Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the Grazing
Grass Podcast Episode 117.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: I
think keeping those little projects
little at first until you can
learn from them and see how can you
expand on that is really important
Cal: you're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories
of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's episode we have
William Vogl of Vogl Homestead.
We discuss his journey, his
operation, how he's grazing sheep
on his land, as well as land of his
neighbors using very small acreage.
Then for the overgrazing section,
we dive more into composting that
he's doing to improve his land.
And then for the bonus segment that's over
available for the Grazing Grass Insiders,
we talk about his great pumpkin rescue.
It's a wonderful episode.
For or ten seconds about my farm.
I really don't have too much to add.
Uh, we had a family vacation last week.
Went down to Hot Springs, Arkansas.
Stayed down there for a few days
with most of my parents family.
So we got, uh, my brother's
family, my sister's family.
We had a big crowd there.
It was really nice.
Really beautiful down there.
The cattle, the sheep all got put in
better, bigger paddocks, so I didn't have
to do anything and it went really well.
Like all trips, I'm glad to be home.
10 seconds on the podcast,
we have some really exciting
podcasts coming up in the future.
So stay tuned for that, as well as some
other things in the works that we'll
be letting you know in the future.
But I think that's all.
Let's, go talk to Will.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355:
William, we want to welcome you
to the grazing grass podcast.
We're excited you're here today,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Thanks for having me on.
I'm excited to be here and talk
about what we're going to talk about.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355:
William, to get started.
Can you tell us a little bit
about yourself and your operation?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: Yeah.
So my name is Will.
I have a farm here in Colorado Springs,
Colorado called the Global Homestead Farm.
We primarily raise sheep
grass fed for meat.
We raise a white dorker, St.
Croix crosses.
And then we also have a small market
garden where largely we do rhubarb
and some other long season annuals
and perennials like garlic and stuff.
A lot of it's what does well here.
We've
found that a lot of stuff doesn't Do well
because we're at 7, 200 feet elevation
as well We're not in the mountains.
We're in the foothills of the Rocky
Mountains here, but We get a range
of weather Everything from what's
typical of the plains to some severe
stuff coming out of the mountains.
So and then We do a few other things.
We raise or we use our sheep
now for pasture and understory
forest mitigation and
prescribed grazing operations
that we started this year.
And then we also we lease a bunch
of the properties that are heavily
treed and need thinned out.
So we're finding ways to utilize those
as well as a part of our operation.
Like right now we dig up small
ponderosa trees and we sell those
to people as kind of conservation
trees or, windbreaks and stuff.
And then we're hoping to get a sawmill
up and run them later this year as well.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh yes.
So what it sounds like to me
is you don't have enough to do.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
It's funny you say that because I also
work full time as a firefighter and I
got, I got two kids and
a wife and everything.
In all my copious amounts of
free time, I'm always looking for
something else to add in there.
Yeah
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Will, how
long have you been raising sheep?
What got you into it?
Cal: So I grew up.
around ranching.
My, my
folks they used to have Red Angus
cattle in this area and so I grew
up doing 4 H and being around that.
And back in 2000 when the big huge
drought hit the whole west their operation
basically ground into a to a stop.
It just came to an end because we
didn't get hardly any rain at all.
They started
having feed Hay prices
went through the roof.
By the time they started destocking,
everything was, pennies on the dollar.
That effectively ended
their ranching operation.
And at that point, I was
about 10 or so maybe 11.
And I didn't fully comprehend how
much that would influence me now.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, yeah.
Cal: I ended up graduating, went to
college, became a firefighter, and then
we bought seven acres that we live on now.
and started doing the homestead thing
and, first started a garden, then I
got eight chickens, and I got more
chickens, and I got more chickens.
And it was about this time I had
a co worker that was like, Hey,
have you heard this guy that has
these portable chicken coops?
I think his
name's Joel Salatin.
And so I looked into that, and
that was like the beginning into
regenerative agriculture for me.
And for a solid four years, I really
just threw myself into learning
everything I could from anyone and,
uh, started learning about, the
the different styles of rotational
grazing and especially soil health.
That was the one that really resonated
with me the most here because
we are a fairly dry atmosphere.
We're not technically a
desert, but we're
definitely semi arid here.
And realizing how much soil health
and having the, capturing that
natural precipitation and that
water cycle play a part with each
other really opened my eyes up.
And then I started being able to draw
upon, my experiences as a kid and watching
my parents operation do what it did.
Started connecting some
dots and stuff and whatnot.
And one of our biggest challenges
here is the fact that we are in
a very expensive area land wise.
You can't
get land to be productive at
all for the actual land price.
Like right now that it land
price right now anywhere from
14 an acre, unimproved, and
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355:
I shouldn't complain here.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Well, So what it did is it, a lot
of it's, it gets turned into the,
what I call the rural suburbia.
It's the five acre
lots that everyone, moves
out of the city for.
And so I started leasing land
from my neighbors and stuff.
And obviously, five acres
at a time, that's not real
suitable for bigger animals.
You can only have a few, but.
Sheep made sense to me, so I started
getting into the, doing some research
on them, and then somebody had
a flock that they were selling.
The the husband gotten a new job
all the way across the country,
and they needed to sell it to move.
And so I got a screaming deal on
these white Dorpers and I if the rest
is history, I started using them,
and realizing real fast that they
seem to be a lot better fit here.
in our environment than cows are in
general especially once we started
leasing some of these forested
lots because in our area we have
this really heavy ponderosa forest.
It's a pretty much a monoculture forest
but the very quick history of it is it
back in the 1800s they logged it pretty
extensively for, lumber because it was
easier to haul it from here and on rail
to Denver and Colorado Springs and all
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, yeah.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Cities around here, than it was
to pull it out of the mountains.
So what happened was after they
logged it, it regrew in this
unnatural way of just being overgrown.
And a lot of that was the, we'd
removed the fire element from, nature
managing it, as well as by this
point, we'd removed all the large
herds of animals, obviously.
And in this region, this probably would
have been more the huge herds of elk
than it was the bison, they would have
both come through this area and had
a huge impact on the forest health.
So we started running our sheep
through these areas and realizing
that the understory, and especially
where we do some thinning and whatnot.
The forest health really rebounds
dramatically and we start to
get in a healthy understory.
The grasses start growing where they
didn't before because the pine needles
are getting trampled up, and we're
starting to see natural fruit bushes
that typically grow in the understory,
like chilled cherries and currants
coming back in and stuff.
And then of course the wildlife
is, loving wherever we move
the sheep, especially turkeys.
I've noticed we'll move them through
an area Where they trample everything
up and then I'll notice 50 turkeys come
through within a month or two later
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: digging
through those pine needles looking for
anything that they like to eat and whatnot
So and then you know within a usually a
season or two, especially along the forest
edge areas We'll start seeing that grass
grow, three four or five times better than
it did before and then you know, we'll
give it a long rest period here That rest
period is often times the whole year.
I've had very few areas I've had
luck with being able to re graze
twice in a season, just because of
our, arid climate.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Is that
for the tree areas as well as?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
It's everything, honestly.
Yeah.
A lot of our grasslands here are,
have been overgrazed over, the
last 150 years.
So we've lost a lot of our topsoil
here, just like a lot of places.
And and a lot of our stuff
here is cool season too.
We do have some warm
seasons like, big bluestem and stuff,
but a lot of our, the predominant
grass where we're at is usually if
it's out in the open or in the forest
edges, it's smooth grown and stuff.
Which is a great forage for the sheep.
They love it.
It's their, probably their favorite
grass, but it does have a hard
time regrowing after it's been
grazed in a lot of these areas.
So now we've had a lot of luck lately
with some of what we're doing on our
farm for restoring the soil and whatnot.
But I imagine we'll talk on that
later, but but as far as most
areas, once it's a one and done.
type grazing system.
So I have to have enough land to
continually move our sheep around
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, yeah
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
not have them come back through
areas before they're fully recovered.
And we see a lot of improvement
over just a few years doing that.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: So before
we talk a little bit more about the
management of your sheep and how
you're doing that Let's talk about your
breeds you started with white Dorpers.
How familiar were you with
sheep when you got them?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Very little.
I, we'd had a sheep when I was a
kid, and this sheep, It's just a
funny story is we never sheared it.
It was a some kind of
wolverine I couldn't tell you
what but we never sheared that thing.
And so that poor sheep was
enormous It looked like
you know those pictures of the sheep
that come out of the woods after they've
been gone for years And I used to
you know get teased because I get on
the school bus and they'd be like Is
there a moving rock in your pasture?
And it's no that's woolly wool.
That was her name.
Woolly wool.
So very suiting name.
But that was my experience
with sheep, honestly.
So I when I was getting into the
idea of looking at sheep in general,
I knew I wanted a hair sheep.
I wanted something that was lower
maintenance as far as not needing
sheared and all that.
And, in this area a few years
before, I even got into all this.
We had a huge boom of alpaca people and
that really flooded any bit of the fiber
market that we might've had in this area.
So the wool side of it
didn't appeal to me at all.
So I just wanted to do it for the meat,
which is what I'm most familiar with
anyway, and knew, I wanted something
along the traditional kind of breeds that
a lot of regenerative farms are using
like, Katahdins or something like that.
And and then once I saw these for
sale, I was talking to them and
then I actually got a hold of their
breeder who's also here in Colorado.
And I talked to him for a good while
and really liked what, they were
all telling me about how they do
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, Oh
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: and
the guy that'd been breeding them, for
20 years here with, not needing to,
use any wormers or anything like that
and even on irrigated lands and stuff.
So
that was what I was looking for is a
resilient, breed that had been acclimated
to this climate more than anything And
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, yeah.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
of course, once we got them
I joke, so we got them on St.
Patrick's Day, which is probably the
most Irish thing I could have done on St.
Patrick's Day was buy a flock of sheep.
And there was a learning curve after
that of what to do and whatnot.
I've largely learned, you gotta
keep them happy because our
primary fencing system is electric.
We lease a lot of lands that
don't have adequate fencing
or any, in a lot of times.
I gotta make sure my fencing system is
on par, but I gotta make sure they're
happy too because especially the females,
they'll start testing the fence and
when they, decide that they're ready
to move and if if they decide that they
want to move, they're going to move,
but I learned too that, a lot of the
stereotypes that, I was worried about,
like the fact that if the wind blows the
wrong way, they die that I found that
not to be really the case at all, but
they are, I had a predator issue for a
few years that, it was a learning curve.
And so now we got some Colorado
mountain dogs that live with
the sheep as well and whatnot.
It's been a long learning journey, every
bit of it I've enjoyed and I'm glad I went
with the sheep because to me that seems to
be just a better fit for us than anything.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: I think a lot
of times when people start to they're
like, I want to get some livestock and
start doing something regenerative.
They've been bitten by the bug.
Cattle's their first thought, but So
often when you're working with smaller
acreage Sheep are a much better animal
to get started with and see how it goes.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: We
learned really quickly too that, all
the larger properties, once you get
a little further out that are in our
area They're largely traditional people
and they've been leasing to the same
cattle people forever, so I quickly
learned to talking to people that, finding
some of those properties was just going
to be out of the question for here, even
though, I got the advantage of being
from this area and, I didn't move very
far from where I grew up and whatnot.
And even with that, it's just trying
to get a leg in wasn't going to work.
And then of course I got sheep and
much to my dad's dismay at the time,
he His grandfather was a big cattle
guy up in Montana back during the
time of, cattlemen versus shepherds.
And
so he always, joke that I bought a bunch
of prairie cockroaches and eventually he
came around enough that his property was
one of the ones that we lease now too.
But
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
at the beginning he was giving
me a lot of crap for it.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Happens.
Yeah, especially that paradigm shift from
being cattle till here We have some sheep
so you got your sheep, and you hadn't
really been around them, but you did
some research, you talked to some people.
Was there something that really surprised
you about them once you had them?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
One of them was the ease
of managing them, honestly.
Having cattle and you realize obviously
they're big animals and you gotta be
careful around them in a lot of ways.
And sheep are just, So much easier in
that sense, like you don't have to worry
for the most part about them, trampling
you or, doing that stuff or you get,
protective mama, it's not really an issue.
Whereas, before that was totally
something we had to do when I
was a kid, and, and then on top
of that, there are a lot, they're
really easy to move in my mind.
So when we had cows as a, when
I was a kid, my parents had two
very different styles of moving
cattle, like completely opposite.
My dad was the maniac driving through the
field, trying to chase him with the truck.
And
my mom was the one that was out there
with the feedback Hey, come on, follow me.
You know, And I, I learned as a kid,
I was like, I liked the feedback trick
way more than that one because it's
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, yeah.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
And, you learn quickly.
Sheep are very easy to manage that way.
They're very food motivated, and it's
gotten to a point where we lease a lot of
small properties real close to each other.
And it's nice because I can literally
just walk them property to property.
Even if it's, I gotta go a quarter
mile down the road or something and
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, yeah.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: It's to
the point where I can be out there with
just a flake of alfalfa or a an empty
box, even, because we work with a local
food bank on bringing in food scraps, and
they get a lot of produce scraps that way.
So the, I can just go out there
with an empty box, and they're just
like, Oh, treat time, you know?
And so I was really pleasantly
surprised by that fact.
On the other side, like I said they're
really intelligent, especially the ewes,
and, uh, If you don't account for that in
your moves, they'll they'll let you know
that you fucked up, or you messed up.
They'll let you know real fast.
The um, that was a learning curve as well.
As you show up and all of a sudden you
notice your fence is down and you're like,
oh no, has anyone seen a bunch of sheep
anywhere, so I've gotten really good at
that over the years, is making sure got
everything dialed in, especially with my
schedule as a firefighter, because I'm not
always able to check on them every day.
was a really big learning
curve, is making sure everything
was pretty much bulletproof.
And, they still escape every once in
a while, but I've gotten to the point
now where I'm like, I'll show up and
I'll know exactly where they went,
even if I can't see where they went.
Yeah.
Because I've worked with them long enough
now, I know how their minds think and I'm
like they want to go uphill,
they want to go that way.
It, and you, I can usually track them
pretty quickly and whatnot and even when
they're loose and stuff, I can, usually
me and one other person can move them
wherever I need to for the most part and
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh
right,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
big of an issue.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: One thing I
find very curious about the sheep, if
I've got a bucket or something that
I'm trying to get them to come up with,
not a problem, but I have some goats,
and for the goats, they're suspicious
of me, so it's, they have to be, I
have to show them the inside of a
bucket for them to follow me, and they
have
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: like, is
there actually food in there, yeah, Yeah.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: The
goats, they're much more show
us the inside, what's in there?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: Yeah.
And I don't, I haven't
gotten into goats yet.
I've resisted that because I had bad
experience with basically raising my
brother's 4H goat when I was a kid.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, yes.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: as
we're doing more and more of the the
prescribed grazing stuff and whatnot,
I'm realizing obviously that they
would bring a big benefit to that too.
So at some
point we're going to have to bring a
couple in and then that's going to be
a whole new learning curve, obviously.
Yeah.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Because, yeah
they're a different animal than sheep.
You start with white Dorpers.
Have you stuck with white
Dorpers as your primary
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
So our core herd is all from
interior genetics for the most part.
We ended up buying a few or
expanding our flock a few years ago,
but it was all from the original
breeder of our original flock.
And so he wanted to get out of
it and retire from raising sheep.
I went down and basically bought out
the rest of his flock and we grew
ours with that and at that point
he had a ram that was much more St.
Croix than it was Dorper um, you know,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh,
yeah.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: So,
you know, We, they've always been a
cross, they've never been pure white
Dorper but, they're definitely a lot
more of a mix now and I don't know,
those two breeds seem to complement
each other pretty well as far as
their and stuff.
But I'm at a point now too,
where I'm like, What other
breeds could I bring in here?
Looking for the traits I could
really, kind of fine tune our
flock into really what's going
to be most adaptable for here.
Cause at the end of the
day, that's what I really care about.
I'm not looking to have a registered
sheep or anything like that.
So I want to know, have
what's adequate for here.
What works.
for our context, because that's
ultimately what's going to
benefit us and the land the best.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Yeah, my
sheep flock's predominantly catahdins.
Little bit of other mixed
in there, but not much.
But I've thrown around the idea of
getting a dorper ram and trying that.
My concerns are I'm quite
a bit wetter than you are.
I don't know about parasites.
That's one thing.
I don't want to bring in
any parasite problems.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: Yeah
that's one Of those unfair advantages I
think we have here is parasites in general
just aren't much of an issue at all
unless you're basically feedlotting
them for a better term, but if you're
moving them at all, you can, you could
graze it to the dirt if you wanted
to and you're probably not going
to have much in the way of parasite
issues just because it's so wet here.
There might be a few exceptions, like
irrigated pastures and maybe some
riparian areas and whatnot that might
be a different case around here but
for the most part it's all dry land and
parasites just aren't much of an issue
and especially once you start rotating
them i've just never noticed any sort of
anything to concern with but obviously i
said you know you get into a much wetter
climate and i imagine you know that's a
very different context in a lot of ways so
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Yeah, and
I've always heard with goats, like boar
goats west of I 35, it's dry enough,
parasites aren't going to be a problem,
but you're east of I 35, which I'm east
of I 35, boar goats struggle a little bit
I wonder if the same thing would
be true with Dorpers since they
originated in South Africa as well.
However, I don't know.
But actually before we got on.
You got online here.
I was looking at some Dorper rims because
I mentioned to buy one and try that cross
just for breeding season
and see how it goes
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
I've heard from other producers that
have had crosses, where as long as you
have one of those parasite resistant
crosses, it seems to, pass on a lot
of those traits, because, the St.
Croix's are, they were developed
from the Katahdin breed and, so they
have a lot of that same parasite
resistance capability and whatnot
too, but obviously I think a lot of it
comes down to management too, that's
just a matter of where you're at,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: now
you're grazing your sheep
on a, on some lease land.
And you mentioned
earlier electric fencing.
Walk us through what you're using
to contain the sheep to an area.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: So it
largely depends on which group because
I don't we keep all of our rams intact
so we end up having a what I call the
bachelor group and then the all
the females and Like I mentioned
before, the females are way smarter.
So for them, I almost have to
use the netting exclusively.
They when it comes to just normal
polywire, they are way too smart.
Now I've noticed every generation
that we've been really good about
not letting them escape a lot.
The younger ones are always more.
wary of the fence.
So hopefully
over some time maybe we can, make
them capable of being a lot more
suitable for regular polywire.
But right now I, especially on
some of these properties that we're
running in areas where people got dogs
and stuff, I feel most comfortable
using the netting with them.
Now the rams or a group I can
use two strands of polywire
and, they're more than happy.
And then as far as energizers
go I try to stick with at least
a 6 joule energizer for them.
Especially here because it is dry.
Having that stronger
energizer makes a big difference.
Typically with the portable
setup, I can get away with one
ground rod unless it's really dry.
And that works out well anyway because
I can just put a ground rod wherever
I need it and And then I just set
up the energizer in a centralized
location, and I'll run polywire to any
setup I have on the property within,
Reasonable distance and be
able to keep moving them
through the summer and whatnot.
Most of our properties, we have electric
access because most of them have houses.
People are,
They're living on those properties, so
most of the time I can plug in to the wall
somewhere and run a few extension cords
and that works out really well, especially
since the energizers really have a minimal
drawl of power on them, but the some
of these bigger remote properties we're
Using the same type of energizers, usually
like the SpeedWrite ones that can switch
between plug in and battery operated and
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, yeah.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: whatnot.
So we're starting to do more
with that and working on building
my first solar powered one.
But a lot of times too, since it's
with my schedule, it works out doing
a three day check for them anyway.
In the worst cases I just
bring a new battery every
three to six days and swap them
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
and that works just as fine,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: one thing
you mentioned there about netting
that I'd ask you about containment
of your sheep and you mentioned the
netting works good because you're in
close proximity to houses and dogs.
So not only keeping the sheep in,
it's keeping the other animals out.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: Exactly.
And
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: And
sometimes we forget that, but that's
really a
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: in
most places the netting works really
well, even for coyotes and stuff.
And, our biggest predators
are coyotes here.
Or, I guess potentially people's
dogs, if they're, not really
paying attention to them, but and
we have some other predators, but
they've never been any concern.
And a lot of these places, I think
that there's too many people, it
anyway, we cougars and stuff too.
An something, I think the
ne on canine and feline bree
the way they connect to t bears
does the sa stuck their nose in
the f yeah, that's been a big p got a
couple of properti Further out, they
were way more rural and those are where
I've always had the predator issues and
those coyotes definitely got smart and
figured out the fencing, so that's why
we ended up getting the dogs that
live with them now in those areas,
and that's been that second layer
of protection for them that has
really made a difference, but,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: And you
mentioned you have Colorado mountain dogs?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: Yeah,
they're a, a, for lack of a better term,
they're a cross of Great Pyrenees and
a bunch of other Livestock Guardian
breeds they look great Pyrenees, which is
usually the bulk of the breed, but they're
they're trying to develop a, basically a
Livestock Guardian breed that's designed
for smaller homesteads and stuff is
ultimately what they're trying to do
we found a local breeder that we really
liked and, their dogs have been great, so.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: I hadn't heard of
them, so I'm glad you expanded upon that.
Now you talked about
your remote properties.
They work really good there.
When you bring your flock in
closer to homes, you're keeping
your dogs with them there too.
They're just in the netting.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: Yeah,
and We have a, fully portable setup.
So I got a little dog house that's,
I can drag around and whatnot.
And then we have a feeder that is
designed for letting the dogs be able
to slip underneath and get in there,
but the sheep have a really hard time
unless they're little getting in there.
So
it keeps them out of the food.
And so they have it's like a
gravity feeder in there and they
have access to that 24 seven.
They don't.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: And you
mentioned that they crawl under it.
So on one side, you have a raised
bar that they're able to get
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Yeah, it's it's mostly just cattle
panels, honestly, and then I just
I have an adjustable wooden 2x4 on
the front, so if I need to raise
it up or lower it a little bit,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh yeah.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: but
even our big boy, he's 130 pounds, and,
he'll slip through, a foot and a half
of that thing, so, you can have that
thing pretty narrow, and there's, as long
as they were trained to get in there.
Yeah, at a younger age, they seem
to have no problem getting in there.
We've tried doing it with an older
dog once and he was like, Nah, that's
too much work, but but as long as they
learn it, I think as a puppy, that, that
setup works really well and whatnot.
And I said, the only time I see the
sheep ever get in there is usually we get
some little one that's figured it out.
But but we also let him get a
little territorial with that.
Absolutely.
He's not like overly aggressive,
but he'll run them off, if he thinks
they're gonna try to eat his food.
So he protects it and whatnot
if if he thinks he needs to.
And otherwise he thinks he's
a sheep, but it's pretty
funny.
We'll throw
hay out there and he'll run up to
the bales and stick his nose in
there and act like he's eating it,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: yeah, for my
livestock guardian dogs, they'll go
under something like you're talking
about really good But I saw a plan
from OSU for a 4x4 portable pen that
had an opening I guess about two foot
up in the air, they go over and in.
And so I had the local
Ag chapter build me one.
And I thought this is the greatest thing.
I love it.
It's got a gate on the side.
I've got some, a couple
of feeders in there.
My two dogs refuse to go up and over.
They, so right now I have it
outside the sheep pen in my yard.
Almost my yard, in my driveway.
With the gate open so
they'll go in there and eat.
And I'm like, I know you all will do this.
I've locked them in there.
I've seen them go through gates up high.
I know they know how to do it,
but they are refusing thus far.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
It's funny how dogs will be like that.
They'll get set in their ways and
they're like, Nah, I'm not doing that,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: yeah,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: I, and
I, think it'd be the same with anything.
I think once they figure out a system,
that's the way for most of them, but
like I said, I think if you get them as
puppies and you can train them to it when
they're, still learning everything, then
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: yeah,
I think you're probably right.
I've closed the gate on it
and thought, they will go in
there when they get hungry.
And I end up feeling bad and
opening it before they, they do it.
Yeah,
I went on that tangent with that, and
we were talking about the netting and
those Colorado mountain dogs, which I'm
not familiar or wasn't familiar with.
One thing you've started this
year is your prescribed grazing.
How is that going for you?
How are you marketing that and getting
that out to people so they know?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Yeah it came when we were started
leasing some of these small properties.
The idea came to me because I
there's a few people that do it
with goats in this area, it's not
It's a growing thing in this area.
But a lot of people know we see
people out there either doing
their own lawn, a five acre lawn or
they hire it out a lot of the time.
And, you'll see people out there
with their tractors and stuff,
going property to property.
And a lot of it is, where we're at, it's
just a lot of people from the city move
out here and they get the land and then
they don't realize right away that they
probably need to do something with it.
A lot of them don't want the animals, but
they really like having the animals there.
They don't want
the responsibility of them though.
What we've learned is a lot of people
just love having animals there.
That's ultimately what it is.
And then, I get a chance to talk to
them about it and, say, hey, these are
the benefits of what we're doing and
it's actually gonna, slowly build up
your pasture and actually improve it.
And especially knowing more of the
history of this, I'm gonna be like,
this was a cattle ranch or whatever
that at one point was, was built.
pretty heavily overgrazed just
because of our fragile environment.
And I can point out the indicators of that
and it becomes an educational thing too.
And a lot of people
just, they really like that.
And then I started getting
a lot of word of mouth.
So I'll get into a neighborhood
and, one person will do it.
And then all of a sudden I'll have
three more coming up to me and be like,
Hey, can you bring them over here now?
And then and then if I, if I'm
looking for more, usually there's a
couple of local Facebook groups or
next door that's usually adequate
for me to put it out there because I'm
not looking to go very far, I want to
keep in our, within a five or 10 mile
range of our farm just for the ease
of it, because we do at least land, my
furthest property that at least right
now is a emergency backup property.
It's how I view it just to
have more in case of drought.
But
That one's a good 45 minutes away
from us, and obviously that's
not convenient to, to use, but, um, we
have that as well, but I try to keep
them in within a hub is what I call them.
I got, an area around us that, I try
to keep, properties that I can run.
And then close to my family's property,
I'm starting to develop one there of
larger properties, but same thing.
It's a lot of people, they get the
land and they don't do anything
with it and then they like what
they see, and so it makes it really
convenient when you can just move
each group in these separate areas and
they're not close enough that I have
to worry about them, detecting each
other and then rams getting out and all
that.
So, and that works out really well.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Now,
in this prescribed grazing, are
you doing it free of charge?
Are you paying some for the grass?
Or are they paying you
to maintain the grass?
Or is it just a service?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
So it's a mix.
We started doing it for free in
these, like I said, those little hubs.
And those generally speaking, or like
we have one area that's about, it's
probably 12 or 13 properties now.
Most of them are five acre properties,
but we got a couple of larger ones
as well, and I can literally just
walk them property to property.
So I don't mind picking up another
property over there for free
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
it's more land.
And then.
If I especially the slightly larger ones,
I can start talking to them about longer
term leases, which is, something I need to
boost more because a lot of these are just
year to year and, those are simple, very
simple leases, I come in, I graze, I leave
and then I reach out to them the next
year and Hey, I'm looking at this, these
months you good if I come by and they're,
most of them are like, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And then the longer term leases
I can usually start looking
at NRCS grants and stuff and
whatnot, especially for like forestry
management and stuff and a lot of people
are into that because fire mitigation is
extremely expensive around here that's a
good way to bridge that and I have this
unique ability of having the firefighter
knowledge and then the, the farming
knowledge and put those together in a
way that really complement each other.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Yeah, as you're
talking about that, I'm thinking, yeah,
and you're a firefighter, you have
more knowledge in this area.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: I'm
able to not just, throw the regurgitated
things that we tell people from the
firefighter side of this is the spacing
and this is why I'm able to actually come
from an ecological standpoint now and be
like, Hey, this is why you
want these trees spaced out.
They used to be more of that Savannah
environment where you had a lot
forest and meadow kind of combo.
And, and especially I was lucky enough
to find some settler journal accounts
of what they found when they came here.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
they described this area as
park like, they had five foot
in diameter trees, which I
haven't found one that's more
than three feet in diameter yet.
And, so I can point this out and
be like, this was the spacing.
This is why nature had that spacing
before we came in and messed it all up.
And, I don't blame anyone for
messing it up because we didn't
know better at the time, but,
Now that we have a lot more of that
knowledge and understanding, we can
utilize that and try to put things
back in balance and people really
appreciate that, mindset going into
it versus just looking at
it only as a job or, like
a lot of fire mitigation companies have.
Yeah.
People resonate with that well I
think learning that context of,
for anyone, of what's, natural and
being able to talk to people about
that is, makes a big difference.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, I agree.
I think you're onto
something there.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: but
to answer the other part of that, I
just realized I went on a tangent.
We do start, we did start charging
people in areas that aren't
connected to that, as well.
Around here I started basing it off of
what people were charging to mow per acre
Around 55 to 65 dollars an acre is what
I started charging and and that, most
people like that too and like I said,
they get the benefit, it's longer, but
it's, they get the benefit of having the
animals there and not having to take care
of them and to them, a lot of people just
enjoy that being in the country, even
if they don't want the animals themselves,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: yeah.
Now, do you find on those properties
where they're paying for the
service and you go in and graze
it and then pull the sheep off?
Is that?
Manicured enough for the landowner,
and they're happy with that,
or do you, do some of them want
even you to go in mechanically
straighten it all up or anything?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
So far, because that part is fairly
new for our operation, so I haven't
run into a lot of people that, are
really looking for that mode look.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: I
do explain it really clearly in the
beginning, is hey, running the sheep
here does not have the same look.
It's
going to look a little
messier, that's normal.
I can push them a little harder if
they want, but I usually have to, the
caveat is, it's gonna, I have to charge
a little more because I have to bring
in hay to do that, now what I've been
able to do with one property so far
that this is one that we've is in that
area that I just do it for free anyway
where they had a, it's a new build and
they had their leech field needing some
assistance and, the grass regrowing.
So I was like, What we can do is, if
you want to buy the hay, I'll, next
time I bring them through here, we'll
put all that hay down, and it'll build
up a nice cover on top of that while,
it's still trying to re establish
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: that
should help it and, what not, and a
lot of people like that idea as well
that's something I'm going to look more
into as well, but, if they got areas
they want manicured, that's going to
be probably the best way I can approach
it, and if they don't want that, then
either, they can go back and clean
it up after, or, it's just not going
to be a good fit at the end of the day.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: And
that's really where I lean.
If they're wanting that manicured look,
it's probably not a good fit because
you're doing something much more
ecologically sound and they're getting
the benefit of the fertilizer being left
by the sheep and they're getting the
enjoyment of seeing the sheep out there.
So there's some definite
positives out there.
And when they thinking about
it, and if you explain it.
I'm thinking they'll, they're either
gonna be like, I don't want all that,
so I need it mowed, or they're gonna
be like, oh yeah, that is fine, I'm
helping, I'm leaving the land in
better condition, and they're willing
to deal with that, is my assumption.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: Yeah,
and that's essentially, the whole mindset
behind what I do, and and, I don't take
it personal and I'm, pretty friendly
with people I throw that in, that ball
in their court and, I let them make that
decision, and, I let them know, I'm like,
if that's not what you want, then, I would
look at mowing, That's what some people do
want and there's nothing wrong with that.
Everyone can choose to do what they want
with their property, but, I have just
another option that they can choose
from at the end of the day and that's,
what I tried to explain to people and
people are very receptive to that even
if they aren't into the, the look that
maybe the sheep will have afterwards,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: right, yeah.
Now, how are you marketing your sheep?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: So
when we sell them for meat, I do it all
direct to a consumer and it has only
been through like Facebook and
Nextdoor and I haven't had no issue
selling out every single time.
And We, so we do it through
a state inspected processor.
So it's usually a whole
lamb.
I
used to do when I first started, I
was doing the USDA by the cut, thing,
and the amount of work that was just
not justifying it for, my time of what
I have available.
So
we started doing the, especially
after COVID when everyone booked
up so much, the processor that
we were using is about three hours
away and I loved the cuts they did.
They've been the best processor
I've ever used for the aesthetics
of what we got back as a product.
But, the, they were to the point where
they were booking out over two years
in advance and they're like, you gotta
book these spots, and I'm like, I
don't, this is like a season before the
season I'm gonna have the limbs, that's
not gonna work.
At that point I started really
considering, what's going to work.
And there's a bunch of state
inspected options we have locally.
Plus we just found one that will
actually potentially even come out to
our farm and do the slaughter part here.
Which I
really like because I'm trying
to always close those loops
and recycle as much as we can.
That's a big part of
our farm is bringing in waste, waste.
Products that the community doesn't
use, but I can use for sure, so we
end up bringing in all sorts of stuff.
We do a pumpkin drive in the fall
where we recycle jack o lanterns and
pumpkins that people would throw away.
We do leaves.
We have a neighbor that brings
us all their grass clippings
from their lawn care business.
We have a few people that bring
all their horse and cow manure
to here for us to compost.
So that's been always a big goal of
mine is to recycle as much as we can
out of, the landfill waste streams
and be able to use those as resources.
And so one of those has been
trying to close the loop on the
butcher side as well, you know,
Because, to date, we haven't been able to.
Get a good system where we can save the
hides, you know That's something I'd like
to get into doing is find a way to save
those in tanem I have a my sister in law.
She's big into doing the carry on beetles
now for cleaning like skulls and stuff
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: oh
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
look at maybe even if we can do it
on farm Maybe even saving the skulls
and seeing if we can't find a way to
market those if we can get them looking
good if we're doing it on a farm, I
can save the offal for our own dogs.
If that would normally be, waste product
that most places won't save for you.
And then anything else that's not
going to the landfill, we can put it
right into our compost and bring that
fertility right back onto our land.
So at the end of the day,
that's something I really want
to pursue more is doing that.
But yeah, as of right now,
we're just doing the direct to
market, consumers around us.
We have a the unfair advantage of
being within about 70 an hour of about
70 percent of Colorado's population,
so we're only about 30 to 45 minutes
from most of Colorado Springs, an hour
from downtown Denver, and, an hour
and a half from Fort Collins, which
is on the far north side of the state.
So that's basically the core of
Colorado's population center and
we got a lot of clients that, A,
there's not a lot of people that
sell sheep and lamb around here.
So we do have some, especially
ethnic customers that they really
like the fact that we keep everyone
intact and all that and what not.
We have a few that will actually let
it come out on farm and do their own
butchering even for the same reasons.
Usually they're looking for a whole one
for a doing some kind of spit roast,
thing with their family and all that.
And that works out really well.
And then yeah, we just have a lot of
other people that, they're looking for
other options besides, beef and pork
and something that's maybe a little
more, eco friendly, so to speak,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: how
are you getting the word out
that you have sheep available?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: We
have our Facebook page, and that's
usually the first place I do it.
And then, like I said I
share that, To local, various
local groups that I know or,
Have people that are looking
and that's the bulk of them.
If I, if that isn't working for
some reason cause we usually butcher
about 10 at a time, which is a
pretty manageable number of them
to sell.
And then yeah, but if that's not
working, then I can go to next door,
jump on there and usually that does it.
That's something, it's going
to be a learning curve as we
continue to grow the farm though.
Because at some point, that's going
to that market's not going to,
marketing technique's not going to
work out as well as it has, we're
small enough it does right now.
At some
point I'll have to look at other options,
maybe some of the barn to door or
whatever options and stuff like that too.
But we haven't got to the point
where I need to worry about
shipping it or anything like that,
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: yeah, very good.
And you mentioned something a
little bit earlier, Will, that
we're going to circle back
to about for our overgrazing section.
And you were talking about
bringing materials in composting.
So we're going to dive deeper into
that for our overgrazing section.
So tell us a little bit more about
your composting and what you're doing.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Yeah, so on our home site here I have
an area that we produce probably close
to 100 to 150 yards of compost a year.
And
most of that is manure from we
got here in our neighborhood.
We have some friends that have
a horse rescue and they bring
us all their horse manure.
And
then we have a few other people
that'll bring their manure to us.
But then.
We have, like I mentioned, the
neighbor that brings us lawn clippings
from his lawn care business and
leaves and all sorts of stuff.
We do the pumpkin recycling in the fall.
We we work on a small, very small scale
with a local food bank that gives us
all their waste produce and products
that they can't give to people anymore.
So we're able to utilize that.
Anything that, We try to use
it as a food source first,
obviously, because that's the most,
Beneficial, but anything that's not
suitable for even the sheep or when
we had chickens, if we couldn't give
to them, then that goes in there.
And so we are able to make this,
this compost that's, it's pretty
rough, as far as it's not screened or
anything like that, but we're using
100 percent of it for ourselves.
And so what we'll do is after, especially
after we graze through and we get that
grass down a little bit, What I'll do
is I'll go around and I'll spread that.
And our goal is somewhere around a half
inch to an inch of compost on this soil.
And what
that, what we found, I, so the way I
learned, I decided to do this was when,
before we really got into the sheep,
we were doing chickens a lot more.
And we were doing the Suscovitch
chicken tractors and whatnot.
And I I had a stint of days at work
where I wasn't able to move them.
and I came home and was finally able to
move them and I was panicking because
it was a drought year and I'm looking
at the ground that's just absolutely
destroyed under these things and I was
like okay we got I gotta do something
and we had some leftover compost from
our garden area so I started moving
a bunch over there and putting it
down and a couple weeks later we got
some relief with the rain finally and
that grass area under those chicken
tractors grew better than anything in
the pasture that hadn't been touched.
that
year.
And this was like in August and September,
so for some of these like grasses that
are supposedly don't come back after
they're grazed down and whatnot, seeing
that was like really eye opening to me.
And so I started paying attention to
those areas and the next spring I noticed
those areas started to grow a little
earlier and the grass was way richer
and greener than everything around it.
And so I started doing that
as a standard practice behind
the chipping tractors and then
We got out of the chickens because
processing was a real nightmare and at
that point we were starting to build more,
grow a lot of our own compost here and I
was like, what else could I do with it?
And around that same time I was
noticing that the garden, we have that
smooth brome grass that acts, it's a
spreading grass, so it acts a lot like,
like Bermuda grass or whatever, and I
was like, that stuff's going crazy in
my garden areas, much to my dismay, but
I was thinking more about it.
I'm like, what if I did
this to my pasture though?
It's loving the, that compost and
mulch combo, so what I started
doing first was just spreading
compost in areas that we grazed.
And we noticed a dramatic increase
of biomass immediately after that.
We
even, as soon as we get a nice
soaking rain, essentially.
I'll notice the grass grow
tremendously better than it ever
has since we own the property.
And we have areas that have been
doing this for a few years now.
And we don't it's a
one and done treatment.
I got a lot of areas I'm
still trying to treat.
So I'll go through, I'll
spread the compost, and then
we'll just let it regrow.
And I usually, within a year, I'll
see two to three times the amount
of forage growing on that area.
And
most of that is simply because it's
holding that moisture there, and so I got
to thinking again because we we get a lot
of wood chips brought to us from a local
tree company as well and I to the point
where I had like this mountain of them,
probably a few hundred yards, and I was
like the grass is loving the mulch in my
garden, so what if I spread mulch on it?
And what I started seeing was our
our, even our cool season grasses.
are just growing all
year round now non stop.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh, yeah.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
And obviously part of that's because
that, the wood chips are cooling
down the soil surface a little bit.
It's not heating up as much because
that was one thing I noticed with
compost is if it's bare on the soil,
A, it's prone to erosion, especially
with wind, until it gets really wet and
it can, settle into the grass.
But also it gets really warm on the
soil surface because it's black and
you know that sun starts to warm it up.
And so we started spreading
about an inch of mulch on top.
I didn't want to go any deeper
than that because at that point
you start setting the grass back.
But just a
thin layer enough to protect the
compost was the goal initially.
And then I realized in those areas
that even when we get copious amounts
of rain like we did last year, those
areas still are growing dramatically
better and richer and way taller
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
the other areas in our pasture.
So we've just made that into a standard
practice now where, we make the
compost and as soon as I have a, a
stack ready to go I'll spread it when
it makes sense to whether it's in the
winter time or after we graze and.
And then what we do, especially in
the growing season, is I'll spread the
compost, I'll let it sit for a while,
let the grass regrow through it, so
we're not just totally stifling it, and
then after it grows a few inches,
I'll come back through with the mulch
and I'll put that on top of that.
And it, basically, it's just it's a
mix of a, infusing a ton of carbon
into the soil system, which obviously
is hugely beneficial to this oil and
all the, microbes and
fungi and everything there.
But it's really locking into
that precipitation that we
get and just holding it there.
And, uh, that's really the big goal
here because that's our limiting
factor by, several factors above
anything else, it's a naturally
low nitrogen environment, so we
don't need a lot of nitrogen.
Obviously the compost, as it breaks
down further, will provide some of that.
Release some of the nitrogen
that's bound up in it.
But we don't need to worry
about fertilizers or any of
that anyway, because it's just,
everything grows well without it.
But water is such a limiting resource
here on growth and, it, that was really
the big goal and it, what I'm noticing
now too is in dry years these still grow.
They might not grow as well as
they do in wet years obviously, but
we're seeing that resiliency to
drought that really wanted to have.
Especially having those experiences
as a kid and watching my parents
his ranch just fall apart once
we got hit with a bad drought.
Ultimately my goal is just to,
capture as much of that precipitation
as we can because we, where we're
at, we don't have irrigation.
Water around here is a real tricky
thing, especially Colorado has
some crazy water laws in it in
general.
Like you're limited on how much water you
can capture off your rooftop and, what
your well can be used for and, commercial
wells are hard to get around here anyway.
And then there's just no
surface water irrigation at all.
We're at the head of both the Platte
and the Arkansas River watersheds.
So there's just, we don't
have surface water here.
Everything's tiny little creeks
and stuff and they're not
really anything substantial.
So there's, we have to work
with, what's falling from the
sky pretty much exclusively.
And
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355:
and capture as much as
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
exactly, this is a good way to
capture that and hold it there.
And we're noticing a difference now after
doing it for about three to four years.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: So you're getting
this the different items brought in.
How long are you composting it before
you spread it out on your pastures?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Largely depends on my time, so the
way we we mix it in turn, it is
I have a, tractor that's about 47
horsepower and I just bucket spread it.
I don't have a wind row
machine or anything like that.
So every time I turn a pile,
it takes me about an hour and
a half, so I got to have enough
time to, be able to do that.
And if Yeah, if I'm getting
overwhelmed at work or, we got other
projects, those piles might sit
there a little longer than normal.
And obviously if you're not turning
it more often, it just takes longer.
Usually it's anywhere
from six months to a year.
And then I have a very, about three or
four piles at any given point in various
stages of of decomposition, so to speak.
But once I get to a point where
I feel like the consistency is
getting pretty close and whatnot.
I'll turn it one last time, put it off
to the side somewhere, and I'll let it
sit for two or three months and just let
it mellow out for a bit and then at that
point, we'll spread it out and since we
don't have any way to screen it, typically
I gotta go back through and after we
spread it and look for any little, bits
of debris and trash that might have
slipped through usually it's, in the
form of like twine or something from the
manure that we get, but every so often
too, because we, we'll compost anything.
So if I have a mortality or
something, we'll throw those in there.
I've had a somebody local that brought
us a dead young elk that got stuck
in their fence and tangled up and
died.
We threw that in there, I've had people.
Don't want predator issues with deer
and stuff after they find a dead
one They'll bring them, you know So
every so often I'll find like a leg
bone or something and I'll pick those
up and throw them back in whatever
active pile I have and compost them
more but You know since it's going
on our pasture it could be pretty
rough too and it's fine And there'll
be little chunks of wood and stuff and at
the end of the day, that's not a big deal.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Right.
Yeah.
Will, it's been a great conversation
thus far But it's time for us to
transition to our famous four questions
Sponsored by Kencove Farm Fence.
Kencove Farm Fence is a proud
supporter of the Grazing Grass
podcast and graziers everywhere.
At Kencove Farm Fence, they believe
there's true value within the community
of graziers and land stewards.
The results that follow proper
management and monitoring can
change the very world around us.
That's why Kencove is dedicated to
providing an ever expanding line of
grazing products to make your chores
easier and your land more abundant.
Whether you're growing your own
food on the homestead or grazing
on thousands of acres, Kencove has
everything you need to do it well.
From reels to tumblewheels, polytwine
to electric nets, water valves to
water troughs, you'll find what
you're looking for at Kencove.
They carry brands like
Speedrite, O'Brien's, Kiwitech,
Strainrite, Jobe, and more.
Kencove is proud to be part
of your regenerative journey.
Call them today or visit Kencove.com.
And be sure to follow them on social
media and subscribe to the Kencove YouTube
channel @KencoveFarmFence for helpful
how to videos and new product releases!
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: We ask every
guest the same four questions, and I hope
you've studied okay, maybe not studied.
Okay, our first question What
is your favorite grazing grass
related book or resource?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: I
could go so many ways with that one.
I've read so many of books
from a whole bunch of people.
Honestly, I'd say I
actually have two right now.
One of them is Gabe Brown's
Soil to Dirt, or Dirt to soil.
Yeah I really like that.
And part of that's because, His
environmental context is similar to us.
He's further north, but
he's a lower elevation.
And they get a very similar
amount of rain to what we have.
And the snow falls fairly similar.
I think they get a little more than
we do, but context wise, out of
everyone that's doing, regenerative
agriculture, that's probably the
one that I've resonated most with
because it's so close
to our context, whereas,
I love.
A lot of the other ones from like Greg
Judy and Joel Salatin and all that, but
they're such a different climate to us
that I have to really take it with a grain
of salt and figure out, okay, what can
I utilize from that knowledge and what
do I need to tweak to make sense here?
Because, if you get 40 more inches
of rain, versus our 15 to 18,
there's going to be some differences
that I have to do no matter what.
But that's one.
And then the other one, I just I just
finished reading or I guess I finished
listening to the audible, but it
was the one from White Oak Pastures
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
yeah, with Will Harrison
bold return to giving a damn.
And I just really enjoyed that one.
Especially because the
audible version is him.
He's the
one that narrates it.
I really enjoyed that one and listening
to more of their story as well.
So
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355:
Excellent selections there.
I've got Will Harris's book here and
someone told me that I think is on the
podcast They told me that Will Harris read
that for the audio version, which I keep
planning on it's on my list But I'm going
through some other audio books first,
I love it on audiobooks
when the author reads.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Oh, absolutely.
I think that needs to happen more.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: yeah, it
just brings so much to it, yes, I
fully agree.
Excellent resources there, Will.
Our second question, what is
your favorite tool for the farm?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: I,
so I know a lot of people are like,
don't put money into machinery and
metal, but the tractor that we have
has been a lifesaver for me in so
many ways, the you Little backstory.
So my dad passed away earlier this
year, but I've watched my whole life
him work hard and break his body down.
And that was something that's
always been important to me is
taking better care of myself after
watching him, have issues with that.
And that tractor to me was an investment
in my health more than anything,
Protecting my back and, making sure that,
I'm not broken down in, in my 50s and
60s, so having that has been so useful
in so many ways and not just agriculture
because ours is a pretty small, like
it, it's not necessarily big enough
for a lot of agricultural applications,
it's a more of a subcompact tractor,
but I can use that thing in a lot of
ways that and get it in places where,
I need a little more muscle and stuff
And do all sorts of things
with it that, would.
Otherwise require a lot of a lot of
backbreaking stuff, and we have a saying
in the fire service, smarter, not harder.
So I've used that as
My version of that for, on the
farm is, the thing makes everything
a little simpler, it does get
me into trouble more cause it makes
me want to do more projects though.
So I have
to balance that out a bit.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Yeah.
I totally get that, yeah.
And I have to agree, that's a great
way to look at that expenditure.
That it's helping your health.
Because, yeah, without the tractor, or
if I don't have access to the tractor
for some reason, I end up doing something
a little bit more dumb than I probably
should.
So, you know,
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403: It's
so easy to, get into a situation where
you're like, Oh, I can do that myself.
And then
you get it into it and you're
like, that was really stupid.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Oh yeah.
I sometimes forget I'm not 20, our
third question, Will, what would you
tell someone just getting started?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
So I thought about this and
there's a couple of them.
I wanted, I was thinking about,
but I hit on one of them was,
taking care of yourself and,
being, thinking forward, right?
Because especially when we're
younger, like we all think we
can conquer the world, like
we're like, we can do everything.
I could raise chickens and sheep and cows
and have a huge garden and sell it all by
myself, like we all have that grand plan.
And then we realized that, no,
that's not practical at all.
And you run yourself into the
ground, and you know, thinking about,
your mental health and all that.
And being ambitious, but also, thinking
of what's realistic and what I think
is really important, and I think it's
fine to try things on small scales.
That's what a lot of what I do on
our farm is I'll try something on a,
something that only takes me a day
to do or, it takes very little of
my time and I'll see what happens.
And if it works out really well,
then I might, expand on that.
And If it's not giving me the result I
like, maybe I tweak it or maybe, I go,
okay, that's not going to work, and I
think keeping those little projects little
at first until you can learn from them and
see how can you expand on that is really
important because I see a lot of people,
especially around us where they'll start
up a farm, they'll go just full out.
Go big or go home and then
they burn themselves out so
fast within a few seasons.
And then, they're not farming
anymore and that's not helping
them in their, desires to do it.
It takes the fun out of it.
It's not helping the local community by
having something, grown there locally
and, potentially in a really, healthy
way for people in the environment.
And, it just doesn't do any
good in the long run if yeah.
If you're burning yourself out for your
family either, and so I think having
just, playing around with stuff and
not being afraid to experiment, but
keeping those little experiments small
to begin with and taking your time into
learning what's working there because,
that's ultimately what we're all trying
to figure out is what is our context,
what makes sense here with, my land and
my lifestyle and everything else, and,
uh, that's the big reason why I've been
fortunate to have my full time job as
well as doing this is it's allowed me
to do that, and play around with things
and really have a lot of fun doing it.
And that's been, it basically has turned
this into not just, what I want to
end up doing eventually full time, but
also it's my therapy in a sense too,
because I have a lot of fun doing it.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355:
Yeah, excellent advice there.
And physical and mental
health is so important.
Yeah, when I was working off the farm come
in a lot of times my wife wanted me to
go visit the cows before I came into the
house very long so I could decompress.
Cows were wonderful for that.
But that mental health and the thing
that, I've added lately, I'm not very good
about it, but I'm getting a lot better.
Maybe I'm just lazy.
It's just, I try not to do
something every day of the week.
I try and pick a day on the
weekend and just do what I have to.
I may have to go move cows or like
last weekend we had a holiday, all
the family got together, so I gave
the cows two days worth, so I didn't
even have to mess with them that day.
The sheep were the same way.
They had two days, so I could just focus
on family and not worry about everything.
And my wife said, It's always
on me to, you don't have to go
do stuff all the time, and I
think that gets into what you're
talking about with your physical
and mental health, yeah, it's
so very
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
And I know to build on that, whenever
we always try to have some family
vacations, some of them are, just
set like we're here soon going to
have my sister's wedding and whatnot.
We had one last year for my
other sister and, trying to
make time for those is obviously
difficult always with,
when you have a rancher.
And being okay with, hey, planning
that out, instead of doing the
daily or, for us, like I said,
it's about every three days, moves
and stuff and being, die hard on that.
Maybe you do open it up and say,
Hey, I'm going to give them this
huge massive pasture for two weeks
because I need a break, or I want to
set time for a vacation or whatnot,
or, and it's okay to have, a neighbor
or a, somebody come in and take care
of them for you if you need to, give
yourself some time to, To take a break,
give yourself that vacation, whether
it's, at home or somewhere else.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355:
Yeah, I completely agree.
And Will, lastly, where can
others find out more about you?
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
Yeah we don't have a website yet.
That's on my ever growing
to do list for this year.
But our primary place is on Facebook.
It's the Vogl Homestead.
We also have a TikTok, but I
don't really do much on there
as well under the same name.
But yeah, Vogl Homestead on
Facebook is our biggest thing.
And then on there I usually share
a lot of what we're doing and I
treat it like my blog, honestly.
I, a lot of times I'll go into some
of the stuff we're doing and I'll go
do a deep dive into it and explain it
and show pictures and whatever I can.
cal_1_05-16-2024_101355: Very good, Will.
We appreciate you coming on
and sharing with us today.
william-vogl_1_05-16-2024_091403:
absolutely Had a lot of fun,
Cal: I really hope you
enjoyed today's conversation.
I know I did.
Thank you for listening, and if you
found something useful, please share it.
Share it on your social media.
Tell your friends.
Get the word out about the podcast.
Helps us grow.
If you happen to be a grass farmer
and you'd like to share about
your journey, go to grazinggrass.
com and click on Be Our Guest.
Fill out the form and I'll be in touch.
We appreciate your support
by sharing our episodes and
telling your friends about it.
You can also support our
show by buying our merch.
We get a little bit back from that.
Another way to support the show is
by becoming a grazing grass insider.
Grazing Grass Insiders
enjoy bonus content,
monthly zooms and discounts.
You can visit the website
grazing grass.com.
Click on support and they'll
have the links there.
Also, if you haven't left
us a review, please do.
It really helps us as people
are searching for podcasts.
And I was just checking them and we do
not have very many reviews for 2024.
So if you haven't left
us a review, please do.
And until next time,
keep on grazing grass.