Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In RONderings, Ron talks to his guests about their superpowers, including career advice, diversity, mindset, wellness, and leadership. Ron grew up in New York City, and has been coaching and leading executive searches for the last five years, taking what he has learned from 15 years in corporate, higher education, government, and non-profit contexts. He and his wife are obsessed with reality television, and Ron also moonlights as a men's personal stylist and group fitness instructor. Ron says, "I believe in the power of intuition and deepening one’s self-awareness and impact on others. I believe in the power of connection and transparency. I believe that we must dismantle systems of oppression and racism to recover our fullest humanity. Most of all, I believe our power to change the world starts from changing ourselves first."
Ron Rapatalo: 00:00:00
What's up? I'm Ron Rapatalo and this is the Ronderings podcast. Around here, I sit down with guests for real, unpolished conversations about the lessons and values that shape them. And I'll be right there with you, sharing my own take, laughing at myself when I need to, and wondering out loud about this messy thing called life. Glad you pulled up a chair. Let's get into it.
Hey everyone, it's Ron Rapatalo and welcome back to Ronderings where we explore the people and ideas shaping purpose-driven leadership. Today I'm joined by someone who brings so much wisdom, heart, and clarity to the work of building better workplaces. My friend and former colleague Nautrie Jones, co-founder of Empact Work. Nautrie's journey took her from the classroom to the front lines of talent strategy, now to co-founding an organization that helps leaders create environments where people actually thrive.
In this conversation, we talk about the power of empathy in leadership, what it looks like to redefine identity beyond K-12 education, and how clarity and culture are deeply connected. Whether you're a leader, manager, or just someone who cares about people-first systems, this one will speak to you. Let's dive in.
Ronderings Universe. I have a dear friend and former colleague on the mic and I'm thankful to my other former colleague, Travonnie Mackey who was a Ronderings podcast guest some 50 plus episodes ago we had season one. It was season one, it was season one but you on Season 4 so like All-Star season I mean you know hoping to get season 20 we'll see. We've got Nautrie Jones from Empact Work on the mic. Nautrie, how you doing?
Nautrie Jones: 00:02:53
I'm doing great, I'm doing great. Excited to be here, thanks for having me.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:02:58
Yeah I missed you when I was at Atlanta twice. I have to make sure that my third time being in Atlanta, I don't miss you. Miss Ron Ron, don't forget.
Nautrie Jones: 00:03:06
Make it happen. Okay, we'll make it happen. And if I get up top, I will do my due diligence as well.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:03:12
I love it. Well, Nautrie, let's get right into it. What's your story?
Nautrie Jones: 00:03:18
This is such a big question. I have to tell you this. I was like, what do I want to talk about? What are the three things? What are my
Ron Rapatalo: 00:03:23
That's every guest.
Nautrie Jones: 00:03:24
Right. Such a big question. But I think I'll start here.
I am the daughter of Charlotte, granddaughter of Audrey, niece of Ladonna, niece of Jessica. I'll say that's who raised me. You know, I did a LinkedIn post about my mom a couple weeks ago. Just talking about what I saw her demonstrate for us throughout my life. And I've talked about my grandmother and I also have two aunts that helped to raise me and shape me.
I'm also the second oldest daughter. So, second oldest of six. I know, you know, you're the baby of seven.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:04:13
You know, everyone loves to say that. How about just the youngest? How about the youngest of seven? The one with the least age. I'm a baby. I mean, in...
Nautrie Jones: 00:04:21
That's fair. That is fair.
But second oldest, I think at this point in my life, I've recognized that there are set things that birth order certainly shaped. Not the oldest but the second and we are very, we're like 11, 12 months apart, like we are close. And so a lot of that responsibility and managing and stewarding you know my siblings getting things done. And so I am that person. I have navigated life through that lens.
I'm originally from Texas, born and raised, moved to Georgia. I finished undergrad. I like to tell people I finished undergrad in 2002. December. I was a December graduate and right before that semester had started I decided I was moving to Atlanta and I put Jermaine Dupri's "Welcome to Atlanta" on my Nokia phone. "Welcome to Atlanta where the players play." A Nokia phone.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:05:21
Oh my god, we are dating. Come on.
Nautrie Jones: 00:05:24
43 3153. I don't know. Something like that. I have that ringtone on my phone. And my line sisters and friends were like, "So, you're seriously going to move?" So, I was like, "Yeah, I am."
Ron Rapatalo: 00:05:35
What informed your move to Atlanta from college? Like, what?
Nautrie Jones: 00:05:39
So, I had a cousin at the time. She was older, but she had moved to Atlanta. She'd finished her undergrad degree, gotten her master's degree at a time in the 90s where Atlanta was like it, and I think it still is. I mean, people say we're full, but I think she moved at a time where it was really advantageous for a black woman to be.
And so I want to do that at some point. Cool. And I put that on my ringtone and I went through the semester thinking I'm moving. And so I finished in December 2002. In January 2003, I was in Atlanta.
And I lived, I say Atlanta, but I was right outside of Atlanta. I lived in Clayton County for a number of years. And you know, that's where it started. I think that was probably one of the biggest adult decisions that I had made to date.
But I remember thinking, if it doesn't work, whatever that means now, if it doesn't work out, I can just go back home. Home doesn't go away like where I grew up, that's not going away. So, I can just move back if it doesn't work out or maybe I'll go somewhere else. I remember thinking that. But I had no plan. I had no job. I just moved.
And it was there that I, you know, started to put my resume out talking to people. I met some folks and got my first job because I went to a Super Bowl party with a friend of my cousin's, my good friend's cousin. I went to a Super Bowl party with her. Met someone and they said, "What do you do? What's your background?" My degree is in child development. They said, "Come see me Monday." And I got my first job.
So, shout out to Super Bowl parties for employment, y'all.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:07:30
Shout out to not saying no to hey, you want to go somewhere? You want to go to a Super Bowl party? I don't know. You going to meet... who was playing in the Super Bowl that year? But I remember going there and getting a job at that party.
Nautrie Jones: 00:07:35
And so I started working almost immediately. I'd moved in January, Super Bowl in February. And so I was working doing pretty good and I got a call from an alternative school and I thought, "Wow, this is an opportunity to get into education. This could be really cool."
My undergrad degree was in child development, but I had originally gone to school after I changed my major a number of times. I had settled on education and thought, I want to be a teacher. And the only reason why I went into child development was because the laws changed in Texas regarding certification. And they added some practicum rules and classes that would have delayed my graduation by two semesters. So I just said, you know what, child development is still an entry point. So I did that.
And so I thought, wow, this is a way that I can get into education. And so I took that, I went had an interview, got that job, started out in alternative education, and that's when teaching happened. I taught for over 10 years.
I only stayed at the alternative school for a couple of years and I learned a valuable lesson about my value add in that space. It tells the story about I was quickly moved from a teaching assistant to the head of a learning community there and so I was leading a learning community with middle school girls in an alternative setting and we were doing some incredible work.
We were humanizing our students in a way that some of their colleagues were still learning how to do in a place that was built to devalue or push kids to the side or hold them in the system. We were doing incredible work with the young ladies who were in our learning community so much so that they were bringing district officials down to my learning community to see the work that we were doing. And I remember saying, "Wow, you know, this is really great. I love this. I'd stay here."
And the reason why I left was because they had started to hire a lot of retired individuals and wanted them to come in and work in the learning community. It was because certification rules were changing and at the time I hadn't gotten my certification yet. I was working on it and those people were coming and going and we were staying and our kids were doing well in an alternative setting that was very challenging.
And I remember passing my it was Praxis we had to take at the time. I passed the test and I went and I asked them to increase my salary. Please don't fall out of your chair. I asked them to increase my salary in 2000... This was probably 2005.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:10:46
Yeah.
Nautrie Jones: 00:10:47
Can you increase my salary to $40,000? Ron, it wasn't even a $10,000 difference. I said, "Can you increase my salary $10,000 to $40,000?" Right. They told me no. I passed my certification test and all I was asking for, and I'm sure these very wonderful people that they were hiring were making much more than that. But me, I'm like, you know…
Ron Rapatalo: 00:11:13
The salary scale.Yeah.
Nautrie Jones: 00:11:14
Right. So, I'm like, can you just pay me this? And they said, no. And that is why I left. That is why I left.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:11:25
Your worth.
Nautrie Jones: 00:11:27 Actually, I knew enough to know that I was a valuable contributor. I knew enough to know that what I was doing nobody else was doing and then the way that I was leading my team was different and was the reason why I still see my former students to this day and they're excited to see me and not angry with me.
So, I knew those things and there was way more I should have been asking for like I should have actually been demanding quite a bit more and advocating for better for some change because it was really an interesting environment.
So I left, I felt like I had no choice, and I joined a traditional public school setting taught for over a decade at that point had wonderful experiences.
And through that time I learned a couple of things. One that's when I was introduced to Teach For America. I was not in the Corps but a lot of my good friends were because they came through, you know, the school where I worked. And so I would mentor, train, support teachers, you know, we just wanted to do great work. It was another challenging setting, but another opportunity to do great work.
And also before I left the alternative setting, my thinking was what happens before this? How do we get ahead of this? So I wanted to try to do the work of getting to the root in my, you know, was kind of how I was thinking about is, you know, the students that I was working with were, you know, had been forgotten about in some instances by their schools, school settings in that environment. And so I just really wanted to think about and contribute to a solution.
And so that also drove my transition to a traditional public school setting. I started to think about how do I help?
And so I went into another to teach in a traditional setting for that reason as well. That was fun. That was incredible. Lots of learning lessons.
I think I had two ahas there. One was I was... it was probably my second year teaching there and my inclusion class, I taught middle school, 8th grade language arts and the inclusion teacher came to my class. Shout out to Miss Mills. She's still a friend now, but she had gotten transitioned over because her school had closed. And so she came to my classroom one day and she says, "What are you doing?"
And I said, "What do you mean?" And she said, "The kids in your classroom, they're working. They're doing what they're supposed to do. I'm all over this building and that is not happening in every classroom. What are you doing?"
And you know me, I'm just thinking you know, this is what we do. This is how we get down in this classroom. We don't really play about instructional time. This is what we do. And she said, "You need to pay closer attention to what you're doing because it is working and people can learn from it." Hadn't thought about it at all. Had not. All I knew was we had a set of procedures that we worked on when kids first came into the, you know, at the beginning of the school year. I was very clear on what I wanted in my learning environment and what that looked like. And I wanted kids to feel like, hey, I like this class. I can do work in this class and it's just what we do. I wanted to create that norm. And that's what we had.
But I didn't know I wasn't paying enough attention. Did I know that everyone wasn't doing what I was doing? And they didn't need to, but did I know that every classroom wasn't... every student wasn't 100% on track or on task and all those things that was coming up for her. I mean yeah some people you know had some challenges and that was the reality of it but did I see that as like a contributor and a place where I needed to pay close attention so that I can maybe add value to other people's work? And she insisted that I study my practice and that is when I started to pay closer attention to: What am I doing? What's working? Why is it working? How have I been because I had been how have I been using what I'm doing to help support other new teachers in the space who might have found themselves in challenging spots. I hadn't done... I hadn't been thinking about it in that way.
I just been doing my thing. And so after that year, before we started the next year, I created my own guide and things like that so that when people were saying, "Hey, how do you start your day?" Or, "How do you get kids on track when they're off track? How do you manage that lunchtime split where kids come to your classroom and then you got lunch and then you got to bring them back?" Those were things that were just what I was doing.
And that following year, I created a guide that one, I used to help teach the kids, but also use to help teachers.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:16:59
Yeah. I get... But think you being the second oldest of six informed a lot of your innate ability to organize and manage, right? This is something that was from your family upbringing. This was very natural to you.
So to have someone who could spot the light on you and say, "I see something bigger for you." That's not how she said it. But that was my... when you said when she said that and both of you being where we are today, I was like, "Oh, I know what that question is going. Nautrie needs to be leading because we got to scale what she does."
But she didn't save you that way. She let you go in your discovery process to figure it out, which is also really brilliant.
Nautrie Jones: 00:17:33
Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:17:59
But she didn't save you that way. She let you go in your discovery process to figure it out, which is also really brilliant.
Nautrie Jones: 00:17:39
Yeah. She let me go, but she was my... I saw her every day. So she trust me, she did not let me just... not.
So she made sure that... and you know what else she started to do because we had just met, but I guess we had been working together for a couple months and so we were new colleagues and she just had this magical way of starting to name what she saw.
You know she you know when there was a shift or change and she'd say something like you just remember that student who you... that's a brand new student you just got a week ago. You didn't even teach them what they needed to do. Those two students over there taught that child what to do and how things operate in your class. Do you know that you didn't do that? And I thought I guess I didn't. You know, it's just what we did. And so or how I was operating.
And so I think that was one of the first places where for some reflection had to happen and where it started to hone that thing that I was probably like to your point was nurtured in me.
But some people would say you're a Virgo. So, you've always been doing this thing anyway. But that is Virgo behavior. My godfather to both of my girls is a Virgo and he's very Virgo. Very Virgo energy. So, you know, I think but to be a little bit more intentionally reflective. So, I think that was the first thing.
The second thing that I needed that I didn't realize I needed probably happened in year... I had been there maybe seven years at the time.
And I remember by this time, you know, I'm grade... I've been grade level chair, you know, mentor, teacher. All of the titles that aren't really the titles, that you don't get extra money for, that earn you Jean Day or whatever the case may be. So, I'd done all of those things and I remember thinking, I would really like to teach teachers. I have no clue how to do that.
And you know, in a school setting, there's always people who come and teach teachers, whether they're district level folks, whether they're outside consultants that come in. And I remember when we were getting what were called Promethean boards, you know, the smart boards were getting installed. We were the last school in the district to get them, but we were finally getting them. And they had this person, she came in, and I remember thinking, I could do that.
And then somebody else came and I thought, I could do that. She came back for our second round because there were multiple rounds to just kind of teach you all the things. And I said to myself, I'm going to ask her about that. I stayed after and I said, "Why don't you get into this?" Cuz she had told us that she was a teacher. How did you go from teacher to "I travel and teach teachers about Promethean boards"? And she told me, you know, she applied for a job and she told me her story and I said, "Wow, that's really incredible. Thank you for that."
I didn't ask for her contact information. All I needed, I think, at this point was the... that's how you did it. Got it. You know, noted.
And Ron, you won't believe this, but that night I went home and I still have this email and I emailed... I started to think, well, who else comes to our school? What else do I know? Well, I thought about Scholastic, right? The book fair, the people that come like different curriculum, all of this stuff.
So I went online and found Scholastic and I sent an email like on the contact us and I basically asked how do you become a consultant for Scholastic and somebody responded and told me who I needed to talk to.
They responded and they connected me with the International Center for Leadership and Education, ICLE. They're still around today. Well, I think they're something else now.
But and Ron, I was still teaching. And that blind... that email that went into the ether, I ended up from that email, I ended up becoming a very part-time consultant with Scholastic through Scholastic. I was traveling as a full-time teacher. I was traveling, not long trips, but like a day trip, overnight trip to Ohio, you know what I mean? Just to... and I was teaching teachers about rigor and relevance.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:22:38
Wow.
Nautrie Jones: 00:22:39
And I did that for about six, eight months. My daughter was young. My youngest was a baby at the time. I'd had two kids over all of these years and gotten married as well. So, I had my two girls. They were very young.
And it just... it was just like it was like it was just enough to light the fire, to prove to me it could be done, that it was a thing, that was possible, that there was a need, that I could do it, that I was good at it. It was like that because it didn't last long.
But I did meet some people that I'm still very good friends with today. A colleague that I was working with now at the time, like she's also a full-time, she's a full-time consultant, was with Scholastic with them for a very long time because of my experience and so I think it was for the right reasons but for me it was just like a spark.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:24:23
Yeah. You know, when you and I were chatting in our pre-green room conversation that people often ask you about you went from teacher to talent strategist.
I think I'm seeing some of the connections through the story here very clearly right because sometimes when we're given opportunity particularly the K-12 ed space which could be very bureaucratic and very like driven by oh sometimes very antiquated Byzantine rules right you not getting that 10k pay raise though you were doing the work may not have had the quote unquote whatever the credentials were to merit raise, but you had the results, right? That got you to find something else.
My question would be, hm, in the performance management world, and the competition world, how do you actually build that system? Right. Right.
And then with this situation, right, how does then your district not see your brilliance, have you be the person who's given a stipend or something to be able to start teaching teachers and you had to get that experience from sending an email to the contact page at Scholastic to get an opportunity for eight months to learn. You know what I'm saying?
Like in my head, I go, "No wonder you've learned some stuff that wasn't in the usual confines of where you should have structurally been given the opportunity to at least have the opportunity to earn it, which I think you would have, but didn't because of the way that the talent strategy was designed in these places."
Nautrie Jones: 00:25:55
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:25:56
Because for me, I was just like, "No wonder." Because if you haven't had the experience yourself to go through that, how do you then have the empathy when you're working with clients to say, "Oh, these are some of the challenges I have." Oh, yeah. I had to go through that myself.
And it gives me sort of like the lens of being able to really understand because I think without the empathetic understanding, it's really hard to design for things that are going to help others. My two cents…
Ron Rapatalo: 00:26:23
You know… Your two cents, and the only thing I'd add to that, I think I said this in the green room, I'm like, I'm a black woman, right? Empathy is like that's just what I have. It... I think it created the conditions for in a very challenging environment in an alternative school to create like and this I didn't talk a lot about this, but in the learning community that I managed, most of my colleagues, my peers were shuffling kids through the door, telling them to sit down and not really seeing them.
We created a space where if you came in late, right before my office, we had a little cubby area off to the side where you could come in and like there was a mirror if you needed to do your hair. There was extra breakfast in case you missed breakfast. There was just space. There was bean bag chair over your over there in case just in case you had missed your bus and had to walk to school in the rain and just needed a moment.
We had extra clothes. We had feminine products and sanitary items to like you know, deodorant, things like deodorant because maybe, just maybe, you know what I mean?
We had supplies to do your hair because maybe you didn't have time to do that.
We had a meeting when you came back from maybe you got suspended because something happened on the bus. And we would sit down and talk with you about like, okay, it's okay. Let's let that be in the past. And we called it like a clean slate or something. I can't remember what we called it where it was like, we're not going to hold yesterday over your head. It is about today. Let's focus on today and move forward.
And so we, you know, my team at the time was just incredibly bought into the vision of what if we did this a little bit different? What if we did this this way?
And so, yes, my journey certainly continued to build and nurture that empathetic muscle. And I kind of think it's the through line when you talk about the connection to teacher to talent strategy.
How I at the end of the day I mean I got two kids and I always said these are people. They're going to grow up and God willing and they are going to be incredible contributors to society right to do that.
I got to see them as people like yes you're my baby and you are a person with feelings and emotions and the same I want you to see me as bigger than just your mom. The way I see you as bigger than just my 15-year-old or my now 19-year-old. I've always felt that way since the day they were born.
And so I think the gift that I have of seeing people and wanting to nurture their greatness in the ways that I'm allowed or afforded the opportunity to.
It's funny now. I mean, you and I did that networking session a few years ago at that conference. That was so much fun. And we talked about our people are we're communal people. We're not people who do things in isolation. And so I think a lot of that connectedness still rings true today in my journey where I'll meet people and I'm like, "How can I help you? How can I support your work?" And they're like, "Are you serious?" And I'm like, "I'm absolutely serious. I want to see you win. I want to see you win a hundred times over. Let's figure out how I can contribute if there's a way." And I mean it, you know, and so I think that empathy and that genuine desire to see people win and thrive, you know. I think it's what my grandmother wanted.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:30:18
I was about to say when you started your story with who you are, the daughter and niece of etc. Right. You're coming from an abundance mindset.
You cannot be consistently proactive like you and I are in saying, "How can I be helpful and really mean it and follow up on it if you're not trying to actively cultivate and have an abundance mindset, right?
Because at some level, if you don't have that mindset, you're not always going to offer it because you think you won't get something that's mine." And I think you and I have learned that the social capital that we have, it's not ours, it's to be shared.
It's a spiritual like currency I would say is what that is right because it's never been ours. It's collective. We are there's more than enough bridges of that. We are connectors of that. All we're doing is letting the spirit move us and give space to ask others to see the abundance that's in front of them.
Oh, that got biblical. Hello. You passed the pass.
Nautrie Jones: 00:31:29
I think, you know, to your point about abundance, there really is more than enough. There really is more than enough. And that I think the scarcity mindset around you get... I think we're seeing this play out in society, right? Like if we do this, then that means this group doesn't have that. And that's a lie. That's a myth. That is untrue.
And so I you know lots of lessons have been learned and I think as I was teaching and learning these lessons and able to have a set of experiences there was a part of me that still needed to be nurtured as well.
To your point of you know why wouldn't you be offered an opportunity... it you know and I could be wrong I could be very wrong when I say this but I only remember one principle saying you need to be doing more. There were many and we had a lot of principles in my school for obvious reasons. It was a challenging environment and you know transitions happen.
One I can only remember one. I had colleagues certainly right, I had and I worked with some brilliant teachers and there was also a part of me who didn't feel seen right there was also a part of me that minimized my talent and created a box when I hate boxes I created a box for myself and said you know this is teaching like you said you wanted to be a teacher like teach.
Right. I think there was also a part of me where life I said this before my kids were young and so yeah the demands of day-to-day and what needed to happen in my life at the time. Teaching fit. It fit. It made sense. I was good at it. I knew what I needed to do. It was predictable. And when my kids were younger, that predictability was very helpful. That consistency, that knowing when I'll be off, when I needed to be on, and how that could look. Chef's kiss.
I think after years of that navigating that, when that season could evolve, I hadn't nurtured the mindset that needed to be true in order for me to really say, "All right, I can go after this thing. It was a me thing. It was a thing."
And when you aren't... when nobody is... your colleagues, that's fantastic, right? That matters. When your colleagues are nurturing you and they're saying how great you are, but you don't like the bureaucracy equals your school leader. Even switching schools just to go, hey, I'd like to try to work at a different school was foolishness.
So there at the time there was this rule where if you were one of the top teachers or one of the bottom teachers, you couldn't transfer. What? What? Why? And so I couldn't transfer because I was one of the top teachers. And so it was like this. That rule was never explained to y'all. It just was a rule. It was... And it could have been a rumor.
But what I do know is, you know, at the time I was working in a district that was very political. The... there was a lot happening and it wasn't... and there was backlash. You tried to leave and how the you know the principal might take it personal. It was a lot.
And so all of those things happening, I'm also learning how to nurture my own talent and figure out what I like and what I want to do, right, to move through.
And it wasn't until maybe the year before I left, actually the year I left, I had a principal who was basically like, you should be doing more.
And I'm not still connected to him now for different reasons, but I appreciate that because I had remember a few years ago I had said I wanted to teach teachers. So that was still very clear and it was pressing and it was pulling because it was the thing that I knew I wanted to do. I just need to figure out how to do it.
And I had a colleague Teach For America corps member. He had taught for two years. He was my math teacher. Shout out to Ahmed.
He had taught next door. He was the math teacher on my team. The second year he was at the school and he left to go and work at Teach For America in our Atlanta office.
He was asked, "Hey, do you know anybody who would be great to join staff?" And he says, "I absolutely do." And he puts my name in the hat and next thing I know, I get an email to join staff like they move fast.
Yeah. Needless to say, at the same time, that principal, you know, was trying to help me become an instructional coach.
And so I went from, you know, this thing I had said I wanted a few years ago, the thing I said I wanted before I moved to Texas. Hey, I'm going to be a teacher. I want to work in education. So, I get what I want.
And now I'm being in a position to move into the next phase of my life or my career to train teachers.
And while all of this is happening, so much of life is changing. My daughter's in school now. My youngest was in child care. So, we're, you know, fumbling and bumbling around with little kids and navigating life. And here you are, you have the audacity to try to change careers. Well, not change careers, like move into a different area.
And when I tell you, you know, for all the criticism of Teach For America, some of it very valid, a lot of it actually. But the people, the connection and to the work, the why behind the work, why it matters, the opportunity, the growth, the learning that came from that experience.
Gosh, I'm an honorary alum. Like I tell them all the time, y'all need to make an honorary alum at this point because I just feel like I need to be and I know a lot of other people who join staff.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:38:29
I think people naturally assume you and I went through the Corps.
Nautrie Jones: 00:38:31They absolutely do.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:38:32 I get a lot... we give off Teach for energy, right?
And it's funny then I tell people I'm a staff alum. They go, "Oh, you were? That's just really you didn't teach?"
I'm like, "Well, you know, but I have teaching. I tutored. I've like there's a lot of the stuff that I've done that's not directly teaching in the K-12 classroom that I've had elements of it. I think I have sort of a mindset for it, though I think I realized early on it was never going to be exactly for me, but it always held such deep respect for folks who work directly in classrooms, right?
It's just it's what I've done for so long around talent acquisition, like respecting those people, their stories, where they want to go next. It's something that is built a lot of like education and like Frankensteining a lot of those stories together." You did what? Haha.
Nautrie Jones: 00:39:37
Yeah. Well, but I think it's similar to what we just talked about around like it's probably a lot too of who you are and your ability to just see people and connect with people across their careers like any instance.
And so I think that I is the... was one of the iterations of Teach For America's model where it was where it really focused on who is the person. They're oh, they're career changer. And so you can't treat them like that traditional college grad. Like they don't fit that model. And so we have to change and shift what that means and how we talk to people.
So I see some connections there.
So I joined staff at Teach For America. It was easy and hard to leave traditional public school. I joined that team as a coach.
Before I left, I had been a director of teaching and development where I did a lot of the professional development training and I did and then I led the teacher leadership development team which was just about everything from oky, you're here now. You've gone through institute all the way through, okay, you finished your two-year commitment, let's talk about what's next.
And so the... oh there were so many lessons learned there. I think the people is the through line there. But the one thing that I think was continuously reinforced there was that reflective skill.
When I first joined staff, I was deeply... what is that word... where like self-conscious. I didn't know where I fit. I didn't you know the speak... the TFA speak. I didn't have that. I didn't understand what they were talking about. These books that people were talking about that they read. Who read this? When did you have time to read this because I've been teaching? I don't know what you're talking about.
And I had a phenomenal manager there who would religiously remind me, "No, no, no, friend. We hired you for a reason. What I just heard you do with that teacher, your judgment, that is the stuff. You made these connections. That is the thing. That is who you are. Don't ever forget that."
And so she continued to fuel that in me. And because remember I'm going from you know a very predictable if you will like setting I know what I'm doing I'm I understand my craft deeply I've been Teacher of the Year I you know fisherman prize like honorable mention I had I knew what I was doing.
And now I'm going into this space where what am I doing what are they talking about can I do this?
I remember I'd been there about a month and Teach For America, you know, your schedule's mostly flexible. You fill your calendar outside of typical meetings and I remembered it was a Friday. I had worked from home and I said, "Oh, I'm going to go in the office." This was very I should not have done this, but you work from home half day on a Friday and then midday you drive from your house to Midtown. Why would you do that, friend? What was that? Did you do that? That's a really good question.
Because I thought I was still... I still felt like somebody was watching me. Ron. I walked into that office. There was no one there.
No, I was about to say I even stepped out of the elevator like looking around. No one was looking. Nobody cared that I had been at home in my pajamas doing my reflective step back whatever the thing was that I was working on. Nobody cared. Nobody cared at all.
There I saw one person, maybe two, and they said, "Hey, what are you doing?" They had their purse on their shoulder.
I was like, "Oh, okay. Okay, cool."
So, I think that reflective muscle continued to be honed there and refined where and I think it was where I stood in it. I didn't realize it. And then I had another manager, her name was Justinta Williams, where she was like, "You do know you're reflective, right?" Yeah, you are. You don't have to have a notebook to be reflective to think about your thinking. That's right. You're already doing that.
The other thing that I got really that I got practice at was having an idea. And it's not that I hadn't done these things before. It was just nurtured in these spaces.
And she taught me I was able to I am a person who's never been able to answer the question. So what do you want to do next in five years? Where do you see yourself? I don't know the answer to that. I hate that question.
What I have always done is said I've looked at what different skills that I noticed people had and said, I want to learn how to do that.
You do that. I like I remember there were a couple people on our team that I love the way that they talked about data, right? I came from a public school in Atlanta. I knew how to talk about data, but I really appreciated how I saw them lay it out.
So, I knew the thing, but how they were doing it, I appreciated how they thought about it. And so, I said, I want to be able to do that. I want to do that better.
And so, I got this practice of identifying a skill and then taking it on and like bringing something to fruition. So, our team data so I took on our team data talks and data analysis.
I said, "Oh, I want to practice taking a vision to action." And so, I planned our new teacher induction. You know, I want to set the vision. I want to bring the team along. I want to create buy-in. I want to think about the content and pull it all together. And I want to do that. So, I did it.
And so, I think that was the cool thing there.
I think what it helped me to see was in those experiences I can have a vision. I can bring people together to help them see what needs to happen. I can, you know, give them the tools and resources to make that happen.
And there's a gap between there... there's still something to think about related to what do people need beyond the tools and the resources to make sure that they get it done, right?
Is that coaching? Did I just ask a person to do our project plan who's never done a project plan before? Right.
And so are there is there training or support that they need in order to do that?
And I liked thinking about that gap like how do we help people get the tools that they need to thrive? You want to do it. You're excited to do it. You're on fire about the vision for the vision and where we're headed, but there's something else that you might need.
And I like thinking about what that is, what is the root. And it's not always you know, read this book or do this or just do it. It's coaching. It's sometimes templates. It is sometimes helping them unpack mindsets that might be holding them back. It's all of these things that I figured out that I want to focus on that.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:48:04
Sounds like a really good segue into how you got into talent strategy. So, I'm going to fast forward us. You and the brilliant Travonnie Mackey form Empact Work.
Tell me a little bit about the work you do and how you function around what you do around talent strategy for Empact Work.
Nautrie Jones: 00:48:21
Yep. Yep. I appreciate that because that's exactly where I was.
So, it was there, it was at Teach For America that I met Travonnie and we used to identify a problem and on Fridays or other days we'd get into a room and we would problem solve. We would do the teacher thing of unpacking root causes and noticing what's happening and build a model that we thought would help. That's what we were doing all along.
And so a couple of years ago, we came together and said, "Wait a minute. I care about this. You care about this. Let's do this."
And an aha I had a few months ago as I was talking about this was people ask how long has Empact been around or what have you and I always say we've been building Empact for over a decade because that's how long Travonnie and I have been knowing each other and solving problems and even when we weren't working together we were still meeting and collaborating and saying what do people need? What's holding people back?
Wouldn't it have been great if I had this system or solution, if I had this level of clarity around what success looks like, if I understood how career pathways worked, if I understood why I was paid what I paid or what I was getting in exchange for my talent, right?
That's what we get to do at Empact. So, we both said yes.
And I think two things are true... at one thing that's true is we both have had different experiences with managers and we know the value of having a great manager.
And so we are each other's manager. So we do manager training and support. We try to equip managers with the tools that they need, the resources that they need to really help ensure that they can set their people up for success.
We also built a lot of stuff. And so when we talk about our value proposition, that's where we're asking and helping companies figure out what are people getting? What are you promising to your talent? They're going to bring you their brilliance. What are you promising them?
So we get to help them figure that out and clarify that so people don't have to wonder. They don't have to grind without clarity. They know if you expect them to work 40 hours, 32 hours, how they expect to navigate with a 4-day work week if that's what you offer. They know it and they're clear on it. And so we get to help organizations do that.
And then I think the other piece is we help companies and organizations align their strategic plan. And so if people can't see themselves in your strategic plan, your performance management system. They don't understand how those things work. They are unclear. We're using language that doesn't really give people clarity on how they should show up.
We also help them create their orientations and say let the behaviors that you demonstrate when you're working. For us it's rigor, joy, learning, those things that make the work work.
And so we started Empact a couple of years ago and we've been going and growing ever since.
We get to work with companies and organizations. We say to create workplaces where people love to go. We think that it is the idea that people are going to work feeling undervalued, not appreciated, unclear, not knowing if they're successful, or seeing other people think they're successful, but because I have a different manager, I'm not. We don't want them to have to question that.
And so we work with organizations to clarify those things. And it feels like a dream that I get to do it and that it's my company that I'm building alongside Travonnie. But that's what we're doing at Empact.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:52:14
I am so excited that both you and Travonnie and your team are flourishing. I can't wait to see what more empact the two of you and your team will have in the social empact space probably beyond right because I most of all just believe in the two of you and who you are as people as leaders right and that matters so much right when you know the heart of the people leading a place for me that's something I think I have a pretty astute judgment of and something I watch in my business development world when I was doing a lot of recruitment right is like I think you know going back to the empathy conversation that you and I have been having here is we have a skill of being able to kind of understand what makes someone's heart move, their values, right?
If I use the language that people we use in our like the talent space, right? You know, how someone aligns their values to their actions.
That's what matters most to me. It's why I also created this podcast, right? Because what matters most to me is not necessarily, although it's amazing that you and Travonnie have formed this company, you're doing amazing work as leaders, it's the story of how you got there. It's what you learn. For me, that's the lesson.
I found really good in my estimation training, coaching that gets things to stick, right? Because what is very human for me through our lifetime of being homo sapiens for like, you know, tens of thousands of years is the story that we have transmitted and shared. It's also the story we tell ourselves, right?
So that story for me is so integral to really understanding the part that I'm playing and having you in this space of sharing how did Nautrie get to where she is, what has she learned? And I think for me that's so instructive because it goes, "Oh, now this all makes even more sense than before when we recorded this conversation." So that for me is like a gift. So thank you.
So we are ready for the Ronderings question because we're rounding about that time. So, what's the Rondering? What's the lesson or value you want to share today? Nautrie, if you want to share two, you can also share too because I've had guests.
Nautrie Jones: 00:54:41
I will keep it brief. Keep it brief. We'll cut that's based on some learning that I had recently and I think it's very simple actually.
The thing that I've learned recently that I would offer is when you have an idea and it won't go away. You can't shake it. Just kind of feel it. It may not be a business. It might be a business. It may be a person. It may be a thing that you need to like it just won't go away, right? Explore it. Get curious. Get quiet and get curious.
And I think that's where things like I want to train teachers. I want to move to Atlanta. I want to teach. I want to start a company.
When I look when Travonnie and I compared notes about Empact I have to tell this part she and I it was a phone call she was like have you been writing about this and I said I put some stuff in my journal and she said send me yours I'll send you mine if you laid those two things on top of each other they are identical. They are identical.
We did not plan to go into business together our journey brought us together because we went on this evolution or this road or pathway of continuous learning and curiosity.
Some of it was hard and we didn't understand why we were dealing with or navigating the things that we navigated. But I think that curiosity never went away and there's some optimism. Travonnie's better at that than me, but there's some optimism that is always carrying us.
But I think curiosity that thing when that thing won't go away and you're like I'm not a this, I'm not a that. Maybe it's who you're called to be in this next or new season that you're entering into. And so I'd say don't discount that voice.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:56:36
Yeah, I love that. Which is why I continue this podcast cuz the itch to keep recording and all the brilliant amazing multi-hyphenated leaders who practicing sacred syncretism like you. I don't I'm not done yet. I have more more more amazing people like you to get the mic.
Nautrie Jones: 00:56:53
It's so big. Thank you for letting me share some space with you this afternoon.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:57:00
Well, thank you, Nautrie. Before we let you go, how do people find you? What would you like to promote?
Nautrie Jones: 00:57:04
Oh, I heard you say, "What would I like to promote?"
So, actually, something really exciting, and you know, maybe that we'll call this a sneak peek. I don't really know. But one of the things that has continued to happen over the last year and a half is people have consistently said, "I'm a manager. My company is not working with you. Can can can I participate in a training?" And the answer up until now has been no.
The answer friends is yes. We are now offering training that folks, you know, think about workplaces where you've worked where if you wanted to just go and get professional development, you can get it yourself.
And so, we're going to be offering professional development directly to managers. In the past, it's been your company had to be working with us for you to get the training. Now, we are offering our the first set of trainings starting in November, just a couple of weeks. We're just about to launch this.
Um, so maybe by the time this goes live, it will already be there. But you can go to our website www.empact.work and sign up for our three-part training. There are three trainings every month. So November, December, and January that you can sign up for and pay for on your own whether your company's working with us or not.
We are we heard you and we are offering that. So I said you can find us on www.empact.work. Did I say .com? I apologize. Empact.work.
And you can also follow us on LinkedIn. Empact is on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn. Travonnie's on LinkedIn. Join the conversation. We post pretty regularly.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:58:44
So, y'all do post pretty regularly. Someone who also lives inside of LinkedIn. I'm like, y'all y'all got your LinkedIn game on. Stop it.
Nautrie Jones: 00:58:52
We're trying.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:58:54
Beautiful. Nautrie.
I'm gonna quote someone from the A who played for your Falcons way back in the day, who I end with a quote from at the end of every episode. In words of Deion Sanders, we always come hot.
Y'all should know Nautrie and other amazing guests, that's just the standard that we have here on Ronderings. Peace.
Nautrie Jones: 00:59:24
Bye y'all. Thank you.
Ron Rapatalo: 00:59:26
That was my conversation with Nautrie Jones of Empact Work and I hope you felt as grounded and inspired as I did.
What stood out to me was how Nautrie blends empathy and strategy reminding us that care and clarity don't compete to actually strengthen each other. If you took something from this episode, share it with a colleague or a friend who's building culture with intention. These are the kinds of conversations that ripple outward.
If you haven't already, follow, subscribe to Ronderings wherever you listen to podcasts and stay tuned for more stories and insights from leaders doing purpose-driven work with heart. Until next time, keep reflecting, keep connecting, and keep rounding.
Thank you for listening to today's Rondering. I enjoyed hanging out with me and my guest, and I hope you leave with something worth chewing on.
If it made you smile, think, or even roll your eyes in a good way, pass it along to someone else. I'm Ron Rapatalo, and until next time, keep wandering, keep laughing, and keep becoming.
01:01:15