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"A LOT with Audra" is the podcast for women juggling big dreams and full lives. Each episode, host, Audra Dinell, Midwestern wife, mom and neurodivergent multi-six figure entrepreneur encourages women to embrace their many roles holistically by living a values-based life with confidence and joy. Through candid discussions, practical strategies and inspiring stories, this podcast is your guide to designing and achieving success without losing yourself in the process.
Ep94
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Big Career Announcement
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[00:00:00]
Audra Dinell: [00:01:00] Hey, friends. Welcome back to A Lot with Audra. I have some news to share, and I will do a full episode on it later. But for now, I'm really excited to let you know that as of October, I've stepped into a new role as the CEO of the Women's Network.
And yes, I'm still leading the thread, but I'm doing exactly what I have talked about doing on this show for almost two years now: walking into new spaces where I don't have it all figured out, but choosing to show up brave anyway. And that really got me thinking. Over the last 93 episodes, you and I have collected so much wisdom from incredible women and men and from my own messy, honest moments.
Some of it I need to hear again right now, and so maybe you do too.
Season of Curated Themes
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Audra Dinell: [00:02:00] So for the remainder of the year, we're doing something a little different. Every week, my podcast team is pulling together the moments from the show that have stuck out the most, organized all around a theme. So every week we'll have a different theme.
Some are gonna be from guests that you remember. Some clips are from me. Some are way back from the beginning. Think of it as a curated season finale of common threads. Mm. So good.
Show Up Bracelet Story
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Audra Dinell: We're starting with the theme that started it all, showing up messy. Back in episode three, I told you about the bracelet I wore almost every day while I was building the thread.
It had two words on it, show up. Listeners have mentioned that episode to me more than any other, so it's the perfect place to start. Here's a little blast from the past from January 2025
Right now I'm doing a podcast and I'm public speaking, and I'm on social [00:03:00] media and hosting events regularly. But when I first started The Thread, I was so scared to start my Instagram account. I grabbed this handle, The Thread, WLC for Women's Leadership Collective, and I remember the first post being something around my branding or kind of like a coming soon teaser, and I was sitting on my couch in my living room after the kids had gone to bed, and I pushed, you know, publish on the first Instagram post, and I remember just being like, "I'm gonna throw up."
It is so scary to put yourself out there. It is so scary to go for your dreams. And I'm no stranger to social media, and I wasn't back then. In fact, in 2013, I started a social media company. But then fast-forward to 2020, and I'm pushing [00:04:00] post on my first post on my social media account for The Thread, this business that I'm so excited about, I'm so passionate about, and I felt like I was gonna puke.
I felt completely naked, couldn't sleep that night. I mean, just the vulnerability is so real So I share that to start because no matter, I think, how much success you're having, it always feels scary to take the next step. But the next step is ultimately what is going to bring you the success that you're looking for.
So in 2021, as I was building my business, I bought this bracelet, and it is, uh, Tiny Words Project, I think is the name of the bracelet. And I was shopping at a local boutique, and it just caught my eye, and it said those two words. It said, "Show [00:05:00] up." And I remember thinking, "That is what I need to hear every single day."
And so for almost a year, I wore that bracelet nonstop because I just needed this reminder to show up.
Comfort Zone Lessons
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It's easier to stay in your comfort zone. It's easier to not go to the networking event. It's easier to be quiet when you have something to say versus risk saying a thing that may or may not be well received.
It's easier to not show up. But when you're doing something like building a business or following your dreams, no matter if that is a business that you're building or another dream you have, showing up is required. And it seems like such basic advice, but I mean, really think about it. It is hard to show up, and so many people don't show up.
And [00:06:00] I will say, I have totally been one of those people before. Back in high school, I was a competitive cheerleader and went on to cheer in college. When I was cheering in college, I was not on, let's say, the A squad. But I did get an invite from the coach to practice with the A squad collegiate cheerleading athletes, and I didn't show up.
I remember thinking, "Eh, I'm one of the better people on the, the B squad. This is super comfortable. I like the position that I have. I don't wanna waste their time. I don't wanna be the worst person in the room. I don't wanna make a fool of myself." And it's just so funny because, like thinking back to those thoughts, those are very real thoughts that apply to many of us today in our professions or whatever dreams we're building, whether it's a, a professional dream or, or not.
It's so easy [00:07:00] to like let that self-doubt creep in and let all the excuses, and even make those excuses about someone else, right? Like, "Oh, I don't wanna waste their time." It's so easy to want to be the smartest person in the room, right? But the rooms that are the most valuable to be in are those rooms where you feel least qualified to be So I started out at one college.
After a couple of years, I transferred to another college. That's the college where I was a collegiate cheerleader, and didn't accept the invite to practice with the A squad. Come tryout time, I totally messed up on my tryouts. I mean, and, and that doesn't happen very often. I don't get that sort of like stage fright where I just like totally freeze, but I did that time, and I didn't make the A squad.
So this was, I don't know, however many years ago. 15 years ago. 10 years ago. Wait, how, how long was that? Gosh, 20 years ago? Somewhere in there. Fast-forward at least a [00:08:00] decade and a half, and I am moderating a panel on stage at my community's location of the Global Leadership Summit. I feel so honored to have this opportunity.
The leaders I am interviewing are phenomenal leaders in our community. And I run into the old cheerleading coach, and I pulled him aside and I said, "Hey, it's been so long. How are you? I have to tell you this. I learned such a lesson from you. You invited me into this space where maybe I didn't quite belong yet, but you saw the potential in me.
You invited me in, and I chose not to show up. But I will tell you, it took me several more years to learn this lesson, but it started with you, and I never not showed up for myself again. I moved back to my hometown. I'm starting this business. [00:09:00] I've achieved some success per my own standards, and I learned so much from you.
And now I show up
Confidence Starts Within
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Audra Dinell: Self-trust came up again and again on this show, so I wanted you to hear from therapist and confident coach Emily Stevens on where confidence actually starts and spoiler alert, it's not faking it
Okay, so what if someone is sitting here listening to this podcast and they are like, "I'm starting from square one. This sounds great, but I lack confidence like crazy. Like, where do I even start?" What would you say? I love this question because it has been studied that the biggest indicator of self-esteem or your self-worth, your value, and we're kind of grouping that into confidence, is self-compassion.
Mm. So literally, the nicer you are ... I'm getting goosebumps saying this. The nicer you are to yourself, the more confident you [00:10:00] will be. I'm gonna say it again because people are gonna be like, "Nah, that doesn't apply to me." I've, I've talked to enough people, enough women to know that they're like, "Well, yeah, of course.
Like, I would never say what I'm thinking in my head to my friend because they don't deserve that, but I do," right? Like, "I'm the exception to kindness." No, you're not. You are not the exception to kindness. And the kinder you are to yourself, the more confident you will be. So there's two parts of this, and this is what I would say to anybody who's like, "How can I be more confident today?"
I would say start being nicer to yourself, right? And do that in a way that is speaking out loud. So if that's affirmations, if that's just coaching yourself, if that's just saying in your car, "I'm okay," a million times on your way to, like, a presentation. Our brains- take in information differently when we say it out loud.
It, like, activates different parts of our brain, and your brain will believe something faster if you're saying it out loud. So be nicer to yourself, and honestly start talking to yourself in a kind way. [00:11:00] I talk to myself all the time. Just recently, I don't even know what I was saying, but my husband came in and I didn't realize he was in the room, and he kinda laughed, and then I realized he was there.
And I was like, "What?" And he was like, "I just love when you talk to yourself." And I was like, "I do it all the time, don't I?" And he's like, "Yep." I love it. But it truly does help you. It's almost like talk therapy. Obviously, you're not getting the feedback. You're not getting that challenging or affirmation, but it helps you to ch- rewire your brain to be more positive about yourself.
Mm-hmm. And that is the basis of self-worth. If you can do anything for yourself, it's be nicer to yourself. Oh, I've got so many things to say. I find a lot of women come to the thread, and one of their strengths is empathy. Uh-huh. Women are so good at- Yeah ... relationships and relating to others and carrying the load.
And they share that, and this is generalizing, but- Yeah ... many of them share that they struggle with doing that for themselves. So I know you [00:12:00] are ... I've seen it in my work. You've seen it in your work. Mm-hmm. You are right on that many women believe self-com- or many women practice compassion, but self-compassion can be the hardest for them.
Yeah. And I love how you say, "Be kinder to yourself." One way that I know I have done that is really becoming aware of my thoughts- Yes ... as much as possible. Yes. I feel like this is lifelong work. Mm-hmm. I don't feel like anyone ever, like, nails it. No, not at all. I hear all of my thoughts that I tell myself.
Yeah. It's just about, like, how quick can you catch them? Yeah. The addition I wanna add is doing more talking out loud to myself because I feel like I am self-compassionate. Mm-hmm. I feel like I love myself well, and it has taken years of work to get there. Yeah. But when you can be a person who- loves yourself well, it's easier to give yourself compassion.
Yes. Not all the time. Sure. Not every situation. I still have situations where I find myself [00:13:00] beating myself up later, and then I surround myself, my husband will say, you know, "Give yourself some grace." Yeah. And I'm like, "Oh, yeah, 'cause I always tell you that, huh?" Yeah, exactly. You know? But I remember there being a time in my life where I would look in the mirror, and for some reason I was just challenging myself to tell myself I loved myself in the mirror.
And like look at myself- Uh-huh ... look in my eyes and say- Yeah ... "I love you." And I remember when that would just elicit like tears and just so much. Yes, yes. And after doing this for so long, it's like I can look myself in the mirror and say, "I love you." Mm-hmm. And just really get it. Yeah. And feel that. Feel it.
Yeah. Yeah. And just feel, feel thankful. And part of that is the saying it out loud. It's different than if you just say it in your mind. So the out loud part is important. But also, if you're somebody listening and you're like, "Oh, my gosh, saying I love you to myself is like so far away from where I am," just start with neutrality.
Start with, "I'm okay with myself." Mm. Like, you don't even have to... Like, some people jumping to I love myself is just too far. That's [00:14:00] too out of the realm of even possibility. They're just like, "No, that's never gonna happen for me." Mm. Just say, "I am okay with myself." That's so good. Yeah. You don't have to love yourself necessarily right out the gate, or say that if that doesn't feel authentic to you.
Start with something that's just neutral, but isn't disparaging, that isn't putting yourself down. That's gonna be a huge change alone for a lot of people. Yeah. I love that. That's such a good point.
Beyond Fake It
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Okay, so- We have talked about what confidence is, why it matters, maybe how to build it if you're starting from scratch.
What about this thought of faking it till you make it? Can you give us your take on fake it till you make it? Yeah. So I think fake it till you make it comes usually with a lot of good intentions, right? I think it's kind of like one of those, like, doctor's room almost, like, posters. Like, be yourself. Be authentic.
It's like, what does that even mean? Like, that is ... That should be, like, on my tombstone. What [00:15:00] does that mean? Because I feel like I ask that all the time, because you have to define things more to understand. So I think when people say fake it till you make it, it comes from a place that is actually has good intentions, but it doesn't address the lack of confidence.
It doesn't help anybody get any closer to what does confidence mean to you. It doesn't help you actually implement tools and skills to actually change your confidence. Now, there's a caveat here in that, let's say I'm gonna start ... You wanna start being a speaker, okay? And speaking kind of scares you some.
So there is an element of acting as if you're a huge speaker, right? There's a little bit of, quote, unquote, "faking it till you make it." Like, walking out on stage, like giving yourself the courage. But there's so much more work to be done that just going through life thinking, "I'm gonna be more confident if I just keep faking it," i- it, you're just gonna stay in the same boat, because you're not actually changing anything.
You're just, like, putting a Band-Aid over a wound, and we need to, [00:16:00] like, actually heal the wound. Mm. That's good. I heard someone once say, "Instead of fake it till you make it- Mm-hmm ... face it till you make it." I actually first heard that from you, and I love that. I think that that's, again, it's still kind of like one of those, like, little sayings that doesn't help us really define or implement tools, but I think that's great.
Well, and for me, when I'm facing it, it's like I am ... Okay, you wanna be a speaker. You wanna be a, on stage at the Global Leadership Summit. Uh-huh. You know, that's a audacious goal of mine. Uh-huh. It's like, who is that person? What is that person doing today to- Yes ... prepare for that? Yes. You know, and maybe I'm not writing my speech because I don't have the contract, but maybe I am recording a podcast.
Yes. Or maybe I am, you know, just putting in the work to do research on what those speakers who are already there, what are their backgrounds like? And- That's kind of what I think of when- Uh-huh ... I'm facing something. Yes, yes. [00:17:00] Like embodying who I will need to be when I am there. Absolutely. And that's why I think the shift from fake it to face it, because the other thing with fake it, it still kind of gives you the implication in your brain that you're still not the thing.
Yeah. That you have to fake it. Mm-hmm. And so that also is not... I always talk about if our brain is a garden, are you watering the weeds or are you watering the flowers? Mm. And faking it till you make it is still telling your brain, "We're not that thing. We're not gonna be that thing. We have to fake it."
Where face it makes you ask yourself different questions. You're like, "Oh, what would that version of Audra, what would she be doing now to prep to be that person?" And that's just a total mindset shift. Mm.
Second Chance Entrepreneurship
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Audra Dinell: My friend Jenna Bottolfsen left corporate HR in February 2020 to start her own business a month before the whole world shut down, and her first leap into entrepreneurship didn't exactly go the way she planned.
Here's what she learned and what happened when the opportunity came back [00:18:00] around
So you have been on such a journey since I have known you, and where you were when we met versus where you are now. Will you just kinda take us through that timeline? Yeah. So it was COVID, and I, not knowing the future, I had left my corporate role, corporate identity, and really took that first entrepreneurial leap.
So in February of 2020, I went and got certified as a business coach and did all the stuff. I went to Denver for a week, came back, and then we all know what happened March 13th of 2020. Yeah. The world shut down, and I had three kids in school and, you know, I just think things work for the right reason. I was, I was trying to start this business.
It didn't really go as planned, but it, I was in the right place for that season because I had a second grader trying to do school from home. Yeah. And so then I really worked at that for about a year and then went back to corporate [00:19:00] HR because it was just the right thing to do, and I remember telling my husband, "It's not never that I will do, you know, my own thing.
It's just not right now." Yeah. So then fast-forward, the boys were out of school, kind of on their own, you know, doing their own thing, off our payroll pretty much. Yeah. And a new opportunity came to me which was almost kind of through you again. It was just so funny. Chris Wallace, who owned Wallace Associates, and I had referred employees to her when they got laid off, both a long time ago and then in my corporate career, and we were at a thread mentoring event and having cocktails at Belmont, and she said, "Girl, I am in my 70s, and I don't wanna do this anymore.
I'd love to find someone to buy my business." And I just, my heart exploded, and I said, "I always wanted to be you when I grew up." I do too. And she laughed at me. And she laughed at me, and she said, "Well, let's start talking." So it was [00:20:00] about a year that we had coffee and kind of talked about the transition and how that would work, and so now, as of May 2026, it'll be open three years under me.
Congratulations. So yeah. So helping people figure out their c- career trajectory, and what to do after layoffs, and what to do when they wanna change, and I mean, it just feels like the exact right place because I've always, you know, been on the other side of recruiting, so I feel like I can bring a different perspective.
But I mean, it's just exactly where I wanted to be at this stage of my life. So I love so many different things about your story, and one of the first is you left this identity that you'd had for decades to take a leap of faith on yourself, and it didn't work out. And most people, or some people could think, you know, that's the end, but it really isn't if you don't let it.
Oh, no. And just, [00:21:00] like, your resilience through that and doing what you needed to do at home and back in your vocation until the time and the opportunity was right. And I feel like you walked with such grace through the whole- Oh ... season. And so to see you in the role that you were meant to do, three years in business, that's such an accomplishment, and I think just such a testimony to people who have tried something and it didn't work out, but it's still, like, on their heart.
Mm-hmm. Like, you can try again. Oh, yeah. I think every... And I wouldn't even wanna use the word failure, but every, everything is a learning opportunity. Like, I mean, could my first attempt at entrepreneurship have worked? Maybe, but it was COVID, so you know, I, I don't even... There was lots of lessons. I learned how easy it was.
I learned it's not as scary as it seems to start a business. It's not as scary as it seems to put yourself out there, and it really [00:22:00] wasn't as scary as it seemed to let go of that corporate identity. Mm. Because yes, for so long it was like, "Okay, I wanna be the leader. I wanna be the manager. I wanna be the director.
I wanna be the C-suite" and that's what I thought was the path. And no, I'm gonna start over and I'm gonna be the newest or the first or the freshest or the whatever, and it was, it wasn't as scary as I thought. You know, I, I, I debate with people a lot about what comes first, courage or action, and you know, sometimes I think it's one or the other, but I really do think taking those steps is what gives you the courage to keep going.
Yeah. You know, on that courage versus action thought, those two also, when I think about those two words, I also think about confidence. A lot of times in my life, my confidence has come from taking imperfect action. Yes. And I think for me it's like that three-step process of like I have to just have a sliver of [00:23:00] courage.
Like I'm still scared- Yeah ... but I'm gonna do the thing, but I'm not gonna need to be courageous for like- Two hours, I'm going to need to be courageous for 20 minutes and hit send on the email or walk into the event where I don't know anyone or- Yeah ... you know, just that crazy courage for a short burst of time because then that's kind of rolling you into the action.
And if you do that on repeat- Mm-hmm ... for me, that's been a huge recipe for confidence. I mean, we can talk about confidence coming from multiple different things, but I love, I just love that thought that you work with people on. Oh, I- I- it's funny, and I probably heard it from you years ago, but I use it all the time with clients and just say, "I know it feels a little scary to reach out to someone at a company where you wanna apply for a job, but it takes five seconds of insane courage to type that email and send it off or to reach out and say, 'Hey, I'm interested in a [00:24:00] role.'"
And i- that's what I say. You don't have to have courage forever- Yeah ... or for two hours, just five seconds of insane courage to push the send- Yeah ... button or walk in the door or shake the hand or look them in the eye, and then the courage will come
Five Seconds of Courage
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Audra Dinell: And finally, a little pep talk I recorded this summer that I need to hear again myself.
Over the past week in my world, I've had the same conversation with different women multiple times, and that is this: they have a dream. They know what they want to do. They have their heart set on a thing. And when I ask them about their next step or their timeline or financing if it's a business, I've been getting the same answer, and that answer is, [00:25:00] "Now is not the right time," or, "Maybe in five years," or something that feels safe.
And I want to challenge us, myself included. When we are clear on what we really want, what we want to go do in the world We have to do the thing. And here's what I mean by that. If you know what your dream is, the most dangerous place for that dream to be, to live, is inside your mind, or inside your Canva account, or inside your journal, or inside the Notes app on your phone.
And here's why I believe that is the most dangerous place for that dream to live. Because you've been audacious enough to, like, claim that dream for yourself already. You've written it down, or you've taken some level of action on it. However, [00:26:00] the action you have taken on it is not associated with any sort of risk.
And so when we let these dreams stay in the danger zones, not associated with any risk, they can be perfect. They can be perfect. We haven't put them out there into the world yet. We haven't had to work on our messy first draft. They can be perfect in our Notes app, in our mind, in our Canva account. But the thing is, if you actually truly have this dream and want to do the thing, you need to take one messy, risky action step.
It doesn't have to be big. You don't have to know the whole plan, but you do have to do something bold, something that makes your stomach feel a little [00:27:00] anxious. Here's a tip. If you're in that place, I want to challenge you to shorten that timeline. And listen, I am just coming here today being a person who has been in this over and over again.
If you know what the thing is and you're clear on what you wanna do, shorten the timeline. You don't need five years. What can you do in the next year? When we're sitting here in June of 2027, what could you have done on the thing? So I think sometimes we pick these long timelines because, you know, we're trying to be realistic, right?
But when it comes to chasing dreams, when it comes to putting something out in the world, reality has its place. There are finances to consider and seasons of life But that should not be the only thing that has its place. You are [00:28:00] going to want to tap into that bold, audacious part of yourself to get it out there, even if it feels maybe a little unrealistic.
And here's why. Because it's not gonna be perfect. It's gonna be messy. It's gonna get criticized, but you'll never get it out into the world and actually get it into motion if it stays in this perfect zone of in five years or in Canva. Now, here's the thing. You might not know what that thing is. You might feel a stirring and, like, a, a belief that something is coming, but you just don't have it really, really clear, and that's okay.
I think that there's a messy middle to the creative process that sometimes we just have to sit in, and it sucks. I, myself, have had something brewing. You know, you've followed me listening to the [00:29:00] podcast, and that was my messy draft, getting action out into the world before I actually knew where I wanted to go with it.
That was my experiment. But if you don't have clarity on the thing, I do think you have to have patience, and you have to keep the motion going. You have to keep taking next steps, but you also have to release the timeline because until you are clear on what it is that you want to do, you want to put out into the world, who you wanna be, that's part of the process.
Sitting in the mess, taking a step, taking another one, maybe taking a couple steps back because that was the wrong direction, asking questions, experimenting. It's kind of a slug. As someone who really, really likes a clear vision for her life and her vocation, I get it. It is a slug to be in the [00:30:00] messy middle and not have clarity.
But when you get that clarity, gosh, it is your responsibility to take some risky action, to maybe shorten your timeline, to push yourself to, step by step, put a thing out into the world That isn't gonna be perfect, that may be criticized, but that is the dream of your heart. And here's why I think this is so important.
I always think about the quote from The Top Five Regrets of the Dying by Bonnie Ware. Is it Ware? Is it Wear? I don't know. The quote is, "I wish I'd had the courage to live a life that is true to myself, not the life others expected of me." And I think this is exactly what she's talking about. If you know what you want, you have to go for it.
That doesn't mean it's gonna work out. That doesn't gonna mean it gets to be [00:31:00] your job. Maybe it ends up just being a thing you do because it makes you feel alive, and it's a hobby. But it's your job to try because I don't know about you, but the one feeling I do not want to battle with is regret that I could have avoided
Your Turn to Show Up
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Audra Dinell: So here's my question for you this week, the same one I asked almost two years ago: Where is it that you need to show up for yourself now?
Maybe it's the networking event you keep skipping. Maybe it's the email you've written and rewritten and never send. Maybe it's the dream that's been living in your notes app for way too long. Whatever it is, you don't need courage forever. You just need it for five seconds. I'd love to hear where you're showing up this week.
Come find me on Instagram @audradinell and send me a DM. I read every one and try very hard to be timely, although I'm not gonna lie, that part doesn't always happen. Next [00:32:00] week, we're talking about second acts, women who've proven it's never too late to start something new, to wake up and choose different.
Thank you for being here and for showing up for yourself. I'll see you next week