Narrator: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast, where we
explore why it matters and
matters pertaining to it.
Keith Hawkey: Welcome, everyone,
to the IT Matters podcast, where
we crack into the minds of the
brightest IT leaders and discuss
the challenges we're facing. As
we stay sharp and guide our
organizations to a brighter
digital future. I'm your host,
Keith Hawkey, technology advisor
for Opkalla. And today, we are
discussing change management
with the former CIO of
LendLease, a real estate company
to help design develop and build
and fund cities from scratch.
LendLease, won the 2021 Fast
companies top innovative lists,
and 2021 GRESB award as a sector
leader. Meridith is now
consulting organizations on how
to manage technology change from
a human perspective, and is a
wealth of knowledge for those
organizations that are making
the right investment, but might
need a little help with adoption
and policy building and getting
maximizing those investments
that we make from a human
perspective. Meridith, welcome
to the IT Matters podcast.
Meridith Fix: Thank you, Keith,
thanks for having me. I'm happy
to be here.
Keith Hawkey: Happy to have you.
So Meredith, can you tell us a
little bit about yourself? How
did you end up where you are
today? Tell us a little bit
about your your career path and
and how you got here.
Meredith Fix: I have a 25 year
career in IT, I started when I
was 12. I worked for the same
company, a lot of that time
started as a systems engineer
and then worked my way up to the
regional CIO role. You know, in
those 25 years, I've worked
across a lot of the more
traditional IT disciplines. But
definitely my role as CIO was my
favorite. People are my passion.
I love working with people. It's
really what got me into
technology in the first place.
And over the course of my
career, I found myself working
on several large transformation
initiatives and numerous little
individual projects. And
technology is the easy part,
it's the people part that's the
hard part. And that's because
we're all different. I tell my
daughters, we're like
snowflakes. Each and every one
of us is unique and different.
So I love working with people
with a dash of technology. And
that's me.
Keith Hawkey: People are the
difficult part of this equation.
I tell you, some technology
leaders agree some might
disagree and say that the bugs
and the errors and everything
that comes with technology is
difficult. But I tell you what,
with how rapidly the environment
changes in the second quarter of
2024. It sure seems like
adoption is painful. What's
interesting is I work with
technology leaders across the
country. And there are some
different perspectives on where
your employee base is, is based
out of. I know that if you're
maybe a little bit more focused
on the West Coast change is a
little easier. A lot of our
technology companies originate
out of Silicon Valley. Where
we're based out of in the
southeast, change is a much
harder equation to solve. What
are some of the insights that
you've learned of your career to
start building the foundations
for a technology change earlier
on because as as we've discussed
before, starting when you're
deploying a technology doesn't
always go as planned.
Meredith Fix: I think what
companies need to shift from and
this is not just CIOs, but it's
the entire executive leadership
team. And we have to stop
looking at change management as
a specific transformation
initiative or a project, we have
to start looking at how we can
within our organizations
cultivate a culture that can
sustain continuous change.
That's a lot of Cs there, but
cultivating cultures that can
sustain continuous change. What
I'd like to do is just take a
minute and show you this diagram
here that I've referred to a
lot. And it really looks at the
rate of innovation, compared to
our ability as humans to adapt.
Right. So as you can see,
there's a pretty big gap here.
And I think the challenge for
organizations for the C suite is
to figure out how to close that
gap. And I think that's a
really, really important thing
to understand and talk about,
and really why why does this gap
exist? And this gap exists
people resist change out of
fear, out of fear and distrust.
Because our brains are wired to
keep us safe. We have this sort
of natural inclination to lean
towards the status quo to
prioritize the present. And so I
think one of the things that
companies on the West Coast,
technology companies, one of the
ways that maybe they're
different, is because they
understand the importance of
creating psychologically safe
cultures. I mean, you see that
in the Agile Manifesto from
years and years ago, which
software companies have kind of
taken to heart. I think that's
part of why you see that that
difference. And I think, you
know, what's important for all
companies, regardless of whether
they're a technology or not, is
to take some lessons from that
and to figure out how they can
create that safe environment and
organizations for people because
that will help them to navigate
change.
Keith Hawkey: What do you think,
causes IT organizations to have
a less have a less safe
environment? What are you what
are the precursors that that
bring about, well, it's not just
the IT organizations, it's the
organization as a whole, that
are less safe that resists
change. What are some of the
problems that you've seen
through your career, and now
that you're, you're consulting
organizations, in this respect.
Meredith Fix: So I was actually
just talking about this morning,
the client that I'm working for
now, currently gelled one, one
of the things that the original
owner was really keen to do was
to make sure that even during
downtimes, they didn't lay
people off, right, they looked
at what an individual brought to
the table and just figured
there's got to be something else
in the company that this person
can do for us. So we'll, you
know, reassign that person and
let them keep their job and
continue adding value to the
organization. And I think, you
know, over time, companies have
adopted a different approach,
they've had to, so I think
anytime company, a company goes
through a round of layoffs, and
then more layoffs, and then more
layoffs, things like that
contribute to sort of
instability that people feel.
That just in and of itself, is
going to make the culture feel a
little bit more unsafe. It's not
to say that companies shouldn't
do that, right, they have to do
that in some situations. But it
contributes to that instability.
One of the things that we did at
my former company, before I
left, we made a decision to
outsource a lot of our IT
operations and support to a
managed service. And that
impacted about 50% of the IT
roles in the organization
globally, about 50% of their
roles were made redundant. But
then the bulk of the 50% that
remained had new roles. So they
took on more, they did things
differently. So essentially,
everyone in the IT organization
had to change. And what I
learned through that, is that
three things, these three
fundamentals that I believe
about people. People want to do
the right thing. They want to do
the best job they can. They do
the best they can with the tools
they have, with the information
they have, and they want to feel
valued or appreciated for what
they're doing. And I think you
know, if you can do those things
for your people, that will help
you to overcome that instability
that people feel with the way
the world works today with
frequent layoffs in large
organizations.
Keith Hawkey: Yeah, that sounds
like a pretty cataclysmic
change. And you probably, you
had the the the rest of your IT
organization that had to retool,
rescale, reorient their
priorities. Some of them may
have felt as if, I'm sure some
of them actually appreciated
some of the redundant tasks not
being on their plate, and so
they can spend more time
aligning with the business,
developing applications that
solve business problems, some
may have taken it as a shock and
wondered if the MSPs presents
grow are they next. So
definitely, bringing that to the
organization that's ready for
change is an important precursor
before implementing an MSP. The
tech industry is known for its
fast paced, dynamic nature. How
can IT leaders create a culture
of continuous learning and
development to help employees
keep up with evolving
technologies and skills?
Meredith Fix: I'm one that, I
guess a couple of things in that
space. I think you technology
people need skills beyond just
the technology. Right? You know,
we're talking about soft skills
a lot. But I think any kind of
learning that a person does,
whether they're in tech or some
other industry, contributes to
the overall like whole person
and what they bring to the
table. So as a leader, I
encourage people to do all kinds
of things, you know, take the
tech class, if that's what you
want. But let's make sure that
we sort of schedule that, such
that when you come out of the
class, you can actually use what
you've learned, right. But also,
I encourage the team to do what
I call passion projects. And I
didn't invent that term. I've
seen it, you know, in other
places, but like, find something
that you're passionate about,
and go do that, whether that's
volunteer at a local
organization, like we have
Apparo here in Charlotte that
works with nonprofits on their
IT strategies and solutions. So
go do something in the volunteer
space or, you know, join a
softball league, and bring your
your teammates along with you.
So really, anything that you're
doing, where you're learning
something new, I think brings
valuable skills back to the
table, I think we have to get
away from just looking at
technology skills for our IT
organization for our people. To
me, that's very important. And
then I guess the other thing I
just want to say in that space
is focusing on your strengths,
like we all have strengths. And
that's what makes us unique and
different. And that's kind of
our you know, gift to the world.
So I'm a big proponent of
focusing on your strengths,
because most likely, those
strengths are something that's
easy for you to do, you're
really good at it, and you enjoy
doing it. And so if you can get
all that, you know, together
that's really going to help your
employees learn and want to keep
learning but also feel like
really engaged and want to
contribute to the overall team.
So that's, I'm a big proponent
of that learning in all areas.
Keith Hawkey: So the EQ or
emotional acumen can can play as
a significant role in the
overall mood and happiness of
the organization itself. I mean,
you've spent a lot of time over
your career hiring and looking
for the best talent on the
market to to add to your
initiatives and overall
strategy. You mentioned that the
hard skills are important, but
the emotional intelligence is
also a key factor when you're
looking for an addition to the
team. What are some of the ways
that you've been able to draw
out hints and clues that this
person would either be a great
fit for your team or not a great
fit for your team from that more
of an emotional intelligence
perspective, for more of the
soft skills perspective.
Meredith Fix: One of the things
that I'm a big proponent of and
I invested a lot of time in as a
CIO was getting to know the
unique strengths of each of the
members of my team. And whenever
there was a new position, what I
would look to do is hire someone
that had complementary skills.
So if I had 10 direct reports,
and seven of them were great at
oral presentation skills being
up in the front of a room, if
I've got an an open role, I
might look for someone that
might not be as skilled, that's
as important for me, I might
need someone who loves like
written communication, who loves
to review business requirements,
documents, that kind of thing.
So whether it's a technical
skill like that, or, you know,
some particular thing that I'm
looking for, to balance out the
group, like someone who loves to
organize team events. As I'm
interviewing candidates for that
role, I'm always looking for
complementary skills. So it
would vary, you know, between,
depending on what the makeup of
the team is at that particular
point in time, but I'm one of
the things that I like to do is
to get people talking. I'm a
pretty strong introvert, so the
more I can get you to talk, the
better. I'm also very
inquisitive by nature. So I just
went ask a lot of questions, and
then have the candidate talking
a lot. And that, you know, would
give me a really good idea as to
how the person communicated, how
they responded to questions
like, were they really listening
and responding to my question or
just saying what they thought
they needed to say. So that's
what I did during the interview
process. I'd look for
complementary skills, soft
skills, and the more technical
skills, and then get people
talking during the interview.
And then I guess the final thing
I would add is that we would
often do a team interview so I
don't want to just rely on my
intuition when I'm interviewing
someone, but the we would invite
others to participate in the
interview process as well.
Trying to do the same thing I
get the person talking so you
can figure out as much as you
can about the individual.
Keith Hawkey: Did you ever
connect with some of your team
members that were in the
interview and everyone had very
different opinions? Or did for
the most part, you guys see the
same things.
Meredith Fix: 80-20 rule. 80% of
us would probably feel the same
way it would either be a thumbs
up or thumbs down or eh, not
sure. So most of us would at
least have the thumbs up or down
the same. You know, when you get
to that point, you just, you got
to make a call. That's why
you're the leader. And you don't
always make the right ones. But
you do try.
Keith Hawkey: That reminds me of
a, so my company Opkalla uses
the Predictive Index for, it's
effectively a personality test.
And some of their their people
were at our office yesterday,
and they were discussing the
four quadrants of how we
communicate. And there, there
are times that you're
communicating in the way that
you do and it doesn't resonate
at all with those that don't
communicate this way. You know,
the four quadrants are, there's
more visionary, there's an
analytical, someone that more
focused on methodology, and then
more of that emotional
connection type. I wonder if in
some of these interviews, you
had employees, that team members
that had these different traits,
people that came into the
interview and connected with
those traits resonate with them
more and are more impactful than
the other ones. Yeah, visionary
comes in and is explaining the
vision, but most of your team is
more of that methodology,
analytical side, they can be a
great fit, but they just haven't
been able to connect on those
aspects of communication. Yeah.
Have you had any experience with
judging personalities of your
team and people you might be
interviewing?
Meredith Fix: Yeah, and I guess
it goes back again, to what is
it that we're looking for, like,
what are what are the skills,
what are the things that we as a
team needed? So if we needed a
dose of visionary, then that's
what we would be looking for.
That's what we would be
appreciating. If we needed a
dose of analytical, they know go
through this step, and then this
one, and then this one, and they
do it slow and do it
methodically, we would know we
didn't have that on our team, or
we had too much of that on our
team. So that didn't really play
in to our decisions. Like it
didn't get us in a position
where we were in conflict. We
also did a lot, I think, prior
to even like posting the role,
like we talked a lot about,
well, what is it that we're
looking for in this particular
role? What do we need to augment
our team so that we together are
a stronger leadership team. So
we did a lot of prep work before
then as well. And you know, by
doing that prep work, and having
those conversations ahead of
time, that probably helped us to
be more aligned. After we
interviewed the candidate, when
we were actually making that
decision. Sort of begin with the
end in mind, kind of thinking.
Keith Hawkey: That reminds me of
another aim that you have
Meridith, which is employee
reviews. Switching gears here,
employee employee reviews can be
a challenging process for anyone
in IT leadership. What are some
of the common pain points that
you've encountered in conducting
employee reviews and every IT
leader that I work with, yeah,
that that is one of the most
painstaking activities that they
have to do. And it is it is
cookie cutter, it's, you know,
they have to check the box in a
lot of ways, it's very time
consuming. And really, rather
than a point in time you're
reviewing your employees
throughout the year. What are
some pain points that you've
encountered in doing reviews?
And do you think there's any
ways to innovate in this area?
Meredith Fix: Yeah, so I
recently read a study that
Gartner did, and and in that
study, the study revealed that
77% of employees are either not
engaged or are actively
disengaged, right. So that means
only 23% of employees are
engaged, and 95% of employees
are unhappy with a traditional
performance review process. And
I can absolutely attest to the
vibe that I was in that 95%
category, both as a manager and
an employee. I mean, I like I
said at the beginning, I love
people I love learning about
people. I love helping people
build on their strengths. But I
cannot, I hated performance
reviews. And I think you know
when you and I were talking I
said yeah, I'm so thankful I
don't have to do those anymore.
Or at least I don't have to do
them right now. The bee in my
bonnet that I really get, like
the worst thing for me is this
forced bell shaped curve, or
call it calibration, call it
whatever you want to but it's
this idea that proliferates and
performance management processes
that you know people fit into
this bell shaped curve. And I
just feel like that is
detrimental to creating the kind
of environment that we talked
about, you know. If if people
really want to do their best,
and they're trying their best,
and they're doing the best they
can with the tools they have,
and they want to feel
appreciated for doing that, you
know, that bell shaped curve
does not do that. In fact, I
feel like it does the opposite.
And as you know, a manager, I
really felt boxed in and I want
to share with people what I love
about what they're doing so that
they can do more of it. But I've
got to figure out, like, where
do they fit in this bell shaped
curve, it's just extremely,
extremely painful. And in terms
of like, well, what can be done
about that? Are companies still
doing that? I think, you know,
leadership teams are hearing
that 95% of people are not happy
with this kind of process. And
so you're starting to see with
some of the more forward looking
innovative companies that they
are looking at different ways of
managing performance in their
organization. Deloitte, GE,
Adobe, those are a couple of
good companies to look at. And
they've been a multi year
journeys to move away from
these, like annual performance
reviews to, you know, processes
that help encourage the
continuous coaching and
feedback, and focusing more on
personal growth and development,
rather than some specific goals
written on a piece of paper once
a year. So I think, you know,
companies are opening their
eyes, and they're starting to
look at things, you know, a
little bit differently, but
it's, you know, it's gonna take
some time for sure, so most of
us have to still operate in
this, like, you know,
traditional type of performance
management system. So I just
would encourage people to like,
you know, keep the faith, change
is coming. And just focus on
that, like continuous coaching
and helping you know, your, your
team, your people to grow
personally, and you know have
that open dialogue, and then
don't ever, the worst thing is
like going into a performance
review and surprising an
employee. That's like walking
into a boardroom and not knowing
the answer before you walk in,
right? Like, there should be no
surprises, if you're giving your
people continuous feedback
throughout the year, if you're
really truly doing that. Even
though it's an annual stinky
process, there shouldn't be any
surprises.
Keith Hawkey: Have you ever had
a member of your team that you
felt you could get more out of,
that had potential, but it was
obviously they were stuck in a
rut. There was something going
on whether it was professional
or personal in their lives, that
they weren't focused and, and
dedicated in the way that you
would like to see them and they
ultimately have the potential to
to be. Have you ever had a team
member that you experienced that
was like this? And, you know,
what are some of the ways that
an IT leader can target an
employee like this and get the
most out of them, you know, help
them kind of reinvent themselves
at the company.
Meredith Fix: I think it all
starts with like this, this
culture of psychological safety
and employees trusting you as a
leader, right? If you have that
trust, if you create a culture
that is safe for people to share
what's on their minds, and what
they're feeling? Then it is
easy, easy in air quotes, to sit
down with an employee and have
that conversation, you know,
just say, May I share some some
feedback with you? And then
just, you know, have the open
conversation to say, look, you
know, I see so much potential in
you, what can we do so that
everybody else can see that too?
And, you know, talk through,
like, what's not working
currently, what is working? And
then figure out, like, how do we
get them more of what is
working? How do we help them
build on their strengths, so
that they can show to everybody
else? That untapped potential
that I see. That's how I've
handled that in the past. And it
tends to work pretty well.
Because again, people want to be
seen and heard for who they are,
they want to feel like their
efforts are appreciated. And
even if it's not going in the
right direction, they still
have, you know, value and skills
that they can contribute to the
team, and I think the other
thing is the leader has to look
in the mirror and say, hey, if
this employee is doing the best
they can with the tools they
have then maybe I'm not giving
them the right tools. I think
there's some responsibility on
both sides there.
Keith Hawkey: I couldn't agree
more. There's there's often the
case where you have more of a
boss mentality. And they think
that anyone under under them
fall in line. And if they're not
falling in line, something is
wrong with them. Certainly the
better leaders through time are
the ones that are able to level
with their team, sit in their,
walk a day in their shoes, and
understand what they're going
through and be accessible. Yeah,
it is a rapidly changing
technology environment and you
know 2024 with artificial
artificial intelligence,
impacting multiple sectors
impacting a lot of what we have
spoken about today. Where do you
see some of the generative AI
impacting change management,
employee reviews? Where do you
see that landing in some of the
areas that you have expertise
on?
Meredith Fix: We talk about
change and why people resist
change. And a lot of that is
fear based, right? There's a lot
of fear right now about AI, and
you know, what it's going to do?
Whose job is it going to take?
And so I think, you know,
education is key there, like,
what is it? And what is it not?
If you look at an an individual
organization or an industry,
there will be some spot places
where yes, you might start to
invest, but it's going to take
some time before, AI is truly
enterprise ready for most
organizations, right? You're
more innovative technology
oriented ones, they're going to
be way down the road faster. But
the bulk of people don't work in
those organizations, right. You
know, they work for a
construction company, or a
hospital or, you know, a school
system. And so I think we used
to have the same manage that
fact, like, what what are the
facts? And let's start with the
facts. And let's talk about what
what's really happening, like,
what's the potential? How do we
think that's going to impact you
or your role, and then sort of
start to plan for that. I think,
you know, the more we can do to
allay people's concerns and
fears about AI, actually, the
more people will embrace it, and
the farther we'll be able to
take it. And the more benefit,
we'll see from it. Have you
dabbled with any of the ChatGPT
or Bard functions?
A little bit. Yeah, a little
bit.
Keith Hawkey: What have you
found it useful one and not
useful for?
Meredith Fix: For me, it's
useful to like, get an idea to
get started. And even before
ChatGPT, if I needed to, like
sit down and start a research
project, or write a paper or,
you know, an important
communication or presentation, I
would sit down, I would Google
just to get inspired. Right. So
I've used, you know, those tools
to help me get inspired. But
what I inevitably find is, they
don't write like, I write, so it
doesn't feel authentic and real.
So and I inevitably end up
writing it, in my words, in my
way, so that, you know, as a
communicator, I come across as
real and authentically me. But I
do use it for inspiration. And I
think, you know, the same will
be true for a long time to come
until I have my own personal
ChatGPT, which maybe is around
the corner. I don't know.
Keith Hawkey: We're coming close
to the end of the podcast. And
one thing that I always like to
ask guests is, is if you could
display on a billboard all
across the world, and only IT
leaders could see it, a message,
what message would you have for
what an IT leader? What's
missing? What is missing from IT
leadership that you think needs
to be said?
Meredith Fix: Well, one of my
favorite quotes of all time is
"Be the change you want to see
in the world". And so I think
that's what I would encourage IT
leaders to be, really any
leader, but definitely IT
leaders. Because if you want to
get your executive team to
change, if you want to get your
employees or your customers to
change to adopt some new
technology that you're bringing
to the table, you've got to lead
by example. And you've got to
walk the walk yourself. And
that's how you'll get your
employee base behind you. And
that's how you bring your
executive team along. And that's
ultimately, you know, by having
all of those people sort of on
that journey with you, that's
how you ultimately deliver the
best thing to your customer. So,
"Be the change you want to see
in the world", I think is for me
anyway, words to live by.
Keith Hawkey: Be the change you
want to see. Well said,
Meredith. Where can our
listeners find you if they have
any any follow up and want to
engage? How, what is the best
way to reach you?
Meredith Fix: So I am on
LinkedIn, probably the best way.
Go on to LinkedIn and search
Meridith Fix and there you'll
find me. That's probably the
best way to get me. I'm
constantly checking.
Keith Hawkey: We'll make sure to
include your LinkedIn profile on
the show notes. Thank you so
much for joining the podcast.
It's been a pleasure.
Meredith Fix: Thank you. I have
enjoyed speaking with you. And
hopefully your listeners will
get a little nugget or two out
of our conversation.
Keith Hawkey: Or three or four.
Meredith Fix: That would be even
better.
Keith Hawkey: Thanks, Meredith.
Thank you, everyone. We'll catch
you next time.
Meredith Fix: All right.
Narrator: Thanks for listening.
The IT Matters podcast is
produced by Opkalla, an IT
advisory firm that helps
businesses navigate the vast and
complex IT marketplace. Learn
more about Opkalla at
opkalla.com.