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The Faculty Chronicles (TFC) podcast, sponsored by the Touro Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning (CETL), is about building community, connection, and conversation. It will bring to life the stories behind the great works of Touro faculty, across disciplines in all our schools, focusing on classroom innovation in teaching and learning, science, business, medicine, education, wellness and more.
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Hello, everyone.
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Welcome to a
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new episode of The Faculty
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Chronicles sponsored
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by the Touro
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Center of Excellence
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in Teaching and Learning.
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I'm Elizabeth Rooney,
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co-host of this podcast
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from Victoria
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College of Pharmacy in New York.
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Today, we have Dr.
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John Ryder with us as the guest.
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Ryder is an associate professor
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with the School of Occupational Therapy
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at Total Nevada.
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He received his bachelor's
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in deaf
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studies and linguistics
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from Utah Valley University
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and his master's
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in occupational therapy from Tornado.
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Later, he received his Ph.D.
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in interdisciplinary health Sciences
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from the University of Nevada
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in Las Vegas.
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Dr. Dr.
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Ryder is a recipient of the 2023
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total presidential faculty Award
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for Excellence in Scholarship.
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Welcome to the podcast operator
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and congratulations
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on that awesome award.
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Thank you very much, Elisabeth.
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I'm excited to be here and hope
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something that we talk about benefits
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some of our listeners
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who are wanting to do more research.
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Thank you.
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So tell us about a journey at Toro.
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When did you start at all?
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What was it
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and how did it go and where are you now?
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Well, actually
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working as an occupational therapist
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and really loving clinical work
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after graduating from Troy University
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with my masters
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and I was taking field work students
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and enjoyed being able
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to mentor them and new therapists.
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And I was even teaching
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some continuing education courses
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and I found myself
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becoming more interested in research,
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which is kind of funny
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because I actually chose a masters
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over a clinical doctorate
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because I thought there's no way
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I'm ever going to
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be involved in research.
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But as I was working across
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that continuum of health care,
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I just kept finding myself
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coming up with clinical questions
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based on the clients,
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the populations,
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the diagnoses I was working with
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and going back to that evidence
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and I was doing what I was taught,
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I was being a consumer of evidence,
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but I was finding that
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there wasn't enough evidence
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for some of the things I was interested
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in, and there were some significant gaps
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on the rehabilitation side.
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So I kind of started to envision myself
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and think about, well,
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maybe I could be a part of that process
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to help answer those questions,
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maybe someday down the road.
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And for me,
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that's kind of where it all started
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as integrating
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my clinical practice and interests
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with the possibility of doing research.
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I knew that I wanted to teach someday.
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I had taught at the undergrad level
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and really enjoyed it,
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but as my research interest was growing,
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I started to kind of play around
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with the idea
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of going back to school,
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and that's
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when I decided to pursue a Ph.D..
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I was in my first semester
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and the program director
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at the University of Nevada
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called me and said,
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Can you come on campus?
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And pitch an idea on
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how we could make our anatomy class
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a little more functional,
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a little more relevant
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for occupational therapists,
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because it was taught
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by the College of Medicine
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and not by an occupational therapist.
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And sometimes that was hard
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for the students
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to connect the content
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to what they were going to do.
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So I made my pitch
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and then she said, Great,
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would you like to teach the class?
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And so I taught as an adjunct.
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And then after that semester,
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she reached out and said,
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Would you like to apply
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for a full time position?
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And I've been there
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since 2018, full time,
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and then I've kind of transitioned.
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I still teach anatomy.
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I also teach our mental health courses,
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but I transitioned
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from just clinical courses
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and now I teach are intro to Qualitative
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and Quantitative research,
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which I really enjoy
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because it's allowed me
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to share my passion
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and my research experience
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with our first year occupational
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therapy doctorate students.
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Wow.
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You're not just in the research
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and also in teaching
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because you pitched an idea
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and then they hired you as a faculty.
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That's awesome.
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Between thinking about,
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Well, maybe I should be a part
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of the research process,
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I would add to coming.
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And in the last two years,
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I understand that you have
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almost 30 publications
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that include
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professional publications and abstracts,
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and you teach full time
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and you have a clinical practice
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still going on.
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So how do you find time to do
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all this research?
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You know,
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I think that's one thing faculty
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always struggle with,
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especially if you have
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a clinical practice
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or administrative position.
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It's hard to find time to do research.
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So how do you find time to do
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this research
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and get all these publications out?
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Well, I appreciate that question.
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And the first thing I'll say is
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I didn't do it by myself,
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that's for sure.
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I've had a lot of great mentors,
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and I think research is a team effort
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and it starts with collaboration.
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We really need each other
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in the world of research
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and of course academia,
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because we all have different
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expertise, different
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experiences, backgrounds,
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ideas, even different skills.
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And I think research is more efficient
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when we share those and we work together.
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Because going from that idea
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or that research question
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all the way to publication
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for anyone that's done
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that knows it's
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a long and difficult process,
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as you alluded to.
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And we also know that across fields
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it doesn't really matter what discipline
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you're in.
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We have a high percentage of projects
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that get abandoned
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before they ever make it to publication,
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and sometimes there's
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a valid reason for that.
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But other times it's
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that time, it's that commitment,
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it's that lack of follow through
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because of
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the arduous process of publishing.
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So I've found that
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when I'm collaborating on a project,
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I'm far more likely
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to meet
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those deadlines, to maintain motivation,
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to finish a project
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and to get it actually published.
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And I'll be very transparent.
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I have to projects right now
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that I was doing on my own
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that are maybe 75% done
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sitting in a folder on my computer
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and I kind of just
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keep leaving them there.
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But I have five
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papers under review
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that I collaborated with people
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that I worked on a team.
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And so
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even though I know that collaboration
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is really the key for me,
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I still struggle
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when I'm not working with collaborators.
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And I for me, it's straightforward.
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If you have people counting on you,
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you tend to work smarter and harder.
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You have that accountability
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of your colleagues
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and you can also ask for help
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when you need it.
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So our workload changes.
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We have that ebb and flow in academia,
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a higher workload in one semester,
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a lower workload in another semester.
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And so when it's overwhelming,
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when you need to make some modifications
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to your responsibilities on the project,
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when you have a team,
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you're not alone, right?
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You can go to them
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and get that support that you need.
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And so
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I think anyone in kind of a research
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slump right now,
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one of the first things I'd suggest
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is to put yourself out there,
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which can be a little scary
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and find some collaborators.
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The other thing
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that has been really helpful for me
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is looking at the type of research I do.
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I'm at Toro University, Nevada.
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It's not an Rowan University.
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I'm not on a researcher tenure track
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and we don't have extensive resources.
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We do have some wonderful facilities,
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but the truth is there's limitations
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in what I can do
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and what other faculty can do
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at their respective institutions.
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But I'm also limited by my position,
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right? I have responsibilities.
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I have courses to teach.
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And so
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I think it's important to be pragmatic
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with your research agenda.
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I would love to do
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a randomized controlled trial
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right at some point in my career,
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but it's not feasible
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where I am right now,
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and I'm still an early career researcher.
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I have those ideas in mind
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and I'm working towards them.
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But instead I consider
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what can I do with my available time,
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with my available resources
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that are
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still beneficial to the community,
00:07:35:17 - 00:07:38:05
that's relevant to my expertise
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and something that still gets me excited.
00:07:40:11 - 00:07:41:16
And so
00:07:41:16 - 00:07:43:10
we were talking about survey studies
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before this podcast started, right?
00:07:45:05 - 00:07:46:10
Survey studies require
00:07:46:10 - 00:07:47:15
very little resources
00:07:47:15 - 00:07:48:21
and most of us have access
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to the software needed.
00:07:50:06 - 00:07:52:02
Qualitative studies often require
00:07:52:02 - 00:07:53:21
smaller sample sizes,
00:07:53:21 - 00:07:55:18
cross-sectional designs. Right.
00:07:55:18 - 00:07:56:19
Where do we already have
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access to patients,
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participants, populations?
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A great reason to collaborate
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with community partners and clinicians.
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How can we capitalize on data
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that we've already collected?
00:08:07:14 - 00:08:09:12
We recently did a study on student
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outcomes from our program, data
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we already collected
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and found that our standardized
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patient experiences were predictive
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of fieldwork performance.
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It's been very well-received.
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It cost us no money to do that study.
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Some faculty might want to think
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about writing expert opinion
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or innovative
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teaching articles
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looking into single subject designs, or
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my big interest right now
00:08:31:19 - 00:08:33:10
is publicly available data, right?
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Large data sets.
00:08:35:08 - 00:08:36:21
I'm doing a couple of projects there
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that are really exciting for me,
00:08:39:00 - 00:08:39:17
but in the end
00:08:39:17 - 00:08:41:00
I would suggest, you know,
00:08:41:00 - 00:08:42:00
finding opportunities
00:08:42:00 - 00:08:43:20
that are feasible, timely,
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because if you have a five year project,
00:08:45:20 - 00:08:47:18
it's a little harder to stay motivated.
00:08:47:18 - 00:08:49:19
So sometimes a couple of smaller projects
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keep us excited about what we're doing,
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projects that are low cost projects
00:08:54:14 - 00:08:55:22
that we can collaborate
00:08:55:22 - 00:08:57:03
with, other faculty,
00:08:57:03 - 00:08:58:13
with clinicians, with students.
00:08:58:13 - 00:09:00:17
The reason why we got into teaching,
00:09:00:17 - 00:09:01:16
and I do recognize
00:09:01:16 - 00:09:03:13
the last thing I'll say is that
00:09:03:13 - 00:09:04:11
these types of studies
00:09:04:11 - 00:09:07:03
may not be everybody's cup of tea,
00:09:07:03 - 00:09:08:12
but you could consider
00:09:08:12 - 00:09:09:21
as a stepping stone
00:09:09:21 - 00:09:10:15
right, gathering
00:09:10:15 - 00:09:12:09
some preliminary research
00:09:12:09 - 00:09:15:04
so that then it could lead to a larger
00:09:15:04 - 00:09:16:08
grant funded study
00:09:16:08 - 00:09:17:23
or just opportunities for you
00:09:17:23 - 00:09:19:22
to gain some experience.
00:09:19:22 - 00:09:22:11
And, you know, doing these analysis
00:09:22:11 - 00:09:24:05
or testing out these methodologies
00:09:24:05 - 00:09:26:11
or refining your writing skills
00:09:26:11 - 00:09:29:05
or just learning from other researchers.
00:09:29:05 - 00:09:31:07
Like that is amazing.
00:09:31:07 - 00:09:33:03
I really like the way you horn on
00:09:33:03 - 00:09:33:18
two points.
00:09:33:18 - 00:09:35:11
One is collaboration,
00:09:35:11 - 00:09:36:23
reaching out to other people,
00:09:36:23 - 00:09:37:14
and the second
00:09:37:14 - 00:09:38:22
is that finding studies
00:09:38:22 - 00:09:40:14
that you can actually get done
00:09:40:14 - 00:09:41:02
right know.
00:09:42:00 - 00:09:43:01
now when it comes to
00:09:43:01 - 00:09:44:14
that going on studies,
00:09:44:14 - 00:09:45:20
for example, database
00:09:45:20 - 00:09:48:00
studies or using surveys,
00:09:48:00 - 00:09:49:11
are there any resources
00:09:49:11 - 00:09:50:06
that they give someone
00:09:50:06 - 00:09:52:05
who's not exactly sure
00:09:52:05 - 00:09:53:15
how to conduct a survey research?
00:09:53:15 - 00:09:53:19
You know,
00:09:53:19 - 00:09:54:02
because, you
00:09:54:02 - 00:09:56:12
know, surveys are not an opinion thing.
00:09:56:12 - 00:09:57:18
You still need a validated
00:09:57:18 - 00:10:00:09
instrument and later instrument,
00:10:00:09 - 00:10:02:01
or if you're using the databases,
00:10:02:01 - 00:10:03:09
they still need to be cleaned
00:10:03:09 - 00:10:04:21
up, you know, those kind of things.
00:10:04:21 - 00:10:05:20
So are there
00:10:05:20 - 00:10:07:12
any resources that you know,
00:10:07:12 - 00:10:10:16
that our audience can look into to
00:10:10:16 - 00:10:12:00
to get a little more idea
00:10:12:00 - 00:10:13:22
on how to do any of this research
00:10:13:22 - 00:10:15:21
on the scholarship of teaching
00:10:15:21 - 00:10:16:06
and any
00:10:16:06 - 00:10:18:00
anything that you have seen
00:10:18:00 - 00:10:20:08
in the past that you have used?
00:10:20:08 - 00:10:20:19
Yeah,
00:10:20:19 - 00:10:21:19
I normally start
00:10:21:19 - 00:10:23:13
with looking at some sister studies
00:10:23:13 - 00:10:24:06
and either
00:10:24:06 - 00:10:24:24
the topic area
00:10:24:24 - 00:10:27:12
that I'm interested in or a sister study
00:10:27:12 - 00:10:29:09
that would be the same methodology.
00:10:29:09 - 00:10:31:23
So I start to kind of conceptualize
00:10:31:23 - 00:10:33:04
how someone else has done it
00:10:33:04 - 00:10:34:12
or how I might do it
00:10:34:12 - 00:10:37:00
with my research idea.
00:10:37:02 - 00:10:38:10
That's kind of my first step,
00:10:38:10 - 00:10:39:05
and I think that's really good
00:10:39:05 - 00:10:40:04
for new researchers.
00:10:40:04 - 00:10:41:13
Or when you're branching out
00:10:41:13 - 00:10:44:01
to a type of research you haven't done.
00:10:44:01 - 00:10:46:16
I've also found that going back
00:10:46:16 - 00:10:47:18
to that collaboration,
00:10:47:18 - 00:10:48:16
most universities
00:10:48:16 - 00:10:50:09
have a research department.
00:10:50:09 - 00:10:51:16
We've always had someone
00:10:51:16 - 00:10:55:02
who had that background in bio stats
00:10:55:02 - 00:10:56:11
or someone whose background
00:10:56:11 - 00:10:58:11
is in the survey research
00:10:58:11 - 00:11:00:07
and maybe from a different college.
00:11:00:07 - 00:11:00:14
Right.
00:11:00:14 - 00:11:01:05
And that's something
00:11:01:05 - 00:11:02:14
that's exciting, right?
00:11:02:14 - 00:11:03:12
Consider the
00:11:03:12 - 00:11:03:18
you know,
00:11:03:18 - 00:11:05:03
if you have a school of education
00:11:05:03 - 00:11:07:08
or a college of education,
00:11:07:08 - 00:11:08:08
many of those faculty
00:11:08:08 - 00:11:09:19
are very experienced
00:11:09:19 - 00:11:11:19
when it comes to survey research
00:11:11:19 - 00:11:13:14
and validating surveys.
00:11:13:14 - 00:11:15:00
And so I've, of course,
00:11:15:00 - 00:11:16:16
taken continuing education.
00:11:16:16 - 00:11:18:06
I don't think we ever stop learning
00:11:18:06 - 00:11:20:17
when it comes to being in academia,
00:11:20:17 - 00:11:22:11
but I found those ways
00:11:22:11 - 00:11:23:11
to kind of branch out
00:11:23:11 - 00:11:23:20
and learn
00:11:23:20 - 00:11:25:17
about a new type of research
00:11:25:17 - 00:11:28:02
or test the waters a little bit.
00:11:28:02 - 00:11:29:09
And also, again,
00:11:29:09 - 00:11:30:12
it comes to collaboration.
00:11:30:12 - 00:11:32:00
If I have a great idea
00:11:32:00 - 00:11:35:00
already, who can I invite to my team
00:11:35:00 - 00:11:37:10
that brings some of those skills.
00:11:37:10 - 00:11:39:05
But I have found that once
00:11:39:05 - 00:11:41:04
you have a basic understanding,
00:11:41:04 - 00:11:42:15
if you're working with a team
00:11:42:15 - 00:11:44:04
or if you have a consultant,
00:11:44:04 - 00:11:45:10
someone that you can go to
00:11:45:10 - 00:11:47:10
to ask some of those questions,
00:11:47:10 - 00:11:48:12
a lot of these projects
00:11:48:12 - 00:11:49:14
are really feasible.
00:11:49:14 - 00:11:51:06
I'm sure everyone's
00:11:51:06 - 00:11:52:13
while you're going to make some mistakes
00:11:52:13 - 00:11:53:02
and you're going to learn
00:11:53:02 - 00:11:54:11
from those mistakes.
00:11:54:11 - 00:11:55:16
But I think that's part of
00:11:55:16 - 00:11:58:06
the research process to.
00:11:58:08 - 00:11:59:16
So very true.
00:11:59:16 - 00:12:00:10
You bring back
00:12:00:10 - 00:12:01:21
that idea of collaboration.
00:12:01:21 - 00:12:02:23
You should collaborate,
00:12:02:23 - 00:12:04:03
you should collaborate,
00:12:04:03 - 00:12:04:20
but sometimes
00:12:04:20 - 00:12:07:02
it can be overwhelming for a faculty
00:12:07:02 - 00:12:08:04
to reach out to someone
00:12:08:04 - 00:12:09:00
for collaboration,
00:12:09:00 - 00:12:09:22
especially if they're
00:12:09:22 - 00:12:11:01
not in your department
00:12:11:01 - 00:12:11:22
or in your college.
00:12:11:22 - 00:12:14:00
Reach out to someone else and say,
00:12:14:00 - 00:12:15:10
Hey, I want to do this study.
00:12:15:10 - 00:12:17:07
Would you like to collaborate with me?
00:12:17:07 - 00:12:18:05
Can be a tough thing
00:12:18:05 - 00:12:20:17
to do sometimes for faculty. So.
00:12:20:17 - 00:12:23:06
So why should anyone collaborate?
00:12:23:06 - 00:12:23:10
You know?
00:12:23:10 - 00:12:25:02
What are some of the benefits
00:12:25:02 - 00:12:27:08
of collaborating?
00:12:27:08 - 00:12:29:01
I think that's a good question,
00:12:29:01 - 00:12:31:02
and I'm still an early career researcher,
00:12:31:02 - 00:12:33:05
so it may be for early career
00:12:33:05 - 00:12:34:05
researchers easier
00:12:34:05 - 00:12:35:22
because you can put yourself out there
00:12:35:22 - 00:12:37:10
and say, I need that help.
00:12:37:10 - 00:12:39:12
It may be more scary. I don't know.
00:12:39:12 - 00:12:40:06
It may be harder
00:12:40:06 - 00:12:41:21
if you're an experienced researcher
00:12:41:21 - 00:12:42:19
to reach out to people
00:12:42:19 - 00:12:43:22
or you may feel, Hey,
00:12:43:22 - 00:12:45:09
people want to work with me.
00:12:45:09 - 00:12:46:12
I think it might be different
00:12:46:12 - 00:12:49:13
for everyone, but be for me.
00:12:49:13 - 00:12:50:12
It comes down to that
00:12:50:12 - 00:12:51:19
No one really knows everything
00:12:51:19 - 00:12:53:10
and we need each other, right?
00:12:53:10 - 00:12:55:05
We need different perspectives.
00:12:55:05 - 00:12:57:09
So even if we take away those
00:12:57:09 - 00:12:58:13
specific skills
00:12:58:13 - 00:12:59:07
and maybe
00:12:59:07 - 00:13:01:03
analysis or methodology
00:13:01:03 - 00:13:02:16
or a certain intervention,
00:13:02:16 - 00:13:03:09
if we just think
00:13:03:09 - 00:13:04:14
about the perspectives, right,
00:13:04:14 - 00:13:05:17
I get stuck on my own
00:13:05:17 - 00:13:07:21
perspective of my own experience,
00:13:07:21 - 00:13:08:22
my own background.
00:13:08:22 - 00:13:09:22
I have biases.
00:13:09:22 - 00:13:12:04
Some I'm aware of, some I'm not aware of.
00:13:12:04 - 00:13:12:09
Right.
00:13:12:09 - 00:13:13:11
And those can kind of creep
00:13:13:11 - 00:13:16:01
into my research ideas and my projects.
00:13:16:01 - 00:13:19:18
And so having a team, a diverse team,
00:13:19:20 - 00:13:21:00
really helps to mitigate
00:13:21:00 - 00:13:22:02
some of those biases,
00:13:22:02 - 00:13:23:21
see any gaps in our logic
00:13:23:21 - 00:13:25:23
or in our our research design.
00:13:25:23 - 00:13:28:02
But we also need to be challenged, right?
00:13:28:02 - 00:13:29:21
And working with other people challenges
00:13:29:21 - 00:13:31:17
us and keeps us on our toes.
00:13:31:17 - 00:13:33:01
So you don't have to be
00:13:33:01 - 00:13:34:13
this famous research
00:13:34:13 - 00:13:37:18
or in the top 1% of your field
00:13:37:20 - 00:13:39:24
to come up with a great research question
00:13:39:24 - 00:13:42:02
to finish a project.
00:13:42:02 - 00:13:42:13
In fact,
00:13:42:13 - 00:13:44:15
I'm constantly amazed by our students
00:13:44:15 - 00:13:45:22
and some of the new practitioners
00:13:45:22 - 00:13:48:21
that I talk with at various events,
00:13:48:21 - 00:13:51:21
and they make outstanding collaborators
00:13:51:23 - 00:13:53:10
even with very little
00:13:53:10 - 00:13:56:11
research experience. And so
00:13:56:13 - 00:13:57:24
coming back to that idea, I
00:13:57:24 - 00:13:59:01
also want to point out
00:13:59:01 - 00:14:00:01
that we can collaborate
00:14:00:01 - 00:14:02:16
with alumni and clinicians in our field
00:14:02:16 - 00:14:03:21
or maybe professionals,
00:14:03:21 - 00:14:04:17
if it's not a health care
00:14:04:17 - 00:14:06:18
field like the professionals out there,
00:14:06:18 - 00:14:08:05
because there are some amazing
00:14:08:05 - 00:14:09:13
clinicians and professionals
00:14:09:13 - 00:14:10:17
with great ideas
00:14:10:17 - 00:14:13:03
and access to unique populations,
00:14:13:03 - 00:14:14:19
but they may not have that research
00:14:14:19 - 00:14:16:03
background, the resources,
00:14:16:03 - 00:14:17:19
or sometimes just the confidence
00:14:17:19 - 00:14:19:07
to take on a project.
00:14:19:07 - 00:14:20:14
And so you have to remember that
00:14:20:14 - 00:14:21:08
these are mutually
00:14:21:08 - 00:14:23:01
beneficial relationships.
00:14:23:01 - 00:14:24:08
We're not just reaching out
00:14:24:08 - 00:14:25:11
and begging someone
00:14:25:11 - 00:14:27:06
to do something for us.
00:14:27:06 - 00:14:28:03
We're asking them
00:14:28:03 - 00:14:31:03
to be a part of a project
00:14:31:04 - 00:14:33:11
and there's a benefit on both ends.
00:14:33:11 - 00:14:34:14
And so by collaborating
00:14:34:14 - 00:14:37:14
with faculty, clinicians, students,
00:14:37:14 - 00:14:39:00
especially in the clinicians
00:14:39:00 - 00:14:41:11
or professionals, we expand our network.
00:14:41:11 - 00:14:43:05
We get non researchers
00:14:43:05 - 00:14:44:19
excited about research,
00:14:44:19 - 00:14:45:15
about the process,
00:14:45:15 - 00:14:47:15
and I think we open more doors
00:14:47:15 - 00:14:48:03
for future
00:14:48:03 - 00:14:49:03
projects
00:14:49:03 - 00:14:50:10
and opportunities
00:14:50:10 - 00:14:52:07
to solve current problems.
00:14:52:07 - 00:14:53:21
And whatever our discipline is
00:14:53:21 - 00:14:55:02
that may not be apparent
00:14:55:02 - 00:14:57:03
from inside academia, right?
00:14:57:03 - 00:14:58:16
My my experience has been nothing
00:14:58:16 - 00:14:59:22
but positive and rewarding
00:14:59:22 - 00:15:02:03
when collaborating with clinicians.
00:15:02:03 - 00:15:04:05
And maybe two other real quick reasons
00:15:04:05 - 00:15:06:02
that I think we should collaborate
00:15:06:02 - 00:15:07:00
is that accountability,
00:15:07:00 - 00:15:08:12
which I mentioned,
00:15:08:12 - 00:15:09:18
it brings more accountability,
00:15:09:18 - 00:15:11:11
which is often necessary
00:15:11:11 - 00:15:13:02
for projects that ebb and flow,
00:15:13:02 - 00:15:14:22
like research.
00:15:14:24 - 00:15:16:02
And we have our
00:15:16:02 - 00:15:16:20
other personal
00:15:16:20 - 00:15:18:03
and professional responsibilities
00:15:18:03 - 00:15:19:24
to add into this mix.
00:15:19:24 - 00:15:21:10
It may seem a little cheesy,
00:15:21:10 - 00:15:22:14
but I just think
00:15:22:14 - 00:15:23:07
collaborating
00:15:23:07 - 00:15:26:07
as part of the fun of doing research,
00:15:26:08 - 00:15:28:01
working with other individuals
00:15:28:01 - 00:15:29:20
who get just excited, as you do
00:15:29:20 - 00:15:31:01
about the research project
00:15:31:01 - 00:15:32:20
or the topics, that's exciting,
00:15:32:20 - 00:15:34:05
that's contagious.
00:15:34:05 - 00:15:36:16
So we need that camaraderie
00:15:36:16 - 00:15:39:00
when a project isn't going as planned
00:15:39:00 - 00:15:40:20
and there are some hiccups.
00:15:40:20 - 00:15:42:06
There's been times where I was like,
00:15:42:06 - 00:15:42:16
I don't know,
00:15:42:16 - 00:15:44:08
maybe we should just scrap this project.
00:15:44:08 - 00:15:46:09
It's not going the way that we thought.
00:15:46:09 - 00:15:48:16
It's taking away more time and energy,
00:15:48:16 - 00:15:49:17
and then a collaborator
00:15:49:17 - 00:15:51:12
will remind me why I started it
00:15:51:12 - 00:15:53:16
and have a great idea to pivot,
00:15:53:16 - 00:15:55:12
kind of bring back that spark for me.
00:15:55:12 - 00:15:57:04
So collaborating
00:15:57:04 - 00:15:58:11
just allows us
00:15:58:11 - 00:15:59:24
to enjoy the overall process
00:15:59:24 - 00:16:01:23
and I think as a snowball effect,
00:16:01:23 - 00:16:04:01
right, You collaborate with someone
00:16:04:01 - 00:16:05:13
and then there's more opportunities
00:16:05:13 - 00:16:07:05
to collaborate with them in the future.
00:16:07:05 - 00:16:08:13
They tell their colleague,
00:16:08:13 - 00:16:10:02
they tell this clinician,
00:16:10:02 - 00:16:11:22
and I've really only been doing this
00:16:11:22 - 00:16:12:15
a few years,
00:16:12:15 - 00:16:14:07
but I now have collaborators
00:16:14:07 - 00:16:15:11
internationally,
00:16:15:11 - 00:16:16:14
some that reach out to me
00:16:16:14 - 00:16:17:24
and some that I reach out to,
00:16:17:24 - 00:16:18:20
and that's really have
00:16:18:20 - 00:16:21:09
that snowball effect.
00:16:21:11 - 00:16:22:20
So awesome.
00:16:22:20 - 00:16:23:19
There's a really great bit
00:16:23:19 - 00:16:26:03
explain why we should be collaborating,
00:16:26:03 - 00:16:27:17
but at the same time
00:16:27:17 - 00:16:29:05
now it is a bunch of people
00:16:29:05 - 00:16:31:02
with different priorities,
00:16:31:02 - 00:16:31:22
different skill
00:16:31:22 - 00:16:32:21
sets from
00:16:32:21 - 00:16:34:11
different disciplines
00:16:34:11 - 00:16:37:20
coming in, working together and success.
00:16:37:20 - 00:16:38:09
And often
00:16:38:09 - 00:16:39:15
you need to have a paper
00:16:39:15 - 00:16:40:23
or you need to have a grand
00:16:40:23 - 00:16:42:14
or something to show, right?
00:16:42:14 - 00:16:44:16
So what are some of the strategies
00:16:44:16 - 00:16:46:20
that you would suggest
00:16:46:20 - 00:16:48:08
for a team to succeed
00:16:48:08 - 00:16:50:21
when they're collaborating?
00:16:50:21 - 00:16:53:16
I think the most important thing
00:16:53:16 - 00:16:55:09
is to ensure that team
00:16:55:09 - 00:16:57:13
success is to set some expectations
00:16:57:13 - 00:16:59:04
or guidelines for the project
00:16:59:04 - 00:17:00:21
for everyone on the team.
00:17:00:21 - 00:17:03:08
And so deadlines keep us accountable.
00:17:03:08 - 00:17:04:10
And I know I've used that word
00:17:04:10 - 00:17:06:00
a lot already, but
00:17:06:00 - 00:17:06:20
it's important
00:17:06:20 - 00:17:07:23
and we need to be realistic
00:17:07:23 - 00:17:08:19
with deadlines.
00:17:08:19 - 00:17:11:16
So we have heavier teaching semesters
00:17:11:16 - 00:17:12:17
and we might need to consider
00:17:12:17 - 00:17:14:18
how much time can we devote
00:17:14:18 - 00:17:15:16
to this project
00:17:15:16 - 00:17:16:14
and recognize
00:17:16:14 - 00:17:19:05
how much time is required for each step.
00:17:19:05 - 00:17:20:16
Is the IRB process.
00:17:20:16 - 00:17:21:24
Is this going to be an exempt study
00:17:21:24 - 00:17:22:17
or is this going to be
00:17:22:17 - 00:17:24:06
a full board review?
00:17:24:06 - 00:17:25:22
Recruitment always takes longer
00:17:25:22 - 00:17:28:15
than we want or think it's going to,
00:17:28:15 - 00:17:29:14
but I find, you know,
00:17:29:14 - 00:17:30:18
the data's analyzed.
00:17:30:18 - 00:17:32:14
We've written the results.
00:17:32:14 - 00:17:34:00
The discussion goes really quick
00:17:34:00 - 00:17:34:24
because we're all excited
00:17:34:24 - 00:17:36:10
about working together.
00:17:36:10 - 00:17:38:01
But then maybe the final editing
00:17:38:01 - 00:17:39:00
and the formatting for
00:17:39:00 - 00:17:39:24
the journal
00:17:39:24 - 00:17:41:16
is a little more tedious than we want
00:17:41:16 - 00:17:42:20
and takes a lot of time.
00:17:42:20 - 00:17:44:13
So setting deadlines,
00:17:44:13 - 00:17:45:17
realistic deadlines
00:17:45:17 - 00:17:47:14
can help keep us on track.
00:17:47:14 - 00:17:49:02
And then we need to consider
00:17:49:02 - 00:17:51:02
how do we delegate this workload?
00:17:51:02 - 00:17:52:17
Because that's one of the benefits.
00:17:52:17 - 00:17:55:03
I don't have to do everything myself,
00:17:55:03 - 00:17:56:24
and that's what increases our efficiency.
00:17:56:24 - 00:17:58:16
So we consider things
00:17:58:16 - 00:18:00:20
like background experience, training.
00:18:00:20 - 00:18:01:20
What does each author
00:18:01:20 - 00:18:04:01
bring to the project?
00:18:04:01 - 00:18:06:03
I have found it very helpful to start
00:18:06:03 - 00:18:07:16
with everyone on the same page
00:18:07:16 - 00:18:09:00
as much as possible
00:18:09:00 - 00:18:11:17
and kind of develop the project together,
00:18:11:17 - 00:18:13:09
make some of those crucial decisions
00:18:13:09 - 00:18:14:10
as a team.
00:18:14:10 - 00:18:16:20
And I even try to outline the paper
00:18:16:20 - 00:18:18:18
before we kind of break off
00:18:18:18 - 00:18:20:07
and work on individual parts.
00:18:20:07 - 00:18:21:14
And in my experience,
00:18:21:14 - 00:18:23:02
this has led to a more
00:18:23:02 - 00:18:24:19
cohesive research process
00:18:24:19 - 00:18:26:17
and a better final paper,
00:18:26:17 - 00:18:28:06
but it also gives everyone
00:18:28:06 - 00:18:30:00
a chance to have some ownership
00:18:30:00 - 00:18:32:02
over that project. Right?
00:18:32:02 - 00:18:33:22
We all agreed to these things
00:18:33:22 - 00:18:34:11
that we're doing.
00:18:34:11 - 00:18:36:08
We all agreed on this direction.
00:18:36:08 - 00:18:37:19
So no one feels like,
00:18:37:19 - 00:18:38:03
you know,
00:18:38:03 - 00:18:39:02
Doctor So-and-so
00:18:39:02 - 00:18:40:14
is telling them what to do
00:18:40:14 - 00:18:43:09
and they're just following orders.
00:18:43:11 - 00:18:44:10
With that said, though,
00:18:44:10 - 00:18:45:06
it's also important
00:18:45:06 - 00:18:46:03
to establish
00:18:46:03 - 00:18:47:03
authorship early
00:18:47:03 - 00:18:48:14
on to clarify those roles
00:18:48:14 - 00:18:50:01
and responsibilities
00:18:50:01 - 00:18:51:09
to clarify expectations
00:18:51:09 - 00:18:53:19
so we can delegate appropriately.
00:18:53:19 - 00:18:55:00
And I think
00:18:55:00 - 00:18:55:15
for some reason
00:18:55:15 - 00:18:56:16
the authorship is a little scary
00:18:56:16 - 00:18:58:18
for people to have that conversation.
00:18:58:18 - 00:19:00:13
But we know that the earlier
00:19:00:13 - 00:19:01:23
we have it, the better.
00:19:01:23 - 00:19:03:11
And to be listed as an author,
00:19:03:11 - 00:19:06:06
you have to have a substantial direct
00:19:06:06 - 00:19:08:10
or kind of intellectual contribution.
00:19:08:10 - 00:19:10:05
And a lot of journals require a statement
00:19:10:05 - 00:19:12:11
now saying who did what?
00:19:12:11 - 00:19:13:08
The first author
00:19:13:08 - 00:19:15:04
is typically the corresponding author,
00:19:15:04 - 00:19:16:07
but not always,
00:19:16:07 - 00:19:17:19
but the first author
00:19:17:19 - 00:19:20:19
has the most responsibility on a team.
00:19:21:00 - 00:19:22:09
And so especially when it comes
00:19:22:09 - 00:19:23:20
to getting that paper
00:19:23:20 - 00:19:24:24
into its final form
00:19:24:24 - 00:19:26:19
submitted and revised.
00:19:26:19 - 00:19:28:01
So I think that's important
00:19:28:01 - 00:19:29:19
to consider when you're looking at
00:19:29:19 - 00:19:31:14
who has the availability,
00:19:31:14 - 00:19:34:05
the time to commit to the project.
00:19:34:05 - 00:19:35:19
I really believe
00:19:35:19 - 00:19:37:04
that the first author is critical
00:19:37:04 - 00:19:38:06
when it comes to ensuring
00:19:38:06 - 00:19:39:11
that you finish this project
00:19:39:11 - 00:19:40:16
and get it published.
00:19:40:16 - 00:19:41:22
I've had a lot of experiences,
00:19:41:22 - 00:19:42:15
some good,
00:19:42:15 - 00:19:43:17
some not so good
00:19:43:17 - 00:19:45:22
working on teams, most good,
00:19:45:22 - 00:19:47:07
but I feel like
00:19:47:07 - 00:19:48:09
most of the time
00:19:48:09 - 00:19:49:21
it's dependent on the follow through
00:19:49:21 - 00:19:50:19
and the leadership of that
00:19:50:19 - 00:19:51:23
first author
00:19:51:23 - 00:19:54:15
to ensure that project gets finished.
00:19:54:15 - 00:19:55:24
But to all those listeners,
00:19:55:24 - 00:19:56:16
I'd really
00:19:56:16 - 00:19:59:13
encourage that you have an experience
00:19:59:13 - 00:20:00:09
being the primary
00:20:00:09 - 00:20:01:08
or the first author
00:20:01:08 - 00:20:04:08
and secondary or contributing author
00:20:04:08 - 00:20:05:20
or a supervising author.
00:20:05:20 - 00:20:07:10
If you're working with students
00:20:07:10 - 00:20:08:13
on different papers
00:20:08:13 - 00:20:11:13
because experiencing different authorship
00:20:11:13 - 00:20:14:02
allows for skill development,
00:20:14:02 - 00:20:15:04
different types of time
00:20:15:04 - 00:20:17:09
commitment, different experiences.
00:20:17:09 - 00:20:18:00
I'm careful
00:20:18:00 - 00:20:18:21
not to take on
00:20:18:21 - 00:20:19:18
too many projects
00:20:19:18 - 00:20:19:24
where I'm
00:20:19:24 - 00:20:21:16
the primary author at one time
00:20:21:16 - 00:20:23:05
because of that commitment,
00:20:23:05 - 00:20:24:12
but I'm a little more open
00:20:24:12 - 00:20:26:10
to joining a couple projects
00:20:26:10 - 00:20:27:24
as a contributing author
00:20:27:24 - 00:20:29:22
when I know that that commitment
00:20:29:22 - 00:20:31:08
is a little less.
00:20:31:08 - 00:20:31:23
But serving
00:20:31:23 - 00:20:32:19
different roles
00:20:32:19 - 00:20:34:00
is another way to allow you
00:20:34:00 - 00:20:35:19
to be on multiple projects,
00:20:35:19 - 00:20:36:23
be a little more productive.
00:20:36:23 - 00:20:37:14
And that's one way
00:20:37:14 - 00:20:38:21
that I've found
00:20:38:21 - 00:20:39:20
that I can
00:20:39:20 - 00:20:41:16
be more productive in my position.
00:20:41:16 - 00:20:43:10
And I also learn a little bit each time
00:20:43:10 - 00:20:44:15
and kind of find other things
00:20:44:15 - 00:20:46:09
where, Oh, this is interesting to me,
00:20:46:09 - 00:20:48:15
this is where my my passion is.
00:20:48:15 - 00:20:52:04
I prefer to do this part of the project
00:20:52:06 - 00:20:53:06
also.
00:20:53:06 - 00:20:54:08
So someone listening
00:20:54:08 - 00:20:56:16
to this might say, Oh, that's great,
00:20:56:16 - 00:20:58:14
but I have to get this project done
00:20:58:14 - 00:21:00:24
and completed delegation
00:21:00:24 - 00:21:02:00
or collaboration
00:21:02:00 - 00:21:03:17
and all those kind of things.
00:21:03:17 - 00:21:05:13
But at the back of their mind
00:21:05:13 - 00:21:07:02
they may still be saying,
00:21:07:02 - 00:21:08:22
but I still don't have time to sit down.
00:21:08:22 - 00:21:10:04
Right? Right.
00:21:10:04 - 00:21:12:12
Because I have the question in my mind
00:21:12:12 - 00:21:13:22
that got the team working.
00:21:13:22 - 00:21:15:07
We collected the data,
00:21:15:07 - 00:21:17:04
but now I finally had to sit down
00:21:17:04 - 00:21:18:08
and write this thing,
00:21:18:08 - 00:21:20:03
especially if I'm the primary author
00:21:20:03 - 00:21:21:20
of this corresponding order.
00:21:21:20 - 00:21:22:20
I need to sit down and write
00:21:22:20 - 00:21:25:00
and I just don't have time to sit
00:21:25:00 - 00:21:25:18
and write.
00:21:25:18 - 00:21:27:21
So as someone who has written
00:21:27:21 - 00:21:29:05
a lot of publications
00:21:29:05 - 00:21:30:23
and writing takes time,
00:21:30:23 - 00:21:32:10
you have to have that
00:21:32:10 - 00:21:34:23
the floor at the end to get it all done.
00:21:34:23 - 00:21:36:14
How what are some of the strategies
00:21:36:14 - 00:21:39:08
that you will suggest to the listeners
00:21:39:08 - 00:21:43:15
as to how to find time to sit and write?
00:21:43:17 - 00:21:44:16
That is a question
00:21:44:16 - 00:21:46:11
that I'm constantly trying to answer.
00:21:46:11 - 00:21:47:06
I will say that
00:21:47:06 - 00:21:49:17
I think it changes a little bit
00:21:49:17 - 00:21:52:02
as I progress as a researcher and a
00:21:52:02 - 00:21:54:09
faculty member, but
00:21:54:11 - 00:21:54:20
I know
00:21:54:20 - 00:21:55:20
everyone says it,
00:21:55:20 - 00:21:58:01
but scheduling time is so important.
00:21:58:01 - 00:22:00:09
But I think I do have some insight here
00:22:00:09 - 00:22:02:12
because the key is realizing
00:22:02:12 - 00:22:03:05
that you don't need
00:22:03:05 - 00:22:06:10
an entire day to work on a project.
00:22:06:12 - 00:22:06:23
In fact,
00:22:06:23 - 00:22:07:22
I doubt most of us in
00:22:07:22 - 00:22:09:05
academia could set aside
00:22:09:05 - 00:22:11:19
an entire day to work on anything.
00:22:11:19 - 00:22:13:04
And I made this mistake
00:22:13:04 - 00:22:14:19
the first two years I had this
00:22:14:19 - 00:22:15:18
thought that,
00:22:15:18 - 00:22:17:16
okay, I need to get a whole day
00:22:17:16 - 00:22:18:18
blocked off
00:22:18:18 - 00:22:20:10
or at least a half a day
00:22:20:10 - 00:22:23:09
so that I can focus on writing.
00:22:23:09 - 00:22:24:17
And it just wasn't happening.
00:22:24:17 - 00:22:25:08
And then
00:22:25:08 - 00:22:27:04
I was trying to do stuff on the weekend
00:22:27:04 - 00:22:29:08
and no one needs to be doing projects on
00:22:29:08 - 00:22:29:19
a weekend.
00:22:29:19 - 00:22:32:02
We need to have that work life balance.
00:22:32:02 - 00:22:33:24
So I started to try to figure out
00:22:33:24 - 00:22:35:22
what's my minimum time
00:22:35:22 - 00:22:37:03
that I need to get into this
00:22:37:03 - 00:22:37:21
writing mode.
00:22:37:21 - 00:22:39:05
And it's different for everyone,
00:22:39:05 - 00:22:41:01
so that's what you have to explore.
00:22:41:01 - 00:22:43:15
I found that about 45 to
00:22:43:15 - 00:22:45:00
60 Minutes is kind of what
00:22:45:00 - 00:22:45:09
I need
00:22:45:09 - 00:22:46:07
to feel
00:22:46:07 - 00:22:48:13
really productive to get into my zone,
00:22:48:13 - 00:22:51:09
if you will, and and write.
00:22:51:09 - 00:22:52:11
Some people need less.
00:22:52:11 - 00:22:53:04
I have a colleague
00:22:53:04 - 00:22:54:12
who can hop on a project
00:22:54:12 - 00:22:56:01
if they have a 15 minute break
00:22:56:01 - 00:22:57:18
and do something productive.
00:22:57:18 - 00:22:59:14
That's a little less
00:22:59:14 - 00:23:01:09
like not enough time for me, I would say.
00:23:01:09 - 00:23:01:19
And I know
00:23:01:19 - 00:23:03:02
other colleagues
00:23:03:02 - 00:23:04:02
who may need a little bit
00:23:04:02 - 00:23:05:22
more like up to 2 hours.
00:23:05:22 - 00:23:07:11
But the first step is figuring out
00:23:07:11 - 00:23:08:23
what can you do right?
00:23:08:23 - 00:23:10:05
What do you really need?
00:23:10:05 - 00:23:12:18
And then schedule it's time,
00:23:12:18 - 00:23:14:02
but it's important to think about
00:23:14:02 - 00:23:15:18
how do I use that time wisely?
00:23:15:18 - 00:23:17:11
Because I can find these little chunks,
00:23:17:11 - 00:23:19:17
small chunks of time throughout the week.
00:23:19:17 - 00:23:21:16
And I'll tell you my my process,
00:23:21:16 - 00:23:22:10
and maybe it'll help
00:23:22:10 - 00:23:24:15
someone or people can modify it,
00:23:24:15 - 00:23:25:14
but I have that time
00:23:25:14 - 00:23:27:02
set aside on my calendar.
00:23:27:02 - 00:23:29:04
So I know and my colleagues
00:23:29:04 - 00:23:30:17
know, my boss knows what I'm doing.
00:23:30:17 - 00:23:32:21
For that little chunk of time.
00:23:32:21 - 00:23:33:24
I open up the project,
00:23:33:24 - 00:23:35:24
I quickly review the AMA and I
00:23:35:24 - 00:23:37:11
look at where I left off
00:23:37:11 - 00:23:38:18
and then I set a goal right
00:23:38:18 - 00:23:40:03
then in there for that session
00:23:40:03 - 00:23:41:12
based on the time I have.
00:23:41:12 - 00:23:43:16
So if I have 45 minutes,
00:23:43:16 - 00:23:44:24
I know I'm not going to write
00:23:44:24 - 00:23:46:23
an entire discussion. Right?
00:23:46:23 - 00:23:49:20
But my goal may be to outline or write
00:23:49:20 - 00:23:51:24
the topic sentences for that discussion.
00:23:51:24 - 00:23:54:03
Maybe I want to do one specific analysis.
00:23:54:03 - 00:23:55:02
Maybe I want to
00:23:55:02 - 00:23:57:12
transfer that data into a table.
00:23:57:12 - 00:23:59:05
Maybe I want to write the cover
00:23:59:05 - 00:24:00:01
letter, write
00:24:00:01 - 00:24:02:02
something that I can accomplish.
00:24:02:02 - 00:24:03:17
And so those small chunks of time
00:24:03:17 - 00:24:05:02
that fit in my schedule
00:24:05:02 - 00:24:07:15
and then I add a short term goal for me,
00:24:07:15 - 00:24:09:08
seeing something accomplish each time
00:24:09:08 - 00:24:10:05
I work on a project,
00:24:10:05 - 00:24:11:07
even if it's
00:24:11:07 - 00:24:13:04
little like a few topic sentences,
00:24:13:04 - 00:24:14:13
or I feel like
00:24:14:13 - 00:24:16:20
a better flow for this section
00:24:16:20 - 00:24:18:05
that keeps me motivated.
00:24:18:05 - 00:24:18:21
It helps me
00:24:18:21 - 00:24:20:24
recognize that I'm making progress
00:24:20:24 - 00:24:21:20
and I don't feel like
00:24:21:20 - 00:24:23:10
this is just a project sitting there
00:24:23:10 - 00:24:25:08
that's stressing me out
00:24:25:08 - 00:24:27:03
and we're never going to finish it
00:24:27:03 - 00:24:28:14
because I think
00:24:28:14 - 00:24:30:15
if you expect a perfect paper,
00:24:30:15 - 00:24:32:01
you will never finish.
00:24:32:01 - 00:24:33:21
And I even have a little quote
00:24:33:21 - 00:24:34:22
and I tell my students
00:24:34:22 - 00:24:36:16
this all the time, like we're striving
00:24:36:16 - 00:24:38:04
for progress, not perfection.
00:24:38:04 - 00:24:39:12
And when we see that progress,
00:24:39:12 - 00:24:41:01
we stay motivated.
00:24:41:01 - 00:24:42:16
Anyone that's done a Ph.D.,
00:24:42:16 - 00:24:43:18
probably at some point
00:24:43:18 - 00:24:45:05
had someone say to them,
00:24:45:05 - 00:24:48:00
What's the best dissertation?
00:24:48:00 - 00:24:49:22
I submitted dissertation
00:24:49:22 - 00:24:50:16
that idea
00:24:50:16 - 00:24:52:24
that we just need to finish this project
00:24:52:24 - 00:24:54:18
and those small chunks of time
00:24:54:18 - 00:24:55:23
really help.
00:24:55:23 - 00:24:56:19
I do know
00:24:56:19 - 00:24:58:02
in case some people
00:24:58:02 - 00:24:59:19
like this approach as well,
00:24:59:19 - 00:25:01:06
that it's very popular
00:25:01:06 - 00:25:03:04
to have writing retreats
00:25:03:04 - 00:25:05:04
and our department tried that once
00:25:05:04 - 00:25:06:16
and in four years
00:25:06:16 - 00:25:07:17
we were able to do it
00:25:07:17 - 00:25:09:22
once where we blocked off a whole day.
00:25:09:22 - 00:25:11:06
Everybody got into a room.
00:25:11:06 - 00:25:12:11
We all wrote all day.
00:25:12:11 - 00:25:13:11
We had little goals,
00:25:13:11 - 00:25:15:03
we had snacks and food,
00:25:15:03 - 00:25:16:10
and we were very productive.
00:25:16:10 - 00:25:17:20
But like I said,
00:25:17:20 - 00:25:18:12
we've only been able
00:25:18:12 - 00:25:19:17
to find time for that
00:25:19:17 - 00:25:22:05
once in a few years.
00:25:22:05 - 00:25:24:03
And so when you can't find eight
00:25:24:03 - 00:25:25:02
consecutive hours
00:25:25:02 - 00:25:26:13
to work on a project,
00:25:26:13 - 00:25:29:10
you find ways to carve out small
00:25:29:10 - 00:25:30:09
chunks of time
00:25:30:09 - 00:25:31:07
throughout your week,
00:25:31:07 - 00:25:32:10
throughout the month,
00:25:32:10 - 00:25:34:03
and then set small goals
00:25:34:03 - 00:25:37:03
that continually make that progress
00:25:37:06 - 00:25:39:09
like this. Beautiful.
00:25:39:09 - 00:25:41:17
Another idea for writing Retreat.
00:25:41:17 - 00:25:42:13
I think these days
00:25:42:13 - 00:25:43:21
many professional societies
00:25:43:21 - 00:25:48:09
are also doing writing based them saying
00:25:48:09 - 00:25:49:07
Encouraging your
00:25:49:07 - 00:25:50:22
writing week or something, saying
00:25:50:22 - 00:25:52:23
Let's all do a lot of writing this week
00:25:52:23 - 00:25:53:13
kind of thing.
00:25:53:13 - 00:25:56:02
So it's coming from the societies too,
00:25:56:02 - 00:25:57:06
but it's really beautiful
00:25:57:06 - 00:25:59:01
finding that small chunks of time
00:25:59:01 - 00:26:01:07
to get even a cover letter It or not.
00:26:01:07 - 00:26:03:09
Maybe it is just cleaning up the deficit,
00:26:03:09 - 00:26:05:19
but that's beautiful. That's really good.
00:26:05:19 - 00:26:08:04
I think we are on time to wrap
00:26:08:04 - 00:26:09:11
this up was
00:26:09:11 - 00:26:11:04
thank is so much
00:26:11:04 - 00:26:12:15
a writer for talking to us
00:26:12:15 - 00:26:13:23
and giving us a
00:26:13:23 - 00:26:15:08
one of our strategies on
00:26:15:08 - 00:26:16:19
how to get scholarship
00:26:16:19 - 00:26:18:03
productivity improved.
00:26:18:03 - 00:26:20:04
You know we all want to do it,
00:26:20:04 - 00:26:21:21
but sometimes we get stuck.
00:26:21:21 - 00:26:23:21
And this was really great
00:26:23:21 - 00:26:24:09
to hear you
00:26:24:09 - 00:26:25:18
talking about the strategies
00:26:25:18 - 00:26:27:09
that you personally have used,
00:26:27:09 - 00:26:29:10
and you performed it in a good way
00:26:29:10 - 00:26:31:07
to help you increase your study,
00:26:31:07 - 00:26:33:01
which clearly showed it
00:26:33:01 - 00:26:34:23
when you received the Presidential Award
00:26:34:23 - 00:26:36:13
for Excellence in Scholarship.
00:26:36:13 - 00:26:39:02
Congratulations once again on that.
00:26:39:02 - 00:26:40:03
And thank you so much
00:26:40:03 - 00:26:42:15
for having you here with us today.
00:26:42:15 - 00:26:43:13
Thank you very much.
00:26:43:13 - 00:26:45:09
Elizabeth, it's been an honor to be here,
00:26:45:09 - 00:26:47:14
and I hope to collaborate
00:26:47:14 - 00:26:48:13
with some of the listeners
00:26:48:13 - 00:26:51:07
at some point in the future.
00:26:51:09 - 00:26:53:11
So thank you to all our listeners
00:26:53:11 - 00:26:54:05
signing off.
00:26:54:05 - 00:26:56:18
Is Elizabeth any your podcast co-host