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Join me, Jess VanderWier, a registered psychotherapist, mom of three, and founder of Nurtured First, along with my husband Scott, as we dive deep into the stories of our friends, favourite celebrities, and influential figures.
In each episode, we skip the small talk and dive into vulnerable and honest conversations about topics like cycle breaking, trauma, race, mental health, parenting, sex, religion, postpartum, healing, and loss.
We are glad you are here.
PS: The name Robot Unicorn comes from our daughter. When we asked her what we should name the podcast, she confidently came up with this name because she loves robots, and she loves unicorns, so why not? There was something about the playfulness of the name, the confidence in her voice, and the fact that it represents that you can love two things at once that just felt right.
Hey, welcome today.
I just wanted to start off by giving a bit of a trigger warning because today's episode we are covering some pretty challenging or tricky topics related to death
divorce.
I discussed a bit of my experience with suicide in my family.
So if that is going to be triggering for you, I would honestly recommend that you skip past this episode until or if you're ever ready
So just wanted to make sure that you know that so you can prepare yourself for this episode.
Welcome to Robot Unicorn, hosted by my parents.
Jess and Scott.
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Okay, let's get into uh what is hopefully not going to be too heavy my topic, but
It might be heavy.
It's a little bit heavy, so just a trigger warning, we're talking about today, explaining death, divorce, tragedy, tricky topics with our kids.
'Cause it's been something that has been requested of us and it's just an important thing to know how to do.
All right, let's just dive right in.
I think most parents have had a moment of dread when they realize they have to explain something
really tough to their child, whether it's the death of a pet, a divorce, or even something scary they're seeing on the news.
From your perspective, what's the biggest mistake we as
loving and well-intentioned parents tend to make in those initial moments.
I think one of the biggest mistakes we make is trying to fix the problem right away for our kids.
It's like jumping in with like, we just don't want them to be sad or we don't want them to hear anything awful.
So I think we do two things.
We either try and fix it for them, which there's some things in life that just can't be fixed, right?
Like death, someone dies, like
it just is sad, right?
And so we can come in with all of these sayings or all of these things like, oh, you know, they're in a better place or they're happier now or whatever.
They're not feeling pain anymore.
They don't feel pain or it was for the best or well, whatever we say to our kids to try and make them feel better.
But sometimes in these very tricky situations
it just has to be sad for a little while.
Like same with divorce, right?
Like if you try and tell your child like, oh, it'll still be the same.
Like you'll still see us both a lot and nothing really is gonna change.
It's just that you'll go to different houses or whatever.
They
see past that.
Like they know that there's gonna be a sadness to it.
And I think don't fear that sadness.
Know that your child has to feel sad about it and they have to let out their tears about it in order to process and make sense of the hard thing that's happening.
So I'd say that would be the first thing.
And then the second kind of mistake I see people making is overexplaining.
So I what do you mean by that?
Like we want to explain things at an age-appropriate level, let's say
But sometimes because we are also frazzled and we're also having a hard time with whatever it is, we just like verbally dump on our kids like all the information that has led to this point.
Like let's say about divorce
It's okay to say, you know, let's say dad and I, we have been arguing a lot, we've been trying to make it work, and we've decided that
what's best for you guys is that we live separately.
You know, saying something like that is totally fine.
But if you go Yeah, your dad
doesn't know how to be nice and he always is saying this and this and this and that's really bothering me and you know I w tried so hard to make it work but dad couldn't do it and da da da and like we just get because we're frazzled and we don't like the situation that's happening, right?
Or
Yeah, your grandma, you know her.
She always smoked and I asked her so many times to stop smoking and but to say that to a five year old who can't really comprehend what smoking means or why that made their grandma die, like I think
Well does that make sense at any age though?
No, I mean like you can talk to like two adults and vents to the other adults about it, right?
But when you have a child
we do have to be mindful of how much information we're giving them about the tricky thing, making sure it's age appropriate and that it's not just a result of like our own like we're trying to process it with them.
And that's why we're giving them so much information.
Do you think it's possible?
I mean you're kind of saying this, but it's possible to be too honest?
Because I feel like a lot of the recommendations and even in the research it suggests that you should be honest with your kids, but what does that actually mean?
So you're saying it is possible to be too honest, I'm assuming by what you've just said.
But I'm thinking about the research that points to the need for simple concrete language for preschoolers versus more abstract thinking in older kids.
So what does that look like?
Yeah, and I I wouldn't say the problem is being too honest.
I'd say the problem is just too much information.
Like there might be a time and place as your child gets older and has more abstract thinking.
where you're gonna give them more information, right?
Like I'm thinking about a divorce, that type of situation.
When your child's five, you might not give them all the details as to why you split with their other parent, right?
Like they might just need to know we weren't able to get along or or whatever it was, right?
They don't need to necessarily know everything.
So you're still going to give them an honest answer, but you're just not going to give them all the details.
As they get older and they start having the ability to think more abstractly and they're asking more questions, you can still be honest, right?
So you can get start to give them more information, being very mindful of the way that you're talking about their
co-parent, right?
So I'd still want to make sure that you're not trying to process your own feelings with your child, like putting them in the role of like, now your child has to be your therapist kind of situation.
I get the feeling though that that is in a perfect world.
That's what parents would do, but I feel like it's way too emotionally charged for a lot of parents to not do
I don't know.
I feel like that happens quite often where parents will use or say things to their kids that maybe they shouldn't be saying to them.
Yeah.
Mostly because of their own hurt and experiences that they've had.
Let's say in a situation of divorce.
Right.
I mean we've seen that in our own life when you and I have gone through hard things, right?
And then your child starts asking you questions.
And if you're feeling hated about that hard thing.
It's easy to get passionate and be like, yeah, cuz da like and like start explaining things to your child.
So I feel like you have to be mindful of just because you want to tell them things and just because they're asking doesn't mean that they're ready to hold all of the information.
So I'm gonna go off script here and I'm gonna ask a question, actually, of something that I did with our oldest recently.
So she
a few weeks ago was asking me about she knows that my grandfather committed suicide or he died because of something he did to himself on purpose.
But she was asking more, like what what did he do?
And
And I actually she's only eight, but I felt like she was mature enough to actually know what happened.
Yeah.
And she had a lot of questions, so I explained
He tied a rope up into the shed and made it so that he wasn't able to breathe and then he died because of it because I didn't know that you told her all this.
Yeah.
This was only two weeks ago, not even.
But she was asking all kinds of questions about it, and I feel like
Because it's not a situation that she has lived through.
She was able to hear a bit more of it.
Versus like if this was someone she actually knew.
Like my grandfather
did this when I was a kid.
So she has never met him or anything like that, right?
So I felt like in that situation it was okay, but maybe that was being too honest, I don't know.
Yeah, it's hard.
I feel like she's at the age where eight, she can start to handle a little bit more of these tough pieces of information as long as you're being calm and you're not trying to use her as like
Comfort me, you know?
No, right.
No, what I was actually what I asked her was actually like what do you think about that?
How does that make you feel?
Yeah
And she's like, oh, that's really sad that someone would feel like they don't want to live anymore.
Yeah.
She was pondering it and then asked me a few more questions.
And like I even explained that me and my siblings were there.
when it happened and everything too and what we heard and experienced at that time too.
'Cause she's been asking for years.
Yeah.
About that
She's been wanting to know what happened.
But I felt like she was finally old enough to be able to hear it without taking it on
And for it to fill her mind constantly and for it to kind of scare her as it to most people.
I think if you said the same thing to our five-year-old, she wouldn't be able to handle that at all.
Like that would not go well
So I think knowing your child, I mean it's maybe more detailed than I would have given her, but I also know that she's quite composed when it comes to these kinds of things.
Whereas
let's say our more sensitive child.
I Yeah, it might take her a lot longer for me to want to have that conversation with her.
I could see her being much older.
before she's ready to have that kind of conversation just because of her personality and the way she would just so deeply take that upon herself.
Like I think she would carry that
very very heavy whereas our other daughter she's pretty good about hearing things compartmentalizing them and like moving forward.
Yeah and again in this situation it's not someone
That she knows it all.
If it was her grandma, you know, I feel like that would be totally different.
But yeah, I think that's a very good
descriptor of like how to handle that?
Like you were calm, you were composed.
She was asking the questions.
Yeah, we're just on a walk.
Like we were just walking around our neighborhood and
I don't know why what spurred her on to ask that question.
But anyways, she started asking me about it.
Because she's wanted to know for years, like like I've said.
And we just said, when you're older, I will give you more details.
And I guess that's the tough thing when it comes to, for example, your family.
Like we have a lot of tricky things that and we also don't want to be the family.
It's like, oh, we don't talk about ex.
We don't talk about grandpa, great grandpa, we don't talk about whoever, right?
We have really complex things that have gone on in your family that aren't necessarily age appropriate to talk about.
There's a lot of things they don't know that have happened, right?
For whatever reason, there's been either suicide or suicide attempts in multiple family members of mine.
So it's just suicide's been a big
theme in your family.
Yeah.
So it's something that they're gonna have to hear about eventually and I don't want to have it where we just shove it under the rug because I think that's what
historically has been the case for my family, right?
It's one of the cycles you're trying to break.
Yeah, I'm trying to make sure that we can have these conversations so we understand a bit more about
maybe why it happened and even if we don't fully understand why these things happened, we still feel comfortable actually having the conversation rather than just sweeping it under the rug.
How old were you when that happened with your grandpa?
I wanna say eleven or twelve.
Okay, so a little older than her.
Yeah.
But pretty close in age to what she is now?
Yeah, not too far off, yeah.
And I just I was just thinking that because when that happened, like
in terms of speaking about death and d difficult things, no one helped you process that.
No.
Right?
It was like, okay, this terrible, horrible thing happened to you and let's just keep moving forward with your life
Yeah.
So I just um like when we're talking about being honest, sometimes you it is better to be fully honest, like in that situation
I think people just thought, well, if we don't talk to Scott and all these little kids, he'll just forget.
He'll just move on.
Like he's a kid, he's resilient.
That won't bother him for too long.
Let's just say you do not
Forget those screams that you hear at in that moment.
You never forget it.
No.
And when you're a kid and no one's talking to you about it, because they're just like, oh, you're just a kid.
You'll be resilient, you'll be fine.
And that's the case with death or divorce or anything tricky.
We have to understand that our kids know when something's not right.
And there is a long-term effect on them, and there was on you
for not having those conversations.
And so that's when again you have to balance like honesty and what do they already know?
Right.
So like in this situation, you already knew what your grandfather did.
You already knew the impact that it had on your family.
Like you already knew all of these things.
So not talking to you about it and not being honest
It was pretty much the worst thing that people could have done because you already knew it all and then you just had to sit with it by yourself to process it and try and make sense of something that made no sense whatsoever.
Well, and then basically I th
Don't think this same night that it happened, but like the next night I was already like I went to whatever extracurricular thing I had already scheduled, so my other grandparents picked me up
the day of and then just started putting me back into all the same things without really ever talking about any of it.
Yeah.
And I mean and people will critique the way we talk to kids now and say we talk to them too much about their emotions
So and I think that there's this a balance, right?
We don't want to project like, oh, you should be anxious about this situation, right?
And I do think that sometimes that happens now because we're so aware of children's emotions that sometimes we like
project onto them.
But in this situation or in the situation of anything that we know is definitely going to impact a child and it's new and changes their life, we do need to talk to them about it
And I think in your situation, if someone had sat you down and been like, okay, tell me what happened from your perspective, let's talk about it.
What questions do you have?
Problem is I feel like a lot of people that were experiencing it at the same time as I was in that situation also had no idea how to deal with it, right?
So it's not like
You never had someone that could have coached you through because everyone was completely beside themselves in that situation, right?
So I don't say it's a fault of anyone in that situation because they were all also traumatized
That is where therapists can come in as like that neutral, but like that w therapists weren't talked about at that time.
Not in our small community there.
No, that would never have been the thought to cross anyone's mind.
But that is where like
In terms of the honesty conversation, I think we can ask our kids like, what do you know?
What do you think?
I think even with divorce, like I've worked with so many kids whose parents are getting divorced and they all have stories in their heads of
why their parents are getting divorced and sometimes their stories are totally off base, like not at all what happened.
But if no one is kind of talking to them about it, they'll make their own assumptions as to why this is happening.
I mean that's what I did with the situation with my grandfather.
And I would have dreams, nightmares, whatever, and it was mostly me trying to catch the person who murdered him.
Right
And that's kind of the story that I was telling myself at that point.
Like I knew that wasn't true, but it's very easy because you're trying to figure out like there's no way this can be the reason I have to
There has to be another explanation for it.
Yeah.
And I mean I was, let's say, eleven at the time, so it makes sense.
Yeah.
But I mean this situation's actually
a good example 'cause the way I would talk to, let's say, our five year old or a three year old, even between the two of them, is different than how I would talk to our eight year old, which I mean if they were in different positions, it might be slightly different ages that I would
have these conversations, but our three-year-old, you just explain very concretely, great grandpa is dead, he's not here.
He died a long time ago.
I mean she still likely won't even really understand that.
Our five-year-old, I might say, my grandpa didn't want to live anymore, so he died.
And maybe just leave it at that.
I might I might not even say that he did it himself
just because of who she is and knowing that she would probably take even that simple conversation on.
Mm-hmm.
And then her eight year old, because I know she's very curious and wants to understand a bit of my upbringing too
I explained quite a bit more.
Yeah, and I think even with suicide, like you have to be careful, like he didn't want to live anymore.
I think we're trying to get away from using that type of language.
Like
It's more talking about mental health and like Well yeah, I usually say his brain was sick.
Yeah.
Essentially.
And he didn't want to live anymore because of it.
But being concrete about things like death, dying, dead, like not fearing those words, I think are really important.
Sometimes we say things like going to sleep or whatever.
I think it's it is important to be clear
Because otherwise kids are left with like, are they coming back?
Are they not?
Like what's happening?
So I think clear communication is important.
One other reason why I think it was okay for you to say this to our eight-year-old and why I think
Sometimes we do delay difficult conversations too long is they might hear it from someone else.
Yes
For sure.
Especially if it's something like I was talking to someone recently whose parents went through a really hard time and everybody knew about it.
And everyone knew the reasons that they were going through a hard time and like all the things that happened.
But she as the child was never told.
And so she eventually found out what happened with her parents' relationship through a friend
Yeah, like m a bunch of years later.
A bunch of years later.
Right.
We also have to be mindful of that.
So like there's so many considerations to take in.
And I think it's the same for like divorce.
If there's like Yep
Something and you know everybody else knows.
There comes a point in time where it's like, okay, I better be the first one to tell my child about what happened
Still being age appropriate, consider it, but we don't want them to find out from some random friend who assumes that they just know because everybody else knows.
Yeah, right.
Okay, one thing that really stood out in the research was the advice, like I said, on to avoiding euphemisms.
So this is maybe a bit of a challenge to what you were saying about he lost his life to mental health issues, whatever
Phrases like grandma went to sleep or he lost his life or we lost him or whatever or your pet is going on a long trip, whatever, like all that stuff are quite common.
So
Why are these phrases problematic for a child's developing brain?
And maybe this is when they're little.
I don't know.
Like maybe that's the difference.
And again, it very easily could be that I have confirmation bias, because I like very
concrete and direct explanations for things?
I mean I think it's just easy for them to like not understand then, right?
Or sleep, like I don't like this sleep one because
I think even one time one of our kids heard that about someone who passed away, like, oh, they went to sleep, and they were like, wait, so when I go to sleep
it's possible I'm gonna die or whatever.
Like it's just very confusing.
Kids do better with just direct language because they already have these huge imaginations and their thoughts can run wild.
So if you're just clear, like let's say you lost a pet and you're like, kid
our pet died.
But then, and I'm sure we'll get here, offering some hope.
Like they can have hope, they can have a visualization of where they went.
Like you can plant a tree in their honor, whatever.
So I still have the hope that I think that's what people are trying to get out of the euphemism while also being clear.
Right.
You say to add hope, but then in the beginning you said sometimes things are just hard
Yeah.
So what's the difference though between providing hope and just accepting the fact that the situation is hard and dealing with that?
So I guess I would go through the stages then.
Like so first we're telling a child about something hard, right?
Yep.
And it's okay to cry with them.
Right.
Like I know even when my grandmother's passed away, like we shed lots of tears with our kids.
Right?
So first you might tell them what happened, you might all cry together.
Then you might talk about whatever questions that they have around the matter.
Answer your questions.
And that might take a little bit of time, right?
And maybe you look at old pictures, you find ways to like get out your tears, like you all need to let them out, talk about memories, all of those things are really important.
Why?
Because I think when we can allow our tears to come out, that's a huge way that we process grief and difficult things that happen in our life.
Sharing memories can be a way to be like, we're not gonna forget.
Like I'm talking about death specifically, but like we're not gonna forget this person.
Well, I could even see a separation and divorce if you
I'm sure there's gonna be lots of crying over that too.
And you can still share memories of happy times together too, I'm sure.
Yeah, like the kids that I've worked with who've
parents who have been divorced, who've been able to cry about it with their parents and like talk about the happy times they had together while also accepting or coming to accept that things are gonna be different now.
That is the most healthy way we can go about it
Right.
But sorry, my question on why was why is it important for you to do that with them though?
You were first explaining that you're crying and you're experiencing the grief kind of together with them.
So why is it important that you are doing that as a parent with them
Well you don't have to be crying.
Just I'm just saying if you are, it's okay 'cause a lot of parents are worried about crying in front of their kids.
But there are certain times where
a tragedy or something impacts you all.
And the most human response you can have as a parent is just to cry.
Right?
And I said I just don't want parents to fear showing their kids that they're human too and it's hard for them too.
I think that's okay
But you don't have to.
Like if you don't feel like you need to cry, don't feel like you have to force yourself.
Yeah, you don't have to force yourself, obviously.
But yeah.
If you are like I mean the research was talking about how that can be helpful for a child's emotional development during a crisis.
So I'm just wondering what about that is actually helpful.
I think it a shows that you're human.
It shows them that it's okay to cry
Right.
Like if you see your dad crying, well now I'm more likely to feel like I am allowed to cry too.
It also can be a way to connect two together.
through the vulnerability of like you all just being very vulnerable in that moment, I think can be a way to deepen your family connection as well.
And it's sometimes just the most honest thing that you can do
Sometimes there's nothing else.
Like I think about the losses that we've had, many losses, many hard things that you and I have been through with the kids.
Like sometimes there's nothing else to do but to just
cry together and be in that hard moment.
And then I think once you've had that, it's like, okay, where's the hope?
You know, and I do think the hope is the piece that moves us from that deep grief to the next stage.
Before we finish off on that hope.
Yeah.
I'm just wondering, is there any risk in showing those emotions to your kids?
Or is there a situation where you shouldn't, or is it generally acceptable?
So I think we should have some containers around the amount of emotions that we're showing in front of our kids.
So yes, I do think crying is is fine.
I think it's okay to be sad.
It's okay to even be angry.
Like I don't understand why this would happen either.
Like it's just
Like one of those things is just so hard.
Like I think that's all okay.
If you're at the point where you can't even speak because you are so dysregulated, I would
remove myself at that point and maybe let another parent take over uh or another adult.
Like I can imagine terrible situations where both the parents are in that state though.
Then later I would just make sure that I come back and process that with my kids too.
Process the emotions that you had in that moment.
Like tell my kids.
Wow, I was really wailing like I could not control.
Like 'cause you're right, there's sometimes like devastating tragedies and you just can't
control your emotions, then I would just say, like, hey, like I was beside myself because of this, and that was probably really hard for you to see.
Because you don't see me as that person.
Like, how are you feeling in that moment?
And like I would just work through that with my kid after the fact.
Yeah.
Sometimes you can't help it.
Like things are just absolutely devastating.
And you gotta give yourself some grace.
Like it's okay for your kids to see you human.
If you can remove yourself and like another parent can take over, fine.
But if you can't, just come back and talk to your kid about it.
Okay
What I'm trying to get at here is I know that sometimes our kids will try and like, here's my favorite stuffy and here's like all these things.
So is there any risk in you being sad, them seeing that
And then them trying to make you happy and I mean I think if it's like once in a while, I don't really mind that.
Like I think
There is something beautiful about the way our kids know how to care for us.
And if they are able to try and provide us with some comfort once in a while, I don't see that as an issue.
Now if it becomes like every day your child's basically your mini therapist trying to comfort you, trying to keep you happy, then I would be like, okay, that's not your job to keep me happy, right?
Like your job is to be a kid.
My job is to take care of you.
I know I'm having a hard time right now, but I have other grown-ups that are helping me take care of me.
So your job is not to take care of me.
So I still love you.
And I still love you.
Yeah.
So if they end up
acting like your caretaker, that's where I would draw that boundary.
But once in a while they want to bring you a stuffy and give you a hug, like I think that's that's okay.
I mean that shows them building that empathy as well.
So I that makes sense.
And shows that they love you.
Yeah.
Hey friends, so at pickup last week, our daughter asked Scott a truly kind of tricky question in front of her younger siblings.
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Let's talk tonight when we've got privacy.
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Okay, let's move into some more prime.
I mean we've already been kind of talking about some practical things, but let's talk specifically about divorce and the concept of it's not your fault.
Apparently in the research it says it's quite paramount in most of the literature or all of the literature
on it.
But kids, especially younger ones, are naturally just ecocentric.
Right?
They can only really think about themselves at that point.
Even if they can think of others, it's still they can't act on it.
So what are some
practical ways or ongoing ways parents can reinforce this message so it actually sinks in beyond just saying the words once or twice.
I think yeah saying the words are is important, especially when
you're going through divorce because I I said kids will come up with any story as to why the divorce is happening.
So kids need to know like it's not your fault.
A lot of times because when divorce is happening, kids will have challenging behaviors just because
of the upset that's going on in the home, just in general, then they'll be like, oh well, because I was bad, that's why dad moved out or mom moved out or whatever it is, right?
And I think it's just in the day-to-day how you treat your kids as you're going through whatever hard thing you're going through, right?
So you're saying this is not your fault.
You're not to blame for this.
And you're also signaling that in your actions towards your kids.
Like you're showing them that unconditional love.
You're checking in with them.
You're making sure not to be too hard on them, which is really hard when you're stressed out.
The more stressed out you are, usually
the first people who you take it out on is your kids.
Yeah.
So just being a long drawn out process usually too, right?
So it's so hard.
But just being mindful of the way you're treating them and making sure that they know that they're always loved unconditionally, that you're there for them, you want to talk to them.
Those will be the key things that they need.
Spending lots of time with them.
Yeah
Makes sense.
Okay.
Let's talk about tragedy in the news, which, I mean, it's pretty much all you see in the news, because that's what makes them the money.
The advice is often to limit
Media exposure, but in today's world that feels nearly impossible.
So if a child comes home with questions or fears about something they heard at school, what's the first step
I guess triage process for a parent.
How do you gauge what they know and what they need to know?
I actually have been thinking about this a lot because I feel like there's such a balance.
We don't have to totally bubble wrap our kids from all the hard things in life
I think they can handle knowing some stuff that's going on in the world.
'Cause you also don't want to get them to be like seventeen and they've never heard of like anything bad and then all of a sudden like
Wait, the world isn't what I thought.
They're basically living in the Truman show and then they realize that the world isn't quite that.
It is unlikely, but
Because I just have been thinking that because my default would be like tell them nothing bad.
But I do think it's important that they know some of the things going on in the world.
That being said, if they hear something on the news, if they see it
First question would be, what did you hear?
What did you see?
What questions do you have about that?
Just so that you can get their take on it.
And then again, it's back to just honest answers, kind of based on their age and stage, right?
So
You can give them some information.
The older they get, let's say you talk about a war or something like that.
You can look up information with
them you can try to give them some history on what's going on, like you can give them more information.
Uh you would look up information with them.
Not necessarily with them, sorry.
But like let's say you already have a pretty good understanding of why this crisis is going on or
You know, let's say our kids have asked us like, why don't some kids have lunches at school?
Right?
Like that's a question that they might have.
So you can just tell them what you know, right?
About why some kids just don't have lunches at school.
And then they might be upset about that
And then maybe you can see, okay, well, is there a way you think that we could help?
Is there something that we can do?
I think also finding little ways where kids can
be active in creating some change, I think can be really helpful and beneficial too.
It gives them a feeling of like, I can do something about this, which I think kids are actually really
Good at in comparison to adults who often feel stuck like there's nothing I can do, and we just kind of doom scroll and think the world is just awful, but we don't actually ever do anything about the hard things
So I think we can learn from kids in that regard.
But again, yeah, I think it's similar, like age-appropriate information.
If they're asking questions, we give them answers.
And finding ways that they can be active participants in change, I think can be helpful too.
I think that's a good answer.
We've definitely talked about a lot of heavy topics today.
If a parent listening right now is facing one of these conversations
now or in the near future and is feeling completely overwhelmed, what is one single most important thing?
I know you love that you would want them to remember from this episode.
Can I give two?
Sure.
Okay.
One, honesty in relation to your child's age and stage, right?
So not giving them everything when they're five years old and they can't handle it all.
But asking yourself like and sometimes even asking yourself, okay, what are like three honest answers I could give right now and then choose the most honest answer that makes the most sense for your child, right?
So you can
Pause, give yourself some time to think about what you actually want to say to them.
Like you don't have to give them everything the exact moment they're asking you.
Right.
Like even let's say divorce, if they're like, why, why did daddy move out?
You don't have to answer them that exact second
You can say, I am gonna answer you, but I want to just take some time to think about what I'm gonna say.
And then take some time to think about it, think of all the possible things you could tell them, and then choose one that you respect and that you think
would be helpful for them.
They can handle.
And they can handle.
Yeah.
So and then that's my second point is just allow yourself to pause and slow down in these conversations.
It often feels like when your child's asking you one of these things or something terrible has happened, like
I have to have the answers right away or I have to say the right thing right away.
Just slow yourself down a little bit and let yourself pause.
I know that's I have an ongoing
list and my reminders app of things that I have to go over with the girls if they ask me questions that I don't know in that moment.
I mean in one of our previous episodes we talked about personal phone use.
Often I'm just re- looking it up right away.
I also have a list of things that I will usually add to so that I know, okay, I have to have this conversation with them at some point.
Yeah
It's okay to pause.
It's okay to slow it down.
And especially if you're feeling chaos in your body in that moment, like maybe it's not the time
to have that conversation.
But yeah, and give yourself lots of grace because you'll probably have times where you're just weeping in front of your kids or you'll have times where, oh shoot, I shouldn't have said
so much to them.
Like maybe I said too much, you know.
Give yourself grace.
Like these are the hardest things that we have to talk about with our children.
No one handles them perfectly.
You won't either, and that's okay
And if you don't, then you just follow back up, right?
And the the main thing your child needs to know is just that you're there and that you really care for them.
Yeah.
And that they can come to you with their hard questions.
So if you've done that at the end of the day, then that's great
Makes sense.
I'm sure we'll have a conversation later about how I had that conversation with our eight-year-old.
It's okay.
I'm not too mad about it.
And again, like maybe that's even a good example of like sometimes you and your partner might even handle things a little different.
Yeah.
And that's okay too.
Maybe I should have talked to you about that in a little bit more first, but
What are some signs or behaviors parents should look out for in their children that might indicate that they are struggling to process the information or may need some extra support or perhaps even professional help?
Yeah
I mean any big changes in your child's behavior would be a red flag to me that there's something deeper going on for them that they're trying to process.
So
Can I just raise my hand here?
Is that the case though across all ages?
So like would you say the same thing for a two-year-old?
and an eleven year old?
I would say if you can pinpoint that right around the same time as this difficult thing happened, there was a
big change in my child, then yeah, I would be curious whether they're two or whether they're eleven.
Okay.
Because even our littlest kids, they feed off our energy, right?
So
Any time that you and I have been the most stressed out, even if our kids were two and like six months old, they still felt it.
Like I remember being stressed out and like
My six month old is more grumpy than usual, more clingy, like crying a lot more.
And I am sure it's because she could sense the stress, right?
Like kids feed off our emotions.
And so if you can pinpoint that, like
Oh, this death happened or this divorce happened or this difficult thing in our life happened.
And at the very same time, now my child's acting out all the time, or they're shut down, they're in their room, they just want a game.
I would get really curious about that
And I would say, I mean, l obviously I'm a child therapist.
That's typically the time when people come to me.
So that's what I see literally all the time.
And find a child therapist if you need to.
Like that is what we do because we are
neutral.
So we can have these conversations with your kids and we can coach you through how to have those conversations, sometimes in a way that you just simply can't, because like you mentioned in your situation, every adult was also frazzled, also upset, also dysregulated.
they couldn't have had those conversations with you.
But if you had gone to see a therapist who was loving and kind and could, that could have really helped you process it because they could be neutral, right?
So that is the plural.
Yeah I guess not having gone through that situation, it's a lot easier for you to be just
kind of have a neutral perspective on it and be able to provide some logic and helpful advice and love.
Yeah, we can do that in a way that sometimes parents
Can't and that's no fault of the parent.
Sometimes situations are just so hard that it does work.
I feel like that's just the reality of it.
Yeah.
Sometimes the situation is
difficult for the kids, but it's also difficult for the parents.
And you're not dealing with some of these issues on a regular basis, right?
It's not like you have your family pet die even once a year, right?
It's
Yeah.
It could be every twenty years or something like that.
So it's still going to be challenging for you as a parent too, potentially.
Yeah, and a good therapist can coach the parent a little bit on how to talk to their kids and then also help the kids.
So
This is a good time if you're like, I'm that parent who's just so dysregulated, I can't help my kids with it.
It's a good time to think about therapy if it's a possibility.
Yeah, makes sense.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well
Thank you for having this conversation with me.
Thank you.
I feel like we could have well, I know we could have gone over a lot more because I had significantly more questions, but
Yeah.
I feel like we covered a lot of It was heavy enough.
Yeah, it was heavy enough.
We didn't need to add more to that.
But we can come back.
We can come back for more.
So thank you for having that conversation with me.
And thank you for listening.
If you've stuck with us this long, I appreciate the the fact that you've uh gone through this pretty challenging episode with us.
So we'll see you next week and we'll have uh something maybe a little happier to discuss.
Hey friends, thank you so much for listening to today's episode.
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