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Welcome to your weekly dose of The Psychedelic Psychologist. This week we meet Lindsey who shares her story of how her relationship with psychedelics has evolved and what has worked for her. Lindsey discusses how she's explored microdosing to book-end her experiences to enhance her intentions and integration work.
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook
Healingsoulsllc.com
The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I wanna invite you to take a moment,
whether it be at the beginning of your
day, the middle of your day, or as
you come off of a wonderful day and
simply breathe into that expression of
the beginning, the middle and the end.
Taking a moment to acknowledge
in everything we do.
There is a nuance of a beginning,
the spectrum of the middle and a
completion of the end, breathing in
and breathing out,
allowing your awareness.
To be present to all the facets, all
the stages and all the expressions of an
experience breathing in and breathing out.
And as you take this moment to pause,
Reminding yourself that any given moment
through any stage, you simply have an
opportunity to be present, to be gentle
and to be transparent with yourself
and the expression that you have.
Taking now a final exhalation and
inhalation exhaling out and breathing
in and noticing the exhalation.
Now as the beginning and the inhalation
as the completion exhaling out.
Inhaling in opening your
eyes to see the room.
And most importantly, to see
yourself a little differently.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of
the psychedelic psychologist,
where I invite my guests to share
stories about their psychedelic
experiences, the cover of variety
of topics from overcoming addiction.
Severe depression to finding wholeness
and spiritual emergence today's podcast.
I have the privilege to talk with Lindsay
who shares her wonderful experience,
her connection to the medicines
and the way she expresses herself.
Lindsay, Lindsay, it's
so great to hear you.
How are you coming in?
Thanks, Ryan.
I am very excited to be here and
talking with you today and I've
got a really nice day ahead of me.
So I'm just feeling quite relaxed
and, thoughtful, more thoughtful than
usual and more time to be thoughtful.
I love that expression more
time to be thoughtful and
more space to be thoughtful.
Let's dive in.
What, what has psychedelics meant
to you and how have you found it?
How was the invitation accepted to
work with these wonderful medicines?
Yeah.
So for me, my experience with psychedelics
started really in, in my teens.
and I won't go back to all
the stories around that, but
I'd say it was definitely in.
More recreational type of, use, but
also for me, dance was something that
always was a big part of my life.
And so it combined with that, and
I'd say early on really did have some
spiritual connection types of, pieces to.
I love that.
Yeah.
So that was, that was my start.
And then, over the past few years,
my experience has been solely with
microdosing psilocybin, and that was
after a pretty significant period of time.
And I'd say some.
Traumatic experiences in my personal
life, in my work life and a lot of
emotions that were difficult to deal with.
And it started with a client of mine who
had a really great experience microdosing
and, and he was coming to it from a
different place of really wanting to
optimize, his work and his relationships.
And so that got me thinking about
it and really looking at options
for, how to utilize that in a
way that might make sense for me.
And, and that was about the time
that I started working, with you Ryan
in the capacity of a guide through
that process and realized that.
I was also missing the spiritual
connection that I'd felt, throughout
my life and, and really sort of,
felt very disconnected with after the
completion of my training and schooling
and being in this place of a lot of
work stresses that were very new.
And so I wanted to having stepped
into a different, Experience with
my work and, and helping people.
I wanted to reestablish that connection.,
and it was a little, I'd say surprising
really that my first experience with
the microdosing, just really, I felt
that a lot, I'd say that was probably
the most significant thing I felt
with that very first experience.
Say more about that, that spiritual
connection that reconnection to your
spirit, your higher source of expression.
Yeah, I, at that time, that day,
it was very much related to music.
There was a, a certain
song that I listened to.
And then I, I really just felt this,
universal, I would say this connection to.
, the world around me and, this, what I
believe is this larger force or, I don't
like the word force necessarily, but this
presence of healing that is all expansive.
And so just even, getting a
glimpse of that, I'd say.
That was something that I, I really
would notice every day, even when
I was living in New York city, I
remember walking around and just,
you know, in the mornings kind of
saying like, am I on my path today?
Like, am I connected with my higher
self and on a path of where I want
to be and where I'm meant to be.
And, and that was.
Went away, I'd say in that
period of feeling disconnected.
,and so, yeah, I had, I had an
experience of that, that day.
that's beautiful.
And I still pause.
Can I ask you about that?
Can I ask you about that
moment when you're walking and
recognizing that path you were on?
How did that come to you
to start just checking in?
Cuz that's such a beautiful intuition.
Yeah, it really is.
Intuitive sense.
So like a knowing and, and
it's tied to feelings too.
probably for most people, but, but
that's what I would notice was like a
definite feeling in my body of a yes
or no, that alignment the alignment.
Yeah.
,and I think probably that.
Honestly, like looking back in
that situation that I described as
stressful, like I'm sure I was getting
these nos, but then the logic part of
my brain was like, oh, you're fine.
Like, just stay here.
You'll just be here a little while.
It'll be okay.
And then, you start to not listen to the
intuition and then it, in a sense it's.
You've walked away from it and then
it's walking away from you and it's
not like it isn't there and accessible.
It's just, you don't notice it
anymore and you're not cultivating it.
, so I think that was a big, big part of
what was going on in the disconnect.
Sure.
And now that I hear you say
it, the eloquence that you
bring up of acknowledging this
conscious mind that, has.
Gain so much traction in our
personal life and professional world.
You're saying you are answering the
intuitive yeses far more frequently today.
Yes.
That I notice that, that
there is, how do you do that?
How do you do that?
How do you listen to, I mean, it
really, how do I listen to it?
Yeah.
How does it come to you?
Yeah, well, I asked that question.
Like, you know, something to the effect
of is this where I'm meant to be today,
or even like, what do I focus on today?
And I use, taro carts or a big part
of my own , practice around that.
Maybe it's, you know, a meditative kind of
space too, of just creating that quiet for
even, you know, a minute in the morning.
The breath of fresh air.
Yeah.
It's it gives you space.
It sounds like.
Yeah.
And then even in these doubts of like
the mental chatter, that's like this
isn't gonna work or like, what do you
mean you're trying to do this thing.,
just reconnecting with the intuition is
helpful to stay on track with even, you
know, whatever it is, whatever task that.
Or projects, you know, bigger things,
even relationships that I'm focused on
in the moment of saying like, I'm, am I
on my path with this particular thing?
Yeah.
But often I just kind of leave it
open, you know, to be honest, like
it's more like, where's my focus today.
and I'd say over the past few months,
it really has been mostly work related.
When I look at the taro
cards that come up.
So that kind of takes me back
to like, okay, here's the path.
And these other things
are probably peripheral.
And some of them seem to be grabbing a lot
of my thoughts or my energy, but like if
I just sit here in the quiet and listen to
my intuition, then this is the part where.
My energy feels like drawn
to, and, it's very reassuring.
It's very reassuring.
Yeah.
It's reassuring.
Yeah.
And I hear you do something
that I don't think we often
acknowledge is singularly focusing.
So when you said, oh, I acknowledge the.
TA reading to be focused on work.
We don't try to make it about
everything else in our life.
And I think I I've seen that
with the expression of my work is
we try to think that one square
peg is gonna fit everything.
Be it work related, relational
related self-esteem related.
And what I'm hearing in such
a breath of fresh air is.
No, I'm gonna trust that it's this, and
I'm not gonna try to make sense of it in
other realms, if that doesn't feel right.
Yeah, exactly.
What do you know as the
medicine relationship?
How do you make the medicine relat?
How do you create that with yourself?
How do you know when to use it?
How do you know when to put it down?
Yeah , I like that you use the word
relationship cuz that as you start
to ask the question, because my mind
kind of works in this like high speed
sometimes was like, it's a relationship.
Right?
So it is, and it's like
really just tapping into the
intuition with it as well.
And I'd say, I, it's, it's fairly
rare that I microdose ayin, you
know, and by rare, I mean maybe a
couple times every six weeks or so, I
don't really, , heed the very strict
protocols that have been developed
and, with my own process of, , having.
People that I work with and physicians
helping me with my own health and mental
health, , we've figured out what is
a good and, and all of that is, you
know, a good frequency for me, but,
but ultimately it is intuition and
how I'm feeling, you know, for me, I
use it more for like dips in my mood.
Sure.
But also, if I do have time and it's
a we weekend or something, and I
want to be like more specifically
intentional, more so than on the mood
level of looking for some guidance
around a particular issue in my life.
I will use it in that way too.
So it really is a relationship.
And, and again, tapping into
that intuition of asking, like,
is this, is this the time.
Yeah.
And I think in that space, it's such
a beautiful expression because we're
not leaning on it like a crutch.
We're not overexposing its use.
And, and without sounding too
prudent, it's like fostering a
consensual relationship with, yeah.
I I'm looking for some sport
and guidance and other times
I need to do this on my own.
And I'm okay with that.
Exactly.
I love it.
Speak to me a little bit
about this idea of the homage.
What have you learned from this medicine?
What what's come about in your life?
You speak so much about the spectrum of
everything that is abundant in your life.
How do you pay respect to
what the medicines taught you?
Hmm.
I don't know if I really even like paused.
Think about that so much I will say I
have over the last week or so, I actually
became aware of another resource that
I have been offering my clients in
terms of how to access some of these
medicines, because, a lot of these blends
are like the microdosing of psilocybin.
Has of course like, the
legal things around it.
And so I can't, for instance myself, give
it to my clients,, but it's something
I just, I guess I, what I've been
recognizing is that is just coming to
the forefront so much more and really,
making itself, Present and available
in ways that haven't existed before.
And so I feel like that in a way is
perhaps what it is that there's, the
spiritual, presence to the medicines
themselves becoming more available, that,
that this is like a natural progression.
And so looking at that as this, Bigger
picture of where the potential is.
As people start to become, more aware
that this is an option for so many
different, experiences to help heal
people and, a lot of different ways.
Yeah.
I love the idea of it being used
for so many different aspects.
Creative.
Trauma healing self-expression and
to come full circle back to how you
found this, the recreational aspect, it
doesn't mean that's bad either, right?
It's this idea of how you can come
to terms with both walk with both.
Yeah.
And, recreational, it just sounds like,
you know, re recreational can be like a
very deep experience as well, I guess.
And also what you're.
Commenting on there too, that it's
not, you know, it often does like
foster these deep relationships with
self and, and, those are perhaps
more spontaneous because you're not
necessarily setting the intention
prior as to, you know, guiding the
experience to be one of like, Relational
connection or whatever it might be, but
it, , but again, those are all, yeah.
I potentials.
Tell me more about that, because
your wisdom in that is being said, so
clearly this idea that the spontaneous
catalyst of a recreational experience
could really heal you just as much as
intentionally lying on a mat or doing
it with so much reverence there's.
So often the reverence kind of gets
in the way doesn't it, where, right.
Like it has to have
this like, huge meaning.
And, you're like striving
so much for this.
Like what is this medicine teaching me?
And.
You come out of it perhaps.
And it's like, I don't know
what I, what happened with that.
and, and, you know, a lot of times that
isn't the case of course, but , but that
type of like very expansive experience
can happen for a lot of people.
And does within these.
Kind of like happenstance experiences
of like, oh, we were in the forest and
this isn't my experience, but I'm just
using this as an example of like, yeah.
And I really connected with the world
around me and felt this deep connection
with this friend or this person that I
met that wasn't, you know, just these
experiences that line up and, and then,
you know, the process of like making.
What that meaning is,
is really significant.
I think that's the most valuable part
too, is making sure you don't dismiss
the meaning of that wonderful connection
just because of how it came to us.
Right.
I love it.
And really at the end of any experience,
perhaps this isn't, there isn't
that distinction necessarily between
recreational and very intentional.
You know, if the integration
piece is there, it's like, there's
always the learning about the self.
Yeah.
Tell me more about that, cuz I think
that's super important to give space
and air to, is this idea of, does the
distinction between recreational or
therapeutic use or intentional use need
to be so hard and Fastly wired to us?
Or what do you see on the other
end of it then as I hear you
talking about this, it seems.
Super important.
I, yeah, just thinking about that, I
think it's so individual and, you know,
perhaps there are individuals who are
gonna feel, you know, safer and more
expansive in more of a kind of controlled
setting that they feel like they have
a set guide and, and other people might
just dive into it more on, on their own.
but.
You know, that period of reflection
afterward, I think is the important
piece where we're perhaps, I mean,
in the more controlled setting,
that's, that's usually set up in a
way that people are getting that post
experience support and, and in the
recreational sense, probably not so much.
So, so that's where like,
if people are having.
A lot of challenging experiences that
are then impacting their day to day life.
Like that's the piece where they could
benefit from that reflection and really
get guidance around, , what might
be a, a, you know, how to change the
relationship with these substances
that are very powerful, to best serve.
What that person is looking for.
Yeah.
And, you know, it's like people
come to it through like a
recreational way when really like
it's, it is a relationship, right?
So the medicine is coming to them
and it's, I mean, I could say that
for myself too, like that came
to me and then what did I learn?
, and at some point it
was like, this is not.
Helping me right now.
And thank you for those lessons,
but do using the medicine in
this way is not serving me.
Right., and that, you know, that is very
individual, but, but that's part of it
too, is just really assigning that meaning
to whatever experience is happening.
In and of itself, I think is what
we're also coming up against not to
get existential, but this idea of
the more and more people I'm talking
to, I'm recognizing they're actually
putting it down and letting it sit on
the altar or put it and, and waiting
for the invitation to do it rather
than just like, bang it out on this.
Like you said earlier, this protocol
that we're expected to do to
get some sort of attainment and.
On the country.
I'm hearing you say something
necessary, which is let's have
a relational conversation with
it and not do it all the time.
Right.
Because it definitely , like
anything can be overused.
And usually that's coming, not from
our intuition, but our mind directing.
Us to, you know, have this,
like you were saying this, these
attainment kinds of experience,
like, oh, I, now I did iowaska.
Now I've done it like five times
now I got this, I got that.
Rather than,, all the integration
pieces of like, how did that, how is.
Transferring into my life
or my relationships or my
experience with myself.
Self-esteem all, trauma processing,
these things that you talked about, it's
sort of the outset of our conversation.
Yeah.
I don't see, grandmother iowaska
having some gold stars for the
people that do six cups, 10 cups.
right.
Quite the contrary.
Yeah.
Were there ways that you're walking
with gentleness for yourself as you
work with this life experience that
we have this embodied experience,
how are you walking with gentleness?
So for myself in my life
right now, I'm very busy.
I'm a very full life.
And so I'd say I'm.
Carving out time to rest and be outside
and just take care of the more fundamental
kind of basic needs of , my body and
, and just, you know, taking care of myself,
resting is just a big piece right now.
Fantastic.
It's so necessary.
Thank you so much.
I am so profoundly
grateful for your wisdom.
I admire your courage and the
transparency you show me each and
every time we connect is so refreshing.
Yeah.
Thank you, Ryan.
It's been great to have
this conversation today and.
Great to share, my own stories.
And, I look forward to hearing more as
you have more of these talks with people,
cuz I think it's important for people
can always relate to what they hear.
You find these relational
pieces in, in everyone's story.
So that's really meaningful to me.