens through some sort of
filtering of technology. So I'm

a little bit of a naysayer that
in my personal life, I mean, I

read a lot I read a lot in
German, you know, I watch films

and stuff in Germany, I read
history books, I try to like

take stuff in on a personal
level, and not just depend on

the technology. Professionally,
though, I think we use it all

the time. And if they get that's
just going to continue to grow.

Marketing uses it for a rough
draft copy for, you know, a

marketing campaign or we bought
a really cool spring

manufacturing machine, from a
German company that's using AI

to do real time adjustments on
the equipment while it's

running. I mean, the technology
is there, we're not going to

slow it down, you know, employ
it where it's safe.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Sometimes. I
wonder though, like when you

when you're incorporating this
AI processes into your business,

I always am concerned that I may
go too far. Because when you

have efficiencies, you can't
help but try to create more

efficiencies and more
efficiencies and more

efficiencies. And the reason
that I bring that up is because

for example, when we're when
we're rolling out this

technology pilot with
UnitedHealthcare, we are

incorporating passive monitoring
two way communication cameras

using an Alexa show, right? But
as you know, in like countries,

for example, like China, they
have artificial intelligence

that works completely passive
and doesn't actually alert

anybody until it meets a certain
number of metrics. And as my

brain is rolling, I'm thinking
like, okay, that is a huge

efficiency for us to not even
have to monitor the environment

at period with a carrier Ever,
whether it's remotely or on

site, you have AI that sort of
filling in the gaps. I mean, I

personally can see a lot of
people that are going to suffer

specifically entry level workers
that are more or less used to a

repetitive skill set, I just
don't think that there's a

future in this economy for them.

I believe that one of the things
that will be more important than

anything else in the next 10 to
20 years are people that are

going to be able to sell and be
creative, and tap into that

human element that as of this
point, I don't think AI is able

to do, they can, they can look,
you know, I'm sure in the next

five to 10 years, they're gonna
look human. But it's just like

somebody that kind of
understands how to speak German

versus somebody that speaks
German fluently, right? Be able

to speak a language fluently. I
speak Russian fluently, well

with an American accent. But it
is my first language and I am

much more comfortable. And I
understand how to communicate

with my hands with my, with my
facial expressions a lot more

than somebody that's studying
Russian or doesn't have, you

know, 40 trips to Russia, like
you have 40 trips to Germany,

right?

Camron Rudd: Well, the personal
element, though, is so

important, right? I mean, I can
think about friends in Germany,

I have a friend in Germany is
named Stefan Lindsey is an

engineer works at one of our
plants, procollagen. And he and

I have known each other for a
long time. And, you know, I know

his daughter and his wife, and
I've go to his house, and he's

got a sauna, we go sit in the
sauna for a little bit, we go

outside. And I think about all
those evenings and all those

stories that he's told about,
you know, on the sailboat with

his grandfather, you know, in
this sort of thing. I mean, how

does AI replace that? I mean,
it's a personal connection, you

know, I mean, and my experience
with the language is that it's

not just about, you know,
where's the bathroom? How to

read the menu, you know, it's
about personal connections that

I've made with friends that I've
built over the years. And I,

that's one of those areas where
I'm a little bit more

trepidatious about that, you
know, I mean, we can rely on the

technology and all that. But if
we lose the human element, or

why we're even developing it in
the first place, we're missing

the boat.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Absolutely.

And, and but I think that the
service and retail industry, so

fast food, I mean, you look
what's happening in fast food

right now, you may go to a drive
thru you obviously the lobby is

closed, been closed for three
years. It's not reopening, but

you go through a drive thru, and
very soon, and in some major

markets, you're ordering from an
AI or intelligent robot, right?

In my opinion, I believe that
those types of industries are

the first ones to go fully
automated, without having to

employ individuals, but that's a
major and that's an entry level

job, an entry level profession
that a lot of people start, when

they're, you know, high school
kids, or, you know, they're

maybe not going to college, and
they need to make ends meet for

a little while. And then

Camron Rudd: we're gonna get
into a complete conversation

about the value of work and all
of that you might, you know, my

daughter, she worked with us a
little bit this summer, she's

17, and she's the new crumble
location, she's accepted a

position that you know, to work
there for graduation is sort of

a second job, let's say, and I'm
a big fan of that, I mean, you

there's a value to the work, you
know, what I mean, being able to

do that. And so I think that's a
real shame when that starts to

go away. But it's the natural
outcropping of, you know, a

confluence of things. One is the
repetition of the work. And the

other is things like, on the
west coast, there's places with

$25 an hour, you know, minimum
wages, and, and you know, and

you're not going to be able to
cover the cost of the material

and the labor and still provide
a product that will sell at a

price point that will sell

Kosta Yepifantsev: it goes all
the way back to how we started

this conversation on AI, which
is, it's there to keep costs

down. But when we were at the
Chamber meeting, I think, I

think it was important to know,
you know, as for example, the

price of care goes up, there's
people that are priced out of

the market, now the price of
care is going up, because

obviously inflation, but also
because of government's

intervention, there's a lot of
people that can't afford care.

And if you don't have ways of
bringing those prices down, less

and less people are going to be
able to receive the necessary

services and shop for items that
are within their price range.

And dare I say, even, you know,
afford to eat, right? Finally,

if you could pick one business
or industry to come to the upper

Cumberland that would complement
both Herman and the plentiful

resources of our area, what
would it be

Camron Rudd: automated machine
manufacturing, who, you know,

companies like ATC, okay, if it
were up to me, we'd have we'd

have 100 of those type
businesses in this area. I think

it's such an excellent fit for
this area. You have, you know,

Tennessee Tech University right
here graduating all kinds of

engineers, great skill set right
out, bring them into the

workforce pipeline. And there's
a real need for that. I mean, as

you think about things like
automation, and all of that. You

need engineers, you need
programmers, and you have to

build that up. And so we bought
a lot of equipment from northern

Italy, and Germany. And that's
because that's where those

industries are. And that's where
that automation and all that

stuff is coming from. And I
think this community would be a

great fit for a burgeoning
industry of that I'm sure ATC

doesn't want competition when
you have to make those kind

actions you have to bring those
businesses in. And they have to

have a willingness and a desire
to expand the business to the

air. I mean, it's back to the
dating thing again.

Kosta Yepifantsev: They say, I
wonder if they have a Tinder

profile?

Camron Rudd: Yeah, right.

Exactly. Yeah. But I think that
is just such a, first of all, I

think there's a need for it,
right? I mean, in our industry,

I mean, some of the equipment we
bought in Germany, we bought it

in Germany, because we could not
find a single American

manufacturer that made it
there's just these different

types of automated machine
manufacturing applications that

we just don't have enough in
North America and a community

like Coke, they'll be. That'd be
perfect.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Before we
wrap up, can you pronounce the

enunciate it correctly? For us?

How is it how so I say Hormann
during the episode and I say

Herman during so what's the
right way to say it's

Camron Rudd: Hillman? Okay, from
the back of your throat Hill,

man. Hit him.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Airman.

Camron Rudd: I always I always
used to. I always say that, you

know, if you've got a teenage
daughter then you know exactly

what that sounds sounds like.

Because you knock on the door at
seven in the morning and they go

that's what it comes down,
Hillman.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I love it. I
love it. Now your daughter is

she gonna go to Tennessee Tech
to no idea.

Camron Rudd: She'll be 17 in
September and she's afraid she's

still bouncing around. We'll
see. All right now she's gonna

make some crumbled cookies. I
guess

Kosta Yepifantsev: I love it. So
we always like to end the show

on a high note, who is someone
that makes you better when

you're together?

Camron Rudd: Couple of options
there. You know, my, my wife for

sure. We've been married for 22
years. We met at Tennessee Tech.

She pushes me in the right
direction. She highlights the

positives and suppresses the
negatives in my personality.

Professionally, I would say
Tomas Hillman. He's the 85 year

old owner in all those trips to
Germany to design the Sparta

facility. And he's built 45
factories around the world. And

he's just got a just such a
wealth of knowledge and just

sharpers attack and really knows
what's going on and he

definitely makes you better when
you're there.

Morgan Franklin: Thank you for
joining us on this episode of

Better Together with Kosta
Yepifantsev. If you've enjoyed

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friend. Today's episode was
written and produced by Morgan

Franklin post production mixing
and editing by Mike Franklin.

Want to know more about Kosta
visit us at

kostayepifantsev.com. We're
better together. We'd like to

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