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This podcast is dedicated to changing the automotive industry for the better, one conversation at a time.
Whether you're a technician, vendor, business owner, or car enthusiast, we hope to inspire you to improve for your customers, your careers, your businesses, and your families.
David Roman [00:00:00]:
Perfectly placed. Is he in focus?
Lucas Underwood [00:00:04]:
Let's look.
David Roman [00:00:04]:
You need a.
Lucas Underwood [00:00:07]:
He looks in focus to me.
David Roman [00:00:09]:
Yeah, it's good. Don't worry about me. I'll just lean in. Yeah, you're good. You go back, make sure I'm at least centered. That's good. It there you go.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:00:29]:
That's an awful lot of moving.
Lucas Underwood [00:00:33]:
Well, see, the problem is he usually runs this really soft camera, and so when he doesn't have the soft camera on him, he gets very uneasy.
David Roman [00:00:42]:
So I'm going to have several filters on. You don't want this unfiltered this mug on your screen unfiltered. Terrible, terrible.
Lucas Underwood [00:00:52]:
People start hitting the unsubscribe button just as quickly as the unsub button. They see you on the sub button.
David Roman [00:00:59]:
Yeah. I can't hear anything in these headphones.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:03]:
What have you done now?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:01:05]:
First it's focused. Now it's the headphones.
David Roman [00:01:08]:
Is it plugged in?
Lucas Underwood [00:01:10]:
I don't know. I'm sure it is.
David Roman [00:01:12]:
Yeah, they're all plugged in. Okay, whatever.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:15]:
You'll be all right. You sound just fine.
David Roman [00:01:17]:
I'm sure I do. I just can't hear anything.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:19]:
Well, it's the plosives that I'm worried about.
David Roman [00:01:22]:
The what?
Lucas Underwood [00:01:22]:
Plosives.
David Roman [00:01:24]:
Oh, I'm sorry. I'll be careful. I'll be good.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:27]:
All right, then. Matt, I'm not even going to try and pronounce your last name. Okay.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:01:34]:
So as bad as it sounds.
David Roman [00:01:38]:
I'm.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:38]:
From the south, bro.
David Roman [00:01:39]:
It's not going to sound like that.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:41]:
I promise. It's going to sound way different. Tell us a little bit about yourself, because you beat me. Was it last year or was it the year before? You beat me?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:01:53]:
I did.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:53]:
I cannot believe this. You'd let him on our show. You're terrible. David hated you for months.
David Roman [00:02:01]:
I was TikToking I don't know. Beat you. What?
Lucas Underwood [00:02:05]:
He was the winner of the Ratchet Ranch All Star Award.
David Roman [00:02:07]:
Two years. Congratulations.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:02:11]:
Thank thank you.
David Roman [00:02:11]:
You are you also open seven days a week.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:02:14]:
I am not.
David Roman [00:02:14]:
Well, I guess that's the threshold now. I think if you're going to win again, you have to be open seven days a week.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:02:19]:
You also have to have, like, 57 Bays and something else. Yeah, it's a crazy set up.
Lucas Underwood [00:02:25]:
Yeah, it sounded pretty crazy. Sounded pretty crazy. That event that you won at, and I've told some people this, but when we went to that bar that night right. We went out to the party, the Tech Metric party. And so we left.
David Roman [00:02:44]:
Sorry.
Lucas Underwood [00:02:47]:
When we left, okay. We all stood around and talked, and we're all standing around having drinks. Like, I look up and the buses are not running. You know what I mean? And so Taylor from Autoshop Solutions and some other people are still standing around and know, okay, well, I'll just walk back. Okay. I did not know that there were, like, certain parts of Minneapolis you're not supposed to walk through.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:03:10]:
That was a bad time. Obviously.
David Roman [00:03:12]:
That's true of every city in America except for Minneapolis, he thought. And then he discovered he's like, hey, it seems like there are bad parts of town in every city.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:22]:
It wasn't even that I didn't have any troubles.
David Roman [00:03:25]:
You know how, you know, I walked.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:26]:
All the way back.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:03:27]:
We had just had the riots and the George Floyd and all that.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:30]:
Yeah, I mean, all these people are.
David Roman [00:03:31]:
You from that area?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:03:32]:
I'm from North Dakota, actually.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:34]:
Okay, well, so I'm like walking through the middle of the streets. It's like 02:00 a.m., and there's all these people in the streets, and they were super nice, and I stopped and talked to them for a few minutes and we talked.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:03:46]:
Made fun of your voice?
Lucas Underwood [00:03:47]:
Yeah, of course. I'm walking and everybody's talking. Everybody's having a good time, and I'm like walking through them. And I get back to the host.
David Roman [00:03:55]:
Making fun of whose voice?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:03:56]:
Well, see, we get to make fun of people from the south just like everybody makes fun of how we talk.
David Roman [00:04:01]:
So it's kind of a background. You don't have a hard, like a strong accent.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:04:04]:
I'm not Norwegian, so that helps.
David Roman [00:04:07]:
Is that what it is?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:04:08]:
It has to be really a lot of Scandinavian then.
David Roman [00:04:10]:
The Scott Palava. Sounds like that. I know he doesn't think he does, but you can tell he has the.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:16]:
Hands of it, know, the bare hands.
David Roman [00:04:19]:
We're talking about accents here. I know, but he's got the accent like you listen to him talking from up north.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:26]:
Yeah, he acts like it, too.
David Roman [00:04:29]:
What does that mean?
Lucas Underwood [00:04:31]:
Acts a lot like you, David. That's why you hate him so much.
David Roman [00:04:34]:
Is because everything is north or north to you. Everything is. Except for Florida. That's true.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:41]:
And South Carolina and Georgia and Texas and Alabama.
David Roman [00:04:46]:
No, that gets like we were just talking about that. You start to get anything past, what, Alabama, maybe Mississippi, it stops being like the south. Now it's Texas and the Southwest, and it's different, but Florida is its own thing. Do you consider Florida? Like the south? No, exactly. Thank you. That's all I'm saying. Like the south is like Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi and that's it.
Lucas Underwood [00:05:15]:
That's the know, I really think that you are likely at some point to be the subject of Florida man. Right. You're going to be a headline article in Florida at some point.
David Roman [00:05:26]:
Why?
Lucas Underwood [00:05:27]:
Well, because you just do stupid things like that. Kind of used to it by now. I don't get you know, you've seen all the articles florida man, and you can search your name or not your can. You could search David or you could search your birth date, florida man, and your birthday, and it will come up with something crazy that's happened and a Florida man's done it. And so I'm just saying, is that.
David Roman [00:05:47]:
A thing, like a meme or something? Like Florida man in your birthday?
Lucas Underwood [00:05:52]:
Yeah, you can do that. And it comes up with have you tried that?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:05:54]:
I didn't know it was a thing. I'm learning all kinds of new things. What the south is Florida man.
David Roman [00:06:01]:
Do you disagree on the south?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:06:02]:
No, I do not.
David Roman [00:06:04]:
Florida is not the south. I get that.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:06:08]:
It's florida is its own country. Almost, kind of.
David Roman [00:06:12]:
Yeah. No, I can see that. But you just don't consider Florida south. The whole southern hospitality, I think, ends once you go into Florida. It's not the same. It's not the same.
Lucas Underwood [00:06:26]:
Look, just a random search. Just a random search. You type in Florida man and you put something up. Any birth date?
David Roman [00:06:33]:
Oh, yeah. Swallows 20 rocks of crack. I'm just telling you, naked Florida man performs strange dance at McDonald's before trying something. This is a newsweek.
Lucas Underwood [00:06:50]:
This isn't like you didn't know about this.
David Roman [00:06:55]:
It's a thing, man. I'm familiar with the term Florida man, but I didn't realize he was trying to have relations with a railing. Somebody put that in newsweek. Fantastic.
Lucas Underwood [00:07:15]:
See, my point, though, right?
David Roman [00:07:18]:
The guy who swallowed the 20 rocks of crack led cops on a chase from Miami to the upper keys.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:07:24]:
Oh, he lived.
David Roman [00:07:26]:
Apparently. That was the first thing I went.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:07:30]:
Into my head, is he lived.
David Roman [00:07:33]:
Oh, there's a whole website you can type in Florida man in your birthday and see what happened. That's awesome.
Lucas Underwood [00:07:40]:
It really is. That's what I'm trying to say. And so we were in Minneapolis, right? And I walked back, and the only weird thing that happened is, right as I get ready to walk into the hotel, you know, the furries were there.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:07:52]:
You remember the yep.
Lucas Underwood [00:07:54]:
And right as I got ready to walk into the hotel, this lady I'm like, on the phone with my wife, talking to her about, hey, this was the events of the night I lost. Yeah, it was terrible. It was terrible.
David Roman [00:08:08]:
My feelings are still hurt.
Lucas Underwood [00:08:09]:
My feelings are still hurt. He still showed up. Yeah, so did I. Yeah, it was fun. We had a good time.
David Roman [00:08:15]:
Well, you won. That's why you were there.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:08:17]:
I guess.
David Roman [00:08:17]:
But didn't we have a couple runners up? Rachel showed up. She was a runner up. The other guy, he's like, nah, I'm not showing up to accept my third place. That's trophy. You showed up. I'm proud to be second place.
Lucas Underwood [00:08:34]:
No, I went to see Scott Palaba.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:08:36]:
Way outdressed. Me too. Every time. What way outdressed?
David Roman [00:08:40]:
Me.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:08:41]:
I won. And he still addressed me, though.
Lucas Underwood [00:08:43]:
Yeah, well, so look outdressed, you.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:08:46]:
Oh, yeah. He's always dressed.
Lucas Underwood [00:08:48]:
Look at this.
David Roman [00:08:49]:
Look, he's got a setup. It's a whole like, he gets his clothes out, and I don't have to.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:08:55]:
Worry about what I'm is this what he wears at the shop, too?
David Roman [00:08:58]:
No, he wears these, like, retro 1960s traffic.
Lucas Underwood [00:09:07]:
What?
David Roman [00:09:10]:
He gets on camera one day, he's wearing the stupidest orange something or another. It was the most ridiculous thing. I said, what the hell are you wearing? He's like, well, you see, what happened was I didn't pay attention to the catalog, and what was it, the price was really cheap or something.
Lucas Underwood [00:09:28]:
No, they had an image of one uniform, but they had discontinued that uniform, so they just substituted it to the ones that we ended up with. They're not that bad.
David Roman [00:09:42]:
The story. I think if we go back, he's like, yeah, they were super cheap. And we're like, yeah, those be fine. You sure you don't want to see them? That's okay. All right. They showed up in these orange monstrosities, and then at that point, he's like, well, he's coming with it. Yeah. What else is he going to do? He just ordered 8500 of these, so that's what he wears.
David Roman [00:10:02]:
So when you see the pictures of him in his orange get up, it's a thing.
Lucas Underwood [00:10:07]:
Well, I mean, here's the cool thing, is that little Scott is so short that he really does look like a traffic Conan, right? Because he's only about four foot tall.
David Roman [00:10:15]:
Everybody's four foot tall to you. We've already had this conversation. We're not 4ft tall. We're just not six foot whatever. Some of us are just like, I am above average, thank you very much.
Lucas Underwood [00:10:32]:
Which website did you look that up?
David Roman [00:10:35]:
I looked it up. I looked it up. We have this whole conversation. It's five foot seven in the US. Okay. And I'm above five foot seven.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:10:42]:
Wasn't on the Florida side.
David Roman [00:10:44]:
It was not on the Florida side.
Lucas Underwood [00:10:46]:
I think you got the wrong measurement, bro. I'm just going to tell you, you looked up the wrong average man. I don't know what you were trying to measure. In all seriousness, I did walk back to the hotel, and this vagrant lady licks the side of my face as I'm walking into the hotel. And I'm getting there and Chris is.
David Roman [00:11:10]:
Like, standing did you tell your wife that part?
Lucas Underwood [00:11:12]:
She was on the phone when it happened.
David Roman [00:11:14]:
There you go. This lady just licked my face. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:11:17]:
I like I went and scrubbed my face off. It smelled really terrible. It was awful. And so, like, Chris is standing behind the glass door, and I get to the door and it won't open.
David Roman [00:11:27]:
Jones master.
Lucas Underwood [00:11:29]:
I don't think Jones was there yet. And so here comes the lady, and she opens the door and she reaches down at the floor and she unlocks it. And she lets me in and she's like, what are you like, I'm coming in the hotel. She's like, yeah, but you're like, walking outside. We don't do that here. I just did. No, we don't do that here. Are you okay? Yeah, I'm fine.
David Roman [00:11:56]:
Why?
Lucas Underwood [00:11:56]:
She's like, Never mind.
David Roman [00:11:59]:
She just walks off.
Lucas Underwood [00:12:00]:
I went to my room and she locked the door back.
David Roman [00:12:04]:
I'm staying in a hotel right around the corner. You can't go into the lobby without a key. Really? The lobby without a key? Wow.
Lucas Underwood [00:12:12]:
Is that a sign of things to come for the whole nation?
David Roman [00:12:16]:
I don't know. Maybe. It's just rough two blocks to the west, you go two blocks that way.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:12:23]:
And all it gets sketch.
Lucas Underwood [00:12:25]:
It gets were I think it was Sam Johnson saying he posted a thing for anybody coming to the event, like, hey, make sure you lock your car. Make sure you get this stuff out of your car, because it's a like it's a known problem here. Yeah, he was posting it all over the place, saying, like, we did drive.
David Roman [00:12:41]:
By a sign that said, choose donation or donate. Stop paying the mean.
Lucas Underwood [00:12:52]:
I expected San Diego to be bad when we were in San Diego.
David Roman [00:12:57]:
San Diego was san Diego wasn't bad at all.
Lucas Underwood [00:12:59]:
No, there was hardly anything.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:13:00]:
It was okay every time I've been there.
David Roman [00:13:02]:
It's pretty good.
Lucas Underwood [00:13:03]:
Yeah, but, I mean, you get in other areas. La. Is unbelievable.
David Roman [00:13:07]:
I haven't been in La. Since it went, like, sideways.
Lucas Underwood [00:13:09]:
Yeah. I mean, this is pretty rowdy out here. Dallas was pretty bad. Austin was terrible. Austin was the worst that I think we've been to yet.
David Roman [00:13:19]:
They cleaned that all up, though.
Lucas Underwood [00:13:20]:
Did they?
David Roman [00:13:21]:
Yeah, all that's gone. We went to ETI Tooltech in 2021, was it? And the tent cities were everywhere.
Lucas Underwood [00:13:31]:
You couldn't walk. Business, man. You started to walk up somewhere, and there were people asleep on the stairs to the business. As a matter of fact, we were there when that shooting happened that night, like, right before we left, I was, like, looking out my window at where those people had been shot at that.
David Roman [00:13:48]:
Bar out of the hotel right there.
Lucas Underwood [00:13:51]:
That's crazy.
David Roman [00:13:53]:
Well, they cleaned all that up. They told them they couldn't stay there. And, you know, here in Denver, there's this streetcar in this outdoor mall, and that's, like, the big tourist attraction. You walk up and down this whole thing, and it got filled with tent cities and people living on the street or whatever. Well, they needed to do a whole bunch of renovation, so they just came in and told them, you got to move. You can't be here. And so they all migrated north. So you go up four or five streets to the north, and that's where they're hanging out.
David Roman [00:14:29]:
All of the cool restaurants are not all of them, but a lot of the cool restaurants are four or five streets north. So we're setting reservations for just some nice restaurant, and me and my family get out, and we're walking by tents and these setups with all these homeless people living that's crazy. On the side of the street, and my wife's like, yeah, they used to be downtown. They're not there anymore. Now they're.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:14:58]:
So comforting.
Lucas Underwood [00:14:59]:
I know.
David Roman [00:15:00]:
Do you deal with that in North Dakota?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:15:02]:
Not really. Most people get the heck out of here before the weather turns. Yeah, we freeze to death in the summertime. You get a little bit, but that goes away pretty quickly. Nobody can really live in negative 30 below the ten is not going to work.
David Roman [00:15:17]:
Yeah, but is Minneapolis that warmer?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:15:21]:
Not a whole lot. I mean, we get the wind chills and stuff, too, so I mean, it's not uncommon in January to see negative 60, negative 70 with wind.
David Roman [00:15:28]:
That's insane. Yeah, but they're homeless people in Minneapolis. Is this just a city thing? There is no urban area in North Dakota.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:15:37]:
Not really. I mean, like, where I live, it's about 300,000 people.
David Roman [00:15:42]:
Yeah. Is it spread out?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:15:45]:
Yeah. I mean, it's like four towns kind of combined, separated by the river between Minnesota and North Dakota.
David Roman [00:15:52]:
Yeah. I don't know. Like 300,000 sounds like a lot. But then you get into a more densely packed area like Minneapolis or something like that. It's a whole minneapolis is considered a smaller city compared to Chicago. Chicago is massive.
Lucas Underwood [00:16:07]:
Chicago didn't seem as bad as this.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:16:09]:
No. Well, again, they get lower temperatures, though, too.
Lucas Underwood [00:16:13]:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, Chicago wasn't nearly as bad as what is right here.
David Roman [00:16:17]:
Denver here?
Lucas Underwood [00:16:18]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:16:19]:
It gets pretty cold here. Not no. That's insane.
Lucas Underwood [00:16:23]:
Anybody want to live through that?
David Roman [00:16:25]:
Why would you want to?
Lucas Underwood [00:16:26]:
Well, that's why he's a successful shop owner, right, is because he can tolerate very uncomfortable things.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:16:32]:
And it just doesn't cars break in the mean it's just guaranteed business all the time. It's very busy in the cold. It's busier than a lot of rust. Yes and no. I mean, I'd say we have more rust than anywhere else in the country does.
David Roman [00:16:48]:
Probably like Pennsylvania. Have you been to Pennsylvania? Miserable there. And they have a lot of think.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:16:55]:
I would say we have rust. They don't salt the roads like they used to and all the stuff, so that's helped a lot. But cars are made not as well as they used to be.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:04]:
It doesn't matter whether they salt it or not.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:17:06]:
The sheet metal on these things are nothing. So it doesn't take much for a bauxite or something to rust out on a fairly new car.
David Roman [00:17:13]:
Really?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:17:15]:
We'll see thirteen s. Fourteen s with completely rusted out bauxides and holes through them.
David Roman [00:17:24]:
One shop, two shops.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:17:26]:
Ten.
David Roman [00:17:26]:
You have ten. What is wrong with you? This is who you bring us, deranged individuals. I enjoy negative 60 degrees and ten times the shop ownership. Fun. I'm just kidding because Dan what's his name?
Lucas Underwood [00:17:47]:
Doug Grylls.
David Roman [00:17:48]:
Doug Grylls. Doug Grylls is just he talks so effortlessly, and it's just genius coming out. He doesn't realize it, but it's effortless. Like he's not trying to sound smart.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:18:03]:
He just is smart.
David Roman [00:18:05]:
There's a difference. Anyway, and he goes, we're having this conversation. It was really good. It was last year at Ratchet and Wrench.
Lucas Underwood [00:18:14]:
Yeah.
David Roman [00:18:14]:
And he goes, yeah, you got to get past three. After three, there's layers. I don't deal with anything because I've got people layers of people underneath me. He said it was three, but what did you find it to be?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:18:31]:
I would say three or four was kind of when it started. Then after five it got even easier.
David Roman [00:18:37]:
Really?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:18:38]:
Five and above it's a lot easier if you have the right layers put together.
David Roman [00:18:43]:
Yeah, right. Was that what you got out? Like you set out to? I'm going to own ten.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:18:49]:
I honestly wanted to own one, and it's turned into ten. So there was no plan by accident.
David Roman [00:18:55]:
Did you just trip over the other nine?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:19:00]:
It was one of those things that I started out I wanted to just be my own boss, and then it got successful. And I'm like, okay, I can't handle the demand. Added another one, then I added another one. And these opportunities just kept coming. And then we're like, okay, maybe we're onto something that's different here. And that's what's kind of sparked this.
Lucas Underwood [00:19:19]:
Was over a short time period. This was not like years and years and years and years.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:19:23]:
I'm 14 and a half years in right now.
David Roman [00:19:26]:
Awesome.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:19:26]:
But we added five stores last year in a four and a half month time span. That was more than I'd recommend anybody doing at once. We had shops that closed like, a day apart from each other. That was a little stressful, but we made it work. Yeah, but I've got really good people. That's really helped me a lot.
David Roman [00:19:47]:
So when you start getting into I'm going to start snatching up these just you're not buying them with cash? Are you financing the deal or you're buying the land and the we buy both.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:20:01]:
I do cash deals on all my operations, side assets, all that stuff. And then we've built up a pretty good real estate portfolio. So I go in with cash, buy the real estate, everything. And then when I go to buy the next one, I finance the one I bought, whatever, and get my cash replenished and just keep moving.
Lucas Underwood [00:20:20]:
That's pretty slick.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:20:21]:
Yeah, it's been a good model for us. I own a bunch of residential real estate and some commercial real estate.
David Roman [00:20:27]:
Do you have it all separated then? A certain company buys all the real estate, they rent it out.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:20:32]:
Yeah. I've got, like, 25 LLCs. We have 64 pieces of real estate we own right now.
David Roman [00:20:37]:
Hey, fun fact, the IRS just announced did you see this? The IRS just announced that they have created a brand new division to just handle pass through entities. Yep. Really?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:20:52]:
I did see that.
David Roman [00:20:54]:
They are going to specifically target pass through entities because they feel that these are the entities that are not paying their fair share. Not the corporations, because they may deal with double taxation, but the ones that are not dealing with double taxation.
Lucas Underwood [00:21:12]:
We need to fix that.
David Roman [00:21:15]:
I will apparently be filing to become a C Corp. Those corporate losses are going to start piling up. I'm just telling you.
Lucas Underwood [00:21:27]:
I don't think you have to.
David Roman [00:21:28]:
How have you been operating? Ten years, you haven't made any money. 10,000 plus dollars of losses every single year.
Lucas Underwood [00:21:36]:
My only fear is that it might be accurate for you.
David Roman [00:21:39]:
It is entirely accurate. That's what I'm worried you should see my tax returns. Never make money. I don't. I don't make money. Well, we've had this conversation, like, you don't listen to the podcast, but our demographic is two shops at third shop. They're like F. These guys click.
David Roman [00:22:04]:
They stop listening. Anyway. So, Cecil Bullard. You familiar, right? Yeah. Good old Cecil. Believes in profit, and you got to make money. And this, that, and the other. Okay.
David Roman [00:22:16]:
Just not me. It's good for everybody else. Not me. I don't want to make any money. Zero.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:23]:
None.
David Roman [00:22:24]:
None. Not a dime.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:27]:
We've been having these conversations lately. I got to choose my words carefully here.
David Roman [00:22:36]:
Don't insult the man.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:37]:
I'm not going to insult the man.
David Roman [00:22:38]:
We do find you crazy.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:39]:
I'm just trying not I appreciate you.
David Roman [00:22:42]:
Do you know what's, David goggins. Are you familiar, David? He says, I'm not crazy. I'm just not you. Is that how you feel about us?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:22:52]:
We're all the same. It's just we have different ways we're.
David Roman [00:22:55]:
Doing we're not the same, dear. We're not. You think we are. We're not.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:59]:
Well, that's where I was going. That was the topic. Right? Because let's look at terminations, for example, okay. David struggles with okay. And I've gotten better at it, right? I've gotten better at but but the concept of having an organization which would need to let someone go, like, know, seth was in here earlier talking about a situation where it was you're not performing, and so because you're not performing. Bye.
David Roman [00:23:30]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:23:30]:
And Seth said that so effortlessly, and David's like, I cannot do that. I just cannot do that. I don't feel okay with. And the same thing with all the issues that are present in the business. How do you because talking about a friend of mine recently who's been going through something with service advisors, had two service advisors that were well established with the organization. Wasn't anything the organization did wrong, but they retired and they kind of knew it was coming, and they just thought, well, I'll just replace them. And it was a multistore deal, and it didn't work the way they planned. And all of a sudden, there's this downhill slide in multiple stores, and I just don't know that I can handle that kind of pressure, that kind of thing happening.
Lucas Underwood [00:24:20]:
This dude can't even fire one person without freaking out about it. Well, now I've got a team of 100 people. I've got a team of 30.
David Roman [00:24:28]:
The issue then becomes it's not necessarily because, well, you don't have to directly deal with it. And that's what he was saying about Seth. Seth's not going to fire anybody. He's got people that fire them. I'm sure you have people that fire them, too. And if I was that far removed from it, I think it wouldn't be an issue. If I was one of your store managers, I wouldn't have an issue with it. I fired so many people over.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:25:00]:
I think that's the difference is the connection that you have when you're in a small environment. It's like, I struggled firing people, and I had one or two stores because I had a very strong connection with these. My family and I had to start as we grew, I had to start treating it as a business because that's what we're doing.
David Roman [00:25:17]:
Okay, how do you make that switch?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:25:20]:
It's a mindset. And it wasn't something I woke up one day and be like, oh, you guys are number one, too, and you're number this. That's not how it works. I mean, these are still my family. These people are important to me. But I had to slowly work at okay. I have to separate the relationship from you performing at your job and you showing up for your teammates and everything. And that was the really eye opening moment, I guess, was I had to separate the two.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:25:46]:
We can still go out and have a beer, or we could still do that, but when it's work time, this is a different relationship. This is a work relationship. And a lot of owners I do coaching as well, and that is a thing a lot of owners struggle with that.
Lucas Underwood [00:26:03]:
Maybe there's levels to this, because I'm thinking about the guy that was in my class a few minutes ago, right? And he said, well, basically he said, that won't work here. You don't understand. And so we fuss about that all the time because you don't understand. That won't work here. But we're basically doing the same thing.
David Roman [00:26:20]:
Are we doing the same thing?
Lucas Underwood [00:26:22]:
I mean, to a degree, right? We're saying that we don't want to grow to multiple stores for that reason. We don't want to grow to multiple stores because we don't want it to become something like that. And please don't misunderstand anything bad. We've been talking about this a little bit lately, where.
David Roman [00:26:39]:
It'S not the multiple store ownership. That's fine with me. I have no problem with it. The multiple layers is even appealing.
Lucas Underwood [00:26:51]:
Yeah, of course.
David Roman [00:26:54]:
That mindset shift, and the work that has to come after that is what I don't want to do. One, I almost think I'm incapable of it. I don't think I have it in me. For what it's worth, I don't think.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:27:14]:
I had it in me either.
David Roman [00:27:15]:
But you did.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:27:16]:
I had to work at it, though.
David Roman [00:27:18]:
Okay. But I guess what I'm saying is, I think deep down, you had that dog in you. You had it. It was in there. You just had to tap into it. It's there. I don't think I got that. I just don't think I have I really don't think I have it.
David Roman [00:27:39]:
But even then, the decision isn't just to make the shift and say, well, I've got to start looking at this as a business. I think also you have to see the other side of that and think that is a better situation for me or more appealing than where I'm at right now. Does that make sense? For sure. You have to make that decision as well. And going not only I want more stores, I want more volume, I want more revenue, I want more profitability, I want more comfort, I want whatever right. I want the boats. And in the process then I know I need to take these steps. I want the boats more than it's uncomfortable making these decisions and these productive discomfort.
David Roman [00:28:35]:
It's not even productive discomfort. It's deciding that it's productive. It is discomfort, but it's then deciding that that is more productive for me. I need to make these decisions and I think I struggle with that because it's okay. Let me make that mindset shift and say I'm absolutely going to treat this more of a business than anything else, but why do I want to do that? And how is that benefiting me? Not just financially it would, but that's it my estimation. I'm not speaking for you or saying that that's how it is.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:29:21]:
There's a different way to look at that though, too, because for instance, just expanding isn't just about making more money. So we created something special in our one shop and we were able to recreate that again and again. And now we've impacted multiple families lives. So making that hard decision on one person, is that better for the group that you've built and you've changed their lives in the community's lives that you're in. And I think that's the bigger picture that you have to think about.
David Roman [00:29:50]:
Yeah, I can understand that. I think you do get a point. You're nowhere near it. I worked for a parts store, and when I joined them, I had just come from a much larger organization into one that was still scrapping. And it felt different. It was cool. I could talk to the CEO. He was a phone call away.
David Roman [00:30:20]:
He still took phone calls and you could email him and you could talk to any of the corporate, like the head, the C Suite. And it was probably maybe two or three years, and the growth went from steady to exponential. And all of a sudden, the C Suite was no longer accessible. Same people. There were just multiple layers now. And you as a lowly store manager running a multimillion dollar operation here for you, right? But you were no longer in the group. It changed. It changed.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:31:05]:
It had to change though, because as you but for the worse, you were.
David Roman [00:31:09]:
No longer part of this. Like the culture shifted. It wasn't a small town. We're all family. We're working together. We're the scrappy small company that's fighting the big boys that went away entirely. You are now one of the big boys. You are now a number.
David Roman [00:31:25]:
You're employee number 118375. And that's it. And that shift was difficult for me.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:31:34]:
That's something that we. Really work on at the store from the top down. That culture continues to be ingrained into every person, from the store leaders down. So what I started this business as is still there to this day with ten stores, but it's been ingrained down through the teams of what we are, who we're about, and that communication is there between all of these guys. And they hold each other accountable to make sure that our ethics, our standards, our core values are being met every single day.
David Roman [00:32:07]:
Sure.
Lucas Underwood [00:32:08]:
So were you a technician?
David Roman [00:32:10]:
Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:32:10]:
And so you started this as a technician?
David Roman [00:32:12]:
Yes.
Lucas Underwood [00:32:13]:
What was your reason for starting the business?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:32:14]:
I wanted to change people's perception of the industry. That was truly what I wanted. If I'd made a good living, I was happy, I was a good technician.
Lucas Underwood [00:32:24]:
What did you think their perception was at the time?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:32:27]:
That a it's a bad industry.
David Roman [00:32:30]:
Right.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:32:31]:
We take advantage of people. And I witnessed it firsthand. I was a dealership tech for most of my career, and I couldn't believe how many times a car would come in and it had 30,000 miles on it, and they sold every flush on it. And they look at the history, they were just done 6000 miles ago. And I'm like, this is not okay. And that was really what kind of pushed me over the edge, is like, there's got to be a better way to do this.
Lucas Underwood [00:32:53]:
How did you feel as a technician in those environments? How did the industry treat you? Did you have any feelings about because right now we look at that presentation and I had seen that presentation weeks ago. Chris hooked it up with it, and we look at that presentation and we say, those numbers don't look good. Right. And there's no immediate solution to the numbers that were brought in that presentation at lunch. Right. We're going to ride this one out.
David Roman [00:33:30]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:33:30]:
There's no way around it. Was there ever a point when you said, I want to treat people differently, I want them to feel differently, working for me? Were you ever treated poorly as a technician?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:33:43]:
Yes and no. I guess luckily I flew kind of to the top a lot, so I did have that, but I felt powerless even. I was in fairly large dealerships, 2025 technicians, and I was a foreman, and.
David Roman [00:33:56]:
I had no power.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:33:58]:
I couldn't inflict change, I couldn't have a voice to ownership. And I think that did affect how I operate my business and how we've hired and what people we've brought on and all those pieces.
Lucas Underwood [00:34:11]:
So let me ask you this then, because that shift and that move, right. And one of the things that I talked about in my class today was that the why has to be substantial to go from one store to multiple stores. The why has to be substantial to actually grow the business. Just because I want to work on cars is not enough. You said, well, I want to change the industry. I want to make things better. Is there more to that? Why now? Because you've developed, you've got a family, you've got all of these things, and you've got all these people underneath. You did that.
Lucas Underwood [00:34:46]:
Why transform and develop and turn into something more as you progressed?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:34:51]:
Yeah, well, now, I think I was asked a month or so ago how I measure success. And I really look at that as like, okay, are we making an impact in our communities? Am I making an impact in my team members lives? And lastly, are my kids proud of me? If I check all those boxes, I'm successful. I don't care what's in the bank.
Lucas Underwood [00:35:12]:
Yeah, for sure. Well, I guess the reason for my question is those shop owners who are sitting here saying, I need to find my destination. I need to figure out where I'm going and owning a shop. Because when I started with the shop, there was no thought process beyond owning the shop. You know what I mean? This is just what I'm doing. It didn't have a thought. Like, this is the trajectory that I'm trying to accomplish, and this is where I want to be. So I went through this change when we moved into the new shop, because now all of a sudden, the thing that I'd worked for for years is here.
Lucas Underwood [00:35:50]:
And I'm like, oh, shit, I don't know what to do now.
David Roman [00:35:55]:
Right?
Lucas Underwood [00:35:55]:
And luckily, we met challenges. I never thought I would find myself saying, well, thank God the numbers are not what they're supposed to be. But I really am saying that because I'm like, hey, I've got a challenge in front of me. I can do something with that because I need that challenge. I need something to fight back with. And so I'm just curious, what was it that pushed you to say, okay, store one, here I am. I'm right here. I've accomplished store one.
Lucas Underwood [00:36:24]:
What is the next part of this trajectory? What made you say, okay, it's time to go to two?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:36:30]:
So, for me, I started in one hoist back of a shoe and tarp repair shop. I had no desire to be anything more than that. And then we expanded. I bought the building eight months later. I'm like, holy crap, I've arrived.
David Roman [00:36:42]:
I've done. It kind of like what you just said.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:36:45]:
And we filled those bays and I filled them with good people. And then I still had more good people wanting to work for me. I had still customers that needed our help. And I'm like, I can't help these people. And so I'm like, okay, the only way to do this is to look at how do we expand? That was a tough decision, and ultimately we decided, okay, the only way we're going to help this and have a bigger impact is to expand.
David Roman [00:37:10]:
Right?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:37:10]:
And that was really what happened. And every time we've done something, the goal is just kind of pushed further ahead. But I was probably at four or five stores before I really realized what goals were and how to adjust them as you're reaching them and stretch them and things like that.
Lucas Underwood [00:37:26]:
Yeah, well, I've got a good friend of mine who is really brilliant when it comes to the property game and doing stuff like that. And I've watched him take and he was already uber successful well before the property thing started happening. And so he just had the potential sitting there. And so it was like, okay, I have this potential. For me, I'm big about optimizing and maximizing whatever I'm doing. I enjoy that process. And I think for him, it was the same thing. It's like, I'm going to take this and I have the potential sitting here.
Lucas Underwood [00:38:02]:
There's no way that I can stand to let this potential sit in the bank account or sit right here, and I'm not going to do something with it. I have to do something with this, and I have to take it and make something else. And so then he does that and he has more potential now. So he says, okay, well, I've done this. Well, I got to do something with that potential. And in my opinion, I don't think it has anything to do with money for him. No, it's just like, hey, I like doing this. I enjoy this.
Lucas Underwood [00:38:25]:
This is like my job now. This is what I do. I think for us, in a lot of ways, that seems so far fetched, not far fetched, but it seems so far away from where we're at to be able to take that next step and start making it happen. And I think a lot of it is the stress. We talk about the friend that's got the shop where the service advisor thing is happening. My biggest fear is I go start multiple shops and then something happens with the staff and I lose somebody. I'm like, oh my God, I'm back on the counter. Something's happening again, and I have to go back and I have to solve these problems.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:03]:
I'm worried about that transition. And I guess when you get to three to five shops, it solves that problem. But man, I am really nervous about you.
David Roman [00:39:11]:
Don't make any sense. You are just trading one problem for another. You're just talking about how you need the challenge and then like, okay, go do the thing.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:19]:
My point is that it doesn't matter.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:39:21]:
How many shops you have, these problems all exist.
David Roman [00:39:23]:
Exactly.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:24]:
And that's what I'm saying, is those are the problems I don't want. Like, I'm good with certain problems.
David Roman [00:39:28]:
So you don't want to own a shop.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:29]:
This staffing problem thing is like, do.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:39:32]:
You want to be an employee? Because I mean, that's what's going to happen.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:35]:
No, I don't want to be an employee.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:39:37]:
Like talking about working the counter and stuff. Like, that terrifies me at this point.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:41]:
Dude, I'm telling you, I will get physically ill.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:39:45]:
I'm good for about two days.
David Roman [00:39:49]:
I'm good for a few hours. David, I get exhausted.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:52]:
David will literally start calling real estate agents, dude. I mean, if he's got to work in the counter, somebody calls in sick, dudes, going through the yellow Pages. Real estate, real estate, real estate. Who's going to buy this? I swear to God, I've never seen.
David Roman [00:40:05]:
Somebody people calling sick. It's really rare. It's very rare. That's not the issue. Here's the thing. I think we are built to struggle and constantly have to fight across the bear. Yeah. That is just humankind.
David Roman [00:40:28]:
There's no way to get around it. And I think you get to a situation like you're in where you're generating a ton of money and it's okay. It's no longer, how am I going to feed my kids? That struggle is gone. And so you get to a certain level of comfort and success that you have to find something to fight against. 100%. You have to 100%. Everybody does. My struggle with it is that I feel again, please don't think I'm judging or anything like that.
David Roman [00:41:01]:
I feel like the goals that are then having are then self imposed and contrived in my mind, because what do they matter? Who cares? This store, number eight, needs to do 1.2 million. It's only at 900,000, okay? Now the challenge is how do we get it to 1.2? Because that's its potential. It needs to hit 1.2, and it's at 900. So that then becomes the struggle and the challenge where I would look at it and go, I don't care, like, it missed its goal by 300,000, okay, I don't care. I don't care. And so I would then not be the right person to be in that particular situation because everything would look meaningless and contrived to me because it's just a number on a piece of paper. It's profit or maybe it's not. And it's like, okay, now I got to pay some more taxes.
David Roman [00:42:09]:
All of that seems so petty in my mind. And it's just like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to fight to get my mindset right, to then get to the point where I can effortlessly, not effortlessly, but fire someone knowing that I have to because my organization has to grow, and that person is holding us back. Why does the organization need to grow? Well, because I think we can do $1.2 million in my store and we're only doing 900,000, and that employee is holding us back. That 300,000.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:42:49]:
I don't think I'd ever look at it from that capacity. I think when you look at letting someone go in your organization, when you're a small shop, I think about people that affect the overall group. I don't care if your group is three people or ten people. One person ruins that group. And if they're not contributing part to the success of the team, because you guys are a team, whether you think it or not. You're a team whether you're three people, ten people, 100 people.
David Roman [00:43:16]:
But again, take one step past that, though, the success of the team, in what capacity?
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:43:24]:
So your people doing well, you doing well, everyone that works in your organization doing well, one person can affect that.
David Roman [00:43:32]:
I agree with that's. Absolutely true. Absolutely true.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:43:35]:
And I don't care what your team size is at that point. I don't care how many stores you have. It's relevant in every one of yeah. You know, and to Lucas's point, like you talked about, you have to step in and you like these challenges. What I found with a lot of single shop owners, the reason they don't take the next step is they like being that person.
David Roman [00:43:54]:
Yeah.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:43:56]:
It is a thing. And I had that problem. I had to be the hero. I had to be the guy that had the answer. And the minute I actually didn't, that was when I probably grew the most.
David Roman [00:44:07]:
Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:44:07]:
And the people in your organization start to grow, right. Because now all of a sudden, they're allowed to make the mistake. They're allowed to learn on their own. They're given the power to make decisions and see the consequences. And you find the true leaders in your organization that begin to expand.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:44:22]:
And I think my greatest accomplishment is the impact I've had on all these individuals lives that work for us. You're impacting whatever your team size, yours is, and you're same with you. And I'm doing the same with my team, regardless of the size of it. That's something you should be proud of, regardless of. You do one stores, ten stores, 100 stores.
David Roman [00:44:45]:
I can I can I understand what you're saying. I guess, for example, some of the struggle that I'm having, though, is that when you say, well, this one person is affecting everyone doing well, I question just well in general and go, what does that even mean? I'll try to flesh this out a little bit. The presentation we had yesterday, the guy up there is killing it, right? And he kept talking over and over about how his team I got guys making $200,000 a year and $100,000 a year, and yada, yada, yada. You get to a certain point where it stops being necessary. I sound like a communist. This is terrible.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:45:44]:
I've always added the question, how much is enough? And that's not, I think, on my side when I talk about the team doing well. I'm talking about your home life, your mental well health, enjoying coming to work, because one person can cause that whole.
David Roman [00:45:59]:
Thing to oh, boy, can make it miserable forever.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:46:02]:
Those are the things that I talking to you, David.
David Roman [00:46:04]:
I'm trying to get him to tell me how to fix.
Lucas Underwood [00:46:08]:
So David and I have had some really hardcore heart to hearts after we've.
David Roman [00:46:14]:
Had he says this a lot in the podcast. We had this heart. My really good friend. You know what we figured out yesterday? He doesn't have any friends. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:46:23]:
Just David.
David Roman [00:46:24]:
That makes sense. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:46:26]:
And he hates me, and I hate him, and it works out pretty well.
David Roman [00:46:29]:
His one friend. So I'll tell him constantly, I hate you.
Lucas Underwood [00:46:33]:
That's why we're friends. And so especially lately.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:46:40]:
You just got shorter. I was like, what happened?
David Roman [00:46:42]:
I know.
Lucas Underwood [00:46:42]:
It's terrible, these chairs, man, did I deflate?
David Roman [00:46:45]:
Did I depress you? This is my one friend.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:46:49]:
Is he now considered below average height?
Lucas Underwood [00:46:51]:
Yeah, I did that to make you feel better. We've had people on the show, and we've talked about how successful they've been, and they've shared these things that they've been through and these steps that they took and that they've worked really hard. But then it becomes pretty clear, like, they're looking at their team, and they're saying, you're a number, and here's what I need from you.
David Roman [00:47:16]:
Even though they don't say it, the mechanics of it still come down to you're. Just a piece of the puzzle. And the puzzle isn't right. You don't fit. You're gone. It, I think, the best way, just like how you put it, holistically. It's not just the numbers, because yeah, you have somebody that's I think the most pivotaling the group. It does affect your mentality and your approach.
Lucas Underwood [00:47:53]:
I think the most pivotal thing you've ever said to me, though, was me or him? You was, is this really what this has to be like? For me to find that success, for me to go to that next step, I have to become ruthless. Do I have to become somebody that I want?
David Roman [00:48:14]:
I said it nice when I said it's. The dog in you. You got to have that dog in you. Of course. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:48:20]:
I'm just saying.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:48:21]:
But, I mean, even as a single operator, you have to have fight in you.
David Roman [00:48:24]:
No, you can be a ball of mush and still run a shop. Not well, not successfully in the traditional sense.
Lucas Underwood [00:48:35]:
We see a lot of them.
David Roman [00:48:37]:
No, not really. Quite a few. I think they either have the dog in them. I think even they even do have the dog in them. I think the biggest thing that holds them back is, like, he was saying, I want to be the man. I want to be the guy. And so everything's got to come to me. Everything.
David Roman [00:48:55]:
And I think that's most of people I think it's really rare to find a mush ball that just I got to get up and go somewhere. And so that's what you do. You know who was like that? He doesn't listen to podcast. So doesn't dude from Nebraska with his wife. That was always like what was his name? Kirk? Kurt. Kurt. I don't remember. Nice people.
David Roman [00:49:23]:
Sweet people. They really are sweet people. But he that dude did not have a dog in him at all in any way, shape or form, I think in some capacity.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:49:33]:
Even if to start a business, you have to have something, right? There's something there regardless if you're a mushball or not, you had enough to do something because 95% of the world don't even go that far.
Lucas Underwood [00:49:47]:
Well, I mean, look at how many technicians we see that are going out and starting a mobile thing. They're going out and they're starting their own business and they don't understand what's associated with it. I'm sure you've seen it. I know we've seen it. A lot of them that later come back and say like, holy shit, I did not know what I was getting into.
David Roman [00:50:05]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:50:05]:
And then they never transitioned to owner. They remain.
David Roman [00:50:11]:
Bad. What's wrong with that, though? I don't think there's nothing wrong with it. Self employed, then.
Lucas Underwood [00:50:17]:
That's probably the conversation we had with Nathan yesterday, is that at that point you have to decide, like, I don't want to say it doesn't have value, but this is never going to be more than a job, right. Or if it's going to, he has.
David Roman [00:50:30]:
Accepted it and embraced it and kudos to him for it.
Lucas Underwood [00:50:33]:
Absolutely. That's something extremely hard to do when you get to that point and you realize that. And I think it's going to suit him well. The fact that he embraced that, hey, I've got a disability policy, because if something happens to me, the business is no more. That's it, it's done. I know that, right. I've got life insurance for that reason. And so I think if you're in that spot, you at least have to embrace it and you have to say like, hey, I'm not going to be more.
Lucas Underwood [00:51:00]:
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And so I think that's what gives me hope of the idea if I ever decide to expand to multiple stores is that I was there at one point and I never saw myself where I'm at right now. And then, so now I went from three bays to ten bays and I never saw the revenue and I never thought that I would have the potential that I have right now. And so now I feel like, oh well, maybe I can go to the next level. Maybe I do have opportunity to do something more. I'm bad to question myself. So I'm always like, maybe I shouldn't have gone with a shop that big. Maybe I should have done this, maybe I should have done that.
David Roman [00:51:37]:
I told him not to. I thought he thought he was nuts, but whatever, it worked out pretty cool. Did it? Yeah, you just started it. What are you talking about?
Lucas Underwood [00:51:46]:
It worked out pretty cool because you're going to have your very own podcast studio when you sell your shop for a case of honey buns. I've got an office for you. You can just sit in it, complain and moan and bitch all day.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:51:57]:
That kind of goes back to resetting the goal, though. You never thought you could do this. You achieved it, and then you're like.
David Roman [00:52:03]:
Okay, see, that's the part that I feel is contrived. You have to reset the goal. Like, I don't want to reset anything.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:52:09]:
There's nothing wrong with that.
David Roman [00:52:12]:
No, there is something wrong.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:52:16]:
Not everybody wants to go 100 miles an hour.
David Roman [00:52:20]:
I'm saying that the struggle has to be there, and it has to be there because otherwise you succumb to apathy. And you see these people, they're like, I had this dear friend. I love him to death. His name's scott. He's the coolest guy you will ever meet in your life. That guy spends the entire day playing on his computer, gaming or whatever, and smokes a lot of weed. And he does drugs recreationally on the weekends. That's this fun thing.
David Roman [00:52:59]:
That's all he does in his parents basement. He's not a kid. He's in his 30s, but that's all he's done. That's all he's ever done, and that's all he'll ever do. His parents will die. Leave him some money. They have a lot. They'll leave him some money, and he'll spend it on but they've got it set up where he's not going to blow all of it.
David Roman [00:53:20]:
But they had to do that because they know how their son is. That is, in my estimation, wasted human existence. You're not contributing to anything. There's no struggle. The hardest part of his day is getting out of bed. That's the hardest part of his day. He's got to get out of bed now. And the only reason he gets out of bed is like, I want to get high.
David Roman [00:53:43]:
I don't want to need to sleep anymore. I want to go get some drugs. That's the whole of his existence. The nicest guy in the world, and he's so funny, and it's sad to see somebody like that, but that's just the level of apathy that if you don't have that struggle, if that struggle is not in front of you, that's what you turn into. That's what humans turn into. You see it all the time. You see it all the time. And in this country in particular, we have that luxury that we can do that.
David Roman [00:54:13]:
We can turn it into that. And even if you don't have that safety net that he has, what ends up happening, you live out in the tent, and your entire day revolves around the struggle, then becomes, I'm going to go get high, or you just go hang out in a tent and whatever, you crash. And friends people live like that. So I think you have to have that struggle. But I guess the problem is that the struggle, if it feels meaningless, it's hard for me to do it. It's hard for me to go in, and I'm going to give it my all because that goal I don't care about that goal. Yeah, it's so like at the end of the day, we're just meatbags. We're going to die.
David Roman [00:55:10]:
Because he talks about legacy all the time. It's like, yeah, in 100 years, nobody's going to remember you. At best, you'll be a plaque on the wall and you'll be a slide on somebody's presentation in 1942. My grandparents. You see what I'm saying? I'm sorry I was making fun of you.
Lucas Underwood [00:55:31]:
So here's what's interesting is, like, I look at you, right, the numbers don't mean anything to him, right? And I sit here and I'm not even at the shop. And it's kind of like a game for me. I'm looking at the numbers, I'm like, we can do better, we can do better, we can do better. Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, right? I enjoy that. It has nothing to do with beating my team up to get the numbers. I enjoy that challenge. I enjoy seeing what we're capable of. I enjoy pushing things to its absolute limits.
Lucas Underwood [00:55:57]:
I remember when I was a little kid, man, I used to take my little tonga trucks and I would load them with dirt as heavy as I could to see if they would turn over and I would see how much dirt I could put in them and push them up on a hill before they turned over. I love that. That's my thing. And like, you you don't care. You're just like, I don't care if it makes money. I just have to have this to pay the bills.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:56:17]:
So he does care if it makes money because he has to have this.
Lucas Underwood [00:56:22]:
I don't even know if he cares about that.
David Roman [00:56:24]:
Yeah, well, it gets stressful when you don't. I started the business because I was unemployable. I couldn't go work for someone else making the decisions. I saw the business, the organization turn in a direction that I couldn't jive with. I fought it for forever and it was depressing. And I remember sitting in the car just willing myself to go into work because I didn't want to do this anymore and I never wanted to feel that way again. So I end up opening up my own business and I was in the field and I'm going to open a shop that's different and treats people well and doesn't sell the flesh, that whole thing. I was the same thing.
David Roman [00:57:15]:
But over the years, you do like, okay, I've got a model built here that I can pay the bills, and now I've got a model that I can make some money and that's all fine, but at some point, you're like, okay, so we did this much this year. All of a sudden, you're like, you look at next year and you're like, so we're going to go do more. Okay, why? What's the point? Why do I care? And now it's an interesting perspective that you said, okay, well, we can improve the lives of more people. I don't know that I've improved their lives I've given them somewhere that's interesting to work at. It's comfortable and I want to see it as a vehicle towards something different because that's what it is for me.
Matthew Lachowitzer [00:58:18]:
But comfortable is not going to be a vehicle to different. It's going to be status quo because that's what comfort is.
David Roman [00:58:25]:
I'm okay with status quo. I'm okay with status quo. The status quo. However, there has to be a certain threshold it can't dip down. It cannot be apathy or even indifference. Can't be below the line cannot be below. But the line is very low. It's low because for me, I need to find something to challenge me to struggle against.
David Roman [00:58:55]:
But for me it's like I'm looking for interesting things to do. The challenge for me is how do I raise my kids properly? The challenge for me is how do I maintain my spiritual well being? The challenge for me is different in that I don't necessarily care about making an extra quarter mil next year. I don't care if I do great. If I don't, it's whatever. I don't want to have to not pay the bill. I want to get the bills paid right. But I don't know that just paying the bills or whatever like expanding out and just having more people in there. I'm having a hard time making my staff understand.
David Roman [00:59:40]:
Not all of them, but some of them just don't get it. They don't get it. I want to get comfortable. The line is very low. Underneath that line is indifference. And I have one that's dipped into indifference. Okay, that's the line dear. You can't dip below the line.
David Roman [01:00:00]:
You've dipped below the line. The other ones are like, hey, I want something more. I want more challenging. And I'm trying to get them to understand. The challenge for you isn't, hey, how do I make more money? You make enough money. You make more than I ever did before I opened a shop. You do. And what are you doing? You're flipping tinkering on cars.
David Roman [01:00:24]:
You make pretty good money. So what's the next step from past that? You can pay the bills now. What's the next step? Do we find something fun and challenging and interesting? And is it racing cars? What do you like to do? For me it became podcasting. It's all like tinkering with this stuff, right. It had afforded me the business, afforded me that opportunity. I want to do that for my employees too. I don't know that that's scalable. I don't know that it is because it requires a certain level of intimate knowledge of that person to make it viable.
David Roman [01:01:08]:
Does that make sense?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:01:09]:
Yeah. That's where I talked earlier about if that culture continues to come down through the leadership to everyone, it is sustainable. I've got 108 employees and I can say it is sustainable. Now if I had 30 stores, it's going to be more challenging, obviously. But with 108 people it's there and I can.
David Roman [01:01:30]:
Tell you that it's there, but we've.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:01:32]:
Made it a priority in our company. That's the difference.
David Roman [01:01:38]:
I 100% understand what you're saying, and I believe it to my core, what I'm questioning, and it's because I'm not there. You're there, you know? I don't know. What I'm wondering is that I can't do this, and I have five employees at 108. It's going to get diluted. It is. And it's because the mindset that most people carry is it's normal to think, I want to make more money. My challenge to my staff was, what are you going to do with it? I don't know. And I had this conversation with my text.
David Roman [01:02:27]:
I go, Listen, the more money just turns into nicer hotels, that's it. It's no longer Fairfield Inn. Now you're staying at the Marriott. What's wrong with the Fairfield Inn? Nothing is wrong with the Fairfield Inn. It's a bed. It's a bed with a shower and a toilet, but so is the JW. Marriott is as well. The only difference is the maids will come in and they will fold your clothes.
David Roman [01:02:56]:
If you throw them on the floor, they will come in and they'll fold your clothes. I don't stay in hotels like that. They don't fold my clothes. That's the only difference. Am I wrong?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:03:08]:
At the end of the day, though, I think the question becomes, is your mindset, like, you feel like it's enough and you're trying to push that mindset onto your team, and I don't know that.
David Roman [01:03:21]:
No, you're right. Exactly. They don't get it.
Lucas Underwood [01:03:27]:
Should they get it, though?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:03:28]:
That's what I was just going to say. Should they get it? Because I'm not you and they're not you.
David Roman [01:03:33]:
Exactly. Hold on. Now you're speaking out of both side of your mouth because you say, my culture is then I set the tone. 108 people later, I've got 108 people that are understanding of what it is. I'm trying. I'm telling you that's my culture and what I'm having difficulty in is because it's so counterintuitive. It's counterintuitive the face that my tech made. He's like, what do you mean? They're just nicer hotels, dear.
David Roman [01:04:10]:
You still go on vacation once or twice a year. You still go wherever the hell it is you want to go. It's just you stay in nicer hotels.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:04:17]:
But that's your view of it. Yes. You can have the culture go all the way through, and still, if this person wants to make more money, you coach them, you develop them and you get them.
David Roman [01:04:27]:
No, they wouldn't come work for me. He'd say, I'm freaking him out. His eyes just went, what are you talking about? He doesn't get it. I'm telling you, it's flipping weird.
Lucas Underwood [01:04:39]:
Look, are you not used to that by now? What's that like, when people's eyes do this funny look, I see so many.
David Roman [01:04:47]:
I need answers. I'm looking for something that can give me some answers.
Lucas Underwood [01:04:51]:
But, I mean, if you're unwilling to accept the answer.
David Roman [01:04:54]:
The answer is the crazy eyes. That's what I get. They're like, what are you talking about? This is just insane. If somebody wants to make more money, if they come to me and, like, I'd like to make more money, my first reaction is, you're staying at the wrong hotel. What's that?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:05:09]:
That you tell them they're staying at the wrong hotel.
David Roman [01:05:11]:
I'm done telling them what for I can understand.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:05:16]:
But that's your opinion, though.
David Roman [01:05:18]:
It's not just my opinion. It is the philosophy that drives my life. It's not just an opinion. It's like, Dude, you don't need more money, because the more money just translates into more shit. Like, what do you need more shit for? Who needs more shit? What's wrong with your shoes? The shoes that you have now, what's wrong with them? Oh, I want a second pair, and I want them to be Jordans. Why question it? That's all I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with the Jordans if you're wearing Jordan, there's nothing wrong with the Jordans. There's nothing wrong with the Jordans.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:05:58]:
So I'm just curious. Don't take this the wrong way. What does your job post look like? Is it like, do you never want to make more?
David Roman [01:06:04]:
Yes.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:06:05]:
Like, is that what it reads?
David Roman [01:06:06]:
Because that's my you sat in my class, dude. I saw you sat in my class. I have some weird ass ads, but you don't have to get responses. I'm saying, like, if I had somebody that came in and said, look, I don't care about the money. I don't want to work weekends. I want it to be flipping air conditioning. I love working on cars, and I don't want to talk to customers. And that guy would get hired on the spot.
David Roman [01:06:31]:
On the spot. I'd ask him, do you have tools in the toolbox? And he'd say, yeah, Archie, by the way. Oh, that was a whole thing, too. Oh, it was a whole thing.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:06:42]:
But money is one component of that, because all the things you just rallied off, my ten stores offer that plus growth opportunities, mentorship, coaching.
David Roman [01:06:50]:
Yeah, sure, I have all that, too.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:06:52]:
So we all have the same growth opportunities.
David Roman [01:06:54]:
But again, I would question, what is that you want to grow into? Do you not like working on cars? Yeah, I don't like working on cars. But the only thing I will say is that once they age out, you've got somewhere to put them where I don't.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:07:08]:
Growth opportunity is financial, though, too. Growth opportunity is, am I going to be able to retire because of the cost of living?
David Roman [01:07:16]:
That's the different conversation that I have with them. I'll give you a raise. It's going into your retirement. You don't see a dime. And that's the reaction I get. And I go, what do you mean? Do you need a new car? I'll get you a new car because you need it. The cars that you have is broken down. We'll get you a new car.
David Roman [01:07:37]:
Do you need shoes? You probably don't, but I buy my technician shoes. I do. I buy them shoes. Hey, those shoes a little worn out. You need a new pair. Guess what? Expense line. You know why I don't make money? I buy my technician shoes. You know what? I don't spend it on flipping payroll.
David Roman [01:07:56]:
Could care less. And I'm just saying, like, if you need something, that's a different conversation, and it's not that, hey, I need you to run all your expenses through me. That is not it. And I tow a line there because I understand that may it sound come off that way, and to my technician it probably does, but I don't want it to be that way. I want them to go, hey, I really like to my goal is to buy a house. Okay, that 100%. Okay, let's make that happen. Obviously, I cannot pay your mortgage for you, although I sort of do.
David Roman [01:08:31]:
Right. That has to be the specific number of income that you have to hit in order for your mortgage to be viable. What's that number got to be? Let's figure this out. Go find, look, some houses. What area do you want to live in? What's that number got to be? Let's get you to that number. That's a conversation. I will put more money into their paycheck, but the rest of this BS. It's BS.
David Roman [01:08:54]:
I will pay you more, but it needs to go into your retirement.
Lucas Underwood [01:08:57]:
I am beginning to get concerned. I've long known that you were no, I've long known that you were delusional.
David Roman [01:09:06]:
Okay? I've always just I'm not crazy mother effort. No, it's not you.
Lucas Underwood [01:09:12]:
No, I'm just saying look, I'm just saying that I am starting to be more and more concerned that this is all just an effort to subvert paying taxes. That your whole focus has become for so long, like, I don't want to pay taxes on anything that you're literally.
David Roman [01:09:29]:
Building your entire I have a metaphysical opposition to paying taxes. I find the entire thing just absurd. But regardless, past that, you do end up still, like, you buy something, you pay taxes on it, you still end up paying taxes. Regardless, I pay property taxes. On and on and on it goes. I'm just saying I want the technicians to view employment and work differently than just it gives me more money so I can buy nicer shit to impress people I don't know on Facebook.
Lucas Underwood [01:10:12]:
What do you think when he says that there's a lot to unpack there?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:10:17]:
Yeah.
David Roman [01:10:25]:
Who picked your music?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:10:26]:
It was Apple Music. Just decided to start playing.
David Roman [01:10:31]:
Bro.
Lucas Underwood [01:10:31]:
If that's the worst thing that happens on this show, you win all of the good episodes. It's fine.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:10:39]:
I guess. Still, I'm trying to unpack this a little bit because the look I gave you, that's the best way I could say it.
David Roman [01:10:48]:
You gave me crazy eyes. I did.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:10:50]:
I glazed over and he's like I.
David Roman [01:10:52]:
Felt him coming out of my head almost.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:10:54]:
I'm like, what is going on over here?
David Roman [01:10:57]:
We got him on video. It's going to be awesome.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:10:59]:
Just don't make any memes about it.
Lucas Underwood [01:11:02]:
You don't come on this show. Not expecting to leave a meme.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:11:05]:
Okay. Am I going to get a sticker or something?
David Roman [01:11:07]:
We have stickers. I have it on video. What are you talking about?
Lucas Underwood [01:11:17]:
I love introducing people to you that have never met you before because it happens so frequently. The crazy eyes and you don't pick up on 90% of them. He was just so appalled that he just couldn't control it.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:11:31]:
I kind of want to reach her over, but I held myself back.
David Roman [01:11:36]:
I think the big physically attack me. I thought it'll be like that. It is rare that we get through an episode without somebody threatening physical violence against me. It happens all the time. What are you talking about?
Lucas Underwood [01:11:55]:
Seriously? Unpack it. What do you think?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:11:58]:
I guess the first thing I think of is, okay, if I'm a technician working for you and I want to make more money because I love music or I want to go tour the country or I want to go to every concert there is, you're going to tell me that's a waste of my money?
David Roman [01:12:11]:
No.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:12:12]:
Kind of the vibe I get out of that. Why do you need two pairs of shoes? Why do you need an extra pair of this?
David Roman [01:12:18]:
I get that.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:12:20]:
Micromanaging your people to deter growth. No, I would challenge I want a bigger house. That's my right as a damn American.
David Roman [01:12:30]:
Yeah, I get that.
Lucas Underwood [01:12:31]:
Absolutely.
David Roman [01:12:32]:
I get that.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:12:33]:
But you're telling me it's not my right because it's not your philosophy.
David Roman [01:12:39]:
And that's fine.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:12:40]:
There's nothing wrong with your philosophy.
David Roman [01:12:43]:
You're saying that there is? Yeah. But I think the never ending drive towards more just for the sake of more, I think is spiritually bankrupt, and.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:12:58]:
I think I will agree with that.
David Roman [01:12:59]:
But I don't wake up everybody.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:13:01]:
I don't wake up every day. It's like how I need more. I need more. That's not my wiring. And I don't think there's a lot of shop owners that are wired that way.
David Roman [01:13:09]:
A lot of business. I've never met one who wasn't really.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:13:12]:
Yes, there's a lot that aren't.
David Roman [01:13:17]:
How do you set your goals then, if it's not more?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:13:21]:
Goals are different from me wanting more, though. At the end of the day, more can be my team grew. My team made more money. We had a bigger impact on our community.
David Roman [01:13:30]:
It's still more, though.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:13:32]:
Yeah, but it's positive more.
David Roman [01:13:34]:
It's not oh, we're putting value on it. Where you're saying that's a positive?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:13:41]:
I'm looking at if you're telling me that if you made a quarter million dollars more and you granted some make A Wish kids wish, you wouldn't feel good about that.
David Roman [01:13:49]:
Because at the end of the day, I'm doing it to make me feel good about. But you need you made an extra quarter million dollars.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:13:56]:
You need more to do that, though.
David Roman [01:14:01]:
If you're more to do that, you do need more. You do need more. And you're right. You're absolute that's a good objection. Hey, I want to go travel the country. I want to go hit some concerts up. I have no problem with that. If that's what you want to do, then great.
David Roman [01:14:23]:
I want to have that conversation with you, though. I want to have the conversation of the conversation can't come to me going, hey, I want to make more money because my rebuttal is always going to be why? And if it's I love playing music and I want to go travel with my band or I want to go hit all these concerts, I want to go, okay, but let's come up with a way to make that happen.
Lucas Underwood [01:14:48]:
But why do you need to be in control of it, though?
David Roman [01:14:50]:
It's not because I don't want it to be. At the end of the day, does money need to be involved? Yeah. I don't want the conversation to be centered around I want to make more money because the singular drive to hit that number at the end of the year on your tax return, your AGI has to be higher. Higher. That is nothing wrong with having that goal. Nothing wrong with it. That person couldn't work for me because it is so diametrically opposed to how I handle life and money and business and all that stuff. There are 1000 shops you can go work for, dude, and you're going to be wildly successful at those shops.
David Roman [01:15:37]:
You're going to go kill it.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:15:38]:
So what you need to do is fire everybody and clone yourself and then.
Lucas Underwood [01:15:42]:
You should have no, you're talking about a pretty small percentage.
David Roman [01:15:45]:
Yeah. I'm saying, though, that you were able to find 108 people that shared your culture or you could at least infuse that culture into them. I'm saying I just need to find five or six.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:15:59]:
But your pool is smaller because of the way you look at this. I know it's your thought process. It's your way of doing it. And that's fine because it's your way. It's like his way is going to be different my way. But you have to find the people that fit that culture, fit that model.
Lucas Underwood [01:16:16]:
It just seems like it's going to be really tough.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:16:18]:
It's going to be tough.
David Roman [01:16:20]:
That's what I was telling you.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:16:21]:
You're fishing lake that's dried up.
David Roman [01:16:24]:
It's terrible.
Lucas Underwood [01:16:25]:
Then why do it, though?
David Roman [01:16:28]:
I cannot do it any other way.
Lucas Underwood [01:16:30]:
Why?
David Roman [01:16:33]:
He's stubborn. Stubbornness is absolutely part of it. But I have to control of everything. No, it's not control. It's not control. It has nothing to do with linda, listen, listen.
Lucas Underwood [01:16:53]:
I work with you on almost a daily basis.
David Roman [01:16:58]:
I am controlling of things I care about. Yes, but that's my point.
Lucas Underwood [01:17:02]:
That's an understatement.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:17:04]:
I want them care about this. That's why you're controlling it.
David Roman [01:17:08]:
I do care.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:17:09]:
Look how fired up you get talking about you care about it.
David Roman [01:17:12]:
There's no question it's control. You haven't seen fired up, dear. I care about my employees. I care about the mindset. But at the end of the day, what I'm trying to do, I have to go out and find customers. I have to provide for me to feel good about the transaction. I have to feel that I'm over delivering on value. Does that make sense? Absolutely.
David Roman [01:17:47]:
I have to feel like I'm over delivering on value. I'm giving you more than what you're paying for. Otherwise it doesn't work. I feel icky. Okay? But I still have to charge enough to make things sustainable. Okay. So the value that I'd provide has to be more, but the number has to be that you're bringing back to me has to be a sustainable dollar amount. All of that has 8000 variables floating around.
David Roman [01:18:14]:
Little things that I have to do. I got to get the marketing right. I got to make sure that the phone calls are being answered properly, and we have to make sure that we're talking to them. All those little things, there's like, 1000 little steps that then result in money coming into the shop. There's so much work for me. It has been since I opened. So much work put into just getting one person to come in through the door and pay me money. So much work, blood, sweat, and tears that now that money is sitting there, and it can't in my mind, like, do you know how hard all of us work to get that dollar in there? You just want more of it to do what? You want to go buy a nicer car? You have a nice Toyota.
David Roman [01:19:02]:
You want a Lexus now? If that's what you really want, okay.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:19:08]:
Are you sure you're okay with that?
David Roman [01:19:10]:
Well, yeah. See, there you go. I would be a little bit miffed if they had a really nice Camry and they wanted to go buy an Es. Like, why do you need the yes? What are you doing with that? And at the end of the day, if that was like, they told me the stories, like, well, my dad died when he really would like, he had this Lexus, and they told me some mush story, and I'll turn into a ball of mushroom. We're like, okay, let's go get to the Lexus. Let's make it happen for you. The goal for me, I need them to articulate, and I need them to question their own motives and their own goals because I think there has to be a higher purpose to it than just I want more money. It has to be a higher purpose than that.
Lucas Underwood [01:19:58]:
Almost like it comes back to the conversation where we always talk about the $100,000 technician. 100,000 is an arbitrary number. It doesn't mean anything, but everybody wants 100,000. Every shop owner wants to break a million.
David Roman [01:20:09]:
Every shop owner wants to break a million. Yeah. Every technician wants to make 100,000. The question is why? And if there's higher purpose to it, then the goal is irrelevant ultimately. But the higher purpose behind it, the story behind it, that is more important to me and therefore worthy of the dollars that we work so hard to get in the door.
Lucas Underwood [01:20:39]:
I don't mean to interrupt, but does this come down to solely that you work so hard for that money, you have an unhealthy relationship with that money.
David Roman [01:20:50]:
It's not just me, I don't do squat.
Lucas Underwood [01:20:52]:
I know, but it's the fact that because we had this conversation the other day and he got super like he said, this is not upset as we had the conversation the other day and he got super mad at me because my family business is right next to my first shop. And all we did was we put a sign up and said we fixed cars. And so cars started rolling in and I was terrible at it. I mean, like absolutely terrible at fixing cars. I'm not any better today, but my team's pretty good at it. And so then we built a bigger shop and the clients came in and so for him that's frustrating because he's worked his ass off just to get the clients he has. Now, is that playing into how you feel about this is because you have.
David Roman [01:21:39]:
I see all the effort you put behind your marketing and all that stuff.
Lucas Underwood [01:21:42]:
I know, but I'm saying.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:21:45]:
I came up, I'm oldest of six kids. I grew up in 1200 people on a farm. I had nothing. There was nights we ran out of food. So you talked about that fighter, that.
David Roman [01:21:56]:
Drive whatever that dog in your head.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:21:58]:
That came from probably that it had to have. But my question for you is you talked about your surpassing the value of your clients. Have you thought about what that looks like to your employees? Like what their expectation of pressing what you pay them is, what drives them?
David Roman [01:22:18]:
Yeah, I do think about that, but.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:22:22]:
Not always going to be money with.
David Roman [01:22:24]:
All these people, but I don't want it to be money.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:22:26]:
Are you exceeding their expectations? Because that's how you build a team that shows up.
David Roman [01:22:32]:
What's that do you know that?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:22:33]:
Do you talk to them?
David Roman [01:22:38]:
But that doesn't always stay. I had one that it changed what he valued and what he saw as important shifted and what I was delivering was no longer enough value to him. Well, life well, at that point we're now having to split ways here because this is what I do, this is what I provide. If that's not good value for you, I understand. But at that point we got to split ways. But that's why you want to make sure, like you were saying, that 108 people have to share that culture, it doesn't work. Otherwise. At 108 or 1000 innate or even at like 10,000, it's still sustainable.
David Roman [01:23:31]:
But you do get to a point where it gets watered down, trust me.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:23:34]:
Well, you just have to continue to build a culture. I always tell people, like, I can ask my people to bury the body. I can ask them to lock arm and run through a wall and they're all going to do it. And it's because it's continuously trickled down. Our values are that important to us, but we also spend the time to make sure that as their goals change, as their life changes, as things happen, we make adjustments because we have the ability to do that. Because not every person don't take this wrong way. I feel like you're trying to make a cookie cutter. Like this is how every one of my technicians, you're all the same and they're not.
Lucas Underwood [01:24:07]:
Yeah, I can see that.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:24:09]:
I don't know, please don't take that the wrong way.
David Roman [01:24:11]:
But no, that's how it feels to.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:24:12]:
Me is like every one of these guys is the same cutout and they're not their life could change tomorrow and they're going to be like, hey, I need this, or hey I need that. And you're like, well, no.
David Roman [01:24:24]:
Why?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:24:25]:
That's not really sustainable.
David Roman [01:24:27]:
It's not a no, but it's a why, but there's always a why.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:24:30]:
But is it sustainable to confront? Because to me that comes across a little confrontational. Maybe I don't feel comfortable sharing the why with you.
David Roman [01:24:39]:
Yeah, but if you're not willing to open up and share, then you're not going to work for me. I don't need them to spill their guts. I don't need them to spill their guts. But I do want them to at least share in the goals and motivation and desires and the needs and the wants. Because at the end of the day, I don't want it to just be, here's your paycheck, go spend it wisely and then that's it. And then you have technicians that sometimes struggle with their pay. They're making bank and they can't pay their bills. What the hell is happening here? What's wrong? I'm not judging the guy.
David Roman [01:25:30]:
I have a problem with the guy having a fund for his employees that they can tap into to borrow money on.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:25:38]:
It doesn't promote financial security or that you care.
David Roman [01:25:44]:
Yeah, financial. I forced all of my staff to get a retirement plan. I forced all of them. This is how it's going to be. They're all auto enrolled. Yeah, same. And then I gave them the option to do a post tax retirement set up so that they would have both untaxed or already been taxed money that they can pull out of retirement and then money that they have to pay taxes on. I wanted them to have both.
David Roman [01:26:14]:
I want them to all be millionaires. Once you retire, you leave the shop, you can go do whatever the hell you want to do, okay? Go spend your money on stupid stuff. Whatever you want to go piss it away, great. All I'm saying is that you come in to my shop and if your desire is, I want to buy a pair of Jordans, but even then, I have no problem with the pair of Jordans.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:26:39]:
Are you sure?
Lucas Underwood [01:26:40]:
It kind of seems.
David Roman [01:26:45]:
Like but it's.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:26:46]:
Not important to you.
David Roman [01:26:47]:
It's fickle.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:26:48]:
It's not important to you.
David Roman [01:26:49]:
It's not important to anybody. I'm sorry. It's not. It's bolt, then baloney. All you're doing is feeding billions of dollars into a billionaire for no flipping reason than to just show it off for people you don't even know. You don't even know these people. What do you care that they see that you have Jordans on? You look stupid.
Lucas Underwood [01:27:07]:
Do you think it's because you got bullied when you were a kid that you're like this? Did you not get Jordans?
David Roman [01:27:14]:
Oh, I didn't get Jordans. You know what it was when I was a kid? It was the pumps. Reebok pumps. Yeah, with a little thing on the back.
Lucas Underwood [01:27:20]:
Did you not get those?
David Roman [01:27:21]:
I did not get those, no. Well, I got them eventually, but they had been at the them I got them with the outlet.
Lucas Underwood [01:27:31]:
Is that where this comes from?
David Roman [01:27:32]:
No. You would think that I would want the Jordans now and that I'd be walking around with Jordans and be like, look at my sweet Jordans. I'd be showing it off to my technicians. They're like, One day you can have one of these. In the meantime, you can look at mine.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:27:47]:
That's a terrible idea to do.
David Roman [01:27:52]:
Don't ever do that. If the perception from technicians is the meme, you've seen the meme they pull up in the Lambo and they're like, hey, if you work real hard and you give it your all, I'm going to buy me a second one next year. You see that meme? Yeah. That's the perception of ownership from technicians. That's how they see us. That's how they see us. It's just another lambo. It's just another vacation house.
David Roman [01:28:24]:
It's just another dot, dot, dot.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:28:27]:
But the ones that you engage and you make part of your culture and you really involve them, they also understand the risk that we took as owners. I would say out of 108 employees, 100 of them understand the risk that I took as opening this company.
David Roman [01:28:44]:
Sure.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:28:45]:
But I'm not afraid to communicate that with them. I'm not afraid to communicate full transparency. They know what it takes to turn the lights on every day. They know what it takes to open the garage doors up and turn the AC on and pay for the scans. They know all of it. And once they understand that, their mindset shifts. I don't ever get asked, hardly, for raises, ever. And it's not because we don't give them.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:29:08]:
It's not because we have whatever. It's because we show them the path and we do the regular one to ones and we figure out what's important to them and we align our goals with theirs, because that's how everyone wins. And I want to win. It's not just about money. It's about did I put a better person out in the world that worked for me for two years or six years or 15 years. That's for me, what's important, and that's what we should be looking at is are we putting better people out into the workforce? For sure.
Lucas Underwood [01:29:38]:
The world?
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:29:38]:
Are we creating better fathers, husbands, coworkers? That's what's important.
Lucas Underwood [01:29:43]:
Giving them the tools to become better people.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:29:46]:
And if the money's part of that.
David Roman [01:29:47]:
So freaking be it. I like that, though. I think he changed. I think this whole conversation changed because that sounded really good. I like that. That's very much me. Maybe I just did a terrible job in the last hour of articulating getting that. One day, if it just happens to be the money, that's great.
Lucas Underwood [01:30:04]:
One day we're going to have a psychologist on this show and I'm pack that. I'm quite concerned that they're probably going to overload and stroke out.
Matthew Lachowitzer [01:30:14]:
Probably get the prescription done for them, too. It.