Washington Watch: Filing Season Pressures and Legislative Gridlock

Roger and Annie welcome back Thad Inge to decode what's happening in Washington DC as filing season kicks off. With potential government shutdowns, billion-dollar IRS budget cuts, and 25% of IRS staff gone through early retirements, uncertainty looms over tax professionals trying to implement retroactive provisions for overtime and tips. The conversation shifts to the renewed push for minimum tax preparer standards and why getting bipartisan legislation passed might be harder than ever in an election year.

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Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Greetings
• (03:15) - Congressional Updates and Government Shutdown Concerns
• (09:19) - IRS Staffing and Service Levels
• (11:31) - Tax Legislation and Employer Guidance
• (16:08) - State Tax Variations and Software Updates
• (19:35) - IRS Budget Cuts and Inflation Reduction Act Funds
• (25:25) - Student Loan Offsets and Political Implications
• (28:31) - Potential Tax Legislation and ACA Premium Tax Credits
• (29:35) - Trump's Healthcare Plan and Legislative Challenges
• (30:10) - Tax Extenders and Bipartisan Cooperation
• (32:36) - Child Tax Credit and Legislative Vehicles
• (33:24) - The Legislative Process and Unanimous Consent
• (37:02) - Senator Tillis and Party Defections
• (40:10) - Minimum Standards for Tax Preparers
• (53:57) - Incentivizing E-Filing for Small Businesses
• (58:12) - Conclusion and Upcoming Tax Season

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All content from this podcast by SmallBizPros, Inc. DBA PADGETT BUSINESS SERVICES is intended for informational purposes only.

Creators and Guests

Host

Annie Schwab, CPA

Franchisee Operations Manager at Padgett Business Services

Host

Roger Harris, EA

President at Padgett Business Services

Guest

Thad Inge

Thad Inge is vice president at Van Scoyoc Associates where he works with startups, nonprofits, associations, and corporations from highly regulated and emerging industries. His areas of expertise include tax, tax administration, small business, benefits, fintech, and payments issues. Prior to joining VSA, Thad led government relations at Paychex, Inc., a leading provider in payroll, human capital management, and benefits services. Thad spent a number of years in government, including heading congressional affairs for the U.S. Small Business Administration and working on the U.S. Senate Committee on Small Business & Entrepreneurship. Thad graduated from Georgetown University and received his law degree from the University of Miami School of Law.

What is Federal Tax Updates?

CPAs, Enrolled Agents, and Tax Preparers can keep up-to-date with the latest federal tax information while earning NASBA approved CPE credits and IRS approved CE credits by listening to the bi-weekly Federal Tax Updates podcast. The hosts Roger Harris and Annie Schwab have over 75 years of tax experience between them, which has been featured in various media outlets including Wall Street Journal, USA Today, The Morning Business Report, Bloomberg Business News, and Accounting Today.

There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.

Roger Harris: Hello everyone. Welcome to another Federal Updates podcast. This is Roger Harris and I'm joined, as always with Annie Schwab. Annie, how are you doing today?

Annie Schwab: Hey, Roger, I'm doing great. A nice, long weekend for me. Um, the kids are back in school today, so we're filming this in the middle of January, towards the end of January, and I'm feeling like [00:00:30] tax season is here. I'm feeling the pressure. Feeling the pain almost.

Roger Harris: Yeah, it's right around the corner. Um, I don't know about Texas, but it's cold in Georgia and we're supposed to get snow and ice, so we'll probably shut down the world around us for a few days.

Annie Schwab: We'll be right behind you. We're supposed to get snow on Saturday.

Roger Harris: When we get snow and ice in Georgia other than stay home, so hopefully we'll do that. Um, we are into a new year. We're recording this right after the MLK weekend, And I [00:01:00] think we've beat the big, beautiful bill about as far as we can go from a technical standpoint. But there's other things that will impact how filing season works for us. And a lot of that happens or could happen or doesn't happen. It can be any of the above in Washington DC. So we thought it would be a good time to bring back, uh, one of our frequent guests and a good friend and Thad Inge from Van Scoyoc and Associates to give us an update on what Congress [00:01:30] may or may not do to impact filing season what may or may not happen at the IRS. So, Thad, happy New Year and welcome back.

Thad Inge: Happy New Year. Glad to be here. Excited to be here.

Roger Harris: Yeah. So we're all trying to get over a long weekend. I heard Thad was at how many basketball games this weekend.

Thad Inge: 14 basketball games.

Roger Harris: Basketball games. Any you had basketball games to this weekend?

Annie Schwab: I did, but not 14. We had soccer and basketball. And let's be honest, I think everybody watched the game last [00:02:00] night. So, um, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's been a good weekend for sports.

Roger Harris: Yeah, well, now we have to switch over to the real world. And if you don't remember who that is, as I said, he's he's a vice president with an association. He, uh, represents Paget and NEA in DC and knows all things Washington, Congress, IRS. Uh, he's our go to guy for, uh, things that are going on. I'll actually [00:02:30] be seeing him in a day or two and we'll touch on that. Why that's to take place. But, uh, again, welcome, Thad.

Thad Inge: Great. Thank you.

Annie Schwab: So tell us, what have you been doing lately? Give us the lowdown on what your life is like. You know.

Thad Inge: It's an interesting January because normally the end of the year is where a lot of the action is. Um, sometimes you have a funding bill or a must pass bill that has to get done by December 31st or and and so [00:03:00] Congress is staying, you know, until right up until Christmas. Um, smelling the jet fumes, trying to cut a deal, uh, to either fund the government or extend a program. But when we came out of the shutdown, uh, in the fall, they did a continuing resolution until January 30th. So it bought them a little time in terms of funding the government, avoiding the next shutdown or potential one. Um, and, and gave themselves a break over the Christmas holidays. [00:03:30] Now, there were a few things that expired at the end of the year. We all heard about the Affordable Care Act, uh, premium tax credits, uh, that were expiring. And so there was a, an effort at the end of the year to get those extended. Um, that did not happen. They're still working on that a bit, but they came back from the Christmas holidays with this January 30th Deadline. And we all know Congress has been pretty divisive and divided over the, you know, the last couple of [00:04:00] years, um, with everything going on. But they've actually made a pretty good run at getting these appropriations bills done. We saw another package come out this morning. Um, they're calling the mini busses where they're they're packaging 2 to 4 bills together. They've already passed, uh, two of those. One was part of when they came out of the shutdown. Uh, another one they passed, um, about a week ago. And then, um, the Financial services and General Government, [00:04:30] which has IRS Treasury in it. Um, they passed that out of the House last week. It still needs to be passed by the Senate. Um, so they're actually making progress and, uh, and have been doing some productive work amongst all the craziness with, with everything that's happening in the news on TV.

Roger Harris: Yeah. And just for point of reference, depending on when you're listening to this. We're recording this on Wednesday, January the 20th. So, um, if you're not listening to this until sometime in February, you might know the answer [00:05:00] to these questions. You know, that we're we're speculating on. So, um, I guess the big thing let's, let's ask let's so your opinion, will we have a government shutdown, yes or no? And if we do, for God's sakes, what does that impact a filing season? Or. I mean, that's probably the first thing that our listeners are worried about.

Thad Inge: For a few reasons. One, the progress that we've made the last couple of weeks, two, that folks felt, I [00:05:30] think, worn out by the members of Congress, felt worn out by the last shutdown and don't really want to have another one of those. Right. I think we will not have another government shutdown on January 30th. Uh, we're they're making good progress. Um, I joked before the show that, uh, we probably won't have one, um, unless we invade Greenland This this week. Um, you know, there have been a few things possible. There have been a few things that have complicated things happening totally smoothly. One is, is what's [00:06:00] going on out in Minneapolis with ice and the and the, um, the, um, murder that happened out there and the, you know, um, associated violence and all of that. And then two, the Greenland kind of foreign policy stuff, even Venezuela to a degree, um, have, have, uh, complicated things a bit. So two of the bills impacted that by that. One is the homeland Security bill. Um, Democrats aren't in a mood to throw a [00:06:30] lot of extra money at Homeland Security right now and then similar with foreign operations and the State Department. But those, I think are they're working themselves out.

Thad Inge: They did propose a Homeland Security bill. But, you know, those issues aside, um, they've actually got a lot of bipartisan agreement on the bills that have come out. Now. Democrats don't necessarily love the bills, and we can talk about the IRS budget a little bit. Um, they don't necessarily love it. Um, but they're willing to go along with it in order to [00:07:00] not have a, um, another government shutdown. And, you know, if we were to your question, if we were to have a government shutdown, we did see the IRS maintain a decent level of operations during the fall shutdown. Um, they were actually answering the phones. Of course not. As, you know, not as frequently. Some things that were paused, like audits and, you know, other stuff. But, um, but there was a level of taxpayer service that we haven't seen in in past shutdowns. And [00:07:30] the IRS always has two plans, one for tax season or filing season and one for for non filing season. And so since this would be in the filing season they would maintain even a more robust you know Staffing. Um, so there would definitely be an impact. It definitely wouldn't be an ideal time to have a shutdown for the IRS.

Annie Schwab: At least returns would be processed and refunds issued, right? I mean, that's.

Thad Inge: I think they would they would maintain a, you know, [00:08:00] a decent level of staff to do those things. Yeah.

Roger Harris: Only in America can an invasion of Greenland affect how you file your taxes.

Annie Schwab: Well, we've got ten days. Today's the 20th. We have until Friday, the 30th. So, um, I guess anything could happen.

Roger Harris: But you seem pretty optimistic that we're not going to go through another shutdown, and which is good for all of us.

Annie Schwab: For sure.

Roger Harris: Despite. Let's assume the government is open. Um, it still could be an interesting filing season. Thad, what do [00:08:30] you what do you think about how we're. What should we expect? What what, you know, from the IRS, we'll talk about, I guess there's three people. We'll talk about the IRS perspective, um, tax professionals perspective.

Annie Schwab: And taxpayers.

Roger Harris: Yeah. What? I mean, what should we all expect?

Thad Inge: So coming. You know, the first year of the Trump presidency, um, we obviously saw Doge and other efforts to really streamline [00:09:00] government agencies, bureaucracies, um, incentivize early retirements, all of that stuff at the IRS, as as most folks know, there were a lot of people eligible for retirement. There were a lot of people that had been there a long time. And so more so than than at the end of the day, laying people off. A lot of it was people, um, taking it because of the uncertainty of the of what might happen, people taking these early buyouts, these incentives and [00:09:30] either retiring early or just agreeing to leave the agency. Um, and as a result, about 25% of the staff at the IRS, um, left. I think the number was like 30, 30,000 employees, something like that. And those tended to be more seasoned folks that had more experience. And so that leaves, um, you know, a bit of a hole or vacuum in ten in terms of, you know, they don't have the staff or the expertise that they did this time last [00:10:00] year.

Annie Schwab: Right.

Thad Inge: Um, all of that said, when, you know, when we've been talking to tax professionals, most folks have said that the level of service has has they haven't seen a dramatic drop. It's not like it's fallen off a cliff or anything. Um, now, we haven't been through a full tax season yet. Right, right. Um, and so I think there's nervousness. I think there's uncertainty around what will the impacts around this be. There have been technology improvements. So they're using, you know, different technologies, [00:10:30] including AI, um, to uh, to make things more efficient. And so, uh, at this point the verdict's out. I think we haven't seen a dramatic decline in service. But. But people are nervous.

Annie Schwab: Well, with all the new tax legislation to you know, there's that's another hurdle. Um, but you're right.

Thad Inge: And that and that, you know, and we can talk you know, I know you guys have been talking about that, but we can we can talk [00:11:00] separately about that too. But there's a lot of employers out there that are, um, you know, whenever a bill like this passed, people want more clarity, more, more guidance. It's it's never quite enough. Um, but when you have a retroactive provisions like we're seeing with overtime and with tips, um, I'm sure you guys are getting, you know, questions from your clients. We're even getting questions from our clients saying, uh, for instance, like, our firm represents a lot of local governments. [00:11:30] Um, we have folks saying, hey, our employees are asking us for more direction on how to claim overtime for 2020. Uh, for 2025. But we don't have all the data or we don't, you know. We know we're not. We don't have to give them all this, but we want to be helpful. And so helping folks navigate that. There's there's no perfect answer right now. But it does. It is creating, I think, nervousness and and Treasury and the IRS have been scrambling to get out [00:12:00] as much guidance as they can, but they they're understaffed as well. They went through the shutdown as well. And so sort of um, it adds another layer of.

Annie Schwab: Of I'm not really expecting more guidance. Do you think we'll get guidance or something new?

Thad Inge: I don't think on 2025.

Annie Schwab: We will now.

Thad Inge: They're.

Annie Schwab: Still.

Thad Inge: They still I think they're still going to be more on 26 through 28. And that's obviously prospective. You know, I mean now we're already in 26. But but folks [00:12:30] can start, you know, using the FLSA definition to make sure that they have all the overtime tract, and employers know they're going to have to report that in a more formal way going forward. And so hopefully folks are getting ready for that. I know, you know, payroll firms and others are. But for 2025, I think the guidance they put out, they tried to put a lot of flexibility in there and basically said, hey, we know it's not going to be perfect. Just figure it out and we won't penalize you. Is is [00:13:00] essentially what they said. But, you know, that makes people uncomfortable because they say, well, if it's not perfect, how do we know? You know, people are still worried about liability and stuff, even though they've they've got some safe harbors.

Annie Schwab: Right. They're like it's whatever's reasonable. And then the very next question is, well define reasonable. Exactly, exactly. Tell me what that means. I feel sorry for some of the HR departments where the employees are coming in like you're HR, you're supposed to tell me what to do.

Thad Inge: Yeah, exactly.

Roger Harris: I gotta tell you a funny story. I was in a restaurant, and the waitress knew what I did for a living. So she comes up [00:13:30] with her W-2 and she says, first of all, can you show me where my tips are on this W-2? And I said, yeah, it's right over here. It's in this box right there. So what do I do about it? How do I get my money? And then the next question and we can talk about this if we want to. She says, well, I don't want this big refund. I want to get it in each paycheck. How do I go about that? I said, well, I can't help you with that. That's a different discussion you need to go talk to, you know, figure out how to do a new W-4 form [00:14:00] when I, I don't think I can do that over lunch. Explain that.

Annie Schwab: Right.

Roger Harris: So, uh. Yeah. So I guess we know they did release, I think I saw this week. And correct me if I'm wrong, I did think, didn't they release the new 2026 W-2 already and some instructions for.

Annie Schwab: Yeah. It was it was a draft, but now it's finalized. So the instructions for the the W-2 for 2026 is out and we have the W-4 out, um, for 2026 as well. So there's changes on [00:14:30] obviously on both of those, um, affecting 2026. So yeah, and that's another thing. The tax. Tax practitioners are going to have to, you know, talk to their clients about making these adjustments on their W-4. Um, for those in the industries of overtime and tips. So and that's a whole nother, you know, meeting or tax planning advisory type thing to sit down with your clients and adjust those W-4 so they are getting for 20, 26 more money in their paycheck. Um, [00:15:00] 2025 is what it is. You're you're getting it when you file your 2025 tax return.

Roger Harris: Yeah, I told her, and I'm serious about it. I said, if the W-4 is so complicated, you could go through all this trouble of filling it out and they could actually take out more tax than they're taking out now because you didn't get some question or answer. Right? So just don't just assume filling out this form fixes the problem. Monitor it and look at it. And again their paychecks tend to vary. So it's kind of hard. It's not like if every week I was getting $100 taken out, I could look to see that it dropped to 75. [00:15:30] I mean, here, based on how busy the restaurant is and how many tips I get, I mean, but it's I think it's going to be a challenge. But hey.

Annie Schwab: Well, on the state side too. I mean, in Texas where I am, you know, there's no state income tax. But if you had to navigate, well, what's the difference between my state withholding adjustments that need to be made and my federal adjustments that need to be made, and that can depend on the state. So that's a that's another issue.

Thad Inge: Yeah. I mean, some states, as you guys know, some states are taking legislative action to try to [00:16:00] do something similar to what the federal government's doing. And then some states are not doing that. And then it's become a political fight, of course. Um, sure. In terms of, uh, I think President Trump has sort of called out some states that aren't doing it, saying, why aren't you implementing this, this tax break? But, um, you know.

Roger Harris: And McCarrick said, I think some states just automatically follow the federal law. I mean, it's just they don't have to do anything when the federal changes, their state law says, we'll just follow [00:16:30] the federal and others have to actually go pass something or do something. So, I mean, we could be all over the board on what the states do, depending on whether they do nothing and it automatically happens or whether they have to go actually in session. And what is it, Texas. And he doesn't meet once every three years or something. I mean.

Annie Schwab: It's it's yeah, it's something like that. I don't exactly know where we are on the, on the cycle of the three year period. But, you know, it could be very difficult for somebody to navigate the differences between, [00:17:00] you know, making adjustments on the state and then making adjustments on, on the feds.

Roger Harris: But it's possible by the time the state legislature in Texas meets, the law's already expired. So, I mean, it's, you know.

Annie Schwab: But but then you got to wait for the, the software to be updated. I mean, so I the 26th, you know, everybody knows the 26 is filing seasons open for federal. But that doesn't mean that the form is going to be ready to go or your software is going to be able to file that form yet. So there could be some delays. [00:17:30] Um, you know, the schedule one A is new this year, but, um, that's been out, but the software's have to update that, um, there's a bunch of things that the software is going to have to take care of warning people about, you know, you have to use banking information. You can't get a refund check. You know, they're going to be some some prompts in the software that are going to be new, um, that are going to require going back to the client or making some sort of adjustment. So it could be, you know, more tedious on the tax [00:18:00] practitioner side, and you might be waiting for a certain form to be approved by the software company. All the software companies, they go through their process of getting the forms approved, and they're not all the same. So you may see, I don't know, Pro series or assert or somebody, you know, got the form approved and you can e-file, but, you know, another tax practitioner using a different software might, you know, might be another week. It might be another two weeks before, you know, their form is approved.

Roger Harris: So that's going to take some managing [00:18:30] of clients because they're going to say, well, my friend went to so and so and they've already got their refund. And you tell me I can't even file my return yet. So and again, that's that's where those differences have a real world effect on how we deal with, with customers. So yeah, it's going to um, so but I guess that you're saying you think we'll have a filing season. You think it'll be. I don't want to say normal because didn't they also cut their budget? I mean, we talked I was about.

Thad Inge: To say that. So when you ask about how's the, you [00:19:00] know, how's the filing season, they go another kind of macro thing we're watching is this budget bill. So the the bill I said that passed the House on Wednesday and is expected to pass the Senate next week. It cuts the IRS budget by about a little over $1 billion, down to I think it's 11.2 billion. The current level is is 12.3 billion. Um, and so that's a significant cut. I think it's like a nine, you know, 9% cut, something like that. [00:19:30] Uh, for FY 26. So for, for this, for what we're in right now, um, it, um, could have been a lot worse. Uh, the the president had initially called for, like, a $3 billion cut. The house had called for, like a $3 billion cut. Uh, so people were kind of cheering that the Senate won out in the negotiations, and it wasn't a worse cut. Uh, the one silver lining, I think that Democrats are took some comfort in and I took some comfort [00:20:00] in, although it's hard to know exactly how this fits in, is there is still Inflation Reduction Act money left over. In March, a report came out from, uh tigta that said they had 22 billion, um, left in Inflation Reduction Act money. And that's after they had, you know, Claude, some of it back and repealed some of it. Um, they've spent a lot of that. I know they've continued with some of the technology upgrades. They use some of it to fund the first five business days of the, of [00:20:30] the shutdown. So I don't know what that exact number is, but I think it's still in the billions. And on certain things, you know, they can dip into that, whether it's technology or maybe even some service areas.

Roger Harris: Yeah. Explain that. Well, I mean, that's you know, why is that money always in this pot that was there something when that was first appropriated that it wasn't subject to future cuts or something? Why is because I've seen that all over the place. I was going to ask you that. And you brought it up when I see. Well, we're tapping into that money. I said, well, what is [00:21:00] it, in a separate bank account? I mean, why is it still.

Thad Inge: I mean, they had they that was, you know, when the Inflation Reduction Act passed, they got 80 billion, roughly 80 billion, and they had nine years to spend it. And a lot of it was enforcement, you know, and then some of it was technology, some of it was operations and all of this. And then they, they they rolled back a big chunk of that. Right. Um, through two, two different bills. Um, and, um, [00:21:30] and, you know, one of the big complaints was, well, all this money is for enforcement. We really need it for technology and stuff. Well, the reason they made it for enforcement was because that's how they they got the, um, quote unquote pay for, to pay for the Inflation Reduction Act. So if you enforce taxes, you raise revenue. And it paid for the tax bill. Right. Um, but I've always said enforcement is a broad term. Right. You can use I mean, it's for enforcement, but you can improve technology around enforcement, you can improve customer service [00:22:00] enforcement, that kind of thing. But anyway, they've got this bucket of money and it is a separate account and they can draw down on it. And they've got, um, you know, nine years to spend it. It's no, your money doesn't expire at the end of this year or anything. Right. Um, so I think it gives them a little more flexibility. And so, you know, that's not going to be there forever. I think if they didn't have that, if you saw $1 billion cut, you, you might have, you know, layoffs or something kind [00:22:30] of severe. But this provides a little bit of a cushion.

Roger Harris: So it doesn't go away. Congress could take it back, but they would have to do something.

Thad Inge: They've already taken a big chunk of it back. But, um, but there's still some left.

Roger Harris: Is that where they bought the guns for the 84,000 people on the street?

Thad Inge: And if if they don't spend it in nine years, it goes away. Okay. But it's only been. What?

Annie Schwab: Let's be honest. I think we can spend it.

Thad Inge: Yeah, exactly.

Roger Harris: There's no way.

Annie Schwab: There doesn't seem to be our problem. [00:23:00]

Thad Inge: Yeah, exactly.

Roger Harris: Damn. Look, we left $1 billion over there. Yeah. I ain't never going to happen. Yep. Okay. Well, I wondered about that. I wondered why that money? Because every time you turn on the TV or radio or you read an article, it's like, yeah, we just got some Inflation Reduction Act money left. And I said, how is that possible? Well, thanks for explaining that.

Thad Inge: One of the things Danny Wuerffel used to argue is like long term, when that money runs out, you know, it was sort of built as a one time deal and [00:23:30] all the things would be fixed. But there's actually technology issues and workforce issues that that he was arguing there to need sort of another wave of, of, of big dollars like that that's not coming in the current, you know, political environment. So we'll just have to see long term how that plays out.

Roger Harris: No, no.

Annie Schwab: Yeah. Well I've at least I've been seeing that we're getting big refunds this year. Everybody's expecting a higher refund than in the past. So I know some of that's driven by some of the new legislation [00:24:00] that's retroactive. But um, let's, let's I mean I'm game for bigger refunds. I mean, I vote yes for that. Um, hopefully.

Thad Inge: We saw that. You know, what was interesting is the student loan. I don't know if you all saw this student loan announcement at the end of um.

Roger Harris: Last week.

Thad Inge: End of last week. But they had, you know, basically under Covid, they had stopped collecting on defaulted student loans. And in May, the Trump administration turned back on the offset. So basically, if you're defaulted on student [00:24:30] loan, uh, if the government owed you money like a tax refund, they would hold that and it would go towards paying off the loan. It was an offset. And so that had been turned back on and they were kind of slowly ramping it up. But it was this tax season was supposed to be on, and it was sort of the first step in starting to collect again on on defaulted student loans. Well, they announced the end of last week that they were going to delay that and not do that. And [00:25:00] apparently the political, you know, reason coming out of the white House was all these affordability concerns and them touting that people were going to get larger refunds. They were worried that all of a sudden, all these larger refunds were going to go to pay the defaulted loans and people were going to, you know, be angry.

Annie Schwab: Panic. Yeah.

Thad Inge: And so it's, um, I mean, it's a little it's a little ironic because they had just been hounding the, you know, the Biden did something similar several times where they kept delaying the student [00:25:30] loan stuff because they always had an election or something coming up, and Republicans were just going after them saying, you know, this is transparent while you're doing this. Well, now the Trump administration has done the same thing, which is kind of like probably not a good time to turn this on. People are worried about affordability. We're counting we're counting high refunds. Let's let the people get their refunds. We won't have these go towards that. So so that was, um, another part of this. But yeah, with the no tax on tips and overtime and, and and other. [00:26:00]

Annie Schwab: Credit and.

Thad Inge: Yeah.

Annie Schwab: They've been.

Thad Inge: Helping people to get higher, higher tax refunds. And I think you know that I imagine that'll be the case for for a lot of people, because.

Roger Harris: It should be.

Thad Inge: Their withholdings at the end of the year last year. I mean, you know, all coming in.

Roger Harris: So you're not insinuating that politics plays some part in tax policy, are you? And that these refunds. Right. And this is a midterm election year. So it's a pretty good year to be handing out big refunds. So.

Thad Inge: Exactly.

Roger Harris: You [00:26:30] don't think any of that had any. This was all just let's do the best for tax policy here. Let's just make sure that all of this is because it's good for the country.

Thad Inge: Yeah. I think the official line was we're standing up new systems. You know, we're still digging out of the Biden hole, this kind of stuff.

Roger Harris: And yeah.

Thad Inge: So take us a little more time.

Annie Schwab: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roger Harris: It's, uh. Yeah, yeah. Big refunds coming right before a midterm election. That's. And and if you take it even further, this [00:27:00] these things expire, right? Um, before the next presidential election, you know.

Annie Schwab: Some some of of them expire in 28. Yeah.

Roger Harris: Yeah. So yeah, there's politics that are playing the game because it's midterms. You know does does that just basically shut down any other legislation? I know you hear rumblings about tax things being talked about, but in the in the political environment we have on a regular basis and now we're into a midterm [00:27:30] year. Anything possible is anything we need to keep an eye out for. Could they throw us a curve ball in the middle of filing season?

Thad Inge: Is it. It's it's a great question. So there are a couple of different, I guess, buckets of possible things out there. Um, one of the most immediate is this, um, these ACA premium tax credits. Right. Um, they ended up through a discharge petition where they got a majority of signatures in the House. They they did have a vote. I think that was two weeks ago in the House. And, um, and passed out [00:28:00] a three year extension for the ACA credits that went over to the Senate. That was never going to pass in the Senate as is. But they were negotiating and they were there was talk last week about coming out with a compromise. I mean, I think they were very close to coming out with a compromise on these ACA credits. Um, there was still some small disagreements. And then Trump came out with his own plan, which basically said, let's not do the tax credits. Let's do. Let's just send subsidies to people that they can use to, [00:28:30] to, um, offset to pay for their premiums. So that's kind of been put on hold. I think the negotiators said we're not going to have anything before the end of January. Um, I think there's some concern, even though they were getting close, that that could fall apart. Um, but if that had happened, that would have been a potential vehicle for either some other health care provisions or even tax provisions.

Thad Inge: There are some things that expired, you know, extenders that expired at the end of the year, things like the watsi, uh, the [00:29:00] Work Opportunity tax credit expired. There's some niche, niche things around, um, like film credits and racetrack, you know, racetrack credits and uh, that kind of, uh, target certain industries. So of course there's interest that are pushing to get those things extended. Sure. That would take that takes bipartisan cooperation and a vehicle. Two things that are we're short on right now. Um, so I don't know if any of that comes together. Uh, [00:29:30] the other thing is Republicans could do another reconciliation bill, like the one big, beautiful bill where they just pass something party lines. Mhm. You know, and there is a group of Republicans, especially in the House that are saying, why wouldn't we do this? Why wouldn't we take advantage of this and just, uh, get some other priorities through before we potentially, you know, lose seats in the, in the midterm? And so Speaker Johnson even came out last week and said [00:30:00] he wanted to do that. Um, Trump's kind of been on both sides of that, but, um, but I saw that Crapo and um, Senator Crapo, who chairs the Senate Finance Committee, he came out and said, not really interested in that.

Roger Harris: This ain't happening.

Thad Inge: Um, you know, one of the things is, is some of the conservatives in the House would like to drive more savings, uh, to lower the deficit through that, which, you know, they were talking about save another trillion dollars for the government, which means cuts. Right. [00:30:30] And which means, you know, Medicare or Medicaid cuts. Um, and they were really popular. The last bill didn't go far enough, you know, and we need to go back and finish the job. Well, with moderate senators, that's very unpopular. And moderates in the House to where you've got a very thin majority right now, very thin. Um, uh, so now if President Trump got all in behind it and they tailored [00:31:00] it, you know, to some specific issues. Is it possible that they could do another reconciliation bill? I think it is possible, but it's um, it has a number of challenges. So, you know, there's there's a possibility we get some legislation one way or another this year. But but the closer you get to the election, the harder it is.

Roger Harris: Did I see something that there seems to be some bipartisan support for doing something with the child tax credit? Could that happen on its own, or is it just like going to get thrown into the bucket with everything else?

Thad Inge: I think it gets thrown [00:31:30] in the bucket. I think you need a vehicle. You know though, that child tax credit is very popular, but then it ends up costing money, right? Right. So it's how do you pay for it? And then, um, that's where it gets a little more complicated. But it does have strong bipartisan support.

Roger Harris: Yeah. And we're going to talk about a bill later. But explain to people when you mean it needs a vehicle, because I think the three of us know what that means. But the idea that you and I, if we were in Congress, came up with this bill, and we're just going to run into the House or run into the Senate [00:32:00] and say, hey, I got a bill, let's vote on it and see how that's not how. Maybe that's how it used to work, but that's not how it works anymore.

Thad Inge: You know, what's funny is we've seen a we've seen a few small little tax bills, like there was one on math notices making them.

Annie Schwab: I saw that, yeah, yeah.

Thad Inge: It became law. But most of that stuff passes unanimously, you know. Yeah. It's like it passed. You know, they put it on, it passes the, the House either unanimously or overwhelmingly because the House can do a vote very quickly. Right. And then in the Senate you [00:32:30] can pass something in five seconds if it's unanimous, you know, you call it up and you say, does this have unanimous consent? If nobody objects, you can pass it really quickly. Most things can't pass unanimously or for whatever reason, they decide not to do it that way. And it takes a lot of time, like to to file cloture on a bill to allow, you know, hours of debate. I mean, it can take three days a week, you know, if you allow amendment, you know, No. Amendment process and so forth. And rather than just have one small bill [00:33:00] and say, we're going to go through this process, it sort of opened, especially in the Senate. It opens up a can of worms where people are attaching all kinds of amendments and all kinds of stuff. So what they tend to do is these big packages, like you have a spending bill and, you know, they'll call them like a Christmas tree or something because they'll just start adding ornaments, you know, like, this is moving. Let's throw this, you know, this, uh, tax extender on there or um, and so that's what we mean when we say a vehicle. [00:33:30] It's, it's a big train that's moving and everyone starts trying to get their piece of legislation. Yeah. And then it's hard not to pass it because it's got stuff in there that has to pass, you know, and so you don't get bogged down by all the provisions you don't like because, you know, there's one in there you really like.

Roger Harris: So when we start seeing all these ads in around election time saying, I introduced a bill to do this and that most of those bills never saw the light of day. That's just. Yeah, they wrote one and they put it out there and everybody said, [00:34:00] that's nice.

Thad Inge: Yeah, I forget the stat, but I mean so many bills, you know, thousands of bills get introduced every year. A very small number become law. Um, but but Congress is also one of these. Wait wait wait. And then things happen really fast. And so I'm always careful to say something's not going to happen or it's not going to pass because it'll seem like it's dead. And then all of a sudden something will come together and they'll start, you know. And when we saw COVID was an exception, but we saw that during [00:34:30] Covid where they just started passing all kinds of stuff so fast, you know.

Roger Harris: And sometimes that's not that creates problems, as we learned during Covid, that the rush to do something quickly doesn't allow enough time to really think it out and think through it. And the consequences of a small mistake can be billions of dollars.

Thad Inge: And I know we've talked about this before on the show, but the big, beautiful Bill, I was a skeptic that this was going to come together as quick as they say, because there were so many complicated parts. But at the end of the [00:35:00] day, it was about Trump's political, you know, power to be able to push this thing through. And basically member sort of held their nose for the provisions they didn't like and got it done because there was all this, uh, you know, political pressure to get it done. And they got it done quicker than, than folks had imagined.

Roger Harris: Yeah.

Annie Schwab: I feel like they get the momentum going. And then all of a sudden it can it can go, I guess, as fast as it can just die to I don't know.

Thad Inge: Exactly, exactly.

Roger Harris: And it can be a news event. It can be [00:35:30] I mean, anything can start or stop some of these things. I mean, we we joked about Greenland, but I mean, that's that's the truth. I mean, something sour the mood in the House, the Senate or both. And everything that was agreed on is no longer agreed on.

Thad Inge: You know, we're seeing this with Senator Tillis in North Carolina a little bit. So Senator Tillis announced, um, that he's during the the tax debate, announced that he was going to retire. And so he's not running for reelection, [00:36:00] and he's the deciding vote on a number of committees. Um, he's on finance committee now. He's on banking committee. And so he does not like some of the things Trump is doing with, with Greenland and, and, and some other issues. And he's basically said, I'm going to use this deciding committee vote to cause problems if this continues. And so that, um.

Annie Schwab: I'm going to show you what I can do.

Thad Inge: Exactly. And he he's not up for reelection. He's not worried about, you know, [00:36:30] being popular. Um, and that's another thing we're watching. How does that impact some of this? Because, um, when it gets harder, when folks start defecting from your from your own party, you know.

Roger Harris: Well, the margins, particularly in the house down to like 1 or 2 people? And there's been some deaths and retirements and. Yeah. I mean, it's almost last week.

Thad Inge: I mean, it was literally, I think 1 or 2 because there were a few members who had, um, one, uh, um, [00:37:00] Derrick Van Orden, his wife was ill, and so he couldn't come. Um, uh, we had a congressman who got in a bad car accident. We had a congressman who passed who who, um, passed away. And so it's, you know, literally if 1 or 2 more things happen, you could have a shift in majority. And so, um, it's, uh, it's about as narrow as it gets. And then you kind of turn every member could become a Joe Manchin where they say, [00:37:30] well, actually, I'm not going to vote for this unless, you know, um.

Roger Harris: If the if the Democrat if a, some Republicans dropped out and the majority flipped from Democrats to Republicans, does Jeffries automatically becomes speaker, or does Mike Johnson still stay? Or do they have to do a vote? Or how does that work? Just when.

Thad Inge: You're saying in the House, if the House, if Dems take.

Roger Harris: If due to retirements or illness or car wrecks or whatever.

Thad Inge: It would switch, it would switch, they would have to [00:38:00] um, they would have to elect.

Roger Harris: A new speaker.

Thad Inge: Speaker.

Roger Harris: Okay, so it'd be an election.

Thad Inge: Switch at midterm. And that's happened. I mean, that's I know that's happened in the Senate. We saw that with, um, with Daschle, where where you had a, um, a party change, you know, it was basically 5050 and, and, uh, someone switched parties and they, um, now sometimes in the Senate, when it's 5050, they do kind of like a power sharing agreement to, you know, they they, um, they [00:38:30] didn't completely give up all, all the power, but but yeah, the house could shift and you could see it shift back and forth, which would be a little crazy.

Roger Harris: Yeah, but they do have to have a vote. But we know how those votes come out. Yeah. They're pretty. All right. You want me to come to Washington this week? Wow.

Thad Inge: Yeah. So there are a couple things, uh, you know, we've been working on for a long time. One is minimum standards for tax preparers. Things like, you know, are required. Background check [00:39:00] required CE credits, uh, the ability for IRS to take away a P10 if someone's doing fraudulent stuff. Right now, it's, you know, basically impossible for them to to regulate any of that because of, um, what the courts have said in terms of their authority. And so they need legislation that gives them some authority to sort of take care of the bad actors and provide some, some just basic minimum standards. So you can't have, you know, [00:39:30] a criminal or someone that's just totally incompetent, hang a shingle and start preparing, um, taxes for someone. And so, you know, this bill has kind of been out there for a while, but it was recently reintroduced by Congressman Jimmy Panetta from California and Greg Stuby from Florida, a Republican from Florida. So it's a bipartisan bill. And, um, we're trying to build support for that in the House, get some new co-sponsors, uh, build some momentum [00:40:00] around it. And so that's one of the things we're going to be talking about.

Thad Inge: Um, there's also Crapo and Widen in the Senate have have a have their big draft bill where this is sort of the centerpiece of that. But there the concern is that the house will be a little harder. And so we're mainly going to focus on the house. And so that's sort of the the big piece of legislation we're going to be talking about. But of course there's also all these IRS issues. Oh sure. Implementation with big beautiful bill. People, people you know, we want to be in constant [00:40:30] contact. They want to hear, uh, what we think and and make sure, you know, we're communicating. Right. And so that's sort of the goal. So we've got Roger and then a few members from the NEA, the National Association of Enrolled Agents. And we're just going to kind of, um, you know, work the Hill, meet with a lot of folks and, and, and see if we can, uh, make this one of the bills that that actually gets passed, you know, to, to to hitch a ride if we do [00:41:00] have some, some tax administration legislation.

Roger Harris: And I think it's important to talk a little bit about, I mean, we see it all the time in our, in our offices where we're playing Fix-It man or woman to a mistake that, you know, an unprepared, you know, and I've said this a lot, unscrupulous and and uneducated can get you to the same spot, you know, whether you did it on purpose or by accident. You know, if it's wrong, it's still wrong. And any talk about how what it takes is a great example [00:41:30] how to clean air.

Annie Schwab: But there's there's so many child tax credit, EIC, all these types of, um, you know, meaningful credits and deductions and legislation. If the, you know, Joe blow down the street is helping out a client, he may not even intentionally know that he's making a mistake or, you know, may not be aware of of some caveat. So to say. But we do get a lot of taxpayers who receive notices about [00:42:00] their tax return and then come to one of our offices who then have to, you know, not only educate the taxpayer like, well, this is what happened, but then remedy the situation, which sometimes can, you know, can be difficult to do and also can be costly. But on the flip side, you know, there are preparers out there, like if you want to take a if you want to get the URC and your tax payers like, hey, you don't qualify, there's going to be somebody down the block that'll do it for you. So it hits both ways. Um, you know, [00:42:30] the good tax professionals who stay educated, who are in the know, who who participate in these IRS forums and such. You know, they they are correcting errors or they're losing business because somebody will do it wrong for their client.

Roger Harris: Mhm.

Annie Schwab: Anyway, so it's it's a tough place to be in. And I, I'm obviously a proponent of you know regulating tax preparers. Um just like other industries. You know I don't want to go to a doctor that doesn't know what they're [00:43:00] doing. I don't want to go to, you know, a physical therapist that doesn't have the qualifications or the education. So, I mean, I think it's needed. Um, it's been hard to actually get passed, but I, I'm glad that you guys are going up there next week and maybe something will come about it. You know, it's really important for the tax payers to feel confident in who they're going to to prepare their tax returns or get tax advice from. Um, and it's, it's, you know, it would be more comforting [00:43:30] to know, okay, I at least know they hit the minimum standards, right? Or have some sort of of somebody to answer to to prove that they know what they're doing.

Roger Harris: And I said this all along, I believe it. I think a lot of taxpayers assume that's already in place. You know, that.

Annie Schwab: And that could be the case, too. You're right.

Thad Inge: And even members of Congress, you know, people high up on, you know, you sit next to them at one of these lunches or something, and you're I tell them about the bill and they're like, that's not already [00:44:00] the case. Like, it's not. And, you know, and so educating people about that, most people believe it's common sense now for reasons that I don't think are very good. One, sometimes it does become more complicated than that.

Roger Harris: Yeah. What is the I mean, I was going to say everybody in our industry probably is for it. But then you go back and loving and it was actually somebody in our industry that that kicked out when we overreach. So what is what is the help me get ready for these meetings. What are the objections to doing this?

Thad Inge: There are Libertarian [00:44:30] groups out there that don't want to regulate any industry. I mean, I don't know about doctors and lawyers and stuff, but this idea, you know, there was a time when when certain industries were just creating all these certifications and regulations because they wanted to keep people out, keep competitors out.

Roger Harris: Yeah.

Thad Inge: And there was an effort like the Koch brothers, um, funded a lot of these things to try to tear down these barriers to entry for different industries. [00:45:00] And, and so this case, when IRS started regulating tax preparers, this case that went to the D.C. circuit, um, um, loving versus the IRS, where that was funded by some of these groups saying, let's not let the IRS overreach here and start regulating. They don't have the authority. And so, you know, most people have gotten over that. Like, you know, most people agree this is not, you know, a dog, a dog groomer or something like that.

Roger Harris: Yeah. [00:45:30]

Thad Inge: Where we need to put up, like, you know, we need to say, this is ridiculous. Why would you regulate this? But there's still, you know, there's still a bit of a hangover where some people like, oh, I thought we weren't for this. You know, we don't want to drive up the price of of, you know, service and that kind of thing. Well, but if you talk to someone like the Taxpayer Advocate, I mean, they've done studies, they've shown that it's something like the earned income tax credit, something like 90, over 90% of the mistakes or fraud [00:46:00] come from, um, folks that are not CPAs, enrolled agents, you know, or, or certified tax professionals. And so the stats bear it out. Like, um, folks that have the credentials do not make the same kind of errors that that folks that, um, that don't. But hopefully we can get over those, you know, hurdles and keep educating folks.

Annie Schwab: And let's be honest, the legislation's not getting any simpler, you know. The more complex, [00:46:30] the more likely for error. And and social media is not helping and and AI is is beneficial, but only if, if it can be trustworthy.

Thad Inge: Well, and in Irtc was a good example because folks saw the fraud that went on around that. And, you know, the fraud did not come from the reputable firms. It came from these mills or or folks that stood these businesses up for six months and, and that kind of thing. And, [00:47:00] um, and so that's one of the examples we use is, you know, um, as you, as Congress does different things to address one crisis or another, you need, uh, you can't just let it becomes a free for all if anyone can can do this.

Roger Harris: And I think this is more important maybe now than it has been in before, because we already talked about the IRS has fewer resources to do audits and to do enforcement, whatever [00:47:30] that means. So we're kind of the first or how you want to look at it first or last line of defense. And if you just let people be rogue and do whatever they want to, you know, to make a client happy with no fear of ever having repercussions, who knows? I mean, I would love if somebody could actually put a calculator to the cost of to the treasury of poorly prepared tax returns by people who either did it intentionally or just because they held [00:48:00] they were a truck driver on Tuesday and a tax preparer on Wednesday. You know, and, you know.

Annie Schwab: Well, the IRS does put out educational material, but I'm sure that's taken a hit to, you know, the the webinars and the online courses and the information released to the public to keep them informed probably has taken a hit too with cutbacks.

Thad Inge: Yeah.

Roger Harris: No, it's again to me. It's. You said it's common sense. I would think most [00:48:30] everybody listening to this and everybody in our industry would agree with it. But that's one of the crazy things about our business in Washington is it may make perfect sense and everybody might agree to it, but getting it to actually become law is is, I don't know, seems overly complicated to me. Yeah. What else we got, Andy? We're about to run out of time.

Annie Schwab: Yeah, we're almost to the top of the hour, but, um, I do want your opinion, Thad on. So I've heard more through, um, [00:49:00] just communities and groups talking about this. No paper check. I mean, come on, the IRS is going to take my money if I write a check, I assume. But I understand that they're in, you know, saying now for refunds that they want banking information. Um, are you hearing chatter like, what's there is. I mean, it makes sense to me, right? But I have a bank account. I've been doing banking, but I understand that there's a population out there that that really may not have banking information [00:49:30] or fear of giving it to someone to use.

Thad Inge: I think the response has been mixed. I mean, I think a lot of associations and groups and large companies have been pushing IRS to modernize, become more electronic, to do more electronic payments, to do more electronic filing. All of that stuff for years. Right. And so when the president came out with this executive order, and it was kind of in the spirit of Doge and all that about, let's make things more efficient [00:50:00] and more, um, you know, streamlined and all of that. You know, when I saw it, my thought was, this is what we've been asking for. This is this is great. Right, right. Like, you gotta push. You gotta. You can't just expect it to happen. It'll gradually happen, but you kind of gotta put some incentive or some push to really speed things up. Um, now that said, then people start raising the concerns about, well, I represent a native, you know, a native tribe, [00:50:30] and they don't.

Roger Harris: They're.

Thad Inge: Not able to do this. Or I have elderly clients and, um, and all that's understandable. And I think, I do think that they've been relatively sensitive to that. You know, they had an open comment period. They had a date that this was all going to be implemented by. And they kind of, um, came out with some language around, you know, that's still our goal, but we're going to still accept paper checks for now, and we're going to try to.

Annie Schwab: Make exceptions.

Thad Inge: For [00:51:00] certain exceptions. And so, um, you know, and then sort of the process of how, you know, well, if there's a bank account on file and how is that verified and how does the back and forth go between, you know, um, taxpayers and the IRS around that process. There's been some details in that that I know that folks have commented on or that that need to be sort of refined a little bit. But, you know, I don't get worked up about this because [00:51:30] I think this is kind of, you know, part of the the push and pull of modernization. You know, um, people are always going to be like, what? You won't take my check or you won't do, you know.

Roger Harris: Yeah. And, uh.

Thad Inge: And I think for now they will take your check.

Roger Harris: Yeah.

Thad Inge: And, and I think that, um, you know, I've worked on legislation that have, like, done things like, really, you know, I'm, I'm helping with a bill now that really focuses on, uh, incentivizing [00:52:00] e-filing for businesses, like with the 941, 940 and stuff, you know, and we put a bunch of exceptions in there, like if you have a cyber hack or if you live in an area that's got no broadband, you know, there's there's things you can do because of course you're going to have some congressman that's like, well, most of my constituents don't have broadband. I can't do this. So you want to allow. But at the end of the day, if we're done to modernize the IRS, you didn't have to have some. You didn't have to help push things along. Yeah. And [00:52:30] so but I'm not a practitioner. But that's sort of from a policy perspective. That's where I come from it. But I know that there are practitioners that have, you know, legitimate concerns.

Roger Harris: Would that be a. Because if you go back to when, uh, the only way we got anywhere near to the level of e-filing we have now is they mandated or put some 80 over 20 rule or something. I mean, it just kind of compelled you to have to do it whether you wanted to or not. Uh, but they put the pressure on practitioners more than taxpayers. [00:53:00] Your bill going to address practitioners or taxpayers or both. I mean, I'm just thinking if I were going to compile businesses to do something, but I don't have that, you know, I do my own payroll. I'm small. I got one person. Are you compelling the business to do it? Or if they.

Thad Inge: Engage someone like this? Um, this bill that I've been working on, it's called the e-file Act, and it was just introduced. Uh, Congresswoman Malliotakis is the lead, um, Republican. [00:53:30] And then Suozzi and Morelli from New York are the lead, um, the lead Democrats. It's not a mandate. It actually provides a $1,000 tax credit if you're an employer, if you're a small, small business owner. So your employer to file electronically. Now some people say, well isn't everybody doing that?

Roger Harris: No.

Thad Inge: Nine 4941. Only about half of businesses are filing electronically. Now. On the individual side, [00:54:00] it's up to like 97% now. I mean, it's really high. And that's where a lot of the push has been from the IRS. And so this would provide a credit for a few years, and then eventually there would be a small filing fee if you did it on paper.

Roger Harris: Um, I like that idea. Yep.

Thad Inge: And so I can share. I'll share that with you. And, um.

Roger Harris: Yeah. Thousand dollars. Yeah. That'll get somebody. That's. Yeah, there's a lot of. It's just laziness. I mean, I've always done it this way. I don't want to go through [00:54:30] the authorization and all that stuff.

Thad Inge: Similar to the retirement. The retirement bill secure act, uh, 1.0 and 2.0. Um, they did these small tax credits for small businesses to try to incentivize things like automatic enrollment and, um, you know, offering different retirement benefits. So it said, all right, if you sign up your employees for automatic enrollment, we'll give you a 500 credit per employee, things like that. And so, you know, it's not a lot of money, [00:55:00] but it actually drives behavior because the accountant will say to the firm, oh, why don't you do this? And you can we can save you a little money on your payroll, thousand dollars.

Roger Harris: Because I can tell you right now of situations where the state has mandated that all the payroll stuff for the state be filed electronically, Social security has mandated that the w-2s be filed electronically, but they're still filing the. Nine 4941 on paper.

Thad Inge: Yeah, yeah.

Roger Harris: Yeah, yeah.

Thad Inge: And and, you know, mandate it would be another way. And in some states mandated [00:55:30] on, on I think nine you know, on the employer payroll tax return. But yeah. Um, the the problem is with the mandate is sometimes you'll have groups, you know, whether NFIB or, you know, the, um, AARP or someone will say, well, we don't need mandates on small businesses, which I get. And so the idea of this bill is all right, it's not a mandate. It's let's make it an incentive, you know.

Roger Harris: Sure. Well, I like that we should figure out if I have to do the States, and I do I [00:56:00] have to do the w-2s in 1099, and I do. Yeah. Just what is the hurdle that's keeping me from doing those other two forms. Why don't I just naturally do those? Because that's I think there's a lot of people in that boat because other people are mandated. I'd love to know what is the reason that that behavior is still out there, because it would seem to me, if you're doing all that electronically, why wouldn't you just do these? But they're.

Thad Inge: Not. And not to go too far on this, because I know we're at the top of the hour, but the 941 X, as you guys know, um, [00:56:30] had to be filed on paper and, and during irtc when you filed, you know, that's the amended 941 when folks had to file that to claim the nine. That's when we had all these backlogs of paper at the IRS and, and during Covid. And, you know, if everything had been electronic, that process.

Annie Schwab: Been very different.

Thad Inge: Very different, very different.

Annie Schwab: Very different. Yeah. You're right.

Roger Harris: All right. Thank you. I'll see you in a couple of days.

Thad Inge: All right.

Annie Schwab: This has.

Roger Harris: Been great. Take [00:57:00] us.

Annie Schwab: Home. No, this is this is great. Uh, you know, ten days out from the 30th of January. We'll see what happens there. The start of filing season six days away. So we'll see how that gets kicked off. And, um, watch and see what kind of stats we get from refunds and people paying by check or getting refund banking information. So this this will be interesting. We'll have to have you back at the end of tax season and get your feeling on how it went.

Roger Harris: But yeah.

Thad Inge: That sounds that sounds awesome. We'd love to. Thanks, Annie. Thanks, Roger.

Roger Harris: Thank you. You're welcome. [00:57:30] See you in a couple of days, Annie. Thanks as always. This is, um. This has been good. I hope people enjoyed it. Any final comments? Annie? Close us out.

Annie Schwab: I'm good. I just say, you know, keep watching. We'll be bringing you everything we have. And if you haven't subscribed, tell a friend and, uh, follow us on our federal Tax update podcast. Thank you Roger. Thank you Thad.

Roger Harris: Thanks, Andy. Bye, everybody.