Tom Riddle's Horcruxes: What Are They, What Do They Do, Does He Have Any?

Tom Riddle's Horcruxes serve as important MacGuffins for the last two books of the Harry Potter franchise. Much to do is made about finding and destroying these objects in book 6 and especially book 7. However, a terrifying question exists, were any of them really Horcruxes and how do we know? 

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Discussion, analysis, and exotic opinions surrounding fandoms like Twilight, Star Wars, Harry Potter, the MCU, and far too many animes.

[00:00] Vinelle: Welcome to the newest episode of Rank Heresy. We are Vinnell and can everybody smuffin. And today we are going to talk about horcruxes specifically Tom Riddle's horcruxes. Right off the bat with the introduction to this episode as we will first be talking a bit about what we know of horcruxes and then going through the horcruxes he allegedly created. We have two sources of information about horcruxes in canon. They are obustumbledore in half Blood Prince and Hermione reading from most evil in Deathly Hallows. There is also horse Slughorn in a memory, but he.

[00:36] The Carnivorous Muffin: He doesn't say anything.

[00:38] Vinelle: Yeah, it's.

[00:39] The Carnivorous Muffin: He just says, well, in theory, you could make seven, I guess. And then he disappears.

[00:45] Vinelle: It was a very non sequitur. And I. We have thoughts, not memory. But those are not for this episode. But suffice to say, Slughorn's contribution will be excluded here because it adds nothing. What Dumbledore tells us is that a horcrux is the container of a soul created when you kill someone. And it can take any form. It can be organic, non organic, living, nonliving. Eve mentions one way of destroying them which is with pathless venom. And he doesn't say much else. He doesn't give Harry a checklist of how to identify a Horcrux. He doesn't give any traits what to look out for. There's only. He very vaguely talks about how the diary, you know, acted Horcrux like, I guess I'm. And Nagini is smart, a very smart snake. There is no I tested for this and that and that is how I knew. Only psychology. Tom Riddle would have wanted to put his soul in this object or that object.

[01:39] The Carnivorous Muffin: Things he also knew Tom had come into contact with.

[01:43] Vinelle: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Harry is given more of a psychological profile of Tom Riddle to deduce what might be a Horcrux rather than an objective. Here is how you will know if this is a Horcrux or not which is apparently how Dumbledore wants Tom to be defeated. And Hermione then reading a book that tamwoltar very much intended for her to find. She doesn't really add anything. It's pretty much a recap for readers who missed the half blood prince which tells us that you create them by killing someone. You stuff your soul and now you can't be killed. And if you want to reunite your soul, then you feel remorse. And she says not much beyond that. Only she does, incidentally, reveal a somewhat lacking reading comprehension.

[02:26] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's so bad.

[02:28] Vinelle: She explains to Ron that, okay, the difference between a Horcrux and you is that if I were to run my swords through you right now, you would die, but your soul would be fine. Or Horcrux, however, would die. I guess JKR was trying to go for some kind of. But their soul would also die. But that is not what Hermione actually says.

[02:47] The Carnivorous Muffin: How does she know? I mean, I guess her book told her that magic most evil's author solved one of the greatest mysteries of mankind. Religion is kaput. Cause we figured it out.

[02:59] Vinelle: Yeah, I guess somebody must have been standing in a lab and testing with this soul device. A soul measuring device. What happens to the Horcrux when you kill them? And then that horrible, horrible, unethical scientist moves on to real people and measures what happens to them.

[03:14] The Carnivorous Muffin: Except if we had a soul Geiger counter, we would probably be using it to detect the horcruxes.

[03:21] Vinelle: Naoma Finn, do not come here with reason and logic. We do not want that.

[03:25] The Carnivorous Muffin: We do not want that here. I also do love. I mean, Jake Harris, not the only one who does this. And I think it's like just one of those things you have to put up with, you know, these weird recaps you get at the beginning of these, especially the young adult twelve book long series of previously and last episode. Was I actually supposed to be able to skip half Blood Prince entirely?

[03:48] Vinelle: I did remember.

[03:50] The Carnivorous Muffin: Oh, yeah, you did. Yeah, you're fine.

[03:52] Vinelle: I had read the first four books, and then this was in 2008, so I went to the bookshop looking for half plus. No, I think it was order the phoenix I wanted to read, but, you know, it was just the walls were lined with definitely hallows instead. Oh, I guess I'll read that one. I am in the mountains. I have no access to other bookshops. It was Easter. Or maybe not Easter. I don't remember when. Pretty sure it was Easter. And only deathly Hallows. It went fine. My big point of confusion was I couldn't figure out how everyone was related because Bellatrix was Sirius Black's cousin, but she was also Draco Malfoyst's aunt, who was. What is going on with that? And how did.

[04:27] The Carnivorous Muffin: God. We didn't get into that until, like.

[04:30] Vinelle: I was so confused as well as by serious staff, because I. Then I don't remember what the justification was for that, but I remember being upset about it. I. The next book I got my hands on was book number six. So I still did not have the rundown on what had happened. What was the goddamn prophecy?

[04:46] The Carnivorous Muffin: What is this prophecy?

[04:47] Vinelle: In book five. Book five is the one that actually hurt to miss out on because Sirius's death sounded very complicated and circum. What had gone down there?

[04:58] The Carnivorous Muffin: Well, I guess it's hard to guess. He went through an evil curtain because he was pushed.

[05:03] Vinelle: It was more the. How did Harry cause it. What was creature's part in this? So Bellatrix is the one who killed him. But how were they all. Why were they at the ministry? I'm confused. Like Jake, Gareth, you want to recap things, you can either explain things so that they make sense to the annoying reader.

[05:20] The Carnivorous Muffin: You just tell them to read the last book. But yeah, I just love how she gets this. And Harry has two friends. One has bushy hair and one's a ginger. This is Ron and Hermione. They're his best friends forever. Like, if we don't know that by this point, what are we doing here? This is. You gotta know. Burana, Hermione are by this point, this is a problem. And there will also always be a recap of Henry was a sad little boy who grew up in a sad little cupboard with his mean uncles and aunt and uncle.

[05:47] Vinelle: I also remember being like, oh, there's Nordo the Phoenix. What's that about?

[05:51] The Carnivorous Muffin: What's that about? Yeah, we recap who the hell Harry is. We don't know.

[06:00] Vinelle: Every child who'd been in a playground for the past, you know, ten years would know who Ronan, Hermione were. We are very good at going off on tangents. So I will just conclude this part with.

[06:10] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's an important tangent. It's like.

[06:13] Vinelle: It's an important tangent.

[06:14] The Carnivorous Muffin: You brought it up and it bothers me. To this day of previously on Harry Potter. The last time you didn't read the book. Like, are we supposed to not read half Blood Prince? Could we have just skipped it?

[06:26] Vinelle: It feels a bit like, you know those drawer art tutorials that start, but then first you draw a circle and then a second circle and then you draw the rest of the owl? That is the sort of recap JKR is giving us.

[06:37] The Carnivorous Muffin: It is. That is too on point. First you draw a circle. See children drawing. It's just circles.

[06:43] Vinelle: I'm good at circles.

[06:44] The Carnivorous Muffin: I have a compass. And then you draw everything else. Wait a minute, I just have circles.

[06:51] Vinelle: We are just going to discredit Harry and the mental link in every hallows a little bit before we move on because the big confirmation and the way Harry knows to go to Hogwarts is that he is told from the mental link when Tom finds out about the goblet being stolen oh shit is going down and he is going to go through all of the quagrox hiding places and then finally got the Hogwarts he has been getting lead truce from Tom the entire year. Tom does not appear to be aware of these it is worth mentioning that Tom was very much aware of these two years earlier he decided to close that link in half blood prince and then the moment Dumbledore is dead Tom opens the link back up again.

[07:36] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah it's amazing how much it smells like a trap other things worth noting about that link is that we have seen Tom put through false information before and bait Harry into a trap that is what got Harry to ministry.

[07:49] Vinelle: We have also seen Tom is very. Well you basically just stole my point.

[07:55] The Carnivorous Muffin: I stole your point? I'm sorry but yeah, point it's Tom is very aware of that link he knows it's compromised from half from order of the phoenix he found out that he was initially unaware of it or seemed to be found out Harry was the spy and then started sending through false information that ultimately got Harry into a trap and then he goes radio silent for an entire year and then suddenly the link's back up except it's not telling Harry anything useful except that he's in Germany.

[08:27] Vinelle: I guess it will give him things like Harry's Tom Riddle flashbacking to when he killed his parents and Harry Tamrittle taking a photograph of the floor here's Tam Riddle killing a Muggle family. Can you believe he just did that? Here's Tam Riddle torturing Olivander and making fun of Draco Malfoy. There's things that will seem important to you but that are not actually useful if you're trying to run an organized resistance against Tom it is. It has no use whatsoever to the order. He doesn't get any strategy meetings doesn't find out the names of any spies of anyone who might be compromised or threatened he just gets these snapshots from the day in the life.

[09:10] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, but the important one is. Yeah when the goblet is stolen and Tom realizes as much Harry gets this flash that ultimately sent him to Hogwarts where what do you know? Tom is having a confrontation there. And wouldn't it be great if Harry Potter showed up instead of hiding out in the woods where Tom has been trying and failing to hunt him down for months?

[09:30] Vinelle: I would also conclude this part with that muffin and I believe of the opinion that Horcrux is. It is a piece of a soul. There's. It is not worth getting into the soul versus spirit versus body debate. But based on what we see of the diary, it seems to be able to act. It seems to have agency, thought, ability to reflect, as well as magical power. It is not simply a very precious object that sits in the corner and cries while you stab it to death.

[10:00] The Carnivorous Muffin: Doesn't even cry. It just sits there. You just imagine the tears.

[10:04] Vinelle: Yeah, well, I'm sure there are imaginary tears being shed inside of the locket and the ring and the item.

[10:10] The Carnivorous Muffin: I don't know, the locket. Sort of trolled until he died. I mean, we're gonna get into that shortly. What a way to go.

[10:16] Vinelle: I'll also say that for this episode, we're going to go into the full. Is this Horcrux for each of them?

[10:22] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah. This is important because I keep getting questions about horcruxes and things, or just various things, and there's always the. Well, guys, how do we. How do we know as a Horcrux? How do we know there were only, you know, as many as we thought there were? How do we know Harry got them all or got any of them, or were any of them horcruxes? And it's just a deep rabbit hole. I haven't wanted to go down. So this is one of those.

[10:47] Vinelle: You unlock the quest to get access.

[10:50] The Carnivorous Muffin: To 20 other quests. Aren't you happy?

[10:53] Vinelle: So the diary. Sorry, do I not get to speak this episode? Oh, no, I was just. I thought you were.

[11:01] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah. Yes.

[11:02] Vinelle: Yeah, no, go for it. I just. I, um. You sounded like you were hesitating, so I thought, oh, is this my queue?

[11:07] The Carnivorous Muffin: Oh, no.

[11:08] Vinelle: Okay.

[11:08] The Carnivorous Muffin: No. So we're going to start out with the diary, and again, like we said, this is a. Is it a Horcrux? Is it not?

[11:14] Vinelle: What happened with the diary?

[11:15] The Carnivorous Muffin: All that good stuff. So the diary we put at the top of our list of the most likely contender, and, you know, it possesses a girl. It has a clear personality. It at least believes it can become corporal by sucking her soul out or something. It's able to react to situations, formed plans. It's able to learn new information. It learns about Harry Potter, about Tom's defeat. All of this stuff that has happened from Ginny, it has Tom Riddle's memory and his presumed personality, at least as of the age of 16. And what we see is, despite Ginny trying to destroy the book with water damage, when she tries to flush it down the toilet, it doesn't work. The diary is picked up by Harry, acts fine, acts as if it has no damage, and it's only destroyed upon being stabbed with the basilisk fang by Harry in the chamber of secrets. Hold that thought. Though it is presumed destroyed upon being stabbed with the Batsis fang.

[12:09] Vinelle: One immediate secret. Oh, you can get into it later.

[12:13] The Carnivorous Muffin: But yeah, we'll get into that again, we don't know what a Horcrux is. We know it's a soul stuffed into an object, but we have no idea how it's supposed to look, how it's supposed to act, how you're supposed to recognize one. And a big problem with the diary is Tom left it with Lucius. He left his soul with Lucius Malfoy.

[12:36] Vinelle: It could be a temporary arrangement and he was just vanquished before he could pick it back up. But that's the sort of what temporary arrangement leads to. You putting your Horcrux, a piece of your soul, in Lucius Malfoy's bookshelf. If Tom was worried that the protection he had for it was compromised, then he'd be. That would be his top priority. You know, it would either be oh my God, or is I going to find my house any moment now? In which case he is going to prioritize having a safe place to be before it's going after any potters.

[13:07] The Carnivorous Muffin: We see Lucius remove it from his house himself, try to sell it to Borgen and Bergs fail, and then just put it in some random cauldron.

[13:15] Vinelle: Yeah, and you can't really say that because Dumbledore says, oh, Tom had so many horcruxes he didn't really care about the safety of this one, it was fine with it. Only Lucius and his entire family became Persona non grata forever. When Tom comes back and finds out that oh, you're so about that. My lord, I gave it to an eleven year old. And I'm hoping you're not upset about that.

[13:40] The Carnivorous Muffin: Her dad was mean to me, sir.

[13:42] Vinelle: Look, I had a vendetta with Alfie Weasley, okay? He was really important to me. In one of our fix we used the. We just went with a theory. That's frankly the only thing we can think of that Tom wanted to know what the diary needed to possess a person, if it needed people to write in it, or physical proximity was enough, he would have to give it to defeat and it would have to be someone in his inner circle so that he'd be able to access it the moment he wanted back. And someone who wouldn't compromise it. Give it away. It had to be safe. And it also wanted to be someone who wasn't going to get caught anytime soon. The Malfoys, who were very loyal or at least very self preservative.

[14:23] The Carnivorous Muffin: Self preserving.

[14:24] Vinelle: Yeah. Self preserving. Unrespected and high up family. They would be good candidates. Tom is not king of the morality police. So I'm sure Lucius was told. Oh, it's a great honor. Just don't write in it. Just place it in your library where you and your family are spending several hours each day. And I'll be just taking lab notes.

[14:40] The Carnivorous Muffin: And if your son or house self or wife start acting strange, just let me know.

[14:46] Vinelle: And then Tom gets vanquished before he gets any results. And now he returns. And Lucius Malfoy was very upset with Arthur Weasley. Please understand, my lord.

[14:55] The Carnivorous Muffin: It was a very upsetting time. He lost his house, Alpha, on the same day.

[14:58] Vinelle: That was a year later. He has no excuse. It was just an upsetting day because, you know, ministry they had sort of been looking through his house for dark artifacts so he was starting to feel a little sweaty. And it would be really funny if he gave it to Alpha Vista instead and then tipped off the ministry to go look at his house. Now. He's stupid.

[15:16] The Carnivorous Muffin: Ultimately, Lucius is stupid. His son goes to school.

[15:19] Vinelle: When diary lets out a basilisk we keep the Malfoys. One of the characters we find very delightful in part because they are.

[15:28] The Carnivorous Muffin: They're so funny. They're such beautiful people. The whole goddamn family. So basically, where we end on the diary is. Yeah, it's the most likely contender. It has some problems, mostly in just like, how it's introduced and treated by Lucius and that gets loose in the first place. But of all the things, it acts the most horcruxy of what makes sense to be a Horcrux that is not just a notebook. Yeah, and it's not just a memory either.

[15:55] Vinelle: And it's something he had to have created at the age of 16 when we know he did kill a girl. At least in computer science, creating something that advanced with. Passes the Turing test really well. And that's a bit. Even a brilliant 16 year old's pay grade. This isn't a school project he came up with in his free time. And I don't see why adult Tom Riddle is making a diary that produces a 16 year old version of him.

[16:19] The Carnivorous Muffin: If you ask it, Lord, I don't think anyone would create such a thing. Would you create such an object?

[16:27] Vinelle: You know what? I would not.

[16:29] The Carnivorous Muffin: Were you about to say you would.

[16:30] Vinelle: No, I was just giving you a half second to wonder.

[16:34] The Carnivorous Muffin: But no, I would not. Would I? No. No, I would not.

[16:38] Vinelle: Diary gets a green flag or at least high probability of being a Horcrux.

[16:43] The Carnivorous Muffin: Hooray for diary.

[16:44] Vinelle: Yeah. On a scale to zero to one, it's close to one. And then we have the locket, which is the second most likely contender. It is highly protected by Tom in a cave filled with inferi. However, he never possesses anybody. Not creatures, creature who starts it. He doesn't possess the three stooges in their tent. And it doesn't even possess Umbridge, who was alone with it for over a year. Presumably wore daily and didn't have anybody constantly watching her. The way, at least as Rio had. By all accounts, she is not possessed. When I can only imagine those very ideal circumstances. What it does is feel kind of warm. Harry sort of places over his heart and he feels like there's a heartbeat. And the gang gets temperamental, you know, get really down when they wear it. That's it? That's it. As far as they notice. At least we have our own thoughts on that.

[17:40] The Carnivorous Muffin: But point being, everything they describe, we know cursed objects exist at Harry Potter and those are also very vague and weird. But it. It could just be cursed.

[17:51] Vinelle: Harry claims that he tried to kill him and he dives in for the sword. But, and this is a scene I have huge problems with as JKr doesn't seem to realize what freezing water will do to you. Yeah, he was submerging himself in freezing water and then suddenly. Oh, the locket is trying to choke me. Harry, that might be that you were, you know, drowning there. Anyway, given everything you described, he is rescued up. Locket does not succeed in choking him. And when Harry opens it so that Ron can stab you to death, it speaks to him. And what it says to Ron is, well, it doesn't. The locket has an eye inside it and. Oh, that's very spooky. And then it summons up Jeanie, Harry and Hermione. They are now very beautiful people who just grow out of the locket like two weeds. And they tell Ron, your mother doesn't love you. Hermione doesn't love you either. And in fact, Hermione and Harry love each other. And now they're gonna kiss each other.

[18:44] The Carnivorous Muffin: Sock puppet mocking of a person. You know, where they put a sock puppet on both arms. Oh, Hemmy, don't you think Ron is.

[18:52] Vinelle: Stupid and ugly and his mother doesn't love him?

[18:55] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yes, Hermie, I think that's true. We should make out. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum.

[19:00] Vinelle: It's one of those really jarring moments that sort of make it difficult to remain immersed in the book because you just have to contemplate how strongly JKR's own biases and opinions make themselves known in their writing. At times it's just really stilted and bizarre dialogue and the entire scene is weird. The locket doesn't come across as trying at all to save itself. It just comes across as an automated response when opened. Make fun of whoever is opening you. Oh, but it doesn't read as a intelligent, oh, I know, Rondon just kills the locket and instead, hooray, hooray. Either the terminal in that locket was tired of being in the locket and he thought, bless me with death, but I can't tell them to please bless me with death because then they might not kill me. Uh, don't kill me, guys, because I don't know, your girlfriend's totally cheating on you. The other theory is that it's just an enchanted object that Tommy'll put in there for a lark because apparently has nothing better to do with his time than create an entire security project and then drop in it. A locket that's not actually a Horcrux, it's just a locket. Sort of memorial grave to marooch, perhaps. Yeah. And that was the thing she sold. That doesn't feel quite. Feel like it's quite it either because. And we'll get into it later, but the fake out Horcrux appears to be something else and something that he would know had been taken right away. If someone takes this locket that may have anatomy of Horcrux, he won't know about it. There's no point to having stored it there with all those measures unless those measures are there to protect them. Am I expressing myself clearly here?

[20:35] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, I think so. Basically, the idea is he put in a lot of effort to protecting this thing but he doesn't know when it's been replaced, so we know it's not signaling him. And what's supposed to happen and what nearly happens to Dumbledore and does happen to Regulus is you get dragged to the zombie lake.

[20:53] Vinelle: Yeah.

[20:54] The Carnivorous Muffin: You don't go anywhere.

[20:55] Vinelle: Yeah. One thing that frustrates me, or not frustrates me, amuses me about that trap is that Dumbledore says, oh, but Tom wouldn't want to have found this place to die. He would want to interrogate them. Dumbledore. He would have no idea you're here. Even if you don't die, you're still going to just starve to death.

[21:12] The Carnivorous Muffin: Well, I just love that immediately after that, he drinks the sad green acidic juice.

[21:18] Vinelle: The sad green.

[21:18] The Carnivorous Muffin: And immediately begins dying.

[21:20] Vinelle: The sad green acidic juice that compels him to jump into the lake to kill himself. And when he does make it out alive, he and Harry make it out alive, only we see when he dies within the hour because of Severus Snape. But prior to that, when he's talking to Draco, he is just slumping against the wall. I'm sorry, Dumbledore, I think you were experiencing organ failure over there.

[21:46] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, I think his organs were melting or something.

[21:49] Vinelle: That entire trap reads not as a. People are meant to come in there and then be stuck until Tom can interrogate them. People are meant to come in there and think they are, you know, making headway. You get across the lake and onto the island, and then you would drink the poison and, oh, shit, you're dead. It's a honeydrop.

[22:09] The Carnivorous Muffin: That gives it credit in the soul thing. And then there's also. It could be acting this way because it has less quote unquote soul than the diary. You know, maybe it does matter whether you have a half or whatever number locket was created in, which is going to be less than that.

[22:27] Vinelle: There's the third theory, which is that the locket is not dead. It is a horcrux. And it had triumphed to itself for months. It was always around somebody's neck, and it didn't do anything besides give them a bad feeling and make them quick to anger doom spiral. But do we know that's the extent of it? Because the diary was able to start. We did a timeline. Ginny gets a diary, August 19, and at least by October 31, it has enough control of her to possess her and make her kill all the roosters and write in blood in the wall. And that gives us a maximum of six weeks to take control. They had the locket for months.

[23:06] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, and the problem is they're all compromised. They have all worn the locket. Not a single one of them didn't. And we know that Ginny was blacking out and didn't remember doing these things.

[23:18] Vinelle: Yeah, if Harry acts funny, then Hermione can just forget it. There's a very beautiful moment at the start when they first gatalocket, where they are all reassuring each other that in order to not get possessed, you must all take turns wearing it. And then they just take turns wearing it. And you just know that there are so many horror movies not even just to the thing, but so many horror movies these guys would not survive.

[23:40] The Carnivorous Muffin: Harry and Hermione, like, they have vague misgivings about the locket and, like, it makes them crabby and, like, temperamental. Ron's the one that's actively wigged out about it and he presumes he's just weaker than the other two and he knows it's been reading his mind and had time to prepare. But are we sure it isn't actually that Ron was stronger because he was aware that something was going terribly wrong and the other two are in deep shit?

[24:06] Vinelle: It's worth mentioning that Ron is the one who manages to leave. Either way, it knew all about Ron's, you know, personal shit. You know, his troubles with his family. Clearly, it knew his mind in and out. It knew he wanted to destroy it. That was his intention. And it either sat there plainly thinking, I'm sure it'll be fine, or came up with something. Given how little is actually known about horcruxes we don't know that they can't transfer. We don't know how dependent they really are on the form they are given when they are initially created.

[24:40] The Carnivorous Muffin: Can they move to a different object? Are we sure Basilic's venom can actually destroy them? And the diary isn't still alive just in Dumbledore's desk somewhere? Or basilisk venom kills it with the sword. Are we sure the sword is imbued with basilisk venom?

[24:56] Vinelle: Do we know that because the sword only went through the roof, it stabbed the basilisk? It went through blood? Venom isn't stored in the blood. At no point did Harry. You know, I'm gonna slide this fang across the blade and transfer some venom. Dumbledore says basilisk venom is a way to destroy horcruxes. Did he get that from the fact that the Horcrux seemed to be destroyed when Harry stabbed the diary? Is that his source? What strikes me is how little information we truly have about horcruxes. That means nobody seems to really know a lot. There is, for instance, riddle. According to the memory, which we have misgivings about he wasn't able to find any real information on multiple horcruxes. It sort of seems that the available data is Horcrux bade you kill person and then soul shredded apart. You place a piece of shredded soul in object, immortal. Where are the details? Are the details conjecture? Or have there been scholars able to investigate horcruxes to get a Horcrux to cooperate please prove to me that you can move from object a to object b. I definitely can't move from object a to object b. I'm stuck here and you should not be worried at all.

[26:05] The Carnivorous Muffin: So point being, the lock. It's actually looking. It's looking. The second likely, I could see it argued it's not a Horcrux. But of the ones we've seen, it's probably the second most likely. And if it is a Horcrux, it.

[26:19] Vinelle: Probably survived the diary. Slim possibility. I'd say, that it's still around. Given Dumbledore would have been able to examine it for years. If there was any signs of life in it, you know, he probably would have found it. But the diary. I mean, the locket the weapon that was used to destroy it. I think any biologist. I say that without having asked. Any biologists. I hope no biologist listening to this will be upset with me for saying as much. At least even venom is not in the blood.

[26:45] The Carnivorous Muffin: Venom is not in the blood.

[26:47] Vinelle: Yeah. That sword is as useful as any other sword which is to say, useless at destroying it. The locket seems to act like it is tricking them. Like it's playing a very different game. It's that or the locket. It just gives.

[27:00] The Carnivorous Muffin: No, just threw itself onto the fire.

[27:03] Vinelle: Yeah.

[27:04] The Carnivorous Muffin: Locket. It's your last words. Oh, heavy.

[27:06] Vinelle: You're so hot.

[27:08] The Carnivorous Muffin: Throw it into the fire, Ron.

[27:10] Vinelle: It decided to throw the tomainy and the Tamari shippers a bone in his last few moments.

[27:15] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's the last few moments. Well, locket, these are the last moments of your life. What are you going to say?

[27:21] Vinelle: Oh, my, you're so beautiful. Oh, Harry, you're so handsome. Ron, you're ugly.

[27:25] The Carnivorous Muffin: So that's the locket. And now we're going to get into the horcruxes that seem less and less and less likely to be horcruxes. There is quite a jump from two to number three.

[27:38] Vinelle: Number four, I would actually say, is even worse. Number five is the worst. There's a jump between each of these. They did get progressively more incredibly enlightened. Likely.

[27:47] The Carnivorous Muffin: So the ring was under the floorboards at Gaunt Shack. And Tom checked it when he was looking for horcruxes to check that people had found horcruxes. It never has a chance to do anything, because Dumbledore finds it and presumably no one else did because it's been sitting there. Tom checks on it. We know it's quite cursed because Dumbledore's hand goes black and we're told he's going to die because of it. But that's the problem, is that it doesn't do anything. And it's just in the floorboards of this, his uncle's shack, who he spoke to once. It does nothing except what we were originally told it did, which is summon specters that bully you into killing yourself. This is included with Harry, where he summons his loved ones who tell him, Harry, this plan where you kill yourself is a great idea. I think you should do it right now.

[28:35] Vinelle: I just hated disrespect to Lily's memory. She died to protect her son. Then we get respected. Oh, Harry, you're 17 now, so that's fine. Toddler dying, I have a problem with that. But, you know, if it's a defeat. Voldemort go fall.

[28:49] The Carnivorous Muffin: You should do it.

[28:50] Vinelle: Don't let me stop you or anything.

[28:51] The Carnivorous Muffin: What this brings up is. Yeah, Dumbledore believes it's a Horcrux. Dumbledore believes he destroyed it. And I bel. I believe we're told he did it with the sword, which again, we have issues with. More to the point, are we sure Tom didn't just bury this gaunt heirloom where the family resided and cursed it.

[29:10] Vinelle: Just to stop people from trying to get cute with it? Very much. I can just see the man putting on this ring, having nicked it from morphine gaunt. And at some point, he shakes his hands thrice and. Oh, my God, I don't even know who would show. Suddenly, you know, there's his mother and I'm saying, hey, Tom, you should kill yourself. Who are you? Why am I killing myself?

[29:30] The Carnivorous Muffin: Who is this woman? Why would I do that? I think you should kill yourself.

[29:34] Vinelle: I'm just gonna leave this ring where I found it. Oh, you say Morphin's gone to jail. After legacy listeners will remember our. The riddle Murderers episode. Given that the murder. We don't believe that Tom had committed the murders necessary to create the ring.

[29:48] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's looking like morphin.

[29:50] Vinelle: It sort of looks like Tom nixed a ring and. Oh, I don't like this ring. Puts it back and lets it be a super cursed. He is not a great big fan of peeps, I should say. And you would have to be kind of an onset to go digging around the floorboards of this place.

[30:06] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's so hard for me to believe this one's a Horcrux. Like, I guess it could be, but I'm not seeing it be off screen, I guess.

[30:16] Vinelle: And also that we see Tom wear it at the start of his school year after having taken it from morphin. But you never see him wear it again.

[30:23] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, the minimal security and then it's there in this house he visited once and didn't like and then it just curses you if you wear it.

[30:31] Vinelle: And a very strong argument, sadly, against this word being actually good at destroying magical objects. Good enough to destroy a Horcrux, thanks to the basilisk venom is that it doesn't destroy the enchantment, the peverils placed upon it. It's very funny to me that a Horcrux one of the most indestructible things in this world should be destroyed and yet these centuries old enchantment should not only still be there but untouched. It does exactly what it has always been described as doing. Dumbledore, I think you just made a crack in a very antique relic.

[31:10] The Carnivorous Muffin: Oh my God.

[31:11] Vinelle: Do not let that man near Bordenenberg or any other, you know, collectors because Dumbledore will just wait.

[31:17] The Carnivorous Muffin: Is there a theory that Dumbledore's secretly been. You know, all the people who go and deface pieces of art every now and then is that just always Dumbledore?

[31:27] Vinelle: You know, I somehow. If the stop oil people who were throwing paint at paintings if they had said stop Voldemort instead I think Dumbledore would have been all about that.

[31:38] The Carnivorous Muffin: He would have been all about that. Oh my God.

[31:40] Vinelle: The Dumbledore's army. And then, you know, horrible au where they go around Hogwarts spraying down the paintings. Paintings protest tremendously but I. They're making a stand.

[31:52] The Carnivorous Muffin: Let's move on to the next one. I actually have it's telling. I have nothing more to say about the ring. Could be off screen. Probably not. I have no reason to believe it is one.

[32:01] Vinelle: So the cap. The cap does nothing. It is in a vault. And that does make sense since it's a valuable item. It is in the lestrocious vault, not Tom's own. And it makes slightly less sense in that Tom himself broke into Gringotts a few years before Daphne Hanno's and he knows it's not what's impregnable. It is possible he gave it to Baltric, said, take good care of this and she then placed it in the best place ever which is Gringotts. But I don't think he would just give it to her and hope she placed it somewhere safe. He would know exactly where she was keeping it. So either he trusts Gringotts that much even though he himself has sufficient disrespect of it. To successfully break in while a wraith on the back of a neurotic man's head. Oh, Grail was faking the neurotic ness, but still, it's the still.

[32:52] The Carnivorous Muffin: He's. He's on the back of this dude's head.

[32:54] Vinelle: Yeah, they were. They were not a perfect team, and yet they got in and out without trouble. The placement of that Horcrux is a bit of a note, so that the Horcrux doesn't really do anything. The same protection charm applies to the cup as it does to everything else. Everything just starts multiplying to create as much of a chaos as possible. But then the cup is traveling with the guys atop a dragon's pack across the country, and it never does anything. It is carried into the chamber of secrets, where it is destroyed. No mention is sad of it having ever attempted to defend itself. So now for the tinfoil time. You are a man with many enemies who would want to destroy your horcruxes if they knew you had them. So, do you hide them all and hope for the best, or do you hide them all and then make a dummy Horcrux, a very valuable object that people would be reasonable to assume is, in fact, a Horcrux, and you hide it someplace public enough that you would know immediately if someone tried to get it?

[33:54] The Carnivorous Muffin: Not only public enough, but it's a place with enough security to convince someone that you are taking this very seriously and putting a lot of effort into protecting it.

[34:05] Vinelle: So, for selection of dummy Horcrux, the cap was selected, was stolen alongside the locket, and even without the knowledge of how Tom acquired them, even if you didn't know he stole both from Hepzibah Smith, there's still the association that they are both founders heirlooms. So if someone found out about the locket, then they would be looking to other Slytherin or founder keepsakes, and the cap is a convincing candidate. The cap was then placed in a high security vault in Gringotts, with the goblins given instruction to let Tom know immediately. And yet, in spite of supposedly being difficult enough to kill, that he can assume Harry might not have gotten to do it just yet. The moment Tom finds out that Harry is on it, he starts checking all the other locations instead of trying to intercept Harry before he might off it. He doesn't suddenly take the Weasley's hostage and say, harry, I'm killing one every half hour until you come to me with the Horcrux. He's not lighting diagonally on fire one store at a time. The people trapped inside. There is no attempt to save the cup, only to check on the others. There's not even an attempt to find out what became of it. When he has Harry in the forest, you know, he doesn't ask. I actually just realized he doesn't even try to get Harry to surrender with the cup which, for all he knew, might still be in Harry's possession.

[35:24] The Carnivorous Muffin: The only reason it got rid of was Ron and Hermione went to the basement and started stabbing it with a.

[35:28] Vinelle: Fang less than an hour away. It's not like Tom has anything to, you know, win from trying to keep it a secret or being secretive about it. Harry already knows. And from all Tom knows, which would also be reasonable, Harry has told others, the secret's out. No attempt. So we think that the cup was the canary in the coal mine, which is an old technique that is just. It's used everywhere. It's a very common idiom. Even Tom would be familiar with it. He's from the Muggle world.

[35:59] The Carnivorous Muffin: So what it is for listeners who are not familiar is they would put a canary into a coal mine with the coal workers. And what they do is they watch to see if the canary dies. Because. Since. Because it has less body mass, if there's a poisonous gas in the mine, the canary is the first to die before the people. So if that canary keels over, it means you got to get out now. So it's generally used as something of, like a warning signal of if something happens to this thing, bad things are happening. Whatever is compromised.

[36:31] Vinelle: Yeah. And hufflepuff's, by all accounts, appears to have been a canary both from the choice of object to the placement to Tom's reaction when it is taken.

[36:41] The Carnivorous Muffin: Which means it is not a horcrux. Woo woo.

[36:46] Vinelle: Moving on to one that is even less of a horcrux.

[36:49] The Carnivorous Muffin: I know, which is impressive, given the.

[36:51] Vinelle: Ring, to indicate this one's a horcrux.

[36:54] The Carnivorous Muffin: Dumbledore theorizes, given how much Tom liked Hogwarts and given that he specifically comes back to interview even when to Dumbledore, it's pretty clear he's not gonna get the job. Dumbledore theorizes what he did during that time, the reason he accepted the interview at all.

[37:10] Vinelle: That's tiring.

[37:10] The Carnivorous Muffin: To place a horcrux.

[37:11] Vinelle: Harry theorizes that.

[37:12] The Carnivorous Muffin: Harry theorizes it is to place a horcrux within Hogwarts to get access to the school, to put one in there. So, ergo, there is a horcrux.

[37:21] Vinelle: At Hogwarts from Tom having fought in his internal monologue and Hogwarts Horcrux must not forget the Hogwarts Horcrux must not.

[37:29] The Carnivorous Muffin: Forget Hogwarts Horcrux better get to Hogwarts Harry. I think we should go to Hogwarts right now guys. 1 hour later they're in Hogwarts back from that Harry runs around the castle as we find out people like uh yeah, Colin are dead I guess. And they run into the grey lady who they had learned about earlier from Luna and she has said you should go talk to her and she tells us this wild story about when Tom was there in school and she had told him all about the diadem and she regrets this, it was weird and we'll get into it. The diadem is then burned in the room of requirements thanks to crab. Rest in peace crab. You died too young, too soon. So with that we have three, but really four questions we need to ask. Was the diadem Harry found a Horcrux? Was the Horcrux a diadem? Why did you put that question?

[38:20] Vinelle: I put it no, because was the diadem that Harry found the right one? And the second is was the Horcrux do you in fact know assuming was the Horcrux die in him at all?

[38:31] The Carnivorous Muffin: Was it in the room of requirement? And then the bonus question can we trust the grey lady? Who is this woman? So to start with the last question a beautiful story unfolds. Harry has already established a Slytherin's locket and he believes Hufflepuff's cup are Horcruxes. Now he's looking at Ravenclaw because he knows the Gryffindor sword. Tom couldn't get his grubby hands up. He can't get his grubby hands on the sword. Sword is the sword. It can't be a Horcrux. Anyway, so we're back to Ravenclaw. Could there be a Ravenclaw relic? Luna tells him yes there is. There's the diadem. It was lost ages ago. She points him towards the house ghost which is the only likely source they're going to have. So terry does and she tells him a very tragic story where the grey lady is actually Roanna Ravenclaw's daughter who took the diadem for herself and ran away. Only her suitor followed and killed them both when he couldn't have her. And it was very sad. And that suitor by the way is the bloody baron today and he always has his blood soaked clothes and carries the rattling chains as a reminder of transgressions. And coincidentally he will never talk about this to anyone because it's so deeply personal and you can't ask him to verify the story. And the diadon, she hid it in a forest a long way away in a country she calls Albania. She doesn't call it the alderman empire or the principality of Arburan. Arbanon I can't read as it would have been at the time depending how old you believe Hogwarts actually is or if the founders are actually real people to begin with. But why would she have kept so up to date with country names? Especially during this relatively tumultuous time in that area of Europe? Where is she so up to date? She knows to call it Albania and doesn't mistake it for being in the Soviet Union or the fact that the Soviet Union has now collapsed by this point. It's incredible of her that she's, she keeps up with it so much. In general it's a story with a lot of weird coincidences.

[40:30] Vinelle: Yeah. Tom Riddle somehow, based on the description which is a forest in Albania, he finds it. He's given no landmark and the landmarks that he assuming she didn't give him landmarks it's been a thousand years supposedly or centuries at least. They should have changed drastically and 85 cent but lets assume that Helena Ravenclaw was telling the truth and she was really Helena Reynolds Riviko, a very real historical person who stole the diadem and Tom Riddle now finds it theres no indication he made in the Horcrux further, we know that within Hogwarts there is a place that only Tom Riddle can reach one that is of great personal meaning to him. Nobody else has ever found it in spite of centuries of searching ardently gonna hide it in the chamber of Secrets he's gonna hide it in the room of requirements because the logic here, according to Harry, was that Tomid loved Hogwarts and Tom found the rumour requirements a room that requires pacing three times on the 6th floor while contemplating a requirement as one that Harry himself wasn't able to find until Dobby told him about it. I'm not sure Tom had never found it. And also that Tommy is then arrogant enough to assume I'm the only person that's ever found this room. I don't know what all these other things in here are, but I'm the only one who's ever found this room. And that he felt so arrogant and secure in being the only person to have ever found it that he thought, this is a good place to have the Horcrux. And in fact, I'm going to hide it here as an adult.

[41:55] The Carnivorous Muffin: One of the beautiful, my favorite parts of Deathly Hallows is Ron. At some point during the beginning part of the tent voyage tells Harry that he thinks Harry is projecting onto Tom Riddle here. And Harry just loses his shit. Get out. Ron.

[42:12] Vinelle: How dare you? How dare you not say correct?

[42:14] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's never once projected on Tom Riddle in his life and it's one of the most real statements of the book because all Harry does is project onto this man. This reasoning here is why Harry would have put his Horcrux in the room of requirement if he had one.

[42:31] Vinelle: And as it so happens, he remembers seeing Adidum from book six when he was hiding the Hubble Prince textbook. Ergo, he knows exactly where this diadem is. So he goes looking, and lo and behold, he finds a diadem. And it must be ruinas because it has an inscription. The inscription rhymes. Even wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure. Oh, that's great. It rhymes according to modern english phonetics. Wow.

[42:56] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's written in English.

[42:57] Vinelle: Written in English with exactly the same pronunciation as you would have today. That's a real premonition from Rowena, I guess, that she. Did she make this?

[43:08] The Carnivorous Muffin: Did she make this?

[43:09] Vinelle: Is this.

[43:10] The Carnivorous Muffin: Who asked Helena. Did Helena the ghost just make up that her mom was Rowena Ravenclaw and that she hated her and that she had this tragic love affair that Baron won't ever speak of?

[43:21] Vinelle: Sorry, I don't believe the grey lead for a moment. And I think this item, given that's in English and it's just sort of discarded there. I think it's a Ravenclaw student project. Somebody made it item. And knowing that they had historically been one once. It sounds like something fun somebody made every weekend. And then, not having much to do with it, they left it in the room of requirements and Harry then finds it and says, oh, this is the Horcrux. I knew it. And destroys it and.

[43:46] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, and then the room burns down.

[43:48] Vinelle: I'm sorry.

[43:48] The Carnivorous Muffin: Tale of the diadem, which appeared to be a fake on all accounts.

[43:53] Vinelle: On all accounts. One last thing about the chamber. There is a statue where the basilisk was living like it was living inside a statue. Why not place a Horcrux in there with the basilisk? Nobody is getting in there. It's got.

[44:06] The Carnivorous Muffin: I don't know. I kind of like that Harry just found this prom queen crown in the room of requirement and feels very triumphant when it's destroyed. I'm just picturing the fake rhinestones. You know, the plastic sparkly bits.

[44:23] Vinelle: I mean, things happen very quickly. Harry didn't have time to notice the price tag still hanging off it.

[44:28] The Carnivorous Muffin: The price tax delay or. God. He goes to Fred and George's store. They're now selling fake founders heartifacts.

[44:39] Vinelle: When did you start selling these?

[44:40] The Carnivorous Muffin: When did you start selling?

[44:42] Vinelle: A year before you destroyed the item. When we opened.

[44:46] The Carnivorous Muffin: When beyond measure is a man's greatest treasure, that is.

[44:49] Vinelle: Hey.

[44:50] The Carnivorous Muffin: Rhymes.

[44:51] Vinelle: That does sound exactly like how people are speaking today. Yeah, Donny, right?

[44:57] The Carnivorous Muffin: And Ron and sounding like Beowulf.

[45:00] Vinelle: Ron and Hermione were in the chamber. That's what gets me. They just returned from the chamber.

[45:04] The Carnivorous Muffin: Hey, guys.

[45:05] Vinelle: They destroyed the Horcrux. Look at us. And they destroyed the canary. And then if there is a Horcrux at Hogwarts which I have my doubts about giving Tom pretty much just shove. Gave Harry a very strong incentive to go there. Go into the chamber, then left again. I wonder where that Horcrux could be hiding. They ask themselves on their way out.

[45:25] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, I don't think there is one at Hogwarts. I don't think there was. Because they better not find Hogwarts Horcrux. Guys we gotta go to Hogwarts right now.

[45:33] Vinelle: So then we have the snake. And the evidence here presented is that Tom Nagini is smart. And Tom seems to really, you know, care for his pet insofar he's capable of caring for anybody. Harry has weird visions of attacking Alpha Weasley. This was during a time when Tom was actively using the mind blink against him and giving him false visions that he would find distressing. Such as letting him know that Nagini, the snake that Tom is generally pretty protective of was lurking around the ministry on her own. I would never send one of my cats to do a heist for me. I simply wouldn't.

[46:08] The Carnivorous Muffin: Well, your cats are too stupid. No offense, Nagini. She's not even doing laps around them. She's, like, orbiting them from space.

[46:15] Vinelle: I have faith in trim. We had to scrap the first attempt to record this episode because he broke into the room and made a lot of noise.

[46:22] The Carnivorous Muffin: You mean the first three attempts to record this episode.

[46:24] Vinelle: Yeah. He demands to be present while we record. The separation anxiety is strong with this one.

[46:31] The Carnivorous Muffin: We also have weird things where Harry isn't sure whether he's a snake Voldemort himself or a butterfly who dreamed he was a man. During the Godric's hollow scene where he and Hermione go to Godric's Hollow, Nagini does the most impressive snake impersonation of a human being imaginable in the middle of winter and gets them into this house. And then Voldemort shows up.

[46:53] Vinelle: I read somebody talking about how snakes aren't really able to do much in the cold. This was for the purposes of a tumblr pole. But I was just, I read it and I just thought about Nagini. And you know what? Nagini, she was a trooper.

[47:06] The Carnivorous Muffin: She was such a trooper.

[47:08] Vinelle: But yes, supposedly the fact that she is such a trooper makes her a candidate for being a Horcrux. And we see that Tom is very protective of her during the battle of Hogwarts. At least he keeps her in a little bubble, and then he doesn't keep her in a little bubble anymore.

[47:22] The Carnivorous Muffin: I kind of forgot about that, I guess. I don't know what was up with that.

[47:25] Vinelle: Maybe she, honestly, I kind of want to bet she was cold or just wanted to sleep or something. And then later on I'm fine. Let me out.

[47:32] The Carnivorous Muffin: Let me out.

[47:33] Vinelle: And then a wild Neville appears with a sword that kills Tom's snake. Just fingers. Tom was right there. He didn't attack him. Attack the snake.

[47:46] The Carnivorous Muffin: Why? Two thousand's Internet humorous. And that's one of them of like, you know, I can picture the video now of like, they're drawn as like stick figures or something in Adobe Flash. And Tom and snakes. All right, master, I want out of bubble now. Oh, are you sure? Yeah, I want to do things. Okay. They stand there for 2 seconds, roar. You just see for 2 seconds, come by with storm. The head snake leaves, and tom's just standing there.

[48:15] Vinelle: I guess I don't have a snake anymore.

[48:17] The Carnivorous Muffin: No snake anymore.

[48:19] Vinelle: According to Fantastic Beasts canon, he must now search for other cursed women and be like, hey, you want to be my rebound snake?

[48:28] The Carnivorous Muffin: My rebound snake?

[48:30] Vinelle: Nothing sexual. I just. I'm his snake.

[48:32] The Carnivorous Muffin: So the problem with this is that there's no reason to believe Nagini is not just a beloved pet who's some magical snake breed where she's super smart.

[48:42] Vinelle: Who, according to fantastic beasts, is super smart because she is in fact, a human trap to snake.

[48:48] The Carnivorous Muffin: I know, I just love that she did that. Yeah.

[48:53] Vinelle: And then wrote Nagini right out again like you now, jk, you can't just give me things and then take them away like that. I want to know what happened in this.

[49:04] The Carnivorous Muffin: I don't know. I guess she went to live in a tree in Albania or something.

[49:08] Vinelle: Yeah.

[49:08] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's like a python who's very, very non native to the environment.

[49:14] Vinelle: Dumbledore did have reasons to tell Harry she is one because he needed Hari to know how crooks's can do living things. Take the hint, Harry, in case Severus falls through. Take the hint. And also because if Harry didn't take.

[49:27] The Carnivorous Muffin: That hint, he needed Severus to tell.

[49:29] Vinelle: Him he did not take that hint. But if she isn't, then that's another then in her place we have an unknown hwa crocodile. And Dumbledore, I think, would want to believe that he knows as much as he possibly can that he is in control of the situation and he has fooled Tom. He hasn't figured out it's a bit of a pattern with him, such as in the cave when he thinks, ah, this poison's not lethal, I'm in control of the situation. He always underestimates Tom in a very specific way. He's never unsure of himself, he never thinks, maybe there is something, I don't know here. It only goes to follow that if he fits, she might be a Horcrux. She has to be one. The alternative would be Tom having, you know, done something that the Mulder isn't thinking he would do. Also that tomodor is dying at the time when he makes this theory, he is running out of time. He doesn't have time to come up with a new Horcrux to fill the blank. So to say he has these slots of what could the Horcrux be? And if he doesn't know about Nagini, then he doesn't have one. And that, I think, would be too alarming. He wouldn't want that. It's better to assume he has an answer. And it even explains to him why Tom seems to care for her. Because Tom Riddle is not so human as to care about his pet. It's got to be sinister. And last damning argument is that Tom, in this supposedly existential battle for his last few horcruxes, he brings her to battle. Why would he not keep her in an undisclosed location under heavy protection? Or if he thought that wasn't safe enough, that maybe if you suspected Harry knew what he was thinking, the link was bleeding through without his consent. If we are taking things at face value, Tom knowing where she is would not be enough safety. Why not send her off with, like, Bellatrix lestrange or someone similarly loyal and say, you will go on a vacation for a month. Don't tell me where. Bring the snake with you. Be very protective of the snake. The safety measures that he would have taken for Nagini if she was the last thing anchoring him to this life are not bringing her to battle and then letting her slither unprotected around his shoulders. He is treating her like a petty that accompanies him, not like a Horcrux. And she also just generally goes around very unprotected. She bites off her Weasley, supposedly in the department of mysteries. Actually, that one seems pretty. Tom let Harry know about it, but it's not gonna stand there and argue that Offy Whistler was not attacked by Nagini. But she also most definitely and most canonically was hanging out on her own in Godric's hollow for God knows how long. He gives her missions. He doesn't treat her at all like he does any of the other Horcruxes. I mean, he could just replace his deaf ears and just have them all possessed by. Here's Bellatrix. She is possessed by my baseball card. I don't. I couldn't think of my, I don't know, first edition copy of seven pillars of Wisdom. And that is why she is so effective. He doesn't do that. He keeps the Horcruxes pile cans safe. Locket is not in doing missions. It is in a cave. Yeah, no, I don't think Nagini is a Horcruxidere, but she is very inarguably dead.

[52:27] The Carnivorous Muffin: We think devil Dormouse took Tom being thrilled he has someone competent in his employ who happens to be a snake with him having a Horcrux because Nagiri's the only one who does shit around here.

[52:40] Vinelle: She's so competent.

[52:41] The Carnivorous Muffin: She's so competent.

[52:42] Vinelle: It's only the unappreciated women in the Harry Potter who are competent. The ones who do get the appreciation, you know, from canon, like Hermione McGondang. Well, I'm sorry, but they're failing some tests here.

[52:53] The Carnivorous Muffin: And we have the last one, Harry Potter, the big one, Harry James Potter. So evidence presented for him. This has never explained how exactly this happened. Supposedly Tom had prepped for a Horcrux at that point, but we know something went really, really wrong and a magical connection was created between the two of them on October 31, 1981. And Dumbledore is the one who assumes that Tom's soul shatters and a piece latches onto Harry. Tom himself does not know or think Harry's a Horcrux. And that this had happened. He doesn't seem to know what the hell is going on with the connection.

[53:31] Vinelle: One note or two notes is that much of Dumbledore's explanation on how Harry came to be a Horcrux is from Harry's hallucination in Kings Cross in which Dumbledore tells him, oh, Harry, I loved you so much. You meant so much to me. You were absolutely not a tool. I really cared to and I have never done anything bad, ever. In fact, there is a very good explanation behind all of it. You can now have me as your uncomplicated idol again. Oh, professor, I'm so glad. Oh. So is this a hallucination?

[53:57] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yes, the train station scene. Dumbledore kind of does a 180 there and it's very weird circumstances. And I'm hard pressed to believe that Dumbledore appears right when Harry emotionally needs him to. To explain to every action he has ever took and reassure Harry that he is loved and that this is his beloved grandfather father figure.

[54:19] Vinelle: The books are written in a world where magic is real and I do believe Dumbledore would say the things he does at that train station. It's just even if he does, that wouldn't make him right. His argument that Tom had prepared to make a Horcrux is out of thin air. And also the only possible evidence he would have of it is that terminal wanted six horcruxes when the man has, by that point, already killed more than enough people. Why would he wait until 1981 and Harry Potter with a prophecy he wouldn't even know about before it was made a year previous to make the last warcrafts? Even when I was eleven, or however old I was, I just thought, okay, very strange it was one of those. But how could he know that?

[55:04] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah, Donald. Or, like, saying words. All right, the other thing is that Harry speaks parseltongue despite having no direct relation to Tom Riddle or Tom Riddle's parents. And then, you know, Harry has not presumably had parseltongue. In his lie, his mother and father do not speak it. Two known living speakers and the only other known one being Voldemort.

[55:24] Vinelle: There are two things there. One being that this is the only talent that Harry got from Tom. He inherited nothing else. In fact, he's incompetent at one of Tom's big talents, which is legilimency. He's incompetent at documency. I'm sure people will be upset if I say incompetent, but he very much struggles to learn. It is what I'll say it's true.

[55:45] The Carnivorous Muffin: I mean, I can't give him too much flack because, you know, imagine being taught anything by snake who's just. You're a loser, Harry.

[55:51] Vinelle: Those were horrible lessons. But it's still. He doesn't have the natural affinity for it that Tom Riddle did. He doesn't have anything close to affinity. And there's no other powers that he gets from Tom. It's just a parseltongue that if we take curse a child into account. Yeah, we love curse of the cursed child. I'm sorry, we love it. So he's still a parseltongue 20 years later, which means either he never got rid of the Horcrux or he had it genetically from his parents. And I will go ahead and say that it's from what we know of how the gons operate, I think the gene is dominant only because Tom Yiddell Sr. Extremely unlikely to have been a carrier. But Tom is a speaker nonetheless, so has to have had it from Mehrub, which would indicate it's a dominant trait. And gon's them being as inbred as they are makes a lot of sense also if they have experience with marrying somebody else who doesn't have the talent and, oh, no, half the children aren't puzzled tongues. We shall not marry out of the family because if it was a recessive trait, then it would pop back up again. Yeah. And it would not be gaunt, exclusive. You would have. Oh, my great great grandmother was a gaunt. So maybe I have my child will be parseltongue. And your child might actually be parseltongue if you marry the right person who is also descended from, you know, someone with parseltongue. By all accounts, it's dominant. I. So James would either be keeping a massive secret, which would not be very feasible to keep secret because it would be a known thing in his bloodline, because all his ancestors in a straight line would have it. And that kind of leaves us with Lily, who apparently must have got somewhere. At least it's if Harry's not a Horcrux or if Harry isn't inheriting any other talents from Tom. But he has this one talent, and it's a talent that doesn't go away after the potential Horcrux is destroyed. He has it on in his own marriage. And that's Lily is really the most probable source. Makes sense to me that how often do you try to talk to a snake? How would she know that? She can. And assuming that she did find out a she might not have realized the importance. She would have no way of doing so. B if she does, she's keeping that shit to herself. Oh my God. Is this like dark, evil talent that you know who supposedly has? Oh, she would lose a lot of friends to if she started talking to snakes. Oh, keeping that to herself. She just might not have known because how often do you walk up to snake and say, hi, fella.

[58:06] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah. And I think the thing people canonically forget is that Harry didn't know till he was eleven and he happened to go to a zoo and he didn't really know until he was twelve. And that was just because Draco threw a snake at him.

[58:20] Vinelle: And even then he didn't really know either. It had to be said to him, Harry, you were talking to that snake. I wasn't talking English. Like, in a world we were able to do all sorts of accidental magic. Why would it seem like you have a special talent just because snakes speak back to you?

[58:34] The Carnivorous Muffin: Harry also has his weird psychic visions of what Tom Riddle is up to and what he has weird psychic visions of what Tom Riddle is up to. When Tom is upset or really focused on a thing. He also has these headaches of doom through his scar that hurts when Tom is either around or really, really pissed. And when he died, he went to purgatory and there was this ugly creature sobbing under a bench and it was weird and harry left it there. But again, this one is arguably one great hallucination. And we're never really confirmed what the thing under the bench is. It's implied it's a Horcrux, and Dumbledore says it is. Are we sure it's not some weird demon thing that, I don't know, drags you to hell or something?

[59:18] Vinelle: Just a hallucination. Harry expects to see some sign that the Horcrux has been killed, and so he sees one.

[59:23] The Carnivorous Muffin: It's not even dead, it's just under a bench.

[59:26] Vinelle: It was also very coincidental that it should look like Tarmardel did in his transitional form before he had the homunculus, essentially form of a baby, because that is what Harry would associate with weak Tom Riddle temporary physical form that he had so he wouldn't be a wraith.

[59:41] The Carnivorous Muffin: Harry's also nearly sent to Slytherin, despite having zero cunning. That said, Harry does have ambition. He has a lot of ambition. And to be frank, he does have cunning. It's just stupid. He comes up with plans and he comes up with ways to get what he wants. They're just dumb.

[59:59] Vinelle: And they also have that their ones are the same core, ergo, connection. That is what we call a coincidence.

[01:00:05] The Carnivorous Muffin: Yeah. Point being, the only real evidence I'd say we have even, you know, beyond the Parselton tongue is the mental link. That one is the key. Harry possibly is a Horcrux, but it also could just be something weird happened when the curse rebounded and this is something else.

[01:00:24] Vinelle: A psychic connection is not the same as his soul is in mine. If anything, that should mean a bit of Harry's soul is in Tom. I just feel it gets. It's not enough of an argument on its own, and it must stand on its own, I'm afraid. With that, we are bringing on the teaser, which is given all of we have all that we have examined in this episode, are you really sure that Tom Riddle is dead? Did harry get all the horcruxes? Is the first question. Maybe they really were only the locket and the diary. And maybe the locket really did get destroyed and so did the diary. Maybe it's all fine. Are we sure that there weren't some that harry might not have caught? That the locket is really destroyed? If we now assume that Harry had in fact bungled it, then we know that the last time things went alright for him and he lost his body, he was caught completely by surprise. He lost everything in one moment. He just had to flee to Albania. You never would have gotten out if Peter Pettigrew hadn't shown up. He was living onward. It is quite fair, I should say, to assume that he would wise up after that, to not only know, okay, this is what happens to me when my body is destroyed. This is something that can happen. That he would want to have backup bodies that he could easily possess, or backup solutions, but also that he would honestly kind of have an entire contingency plan. And as it is, harry is now nice enough to give him several hours to prepare for what might happen here. And if we tune our tinfoil hats up to eleven, then we can kind of boldly assume that Tom was doing sort of an elaborate, very pointed I am gloriously killed. Now I am dead. My horcruxes are gone. Type suicide that final night. If he still has horcruxes, and it feels reasonable to assume he does, all that's changed is that people think he's dead and he had gotten rid of the homunculus body, and that sort of gives him a lot of leeway to do whatever he wants. Now he no longer is mired in this ridiculous fight with a boy who is not really, really difficult to kill or root out or anything. And he's proven his point. Not really a lot of excitement going on from here. We already see that he spends all his time, allegedly, at least in Germany. Is he really losing all that much if he pops up to do something else?

[01:02:39] The Carnivorous Muffin: So, in summary, with that teaser diary. Yes. Horcrux Lockett, probably, baby. Horcrux. Probably, maybe not dead. Everything else, not Horcrux.

[01:02:49] Vinelle: It's very difficult to argue that certain things on this list are Horcruxes.

[01:02:54] The Carnivorous Muffin: It is what it is. With that, I think we're wrapping up here, let's acknowledge our patreons by blowing one of them up.

[01:03:01] Vinelle: Oh, yes. Our patron, by the way, is found at rink. Heresy. So, pretty easy to find. And mostly, well, what is paid for here is just the hosting fees for having these recording software. And I vote that Francesca gets to be blown up this time.

[01:03:18] The Carnivorous Muffin: Hooray.

[01:03:20] Vinelle: I'm so sorry. Yeah.

[01:03:21] The Carnivorous Muffin: All right with that, I think it's a wrap.

[01:03:23] Vinelle: In case we don't see you again. Good afternoon, good evening, and good night.