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Explore the world of driver recruiting with the Hire Truckers Podcast! Join us as we talk to recruiting experts, offering industry insights, marketing trends, and motivation to enhance your recruiting skills. Whether you're a seasoned recruiter or just starting, our podcast is here to help you level up your game in the trucking industry.
Welcome to the Hire Truckers podcast, where we interview experts in driver recruiting. We provide industry insights, marketing trends, and motivation to help you level up your recruiting game. Welcome to the Hire Truckers podcast. I'm your host, Erin Craddock. And today, we have Deborah g on with CAG Canada.
Aaron Craddock:We're super excited to have her on the show. She came recommended from some different people in women in trucking that met with Ginger and, threw out her name. And so we're excited to have her on the show, and I'm excited to dive into some different topics with her. So she's been in the industry over 20 years, and part of that was actually as a driver starting or went into a driver job about 20 years ago and then, transitioned into multiple other roles, and then now is in an HR role at KAG Canada. So thanks for being on the show today, Deborah.
Deborah Gee:Thank you for having me.
Aaron Craddock:So first, I wanna dive right into it in, like, what got you into, trucking? Like, what got you into trucking?
Deborah Gee:I was in an office job that I did not enjoy, and I was commuting quite a long way per day. And at that time, you were allowed to have CVs in your vehicle. So I was talking to drivers as I was going down the road, asking them about their day and what their career was like. And, I said, like, can girls do this? And they said, well, we can, but I don't know why you would want to.
Deborah Gee:I said, I really think I want to because I'm not very happy at my job. So I continued on with that for still quite some time, and then my mom was suffering from mental health issues and she ended up committing suicide, and that was a great motivator to not be stuck in a place where you're not happy. Whatever you have to give up and change to move on with your life from the place where you're not happy, it has to be done. It was a great motivator. Obviously, a terrible, terrible time and took a lot of time to recover, but well worth the lessons learned in life.
Aaron Craddock:Well, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss of your mom and, yeah, I know, you know, I just know I think it's important that we, you know, talk about hard subjects like that just because, like, I've been through seasons of, depression, anxiety. I mean, not diagnosed, but just different hard seasons. Mhmm. And then, yeah, I think I think we just I think with suicide and and things like that, like, I think just communicating. Like, I've had several people reach out to me that have been struggling with different thoughts at different times, and and and that's the biggest thing is, like, we're all struggling with different types of things.
Aaron Craddock:And but when you share a struggle, like, it just, you know, takes away some of the power of it. And so yes. So I appreciate you being vulnerable and and bringing that up. And so how old were you when like that happened? And then versus like, what's the timeline?
Aaron Craddock:Like the her committing suicide versus like when you started in your 20s?
Deborah Gee:Twenties. So, yeah, quite young really to lose lose a parent like that. It was, it was a shock as it is often to the family. You don't understand you understand what they're going through. You see it every day, but you don't necessarily understand what the consequences of their thought process is.
Deborah Gee:But, I was able to start crossing the border and get my license when I was 21. So that's as soon as I hit the 21 mark, that's when I started making a move towards that career goal.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. So that was close so it was around the same time. And what so when I was reading through the notes, getting ready for this call, one of the things was you had to, like, make some, like, life changes to, like, get in the truck and do that. Can you walk through, like, some of those things that you did?
Deborah Gee:I had a really swanky apartment. Absolutely adored it. It was glorious. Right overlooking a park. I felt like I was living in New York.
Deborah Gee:It was just gorgeous and I had a cute little pet that I had to rehome because of the situation. I went from that lovely apartment down to a 1 bedroom apartment in a basement in somebody's home just to control my expenses because I knew it was gonna be hard times. So there's a huge transition when you're going from a full time income to getting your license, and the in between time when you get your license and you're getting that experience is also a financial hardship. It is a long lasting internship that you need to to complete, and financially, it is a bit of a struggle.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. So you had yeah. So that's a lot of change. So you had to rehome your pet, change from nice apartment to 1 bedroom? Like what?
Aaron Craddock:Again, I think people listening will be like, why would you? Yeah. Why would you do that? Like, why would you make that, that switch?
Deborah Gee:Well, I was single. There was nobody to support me. And obviously, there was going to be some financial strife in between the the internship. So I knew that I wouldn't be able to afford the lifestyle I had while I was learning the position even though I did have, as long as I was successful through the training program, employment secured, but a lot of companies will pay a newer driver less because it costs to train them and we we understand that. But it was less than half the income that I was earning at the time.
Deborah Gee:So, yeah, definitely had to make some adjustments and quickly to be able to succeed.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. And would you say it's still that challenging for drivers getting into it nowadays?
Deborah Gee:Like Unfortunately, yeah, I do. Yeah. There's a big gap in the industry between getting licensed, which I think there's quite a bit of support in Canada, especially we've got grant programs and different groups that put together assistance for people to get their license. But the in between training and being a tenured driver, having that 1 or 2 years experience, as a bare minimum is super hard on the individual.
Aaron Craddock:So next question I had is specifically around, like, what different things do you whether it's like reading or listen to or participate in to kind of learn and continue just on the growth journey.
Deborah Gee:For transition in my career or just to as continuing education in this career?
Aaron Craddock:I would say for, I mean, honestly, we can go either direction. So like, just what are you learning? How are you growing? And it can be career or per or per personally.
Deborah Gee:When I decided I wanted to get out of the truck and get into an office again, I was my main goal was dispatch, so I ended up going back to school and learning I went through the Canadian Institute of Traffic and Technology to get my certification, and ended up being on the logistics side of things. And I grew my career that way, stepping out of the truck was a hard decision and a big decision, and it was just more about, growing as an individual than than necessarily giving up the the trucking life because it was it was really good to me. I quite enjoyed it and, eventually fell into recruiting, but I volunteer is basically I think networking is the strongest tool we have, each other and learning from each other and, continuing hard conversations about the industry and about, people and how to take care of them. So I volunteer with the Women's Trucking Federation of Canada. That's my main focus right now for my volunteer work, and it's a great network of individuals who love trucking and want to get more people involved and want to keep them safe.
Aaron Craddock:So what all what all causes does, like, the Women in Trucking Federation in Canada kinda focus on that they support or raise awareness for?
Deborah Gee:Our main focus right now is safety. Both safety as a driver out on the road. So personal awareness, situational awareness, courses, along those lines. We're also, really educating people on human trafficking, how to manage it should you run into a situation where you feel that that's an issue, Or how to educate people who are in that situation on how to change their circumstances? And in general, just raising awareness to make it more comfortable for people to talk about.
Deborah Gee:Mhmm.
Aaron Craddock:Yeah. Are you familiar with truckers against trafficking?
Deborah Gee:Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Definitely working in conjunction and following some of their information sessions. Definitely, they're doing having a big impact on on it as well.
Aaron Craddock:Awesome. We actually had Michael Larson on the podcast a few episodes ago, so it was fun, you know, hearing more about it. And I say fun. I mean, it was it was actually a hard conversation just knowing It is. Knowing what all is going on and the reality to it.
Aaron Craddock:And, you know, just and I even asked him to share just some hard stories. And, but the more we can be aware of, like, the things going on around us that we may just not be paying attention to, then maybe next time we'll notice and might be able to, you know, help somebody. Because it's, it's just awareness awareness and noticing your surroundings and what's going on and and just, you know, asking questions when things seem off or or reporting it.
Deborah Gee:So Absolutely. Yeah. And I have to say, looking back, I would have been in several situations where I could have made a difference or said something. I didn't know how, and I really wasn't aware of what the situation was. It's you when you grow up and you have hindsight and you see things that, you recall and go, oh, I I should have done something or I could have done something, but you know better and you do better and going forward, obviously, I can make an impact, but it, that education and that awareness is definitely helpful since I've learned a lot as I've been helping the group and learning with them.
Aaron Craddock:That's awesome. What got you into that?
Deborah Gee:The Women's Truck Confederation in Canada? Mhmm. I met with Shelly and again, networking. I just love getting to gather with groups of people who like talk trucking because I can do that all day. But, yeah, we just she was a a driver and we ended up talking, she says I'd really like to start up, like a Canadian Women's Trucking Federation.
Deborah Gee:I'm like that's a great idea, so this is a lot of work if you're up for it, and she's, I'm up for it. And, she was still driving at the time, and she just started talking to people and gaining interest and getting a bunch of women that have been in the interest industry for a long time, and that's in the office and behind the wheel. We have a great group of women that are and men that are willing to contribute to the progression of information systems and bring up topics that we need to address or try to bring forward to the government and lobby them for changes or more attention in certain areas like that gap between getting your license and being a tenured driver.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. Do you see do you see more women getting into the industry? Like in the, like as driving like since just even looking back over the last couple of decades?
Deborah Gee:With the progression of the trucks them selves, I think that more women are willing to look at this as a career, and there's a lot more careers available as far as being a driver. So you don't necessarily have to be that, highway cowboy type situation. You can actually be home every couple of days or more. It makes it more comfortable and, more accessible for women to be in the industry. So I do see more women coming through or asking questions about it.
Deborah Gee:I think there's still a little bit of a fear of it being a male dominated industry, but I honestly most of my coworkers were very supportive, and all they want to do is is share their information and and their stories. So it doesn't need to be intimidating, and that's why the Women's Star Confederation is there just to say, yes. You can do this, and this is what you need to do to get where you want
Aaron Craddock:to be. Mhmm. Yeah. I've been I've been impressed just with all the women across the industry in all different roles. And I think it's, you know, I've seen just even the 14 years I've been in the industry, just more and more women in leadership positions.
Aaron Craddock:And the yeah. And I think in my generation, like, they're like, at least I wasn't raised with, like, any stigma towards a woman doing a certain job in the industry versus a man. And and and so, yeah, I've had a lot of counterparts in leadership that have been, you know, better in me in a lot of areas. And then and and yeah. I just I think I think we should continue to promote, you know, more more women in leadership.
Aaron Craddock:And that's one thing Ginger is really, really passionate about that met with you is like expanding the mountaintop and and not and not and it's not even just the way she communicated the messaging to me too, is it's not even just women in leadership. It's it's everyone in leadership. Like, how do we just promote and do things in community? That's why that's why when you talk about, like, doing, like, these different associations and just talking trucking with people, it's just so important to do life in community and share ideas and grow from one another. Like, we don't have to don't have to do this along alone, but you you have to be intentional about that, though.
Aaron Craddock:And so seek out those groups and put yourself out there. And and it just takes time, like, to build the relationships and and things like that.
Deborah Gee:We have several women that do the ice roads every year. So Northwest Territories up there on the ice, and we have ice roads in Manitoba and Saskatchewan as well. And I am so excited. Just to like I realize everybody's excited to head up and and do the winter roads because it's a big deal and a huge part of our northern economy in Canada, so everybody is is behind at a 100%, but when I see, women in the trucks going up there, and some of them have been doing it for a long long time, they're just super supportive of their co drivers and their coworkers and making sure that everybody knows what they need to do to stay safe and, you know, just exemplary coworkers to to be with, but I'm uber jealous that they're up there and I'm not.
Aaron Craddock:So have you ever done the ice road? Did you ever
Deborah Gee:No. No. Like I say, so jealous and that the photos that we, collect, we ask drivers to send photos in all the time when they're out and about, but in particular with the ice roads, the photos are just so unique and so beautiful.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. Yeah. When I was, I went to, like, the back when they had the Great American Trucking Show in Dallas every year. One of the years, I went the I met one of the guys that was on the show, Ice Road Truckers.
Deborah Gee:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Craddock:And then ended up, I was able to go out with him afterwards and we went bowling and,
Deborah Gee:Oh, that's fun.
Aaron Craddock:Yeah. And honestly, I got to talk to him over an hour and just ask questions about what it's like. And yeah. And I was amazed that it's like is as dangerous as the show makes it out to be. Like, there are a lot of dangers and then things get scary at times.
Aaron Craddock:And then and then also also it could be really profitable for some of those drivers. But, yeah, I'm just passionate. I used to I used to watch that show religiously. Like, I just think it's so cool.
Deborah Gee:It is cool.
Aaron Craddock:Yeah. And just the fact like you're on ice and you could literally, your truck could fall through and
Deborah Gee:it They've changed
Aaron Craddock:a lot.
Deborah Gee:They've got ground radar that they check the thickness of the ice, so there's no real danger anymore of going through the ice. When they first started up, it's definitely a risk. They have speed limits, they have people monitoring everything, so they're now very confident in the safety of those roads, Like, nobody goes over 25 kilometers an hour, which is quite painful when you're doing 600 kilometers round trip, but it's, is definitely a very safe environment, but it's still harsh environment. It's still very, very cold. Your equipment is suffering.
Deborah Gee:If you're outside, you're suffering, and it's just different circumstances for sure.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. So it's it's a safe environment, but just more of a harsh environment now.
Deborah Gee:Yeah. And it's safe, like a lot of things that we do in trucking, they're safe as long as you follow the procedures and the rules that are set in place and you know what you should be doing and what you shouldn't be. And you ask questions when you don't know, and a lot of those circumstances will definitely keep you in line and home safe.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. Do they like, with some of that, like, improvement and monitoring and things like that, do they shut down the roads for longer periods of time?
Deborah Gee:Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And everybody's in a convoy, so there's 2 people on the front and the back of that line that are 10 year drivers that have been up there for a year or 2, and then the people that are newer to the road will be in the middle and no one is left behind if there's any sort of issue.
Aaron Craddock:That's so cool. Mhmm. And so how many drivers do you guys have across, Canada, like with CAG Canada? 850. 850.
Aaron Craddock:Yeah. And then how many and then are you involved in the US side at all or just the Canada side?
Deborah Gee:We obviously talk to our counterparts in the US, but as far as recruitment, the rules are much different between the US and Canada. So we generally just will share ideas and marketing ideas and things like that. But for the most part, we're fairly separate.
Aaron Craddock:That's awesome. So kind of going into you mentioned marketing ideas, like what what's working right now in terms of like marketing or what are you guys doing currently?
Deborah Gee:We market for, we do a lot of seasonal hauls. So again, the winter roads is 1. We also have, helping the farmers by providing fertilizer. Those are seasons that we will advertise socially like on Facebook and Instagram, those type of things, but we use marketing on those social platforms more to keep engagement with our current employees. We have a couple of employee groups where you can complain or praise different situations, but we just wanna keep in touch and see what your, like, family celebration was and pictures on the road.
Deborah Gee:And when you get your truck washed and you're feeling fancy, send us a photo. Engagement and retention really does help. It makes us feel closer to our drivers when we're in the office and we're not out there beside them every day, and, they're proud. They're proud of what they do, so they get to show that off. But as far as marketing in general, being out in the community and truck shows, anything you can do to be out there as an employee and a representative of your company to just be part of what's going on in the rest of the world.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. So what are you excited about in the trucking industry just going forward?
Deborah Gee:Oh, there's so much. There's, one thing I love about this industry is it's never stagnant. There's always something new coming up. There's different types of vehicles or different styles of vehicles and trailers and new safety engagement and legislation that you have to comply with, compared to where it was 20 years ago. Drivers have a much safer work environment than they used to, and I absolutely love that.
Deborah Gee:There's no reason to ever be bored in this industry, so I get excited about pretty much everything that pops up. I really love the the respect and the attention that drivers are getting these days as far as being honored for what they do, for the sacrifices they make, for the effort they put in day after day, and all the rules and regulations that they follow to keep everybody else safe on the roads.
Aaron Craddock:So what's kind of changed in the industry, like for drivers to be like more respected and kind of noticed now? Because you kind of mentioned that that, I think some of it has to do with media.
Deborah Gee:Like, you were mentioning TV shows with
Aaron Craddock:regards to
Deborah Gee:when I was a kid, it was BJ and the Bear. I don't know if you're probably too young to remember that one, but that was my first crush in the world. And, I think COVID also drew a lot of attention when people saw empty shelves in stores to say that these people were still working through it and and doing what they could to keep everybody supplied and their homes full of whatever they needed to have.
Aaron Craddock:Yeah. If I if I try to pinpoint it, I would kinda say the same thing. Like, I feel like just since COVID, there's been more awareness of, know, getting the things that we need and, and, yeah, just media promoting that. Because you really don't realize how critical an industry is until there's disruption. Absolutely.
Aaron Craddock:Yeah. And since there's been that disruption, I think there's more of a focus. And then and there's new things we have to do to like, with litigation increasing in the industry and just costs going up in so many different areas. Like, it's it's definitely an industry. The the reason I like the industry so much is just that it is challenging and ever moving to your point.
Aaron Craddock:Yeah. And before this, I got into this industry, I changed jobs like every, it was like I was in a job a year and then moved to another one for a year. But now I feel like I've had 14 different jobs being in the industry 14 years because even though I was in the same role for some of those years, just because it's it's changed. And and then I'm dealing with, like, kind of a double dynamic of transportation changes changing and then all the cycles, but then recruitment marketing changing and and just marketing trends. Because, you know, what works today may not work 6 months from now, and, at least as well as it was.
Aaron Craddock:And so, I, yeah, I just I just love the challenge of it.
Deborah Gee:Yeah. And I think recruitment has changed quite a bit. It used to be all about speed, getting the driver in the seat as soon as possible, and the challenge was to do that with all the safety regulations in mind and completed before that driver was in the seat. And I think people, especially in the last few years, have changed their mindset to that speed, both on the driver's side and on the recruitment side to take a bit of time, talk to people about what they want. Is this right for your lifestyle?
Deborah Gee:If you have family, is that right for them as well? Have you talked to them? There's a lot more communication that's done in the front door to express and be very transparent about who you are as a company and what the position entails so that people are happy and they're gonna stay. Like, it's very stressful and people to change jobs, and they don't really want to do it and everybody talks about well, sorry. Industry talks about people, drivers in particular being, finicky and moving on for an extra 25¢ here or there.
Deborah Gee:And I I don't believe that that's the overall trend churn wise. As you gain more experience, you may wanna try something different, but I think that the tendency for longevity that couple of years in the seat in the same seat is increasing overall.
Aaron Craddock:Just with that extra communication on the front end?
Deborah Gee:The value added. Absolutely. Just making sure that the person has the right, and don't be afraid to say no on either side because it's not what you want. Dollars and cents matter to everybody. There's no doubt about it, but there's not a huge difference unless you're going into a specialty market.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. So one one of the questions that that Ginger had asked that you touched on, like brought out that you were asked if you wanted to get into recruiting, and you said no initially because you're brash and too direct. And and I, I may be getting getting the exact wording incorrect, but the how have you, you know, how has that helped you, like, being really direct in recruiting? And then how have you kinda continue to grow in that area?
Deborah Gee:That's a great question. Honestly, I didn't expect it to help me when I first got into it, but it really has Being, again, that transparency and that's, I guess, what I really mean when I say I'm being honest, and I tell people the good and the bad parts of any job that we have available, or if they want this career, what's the good and the bad. I think it's important that you tell people what their worst day is gonna look like, because we all have them and that's very difficult to get through. Also, the stress of when you're learning, be patient with yourself, take things slow, and these are the challenges you're gonna be having. You're gonna be sore.
Deborah Gee:Like, there's there's some labor involved with these positions. So even as a driver, if you're in the seat for your first 8 hours, you're gonna be sore. You gotta pull over and stop and and get out every once in a while, but I really enjoy also this industry overall, tends to be full of people like me, and I don't think I necessarily knew that from the office side of things. Very dynamic group. Again, smart people who have opinions and strong ones and definitely are not afraid to voice them, and it is just so much fun.
Deborah Gee:Absolutely love it.
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Aaron Craddock:Visit trucking clicks.com or call 512-982-0816 today. So what what events do you go to in Canada? Like you mentioned, like some different trucking shows. Is it just just on your side of the border or do you also come stateside too?
Deborah Gee:Oh, we generally allow our our, US counterparts to go to the US truck shows and there's a lot of community truck shows like show and shines and family events or like, we have an event in a couple of provinces here. It's called, touch a truck event, and it is geared towards kids and families. And basically a bunch of people who have trucks of all sorts, tow trucks, fire engines, our tanker trucks all get together and kids just climb anywhere and all over these vehicles for a day. It is an absolute hoot. They lose their minds like it is a day of earplugs because the horns are just going 100 percent, all day, but, those type of events in your community they they usually are held for a sponsorship, so it's donation to get in and go to a good cause to to help everything local, but also you get to see the kids just absolutely having a hoot, climbing inside the vehicles.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. So what was that one called?
Deborah Gee:Touch A Truck.
Aaron Craddock:Touch A Truck.
Deborah Gee:Mhmm. There's there's one in Brandon, Manitoba, and then there's one in Edmonton here too, but I'm hoping it catches on in other locations because it really does bring some joy into your day.
Aaron Craddock:Yeah. So I have a 4 year old, like, he's turned 4 and then a 14 month old, 2 boys. And I was just thinking my, my 4 year old would love that. Right. And he and he hasn't been in, you know, a big rig yet or semi truck or 18 wheeler.
Aaron Craddock:And and so yeah. But he has sat in a fire truck. There was, like, a new a new fire truck at a big gas station chain here, and then they met the guy and got to sit up in the truck. But, yeah, he's just yeah. I I don't think it's just because I'm in the industry and I bring trucks home and stuff.
Aaron Craddock:I think just kids are just naturally drawn to, like, big vehicles and
Deborah Gee:But you never get to be close to them. And like, if you're not in the industry, you don't actually know what it looks like inside of a truck, and this is an opportunity to see that. It's an opportunity for these companies to show off their vehicles because they spend a lot of money and a lot of time around them. So a little pride in your ride is not a bad thing at all. And I mean, boom trucks and tow trucks and all of those are just absolutely fascinating.
Deborah Gee:It's a great day.
Aaron Craddock:Mhmm. That's cool. I'm gonna have to make that happen, and I'm gonna see if there's some
Deborah Gee:That'd be
Aaron Craddock:great. Some some in the US too. Thank you. Thank you for your time today, Deborah. Have a great week.
Deborah Gee:Cheers. Thank you very much.
Aaron Craddock:Our goal with the Hire Truckers podcast is to provide industry insights, marketing trends, and motivation to help you level up your recruiting game. Thank you for joining us today. And if we added value, please take 10 seconds to share this with your network.