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The Long Short Way is a podcast hosted by Rabbi Mendy Bistritzky, where meaningful stories meet soulful conversations. Each episode explores the winding paths of personal growth, faith, and purpose—highlighting the unexpected ways that challenge can lead to clarity, and that the "long short way" is often the most direct route to real transformation.
Through heartfelt storytelling and thoughtful interviews, Rabbi Mendy speaks with individuals about their spiritual journeys, life experiences, and the moments that shaped who they are today.
Produced by Chabad of Saugus, this podcast invites you to slow down, dig deeper, and discover the beauty in the process.
Subscribe and join us on the journey.
Mendy Bistritzky (00:01)
Okay, I will formally introduce you. Rabbi Mendel Zerkin, back in the studio. now remote because you've you've moved to Australia and we miss you here in California, but we are proud to see that you've really spreading your light on the other side of the world, Bar Hashem. So the reason why I asked you to to join back on is because I wanted to do something in honor of the high holidays, in honor of Rishashana.
And I think we'll call this conversation. We'll title it Why is this year going to be different than all other years? It'll be a conversation about Truva, which means to repent, to return, to change ourselves as we enter the new year. And I thought of no better person to discuss these ideas than yourself. And we were speaking about it on WhatsApp anyway, so I figured we'll we'll jump on a recording and that way we can put it out there.
mendel zirkind (00:57)
Well, thanks for having me back on. It's definitely an honor and it's great to spend some time with you. have some good, deep, meaningful conversations, which in my current position is not always necessarily available. but yeah, I mean our last our last get together on this kind of forum was definitely a very
was it was a journey for me, so it was a journey and I hope people appreciated it and yeah looking forward to this conversation as well. As ratasham about Shuva. We we were talking on on WhatsApp and mentioning about Shuva being you know sometimes we feel a bit like a hypocrite like
I know I'm gonna do the same things I did again. So then why am I focusing on Shiva and
is the chuv real? Maybe my chuvas therefore, you know, not sincere, or not having the effect it needs to have. and I was thinking about it, you know, like we say the Al Ketz, which is, the Vidui, the
confession
prayer, and we say the same thirty six, whatever the number is, of the
of the confessions, the same list again and again and again, and the following year the same ones again and again and again. Which means that we're probably doing the same mistakes again and again and again. So this is not just us feeling like we're gonna we're sort of bound to repeat this, but it's very much in the eyes of you know the great rabbis have seen sort of a similar kind of trend and there are in the
books that there is that a person who falls or struggles in a specific area most likely is going to continue that struggle. And that's the challenge that they're born with almost and, you know, for some people that challenge is maybe keeping kosher or keeping the Shabbos or being honest or
truthful or whatever it may be and those are the challenges a person is born with.
Mendy Bistritzky (03:26)
Why do you think?
We keep on you know, I think it was a Mark Twain, he says quitting to smoke is the easiest thing. I've done it a hundred times already. Why do you wh why is it that it's so natural to get stuck in the same pattern? And what would you say is the first step out of that cycle?
mendel zirkind (03:50)
Well, I think that part of it is that there's a certain wiring, you know. In in in in Gemara in in the Talmud we have an interesting anecdote where the
one of the rabbis asks of another, Bama Avuach Zoratve, what was your father more more careful with? And
Balatania in Datanya in his book Tatanya discusses this passage and says that every person has their their portion. Every person has their area that is designed for them or given over to them as their areas that they need to improve or their specialty and their qualities and so on and so forth. It's designed specifically they're designed to sort of work in that area. That's what the Balatany calls Guralenu versus Khalam.
volcano our are lot, our are our are portion.
on the other side of that, meaning that's in the positive realm, but I think on the negative sort of the areas where we struggle with, I think each person is given naturally or as we come into the world we're sort of given specific challenges because those are the areas that Hashem wants us to
work through and therefore although on some level it's like okay so I've worked through this challenge already, I've made efforts. Why do I still need to struggle with it?
and the way the Balatanya sees this is that there's many layers and levels. He quotes the verse that King David says, Vichatasi Nagdisami, that my sin is always impressed present by me, which means that Davramalach King David, however much he's worked on whatever the sin refers to, whether it's the story with him and Bhat Cheva that particular sin, which is interesting 'cause in the
Tamla, there's a debate or there's a discussion at least whether that was actually a sin or not. But he he used that as recognizing a fault within himself and an area that requires improvement, but he wasn't satisfied to say, okay, now I've fully I'm over it, but constantly recognize it as layers and layers and layers. And therefore I think just from this sort of very like
more essential level, I think we are given these challenges and the objective of it is to be able to for us to refine those. So it could be that two people have the same challenges but the way that each person is going to handle them is going be different. So each person is going to refine
or elevate or channel th this particular struggle in a specific way and the other person in another way. And that's what the design is. So that's sort of on an essential, you know, deeper dimension level. On a psychological level is we're we're wired certain ways through habit. And that becomes our our safety. That becomes our comfort.
or
Mendy Bistritzky (06:52)
The known.
mendel zirkind (06:53)
yeah. Yeah. and therefore as long as they don't treat and deal with the underlying issue or don't make don't have a real deep understanding of
why they're doing what they're doing, they're gonna continue doing it.
So on a psychological level, it's perhaps the lack of recognition of the fact that these are go tos that we have to feel a sense of security and maybe not fully appreciating
why we go there, what it does to us and deeper why we're struggling and needing these particular things.
Mendy Bistritzky (07:35)
So it's interesting,
it sounds like you're saying that our constant struggles that keep on resurfacing is really Hashem almost showing us the areas of our life that we really need to dig deeper in.
mendel zirkind (07:48)
Yeah.
Mendy Bistritzky (07:48)
how can I view my struggles in a way where I they can actually allow me to go deeper and to discover a deeper part of myself and a deeper part of my purpose?
mendel zirkind (07:59)
I I was starting to say that in our in our WhatsApp conversation, you shared with me a beautiful idea about I'm I may not be quoting you correctly here, but the idea that the sin is Hashem's reminder of, you know, that he wants a relationship with us or something to that effect. Maybe you could
Mendy Bistritzky (08:21)
Yeah, it's
a reminder that that we're out of alignment, I think, or something like that.
mendel zirkind (08:24)
that were out of alignment
and I think that's beautiful because I've used an analogy of like, you know, shame and guilt where perhaps today's way of thinking has been like, okay, remove shame. We shouldn't feel ashamed. And although it has its truth,
But really, what a shame. Shame is the body's recognition
the mind's recognition, the psyche's recognition that something is amiss, something is misaligned. Just like physically if a person, you know, gets hit and the body reacts that there's pain, that's the physical, neurological s system that allows us to become aware of pain and if God forbid someone can feel pain, that could be extremely dangerous. So there's an emotional system of recognizing what's healthy and unhealthy and that's what shame is. So I was thinking when you were sharing with me this line that's sort of like the
Sin is almost like the idea of a sin, even to the extent of saying God is putting that tension in our lives, because it's a way of us saying that
There's something wrong here, there's something missing, there's something lacking. And the problem is then we get caught up on the sin and we get stuck in the sin and therefore that becomes our whole relationship versus no, that was just the signal to say there's something wrong, something going on that's deeper than the sin kind of thing. And
Mendy Bistritzky (09:49)
Yeah, it's almost
like the greatest sin is not l learning the lesson from the sin.
mendel zirkind (09:55)
Right. there's a very difficult passage in the Talmud in Tractate Avoda Zora. The Tractate Avotzora deals with a lot of various interesting things, but very in the beginning it discusses this sin that we mentioned about King David with Batheva.
s story is that he saw her and he he desired her and had relations with her, although she was married at the time. But the Talmud elsewhere says that because her husband, Uryahiti, was a soldier and out, you know, in war, they w would r send a divorce document, a d get to their wives prior to going out. So legally, halakhically, technically they weren't married.
That's a justification. But the Gemara in in tracted of a Dazara, the Talmudir sees it as a sin. And the Talmudir says that really King David wasn't fit for this. It wasn't his nature, so to speak. This wasn't a sin for it wasn't something that he could really do. But God made him do it in order to give the space for chuva to take place.
And it's a difficult passage because that means that
So what am I responsible for? When could I say I have free choice? Right? It gets into that whole question. But just thinking about it, it highlights this idea that you were saying, which is that the sin is not the cause, the sin is not the focus. There is something more to it. It's the chuva, it's the relationship that's broken, and that needs to be fixed. And you mentioned
he mentioned a chuva as repentance or return and famously the the reb is saying how chuva does not mean repentance. That's the word a associated with repentance in Hebrew is harata. shuva means to return. And
The
idea of chuva means we're returning back to ourselves. we're tapping back into the truth of ourselves and we want to reconnect to the deepest part of ourselves. And sometimes we need the reminders that we're not there. And now to go back to your question, you're saying, Well
so how does one recognize this? And how does one, you know, begin to recognize that, Hashem gave me certain challenges and certain potential desires or whatever it may be, and how do I appreciate
Mendy Bistritzky (12:30)
Proclivities and
mendel zirkind (12:31)
Yeah, proclivities that how and how and how do I recognize what they're really there for? I think I think it begins with first understanding this this message, which is the sin is not is not the center focus, and recognizing that the center focus is the tshuva, which means it's the relationship itself. And in Chasidus it talks about the fact how really there's two paths in life that Hashem has set out. There's the path of the tzadik.
the righteous person and there's the path of the Baal Chuva, the one who does chuva. And really God desires more the pathway of the chuvva, of the one who's doing chuva over the tzadik. The problem is it's too dangerous. If we give the pathway for everybody to sin and then do chuva, there's a chance that that won't happen. But if we think about it and recognize again this whole idea, it sort of becomes much more c powerful to us to recognize that it's not about the sin, it's about the relationship. It's about the connection.
on a psychological level, where a person is saying, you know, I keep on struggling with the same things. How do I appreciate them to recognize, you know, what's really going on? I think that requires a person to more
ask a perhaps a a more fundamental question and that is why am I wha wha what w what do I see as my my my my focus in life? why why why am I here? Wha what's my purpose, you know,
Who am I?
These questions are are very deep and could be very much you could get lost in these questions and we probably never really get an answer to the question. But it at least begins the process of going beyond the sin. It goes beyond the struggles I have. And the problem is is that when I identify and associate myself with the struggle and the challenge, let's say someone is struggling with depression or O C D or anxieties in general or addiction or whatever it may be, the b
Biggest thing that needs to be avoided is don't associate yourself as those things. And when a person could make that separation, they say, Well, there's if this is not me, that means there's something larger, there's something deeper, there's something more fundamental than me. And then
Mendy Bistritzky (14:44)
It's it's it's interesting, I'm
just it just came to mind is that when a person does an Aveir or sin, we think about Shuva, it's almost Hashan telling the person, Stop seeing yourself this way.
In other words, Hashem's hope when we sin is that this this this sin remind us that we're so much better than this. I mean, that the
mendel zirkind (15:06)
Right.
Mendy Bistritzky (15:06)
Truva remind we're so much better than this.
mendel zirkind (15:08)
Yeah. And coming to Rosh Hashanah and you know, the idea in Hasid is that explains that Rosh Hashanah ha there's the essential element of the day and sort of the the development or the thing that emerges from that and the essential element is accepting God as king and which is an essential element s rooted in our essence and God's essence and all of that.
and then Shiva comes after that. 'Cause you can't really do shiva unless you acknowledge and accept God as your king. Shiva means I messed up in my relationship, but do I have a relationship and do I want the relationship? So the idea of Rosh Hashanah, the way it's explained the Hasidis is is is the acceptance. It's like getting married and saying, I do
and and that is the beginning and the foundation and the root of of everything that emer emerges after that which even allows for tva. So from that point of view, the sin is something f very far removed. It's very distant. It's gonna happen. No r no relationship remains as beautiful and loving and, you know, carefree as as the initial I do commitment. but once a year we go back to the I do 'cause we recognize and realize that that's really what the depth of the relationship is.
And I think there's another interesting element here which is connecting it to a another idea that Chazal say, and that's the idea of the the Talmud says that Rosh Hashan is the day that Yosef was was taken out of prison. So we know the story in the Torah how Yosef was sold as a slave to
to the Egyptians and he was taken into the house of the Potifar and then he was accused of doing inappropriate behavior with the Potifar with his wife and all that and he ends up in prison and then he ends up staying in prison longer than he was supposed to, whatever it is, but on the day of Rosh Hashanah he's told he could leave. He's free. That's when he goes to King Paro and he reveals the dreams, which is in itself an interesting idea. So I actually I was thinking about this and and I was thinking like what's the association here?
with Yosef being free from prison, And why is Rosh Hashanah associated with this freeing of going out of prison is because
that is very much the experience that one should be having, is that we get locked up in this very confined space of where we feel almost comfortable because we've been there for so long and we know who we are, we know our our our disposition, we know what we're our our tendencies, our proclivities,
Mendy Bistritzky (17:45)
limitations.
mendel zirkind (17:45)
our limitations, and we accept it. And we're like, okay, that's me, that's great.
I'll end up doing the same things again. I'll just repeat everything again. There's no room to hurt change. Or I don't I don't even want to think about change because it's too overwhelming. Because when we think about change, it means there's a hope. Okay, I can break free from this. But I don't want to give myself false hope. So we almost like accept, okay, this is just me, it's fine, I'll just be who I am. And the messaging on Rosh Hashanah is no, it's the day that Yosef is freed from prison. It's the day
That Yosef is
is being able to now take a position that is going to eventually change the hist history of the Jewish people. A very fundamental shift taking place. And that's the opportunity we all have. it's also associated, I think, with this idea that on Rosh Hashanah we do Tashlich. We go to a body of water with fish and we say prayers and we which is based on a verse in the Prophet of Michael which says, to throw into the water all one's sins which represents
certain ideas in itself but why body of water and some say the custom is fish what's the association here is that the body of water represents what's water? Water is shapeless, it's tasteless, it's a simple, pure thing.
And it gives space for anything. You put any you know the red dye in water, it'll turn red. It's open to anything, it allows for anything to develop, and it also is a solvent, it breaks apart everything. Water, and explained in chassidas and kabbalits associated with chma, is a world of reshaping by removing any shape, by removing any specific, you know, sense of self, or you know, that's the idea of entering in a mikvah into a body of water.
order. These ideas, and also we find in in the Torah about, you know, Isaac
wife is found at the well. Jacob Yaqob's wife is found at the well. Moshe Rabenu's wife is found at the well. This association of building a relationship and renewing a relationship and all of that is associated with this idea. So I think that's and why fish, fish is is associated also with this idea of the the limitlessness of
being completely covered by the water and not have to have an identity. Fish are things that don't have to have an identity. so I think this is all the same idea of where a person recognizes that what is the day of Rosh Hashanah, what's the day of Chuva, it's the opportunity to break free. It's the opportunity to say I'm not stuck and
I recently wrote up an article, I think I showed it to you about this idea about 'cause I was asking you the question, our discussion happened because I was bringing up the question that I was having a talk about this concept of if I do chuva but then I end up doing again what I did before is my chuva counted. And what I want what I was tr my argument is is that or my perspective is is that the power of chuva is not that I'm changing or that I need to be something else. It's not a prediction about my future. The power of chuv is knowing that I have the ability to
change.
That's real chuva.
Mendy Bistritzky (20:57)
Mm-hmm.
mendel zirkind (20:58)
It's the power of the free choice that is contained within me, the power to be free from prison, the power to allow myself to become something else, to be re- re to become part of the water again. That's the power
Mendy Bistritzky (21:09)
So the
mendel zirkind (21:10)
of chuv.
Mendy Bistritzky (21:11)
so the acknowledgement of that that I'm able to reach much greater and to and to go much deeper, that is the act of shuva. What's so fascinating,
mendel zirkind (21:22)
Right. It's it's it's
Mendy Bistritzky (21:24)
I love what you're saying, is that in the like the paradigm of Tashlik, of going to the water to throw your sins in the water to do tshuva, the sins bring you to the water.
mendel zirkind (21:34)
Right.
Mendy Bistritzky (21:34)
Meaning the sins that I've done, those are what's
brought me to this space where now
mendel zirkind (21:39)
Beautiful.
Mendy Bistritzky (21:40)
I can see wow there's so much more to me than I had realized and if not for the mistakes that I've made, I never would have gotten here.
mendel zirkind (21:48)
Beautiful. That that ties back to the idea that you were saying before about God giving us the sin just to us to wake up to the misalignment in the relationship idea. I think that's ties in beautifully.
Mendy Bistritzky (22:03)
So ultimately would you say that that when we talk about like truva in relation to our sins and in t in relation to changing ourselves, the objective is for the coming year to reflect on the my own the the person that I was that allowed me to make these mistakes and these bad choices and how do I become the person or another way of saying it is how do I tap into the truer version of myself that wouldn't bring me to make those choices?
mendel zirkind (22:29)
I think the mindset I'm going into with Rosh Hashanah and the Shiva element of Rosh Hashanah is recognizing that I have a power that I may not always be tapping into and that's this power to get out of prison. The power to not be limited to my
all the things we said before to my limitations or either self-cons created limitations or actual limitations.
And although we speak about this and in learning Hasidis this idea is quite prevalent a lot, but do we really like sit on it? Do we really meditate on it? You know, the sound of the shofar is all about this idea of the simple sound that pierces the boundaries, right? It's connection, the Minha Meitsar from the constraint I go a la merchav into the into the width of of complete, you know, infinity. And
do we do we really meditate on that and do we truly take on that that power? do we embrace that power? I think for me that's the meditation because whichever level we are in our relationship with Hakadish Baruch, with Hashem
Whichever level of a relationship, there's always more we could be doing because that's the nature of a relationship. There's always more and there's always better, and there's always more refinement and there's always more closeness. And sometimes again we get stuck in the prison and the cell. We get stuck in that, you know, and and
Mendy Bistritzky (24:07)
The like the self limiting beliefs.
mendel zirkind (24:09)
Yeah.
and it sort of struck me as I'm talking, like, I mentioned how Yosef was taken out of prison and for what did he come out of prison for? And really what led him to get out of prison was all about interpretation of dreams.
Mendy Bistritzky (24:22)
Mm.
mendel zirkind (24:23)
Right? And like, do we have a dream? D do
Mendy Bistritzky (24:27)
Mm.
mendel zirkind (24:27)
we do we dream beyond our confined space? You know.
Mendy Bistritzky (24:31)
Wow. I I I I
just wanna pause I absolutely love that. Wow.
mendel zirkind (24:35)
Yeah.
So I think like that's sort of like to me that's the messaging of Rosh Hashanah. That's that's the journey we're going on, you know. To to really get out of our our comfort zone and to get out of our confined space we have to dream.
But we have to also know that a dream has a tran has has a real life version to it. That that it could be it could be translated into reality. A lot of times the dream remains a dream and we're bothered by it because we say, Okay, so what's the translation? What's the interpretation? How does it p play out in reality? And that's Yosef. Yosef is the one who frees us from that and
All I mean Yosef's journey is all about that. I mean he's the one who has the dreams and his brothers hate him for it and he actually plays out the dreams. He brings his dreams to fruition. as we see in the story at the end of the book of Veratius of Genesis. So yeah,
I mean
Mendy Bistritzky (25:28)
It's interesting because
what I was gonna ask you was as you were talking about the meditation that you're having for this year, Rosh Hashanah, about we have the ability of getting out of our prison and of really living out life to the fullest, my question to you was gonna be, what are the action steps? Like the meditation is a beautiful meditation. What are the action steps? But w when you went on and said that, in Yosef going out of prison, he went out of prison to interpret he went out of prison because he interpreted dreams and to interpret dreams.
I think for me, that that's the answer is that when we reflect on who we are capable of being, aka who we truly are, the next question is how do I interpret that dream? How do I interpret that hope how do I interpret it and practicalize it into the the life that I can live? And I think ultimately I would say
The first question to ask oneself is what's the first step I can take to interpret that dream? But I guess to your point is first I have to have the dream.
mendel zirkind (26:25)
Yeah,
and I think that's what Rosh Hoshana's about. I don't know if Rosh Hashanah is about necessarily then implementing it in a program. Like you know, it's like
you go sometimes on a these you know, you go to these festivals and there's like a space, a
Mendy Bistritzky (26:40)
Spiritual trip, as a
mendel zirkind (26:41)
spiritual trip, thank you, right. And like sometimes it's just like, okay, let me tap into that space and then when I'm in that moment I'll eventually have something that I can always know where I'm trying to
where I'm trying to achieve where I'm trying to go. So having that dream is sort of that space that I need to be in, which is what Rajashana's about. How that implem how I implement that, that's going after Raj Hashanah and we have the ten days of Chuva, we have the process leading up to Yom Kippur and all that. And I would say that, you know a person who we think about as let's say highly ambitious people had it had a dream.
and their dream was vivid, it was real, was was not just something that they sort of saw as as a as what we call a pipe dream, right? it was real to them and they implemented it. And the implementation I think comes from the fact that one believes in the dream and one knows so if I have a vision,
Mendy Bistritzky (27:40)
Mm.
mendel zirkind (27:41)
let's say, of becoming a millionaire, or nowadays the millionaire doesn't really work.
you need to be the the billionaire. you know, I I think that first of all it's the deep longing for it, the deep real want for it
And then there is, well, what does it look like? what is the image I want? Right? I want to be living in a fancy
Mendy Bistritzky (28:05)
Mm-hmm.
mendel zirkind (28:06)
house. I want and and once I have see or sort of see the destination there and I see that eventual goal, that propels me into that and allows me to then move into that. And we find this again in Demedrish. Demedrish says that when God wanted to create the world
It says, who did he take counsel? Who where what Bimi Nimla, wh where did he make his decision? Bin Ishmasim sheltzadikim in the souls of the righteous. And the way it's explained is that he had a vision. He saw the Jewish person and the Jewish person Davening, putting on Tfillin, keeping Shabbos, keeping Kosha, and God said, that's what I want. And that drove the process forward. You know, you keep your eye on that vision.
So the what are the steps, the practical steps of what that is? Yeah, I think step one is having a real vision, not just this, you know, sort of like we you we mouth certain things and we say certain things and you know, we wanna be better, we wanna do the right thing, you know, someone who's struggling with addiction, like, what does it mean to be clean?
if you don't know what it means to be clean or what or I don't know if the word is know what it means to be clean, if you don't a vision of what of being clean, and all you constantly think is I just can't s continue doing whatever I'm doing, whatever the addiction is, right? Let's say it's, you know, smoking cigarettes, I I have to stop. That doesn't propel any step forward and it doesn't allow for you to see forward. You're constantly looking back. And therefore i
the
vision, the dream is very important. But I will say one point on that, and that is that in in terms of the steps to implement it, it's literally throwing yourself into the deep end of the pool.
Mendy Bistritzky (29:50)
Mm.
mendel zirkind (29:50)
there isn't a a gradual process here. You know, I like differentiating between
You know, certain things you have to have a gradual process and certain things you just jump right in. Relationships is not something you have a gradual process. You don't have a build-up. It's not like I gradually get ready to get married. Even if you obviously have to mature and we have to develop and we have to have a deeper understanding and whatever we meet the person, but like the moment of marriage is always a deep dive. And we'll never do it if we think we need to get ready for it. Because we're never ready for it.
Mendy Bistritzky (30:24)
Like to be perfectly ready.
mendel zirkind (30:25)
Yeah, it that's just not possible. So I think in in areas of relationship I think we need to jump in and we commit and we do. And we we take on things that are little more difficult for ourselves because we have a vision of what we want. If my vision is is that I'm gonna wake up every morning and spend twenty minutes with meditation or twenty minutes with my prayers with God and
create a focus in my day that's centered around God, I gotta do that. There's no steps to it. It's doing it. But the dream that I have, the vision that I have, is that of me actually doing it and desiring it and wanting it.
Mendy Bistritzky (31:08)
It's interesting. I I think based on what you're saying, which is so beautiful, I think in many ways the ultimate chuva, the ultimate quote unquote repentance we need to do is to evaluate the dreams that we have. And to ask ourselves, the dreams that I have going forward, are those the dreams that I could be having or that I and that I should be having? Or can I dream greater dreams or different dreams?
That are more aligned with my values and with my purpose and with my potential. So to just to frame that in terms of how to approach our tsuva, our reflection on how to change, I think is it's such a powerful, powerful thing. I I was in Shol in LA a few weeks ago, and someone came over to me and he says, you know how I know that the Sephari way of pronouncing the Hebrew is correct? I said, How? He said, Because it's a prayer we say in Rosh Hashanah, Hayom Haratolam.
Which means today the world is trembling, or according to some tre today the world is pregnant with possibility. He says, But in the Ashkenazi way of saying it is Hayam Harasolam. Haras could mean to destroy. Today today worlds are being destroyed. and it is
mendel zirkind (32:15)
That's really good.
Mendy Bistritzky (32:16)
yeah, it's a day not of you know destroying our world but of having a rebirth.
mendel zirkind (32:21)
Yes, exactly. That's actually quite interesting, right.
Mendy Bistritzky (32:23)
Yeah, it was.
mendel zirkind (32:24)
Is it Harat or Haras?
Mendy Bistritzky (32:27)
It was the best proof I've heard that we pronounce it wrong to date. But it's interesting also because you talk about jumping to the deep end. J just I don't know if it's a pushback or maybe like sometimes I feel differently, is that let's say there's a s certain chuva I need to do on on something specific. If I'm not spending enough time on my Torah learning or you know, I'm like I was saying before, I'm I'm too distractable, you know, in in my phone or in other areas.
In some ways it's my truva is like isn't not, you know, being distractable. My truva is getting a better bedtime. You know what mean? Like in some ways it's finding those like right, like the linchpins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I think both are
mendel zirkind (32:58)
Right. In the simple small things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mendy Bistritzky (33:03)
true. I think it's it's there's there's space for both and depending on which specific things we need to work on, I guess it'd be different, like action items for the to manifest that truva.
mendel zirkind (33:13)
mean
we have the the statement of one of the great chabad chasidim, Ramendal Futafah saying that a good a good day starts with a good night's sleep or something to that effect.
Mendy Bistritzky (33:25)
Hm, yes.
mendel zirkind (33:28)
or a good Kriarshram Shalamita, but like saying the Shema in bed, but that idea of
you know, do we take in do we also consider the things that need to happen in order for us. You know, I may have ambitions of waking up every morning, five o'clock in the morning, and learning for two hours and really getting myself in a f proper headspace to then go and and dive in and and, you know, do all those things. But like if I don't therefore like you said, go to bed at night in a good time, have a decent sleep, make sure that I don't eat foods that will
you know, complicate that.
Mendy Bistritzky (34:04)
Disturb yeah.
mendel zirkind (34:06)
Or just or like these are things that we that's also I think part of the problem a bit is that we sort of like we jump for like I need that. the dream is this, but like the pieces that need to come with it and the you know, a person wants to look good, right? So go to the gym and lose weight or gain weight or whatever, build up muscles and
and even if you go into the gym, like, that requires a serious commitment not just to going, but also to what you eat, how you sleep. There's so many other factors that go into it and sometimes yeah, we we don't look at those things and then it's like when it falls apart where like we think that that dream is impossible. When it's not that the dream was impossible, it's just that the small things that are actually very possible we just neglected and therefore never, you know
we never put in place our chances of success.
Mendy Bistritzky (34:56)
It's very interesting. I'll and we'll we'll have to kind of maybe discuss this further offline to see if this really lines up. But there's these two levels of chuva of repentance, lower chuva and higher chuva. And I'm wondering if they're these are the two levels. There's a low so to speak a lower level where I have to just find those like small things, you know, the going the early bedtime, the this or the that, to really manifest my dream, if we want to use that phrase. And then there's the truvaila, the higher chuva, which is
This like overarching meta reframing of of the dreams that I'm dreaming. So it's an interesting maybe way of understanding this idea of lower chuva and higher chuva.
mendel zirkind (35:32)
Right, right. That's a very interesting way of looking at it. The Chivatha and the Chiva Yulla. Yeah. And I think that in the Chivatata phrase it's like it requires a lot more discipline.
Mendy Bistritzky (35:43)
Yeah.
mendel zirkind (35:44)
and that's the way Hasidis understands Chuva Tata, the lower chuva, as it's really like more fear based kind of chuva, which is like it's discipline. it's being more more restrictive in some regard, but that's not that's not where you're trying to settle. You're trying to settle on the higher level, but you know you need to create a proper structure to get there. Yeah.
Mendy Bistritzky (36:03)
One
more thing on this and then I'll move to the next one more topic and then I'll let you go on get on with your day. I there's this idea. It all started with the the like the front doormat, which is basically, you know, the story of the person who, you know, their front doormat was worn out, so they bought a new doormat. And then like, but I have a new doormat, but my door is so worn out. So then they redo their door. And then they walk into their house and their their their front entranceway is all, you know, broken down. So they redo their front entranceway. And they're like, but kitchen is all and they end up renovating their whole house because they changed your doormat.
And that idea of that that lower level of chuva, the more nuanced chuva of just, you know, having the early bedtime or or finding the small like linchpin items that will help me get to manifesting the dreams that I'm having, just changing that. Sometimes it's just changing the front doormat. Some of the biggest
mendel zirkind (36:47)
Brilliant.
Mendy Bistritzky (36:47)
changes in my life for sure were those those small, those small changes.
mendel zirkind (36:51)
Yeah. this is something that I think is is when we're talking about the steps you're saying, like what's the steps necessary? However much the dream is is the focus, but like maybe the steps are okay, how do I how do I make sure that I change
you know, the front door mat, how do I change that? Like, make sure I do those things and if you just spend, you know, ten minutes and saying, Okay, I know I need, you know, this, this and this, which are small things to be put in place and I gradually, you know, do the checklist, then the dream does manifest in in in a real way.
Mendy Bistritzky (37:28)
Yeah. Okay, we have I think like eight to ten minutes left. So one more topic and then we can press pause till next time. so I shared with you this idea that I was thinking about the idea that when we blow the shifer, there's this long blast, the takiya, and then the shavaram tura, the broken blast, and then again the long blast at the end. And the idea that I was thinking about, I'm still trying to flesh out a little further, is that the long blast of the shafer expresses the longing of our soul.
And the broken blasts represent the brokenness of the Nisham of the soul as it recognizes how it wasn't aligned this year, it hasn't lived up to its potential. And what I came to realize is that the brokenness, our spiritual brokenness is only productive if it's couched in longing, if it's couched in this longing for for a closeness with Hashem, for this desire to really live out our our dreams, to borrow a phrase that we were just using.
And you shared such a beautiful idea on the idea of Chuvamitech Simcha, of returning to God out of joy. That really fits so well with this framing of the blowing of the scheifer that I'd love for you to share it here and then to just kind of flesh it out a little further.
mendel zirkind (38:40)
just
interesting. I just recently read a beautiful idea to what you were saying by the Chassam Sophar, Ramosha Sophar, in his Durusham, his his lectures, his discourses on
on Tishrei and he says that he divides it between the Shivvarim and the Trua. That he says that we have the two notes that are we're unsure about which is the correct note. Is it the Shvarim which is sort of the a bit longer breaking up of, you know, the three notes, or is it the nine consecutive short little outbursts? And he says that the Shvarim is as you were saying, is that brokenness. Is that feeling of mirirus and shivira, brokenness
And the teruah actually represents the idea of the the joy. It's actually
Mendy Bistritzky (39:31)
Hm.
mendel zirkind (39:32)
that's pleasure and that's why the Torah actually calls it Yob Tarua, the day of the terua. But
Mendy Bistritzky (39:38)
It's like the laughter, the
like the the when you laugh that bro those broken sounds.
mendel zirkind (39:41)
Yeah, that's
exactly what he says. So in a way it's like and he and you need both, right? You need the Shivarim and the Trua. And the idea of being
Mendy Bistritzky (39:49)
Wow.
mendel zirkind (39:49)
able to to sort of bring these two dynamics together in one single thing, which is couched as you said, by the takea on each side, is quite fascinating. And
the idea of of doing chuva shaw, you know, th the idea of simcha here is, you know, like a lot of times I think when we get caught up in the in what we call in Jewish the Tsubrochenkeit, the the brokenness is that it takes on a life of its own as you were saying and like it becomes sort of like, you know, the destination, the journey and the destination instead of it instead of it being almost looked at as a fuel, you know, to to get to a destination.
Mendy Bistritzky (40:28)
I heard a Jewish philosopher, I'm sure you heard this. He was trying to understand the nature of existence and he came to discover I Kvetch, therefore I am. That was kind of his discovery.
mendel zirkind (40:38)
funny.
Yeah. Oiv Oi Bishwer it's the Zinayid, you know? That that that
Mendy Bistritzky (40:43)
Yeah.
mendel zirkind (40:44)
Oivai that a Jewish person says. But right, exactly. Like so is it is it the journey or is it even not even out even it's not even the journey, it's the fuel of the journey, really. but really you could have a brokenness and joy as well because you could you could experience a sense of recognition of of
of yourself and recognition of the journey you need to take. And you do it with joy, but in that process you still feel a sense of the the I'm not there yet, right? That there's more to do. and even if I even if it's not so much even if I'm not even recognizing on the journey, the brokenness of saying that I want to be on a journey, right? It it doesn't have to come from that negative space. It comes from a
Mendy Bistritzky (41:26)
I think the way you s
you shared from the reb was that I'm the joy is that that I still care.
mendel zirkind (41:32)
Right, right, right. Okay, correct. You remind me of the point that I brought up, right, exactly. so the reb explains that
How do you go into this this process? He says the fact that there are people that would feel totally disconnected and it wouldn't bother them. They're numb to it. He describes the verse in the Torah that we had in this parshiva, Anochi Haster Aster, that I'll be I'll conceal myself with expression as a double concealment. So he says that there is a there's a situation where a person is in a state of concealment, but they recognize that, and then there's a situation where there's the concealment is a concealment where you don't even realize you're in a concealment. And he says the junior.
joy we have going through this process of the brokenness and the bitterness is the joy that we know we care. And yeah,
Mendy Bistritzky (42:15)
Such a powerful
mendel zirkind (42:17)
yes, you remind me of that point, right. yeah that's a a total brain opener. and really, I mean if you think about it, it's like that's what we want. Really that's what we want. We want to know we care.
It's we in Sho Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur and we're like, Do we care or not like why are we here? And and if you don't feel like you care, that itself could be something you're bothered by.
Mendy Bistritzky (42:40)
And that's something that I think that's what Hashem wants, no? Hashem's like, do you care about me?
mendel zirkind (42:45)
Right.
You know, there's in in in the Hasidic discourses on the month of Ell, you have the famous acronym of El Aniladol Dividodili. I am to my beloved, a verse in Shirashirum, the songs of songs. I am to my beloved, my love my beloved is to me. And there's an absolutely amazing, powerful, mind-boggling Mimer, Hasidic Discourse of the Labhavitcharabah in the year Toshan Khov.
which would translate into nineteen sixty-six. And over there he says at the end, something mind-boggling, he says that what is the Anila Dododili is that God comes and awakens us. God says, I want you into a relationship and when he makes you feel he then there's an analogy of the Balatanya Dalti Rebba about the king coming into the field and he smiles at everybody. He says that smile creates that pleasure, that joy. But he says something deeper, he quotes from the Zohar.
He says that this energy of God that's coming, the Yudgim Omidotarachamim, God's thirteen attributes of kindness, are not of mercy, are not just coming to help us, they're coming to help themselves. Their whole
Mendy Bistritzky (43:57)
Mm.
mendel zirkind (43:57)
existence and purpose
Is to stimulate and awaken us.
Mendy Bistritzky (44:02)
Mm.
mendel zirkind (44:02)
And when we get awakened, they have the greatest euphoria, the greatest joy. So when you're saying how this is what God really wants, exactly that point. He wants us to care. That's the only thing he wants. And that is the point. The Malachi Lah the Tsar says, the the Sopranal King is looking to come down into the field and even into the desert and find us there totally disconnected, totally unmotivated, disinterested, and getting
Yeah.
And getting us inspired. And I heard a beautiful story to illustrate this point. Someone just shared it the other day, it was my birthday, and we had a parring and a chassida gathering, and someone shared a beautiful story about a great Chasid Reb Nus Nissan Neminov, and he was known for his greatness in many areas, but he also was very poor. He didn't have much, especially after the war living in Paris. And he had a good friend, his name was Rabzalman Sarabronsky, who was one of the founders of the community here in Melbourne, Australia. And he once wrote
to him and he's describing how happy he is how he feels so satisfied although he has nothing and also his children weren't well there was there was a lot going on his wife there was there was struggles but he's happy he's very happy why because the students he was running the yeshiva in Bruno in France are Davenig and they're have a passion of Davening and what does that
Mendy Bistritzky (45:19)
Yeah.
mendel zirkind (45:19)
mean? That means like he saw his whole purpose what was the reason he was here was to inspire the students to Daven. And as long as that's happening nothing else matters. That's the
Mendy Bistritzky (45:29)
Yeah.
mendel zirkind (45:30)
ultimate they care.
If they care, I'm full.
Mendy Bistritzky (45:33)
I I think
there's no better place to leave this off than that point where I feel like Truva starts and is fueled by that recognition that I still care. And ultimately as long as I still care, Hashem forgives me and he's waiting. He's waiting for me to to just take the first step.
mendel zirkind (45:56)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Mendy Bistritzky (45:58)
To go deeper.
mendel zirkind (45:59)
That's right. And just to finish off with that point, is like there's the chuvva from our perspective, but the chuva from Hashem's perspective. Like in our perspective, our chuva is okay, I need to get back into the relationship, I need to do right, I need to do good, I need to f facilitate my dreams. And God is saying is just just show me that you care. You know? That's very yeah. That's very beautiful.
Mendy Bistritzky (46:21)
It's it's
it's almost like like the way you said it Hashem's chuvah as it were, like Hashem returning to us.
mendel zirkind (46:27)
Right. Rab Rabbi Herschel Yeshua Heschel Abraham Heschel
Mendy Bistritzky (46:36)
Yeah Abra Avra I mean yeah.
mendel zirkind (46:40)
writes he has his book titled Ma God in Search of Man. Right? That idea.
Mendy Bistritzky (46:46)
Yeah. Mamish.
mendel zirkind (46:48)
Beautiful.
Mendy Bistritzky (46:49)
Givaldic, Rabbi Zerkin if nothing else, it was so great, Schmoozing. Hopefully we'll inspire a few people, a few a few yids, but this was really, really special.
mendel zirkind (46:58)
Yes, this was definitely a very meaningful discussion and helps me prepare now for my Rushish Nana. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you
Mendy Bistritzky (47:05)
I I was about to say, hey, got me in the zone. Got me in the zone. Okay, thank you.