Cold Hard Truths: Virtual Autism

Hosts Julianna Scott and Kelley Jensen explore the controversial term "virtual autism," coined by Romanian psychologist Marius Zomfier in 2018 to describe behavioral abnormalities in children aged 0-3 exposed to excessive screen time. The discussion clarifies that virtual autism is not real autism and examines the developmental impacts of early screen exposure. Through social media posts from concerned parents, they address common fears and misconceptions while emphasizing that screen-related developmental delays are potentially reversible, unlike autism spectrum disorder.

Key Takeaways

• Virtual autism is not real autism - it's better described as a neurodevelopmental disorder due to early screen exposure
• The term refers to children 0-3 years old exposed to 4+ hours daily of tablets/phones, not TV
• Zero to three years is critical for language development and communication skills
• Virtual autism symptoms include delayed speech, limited vocabulary, avoiding eye contact, and withdrawal
• Unlike autism, virtual autism is considered "curable" by removing screen exposure
• The 0-3 age range is when children develop crucial communication foundations like pointing and seeking attention
• Parents should be honest with healthcare providers about screen time during assessments
• Educational programming like Sesame Street is preferable to entertainment-only content
• Save screens as high-value rewards for specific situations like potty training
• Focus on face-to-face interaction and real-world experiences for optimal development\

🔗 Learn More: 
Website: refrigeratormoms.com 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/ 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/ 
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Creators and Guests

Guest

Julianna Scott

Guest

Kelley Jensen

What is Refrigerator Moms?

Born from 20 years of friendship, during which they navigated the trenches of autism parenting and advocacy, the Refrigerator Moms is Kelley Jensen and Julianna Scott’s way of reaching out to parents waging the same battles they were.  Their purpose with this podcast is to clear the fog, silence the noise, and find a path through neurodivergence for parents that are stuck between bad choices. They tackle parenting topics such as mom guilt, tantrums, pathological demand avoidance, siblings, medication, comorbidities, social media, and much more. 

[Kelley Jensen] (0:09 - 0:31)
So, Julianna, we touched on this a little while ago. I introduced you to a new term, virtual autism, and I erroneously said it was a term coined by a Dutch psychologist, but it was actually a Romanian psychologist. You of course did what you do and went into the deep dive to know more about virtual autism.

[Julianna Scott] (0:31 - 1:07)
Okay, I did find out that in 2018, Marius Zomfier, a Romanian psychologist, used the term virtual autism to describe behavioral abnormalities seen in children between zero and three years old, arising from sensory motor and socio-affective deprivation caused by exposure to more than four hours a day of virtual environment. And they're really looking at like iPhones, iPads, you know, tablets. Tablets, so not TV.

No, not necessarily TV, so a lot of tablets.

[Kelley Jensen] (1:07 - 1:26)
And I think it's important that the zero to three-year-old distinction is incredibly important because that is the language development, the communication urgency that you want from children and that is often missing in people who are diagnosed with autism.

[Julianna Scott] (1:26 - 2:19)
Right, so this psychologist said that the developmental symptoms were seen in such children were very similar to childhood autism. So that's why, you know, he's calling it virtual autism. So there's, you know, of course, there's a recent study, there's 46 studies that concluded that this association between screen exposure and ASD symptoms was not adequately supported in the existing literature.

So this isn't a diagnosable thing. And also, you know, let's be really clear. Virtual autism is not real autism.

It's just, yeah, and it's not triggering autism. That's another thing that people are afraid that screen time is triggering autism. That's not a thing.

So very distinct.

[Kelley Jensen] (2:20 - 2:37)
Well, I think it's interesting. It does bring up the point that I haven't seen any diagnostic to this point, you know, when you go take your child to be assessed for autism, standardized questionnaire after standardized questionnaire. I don't know that there is a how much screen time.

No. What type of screen?

[Julianna Scott] (2:38 - 3:17)
No. Are you in the room with your child when they're on that screen? So there was some information I was reading in the studies that they were talking about what screen time would be appropriate.

And I know we're going to, screen time is such a big topic. How much is OK? But pretty much across the board, they were saying unfettered access to screen time that's not educational.

And by educational, they're talking about the Sesame Street kind of shows where they're programming that is directed toward kids in education, like learning your ABCs, learning those things, not just cartoons or something, entertainment.

[Kelley Jensen] (3:17 - 3:21)
What are you even looking at? You're looking at mom's phone. Is it?

[Julianna Scott] (3:22 - 3:24)
Right. It could be that. Yeah, it could be that.

[Kelley Jensen] (3:24 - 3:32)
You know, who knows? But, you know, I guess it is important since this is what parents are doing that that question is asked.

[Julianna Scott] (3:32 - 3:33)
Yes.

[Kelley Jensen] (3:33 - 3:48)
You take your kid for assess. It probably should be asked a yearly exam for your kid. You know, you go to get a physical.

How much screen time? And the question is, how much screen time? Honestly, right?

Are you going to be honest in your answer?

[Julianna Scott] (3:48 - 4:04)
Because I think we're all kind of dishonest with ourself about our own screen time. So you're probably, you know, I never think I'm on my phone as long as it's, you know, and then I'll get the little report. I'm like, oh, yikes.

Yeah. So that time does go by really fast.

[Kelley Jensen] (4:04 - 5:05)
Well, and again, zero to three is a really important developmental time for language. You know, it was explained to me once by a speech therapist, and I think this is the best analogy. If you don't speak a language, you go to a foreign country, you don't speak the language at all, but you have an emergency, you have a desperate need for something.

You are going to do all you can to communicate the emergency to the people that don't speak your language. Right. You are going to go to them.

You are going to point. You're going to scream. You're going to, you know, do some sort of, you know, motions to indicate what try to get your point across.

And one of the hallmarks of autism in a three-year-old is they're not pointing. They're not trying to get your attention. They're not, you know, giving you any kind of a signal of what their needs are because it is a foundation of communication.

So it's an important time developmentally, and I can see where a screen would might blunt some of that, but it's, again, not autism.

[Julianna Scott] (5:05 - 6:18)
And what I was reading, you know, virtual autism, it sounds scarier. What's more probably, you know, a better term they said was like, and it's not as catchy, is a neurodevelopmental disorder due to early screen exposure. But that is a lot harder to say than virtual autism.

But that's really more like what it is. And so, again, what the symptoms, or they're saying the virtual autism symptoms are including is, you know, delayed speech, limited vocabulary, like we were talking about, avoiding eye contact, short attention span, lack of interest in playing with others, withdrawing, having trouble following instructions, appearing uninterested in their environment. All things that we see with people of all ages who are addicted to screens, right?

Yeah. So, but obviously more important, even more important in those really early developmental years. The other thing about virtual autism versus like real autism is virtual autism is curable.

As we know, autism, not curable. Virtual autism, the cure is no screens. Yeah.

[Kelley Jensen] (6:19 - 6:30)
Put the phones and iPads in a lockbox a couple hours a day and get some old fashioned Play-Doh and see what happens. Right, right. What are they saying on social media?

[Julianna Scott] (6:31 - 7:09)
Oh, man. Okay, so I am usually not the one of the two of us that's on social media, but of course, I couldn't resist. Yes, of course.

Now I couldn't resist. So I went on Facebook and I was looking for posts on virtual autism and oh, I found them. Okay.

So here's a little sampling. So one of them is, do you think that your child had virtual, this is in response to somebody who was, you know, upset about their kid. Do you think that your child had virtual autism due to excessive screen time?

I made a mistake of allowing screen time since my son was three months old and now he's showing all signs of autism waiting to be diagnosed.

[Kelley Jensen] (7:11 - 7:19)
So it's a fascinating question. Is the person making that diagnosis going to ask them how much was your son on the screen?

[Julianna Scott] (7:19 - 7:19)
Right.

[Kelley Jensen] (7:19 - 7:33)
Is a parent going to volunteer that? Right, right. It's entered the chat, right?

It has entered the diagnosis. Make sure that if you take your kid for, and listen, don't worry about.

[Julianna Scott] (7:34 - 7:34)
The judgment.

[Kelley Jensen] (7:35 - 7:40)
The judgment and the guilt. That's what you did. That's what you did.

You got to start from scratch.

[Julianna Scott] (7:40 - 7:46)
Right. Trust me, you would much rather have a doctor tell you that your kid just needs to be off screens than your kid has an autism diagnosis.

[Kelley Jensen] (7:46 - 7:54)
You might have a couple of months of tantrums and take it away, but that they're young and they'll forget that and they're easily redirected with something really cool.

[Julianna Scott] (7:55 - 9:28)
Do it now. But speaking of the guilt part, so another post is, is virtual autism really a thing? I die of guilt every single day.

I think my son's condition is because of me. I'm mentally exhausted, tired, and helpless. I wish I were a better mom.

Crying emoji. I know. It's so sad.

Welcome to motherhood. And also, you know, welcome to the refrigerator moms. Go to our website and read our paper on guilt.

And also, yes, we all have moments of guilt, but it doesn't serve. So again, go back to that. Once you're in a better space and just realize, okay, I wish I were a better mom.

No judgment, sad, but you can be a better mom by figuring that out and take the phone away. A hundred percent. Yeah.

So here's another one. Virtual autism is real, and I'm here to say it based on my experience. My son was developing normally.

He achieved all his early milestones, like clapping, waving, responding to his name, and he cried at birth. But around 14 months, he suddenly started showing signs of regression. He was completely fine until 13 months, and then the delays became noticeable.

I stopped all screen time completely when he was around 18 months old. Now he's two and a half years old, and we've seen a lot of improvement. His eye contact has improved.

He responds to his name, and he has started speaking a few words. The progress has been significant. Do you think this child had virtual autism?

[Kelley Jensen] (9:29 - 9:46)
That's pretty interesting, probably not, because you do get that. I certainly have that with my son, where he did seem to have a regression of somewhere between 14 and 18 months, but it was a little different than that, right?

[Julianna Scott] (9:46 - 10:04)
I don't know what this scenario is. Again, as we always say, social media, I don't have all the context. I'm sure this isn't a snap.

This is a little, tiny, little snapshot. This isn't the whole picture. But good for you for stopped all screen time when he was around 18 months old.

[Kelley Jensen] (10:04 - 10:13)
I just want to know, I guess I don't have a newborn, or I don't have a young baby. What are they looking at?

[Julianna Scott] (10:13 - 10:53)
I don't know. Yes, I know. I know.

Again, we're dating ourselves. I totally understand, because phone addiction and all that, I'm there. We just had TV, and we had Baby Einstein and all that stuff.

I definitely use- Oh my God, yeah, Leapfrog. Yeah, I mean, one of the first things the doctor who diagnosed my son told us to do was some sort of interactive computer program. So we were on computers and things.

But yeah, I mean, obviously, I know what screen time is. I don't think they're looking at educational things. There is just entertainment.

[Kelley Jensen] (10:54 - 11:01)
Like what? Is it songs they're singing? Is it like Barney, but on your phone?

Is that what- I guess, I don't know.

[Julianna Scott] (11:01 - 11:02)
I don't get it.

[Kelley Jensen] (11:02 - 11:04)
Okay, what else? What else do they say?

[Julianna Scott] (11:04 - 11:24)
Okay, so most of the words that my son gets is from videos he watches on TV and gadgets. We never taught him to count one to 100, but one day he knows it. Even all kinds of animals that we never heard before.

We don't have any other younger kids inside the house as well as in the neighborhood. That's why most of the time he gets is on his gadget. I guess there is good and bad effects of screen time.

[Kelley Jensen] (11:26 - 12:00)
Gee, he could read a book. Yeah. So, yeah, sure.

I mean, you know, again- I think it's important. And that's fair because they do learn some of the rudimental numbers and letters and colors. And they do learn that stuff very quickly.

But it's not a form of communication. It's just developing words and developing language. And you need to pull out the communication from there and use those tools.

There's no substitute for him looking at you, you looking at him.

[Julianna Scott] (12:00 - 12:17)
And also, yeah, like saying like, you know, we never taught him to count one to 100. Well, you know, you could. Yeah, you probably should.

Or then it's not the- My point is, it's not the only way they're going to learn to count one to 100.

[Kelley Jensen] (12:18 - 12:26)
Right. And you don't get a reward for getting them to count to 100 quicker if you sacrifice the way they communicate. Right, right.

[Julianna Scott] (12:26 - 12:50)
So I've got a couple more like these. Okay, I feel bad as well. My son doesn't really sit on electronics all day.

He'd rather go outside when he's on electronics. He's doing mainly learning things. So I don't mind it.

But I feel so bad because they told me he was probably nonverbal from not being around anybody, being able to get that social interaction because it's just me and him and we don't have anyone. I definitely cry about it a lot.

[Kelley Jensen] (12:50 - 12:58)
Again, all you got to do is take the phone away. Now that he has all these great skills that he's learned from the screen. Right.

Take the screen away and practice.

[Julianna Scott] (12:59 - 13:14)
And I'm a little confused about not being around anybody. I mean, there are ways to be around people. What's the matter with art?

Right. Yeah. So that was a little confusing to me too.

And these are all people in a discussion about virtual autism.

[Kelley Jensen] (13:14 - 13:54)
It's kind of strange because when we- It sort of ended when you had the second child because it got to be too overwhelming. But when you had just one child, you want to get out of the house. It was like you would pack up for the day and you'd go to the park or you'd go, I don't know, you do things to get them out of the house until it was nap time, right?

And that was just something that we did. But it doesn't sound like people do that as much anymore. They are kind of home all morning.

Right. Kids are kind of occupied with the iPad. Right.

Maybe you're doing your own- Maybe you're doing your own work. Work from home. Right.

Kind of a thing. But I do think that those experiences of going to the park, those little trips to the grocery store, all of that is, I mean, that's where- Yeah.

[Julianna Scott] (13:54 - 14:25)
Well, I even see that at the grocery store or something. And a kid is in the cart and they're holding a phone or something. And I remember that's when I was really talkative with mine.

I was that annoying parent who's going, oh, look at the apples or whatever. Apple. Right, right.

I mean, it's annoying. And I see those moms too. And I'm like, ugh.

But you're missing an opportunity. I get it. It's easier.

But again, back to basics.

[Kelley Jensen] (14:25 - 15:06)
Well, and my suggestion, from zero to three, that's about as easy as it gets. I know you don't think it is, but you can keep them entertained from zero to three. I mean, zero, they're not even mobile.

Save my suggestion to any parents that are listening to this that take what we had to say seriously. Save those screens for potty training. Yeah, high value reward.

Make it the high value reward when it's time to get on that potty. And then they only get the screen when you're trying to teach them how to go to the bathroom. Absolutely.

That would be my suggestion. If I would have had the iPad for that time, that would have been great.

[Julianna Scott] (15:06 - 15:59)
Yeah. Okay, I've got one last one. This episode of Refrigerator Moms is brought to you by Brain Performance Technologies.

Brain Performance Technologies is a specialty mental health clinic that offers magnetic e-resonance therapy, or MERT, for autistic people age three or older. MERT is a transcranial magnetic stimulation protocol that utilizes an EEG diagnostic to deliver personalized magnetic pulses to stimulate the brain and build neural pathways effective in managing autistic symptoms. Again, another response to someone going through this.

I understand what you're going through. I had to go to work and my mother-in-law watched my child that first year. I told her over and over, no TV.

She lied to my face, and I came home early many times to see her with him in front of the TV. She did a lot of this BS. She would say she would do what I asked and then find her doing the opposite.

If he is autistic because of her, I'll never forgive myself or her. Ow!

[Kelley Jensen] (16:00 - 16:08)
I know. Yeah, well, first of all, we're not talking about TV, they said. The gist of it is that it's not a TV thing.

[Julianna Scott] (16:08 - 16:45)
I wonder why that is. Well, I think it's the addiction factor. Yeah, TV is not as addictive.

You don't have as much control over the programming, maybe. Right, right. Or you can't carry it with you all the time.

It's not in the car. It's not everywhere. It's like we're not addicted.

Well, I'm a little addicted to TV. I mean, we're not addicted to TV as much as we are our phones. Let's talk about the dopamine hit of looking at a phone or playing a game or all of those things that make screens so addictive.

I mean, a lot of the kids, OK, back to your original question, I think a lot of them are playing games. But again, yeah, to this one, if he's autistic, he's not autistic because of TV. Like, let's make that clear.

[Kelley Jensen] (16:45 - 16:50)
Well, and first of all, we have established that virtual autism is not true autism.

[Julianna Scott] (16:51 - 16:51)
No, no.

[Kelley Jensen] (16:51 - 17:03)
So there's a simple fix there. Second of all, it's grandma's babysitting, probably for free. Right.

Cut her some slack. It was TV and they were watching it together. Right.

So, I mean, what was grandma watching?

[Julianna Scott] (17:04 - 17:04)
I don't know.

[Kelley Jensen] (17:04 - 17:05)
She might have been watching it with him.

[Julianna Scott] (17:06 - 17:43)
And, you know, I mean, if your kid's autistic, it might be because of you or her, your genetics. But it's not your fault. And don't blame someone.

Like, don't blame someone for that. You should not blame yourself or anyone else for your child's autism. But I, you know, again, from the very little information I have, if you're basing his symptoms on TV screens, you know, in my unprofessional opinion, he's fine.

Just, you know, again, yeah, you're getting free babysitting. You might have to put up with a shortened attention span.

[Kelley Jensen] (17:44 - 18:12)
Exactly. All right. Well, we are going to get very into screen time in a future episode.

It is a hot topic with some people getting very angry if you suggest limiting screens at all. I'm sure that the word virtual autism is going to make their heads explode. Yes.

Merit on all sides. Count to one to a hundred in, you know, no time, but at the sacrifice of what. So we're going to get into all of that at a future episode and a future paper.

[Julianna Scott] (18:12 - 18:42)
Sounds good. Thanks for listening. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Refrigerator Moms.

We have a free download that includes a full list of practical to-dos we shared in this episode on our website. Our refrigerator paper, our version of the white paper, includes additional what-would-we-dos and background information on everything we talked about today. Find it on our website, RefrigeratorMoms.com, where you can also sign up for our newsletter. We'd also love to hear your questions. Send them in along with future podcast topics by connecting with us on your favorite social media.

[Kelley Jensen] (18:43 - 18:43)
Thanks for listening.

[Julianna Scott] (18:44 - 19:28)
Please note that the information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only, and it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. The opinions and views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the hosts and guests.

Any recommendations or suggestions made are based on personal experiences and beliefs and should not be taken as definitive advice. It's important to consult with appropriate professionals for personalized guidance. A full list of citations and sources for this episode can be found in our refrigerator paper available on our website.