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Join the Youthworks Ministry Support Team as they discuss how to have an effective youth and children’s ministry in every church in conversation with local ministry workers as well as national and international voices.
Get in touch - effectiveministrypodcast@youthworks.net
AL James: uh, we are here
today with Chris Jones.
Chris is so good to have you.
Chris is one of my colleagues
on the ministry support
team and, uh, at YouthWorks.
And yeah.
Chris, tell us a little
bit, what, what's your role?
Um, what do you do on your,
Christ Jones: Yeah.
Average week?
Yeah, thanks al.
Great to be here.
Uh, I'm the northern region
of Sydney Youth Ministry
and high school SRE advisor.
Uh, so a lot of my time is spent out and
about in the northern part of Sydney, uh,
catching up with youth ministers, staff
teams, uh, helping churches think through.
What good youth ministry
looks like in their context.
Yeah.
AL James: Yeah.
And, uh, I, I, I know that
you really enjoy your role.
Have you, can you tell us some of the
things that you love about your role?
Christ Jones: Oh, I, I, I love, , I
love supporting youth ministers and,
and youth groups of all different
sizes and, and stages of ministry.
AL James: Yeah.
Um,
Christ Jones: you know, even just
in the last few weeks I've, I've
visited youth groups with, you
know, less than five kids Yeah.
And, and youth groups closer,
you know, to a hundred kids.
And there's great youth ministry
happening, uh, right across Sydney.
Yeah.
Love seeing it in action.
AL James: it's awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, it's really good to see.
I mean, that's something I
love about the role as well.
Like, good to see all the different
variety of youth ministry going on in the
faithful work that youth ministers and
youth leaders, um, are doing, which is
fantastic.
Absolutely.
We are gonna be talking today about
the impending social media ban
for under 16, or it's, it's, is
it 16 and under or is it under 16?
Under 16?
Yeah.
Christ Jones: That's a
good question though.
We should know the answer
AL James: to.
Oh, man.
I, I'll tell you what though,
I'm, I'm triggered a little
bit
Christ Jones: I'm not sure.
AL James: Well, while you
look that up, I'll just check.
Um, it, it triggers me a little bit,
that question, just because I remember,
um, plowing through or like, you know,
combing through the, um, the, what do they
call public health orders during COVID.
Oh, And that was one of
Christ Jones: all the details?
AL James: Yeah.
I was like, oh, is it, is it, is it,
is it 12 and under or is it under 12?
Like, what does 12 and under
mean?
All That sort of stuff.
So
Christ Jones: it's under
AL James: 16.
Okay.
Christ Jones: no longer have access.
AL James: good.
Well, we're gonna be talking about that.
And I guess particularly thinking
about some of the whys and where
fors, like why, why is this happening?
Are, we're gonna be thinking also
about what implications there
might be for youth ministry?
You know, is is it worth having a, a
social media presence for youth ministry?
What does it mean for the way
in which you interact with kids?
All this sort of stuff.
Um, but let's start with just some
kind of broad background stuff.
What is actually happening
with this social media ban and,
and also why we're doing it.
We'll start with the question
of
like, what's actually happened?
What's the
Christ Jones: number?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think, you know, Mo most people
are probably aware by now, you know, uh,
it's coming up well when we're recording
this in only a couple of weeks time.
Uh, but from December 10, yeah.
December 10th is the key date,
um, right across Australia.
Uh, the, what's happening is that.
Age restricted social media platforms.
Uh, the onus is on them to take reasonable
steps to prevent people who are under
16, uh, from creating a new account
or from keeping an existing account.
Uh, so a, a lot of social media platforms,
uh, you know, uh, the, the starting point
for most of them is 13 at the moment.
For a lot of them that's changing to 16.
Uh, and so as of right now, when we're
recording this, about two weeks out, uh,
that includes things like, uh, TikTok,
Snapchat, Instagram, Reddit, YouTube,
uh, they just announced Twitch last week.
Is is being rolled into that as well.
Facebook, although that's pretty much
a dead platform for under sixteens.
Anyway,
AL James: say, I'm very
active on Facebook.
Um,
Christ Jones: The band's not for you,
Al, you and I al uh, so a lot of those,
yeah, those social media platforms.
Um, and at this point, most of
the messaging apps and what's up.
WhatsApp, um, messenger,
discord, um, are not included.
So most of the messaging apps
and most of the gaming platforms
aren't actually included in that as
AL James: that as well, but the ins, but
Instagram messaging that's within Insta.
Christ Jones: Yeah.
Because that's rolled into the
same app, um, that that's, yep.
Caught up in the ban.
Yeah.
AL James: in Now it's interesting, like
the, some of the first steps, I guess from
the, um, from the social media companies
has sort of already started to roll out.
So I was hearing on the news the
other day that they've started to kind
of contact, um, or like go through
lists and start to kind of, you know,
um, communicate to people that are
16 and under, or sorry, under 16
sixteen's.
Okay.
Under 16.
Um, and, but, but importantly, I
think this is one of the things that
you sort of made really clear there,
but I just wanna sort of, um, you
know, uh, stop on this, that the, the
onus is not on the user themselves.
Christ Jones: Yeah, that's right.
The, the government's been quite clear
that the onus falls to the social
media platforms to, to enforce this.
Um, and so they've said there's, there's
not gonna be any, uh, punishment for, for
teenagers or for families, uh, you know,
if, if they're on a platform that they're
not meant to be on after December 10th.
So it's really about making sure the, the
social media companies, the platforms,
have protective measures in place to
prevent under sixteens on their platform.
AL James: leads us into the question
of, of, of why, but I guess I
just wanna say what that means.
I, one of the implications for youth
ministries that there's no sort of,
you know, if, if you become aware
that someone in your youth ministry
is, um, you know, participating,
you can take off the table the
idea that they're acting illegally
Christ Jones: Mm.
AL James: because the onus is,
the law is about, um, social media
companies taking reasonable steps
too.
Christ Jones: That's right.
And, and, and in many ways it's,
it's the same as at the moment if,
you know, uh, you know, if you've
got an 11 or a 12-year-old in your
ministry who's on Instagram, which
currently has a, you know, minimum age
of 13, it's the same kind of thing.
The, the goal, the starting point
is just moving from 13 to 16
AL James: Yeah.
Which takes some of the
heat out of it, I think.
'cause it, you know, uh, um, I mean
there's, there's obviously gonna be
ethical questions about social media and
that kind of thing, but at least from a
legal point of view, you know, we're not
having to kind of arm and error as to
whether someone's acting illegally or not,
Christ Jones: that's right.
And we, you know, we're not, you know,
needing to report families or young
people who are doing the wrong thing here.
AL James: Oh man.
What a quandary That would be.
That'd be so
interesting.
Um, okay.
So, but that does lead us to the point
of like, you know, this is a big move and
am I right in thinking
this is like the first move at,
at least in the western world,
Christ Jones: I believe
AL James: in the world even
Christ Jones: As far as I'm
aware, this is kind of a.
A world first shift.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's my understanding too.
AL James: Yeah.
I mean, interesting.
I, I was listening to a podcast this
morning on the way, and it wasn't actually
in preparation for recording this,
but talking about just how everybody.
It, you know, it used to be kind of old
men shaking their fist at the clouds
saying, oh, you gotta get off the
social.
Christ Jones: Mm.
AL James: But, but actually there's
a, there's a consistent voice
variety of age ranges, right?
From young right through to old who
are kind of all agreeing that this
social media thing is actually probably
not good for us, but why are the
government kind of taking this step
to do
Christ Jones: It, it, it, it's interesting
just, just on that point about people
recognizing I was, uh, uh, uh, reading
some information from, from Ryle just
recently about Generation Alpha, which
is the generation that this is impacting.
And one of their recent, um, uh, one of
their recent surveys showed that, uh,
gen Alpha is the most socially connected
generation kind of ever, uh, but also
has the highest rates of loneliness.
Wow.
Which is just fascinating.
Um, and, and, uh, interesting
statistics that, that, that they
found, I, I can't remember the exact
numbers, but a huge portion of.
AL James: Uh,
Christ Jones: Teenage current teenagers,
um, recognize that they would actually
really like to give up social media
'cause they can see the, the challenges
that, that it brings to life.
Uh, but also the survey data showed
that even though most of them
recognize, they would love to be able
to give up social media, they don't
feel they can because that's where
all the social interaction happens.
Yeah.
Which is just a fascinating, uh, position
we're about to walk into where for, you
know, under sixteens in many ways that
decision is gonna be made for them.
AL James: Yeah.
Which is interesting, isn't it?
Yeah.
That's a say more about that dynamic.
Like what, what, what makes you,
makes that interesting for you?
Christ Jones: Yeah.
Well, well I think in, in, in some ways,
uh, depending on how it's rolled out,
and I mean two weeks out, we still don't
really know a lot of the details of how
these platforms are gonna enforce it.
Uh.
AL James: But,
Christ Jones: in some ways, the, the
choice is gonna be made for them.
We, we, we assume it.
They're not gonna have a
choice of, do I stay on or not?
Um, the, the decision, you
know, if it, if it's enforced
AL James: Yeah.
Christ Jones: You know, as
they're saying it will be.
Uh, and, and because that's
gonna be almost an, potentially
an overnight kind of switch.
Um, I think it, it's gonna be fascinating
times, particularly in Australia here,
leading into the long summer holidays
when teenagers are gonna be somewhat
socially, relationally disconnected
from each other because they're
not gonna be at school together.
And adds to that removing their primary
pegs, particularly when they're, they're
not physically present with each other.
Uh, it's, yeah, it's gonna be
interesting to see how it plays out.
AL James: Yeah.
So, so there's a, there's a
bit of an agency piece there.
So one of the, one of the byproducts of,
you know, like whether you, whether you
think this is good or bad, um, I, I think
broadly people, people kind of recognize
there's a, there's some good in this,
but, um, one of the byproducts of that
is that there's an agency piece taking,
being taken away from under 16 year olds.
Um, uh, but then also, you know, you're
talking about this, like, there's
a pastoral moment here of kind of
like, okay, well what's, what's
gonna happen in this period of time
where they're actually just getting
used to, they're on the leading
edge of this, fairly significant.
I mean, it would be fair to say
this is a, a reasonably big societal
change, at least for their world.
Christ Jones: absolutely.
And, and, and I think as, as people
working in the youth ministry space as,
as youth ministers, as youth leaders,
we shouldn't underestimate, uh, I
think this is gonna be very significant
as, as you said in terms of, uh, the,
the culture around how young people.
Interact and connect with each other.
I, I think this is potentially,
yeah, quite a significant moment.
Um, I mean, yeah, I mean, the government,
they're, they're saying that these
restrictions are designed to protect young
people from, you know, the pressures,
the risks that, that social media brings.
Uh, it, it seems to be that it's
probably more in the, the area of
addiction and social media dependency,
uh, just, you know, reading between
the lines, looking at what platforms
have been banned and what hasn't.
Uh, it's interesting that they haven't.
You know, um, include a lot of
the gaming platforms in this.
Um, you know, so it's, it's not
as though teenagers will have no
access to any social media at all.
Right?
It's, it's not cutting
them off from everything.
Uh, it's just a, a certain side of that.
And so, I mean, it's, it, it's interesting
to wonder, you know, will, will there
actually be an increase in gaming?
Will, will that become the new
place that people gravitate towards?
Because at the moment, as of right now,
at least, most of the gaming platforms
AL James: uh, excluded.
Christ Jones: excluded?
Well, haven't been
AL James: yet.
Haven't been
Christ Jones: yet.
Yeah.
So there's a list of included, there's
a list of excluded and most of the
gaming ones sit in the not yet decided
AL James: although twit, Twitch.
Christ Jones: Twitch.
Just as of a few days ago.
AL James: Look, help me out here, Chris.
My, my understanding of Twitch is that
it's a streaming of games service,
but do you actually play things play?
Sorry, I sound so old.
Do you actually play
video games on Twitch?
You don't, do you?
Christ Jones: I don't think so.
I'm gonna sound old now too.
No, it's, it's, it's pre predominantly
watching other people play and,
and it's not just gaming, you know,
I've got a mate who Twitch streams
himself, you know, doing musical
performances and stuff, so Yeah.
But it's predominantly used for gaming.
Yeah.
AL James: I mean, one, one of the
h having read, um, uh, Jonathan
Height's book, the Anxious
Generation
not that long ago, um, one of the
interesting things that he talks about
in terms of, you know, what defines
social media, um, well, actually
no, I should say what, what he talks
about as good for human flourishing
is, um, relationships that are, um,
uh, one-to-one, not one to some,
um, that are, have a high
barrier of entry and exit.
Um, you know, so you can't just kind
of go, oh yeah, I'm just gonna, you
know, dive into this relationship
and then start, just leave.
Yeah.
The high barrier for entry and exit,
um, uh, like, oh, what's it called?
Um, uh, what is it?
Sequential, sequential.
Uh,
Christ Jones: like in order?
AL James: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's, um, uh, it's in real time.
I can't remember the, the actual sort
of language that uses, but it's this
idea of like, it's, it's in real time.
And so, you know, where with a
messaging platform or social media,
you can kind of lob something,
walk away and then come back
in five minutes time.
But that real time interaction, um,
is really important for, um, people
to kind of, I guess, learn, learn,
communication.
and to flourish well in communication.
And then the, the fourth one, gosh,
I'm gonna, it's gonna test me.
Um, oh, is embodied,
right?
Yep.
So, um, and because you, you know,
like, it so happens quite often.
We, we record these, these podcasts on a
online platform, but we're sitting across
Christ Jones: board.
Yeah.
AL James: and I'm seeing every little
kind of, you know, uh, like tiny little
change in the facial facial muscles.
So I have a, I have a
decent read on what you're
Christ Jones: Mm mm.
AL James: Um.
And so, but the thing that Jonathan Hyt
says about the social media, like the
major social media platforms and arguably,
uh, WhatsApp could be in this category
as well, is, is it's not embodied.
Um, it's, um, broadcast rather than
one-to-one or one to some.
Um, you know, so it's, it's one to many.
Um, it's, it's a really low
barrier for entry and exit.
You can just, you can just block
and delete, see you later, I'm out.
Um, so you don't have to
work through these issues.
And then what's the, what's the other one?
Um, the, oh, the, the sequential.
Yeah.
Which I haven't got the word
for that, but, but that sort
of, but it's interesting.
So he, he sort of makes the argument
that actually those four things are
really helpful and important for
kind of flourishing, for particularly
for young people as they learn
how to be humans in the world.
But actually social media kind of
removes all of those things as well.
So I, I assume that that's part of the
argument as well, is a lot of people
have been, and even even governments
have been reading Jonathan Height's
work and some of the other stuff
that's, it's a little bit cont you
know, people contest that stuff as well.
Like, it's pretty, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Um,
but
Christ Jones: as you said earlier,
I think there is a broad recognition
even from young people that actually,
yeah, there are challenges and, uh,
not so much dangers, but, but harms
that, that social media can bring.
And I think this is an attempt to
recognize that and perhaps, uh,
perhaps delay some of those things
until, until 16 when, when perhaps
young people are a little bit more,
you know, cognitively developed and
AL James: The brain, the brain development
Christ Jones: those things better.
AL James: Yeah.
They're, they're not 25 and having
to pay less in insurance yet, but
Christ Jones: right.
AL James: Um, but yeah, that cognitive,
do you, can I just ask cj Yeah.
Do you reckon it's a good
move or do you reckon it's,
Christ Jones: it, it's
really hard to know.
I think, um, uh, I, I, I think there
are genuinely good intentions behind
it and, and I think it's a recognition
that there are dangers and challenges
that come with social media use.
And I think, you know, even as a parent
myself, uh, I've got a 12-year-old
son, uh, and I can see some of those
usage habits and patterns developing
in him that, you know, when, when I
was his age, for example, just, you
know, context was totally different
and, and that wasn't the case.
And
AL James: was decades
Christ Jones: ago.
Absolutely.
AL James: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Christ Jones: Um, and, and
so I, I think, I think.
I can recognize that there's,
there's good behind it.
Uh, I think it, it remains to be seen,
whether it, whether it's just gonna
be a bit of a bandaid attempt and,
you know, just new platforms or other
things will emerge that don't fall
under the exclude, sorry, under the ban
AL James: Yeah.
Uh,
Christ Jones: that still
have the same challenge.
You know, like, like a, or even
just the gaming stuff, for example.
I mean, you know, there's a lot of,
uh, not exclusively, but particularly
young teenage boys who are, you know,
quite addicted to the gaming side
more so than, you know, the, uh,
you know, the Instagram or TikTok
AL James: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
things.
Christ Jones: Uh, but this
doesn't address that at all.
So
AL James: yeah, yeah.
Christ Jones: I know as, as I've talked
with people about it there, yeah.
There seems to be a little bit of,
well, is this actually gonna change
much or is it just gonna shift
where, where young people are online?
AL James: Yeah, totally.
And, and I, yeah, I, I think, um, just,
you know, like, I guess I wanna talk a
little bit about what, what I think about
it as well, and I think like, tho some
of those, those questions remain for me.
Um.
It is interesting that
there's enough impetus.
I mean, governments only
ever do things when there's
enough political impetus to be
able to do it, You know,
because like they're assuming that this
is gonna be a good move politically.
right?
Christ Jones: So,
AL James: I mean, I guess that sort
of points to the idea that there is
something in society that people,
whether or not this blunt instrument
is gonna kind of achieve the outcomes.
But one of, I think one of the
things that I'm encouraged by,
um, is, um, I guess just that
idea that, that, um, it is a move.
Do, do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so, like, um, and I,
you know, you talked about.
You know, uh, parenting,
like same deal with me.
I see the addiction patterns
in my own children as well.
We've, we've tried to really delay,
um, you know, giving, um, certainly
social media access, but also
phones and that kind of thing
as much as we possibly could.
Um, but yeah, I definitely
see those, those patterns.
And I think partly because it is very
much to do with brain chemistry, right?
Like,
so
it is, you know, these, these, um, these
patterns and these habits of usage at
one level there, it's a systemic problem.
It's, and it's a, and it's, you know, so
in some, in some ways young people are
kind of at the mercy of these, these,
you know, you know, million, billion
dollar industry of kind of, how can we
keep, um, grab and maintain the attention
of, of, you know, users and keep the,
keep their attention for a long time.
And so it is brain chemistry.
And so at one level, yeah, I think
I'm encouraged by at least a move.
To kind of help safeguard
young people and who, who knows.
Christ Jones: And, and I think when we, we
take that a step further and think about
the pastoral edge, but both as parents
and as as youth ministers, youth, youth
ministry leaders, um, actually, you know,
we, we want to help young people develop
some of those healthy social relational
habits or, or muscles, you know, we, we
want 'em to actually, I think we have
an opportunity and a responsibility to,
to actually help them in that space.
AL James: Yeah.
And um, it's so interesting 'cause
that like, it really, in some ways it
drives the core of like, what is our
responsibility in youth ministry, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And uh, yeah, like, yeah.
Do we have the respons?
Oh, certainly we have the discipleship
Christ Jones: responsibility.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
AL James: Um, but, you know, I
guess this is such a, a key part of
being a young person at this point
in time that, um, perhaps, um, some
of that discipleship responsibility
is actually helping people form
habits.
Yeah.
which,
Christ Jones: And, and I think especially
at this moment in time when it, when
it's such a clear cultural change, uh,
I think we would do ourselves or do, do
the young people in our youth ministries
a disservice if we don't address it.
AL James: Yeah.
It can't stick your head on this
Christ Jones: That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
AL James: Alright.
I mean, I mean, we've sort
of alluded to some of these
already.
but like, what are the questions
that this raises for, you know, youth
Christ Jones: Yeah, yeah.
Look, I, I probably should say as well,
a a, a lot of these things that I'm gonna
be talking about, what is these questions?
Does it raise thoughts, thinking ideas?
Uh, I should acknowledge that a lot
of this comes from, uh, conversations
I've had over the last month with
youth ministers in the northern region.
We've had had a bunch of
meetings to talk about this,
and so I wanna acknowledge that.
Uh, yeah.
So a lot of these thoughts and ideas
are not mine, but, uh, uh, yeah.
Recognizing some great input
from northern region youth
AL James: Yeah.
We're better together networks.
Absolutely.
Networks are well worth being part of.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Christ Jones: Um, yeah.
Key questions as I've talked to people
that have come up over and over,
um, you know, a big one is, well,
what does this mean for our youth?
Instagram account?
Right?
Lot, lot of youth groups.
You've got your youth insta
you, you're posting, here's
what's been happening, you know?
Come to youth this week,
that kind of stuff.
So questions down, what
does it mean for our youth?
Insta?
Uh, because
AL James: half of your youth
Christ Jones: because that's right.
Functionally, I mean 16 and up, that,
that's re really year 10, 11, 12.
Well, yeah, and not even really
most of year 10 until later
in the year, so That's right.
You know, start of next year, it's really
just a year, 11 and twelves that are
gonna have access to that as well as
leaders, parents, that kind of thing.
Yeah.
So what does it mean for our youth
Insta, uh, you know, what platforms
should we maybe pivot to using instead
that, that everyone can access?
Um, you know, if we do keep our,
our youth Insta, uh, like, you know,
and really only year 11 and 12 are
on that at the start of next year.
Are we excluding half the group then?
So, a lot, a lot of questions on,
on that practical side of things.
Uh, quite a few youth ministers thinking
through, uh, do we actually just, um,
take our youth ministry off social media
completely, you know, in recognition that.
Perhaps, yeah.
This, this has been made for
the wellbeing of young people.
Are we better to actually embrace
that and, and just look for other,
other forms of, of communication?
Uh, a bunch of questions around, you
know, youth ministers wondering as this
plays out as we get into the start of
next year, you know, across term one,
term two, are we gonna see an increase
in young people, uh, you know, dealing
with, um, loneliness and anxiety?
If, if those established social
connections that they've had.
Now, not there particularly off the
back of the Christmas break, you know?
So a bit of wondering there,
AL James: and perhaps part
partly in particular because
of the change as much as
Christ Jones: anything.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Um, and, and then questions around,
you know, how do, how do we best
talk about this as a church, not,
not just with teenagers, but you
know, how do we address this from
the platform in our Sunday services?
How do we, how do we equip parents
and families to navigate this change?
I, I think, uh, I think a lot of parents
are feeling unsure in how to approach
this or talk about this as well.
Yeah.
AL James: Yeah.
And we, and I guess like, just on that
one, I mean, youth Works, um, really
tries to clearly articulate this idea that
parents, you know, we wanna be partnering
Christ Jones: with parents.
Yeah, yeah.
AL James: Um, and so
that's a really important
question.
That's right.
So, I mean, those are some
of the questions that are
raised for youth ministry.
What do you reckon are some of the
implications, you know, leading, I guess
leading
from those questions?
Yeah.
Christ Jones: Yeah.
I, I think we can probably.
Put the implications into two categories.
I, I think there's practical
implications and, and I think
there's pastoral implications.
I actually think the pastoral
implications are the more important
one that we need to think about.
A as I've talked with youth ministers
a lot are just thinking, oh, what
are the practical implications?
What do we do with our youth?
Insta, for example.
But then as we talk about it, we, we
actually realize that the pastoral
implications are more significant.
Um, I think the p practical implications
are, are worth thinking about.
AL James: can I I just wanna
like, just had this thought, right?
Yeah.
Um, I've never thought about this
before, but in some ways like
this, we're on, on the watershed.
This is a watershed moment.
Um, this reminds me a little
bit at a smaller scale of 2020.
Um, so I
started in my role at YouthWorks in 2020.
And
Christ Jones: a time,
AL James: I mean, I think I was
in my role for two weeks
and then it was lockdown.
Yep.
And so we just were like zooming and, you
know, three, trying to have three meetings
a day and you know, just, and there was
a lot of conversation about practical
Considerations.
How do you get youth grip online?
You remember the time, cj?
Oh, I do.
Yeah.
Um, and, um.
And so, um, but one of the things that,
you know, I, I guess I realized over
a period of time, and actually this
is how this podcast started, you know,
back in the day was just kind of going,
ah, it's really important we address
these, um, practical considerations.
'cause we want
ministry to continue,
but how do we help discipleship
Yeah.
To continue in this setting.
So, just sort of reminds me of
Christ Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A
AL James: moment of like, there's, there's
a reasonably, um, in that age bracket kind
of, of, you know, 12 to 16 or 12 to 15.
There's a reasonably reasonably big,
I I, I don't, I'm not sure I wanna
call it seismic, but certainly,
um, it's a significant change
and there's gonna be practical.
Yeah.
But there's also gonna be
discipleship considerations.
That's right.
So anyway, keep going.
Just
reminded
Christ Jones: Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean, I mean, there is
the practical considerations.
Um, you know, like, uh, if, if you're
a youth ministry that uses Instagram
significantly, and, and, you know,
I've chatted to some youth pastors,
uh, who have been using their youth
in stuff, for example, um, you know,
very, uh, really well as kind of a
front window to their youth ministry.
Um, you know, it, it, they use it
genuinely, effectively as a space
where young people can, can see
what youth group is like, you know,
get a sense of the space, the vibe,
the, the people before you attend.
AL James: It's the metaphor of
the window shopping kind of thing.
That's
Christ Jones: right.
And, and, and I think that's a
really genuine consideration.
You know, Jen Alpha, like they,
they will check something out
online before they go and visit.
You know, they'll go and look at street
View or whatever, or, you know, go
look at the Instagram page of that.
Cafe or whatever to get a
feel for it before they visit.
AL James: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christ Jones: youth groups that
have tapped into that, uh, yeah,
there, there's a, there's practical
considerations there on Yeah.
What, what do we do with that?
Uh,
AL James: How do we have a front window?
Christ Jones: right.
Where, where does that space move?
How do we still provide an opportunity
for young people to, to see that,
you know, like, do we have to pivot
back to the, you know, late nineties,
early two thousands where each youth
ministry has a, a website or something
where you're seeing that or Yep.
Who knows what that's gonna
look like a newsletter.
That's right.
You know, we'll start faxing out.
No.
Um, yeah.
Exact Exactly.
Uh, you know, yeah.
What that looks like.
And, and I don't, I don't think we
really have some answers there, but,
AL James: Have
Christ Jones: it's a
practical consideration.
Yeah,
AL James: Yeah.
Have, have any of your, your crew
from the, um, from the northern
region, have they had any sort of
thoughts on, you know, is it, so,
yeah.
No.
A is it worth replacing the front window?
That's, I mean, that's the,
that's the first question.
Mm-hmm.
And then b, like, you know,
what might they replace it
with?
yeah.
Yeah.
yeah.
Are there any thoughts?
Yeah.
Or is it still just ruminations?
Christ Jones: Yeah.
Uh, some have started to,
to, to think about that.
Um, so, uh, and there's a huge variety.
Like there's a bunch of youth groups that
don't have an Instagram at the moment.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, some just factor of don't have
anyone to maintain it or the size of
their group's not really worth it.
Others have made an
intentional decision not to.
Uh, but I think, yeah, a few, uh,
you know, a few youth groups are
either rebooting or leaning more into
more of like, maybe like a weekly.
Email newsletter or, or
something like that now.
I mean, it's hard 'cause email's not a
great form of communication for teenagers,
but looking to provide something that
you can actually, these days better embed
pictures and, you know, short videos,
that kind of stuff into, uh, some groups
are thinking through maybe, maybe YouTube
shorts becomes a space to do that because
intriguingly, well, so YouTube, you can't
have an account on YouTube if you're
under 16, but you'll still be able to
access YouTube just without logging in.
Yeah.
So that's a space summer
AL James: because that
prevents commenting and
stuff like that, presumably.
Christ Jones: That's right, that's right.
So yeah, people are exploring different
options, um, in that, in that space there.
AL James: I think I saw on the, um,
uh, yeah, I mean it's interesting.
So like I saw on the, the
Sydney Anglican Youth Ministry,
um, Facebook
page, someone was talking
about using, um, using WhatsApp
Christ Jones: MM.
AL James: and WhatsApp communities.
'cause there's ones that, that
you can broadcast kind of stuff.
Yeah.
But I think the tricky thing is it's with
all of these sorts of options, the email,
the WhatsApp, that kind of thing, it's
like you need to have bought in before
your
Christ Jones: right.
In some ways, they're more of a
closed community as opposed to
just sort of the front window idea.
AL James: Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
Yeah.
It's
interesting.
Yep.
Christ Jones: Um, I think the other
big practical one that I've had lots of
con, like a lot of youth ministers are
thinking about is, uh, particularly if,
you know, a chat on Instagram has been
where, you know, let's say, you know, the
year nine and 10 boys discussion group,
those boys with their leaders or whatever
the group is, uh, where do we move those
spaces to in terms of that group culture?
Accountability, all that kind of stuff.
Um, it seems to be that most have
either already moved or are, are looking
to move to, to WhatsApp communities.
Um, that seems like it's
gonna be a good option there.
AL James: Yeah.
And some, some of the, I guess some
of the good things about that is
that, um, there's, there's that
broadcast, broadcast opportunity
where
um, you can put something out that
doesn't then kind of, it isn't a two-way
kind
Christ Jones: of
AL James: that can happen through
WhatsApp communities, but then also
you can form those communities where
there might be discussion groups.
It's
Christ Jones: That's right.
You can set up little groups
within that bigger community.
Good.
From kind of safe ministry point
of view, you know, the youth
minister can have oversight at
a broad level of those things.
You know, you can set up, um,
parent groups even within that.
And, um, some youth groups in the
north have already been doing that
this year, kind of trialing it and,
and have been reporting that that's
actually been working quite well.
So that, that seems like a good
option for a lot of contexts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
AL James: I mean it's, it is
interesting as well 'cause it, it,
it occurs to me, so, I mean my, my
kids, um, my older, my older two
boys, they are, they use WhatsApp
Christ Jones: a lot already.
Yep.
AL James: Um.
Uh, and typically haven't used Insta for
messaging, although occasionally, but,
um, it's been more sort of WhatsApp.
But you know, as as, especially as
I was thinking about some of these,
um, you know, Jonathan Height's,
four kind of characteristics of
social media, it seems actually that
WhatsApp's quite a lot like that.
So it'd be interesting to see.
Yeah.
What will Meta do?
Like, you know, Facebook's parent company.
Yeah.
Um, and WhatsApp's parents.
What will they do to WhatsApp,
which is currently now, like,
will they try to kinda leverage
that?
Christ Jones: it, it's intriguing
because even just over the last few
months, some of the new features on
WhatsApp is actually moving more towards
in social media style things that.
May see them scooped up under Yeah,
AL James: yeah, yeah.
So I mean,
and, and who like, wait, this is not,
this is not for us to talk about.
But it was interesting because,
you know, at one level they,
they will need to kind of protect
their, their asset in Australia.
Christ Jones: Yeah.
Well, but again, they, they're global.
You know, how, how big a share of
the market is Australia, will they
actually be concerned about that?
Who knows?
Time will tell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
AL James: Yep.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Anyway, so WhatsApp potentially
could be a, a good way to go.
Um, yeah.
Any other practical implications?
I,
Christ Jones: I think that that's,
they're probably the big ones that,
as I've been talking to people, uh,
seem, seem to be the, the key things.
Yeah.
Yeah,
AL James: yeah.
Yeah.
Well, let's, let's dive into your
second category, which is the pastoral
implications.
Christ Jones: Yeah.
I, I think the pastoral, I think there's
pastoral implications when we think about.
AL James: uh,
Christ Jones: Young people.
So how are we actually discipling
the teenagers through this, um,
the, uh, pastoral implications
for our youth leaders as well?
'cause I think we need to actually,
uh, think through how do we help them
talk about, about this with teenagers?
'cause in many ways, they're gonna
be the ones on the frontline in in
small group discussion where, who
are gonna be hearing the thoughts
and feelings and, and conversations.
So we need to be equipping them,
uh, and then families as well.
How do we actually help
families navigate this?
Yeah,
AL James: Yeah.
Well, let's, let's start with youth.
Like, just roll through those three
Christ Jones: categories.
Yep.
Yep.
I think one of the biggest things
with youth is we need to approach
this from, uh, a point of view of
AL James: coming with listening
Christ Jones: ears.
Um, I think as these changes roll
out as, as youth ministers, as
youth leaders, uh, we want to be.
Working hard to listen to young people
about what they're experiencing, what
are they thinking about these changes,
even these next couple of weeks?
What, what are they thinking
about them as as we approach?
But certainly once they've kicked in,
uh, what impact has that had on them?
How are they feeling about this?
Um, we, we need to be asking good
questions and listening to their answers.
Uh, I think we need to be quicker
to listen than, than just jumping
straight into telling them,
this is what you now need to do.
AL James: to do.
Yeah.
Because they're, they're processing,
like we've, we've kind of alluded
to this a number of times.
There's a re a reasonably
big change in their life.
So, I mean, and, and I just think, you
know, principle, one of the, the seven
principles, um, at Youth Works, like
first one is word, word-based relational
discipleship.
Like Absolutely.
You know, Like
this relation, how does
ministry occurs through
relationship.
which is, that is not a, that
is not one way conversation.
Christ Jones: That's right.
That's right.
And so I think, you know, as we come,
come to this change and, you know,
uh, I mean one of, one of the good
things, well good things is, you
know, being December 10, most youth
groups are, you've probably either
just finished the week before, maybe
you've got one, one week of youth group
left at the time the change comes in.
And so for, in many ways, a lot of
these considerations are what are
the things you're gonna be doing as
you start the new year, next year.
Uh, now, you know, a bunch of churches
will have a summer camp over January.
So there's, you know, IM implications
there, but I think, think about
as we get into term one next year,
what, what kind of conversations
are, are we having, you know?
And so I think we wanna be
asking questions like, um,
you know, to young people.
Uh, what do they know about
why the law has changed?
You know, why do they
think this is happening?
Um, you know, do they think
that, do they feel that these
changes are gonna be helpful?
For young people, you know, will,
do you think this will help young
people be protected from things
that are overwhelming or harmful?
Uh, asking them about how they're
feeling, how, how's their, how are their
friends feeling about these changes?
Uh, what, what kind of impact have they
noticed since the changes have begun?
Uh, and then even asking them things
like, you know, what do they think is
gonna be helpful now that they can't
be on these platforms for remaining
socially connected with others?
AL James: Yeah.
And, and I like that because some, some
of the questions that you're asking
there are kind of reactive, here's this
thing that's happening, happening or
has happened, depending on when you're
having the conversation and some of
it's proactive, like, what might you
be what might be able to kind
of do to safeguard yourself?
Yeah.
Um, or to think through these sorts of the
implications of this.
Christ Jones: and, that's it.
That's exactly it.
I, I think as we have these conversations,
as we listen to them, we actually wanna
be equipping them with, with tools and
skills to navigate this well, rather than.
Telling them, here's
what you need to do now.
AL James: Yeah,
Absolutely.
And this is gonna be, it's like
we keep saying this, there's
significant cultural change.
Yeah.
Um.
What do you wanna say about that?
Christ Jones: Yeah, I, I think,
I think it's worth saying
that these next few years is a
particularly key, I think, right?
So at the moment, the starting
point is 13, that's moving to 16.
So these next three years, we've got a
group of teenagers who are currently on
these platforms who are being asked now
or told, or depending on how it gets
implemented, maybe come December 10.
Suddenly they find themselves, they
don't have access to these platforms.
And I think that that's
a really key change.
These next three years.
We're in a window where we've got
people who were on the platforms
now, not three years down the track.
The starting point has just moved.
I, I think in some ways it
potentially gets a little bit
easier three years from now.
Because these young people, in theory
won't have been on the platforms, but
I think these next three years are,
are key and particularly, you know,
the next first six months of next year.
And so I think navigating, uh,
how we approach that and help
these people process that and work
through that and how we help them
adjust, uh, I guess their relational
muscle for want of a better word.
You know, how do we actually help them
form new healthy habits here when perhaps
they're used to something different.
Yeah,
AL James: Yeah.
And some, I guess some of that
will be kind of us, you know,
youth ministries, churches, um,
scaffolding things, you know?
Yeah.
Like providing opportunities potentially,
you know, like are there gonna be
some, some touch points across the
summer where the youth community can
get together, that kind of thing.
Have some embodied
Christ Jones: That's right.
AL James: right.
Where they don't have to kind of rely
on, um, being, um, being, you know,
right up to speed on their communication.
Um,
Christ Jones: Um, and, and we
know how to do that well, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, that's one of the, the great
things about, you know, good, you know,
relational discipleship, youth ministry.
We, we actually know how, we know the
benefits of meeting together face to face.
We know how to do that.
Well, we can help teenagers with that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
AL James: Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean, that's, that's, it's gonna
take some time and, and it sounds, yeah,
like, I'm sure there'll be different
issues in three years time, but we've
got a little bit of time to sort
of think through what they will be.
But for now, it's just helping,
helping those young people
kind of, um, through this
change.
Change is always, you know,
there's grief associated with
the loss that change brings.
So, um, you know, some, for some
people it'd be really major.
Yeah.
I, I can imagine.
Um, I'm not sure, but I can
imagine that some people will
experience some significant mental
health episodes in this time.
Christ Jones: I suspect so.
AL James: Yeah.
So I guess we just need
to be kind of, um, yeah.
Aware of that.
Um, and particularly for our youth
teams, I mean, and you'll, you'll
talk to us about youth teams in a
moment, but, um, for our youth leaders.
Um, it's probably helpful for us
to kind of just indicate that, let
people know that, you know, if there
are things that you notice changes in
behavior
in young people that because of
the, uh, of the rarefied kind of
time that it is, it's not about,
not a bad thing to just speak up.
Um, yeah.
Talk to your head leader, that kind
of
Christ Jones: That's right.
And I think, you know, recognizing
that, you know, this, this is a change.
It does have a particular date that
it's coming in, but because it's
a a significant shift, it's, it's
gonna take time for people to adjust.
Like we shouldn't just expect that
bang come December 11th, everything's,
you know, operating on a new system.
And so I think if we
think in the sense of.
Helping young people learn new habits
or learn better habits, that'll help us
recognize that this is going to take time.
Yeah.
You know, even if the
AL James: and persistence, right.
Christ Jones: right.
Even if the shift has been overnight
and you know, that might feel like a
cold Turkey cutoff from those platforms.
Actually them adjusting and adapting
to what a new way of relating looks
like will be a process over time.
AL James: Yeah.
Okay.
So we talked about youth,
Let's talk about leaders.
Christ Jones: Yeah.
I think one of the key things here
is, you know, uh, as youth ministers,
we wanna be helping our leaders.
We wanna be equipping them.
To have good, helpful conversations.
You know, I think there's probably a
space to talk about these things as
a whole youth group, but you know, we
know the reality is a, a lot of these
conversations will happen in small group
discussions, or more incidentally in
that kind of relational space as youth
ministry goes on, and so I think equipping
leaders to think clearly because.
A lot of youth leaders, you know, if,
if they're not parents of teenagers
and this band doesn't impact them,
they actually either might not be
that aware of what's happening or
just not thinking about it at all.
And, and that's understandable.
So I think, yeah, you know, there's
probably a good space for talking
as a leadership team about here's
how we are approaching it, both
practically, but also pastorally.
Let's, let's think about how do we
talk about this with young people?
Um, and even equipping them maybe,
you know, with a good set of, you
know, here's, here's half a dozen
questions that we might be asking
over term one next year in your groups
as a, as a resource up your sleeve.
Something
AL James: good.
And that, that'll be some of
those questions that you mentioned
Christ Jones: Yeah, that's right.
AL James: Yeah, that's right.
Listening
to young people.
Um, you know, that, like, what did,
what did you, you ask things like,
what, what do you know about the law?
Christ Jones: Mm.
That's
AL James: changed.
You know, what, what's, uh, you
know, do you think this change
will help protect young people?
How you feeling about
it?
You
Christ Jones: What, what impact are
you noticing amongst your friends?
Yep, yep.
So equipping leaders to have
those conversations and to
and to listen well, yeah.
AL James: Yeah.
And they need to, they need to be aware of
the, the discipleship kind of moment that,
um, young people are in at that point.
Christ Jones: Yeah.
And, and then probably debriefing those
things as a team across the, the, the
course of term one, you know, hearing
from each other as leaders, what, you
know, because the impact might be very
different from, you know, year seven or
eight to year nine or 10, for example.
AL James: Yeah.
And um, even the fact that you just
asked that question, even if there's zero
discernible impact, it's still worth,
you know, just being ahead of the game
and having that, that question
Christ Jones: And, and yeah, for, for
some teenagers, you know, this will
have negligible impact for others.
It's gonna be really significant.
Yeah.
Yeah.
AL James: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Alright.
Um, anything else to say about leaders?
Christ Jones: Yeah, I think it's probably
just worth thinking through that, you
know, again, because this is significant.
For some of the young people.
I think we need to be
mindful of how we model this.
Um, you know, modeling and even talking
about, uh, maybe it's an opportunity
for youth leaders as well to, to
reflect on their own social media usage.
Um, parents and parents too.
Um, as a parent, I'm very
aware of that myself.
Um, yeah.
So I think, you know, this,
this provides a space for a
little bit of self-reflection.
AL James: Yeah.
So we talked about,
um, parents just there.
Let, let's, let's talk a little
bit more broadly about families.
Christ Jones: Yeah, yeah,
AL James: What, what do
families need to be thinking
Christ Jones: oh, look, I, I think
what, when we, when we think about it
from a youth ministry point of view,
we probably need to recognize that, I
suspect different families will probably
approach this in a different ways.
Uh, I can imagine that there'll
be some families who'll be very
black and white that come December
10, this is the new law, and Yep.
You know, off you go.
No, no more use.
Um, I suspect there will be others who.
Might, you know, look to take
a bit more of a staggered
approach if that's possible.
We don't, we don't, maybe that's
not gonna be possible depending
on how it's implemented.
Um, uh, you know, some parents might
kinda just leave it up to their
teenagers to self-administer or
think through what that looks like.
And I suspect we would potentially
even have some families who might,
uh, you know, even in the encouraging
ways to get around the ban.
Um, so I think we just need to
recognize that different families
will approach it differently.
And as, as you said before, as
youth ministries, we are looking
to partner with families in the
discipleship of their children.
And so, you know, we are, we're
not looking to take the role
of parents in, in this space.
Uh, but I think we also have
an opportunity, um, to speak
to families about this.
Uh, I suspect that a lot
of parents are feeling.
Uncertain in how this is gonna roll
out or how they should be talking
about this with their teenage children.
So I think we've got a
great opportunity here.
AL James: Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, yeah, talking about
opportunities, this is gonna bring
some opportunities, isn't it?
I mean, you know, like o obviously
you've just talked about the opportunity
to actually get in front of families.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, that's a really great opportunity.
Any, anytime that, anytime that it's easy
to get in front of families and parents.
Yeah.
I think that's like, you take that
with, with, um, you know, both hands.
That's
right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What are the other
opportunities this might bring?
Christ Jones: Yeah, I, I, I mean I, at a
broad level, I think it gives us excellent
opportunity to encourage positive things.
Um, and I think, and, and so I
think we need to be mindful of,
you know, I guess the language
we use, how we talk about this.
Uh, you know, if we are always talking
about this, these changes in kind of the
negative sense, then I think that's gonna
breed a negative attitude towards it.
And, and regardless of our own
personal feelings about whether
this is a good or a bad thing, I
think we should lean towards, okay.
What are some of the positives
that that can come out of this?
Um, uh, I, I think, as I said before,
you know, I, I think it would be
wrong, or we do our, our young people a
disservice if we don't address it at all.
You know, if we just go, all right,
that's come in December 10th,
youth group's not kicking off till,
you know, first week in February.
I hope everything's just
resolved itself by then.
I, I, I don't think
that's a good approach.
I, I think it's worth addressing
and, and thinking through.
Um, I, I think some of the opportunities,
you know, it, it may well be that
young people, whether they articulate
it this way or recognize it, you
know, perhaps they're gonna be
seeking community in a new way.
Come the start of next year.
Uh, if they're finding that a lot of their
current social relational connections
happen through that online space, uh,
uh, I think there's, there's gonna be
an opportunity to, to help show just how
good youth group is, just how good meeting
together in Christian community is.
And, and maybe for our, our young
people who are already plugged into
youth group, they already know that,
but perhaps it's helping them see
that maybe some of their friends
who don't actually have a, that good
face-to-face friendship, social community.
That's right.
This is a, perhaps an easy, this maybe
there's been no better time to invite
your friends to youth group because
there'll be something there that they're
looking for, that we know that that youth
group has, has a great space to offer.
Yeah.
AL James: Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it, it's, and it's, it's,
that's really, it's really, um,
a, a great thing to think about
that actually here's an embodied
community that is shaped by Jesus.
And that kind of thing is
great for young people to be
invited into.
when they're looking for
community potentially.
Yeah.
Um, uh, but also I guess that there's
this idea, um, you know, of, of, you
know, providing opportunities or helping.
Deepen relationships
within the community
that's already there.
Yeah.
How, how does that connect
to kind of gospel priorities?
Like, 'cause you know, we're not parents,
We're not,
um, we're not kind of, uh,
developmental psychologists.
We're not, you know,
like that's right.
Why do we care about relationships, um, in
Christ Jones: in ministry?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, well, I think, I mean, one, one
of the, one of the key reasons is that
we know that good effective discipleship
happens best in the context where there's,
there's good relationships, right?
Where, where young people know
and feel that they're welcomed
and accepted and, and a part of a.
AL James: a,
Christ Jones: Embodied community.
Yeah.
AL James: Both by leaders,
but also by peers.
Christ Jones: Absolutely.
Both of those things, that's the
context in which good long-term
discipleship happens, you know?
And so I think, you know, this is perhaps
an opportunity as we come into a new
year for youth leadership teams, maybe
just to do a little bit of an audit, a
review of, for example, you know, what
happens at youth group on a Friday night?
Maybe we are doing great discipleship.
May maybe, do we need to just
go, you know, do a little review?
Do, are we providing space for relational
connection and investment there?
Or are we so over programmed with
things that might be excellent,
you know, great games, great bible
teaching, good small group discussion.
They might be excellent things,
but, but do we, do we allow
good relational space in there?
'cause actually that's the
context in which those good
discipleship outcomes happen.
AL James: Yeah.
Jesus shaped community does
a lot of heavy lifting in
the, in the formation
of young people's souls.
Right?
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah,
Christ Jones: so I, so I think,
yeah, we've got great opportunity.
Um, you know, when, when it comes to
it, we, we want young people to know the
joy of being in a Christian community.
We know that.
Uh, but helping connect them into
that and, and helping them see that
AL James: Yeah.
It's
Christ Jones: be really fruitful.
AL James: And in some ways, I mean, it's
a sort of, you know, it's this kind of,
um, you know, place of, uh, uh, game
of, of chase and catch kind of thing.
'cause
at one level
like you, you look at the
gospels and you go, yes, embodied
community, you know, relationship.
That's actually what we designed for, you
know, God's, God's designed us that way.
Um, and I, I think it's, it's arguably
you could kind of say, well, like, church
follows culture as well as sometimes
leads culture, but church follows culture.
The government now has kind of led in
this space.
Yeah.
You know, in, in, you know, in the world.
And you know, again, whether it's the
right way to do things or not, but it's
kind of, it's pushing society is pushing
a little bit further forward in that
space and the church has an opportunity
to kind of go, oh, right, yeah.
This is this thing that
we always believed in.
Let's double down
Christ Jones: it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
That's right.
Yeah,
AL James: absolutely.
So, and I mean, have, um, you know,
what about the place of mobile phones?
Christ Jones: Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean that's worth considering too.
A few youth ministers that I, I've
chatted to over the last month or so
have, have talked about the fact that.
They've already this year started
experimenting with making youth
group, um, a, a place that is, uh,
where there are no mobile phones.
And it's interesting, they've all said
that, you know, that's challenging
at first for about, you know, the
first month, first term or so.
But actually over time, uh, youth
and leaders have actually really lent
into it and now really appreciate that
in, in their context, youth group is
a place where they're not actually
having to worry about or think about
phones and, and that connectedness.
Um, and, and they're seeing
really good things from that.
So, look, it's, you know, it may
not fit every context, but, uh,
yeah, it's worth considering.
Um, I, I know a bunch of.
Camps that are, you know, either youth
camps or external camps that are, that
are leaning that way as well, really
going, let's, let's lean into this.
Go mobile phone free on
camp or, or at youth group.
Uh, yeah, it's hard, it's different.
Uh, but actually it, it seems that in
a lot of those spaces that's leading
to really good relational outcomes.
AL James: So, Jay, this has been
such a fascinating discussion,
um, and I think really timely
and really helpful for people.
Um, I just wanna ask you like, you
know, what is the best next step?
You know, you've got, like, you've
got a reasonably, you know, a
broad audience here, both youth
ministers, but also kids ministers.
But thinking particularly about the youth
space, where it's gonna be, I guess, most
pertinent, like what's the next step?
Like an actionable next
thing
you can, that you can ask youth ministers
to, to at least just, just do this.
Yeah.
Christ Jones: Yeah.
I, I think the best thing to do is to,
uh, take some time as a youth minister
and probably with your youth leadership
team, uh, to think about how you're
gonna talk about this with young people
as a team, with families, particularly
as we come into term one next year.
Uh, that's gonna be the crunch point.
Uh, for those that have got a, a January
summer camp, uh, you, you're gonna
wanna do some thinking perhaps com
perhaps camp is a great space to start
having some of those conversations.
Uh, but start to think through
how you're going to pastorally
help disciple young people through
this significant cultural change.
AL James: Cj, super helpful conversation,
um, looking to see how it rolls out and
maybe we'll have another podcast
in
Christ Jones: right.
Maybe six months from now we'll
have completely different ideas.
AL James: Yeah.
Hey, thanks so much mate.
Christ Jones: Thanks Al.