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Hosted by Steve Phipps of Wayfind Marketing, The Growth-Minded Marketing Podcast simplifies marketing for B2B CEOs ready to grow with confidence. Each episode offers real-world strategies, step-by-step coaching, and inspiring CEO interviews—all designed to help you align your marketing with your business goals, stop wasting time and money, and scale without the stress. If you’re a growth-minded leader tired of vague advice and underperforming tactics, this is your next step.
Steve: Would you rather get 1000 likes
or 10 qualified sales conversations?
AnnieLaurie: And how will you know
which one matters more when AI search
is cutting into your website traffic?
Steve: We talk with CEOs regularly
who are putting time and money and
energy into their marketing, but.
When we ask how it's performing, a lot
of times it's just kind of a blank look.
Or we might hear things about
how many page views they have
or how many likes they get.
Maybe it's impressions,
AnnieLaurie: which all that's great if
you're running a popularity contest.
But if you're trying to grow your business
and close deals, those metrics won't
really tell you what you need to know.
Steve: Now those metrics have their
place, but with things like the
rise of ai, search engines such as
chat, GPT, and perplexity, a lot of
times people aren't even visiting
websites the way they used to.
They're getting answers straight
from ai, and that means your website
traffic is probably already dropped,
even if you have good content.
AnnieLaurie: That's a huge shift, which is
why understanding what to track and what
not to track is more important than ever.
Steve: So today we are pulling
back the curtain on marketing data.
What's worth tracking?
What's just noise, and how to know
whether or not your marketing is actually
moving the needle for your business.
AnnieLaurie: This is one of
those episodes that'll save you
a lot of time and a lot of money,
Steve: and a lot of frustration.
AnnieLaurie: Welcome back
to Growth Minded Marketing.
I'm Annie Laurie Walters.
Steve: And I'm Steve Phipps.
AnnieLaurie: This is the show
for growth minded CEOs and their
teams who want to lead with
clarity and scale with confidence.
We simplify marketing and equip you
with frameworks and strategies to grow
your company and your team with purpose.
Steve: And today we're talking about
something that shows up in just about
every marketing meeting, campaign report,
and pitch decks, and that is metrics.
AnnieLaurie: Metrics aren't
all created equal, are they?
Steve: No, they are not.
And, and so let's talk about
what, what are vanity metrics?
And in short, those are the numbers
that a lot of times can make you feel
good and that a lot of times marketing
agencies and marketers like to point
out, but they don't actually tell you
whether or not your marketing's working.
AnnieLaurie: What are some common example?
Steve: So before I give these
examples again, let me qualify here.
These metrics have their places.
But what we want to do is really rifle in
on what are really your, your KPIs, your
key performance indicators, your CEO, you
are busy, so what are the numbers that
you need to know so that you understand
whether or not your marketing is working.
So some of this, some of the metrics
that we would say are vanity metrics
that when they're looked at just in and
of themselves, don't really tell you
anything, but they might sound good.
It could be things such as your
website, traffic, how many visits you
had last month, the number of likes
and shares and followers on LinkedIn
or Facebook page views, impressions.
And again, they can have their value,
but not if they're in a vacuum,
AnnieLaurie: Right, because these
kind of metrics can just become.
High traffic numbers without
any conversions to back them up.
So yeah, you're right.
You want to have a lot of website traffic.
You want people sharing your posts.
You want the follower account to
be going up, but you really need
to have some sort of dotted line
from those metrics to conversion.
Otherwise, how do you know that all
that activity and all that effort
and all that manpower that you're
putting behind your marketing is, is
actually growing your business or not?
You need to have that connection.
Steve: Yeah, absolutely.
As a CEO, you want to know what's your
ROI because otherwise these numbers
make it look like things are good and
busy, but it's not building a pipeline.
And so that's the key difference,
knowing the results versus
just seeing busy activity.
AnnieLaurie: Steve, what's a quick test?
The CEO could use to know if a
metric is actually helping them
grow their business or just making
their marketing team look busy?
Steve: Does it help you make
better decisions about how you're
going to invest your dollars?
So that you can get more business.
That would be something that you would
want to look at because ultimately,
if you can't draw it back to either
revenue generated, ultimately that's it.
Can you draw that back to some sort of
revenue generated so that you can then
correlate it back to the investment
you're making in the marketing?
Because if it's not netting an ROI, you
might be getting results that's costing
you money and costing your profit.
Yeah, that's.
AnnieLaurie: That's a good test.
And, a lot of people right now
are using AI tools to create a
lot of content really fast and the
internet is now flooded with, 20 x
the amount of blog posts that weren't
there a year or two years ago.
And we were talking about how
just flooding your website with
blog posts without a strategy
is kind of a waste of time.
And I think that even just saying, oh,
well our team publishes 50 blog posts
a month can become a vanity metric if
you're just posting content to check a box
Steve: E.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Because.
We've seen situations before
where people were creating content
that the search engines liked.
It was getting clicks,
they were getting traffic.
People were spending time reading
the articles, but it wasn't
aligned with their audience.
It wasn't aligned with their strategy.
So yes, website traffic was really
high, but when we started digging
in, it wasn't generating any leads.
And so that's where having
that connection, great.
You have website traffic, how many
leads is that actually generating?
How many of those leads are then
converting into opportunities
and ultimately into customers?
So another question to consider
here is, instead of vanity metrics,
which again have their place as
a CEO, what should you track?
Instead how do you know what matters?
Ultimately, it means you're tracking
data that's connected to actual outcomes,
leads, generated appointments scheduled,
looking at what your conversion rates
are, how many of your leads that come
in through ads are converting into
appointments, and then ultimately
customers you're looking at how many
qualified leads, if you're using m qls
and SQLs, how many are being generated?
And again, ultimately, how
many deals are being closed,
AnnieLaurie: right?
You wanna know if your marketing is
attracting the right people and moving
them forward in the buyer's journey.
Steve: Here's a good
way to think about it.
What actions do I want people
to take, and am I measuring
whether or not they take them?
So, for instance, we want people to
schedule a demo or we want people
to schedule a free consultation.
Great.
One, is your website clear that
that's what you want them to do?
And then are you measuring
whether or not they are?
AnnieLaurie: And we talk a lot
about the transitional offer too.
That's another really great metric to
measure if you know the person's not ready
to, to schedule a call, if you've got that
helpful resource that they can download
in exchange for the email address.
Like those are the kind
of numbers you wanna try
Steve: E.
Exactly.
Exactly.
AnnieLaurie: Because if you're not
tracking the right data, then you can't
really optimize what you're doing and
ultimately you're just kind of guessing
Steve: And so when you can see the
metrics, when you can see what's working
and what's not, that is what then
allows you to make those adjustments.
Maybe it's changing the
color of the button.
Maybe it's changing, , the words
on the page at the top of the page.
Again, you move things around.
The metrics are what tell
you your conversion rate.
That's gonna tell you whether
or not it's achieving the goal.
That those are the kinds of things that
can help you generate a positive ROI.
But if you're not measuring
it, you're not gonna see that.
I would say too, that it ties
back to, our guide framework.
Where the E stands for evaluate
and adjust and you can't adjust
what you're not measuring.
You can't evaluate it
just based on gut feel.
AnnieLaurie: If you're new to our podcast
and this is your first episode, we talk a
lot about our guide marketing framework.
It's the foundation for how we help
CEOs and their teams build clear
strategic marketing plans that
actually support business growth.
Steve, tell us more about
what Guide stands for.
Steve: So G stands for Generate
Your Story and Strategy U is for
upgrade your online presence.
I is informed with content.
D is develop and execute your sales
plan, and E is evaluate and adjust,
AnnieLaurie: and we have an entire podcast
series on the guide marketing framework.
We will link in the show notes that
you can go back and listen to, but
ultimately it's a roadmap to ensure
your marketing is aligned with your
sales goals and your customer journey.
Everything we're talking about
today connects to that last letter
in guide E, evaluate and adjust.
Because good strategy means nothing
if you're not measuring the right
things and making informed decisions.
Steve: So why does this all matter
for you as a CEO or the owner of your
business if you're leading a company?
Most likely your job isn't primarily to
be a data analyst, but you absolutely
do need to know key information and how
to make, how to ask the right questions
so that you can connect marketing
performance to business results.
AnnieLaurie: And here's the mindset shift.
We're not anti data, we're pro alignment
because the right data gives you clarity.
Steve: And especially now with
more people using AI to get answers
instead of searching Google.
Your content might be working behind
the scenes in AI models, but it's
not driving traffic to your site.
AnnieLaurie: You know,
that's such a good point.
CEOs need to shift from obsessing
over traffic to understanding impact.
Is your content influencing
decisions even if people never
actually hit your homepage?
Steve: That's part of the
evolution of what we're seeing.
We've talked a lot about vanity metrics,
but also it's important to know.
What metrics to look at that as a CEO.
There are metrics that you don't
necessarily need to look at, but
somebody on your marketing team needs
to understand what they're telling you.
So I'll give you, let me give,
just give a quick example here.
So if you're looking at your numbers
in Google Search Console, if you're not
familiar with Google Search Console,
it is it's a portal that Google.
Gives you to show you how your website and
how your content is showing up in search.
It'll show you the number of impressions
that all of your content received over the
course of whatever timeframe you choose.
It shows you the number of clicks.
It shows you the click through rate.
It shows you the average
position for all your content.
Now, if you were to look at your, search
console over the last six months, most
likely what you would see and, and because
we've, a lot of our clients, this is what
they're seeing, impressions have gone up.
So the number of times that their content
shows up has increased, but in some
cases the number of clicks has decreased.
Why is that?
Well, it's ai, it's what
we've been talking about.
Content is still showing up.
But people aren't clicking
through to your website.
Now, if you don't understand how the
metrics work and you don't understand
the full context or somebody on
your team does not, then you don't
understand how to respond to that.
Now a good case in point, we have
one of our clients that they have
seen similar kinds of numbers.
Where they have seen an increase
is in their branded content.
So people are searching them by name
more often, and so in that particular
case, the strategy is to create more
content around their company name and
about what it it's like to work with
them, what the process is, et cetera.
Because.
People are then searching for them
by name, which gets into more of a
middle of the funnel type search.
Now, I know it's a little bit of a rabbit
trail there, but that's where having an
understanding of how these numbers work
together can help you help someone on
your team make strategic decisions because
ultimately that's going to drive traffic
to your site in some form or fashion.
You need to understand what's
converting into leads and what's not.
AnnieLaurie: I'm really glad you mentioned
Search Console because it brings up the
good point of which tools are the best
tools to be tracking the right metrics.
So what would you recommend, you know,
you mentioned Google Search Console.
Are there other tools that people should
be using to track the metrics that are
gonna be tied to meaningful results?
Steve: So one of the tools that I like
and, and again, this is you may have
tools that, that you like, that are
telling you good information fantastic.
And they're gonna be any number
of recommendations out there.
I like HubSpot because it can conserves a
single record of truth where you can see.
Not only how people are getting into
your website, what they're doing
on your website, but then you can
follow them through to conversion
and ultimately into revenue.
Now that is dependent on people
populating information and
having that set up correctly.
You're not gonna get that
information by default.
There's intention, not only in
terms of how it's set up, but
also in how it's being used.
That being said, other tools, Google
Analytics, Google Search Console some sort
of an SEO tool, like SEM Rush or ah, hfs.
Those are tools that will give you
good detailed information because
sometimes the metrics that you need
to get into are very specific to a
channel or a particular strategy.
AnnieLaurie: And that's where using
UTM codes can be really helpful.
I know that's highly technical and we'll
drop a link in the show notes to a blog
post we have that really impacts what
that means and, and how to do that well.
But basically there's some codes
you can add at the end of links that
you put on social media or that you
put in your newsletter or wherever
you're gonna put a link And, um.
You can set it up in GA four to track.
You know when they click the link to
come to your website, that code tells.
GA four, where they
were when they clicked.
So then you can see, oh, I'm getting
a lot of traffic from LinkedIn, but my
newsletter's not getting as much traffic.
Or, you know, in the case, maybe
you have a podcast and you wanna
drop links in your show notes.
Oh, are these coming from
my podcast show notes?
Are they coming from
my YouTube show notes?
You know, all that kind of stuff.
That's what UTM codes show you.
And it's just, it's just a best
practice and a little extra step.
What I'm seeing and I'm not sure,
you know, I feel like this is sort
of an emerging thing, but I'm seeing
that links directly out of chat.
GPT.
It's like chat, GPT is
automatically putting UTM codes
on the end of those links.
And so you could.
See that traffic NGA four coming out of
chat GPT because it will automatically
collect it and show it to you as well.
Some things you have to set up for the
codes that you create yourself, but
these ones that are coming straight
outta chat, GPT, just give it a try.
Next time you're in chat, GPT
and you click a link, you'll see
when it takes you to the website.
There's GM code there and that's not,
'cause the people on the other end
added it, you know, it's because chat
BT wants you to know it came from them.
So I think that's really interesting
Steve: that that is, that is.
And you know, I note that I wanna make
here, when we talk about vanity metrics.
A lot of times the, the context
is numbers that marketers like to
use to try to paint a picture that
things are going really well and
that what they're doing is valuable.
What we are advocating for is metrics
that help you make better decisions.
For the CEO, that means you have a
handful of KPIs that you can look at
that lets you understand where marketing
as a whole is going to let you know
that things are working the way they
should be, or that if they're not,
that somebody is making adjustments
tactically to get things back online.
As Annie Laurie was just talking
about, tactically speaking,
metrics are absolutely critical.
Because it's looking and getting into the
weeds of the metrics and understanding
what they mean so that things that are
further out, if you will, tactically.
Are ultimately going to drive the
leads that are going to convert,
uh, into opportunities and
then ultimately into customers.
And so, Annie, Laurie, you gave
the example of the newsletters.
If you've got a newsletter list, you
need to understand are people clicking?
If yes what was the article?
What was the content?
Was the subject line, what was the offer?
And not only did they
click, did they convert?
So it's, it's seeing the data that
can tell you the story of what your
customers and buyers and prospects
are doing at each step of the of
the journey on whatever channel or
channels they're coming through.
So as a CEO, you may not want to get into
the minutiae of that, but obviously you
want people on your team who understand
those numbers and how they ultimately
roll up into that handful of KPIs.
So again, it's just the numbers need
to be purposeful, not just tossed
out there for the sake of seeing
a number that looks impressive.
And along with that, we haven't
talked till about paid ads.
A whole lot.
But that is absolutely a very
viable channel and approach
for the right companies.
We have a handful of our clients
who are running paid ads, and we
help manage that process for them.
And the guide framework doesn't
get into really much detail
about that at this stage.
It definitely fits into the inform with
content and upgrade your online presence
because you want people to be able to find
you when they're searching or you wanna be
able to reach them at the appropriate time
with messages that help them understand
how you can solve their problems.
But here again, it's tracking
more than just impressions.
It's getting it down to what's
your, ultimately, what's your ROI,
AnnieLaurie: Steve, I wanna
throw this out there as well.
We work with.
CEOs who have small marketing teams and
we offer marketing coaching services
. I know you've worked with companies
and coached their marketing person.
You know, these are companies that might
just have one person who's trying to
wear a lot of hats or one or two people.
I would say your marketing person,
if you just have a one person
shop, they wanna do a great job.
They wanna do good work for you.
And I think that's why it's really
important because they may be sitting
there thinking, you know, they, they
probably know, oh, these are vanity
metrics, but my boss wants to see 'em.
You know?
So I don't know.
Speak to that.
Like how would you coach the
person who needs to try to help?
Their CEO, their manager understand
like, you know, a ton of Facebook lights
are great, but this is more valuable.
You know, how can they kinda
lead up from within in that way?
Steve: So I think it, it comes back to
making sure that your marketing manager,
your marketing director, whoever's doing
your marketing, whoever owns that seat.
That they understand the
journey your customer takes.
What are the steps in that process from
the very first point of contact all
the way through becoming a customer.
And then you begin to look
at the different channels
that they can come through.
So if they come through social
media, what are the steps?
If they come through search, if they
come through an ad, and then looking
at what are the different things
that could be measured along the way?
That could be clicks, that could be,
maybe there's likes and then there's
clicks, and then there's time on the page.
And then did they convert as a lead?
And, and there are other metrics
that are mixed in there, but making
sure they understand what those
numbers mean throughout that journey.
And then ultimately being able
to, to correlate that back to the
end result of revenue generated.
And so there's, there's just a lot
of times there's educating that needs
to happen there that, that may not.
And so when they can have that
education, when they can have that and
they understand that, then they can
become more effective at measuring and
knowing what to do based on the numbers.
AnnieLaurie: So if you're not sure
whether or not you're tracking the
right marketing metrics or if you're
spending money without knowing what it's
producing, here's what you can do next.
Steve: Head on over to
way find marketing.com
and take our free guide
marketing assessment.
This includes questions around your
goals, KPIs, lead gen sales alignment.
It helps you see where you're
strong and where you're guessing.
AnnieLaurie: Or if you're ready
to talk with someone right now
about your marketing strategy
or any of the things that we've
discussed today, we'd love to chat.
Send us an email at
podcast@wayfindmarketing.com.
Steve: Now, this episode is brought
to you by way find marketing.
If all the marketing metrics
that we've been talking about
have your head spinning or.
You're tired of chasing clicks
that don't lead to sales.
Schedule a discovery call with
us at wayfindmarketing.com.
We'll help.
We will help you figure out what to
track, what to ignore, and how to create
a plan that aligns your marketing and
your sales with your business goals.
AnnieLaurie: Vanity metrics may look
nice, but they won't grow your business.
Let's start measuring what matters.
Steve: As I said previously,
start with the end in mind.
Track what drives revenue,
not just recognition.
AnnieLaurie: And be sure to subscribe to
our podcast so you don't miss an episode.
And share this podcast with A CEO who you
know is looking to grow their company.
Steve: And we will see you next time
on the Growth-Minded Marketing podcast.