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As a small business owner, you need to be a lot of things to make your business go—but you don't have to be a marketer alone. Join host Dave Charest, Director of Small Business Success at Constant Contact, and Kelsi Carter, Brand Production Coordinator, as they explore what it really takes to market your business. Even if marketing's not your thing! You'll hear from small business leaders just like you along with industry experts as they share their stories, challenges, and best advice to get real results. This is the 2x Webby Award Honoree Be A Marketer podcast! New episodes coming in July!
[0:00] Dave Charest: On today's episode, you'll hear from someone who's gone from corporate telecom to building one of the biggest B2B social audiences out there. We talk about how small businesses can turn social media into something useful, not overwhelming, and how showing up online might just be your best marketing move. This is the Be a Marketer podcast.
My name is Dave Charest, director of small businesses at Constant Contact, and I help small business owners like you make sense of online marketing. And on this we'll explore what it really takes to market your business, even if marketing's not your thing. No jargon, no hype, just real stories to inspire you and practical advice you can act on. So remember, friend, you can be a marketer, and at Constant Contact, we're here to help.
[01:07] Dave Charest: Well, hello friend and thanks for joining us for another episode of the Be a Marketer podcast.
[01:12] Dave Charest: My co-conspirator behind the mic. Say hello to Kelsi Carter.
[01:16] Kelsi Carter: Hello. I was waiting for people to say I was just like, I don't know for conversation though it didn't happen.
[01:22] All right, well, you know, next time we'll have to send you a mic, dear listeners, so you can actually say hello to Kelsi Carter. I know I
[01:29] Kelsi Carter: I know I want to hear from them.
[01:31] Dave Charest: Kelsi, good to see you as always.
[01:34] Kelsi Carter Good to see you.
[01:36] Dave Charest: I'm excited about this episode today because we hit on some of the things that I think that, well, you've probably noticed about me.
[01:40] Dave Charest: Things that we've even done and we'll talk about this. I don't know if we've actually talked about this before, but for those of you who don't know, Kelsi and I from time to time will, aside from doing this podcast, we will get together to just have a conversation on, on the microphone. So we get a little bit more comfortable talking to each other on the microphone, and
[02:02] Dave Charest: hopefully you're OK with
[02:03] Dave Charest: how
[02:04] Dave Charest: we're
[02:04] Dave Charest: talking to you,
[02:05] Dave Charest: but it makes us a little
[02:06] Dave Charest: bit more comfortable and I love this idea of really
[02:10] Dave Charest: Approaching things as a practitioner, right, and really practicing and, and I just come from that mindset of doing something. I think it's a good mindset to have in marketing, you should do something, learn from it, make adjustments, and I think that's all there. I mean, how have you found that, I guess practicing
[02:27] Dave Charest: and training that we've done? How does that work for you? I
[02:30] Kelsi Carter: love it honestly. I love that we just talk about any topic we want um for the day.
[02:35] Kelsi Carter: And then also it just it does, it gets me more comfortable because you know, like you've been doing this, you're a public speaker, you do all of these things and I am not, I'm very much like behind the camera person. And so just getting comfortable with you and just like are like bouncing off each other, it's helped me tremendously and I feel like you can definitely tell what these episodes compared to when I first started, like how maybe like awkward I sounded or something, but now I'm feeling more comfortable.
[03:01] Dave Charest: Yeah, no, you definitely realize and recognize the changes and
[03:05] Dave Charest: Yeah, I think that's just it at the end of the day, right, just be more comfortable and comfortable with things not necessarily being perfect all the time, right? I think, you know. Yeah,
[03:14] Kelsi Carter: I think that was something I had to reset my expectations because when we first started doing it, I'm like, I'm not good at this, like why, like, I'm not good at this. And I was getting mad at myself that I wasn't like immediately like, super podcast persona, but that was just an unrealistic expectation I put on myself.
[03:32] Kelsi Carter: Because I'm just starting, so it does take practice. Like you can't just expect to be perfect and if you're not the first try, that is OK, like just keep doing it.
[03:40] Dave Charest: Yeah, well, I think you're doing great, uh,
[03:42] Dave Charest: continue to do what you're doing
[03:44] Dave Charest: and we'll practice those things. Yeah, but I think that's the big, the big thing, right, is that the doing allows you to have these opportunities to learn and grow, and it's the waiting because you don't think you're ready to do it, which actually hinders you a lot more than what you would expect. And so,
[04:00] Dave Charest: I'm excited about this episode today because it really centers on that idea of like showing up, learning by doing and when you think about just, you know, marketing and social media in particular, it's about improving your social media presence over time, right? So you know our guest today, even with thousands of videos and posts under his belt, right, really, he had to go through a lot of trial and error to get to this point and
[04:22] Dave Charest: And it's really that idea of being a practitioner, right? Building your craft, experimenting with tools and embracing really the long game, right? It's a body of work that you're creating that comes up again and again in our conversation today. So, Kelsi, who are we talking to?
[04:37] Kelsi Carter: Today's guest is Evan Krisel. He's a tech influencer, B2B content creator, and the founder of Va Health, an agency based in Boston, Massachusetts.
[04:46] Kelsi Carter: Pretty local to us. And he helps executives, founders and companies grow their influence and customer base through social media. Yeah, so
[04:54] Dave Charest: Evan, you know, he's, he's been doing this for a long time and he's built a huge audience really in the B2B space by focusing on consistency, clarity, and really just being human online. He doesn't just really talk about strategy, right? He kind of lives it and all that he's doing and he helps others do the same.
[05:11] Dave Charest: In our conversation today, you'll hear how showing up as a person, not just a brand, can really help build trust online, why consistency and community matter more than going viral, and what Evan thinks small businesses should do differently if they've got only 15 minutes a day for marketing. So let's go to Evan as he explains what he sees as a common misconception when it comes to using social media for business today.
[05:39] Evan Kirstel: I think there's a misunderstanding of reach and influence. It used to be, it was all about your number of followers, or number of connections or maybe how many people are on my email list, or how many people follow me on Instagram. And that is no longer really true. I mean, those are, are nice stats to have, but given the nature of AI and machine learning on the web and through research, and on all the platforms and Google and and YouTube and beyond,
[06:07] Evan Kirstel: It really is about the content that you're deploying, and the way the social platforms present that content to people it thinks will be interesting. So whether it's YouTube video or TikTok video, it's not about your followers, it's how that content is delivered to people it thinks might be interested in that content, and you can have, let's say, a quote unquote, viral post or really great post go get do extremely well based on the on the quality of the content, the words and the keywords that are indexed.
[06:37] Evan Kirstel: And the way the AI on the platform, and all the platforms use AI now to do this. It's not just TikTok, it's LinkedIn, it's Twitter, it's Facebook. It will present that content to people it thinks are interested. So, it's a complete change from social media, even 5 years ago, where it was all about your followers, and who they were, and how many you had. Now it's all about the content.
[07:00] Evan Kirstel: And how that content is understood and distributed by AI.
[07:04] Dave Charest: I would probably say there's probably a a misconception or that thought of like, you know, like everybody wants to go viral, like this type of thing, right, like and it's like, OK, but when you think about a small business owner, like, how important is it for them to show up as like the face of the business, right, as a way to put themselves out there, not just the logo, right, but like the people behind the business and.
[07:24] Dave Charest: And show up in a way that helps them build trust without even, you know, to your point here, like worrying about the big numbers of the followers, but really just focusing on that group that they are impacting.
[07:34] Evan Kirstel: Yeah, that's, that's absolutely right. And it's not even being the face of the business. It's about being a trusted source of content. I mean, a lot of my content isn't about me. It's not my picture, my persona up there in front all the time, all day, every day.
[07:48] Evan Kirstel: It's about interesting people, my clients, other thought leaders, getting industry insiders, uh, media and analysts, and and making them the focus of my content. So if you're a small business owner, it's not always about you, maybe it's about your employees. Hopefully it's about your customers and how much they love what you do, maybe it's the business down the road who who you know that or something happening in town or events.
[08:13] Evan Kirstel: Around town. So you wanna be that trusted source, you wanna curate interesting content, and you wanna be fun and funny and interesting in the process. So, there's this myth of you have to be the influencer. You're the face all the time, every time. And that's just not true. My, my best posts and tweets and blogs aren't about me. They're about someone who's way more interesting than I am, to be honest.
[08:36] Evan Kirstel: And I help position or promote that point of view and in turn, get a ton of goodness from that. Yeah,
[08:43] Dave Charest: that's a great point where I think it is about kind of it's sharing, I guess the point of view, the mission, like the thing that you're looking to um push forward. I don't want to say agenda because that's not the right word, but that idea of like what supports like the things that you're trying to get out there and it doesn't have to be about you.
[08:58] Dave Charest: You mentioned that idea of really being about the customer, which I think is probably number one, right? The audience that you're trying to reach really needs to resonate with the types of things that you're sharing. What kinds of things would you recommend to somebody, maybe a small business owner just kind of starting out, right? Like how do they start to think about like, well, because there's always that question like, what do I post, right? Like, what do I do?
[09:17] Evan Kirstel: think it's about documenting the journey, and I think that's always most interesting, you know, if you're a coffee shop or
[09:17] Evan Kirstel: I
[09:23] Evan Kirstel: Maybe you're uh a doctor's office or your dentist's office around town. You may think it's kind of mundane and boring what you do. I'm actually fascinated by that. I'd love behind the scenes, you know, documenting a day in the life.
[09:37] Evan Kirstel: What happens behind the scenes in a dentist office for new patients? I mean, so it's being more of a documentary and of everything that's happening around you and with you, to you, the ups and downs, the highs, the lows, that reality, that's super interesting. So when I go to events, an event, maybe it's a big event like CES, I'm not just there to promote myself or or even my clients, but it's really the journey around CES, what's happening on the show floor, all the interesting insights, the excitement, the buzz.
[10:07] Evan Kirstel: And you could do that if you're a business owner, you could do that as an individual. And again, it's not necessarily about you, you might not even be on camera, you may sort of be behind the camera capturing just that journey, and that's what people are, I think most interested in.
[10:21] Dave Charest: It's funny, I mean, that's even a good reminder for myself, right? Like I feel like, oh yeah, right, like he probably should be doing more of like that just like, because it is interesting to people and it's interesting to me too, right? Like when you see that, and I think we get blinded by that idea that,
[10:34] Dave Charest: I guess we're so ingrained in it, like that's our day to day that like, really, why are you gonna find that interesting? You know, so you, you kind of missed that great opportunity there, right?
[10:42] Evan Kirstel: Yeah, behind the scenes of the podcast, you know, how does it work? What's happening? What's the journey, what are the struggles?
[10:50] Evan Kirstel: And you'll find a lot of kinship in that sort of thing.
[10:53] Dave Charest: Yeah. If folks are getting going, I mean, obviously, as a small business owner, juggling a lot of things, of course, and I think we all are too and to some degree and, and maybe even more so obviously in a small business place where you're kind of wearing all of the hats, but let's say somebody has the 15 minutes a day to do something on social and and what should they be doing? What should they be thinking about?
[11:13] Evan Kirstel: You should be first and foremost, trying to build your audience and do it in smart and clever ways, and so, that might be posting, might be writing a piece for community events, creating a a short form 92nd video, just off the top of your head, even without a script or all the production value, or shooting a quick update to your, your email.
[11:39] Evan Kirstel: List informing them of of something interesting, new, different, and so, just doing something impactful, but not trying to boil the ocean, like you said, you know, 15 minutes a day is fine for most small businesses. And if you keep it real, and you learn sort of best practices and have some of the good tools,
[11:58] Evan Kirstel: And that can really help you in the process.
[12:00] Dave Charest: Yeah. Is there any, obviously, I know it's gonna depend on kind of the business. I always say it's kind of like, you know, your personality, where you feel comfortable, but also obviously where your audience is, but from your perspective of what you're seeing out there right now, is there any particular social platform that is uh
[12:15] Dave Charest: Is maybe underutilized or providing a good value for people if they spent some time there.
[12:21] Evan Kirstel: Yeah, I think it's more about being a practitioner and and each platform, you kind of have to spend the time at some point.
[12:28] Evan Kirstel: Maybe on the weekend or evening in your spare time and get re familiar, in some cases re-familiar with the tool and how it works, and all the ins and outs, and learn about it, watch videos and how-tos. Many people like myself, I sort of wrote off Facebook and Instagram for B2B many years ago, but I came back to them over the pandemic.
[12:48] Evan Kirstel: And realized they're completely different than I recall even 5 years ago, and there's new capabilities, features, there's new, uh, opportunities for content creation, and there's new audiences, new demographics, and so kind of constantly you gotta think about being a practitioner and doing it smartly and not just relying on assumptions like, oh, well, Facebook's not good for my business because I, I tried it once 6 years ago and it never worked, or email marketing, oh, no, that doesn't work. I, I, I tried that and
[13:18] Evan Kirstel: You have to kind of practice with the tools, and maybe you're not good at it. Maybe, maybe you need to watch 18 hours of YouTube videos to figure out how to do some of this and up your game when it comes to the written word or doing audio or doing video shorts, and that's fine too. We all need to up our skill set as
[13:38] Evan Kirstel: well.
[13:38] Dave Charest: So you mentioned something there, obviously, you know, I tried it once, and obviously I think any of us who've been doing this for a while know that once.
[13:46] Dave Charest: It is never enough in terms of trying to do something. Is there a, is there a gauge or or an idea of like, how long should I invest in something? So if let's say I'm gonna small business owner, right, I'm going to give LinkedIn a try, what should I be thinking in terms of like how long I dedicate some time to that before I say, all right, that didn't work?
[14:08] Evan Kirstel: I think you have to be incredibly patient, and I don't think you can put a time frame on it. I really think people give up too quickly. I mean, look how many podcasts I see them every day. They do a few shows, or maybe a year or two, and then they just give up. And so, you know, I've been on social media for 15 years, and so, it, it's a long perspective, it's a long game. Most small business owners know that. It's not a matter of an overnight success that rarely happens.
[14:37] Evan Kirstel: You need to try and experiment, but also have tremendous patience, because I look back on, I've done thousands of videos at this point, thousands of podcasts. I look back on my 1st 10 or 100, and they were terrible, when I look back now. So, it's about patience and
[14:54] Evan Kirstel: And building your craft, because you keep doing something, it's like Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours. After about 10,000 hours, you get really, really skilled at it. Yeah,
[15:04] Dave Charest: I like that term craft, sorry.
[15:07] Evan Kirstel: And I think, yeah, giving up at 1000 hours is too soon.
[15:11] Dave Charest: Yeah, yeah, that idea of I think approaching it, as you know, you mentioned practitioner in that craft and really looking to improve on and learning and being open to what happens as you do those things. I
[15:20] Evan Kirstel: mean, even video podcasting here, you know how many microphones I went through I felt I sounded real and now I have AirPods.
[15:30] Evan Kirstel: In the early days, I mean, it must have been 15, and none of them worked well. The audio was terrible, and same for video and cameras. I mean, you really have to hone your craft and and patience is part of that. But
[15:42] Dave Charest: that's a great point, right, where that didn't stop you from doing something though, right? You did things with those things and then you
[15:49] Dave Charest: Learned from that, moved on and got to the next piece, and I'm always telling people like, if you didn't do it, like, imagine if I didn't do the 100 episodes that were before this one, you'd be starting at square one versus getting the benefit of doing the thing, although it's not perfect and and perfect, right, there never is one, but you don't get the benefit of actually going through the motion of doing those things, right?
[16:09] Evan Kirstel: Yeah, it's also serendipity. I mean, I wouldn't have had this TV show opportunity had I not done about 1000 live streams and been comfortable on camera. I hate it.
[16:18] Evan Kirstel: Yeah, video before the pandemic, I didn't like looking at myself. I really didn't like the idea of video. I thought it was too self-aware and self-promotional. And you gotta break down those comfort barriers.
[16:33] Evan Kirstel: And that that just takes time and effort.
[16:35] Dave Charest: How does a small business owner really get out there and you mentioned the audience, we mentioned community, but like, how do they actually get out there and start having more meaningful conversations in what they're doing online? Well,
[16:46] Evan Kirstel: I think it's about getting out of the real world, taking one of these, you know, these amazing audio, video, communication devices, and capturing content. And there's just so it's so easy now to create content and to edit and deploy content.
[17:00] Evan Kirstel: And we all do it, but we don't do often do it in a business context. Some of the most interesting people I know just aren't capturing content and using it for social media, and it's almost just an opportunity left on the table, lost opportunity.
[17:15] Evan Kirstel: They would just push themselves a little bit to to capture, create, and deploy content, or to write or to even use some of the tools that, if you're not a comfortable writer, everyone can be a writer now with GPT and yet they're not leveraging the tools, leveraging that opportunity, and I think that's, or they don't know. They they.
[17:35] Evan Kirstel: I know about some of the tools that are out there. So part of it is self-education as well, but you're really leaving a huge opportunity on the table.
[17:42] Dave Charest: I'm going to talk a little bit about AI here in a second, but before we get there, when you think about what you're doing, of course, right, you're building that audience, you're having these things in terms of engagements and and likes and comments and all of those types of things, but how do you help people see or measure the success of what they're actually doing, particularly when it comes in terms of like growing a business?
[18:03] Evan Kirstel: Yeah, I, I think it's sort of belief. I mean, I, I don't think you can necessarily can always measure the success. You just have to believe in what you're doing and be passionate about it, and patient, and the success will come through in unusual ways and through serendipity. I mean, people will see and connect with your
[18:22] Evan Kirstel: Content, you had no idea would have ever been interested. I mean, I, I've connected with some of the most interesting business leaders online through the content I put out, and who would have imagined, you know, like a Mark Benioff from Salesforce or Michael Dell or Jim Kramer, or, you know, the CEO of Microsoft would have followed me or
[18:40] Evan Kirstel: Connected with me in some fashion, and you just never know until you put yourself out there. So, people talk about ROI. ROI is something and metrics and measuring, that's a very short-term mindset. I mean, there is a value in measuring that.
[18:55] Evan Kirstel: But if you, if you look at the long game, uh you have to just believe that the goodness will come, and it does for most people.
[19:02] Dave Charest: Have
[19:02] Dave Charest: you ever seen a small business or or anything as an example where you saw something, they did something like from a creative standpoint, they published something that made you get like, oh, OK, that's pretty cool, right? Any examples like that? Yeah,
[19:15] Evan Kirstel: I
[19:15] Evan Kirstel: saw a cafe restaurant who had some interesting robotics, robots installed for delivering food around the restaurant. Oh.
[19:25] Evan Kirstel: And they took some interesting footage of that and put it out there, and it, it created a real curiosity and interest about the restaurant, and it was really fun and entertaining content, and I think it did really well for them. I mean, there's so many of us who are foodies and love good food, and so there's a whole, no matter what town or city you're in, that's a great way to attract clients.
[19:50] Evan Kirstel: is showing your product, your service, your food, your dining environment in a compelling way. And it's really, it's created kind of the haves and the have-nots. There's a whole group of business owners who are leveraging the sort of marketing and social technologies and those who aren't. And sadly, it's those who aren't who are often the ones who aren't growing, maybe go out of business, maybe aren't there for the long haul.
[20:15] Evan Kirstel: The sad reality is, if you're not doing it, your competition down the street, down the road, the next town probably is.
[20:22] Dave Charest: Yeah, I mean, we're definitely seeing, you know, we just, Constant Contact just recently did a report and, you know, finding about.
[20:27] Dave Charest: Businesses within the last 5 years are really more open to adopting the technologies, including things like AI, of course, uh, which I think we should probably shift to talking about here, right? But to your point, you really do run the risk of falling behind and getting left kind of in the dust there if you, you are not trying to embrace these things or at least learning how they can help you.
[20:46] Dave Charest: And you know, you mentioned earlier, of course, when you think of the social platforms, right, you got back onto Facebook and Instagram and much different from when we first started there, so these are always shifting and changing all the time, AI is changing how even some of this content is getting created.
[21:03] Dave Charest: What do you think businesses should keep their eye on and what do you also think is just noise right now? Yeah,
[21:09] Evan Kirstel: I think everything to do with personalization is really interesting. Content doesn't have to be one size fits all, and you can really tailor your content, your messaging.
[21:20] Evan Kirstel: In a way that was more difficult in the past. And I really think advertising, marketing content, visuals, copy, everything is being transformed with AI, so the opportunity to be visually interesting, actually stunning, to have great written content.
[21:37] Evan Kirstel: That's fun and interesting and funny with help from AI is just incredible. So, for me, like, I was a slow writer, I did it reluctantly, touch typing, but now with the power of my voice, I can create an email newsletter by speaking about topics that are of interesting and then having one of the Gen AI tools, Chat GPT.
[21:56] Evan Kirstel: Transform that automatically and format it and make it fun and and interesting with visuals in 5 minutes. Something that would have taken me in a traditional process, probably days to crank out at my rate of content production. So, it's really phenomenal, not just how much content we can now create, but how quickly we can do it, and how good it is, compared to what we might have judged ourselves.
[22:23] Evan Kirstel: A couple or a few years ago. So never a better time to dive into marketing and to dive into content creation.
[22:31] Dave Charest: Are there any, I don't wanna say pitfalls to watch out for, but maybe I do. Pitfalls to watch out for when you think about using these tools for helping you create content.
[22:39] Evan Kirstel: Yeah, I mean, there is kind of an AI slop effect. Sorry, it sounds terrible, but people putting out imagery and content that has the sameness to it. But again, that that's also, you can avoid that by using different techniques and different tools together, and adding your personal touch and being more creative than just in the prompting of the tools. And again, all these things are, you can find on YouTube how to do these creative.
[23:05] Evan Kirstel: But you don't want to just look like an AI bot. You want to have the human touch, so it is your personality, plus the addition of the AI tools that really where the magic happens. And I think, so don't be one of those persons that's generating images that are just clearly AI generated with copy that's clearly out of the chatbot, but use your own voice and tone and techniques to to humanize it and make it your own.
[23:31] Dave Charest: Yeah, we don't need more noise or slop out there to use your word, right? Exactly. So someone listening is feeling overwhelmed by kind of getting into all of this and in social media in particular, what would be one small step that you would tell them to take this week to start moving in in the right
[23:47] Dave Charest: direction?
[23:48] Evan Kirstel: I'll find someone to emulate, and I dare I say, copy. There's thought leaders that I look up to and I look at what they're doing and how they're doing it, and how they're making their videos, and I think, wow, I, I wanna do that, so I emulate.
[24:00] Evan Kirstel: Them. Is there a local business? Maybe look at what your competitors are doing, or a business down the road, and saying, wow, they're they're doing really well with TikTok videos, look how cool that is. I could do that in in my own way. And so, find someone to learn from, emulate, dare I say, copy in your own way, and then benchmark yourself and see how you can then improve.
[24:18] Evan Kirstel: That over time.
[24:19] Dave Charest: Cool. Evan, anything else you wanted to add or anything else you want to chat about before we wrap up here?
[24:24] Evan Kirstel: No, I think this is all good stuff, and we should also at some point talk about the downside of social, which is, you don't own any of this content, it's not yours, technically, it's owned and monetized by the platforms.
[24:36] Evan Kirstel: So, as much as I love social media, I, I make sure to own my content, I create written word blogs that I own and host on my website. I, you know, have podcasts that are mined through my RSS feed, and of course, my email list that I own, it's, it's mine. I can't be taken away.
[24:52] Evan Kirstel: And so, realize that there are dangers with social. You could be cut off at any time. I, I know people with millions of followers who've been demonetized, de-platform, act, so make sure you own your, your customers, own your network, and own your content, your email list as well.
[25:08] Dave Charest: Well, friend, let's recap some items from that discussion. Number one, document. Don't overthink. Evans suggests small businesses focus less on creating and more on capturing. Think about what's already happening in your day to day, behind the scenes, customer moments, events, and start sharing that. You don't need to script or stage everything. Start with what's real. That's what people end up connecting with.
[25:35] Dave Charest: Number 2, be patient and persistent. Social media isn't about instant wins. Evan shares how it took him years of posting, live streaming, and podcasting before real results started to show up.
[25:50] Dave Charest: If you're trying something new, whether it's LinkedIn or video, don't judge your success too early. Give it time and treat it like building a skill. And number 3, own your audience. While social is great for reach, Evan reminds us that you don't control those platforms.
[26:08] Dave Charest: Algorithms change, accounts can disappear. That's why you need to build an email list and create content you own, like newsletters, blogs, or podcasts to stay connected with your audience on your terms. So here's your action item for today. Pick one business or person you admire on social media. Maybe a local competitor, an industry expert, or someone whose content just makes you stop scrolling.
[26:36] Dave Charest: Study what they're doing. What kind of posts do they share? How often do they show up? What feels authentic or useful? Then borrow the idea, but make it your own. Now, if you're using Constant Contact, try drafting a quick social post inspired by what you saw. Use the AI content generator to help you write faster, then schedule it to go out. Just showing up gets easier when you're not starting from scratch.
[27:06] Dave Charest: I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Be A Marketer podcast. Please take a moment to leave us a review. Just go to ratethispodcast.com/BAM. Your honest feedback will help other small business marketers like yourself find the show. That's ratethispodcast.com/BAM.
[27:29] Dave Charest: Well friend, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and continued success to you and your business.