The Talent Bar

Jen Paxton just got promoted to SVP of People and Talent at Roofr, and she's earned it: an opera degree, three startup acquisitions, and a co-founded company (also acquired) later, she's built a people function that runs on urgency without sacrificing quality. In this episode, she talks with Colleen about why speed and momentum are everything once a candidate is in process, how "going slow to go fast" with hiring managers at the intake stage actually shortens time to hire, and why quality of hire is never one single metric. Jen also opens up about what it took to earn a seat at the leadership table as a people leader, and how her opera background sneaks its way into her day job more than she'd like to admit.
 
Takeaways:
  • Momentum is everything once a candidate is in process. The high they feel after a great interview fades fast, and any lull in communication opens the door to doubt, so recruiters need to keep things moving instead of letting a hiring manager sit on a decision.
  • If a hiring manager is on the fence about a candidate, that's usually a no. Jen coaches managers to move on rather than let decision paralysis drag out a process and risk keeping a good candidate warm for too long.
  • Slowing down at the very start of a search saves time later. A real intake conversation, or even having a hiring manager source three LinkedIn profiles themselves, forces them to name what they're actually looking for instead of defaulting to "I'll know it when I see it."
  • Quality of hire isn't one number. Jen looks at ramp-up time, first-year turnover, nine-box placement after the first review cycle, and a simple gut check she asks every manager at 60 days: would you rehire this person?
  • Knowing the business, not just headcount, is what earns people leaders real influence. Jen credits understanding company strategy and speaking the language of the leadership team with the trust that helped land her promotion to SVP.



Quote of the Show:
  • "Not every culture is for a person, not every company is." - Jen Paxton

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Creators and Guests

Producer
Nicholas Korianski

What is The Talent Bar?

This is The Talent Bar. Join Colleen Gallagher for candid conversations with talent leaders as we explore the work that drives them, the lessons they've learned, and how they're helping people find careers they love. The show is sponsored by Lavalier, an interview intelligence platform built by Textio.

ROTR - Jen paxton
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[00:00:00] This is Recruiters on the Rise, and I'm Colleen Gallagher. Join me for candid conversations with talent leaders as we explore the work that drives them, the lessons they've learned, and how they're helping people find careers they love. This show is sponsored by Lavalier, an interview intelligence platform built by Textio.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Recruiters on the Rise.

I'm so excited for our guest today. We also get to celebrate some, uh, some news about her role that we'll, we'll get into a little bit later. She has a degree in opera, has been through three startup acquisitions as the people and talent leader, and somewhere in the middle of all that, she co-founded a company that also got acquired.

Uh, she started in contingency recruiting, has built people teams, and, um, has some really exciting metrics in terms of how she's improved, um, time to hire and offer acceptance rate that we'll get into as well. She was just promoted, uh, to SVP of People and Talent [00:01:00] at Roofr. Jen Paxton, welcome to the show.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to chat

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: well, I love to start off with just asking folks like yourself, what's the one thing or one action that sets the best recruiters apart from the rest?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: honestly, one of the things I love about recruiting in general, and I think the best recruiters, has been the curiosity behind recruiting. Um, recruiting's so special because you really get to be like this matchmaker. Um, one of the,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Perfect.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: One of the people I idolized was like, it's like dating. You know, you get like, you have like two sides of this, and you get to put those two sides together. And when it, when it goes together perfectly, the, the high you get, the rush you get from that success, like there's nothing like it. I, I, I haven't personally found anything like it. So I think that level of like curiosity, that level of like persuasion, slight like negotiations, [00:02:00] storytelling, like all of those things kind of play a factor in it.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I, I guess in terms of, um, the curiosity piece, how does that tie into the urgency you think recruiters need to have? I know you've talked with me before about how, like, urgency and hustle is also something that you find, um, really important to have as a recruiter

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Yeah. I mean, I cut my teeth on the contingency side where you had to make sure you're moving very quickly and,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: really coaching that manager to move quickly because, you know, all like ki- speed kills all deals, right? And not to go into kind of too much of the salesy side of it, but it's really true because again, like that, that kind of endorphin rush that a, a candidate is getting, having that phone call with that hiring manager or that final round interview, wanna, you wanna feed on that high.

You wanna keep that momentum going. And if you, if you slow down or if that hiring manager kind of has this, um, [00:03:00] hiccup moment, that is only gonna potentially lead to uncertainty or maybe like hesitation on the candidate's side. So you wanna continue to have that momentum going, and a lot of times, you know, hiring managers don't always have the full perspective.

So it's really kind of the recruiter's job to, to give that manager that perspective and kind of that hustle, that urgency so that they don't, don't rest. You know? They don't

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Wait for it, 'cause even in this, even in th- this market where it's, it's still maybe an employer's market in a lot of cases, candidates are still picky.

You know?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: they're still like trying to make the best choice for themselves, and again, like you give them time to hesitate, they might. So you don't wanna

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah. I like the way you framed it, and actually I don't think anyone's talked about it this, in this way, but, um, keeping the momentum going and sort of like not getting that [00:04:00] sort of lull that happens when, when you lose the momentum. And o-one of the things, um, I mentioned in your, in your intro was about how you have, um, improved some of the metrics around time to hire and, um, for, I, I think from like 45 days to 30 days, and you have a 90%-plus offer acceptance rate.

How does that tie into this? Like, you know, what are some of the practical takeaways for people in terms of how you've been able to, to drive those improvements?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes, I hate to preface it by that, but it re- it's real, right? Um, sometimes recruiting can be seen as like a babysitter almost. You're like babysitting the hiring manager. And as I mentioned, kind of that urgency side of it, there's, there's this education as well, where manager also might be on the fence with a candidate, and my, my [00:05:00] education, kind of my guidance is usually, if you're on the fence, you're probably gonna be a no. should move on. Uh, because there's a lot of like decision paralysis where like

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: manager might like him and ha, and like, "I don't know what happens if this happens." And so you really want to get them over that hurdle. And sometimes, you know, hiring manager, a hiring manager can be like, "Well, what happens if like I miss them?"

And I'm like, "You'll, you'll get the next one," right? It's, it's a, it's a challenge, but it's something that I think we need to, we need to do more of because

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Mm-hmm.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: That can slow down your time to hire as well by a hiring manager, um, yeah, just like trying to keep a candidate warm for too long, right? It's a, it's a delicate balance, honestly, uh,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: You've seen the pendulum swing the other way where it's like the hiring manager is never fulfilled.

Um, I, I, I kind of recall back to like, um, one of my earlier startup days when I was [00:06:00] an IC recruiter and this hiring manager, I, I, I came into this role and the first thing I was introduced to was this hiring manager and like the, the thing I was told about them was, "Yeah, they're just never gonna be happy."

Like they, like they've been looking for this, like this sales leader in particular for like months and months. And I was like, "Well, why?" Like, what's causing this hesitation? Like, why has this role been open for this long? And I was like, yeah, a hiring manager might be like challenging to work with, but we, we got in there, we, we sat down, I had a lot of conversations with them on what are they exactly looking for, and found out where they were actually able to flex. And one of my like claims to fame, my like f- first like 60 days was getting them a hire in the door, where they'd been looking for like months for this person. It was like three or four months and I filled it within a month. And it was really kind of [00:07:00] what they're actually looking for and helping them to understand what they were looking for, 'cause Yeah. don't really know

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah. I think you've talked about this before when we talked previously. You talked about it as going slow to go fast with hiring managers. Um, can you say more about what, what that looks like in practice?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Yeah. So, um, at Roofr in particular, we do, um, a, a hiring kind of kickoff. And I think a lot of companies, this is like standard practice, right?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: doing this kind of kickoff to understand kind of the must-haves, the nice-to-haves kind of thing. Um, but sometimes hiring managers are like, "Why do I want to invest that time in the very beginning?

Like, I'll just... I'll know it when I see it." so many times, like the know it when I see it drags on forever, right? Because they might have seen a person and like, they almost fit, but they can't name why it's not a fit. Um, they'll be like, "I just need somebody who's stronger." And you're like, "Well, what do you [00:08:00] mean when you say stronger," right? And so a lot of those things can actually be resolved in that kickoff conversation, right?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Mm-hmm. Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: one of my earliest startups, I actually made hiring managers do homework, where I, I made them go on LinkedIn and find three profiles themselves, number one, to feel like the pain of sourcing, but really to hone in on like, why do you like this profile over this other profile?

Like, tell me, tell me why.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: and it gets them-- Again, it just gets them thinking in the right direction of, what am I actually looking for? What is the actual talent gap I'm trying to fill?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah, I know it when I see it as code for I have no idea what I want.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I think that's the toughest thing about hiring is it's not an exact science.

There's such an art to it. It is so very nuanced, and have so many opportunities to fail like, think that you failed too,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: you know, hiring managers fall [00:09:00] into a lot of pitfalls because of that

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I love the example or, or the exercise of go find three profiles of people. What would you say to people who say, "I could never get a hiring manager to spend the time doing that"?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: There's a lot of storytelling and like wh- the, like the why behind it,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: it doesn't always work either. Like, you have to, you have to have a hiring manager who really understands why, like why they're doing the exercise, which there is some like education on why you can tell them to do this. Um, I have also, for those hesitant hiring managers, we're gonna do a meeting anyway, right?

We're gonna, we're gonna have a conversation about what you're looking for. That's when we both jump on LinkedIn together. I share my screen, I type in kind of the job title that they might want, and we, you know, we might go through some profiles that way. 'Cause sometimes thing to do is to have that hiring manager carve out the time,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Mm-hmm.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Right?

And so that kind of, [00:10:00] again, kind of comes back to that babysitting mentality of, I'm just gonna sit down with you. Like, I'm gonna take your time, but it's gonna be a very impactful and valuable time. And again, it is gonna save you the time in the long run of having to go through trial and error, trial and error, we get you that person that you really need so much quicker.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah, and I think, um, you know, as a hiring manager, what I've experienced in the past where I think some of that goes wrong, and when I think about, like, what sets a good recruiter, uh, the best recruiters apart from the rest is coming to that meeting with some prep. Because I've definitely come to some of those meetings where they're like, 'So you want to hire this person?'

Like, what does that even mean? And I'm like, 'I, I don't want to have to explain to you what a senior financial analyst is,' for example. Like, it's so-- I think it's so important to come to some of those meetings and, and have some point of view. And if you can't get the hiring manager to find three profiles, maybe you find the three profiles and say, you know, [00:11:00] 'Is this along the right lines or give me some feedback,' right?

Because I think, you know, I often have heard, um, you know, a lot of times, and, you know, we have a feature in our platform that looks and helps with making sure your, your intake call is as strong as it can be. And I've had a lot of people push back and say it's a strategy setting call. And I actually think that's so true, right?

It's you have to be able to align with the hiring manager during that call on the, like, what is the hiring strategy?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: But also to your point, um, about really knowing the role, and you, you really nailed it. You're like, "I don't want to have to explain to you what, like a f- like why I need a financial analyst." is also having a recruiter know kind of the function that they're recruiting for. I think that's why there's sometimes like, especially like bigger companies where they'll do like an HRBP or like a recruiter kind of all in one, it's because they're already entrenched in that team as

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Don't have to re- [00:12:00] you know, reinvent the wheel every time too.

You really understand how that whole team is made up and how that person would really fill the gap. Um, there's, there's something special about that too

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Do you think, you know, you talking about how you got your early start in recruiting, you were on, on the, in a contingency role. Um, how do you think that has, has helped you? And I'm, I'm asking kind of a leading question 'cause I, I do feel like some of the best recruiters I know also have started out either with an agency, whether it was, um, you know, contingent or retained.

but there's something you learn, I think, in that, And I'm, uh, that's my opinion. I'm curious to get yours as somebody who's, who's done that.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I'm probably very biased because, like, I have, I have seen the success of my, of my story, and I've actually hired a good amount of people that have come out of the agency side of this as well. the contingency side is really hard, and [00:13:00] I think, again, because I, because I'm a bit biased on this end, there's so many...

You don't, you don't get as many chances with a hiring manager either.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: You have to prove your worth almost immediately. a lot of this, a lot of the times that I was working on these roles, they were new companies that I had never gone into before, new hiring managers that I was just establishing a relationship with. so I had to build value very quickly, and that actually took a lot of front-end research, knowing kind of what the company does in advance, knowing, you know, the hiring manager, who are they connected to, what have they hired for before, um, how big is, potentially is their team. So really knowing kind of the ins and outs of it, again, helps you build that trust very, very quickly.

And then again, going back to that whole speed side of this, you know, I have to prove my value immediately. If I don't, um... So the very first, the very first kind of staffing firm I was [00:14:00] in, it was like the Wild West, and so no one person owned a company, and so double-edged sword. Like, this is actually why I left that company, but like, also, you know, it,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: You learned a lot. Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Learned a, learned a lot. Um, but it was one of those things where, like, if I couldn't find that person, like, a person on my team could go to that hiring manager and give them another person. So it was very... It, it led me to be very competitive on that end, because I also, I didn't wanna lose. Like, I just couldn't... There's not one in my body that says, like, "I'm okay losing at this point." Like, I just couldn't. Like I... That was not an option, right? Um, which I think just kind of led me to all of the things that have happened in my career afterwards, right? Like, just not-- losing is not an option. Um, but I think that, like, it just instilled in me this, yeah, this, like, urgency, this, like, competitive nature, this, like, let's get the speed to value as quickly as possible because if not, I'm gonna lose out. And of

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: livelihood, so [00:15:00] like, if I didn't, if I didn't make the money then, you know, wasn't gonna be able to pay my rent.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I know there are some people that tend to push back on the idea that recruiting is like sales, and it sounds like where you land on that is, is that it's similar

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: In, in a lot of ways, it is very similar to sales. Um, there is, uh, like that relationship management side of it, uh, but again, in, in any kind of market, when you want a candidate to accept an offer, when you want that hiring manager hopefully to, to have that candidate, there is that level of like persuasion and, and negotiation on that end. It's not, it's not like a note-taker admin kind of thing. Like, that's in like a high volume where like, I don't know, like the stakes aren't as high potentially, but

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: a lot of, a lot of the companies I've worked for, you know, they're hiring, you know, a handful of people here and there, and anyone that is a mishire is detrimental to the company.

Like it, [00:16:00] it, you know, kneecaps our success. So you have to kind of get it right

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I guess, uh, pulling on that thread a little when you talk about, um You know, how important it is to hire and making sure that you're hiring the right people. Um, I'm curious how you think about this now in your, in your even more elevated role and as a people leader. You know, what are some of the things that you talk about with the leadership team in terms of like a talent scorecard?

Um, what metrics do you talk about? What resonates with, with the rest of the executives and the board?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: so sometimes it is, uh, based on kind of risk and finding somebody who has done that job before. Uh, and that could be very, very specific where it's the, like, specific programming language that they have had before. Uh, but I also would say it almost comes down to the environment that they were in previously as well. It is a recognized [00:17:00] bias of my own, but I also have kind of the data to back it up at this point, where I have been in startups and I have seen hiring managers take a chance on someone who has been in, like, a bigger company, like more corporate, more process, and it has gone poorly almost every time.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Hmm

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: And so that's another thing that we talk about is like, what, what is kind of the candidate-- like the ideal candidate profile for

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: And it's not just the, the hard skills and the soft skills, if you will, but it's also like what is their lived experience? Like, what is the environment that they have thrived in before? And what have they not, like what have they not liked being in too?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Mm-hmm.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Because again, like if you're not used to chaos, but you say, "Yeah, ambiguity," it, it almost never works. I-- and I'm the, I, I'm the kind of product of this, of like, I love chaos. Like, bring me a messy problem, bring me something that doesn't have a clear [00:18:00] answer and like, I'm gonna feed off of it. But if you put me in like a bank, I'm gonna-- I'm probably gonna die of boredom. Like it will-- I, again, like I-- and no, no offense to banks. Love

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: But like, it's just not my environment. Like, not every culture is for a person, not every company is,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Exactly. Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Again, that, like that matchmaking side of it too.

Yeah

coming down to that ideal candidate profile is really important. And so we work together on the hiring manager on that scorecard of what are the hard skills, maybe some of the soft skills as well. But at the leadership level, we're thinking about, you know, what is our kind of ideal candidate profile? You know, what are the kind of competencies we wanna have as a whole company?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: and how is that gonna impact our business?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I know, um, one metric that tends to get floated around a lot is this, this concept of, of quality of hire. And my, my, you

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Yeah.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Opinion is that there's, like, not one single number that [00:19:00] you can look at. And so I'm curious, like, how do you evaluate for that? What are some of the metrics you look at in terms of just overall effectiveness of your talent acquisition organization?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: We are looking at a few different factors, and you're, you're right, there's not kind of one silver bullet. Um, there has to be a few things kind of compiled on top of each other. So I think the first kind of natural one is looking at the kind of new hires ramp-up time like, how, how quickly have they actually gotten up to actually doing the job. Um, that's really important. Um, and then also we're looking at their turnover too. if they get... If they have a turnover within that first year, that to the quality of hire, and actually where the, the people team, the talent team have a great partnership, where the people team is usually on the receiving end of this termination that we're gonna do.

The Yeah looking for kind of-- it's almost, like, hungry [00:20:00] for that education of where did we potentially go wrong,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Mm-hmm.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Right? And so that's where you can leverage kind of those powers together. that feeds into the quality of hire. And then the other thing I look at, which goes into more of the performance management side as well, is after, like... So the companies I've been in, we usually do, uh, you know, a biannual performance review process where we will also plot out a nine-box too. And so I'm looking at kind of the employee's tenure and also their placement on the nine-box. Um, I'm wanting all those new hires to be in, you know, that top corner as

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yep.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: If they're in that top corner, especially in that first round for them, so after that, that three-month mark, after, you know, we feel like they've ramped, is a successful quality of hire for us.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: One of the things you mentioned is ramp-up time, and obviously that's easier to understand at certain roles like sales, for example. You can look at, you know, quota attainment pretty easily. [00:21:00] Ho- is it, is it that nine-box and performance management process that you look at for other, um, other aspects?

Is it some sort of manager survey? Like, how do you actually look and quantify if, if, you know, again, this is something that often ends up being sort of a little bit more qualitative than quantitative, but curious how you approach that.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: There's also in the manager check-ins that we do. Um, so we're, we're actually moving away from... We were doing a, uh, a three-month check-in with the employee and the manager, and we're moving actually to a 30-day check-in with the employee, a 60-day check-in with the employee and the manager, and then a 90-day check-in as well with the employee and the manager. And at that 60-day mark, that's when we ask the manager, "Would you rehire this person?"

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Mm-hmm.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: And it's a good, it's a good bellwether of, you know, did we do, did we do our job on the talent side? Like, is there something we could do to improve? And if they're saying no, that's when we're digging in more to, well, why, like, why would you not hire them again? [00:22:00] Um, the other thing that I'll do, and this is more on the HRBP side that we'll, we'll coach managers on, is if we are getting to that kind of termination, um, very early on, so like first, we'll say like first six months that a person's been in the company, that's when we're actually coaching the manager on like, were there any even yellow flags that you saw in the interview process that might have alluded to this, right?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Because sometimes, the manager needs time to almost reflect and think about it too, and they may be able to recall something from the interview process. Um, maybe they didn't put it in their notes, but they were like kind of hesitant, or maybe they felt pressured to hire quickly, 'cause the business needed them to. So there's a lot of, like, a lot of threads you can pull on there, and it... You really just start by asking a lot of questions

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: what about, you know, I, I, I feel like recruiters all have the experience of watching a hiring manager hire somebody that you know is not gonna work out in [00:23:00] the role. And I was actually s- I was talking with a friend of mine this morning who's a chief people officer, and, you know, she was telling me how one of the biggest pieces of advice she got from her, you know, mentor 15, 20 years ago was in the HR function, you are there to support decision-making processes for the functional leaders, but it's not your decision to make.

You just have to be a good partner to outline the risks and, and possibilities around it. And so, you know, how do you think about those situations where you're in, like, a very specific example where you know somebody's hiring the wrong person, and especially in your role... Sorry, this is a very long question.

But obviously in your role where you're, you know, you span both talent acquisition and performance, uh, you know, uh, talent management performance, uh, of the team. Like How do you get through a situation like that and, and how do you, um, move forward?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I love this [00:24:00] question, but I also-- I would push back a little bit on the support side of this, 'cause I would agree, yes, we're there to like and help, but we're also there to advise and give perspective.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yes

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: And if you are embedded in the business and know very much what that function is doing, And also like if it's in your gut like, "Oh my gosh, this person is the wrong hire." Um, I haven't been able to do this successfully very often, but it has happened a handful of times. So like it's-- you can't always turn the ship around. Um, and definitely like there's a few I-told-you-so moments that I have had

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Career that I'm like, I don't-- I was like, "How am I tactfully gonna say I told you so without coming off as this?"

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Because

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: like some of the ones you're like, "It's so obvious to me. Like I could spot this a mile away." Like why would-- Like what's in the [00:25:00] manager's head, right? And so that's when you get into like, why do you think this person is the, the best person for this role? Can you tell me like how you see success happening here?

How would they work collaboratively with other people?" Like

you poke, poke, right? And you really get them to understand where you're at. Um, some managers as well, you can be very direct with. really, it just, it depends on the manager on that. like, "I understand why you think that this person might be a good fit for this, this, and this reason. From my perspective and all of the experience I've had with them, not to mention, you know, my 15 years of experience in recruiting and really sussing out just people in general, these are the hesitations I have, and I want to go through each hesitation and see, one, did you pick up on any of this in your conversations with them? Or do you see this being a hindrance to the [00:26:00] team or the business?" 'Cause if you tie it back to that business perspective or like that business outcome, might persuade them just enough.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: But some of the other ones, like that train has already left the station and you're just gonna have to, I, I hate to say it, like clean up the mess when it's over too, which again, I have done plenty of in my career as well.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah, and I think the way you framed it is, is definitely more accurate than what I said in terms of the-- it, it-- you are there to be a strategic advisor, and I like the advice you're giving around, like, let's just break this down a little and ask some, you know, um, some probing questions. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's the hiring manager's decision to make, right?

Um, and, and yes, there are some, some instances where you just have to clean up the mess, and I, I feel that a little on the, um, you know, I started my career in finance, and so I feel the same, the same [00:27:00] way, right? There are cer-certain things where it's like, I know we're not gonna get the return that you're saying.

We're gonna get, um, you know, this investment and it's your budget. Um, ultimately, like it's your decision to make, and there's only so much I can do to convince you, and I will be here to clean up the, you know, the pile of poop later. Um, and that's just a reality of every job, I think in, in some ways.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I have gone so, so extreme sometimes that it has like bent my work-life boundaries. Like, I have like not gone on vacation 'cause I knew that this was like, this crucial conversation was gonna happen and a decision was gonna be made. And I have the worst FOMO as well, like the worst. And so it, it has been like a, I'm just gonna pause my life for a minute to like solve this problem.

But it's also like I don't wanna have to clean it up later. If I, if I can, if I can

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: then I don't want to. So it's, it, it's a balance of

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Totally

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: ahead of it? Can this, can this be a real thing? Versus yeah, the cleanup side of it. 'Cause ugh, [00:28:00] Yeah phase. I

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I agree. Yeah. And I think it's really about building the rapport with the hiring manager, right? Like you were saying ear- like early on building, um, building that trust, building the rapport so they understand that it's not coming from a, um, you know, a place other than to make them successful, right?

'Cause I think that's where people start getting a little bit distrustful or, or, um, can just stop listening, right? As if they think that you're, coming at it with, you know, bad intentions. Although I, I, I rarely find that to be true, right? But I think it's m- it's, it's less about whether that's true and more about if that's the perception.

So,

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: One thing that just popped in my head as you were mentioning this was like, you're also kinda like one part hostage negotiator too, where like, like the w- like in a good way, but I don't know how to, how to say it in a good

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: like, if you can, if you can frame it as like you're both coming at it at the same problem [00:29:00] instead of, you know, you're coming at it from this way and they're coming at it from this way, if you can be like partners in it, it's, it's so much easier to solve as well.

Like, and it's all how you frame it. It's all in the communication side of this too.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Totally. Yeah, we both have the same... Both aligned on the ultimate goal, right? We wanna hire the best person into this role. That's the only reason that I'm pushing back here, 'cause I have concerns. Here they are, right? Just being very matter of fact, I think, about it and, and, um, does, does help it to resonate a little bit more, with the person you're dealing with.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Yeah

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: topics a, a little bit. You know, I mentioned in the opening you have a degree in opera. You talked about how you've been through a number of, been at a number of startups, um, co-founded a company. You know, that's, that's not the typical background, I should say, of, um, of an HR or a people leader.

So, like, t- tell us a little bit more about your background and how you've gotten to where you are right now

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I wasn't expecting to co-found a company [00:30:00] as well, and I'm still, like, shocked and surprised by it. Like, still. Like, I mean, it's over, but like it's, it's still like a thing, right? I think it starts off with when I started my career, I, again, I, I did not think I was gonna go into HR.

I did not think I was gonna go into recruiting, like none, none of those things, right? Um, so I didn't, didn't know what to expect, and I just kinda kept, I just kinda kept my doors and my like options open. I was like, "I don't know, maybe." Like I, I could do this. Like I, I'm, I'm pretty... I, I, I like to take risks, I guess. Um, I wouldn't, I guess I wouldn't have gotten to startups if I wasn't a little bit of a gambler on that end,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Um, but it was one of those things where I think... And this is why I'm, I'm coming back to like, I don't even real- like I can't even remember like I did this. But I'm like, "Oh, I did this. Yeah." sometimes you, sometimes, especially in like recruiting or HR, you might put yourself in like this little box too, and like this is... You, you think this is all... Like this is all you get, [00:31:00] right? And, and then you learn there's more out there, you kinda, yeah, you expand your scope or you kinda try this out over here a little bit and realize, oh, it's not, it's not that different, or like it's kinda cool.

You're not as intimidated by it as well. I mean, I, I feel like I'm seeing more, um, you know, more people leaders in particular going into like COO roles than like CPO roles recently.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: that's an interesting trend to me, where I think when I first started out, I didn't think that was a-an option. Like there's a part of me that's probably like, well, like we're, we're fluffy, we're soft.

Like we're not like businesspeople, And like that, that's, that is a lot of the environment that I grew up in, um, and

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: my career in, is like we have this one function. We don't go into this. We don't go into this like, oh, HR is not in that business meeting. And you're like, well, [00:32:00] why not?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Right.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I think that's, where I have kind of pushed the boundaries a bit and like I love kind of where this evolution is going to, where no, no, no, we're, we're the strategic partner.

Like we should be in these meetings. I have a lot more, I would say like sway and, um, yeah, negotiation power being in, in more of these conversations, and people are actually leveraging me that way too.

it's been a win-win

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I mean, it's, it's interesting in so many ways, right? Because again, there have been a lot of parallels between, and at least in my experience, resonates a lot with what you're saying around like, you know, I sometimes have in my career have felt like patted on the head like, "Okay, thanks finance person.

Like go back to your, the back room where you like crunch numbers on your little, you know, keyboard and, and uh, and have your hat on." And um, I think the, the interesting thing about where we're at right now as well is So many [00:33:00] companies I think are-- I think companies are starting to realize that, like, the humans are actually the most important asset of their company.

And I know that seems like a lot of people would say like, "Well, duh, haven't they always been?" And it's like, I, I don't think actually a lot of, um, leaders have always thought about it that way. And I do think we're also at a very important point for people leaders, talent leaders, because, you know, when what was happening in the job market was happening a few years ago, where these companies were going out and hiring, especially, you know, very large companies were hiring like tens of thousands of people I think that there-- it's very likely that you had a little bit of talent erosion in terms of the quality because people were optimizing for speed And just naturally let quality fall to the wayside because that was just what was required.

And I, I do feel like in talking to a lot of people leaders and, and talent acquisition leaders now, [00:34:00] there's a much broader focus on we have to hire quickly. There are people still want people hired quickly, but we also have to hire with high quality because when you go from hiring, whether it's, you know, 100 people a year and you're now hiring 20, or you were hiring 10,000 a year and you're now hiring, you know, 3,000.

Like, as a business leader, the thing I think about so much, and I, I can't remember exactly how you said it earlier in our conversation, but like, you hire the wrong person, it can really tank your business, right? It can have an outsized impact. And so I'm curious from a, from an a-- you know, a people leader, like, how have you seen that evolution play out over the last few years?

Would you, um, agree with what I was saying? Like, or modify it in any way? Like, how are you seeing that... You know, you just got promoted in your organization, so obviously, like, they, they value people in people leadership roles. Like, how does somebody that [00:35:00] runs a function that has in the past been seen as sort of this like back office support really come into the fold as a, as a leader in the space?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I think, well, one, one thing I have done to really secure this is know the business. And this is sp- like, speaking with some of my peers and then also, like, speaking with some of the newer leadership that's been brought in, this isn't the norm apparently. And I was like, "Oh, I didn't even,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Mm-hmm.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I didn't even think that it wasn't a, a thing," because my mentality was, "Oh, I just wanna learn as much as I can."

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: And, and I think I do a better job under, again, making, making more decisions and advising if I understand kind of how does, you know, how does this one function over here work with this function over here? Like, how does our overall business strategy, you know, move forward, and how do we compare within the industry as well?

[00:36:00] So I think the first thing that I wanted to do potentially differently in these last few startups I've been at, especially in a leadership capacity, was understand kind of the ins and outs of the business. And I'm not gonna be seen as like that, that number one data person, but I am gonna be able to tell you at like a high level, like, "Here's why we're making these decisions and this kind of trade-off over here versus this over here." Um, I think that gives me more credibility. And then also, again, thinking about, uh, calling back to like the, that leader and like us tackling the problem together, that really helps us to tackle the problem together. If I'm like, "I'm, I'm with you in this seat," like, "We're

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Mm-hmm.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Gonna, do this together." Like I under- now I understand kind of the challenges that you're facing and like the obstacles you're having to overcome. So it makes sense that that would be, that'd be the case.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: would say.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I-- one of the questions I love to ask people in interviews [00:37:00] is, like, tell me how your company makes money And like, it's shocking how many people, especially in a sales role like, if you cannot articulate that and you've been in a sales role, then like we're, we're, um, we're probably-- it's probably not the right, you know, person to move forward with.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Yeah

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: you also get a lot of signal of like how people take it, right? Like, you could get people who are very like tactical, like, "We sell this and they pay," right? Versus, "Well, we are h- what is the, what is the actual job we're doing for that company and why?" You know, or for our customers and like why people are willing to in-invest their money and time with us.

Um, but I, I think it-- the reason I love it is it speaks to exactly what you're articulating, which is like knowing the business. How well has this person who has worked there for, you know, generally a couple of years, like how well have they figured out what the business is doing? And, you know, maybe [00:38:00] that's why they're unhappy at wherever they're at, or maybe that's why, you know, they're looking for something new.

Um, but I, I love to ask people that type of question 'cause I do think it speaks to exactly what you're talking about.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Feel like you could also gauge their, like, storytelling ability as well, because what I would wanna weave in is, like, the pain point that the company's trying to solve. it's again, like, what kind of pain is your customer having, and how does the problem... Like, how is your product actually, like, making, you know, their job, their company, like, what's, what's it doing for them, right?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah. Yep. Yep

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: a, it's such an integral part, and I also think you have to continue to talk to employees about that as well, because Mm-hmm. especially when, I mean, it's the summer months, so people... It's raining here right now, and it doesn't feel like summer at the moment.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: uh, but you know, sometimes in the, in the summer months or even just, like, in a slump, [00:39:00] employees need something to rally around.

They need to have that, like, that vision and that mission again. You know, they need to have kind of that thing of, like, why am I doing what I'm doing? And yeah, I'm probably doing it for a paycheck or, like, to fulfill... Like, to feel fulfilled with my career. But also, I do kinda wanna know, like, what, what are we building as a company too?

Like, how can we have that kind of team mentality?

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: It kinda all, it all feeds in together

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: okay, so before we go, you know, you graduated with a degree in opera. Um, we talked about this before. You still like to perform. Um, you do community theater, and you're on the boar- board of a performing arts center in your town or being built in your town. Like, what, what do you get out of performing that you don't get from your day job?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: artistic pleasure of singing and, uh, there's like a gratification of like being on, like being on stage and kind of getting to be goofy or like [00:40:00] dramatic or something where like... I will say HR people will never say this to a non-HR person potentially. So I'll preface with that, right?

But like,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: We're revealing some secrets. I love it. Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: back. But like sometimes, like you just want to be dramatic because you have dealt with some manager that is just crazy, and you're like, "What is wrong with..." Like you just want to be able to scream or like

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Up in the air or

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: stomp off or something. And I, and people will confess this eventually to you, but

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: That like you, you have so many emotions and things that like you are, you have a like poker face, right?

Like you don't

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: get that. And on the stage I get to have all of like, I get to play whatever character I want,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Love that

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: and it can be so fulfilling do

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I [00:41:00] love that. Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I feel like I can tie a lot of it into my day-to-day job as well, but not, not to that extent, I will

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. Okay, the closing question I like to ask my guests, um, if you could meet yourself one day after graduation, you know, you have that opera degree in hand, like what, what advice would you give yourself?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: It'd be so tough 'cause, like, I went for a master's as well in, uh, uh, in, at the Boston Conservatory, and like, but if I would've gotten to meet myself before I went for the master's, wonder if I would've said, "Move to Boston," or like, "Move to SF like, go join a startup immediately. Like, just go do it now.

Like, I know you love, I know you love music. I know you wanna do it, but like, you're gonna find, you're gonna find a passion in people that will pay the bills." Like,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: It'll

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: More than that, too.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: I wish I could've accelerated my career [00:42:00] by a few years. But again, like, I learned so much in grad school, too, so it's, it's hard to,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah. Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: To say what would happen on that end 'cause

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah. Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Everything, everything feeds in

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: I mean, you're doing pretty well. You just got a big promotion. Congratulations again on that. Um, uh, g- good stuff to celebrate. What are you gonna do to celebrate? Anything fun?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Um, I'm a big foodie, so I love to eat. So I'm gonna, um, I'm gonna have my family go out to dinner with me. We'll have some

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Nice

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: We'll have some really good food. Um, I think that's what I'm gonna do to celebrate. It feels real now, you know, 'cause it's been publicly posted, so I'm like,

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Well, that's, that sounds, that sounds amazing. I, I do love gif- gifting yourself with a good experience to help sort of cement it feels, feels like the right thing to do. So, um, well, thank you so much for joining. This has been such a fun discussion. I feel like time flies when you're having fun is, is a, is a correct and vintage adage that, that [00:43:00] is so true.

Um, but learned a ton, learned a ton from you. I love the, the storytelling around, you know, just having to know the business. I couldn't agree with you more on that, and I think it's such a key piece of advice for anyone, no matter their function, especially if they have any desire to continue to grow in their career and expand, um, their scope and responsibilities.

Like, you gotta know the business and, and that's sage advice.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Yeah.

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Me on. I'm so glad we

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: To talk

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah.

Same. If people want to connect with you, what's the best way to find you?

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: Uh, find me on LinkedIn, Jennifer Paxton. Um, there's only a few

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Awful

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: out there, I believe, so look for the

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Perfect.

jen-paxton_1_07-21-2026_153933: That's at Roofr, yeah

colleen-gallagher_7_07-21-2026_123933: Yeah. Amazing. Well, thanks, Jen, again for joining. Uh, this has been another exciting episode of Recruiters on the Rise. If you laughed or learned something new today, please tell a friend. Thanks everyone

And that wraps up another episode. Thank you for joining. For show notes and other episodes, visit us [00:44:00] at recruitersontherise.com. Recruiters on The Rise is sponsored by Lavaliere, an interview intelligence platform. Lavaliere goes beyond basic note-takers to improve your ability to assess candidates with AI-powered interview questions, summaries, and transcription.

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