Scott Resnick, MD: Think Differently - What Drives Inflammation?

In this episode we are talking about the body's barriers, and how disruption of those barriers drives autoimmunity.  There are things we can do to support and protect our barriers and keep our "castle" safe, and Dr. Scott Resnick joins us to give us the know how.

Show Notes

In today's episode, Scott shares how disruption of our barriers drives autoimmunity, and steps we can take to start to return to health.  From maintaining our barriers, to reducing our exposures...we dive in to how to interrupt the chronic inflammation that may be driving symptoms.

Scott is a physician trained in General Surgery and OB/GYN and realized the need for a more integrative approach, bridging the gap between allopathic and functional medicine when he was practicing obstetrics in New Mexico.
Years after his training in allopathic medicine, Scott looked up the definition of allopathy and realized that the focus was symptom treatment.  He wanted to do more than that, and studied and began practicing functional medicine in 2012.

Living in a microbial/invisible world...we have selective, semipermeable barriers.  How can we support their optimization and keep them from creating a frenzied response that turns into autoimmunity?

King or Queen of the Castle
Let's think of ourselves as the King or Queen of a Castle.
When you build your castle, it will likely have gates, walls, maybe a moat, a drawbridge, friendly villagers waiting to defend you, perhaps and army at the ready.

Our body has protective/selective barriers as well!
Skin
Gut
Lungs
Blood-Brain Barrier
Blood vessels

We can take steps to reduce exposures and also allow our barriers to be selective when they defend us.
These systems operate on pattern recognition.

* Know what you are putting on your skin.  Are you slathering yourself in toxins?
Maintaining hormone balance (insulin/thyroid/cortisol) will keep your skin supple and protective.

*The gut - where up to 75% of the immune cells are in the lining needs to be able to take in nutrients AND fight intruders
Create a ceremony around eating:  think, prepare, smell look at your food...sit down, relax and enjoy your meals.
Chew your food really well.
Our digestive system needs time to break down our food and our enzymes break food proteins (which can be considered dangerous strangers by the immune system) into smaller, safer particles so that the alarms don't sound and the armies don't attack.
BREATHE!
Keep your cortisol and stress response in check in order to support the integrity of your barriers!

Creators and Guests

Host

Julie Howton

What is Inspired Living with Autoimmunity?

The podcast for high achievers who want to stay sharp, focused and full of energy despite their diagnoses. Those who know there has got to be something better than simply accepting decline.

Hosted by Julie Howton, a National Board Certified Functional Medicine Health Coach who used to suffer from crippling Rheumatoid Arthritis until she learned the tools and strategies to take her power back from autoimmunity.

In this podcast, Julie brings you interviews with thought leaders in the Functional Health and Wellness space. You will get actionable recommendations to Take Your Power Back and catapult your health. No fluff, just concrete, useful steps to improve your health!

Welcome back to the inspired
living with autoimmunity podcast.

I'm your host, Julie Michaelson.

And today we're joined by Dr.

Scott Resnik and we're talking about
how the disruption of our barriers can

lead to autoimmunity and chronic illness
and what we can do to protect them.

Scott offers us his insight
through relatable story and gives

us actionable advice on steps.

We can start taking immediately
to help support our immune

systems and our overall health.

Scott welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for inviting me here.

I'm looking forward to speaking with you.

I am so excited to, to
bring your perspective and

different ideas to listeners.

I was telling you before we hit record,
I, I get really jazzed when it's something

that I know, even if they've listened to
every episode they haven't heard before.

And so this is, this is one
of those episodes for them.

I'd love to begin with your story.

I want listeners to get to know you a
little bit and kind of find out, you

know, why you're doing what you're doing.

So whatever part of your journey
you wanna share with us that

led you to where you are today.

Please share.

Okay, I will do that and
I'll try to keep it brief.

So my name's Scott Reznick.

I'm a physician.

I was actually trained as a an OB GYN
and with these skills, I went to a town

called Taos New Mexico which is one of the
most unique places in the United States.

And it's unique in the fact that
still to this date, something like

20% of births are out of hospital.

People have a different
idea about, about health.

They don't go racing to the doctors.

And what I found is that even as a
surgeon I was turning to more, what

we would call alternative ways of
looking at health to get my people

better or might get my patients better.

And so I found that instead of bringing
people to surgery, I was working

with their musculoskeletal system.

I was working with their bowel function.

I was working with their diet and so
bit by bit, I, I, and also I've been

using biodentical hormones in my.

Female patients since 2001.

So I guess I'm almost kind
of like an old guard in terms

of having, having used those.

So what I started to realize is
that there's a, there's a different

perspective in terms of how we can be
approaching health and in maybe 2010

or 2012, I did the fellowship with a
four M so fellowship trained with AORM.

I've put my surgical career on
the, on the back burner because my

passion is you know, really helping
to bridge this gap between Say a more

conventional approach to medicine and
what we refer to as function medicine.

And I think there's a, I think
there's a happy medium, you know,

I don't wanna throw out the baby
with the bath water that if I'm,

if I'm stabbed I want antibiotics,
generaled anesthesia and a surgeon.

But I think that for, yeah, but I think
that for so many of the chronic diseases

that, that we're approaching it from
the, from the, the wrong perspective.

And what's interesting is that I
trained as an apathic physician.

I went to an apathic medical school,
medical school did six years of

postgraduate apathic residency training.

And then when I'd been an apathic
doctor for about a decade, I decided to

look up apathy and see what it means.

And I literally got on Google and
I, I, I, I looked up apathy and I

discovered that the apathic practice
is the use of drugs, creams, potions,

medicines, to counteract the symptom.

So I spent four years in medical school,
six years in postgraduate training,

learning how to address symptoms, but
at no point, did they ever get us to

begin to think about what could be
driving these, these systems or what

could be promoting these disease states?

So I think that as a doctor or as a
health coach, or as a nutritionist

or anybody, when you, when you
start to reframe your perspectives,

We begin to get different answers.

So it's, you know, if we keep
on asking the same questions,

we're gonna get the same answers.

When we begin to look at
different questions, we begin

to get some different answers.

Well I'm glad you didn't look that word up
before you went to medical school or you

might have chosen a different career path.

that's possible,

Yeah.

And I'm laughing because I I'm,
like, I wonder how many physicians

have never looked up that word.

right?

so for me that question, the,
the different perspective

is the question why, right.

Why.

That's the question they don't really
teach you to ask in medical school

or, you know or, or discover, and you.

Are all about thinking different.

right.

and so I am really excited.

And, and I'll let you start as broad as
you want, but I want you to narrow down

to this how the disruption, disruption of
our barriers drives auto immunity, because

this is a topic that's, it's so essential.

And they're gonna hear about.

The other parts of what I
think you might touch on.

But nobody's given us a deep dive
in this idea of, of our barriers and

why they're important and why they're
compromised and what we can do.

Right.

Well, I think that as we discussed
before this, before we got started

here, I think that one of the most
valuable ways that we can communicate

complex ideas is through par.

Right.

I mean, the, you know, the shaman, the
churches, they figured that out a long

time ago that that people respond well.

So I think to, to begin to introduce
this idea, whatever I could do is,

is to generate just a little story.

All right.

So imagine that, that we You know,
we have our, our we're humans,

we're inside this body, right?

And we need to protect the
inner workings of our body.

Now we live in, in an environment where we
need to interact with our outside world.

I mean, really any sentient living,
being on this, on this planet needs

to engage with the outside world.

Primarily we need to eat.

And we need to drink.

Right.

But it just so happens that there's
this, this whole other life form

that's out there, which is microbial
and it's, it's invisible to us.

So over the, the years that we've been
on this planet, we've needed to develop

a way to actually have selective.

Permeable semi-permeable barriers
that allow the things that we

want to take in from the outside
world, like food and nutrients and

vitamins and water yet keeping out
this microbial world that we are.

Unable to see.

So the parable that I'd like to
develop is this idea of a king

or a queen in his or her castle.

Okay.

So if you think about it you've got your
valuable king or queen and what they

wanna do is they wanna protect themselves.

So what they've done is they build
a castle and that Castle's got

strong fortified walls, right?

If you're, if you go for the deluxe
upscale castle, you've got a nice moat.

That surrounds it.

And because this is in the story, a benign
king and queen, just imagine there, there

are, there's a whole kingdom of peasants
who love their king and queen and want

to see that the king and queen are safe.

So.

What happens is, but yet, you know,
of course there are, there are

Moring people that want to come and
take the, the king and Queens gold.

So what they've done is
they've set up and established.

They've established a set of
barriers that are that are hopeful

to, you know, to keep them safe.

So in some ways I see the human
body as needing to establish

barriers to the outside world.

So we have a number of different barriers.

You know, one of our barriers, our, our
biggest organ in our body is our skin.

Right.

And as we know, that's a
semipermeable membrane.

We have our gut, which I'm sure you've
talked about Alesio at, at, you know,

at mass general hospital and, and,

somebody with celiac.

He, he is

oh my

on my reading list.

Oh, he's, he's, he's one of my
favorite lecturers and, and thinkers,

but, you know, he describes the
fact that if you were to spread

out this barrier of our gut, it's
as big as it doubles tennis court.

Now, if you think of the fact that
our immune system is charged with

protecting that barrier, it means
we need to be able to find something

which is 10 billionths of a centimeter.

Virus in something which is as
big as a doubles tennis course.

So you can see that
that task is Herculean.

We also have barriers that, that are
an interface with our lungs as well.

So we need to be able to take
in oxygen and expel carbon di

oxide, but there are any number
of different particles or viruses.

I mean, look, we just went through
COVID, you know, these are,

these are, these are airborne.

So.

And then what's interesting is that when
you can, so these are the main barriers

that I think that our body is tasked to
protect, but then if we go even farther

and even even deeper into our physiology,
you can begin to think about other

barriers such as the blood brain barrier.

And there's also something
known as the sub endothelial.

Barrier.

And what that is is that's the
lining underneath our blood vessels.

So when one really understands what's
happening with cardiovascular disease

you could actually make a really
good argument that cardiovascular

disease is an autoimmune process.

The autoimmune

like a functional medicine doctor?

Oh no, the words out.

I love it.

So, so you

You mean it's not just,
just all cholesterol.

It's not

it's, it's not so cholesterol and
the treatment is not the statin

Yeah.

So, so, so it's interesting.

So what's, if I can just get into a little
more of the science and again, I promise

that'd keep this, this the simple, so,

Keep it simple.

At these, at these barriers are
things known as antigen presenting

cells and basically an antigen is
anything that would stimulate our

immune system to being revved up.

Okay.

So if you've, if you've got celiac
disease, the antigen you're most

concerned about is is gluten, right?

So what's interesting is that when
you look at our physiology, so in

an, an antigen presenting cell,
basically, Identify as something

in the outside world, you know, and
what it does is it sends messages to

our, the rest of our immune system.

So it presents these antigens to the
rest of the, of the immune system.

So what's interesting is we've got
antigen presenting cells in our gut.

They're called dendritic cells.

We have antigen presenting cells under our
skin that are called longer Hans cells.

So anything that penetrates our
skin, maybe it's a mosquito bite.

Maybe it's a, a brush with poison Ivy
that can stimulate our immune system.

And what's interesting is that last
year there was a lab at Harvard medical

school that actually showed that under
the lining of our blood vessels are.

You guessed it antigen presenting cells.

So our whole immune system's job is to
protect us across these barriers to to

basically keep us safe because the truth,
the matter is if you peel back my skin

and got a little scoop of Scott and set
it on the, on the sidewalk, it would

be teaming with bacteria, parasites,
yeast probably within a matter of hours.

So we need to maintain these
barriers to be able to protect

us from the outside world.

And that's really what the entire
immune system is charged with.

It's keeping us safe.

Wow.

And I knew, see, I knew you were
gonna bring a different perspective.

And I love, I, I love that idea.

I'm like, all right, I want a moat.

I want a Drawbridge.

I want.

Okay, so let's so let's, let's go back.

Let's go back to that metaphor.

So this is, this is not
a misplaced metaphor.

I haven't forgotten about it.

So, so, you know, probably the easiest
barrier to talk about is the gut.

And I know that on your, on your show,
you've had, you know, a number of people,

a number of discussions about the gut.

So I know that your listeners are
probably pretty, pretty savvy about it.

What's interesting is.

to finally accept that, that the gut is,
you know, a key player in auto immunity.

Right.

So I think it's probably
one of the primary players.

And if you think about it over
the course of the year, we all eat

more, less 2000 pounds of food.

So you can see that there's, there are
a lot of molecules that are, that are

making it into our body that need to
be reconciled by our immune system.

And an important thing that I
wanna mention about the immune

system is the immune system's job
is it's it's pattern recognition.

I mean, it's looking for molecules
that have a shape, an electrical

charge, a characteristic that
just tells it that this is, this

is a dangerous stranger, right?

So what we wanna do is we wanna.

Keep one, one maintain our barriers.

And I'm gonna talk about
how we can do that.

The other thing we wanna do is, is
make sure, do our very best to ensure

that that the, our immune system is
not being exposed to an antigen, a

bacterium, a yeast, a food that could
be setting it off into a hyper excited

state, because ultimately I think
that one of the most important things

about what drives our immune system
is this concept of molecular mimicry.

Have you come across that?

I haven't, that's what I was
thinking about when you were talking

about this pattern recognition.

I was like, ah,

Right.

Well, so

because yeah.

So the easiest way to understand that is
to, I mean, many of us have kids, right.

And when the kid gets strep throat
what do we do ring up to the doctor?

The doctor gives the kids some penicillin.

Now here's an example where alopathic
medicine might be realistic because

what happens is that the, the, the strep
bacteria actually has patterns and markers

on it that resemble the vowels of our.

So rheumatic heart disease is when
you get a strap, you know, you're,

you're infected by a bacteria again,
probably going through our nasal

sinuses and, and, you know, going across
that barrier into our, into our body.

But what happens is that dub immune
system confuses those antigens

with molecules that are actually
normally present in our body.

So I think one of the most.

Important things to recognize is that to
keep an immune system happy, we want to

one maintain our barriers and two keep
to the best of our ability, everything

that's that's in the realm of our
immune system of these, you know, these

dendritic cells, these cells that are
constantly sensing and determining, you

know, is our, is our environment safe?

Our is our gut filled with bacteria
that are helpful bacteria that are

gonna downregulate our immune system.

or is our gut filled with the
bacteria that, that might keep

our immune system RevD up.

And then when we have too many of
these patterns or molecules that

that could potentially confuse our
immune system, I believe that this

molecular mimicry is, is a, a big part.

And I know you've gone
over some of this stuff.

I mean, there there's a lot
of studies looking at things

like clubs, yellow and ansing
spondylitis or rheumatoid arthritis.

You know, there are a number of bacteria
that are associated with rheumatological.

Diseases.

So I think that one thing that we
can do is, is, you know, ensure

that the molecules that we are
exposing to our immune system

across these barriers are as.

Easily recognized and
as helpful as possible.

So, you know, you and I both
know what we're talking about.

I mean, if it's, you know, if we're
consuming organic foods if, if our body

is digesting these foods down into smaller
groups of amino acids and not long chain

of amino acids, which are proteins that
could be recognized as something else.

What, and if we have a microbiome,
you know, a hundred trillion.

Bacteria in our gut that are the good
type of bacteria, these immune cells that

are on the other side of the walls and
kind of keeping, keeping charge of what's

going on are, are are down regulated.

They're not getting into a, kinda like
a worked up place where they need to

create an autoimmune process, which by
definition is an inflammatory process.

Our body really has one way
of combating these things and

that is through inflammation.

And as you know, inflammation is
one of the most you know, it's the,

it's the tide that binds of not only
autoimmunity, but all chronic diseases.

So diabetes, hypertension, cardiovascular
disease, Alzheimer's disease.

All these things are
based in inflammation.

So the, the name of this game is
to one, maintain our barriers.

Two expose ourselves to the least
number of molecules that could get

our immune system out of whack.

And three maintain the nutritional
state that we can we can have a healthy,

healthy immune system that's working well.

And in a good, a real simple example
about nutrition is just like vitamin D.

I mean, you know, the amount of data
that's out there between, you know,

vitamin D and multiple sclerosis.

I mean so, you know, there are a number
of different things that we can, we can do

to help maintain some of these barriers.

And I promise I'm gonna get back
to our discussion about the castle.

Cause I think that's a you know,
pictures, pictures worth a thousand

words and why your listeners may
not remember what I'm talking about.

Hopefully they'll, they'll remember
the, the, the image of, of this castle.

Do you have any questions at this point

I have so many questions,
but not three hours.

No, I, I want to dive into, because.

I mean, this is it.

And this is the key, right?

I, I always joke if somebody were to just
turn on a snippet in the middle of the

podcast, it kind of sounds gloom and doom
sometimes, cuz you know, we're like we're

exposed to all these things and all of

Oh, right, right.

so that's not why you and I are
here talking today and, and while

we have to set the stage and
I, I do love the, the castle.

I, I.

That will stick with listeners
and I'm a visual learner.

And so I, I love it.

Let's start to talk about the, the,
how, like, what, what can we do?

I mean, you mentioned kind of the key
As far as, you know, the nutrition and,

and limiting what we're exposed to.

And, but really I, for me, the
biggest thing I wanna dive into

is, well, okay, how do we, how
do we maintain those barriers?

How do we protect them?

But we probably do have to start with,
because people are already listening.

Their barriers are probably
already in trouble.

Correct.

so, you know, wherever you
wanna start with the, with the

Okay.

So, so probably one of the easiest
thing to start with is the skin, right?

As I mentioned, that's the,
that's the LAR largest organ.

It is a, it's a permeable membrane to fat.

I mean, you know, we put our
hormones on our, our skin and they,

and they make it into our body.

I think one of the most important
things that your listeners can do is

know what you're putting on your skin.

And you know, that there's a, there's a
website, which is by the environmental

working group, it's E wg.org.

And there's a tab on that.

That's entitled skin deep.

Mm-hmm

so this is, this is gold.

I mean, so what we wanna do is we wanna
remember, I mentioned these cells called

longer ha cells, these, these antigen
presenting cells that live under our skin,

just make sure that you're not presenting
any of these cells with anything

that could be perceived as a toxin.

So they've got.

if you are not already taking the steps
to make sure you are actually putting tons

of toxins all over your skin all the time.

Right now, the other thing we can do is
we can also ensure that, that we have

I haven't talked about this, but there
are three hormones that are involved

in balancing our body's energy, which
is insulin, thyroid and cortisol.

I think many of your listeners I'm
sure have struggled with the state

of hypothyroidism, if not Hashimotos
and what is one of the classic signs

of, of hypothyroidism its dry skin?

So you can imagine that as our,
our skin gets dry, it doesn't

function as well as, as a barrier.

If we have high cortisol from too
much stress cortisol by definition,

diverts blood away from our skin,
because it's intent on keeping

our brain and our heart alive.

So if somebody has dysfunctional cortisol
that can similarly affect the way that

the, the skin is perfused, the amount
of blood flow that we get to our skin.

So the I'd figured I'd start
with the barrier of the skin.

It's our biggest organ.

I think it's really important to,
to ensure that you're not putting

any kind of any kind of toxin.

On your skin.

The next biggest barrier is our gut.

Okay.

So if we go back to the
castle metaphor, right?

When you build your castle you don't
wanna build it with a bunch of cracks

in the wall and, and, you know, a
draw, a Drawbridge that doesn't,

you know, that doesn't work well.

So.

Yeah, don't wanna leave it.

Don't wanna leave it half open and it
turns out if you're the king of the

queen and you've got your guards who are
guarding your castle, you don't want,

'em hanging out in the, in the basement,
in the mess hall, you know, drinking,

drinking gro and, and telling war stories.

You want them up on the, on the
margins, on the pyramids of your castle.

So is it any wonder that 75%, maybe
60 to 75% of our immune cells in

our body are located within one
centimeter of the blinding of our gut?

so it's almost as if this, the,
the king of our, you know, of, of

our castle, of our body's castle
had said let's send out our, our

guards to the, to, to the barriers.

And while we're talking about the the
gut if you were to, so let's say you

went, you know, you sprung for the moat.

When you, when you build your
castle, would you prefer to fill

that moat with water or acid?

Well, I'd probably choose acid
because that's gonna, that's

gonna actually help you.

So, so now if we wanna surround
our, our, our moat with acid, we

can do the same thing in our gut.

So it turns out that having a
healthy stomach with the cells

that make hydrochloric acid,
if we're acidifying our gut.

Then that's one of our first lines
of defense against these, you know,

these invisible microbes that, that
are coming in on the 2000 pounds of

food that we eat, eat every year.

So if you take your car and you spin it
into McDonald's, while you're on the phone

and you've gobbled down a hamburger, you
haven't taken the time to activate your,

your you know, your brain to tell your,
your gut to start making stomach acid.

What happens?

You gobble down to Hamburg.

If it's not broken down well into
small groups of amino acids, like 1,

2, 3, or four, but because you don't
have the proper stomach acid to break

down our proteins, you know, you've
got these more complex protein chains.

All of a sudden those can start to
look like some of these molecules

that are the dangerous strangers that
are the immune stimulating antigens.

So.

And I'm wanna, I'm going to be really
naughty because we don't have enough time

to cover everything I wanna cover anyway,
but you brought up one of my biggest pet

peeves in the alopathic medicine world.

I wanna talk a little bit more
about stomach acid because.

Mm-hmm

So many people by the time they find
me are on proton pump inhibitors

mm-hmm

we're, you know, just ti
they ha they're, they are not

breaking down their food at all.

And.

Gosh, that could be just
a whole nother episode.

So I, I, I don't

have to reschedule.

I, I know I don't wanna get to,
we just do one per system, but,

but I, I would just kind of want
you to reiterate a little bit why?

Because people think one of the really
common systems as people are in this

chronically inflamed state is heartburn.

mm-hmm

And then they're they, the one approach
the, the Western typical Western

approach is well let's squash that acid.

right,

Then we're losing motility.

We're it's this, it's this battle.

So I just kind of wanna highlight what,
what you said, because I, I always address

it with people in taking that functional
approach of, well, no, you actually

probably were getting heartburn because
your acid was already suppressed and.

It wasn't closing.

And you know, these are the same
people that are constipated because

now they've really, their whole
system has just slowed down.

But you gave me like a whole
new let's highlight again that

like, we need that stomach acid

Mm-hmm and I've got, you know, I'm,
I'm a fan on, on discussions like

this, or like, you know, cuz people
are listening to this or thinking,

what, what can I do about this?

I go to my doctor, they're putting
me on the proton pump inhibitors.

Here's a couple really simple
things you can do starting tonight.

To increase your production
of your stomach acid.

So there's something in our body,
which is known as the Selo gastric.

Reflex.

Okay.

SLO like cephalic head gastro,
meaning stomach, right.

And what this is is this, this
is the preparatory stage that our

body needs to begin to prepare
itself for the digestive process.

So what can you do to help that
Cephalon gastric reflex while driving

into the McDonald's while you're
talking on your cell, phone't it?

What you can do is you can begin to create
a little bit of ceremony around eating.

And so what happens is, as we think
about food, as we prepare the food,

we smell the onions that we're dicing.

We, we, you know, we, we we smell the
soup that, that that's getting ready.

We, we you know, we
prepare ourselves to eat.

One of the simplest things that
people can do is create this

degree of ceremony around eating.

And like I said, this is something that
your listeners can start to do tonight.

And what is that?

It means don't sit and
eat in front of the TV.

Set a place by, by the table you know,
go out to the bed bath and beyond, and

spend $12 on some napkins lights and
candles you know, turn have people take

their cell phones and, and turn them off
because our body wasn't meant to digest

food while we race from place to place
under you know, fluorescent whites.

No, we, we,

anyway, cuz that's not where
that's not where our energy is.

I love, I love that because I see, I,
I love just even the change in wording.

People have heard me talk about,
I heard other guests talk about

mindful eating and, and this is
what you're talking about, but I

like this idea of ceremony around.

We start to digest before
we put food in our mouth.

We start to get our digestion going
and, and looking at your, like, taking

a moment, like make your plate pretty,

right,

look at it before you
even take your first bite.

These are the things that are,
are so important that may.

Sound like luxuries.

But as, as you mentioned, like,
this is how we are designed

to, to digest our food.

Exactly.

see, I had no idea you
were gonna go there.

I love that.

And, and so, so, so the next simple
thing you can put this into place

tonight is, and I know you've talked
about this before is chew your food.

right.

I, I mean, really what, what we're
trying to do is we are avoiding these

complex proteins, these, these three
dimensional shapes of, of amino acids

and electrical charges and stuff
that are going to be recognizable.

Molecules by our immune system.

So what we know is we know that if
the immune, if the immune system,

and again, remember three quarters of
our immune system is lining our gut.

If they're exposed to smaller segments
of immuno acids, like one, two,

Then height one, two or three, four
one, two or three, four amino acids.

Those are recognizable patterns.

Those are, those are friend.

Those are friendly.

Like in other words,
immune system says, great.

We're we're getting fed.

We need those amino acids to
run our biochemical processes.

But if you're not taking time
to eat, if you're not making a

digestive stomach acid, you're not
activating your digestive enzymes.

You're sending poorly digested proteins
down into our lower parts of our gut,

where the immune system starts to, you
know, get a crack at what's happening.

You could conceivably, or you
probably are sending these more

complex collections of amino acids.

And that's what a protein is.

A protein is a, is a string of amino
acids, much like, just imagine to

remember those bar magnets we used
to play with when you were kids.

So if you, if you hang 'em end to
end, they're just nice and straight.

But if you kind of cl 'em
up together, they form like.

They kind of all stick
together and form a ball.

That's what happens with
proteins in our body.

And if you were to take a, you know,
you know, that there's gonna be

different magnetic forces, you know,
different places in that, in that ball.

So, so it's, it's it's structures
that look just like that, that

our immune system is recognizing.

And ideally we have an intact barrier to
our gut because what happens is that as

those barriers begin to break we start
to increase the potential that some of

these injurious dangerous strangers.

If I could use a, you know, I
like that term can, can now elicit

response from our immune system.

And like we talked about
earlier, the immune system has.

One way of combating these dangerous
strangers, which is inflammation.

And that's really at the
core of of autoimmunity.

And I know we're running out of time,
but let me just say one other thing,

which is if you go on with, with, with
the metaphor of the castle, right?

Because remember we've got a,
we've got a kingdom that loves

the king and queen, right.

So switch that thinking over in your
mind and think about those aren't

peasants, but they're bacteria.

They're the healthy type of bacteria
that actually have been shown to

down regulate our immune system.

So what happens when a you know,
a horseman wearing all black with

a face shield and a big sphere
starts wandering into the, into

the, you know the, the township.

Words can make it back to the,
to the, to the kingdom that,

that something's happening.

So that's the same.

That's how I'd like to look at our
relationship with bacteria, because

if we have the right type of bacteria,
you know, they're sort of in this

metaphor akin to, you know, this,
this peaceful cooperative kingdom, you

can see how as though, as that starts
to change, if the knew the opposing

thera gals start, you know, coming in
on horse, We're gonna, we're gonna be

able to get some early warning as well.

So with all those metaphors, you know, of
having a, having a healthy mode, having

intact barriers of our castle, having
our immune system, which is situated

like the guards at the parapets at
the, at the Drawbridge, not leaving the

Drawbridge down at night and having a, a
kingdom of bacteria read you know, happy

peasants in your kingdom who are willing
to help to, to keep the peace that,

that all that together works to maintain
a healthy, balanced immune system.

I, I just love that visual and I wanna
highlight for people because we hear,

and you did such a beautiful job.

The happy peasants, you know, I've.

Many times we tend to hear bacteria
and think bad and like, no, not

all bacteria, most, most isn't.

And, and so I love that you,
you were able to, to paint that.

Picture for us as well as the
way the system is set up, as

you mentioned is to protect us.

It's when we've got these chronic
alarms, you know, too many marauders

that are, it's just one after
another, that we get into this spiral.

And, and that's what we.

Can shift.

I'm gonna ask you a question.

You may not have known.

I was gonna ask you which is
probably dangerous as we're

getting close to, to time, but is
autoimmunity healable can we heal?

I would say yes,

Oh, well, thank goodness.

I, I guess I was rolling the dice.

I, I, I, I think it can,
I think it can be healed.

I think that it's, it needs to be looked
at as sort of a, a chronic chronic disease

with a, a potentially acute exacerbations.

So I do think that we can, we can
undertake a series of systematic.

Steps to optimize the way our, our
nutritional balance to ensure that

the way that our body handles energy,
which is insulin, thyroid, and cortisol

to make sure that's all, all, all in
balance to ensure that our, our, our

gut bind is intact, that we're not
putting toxins on our uh, on our skin

and finally to maintain that all of
our detoxification pathways are up

and running, which mandates having
a working gut and a working skin.

So you can seek and sweat, I I'm
of the belief that, that you know,

sort of like once auto immunity
happens, I think the horse is sort

of out of the proverbial barn.

So to speak, but I do think there is a lot
that we can do to, to sort of Mo that, to

kind of keep it, it tamped down and, and
it takes, you know, working with someone

like yourself or someone like, like me
who can actually have a coherent science

based approach that, that allows us to
look at this in a, in a way that's doable.

So I do believe that that
that autoimmunity can be

managed if not fully cur.

Yeah, I, I, I totally agree.

And, and listeners now, you know how my
life is, I've done a 180 But I, it is.

So I, I look at, in my life I'm symptom
free, but I'm also always taking steps.

mm-hmm

To stay that way.

One of the tricks and I, I didn't
really it's not something I, I

don't think I've ever shared on the
podcast that's ever come up before.

You know, one of the things
I do, I don't eat out often.

I like to be in control of
my food and, and we love to

cook and we love to eat clean.

But when I'm traveling or I do eat out.

I, I will take enzymes because while
my gut is healed and in a great

place, especially compared to where
it was when I was actively sick.

I look at that as insurance, right?

It's like extra

Right

because I don't know exactly,
you know, I, I know what.

Think is in the food.

And it's like, oh, I'm
not even gonna gamble.

I'm just gonna, you know, grab
myself some extra peasants

Right.

I, I, I love it.

And, and, you know, here's another one of
these, one of these kind of funny things

where, you know, there's this myopia
of, of, of mainstream medicine, cuz how

many people have gone in and said there
are doctors, should I take some enzyme?

The doctor goes, ah, that's no good.

There's no reason for enzymes, but if
you have a head of the pancreas cancer

and you've got a Whipp procedure where
you take out the pancreas, they give you.

Enzymes, because we know that the
enzymes can be taken orally and that

they work to help digest the food.

So I, I love the fact that, I mean,
so these are all simple things

that, that, that, that we can do.

I think the ceremony
of eating is important.

I actually have an Instagram site
which is @whatyourdociseating.

shows what I eat, because I, I mean,
another thing which I think is important

is it's it's is being healthy, takes.

And, and, and I know that that's
something you, that you've talked about.

It takes a little extra
effort to go to the store.

It takes some time to learn
how to prepare your food.

It takes some time to sit down and light
the candles and fold the napkins and do

the dishes and all that kind of stuff.

But the payoff is a life of health.

So what I do is I'm, I'm a doc.

Who's not like do, as I say, but do, as
I do, I created an Instagram site that,

that basically just shows how I eat.

And so it's.

What your doc is eating and I'm
sure you'll look at it after this.

You know, if you haven't

I'm totally gonna check it out.

I haven't that one I haven't seen.

And I do wanna let listeners know.

We.

Links in the show notes.

But you, it, somebody who wants to spend
six weeks working with you on all of these

foundational things, I know that you've,
you've got your program up and running

which is an amazing opportunity for people
to not only learn from you, but learn in

community which is so effective and, and.

We'll have those, those links too.

You already gave us.

I always ask at the end of the podcast,
what's one step listeners can take.

You can reiterate if, if, if it's the
ritual or it's your opportunity to

sneak in another one, it's up to you.

No, this is, this is something I know
that you've spoken about on your podcast.

And it's, it's, it's one of the
simplest things that we can do, but

it's probably one of the most important.

And if I could give you a one
word answer, it would be breathe.

I knew you were gonna say that

And I know it's funny because there's,
you know, that we could talk about,

you know, like the dendritic cells and
the different arms of the immune system

and the different enzymes you can take.

But at the end of the day, the most
important thing that we can do to

maintain a state of health is to
keep our cortisol and our stress

response in check because cortisol,
diverts blood away from the, from the.

It diverts blood away from the gut.

And it would make sense that if,
I mean, I didn't mention this, but

you know, the lining of the gut
regenerates itself every three days.

So if it's not getting the right amount
of blood flow, then you're increasing

the risk that the, those cells that
line, the interior of the gut, instead

of being like nice, connected like this,
they start to develop some leakiness

I always talk about the
brick wall behind me.

That's

that's right.

that's my it's my gut barrier.

See, see, see, you've been thinking about
barriers for, you know, for a long time.

We just needed

I have.

get on the show and

it's just exactly, it's
all putting it in language.

People understand.

And again, for people who learn, like I
do giving the visual people, listening

on audio right now are like, what
wall behind her, you know, they, they

have no idea what I'm talking about.

So what, what amazing.

Gold.

And I know you just gave listeners that
what your doc is eating is where to

find you on Instagram, which is fan.

I can't wait to check out
what you've been eating.

And, and

I have to warn you that I'm
not, I'm not, I'm an omnivore.

And I,

as am I well, we wanna be healthy.

I am a big fan of the, of the
of the statement eat a rainbow.

Right.

One of

and, and, but I think the most.

I say, I, you know, yes, I have a plant.

Once people say they eat plant-based,
I'm like, you have to define that for me,

because I say I eat plant-based as well.

But I also eat

right.

meat and wild caught fish and you know,

I think, I think that's, that's what
our body needs, because we start to

look at it from a metabolic standpoint.

There are essential amino
acids that our body can't make.

There are essential fatty acids that
we get in fish, like the omega3s and

don't get me started talking about
omega3 a index and autoimmunity,

cuz that, that would probably
require a whole additional podcast.

I, we could do one on like DS, omega
threes, you know, we, we could just

make a little list of formal, you
know, the whole, the whole thing.

So Scott, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

You've shared amazing gold.

You've done it in a way that hopefully was
as fun for listeners as, as it was for me.

I'm I will quote you
every time, but I will.

I am stealing your cast.

Or I'm building my own.

How about that?

that's that's I hope, I hope, I hope
that everybody out there builds a castle.

And I just want you to say that
it's really been my pleasure.

I, you know, I still look
for these opportunities to

be able to share knowledge.

I mean, I think we're, we're
entering a new time and that

time is characterized by.

We were talking about this earlier
democratization of medicine.

I mean, let's, let's make a, a
cogent science based compassionate,

realistic way of healing.

That isn't reactive.

That's not just alopathic.

And I think so, given any opportunity
to be on a podcast or speak to someone

like yourself, I'm going to jump at it.

And really this was, this has been as as
enjoyable for me as it as it was for you.

And I just wanna thank you for
giving me this opportunity to, to,

to share this and, and, and the,
the castle is royalty free, so

go.

love it.

I love it.

It truly, truly my pleasure.

And for everyone listening, remember, you
can get the show notes and transcripts

by visiting inspired living.show.

I hope you had a great time and
enjoyed this as much as I did.

I will see you next week.