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The Joint Venture is the weekly sports, music, and entertainment podcast hosted by Grammy Award-winning rap icon Lil Wayne and Sports Talk Radio Hall of Famer Craig Carton.
What started as a genuine friendship has become one of the most entertaining conversations in sports and pop culture. Every week, Lil Wayne and Craig Carton bring their unique perspectives together for unfiltered discussions that blend sports, hip-hop, music, entertainment, and the stories making headlines. With their natural chemistry, quick wit, and honest opinions, no topic is off limits.
Whether they’re breaking down the biggest moments in the NFL, NBA, college sports, boxing, or the music industry, reacting to viral moments, debating hot takes, or sharing behind-the-scenes stories from their careers, Wayne and Craig deliver the kind of conversation that feels like you’re hanging out with two friends who have seen it all—and aren’t afraid to say what they really think.
Each episode features celebrity guests, professional athletes, musicians, coaches, entertainers, and industry insiders who bring fresh perspectives and unforgettable stories. From championship moments and locker-room conversations to life on tour, career-defining decisions, entrepreneurship, fatherhood, creativity, and the business behind sports and entertainment, every guest adds something new to the conversation.
Fans can expect honest sports commentary, candid interviews, funny stories, unexpected debates, and the kind of authentic conversations that happen when two people from completely different worlds genuinely enjoy each other’s company. Whether they’re discussing the latest games, the biggest names in music, trending topics, current events, or moments that simply make them laugh, The Joint Venture never takes itself too seriously.
If you love sports podcasts, hip-hop podcasts, celebrity interviews, music conversations, pop culture, comedy, or simply listening to great personalities having real conversations, The Joint Venture belongs in your weekly rotation.
New episodes drop every week with fresh guests, new stories, bold opinions, and plenty of surprises. Follow The Joint Venture on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts, and never miss an episode.
[01:00:00] Craig Carton Welcome to another edition of the Joint Ventures Show, little Wayne Craig Carton. Tell me what you want, what you really, really want.
[01:00:04] Little Wayne Tell me what you want, what you really really want Tell you what you don't want, would I really really I WANNA
[01:00:08] Craig Carton I wanna, I wanna I wanna
[01:00:09] Little Wayne I wanna, yeah, I remember that.
[01:00:11] Craig Carton If you pick A, you're a psychopath. Mr. Derek Fisher comes by. I truly believe he is one of the 10 best Lakers of all time.
[01:00:23] Derek FIsher Call him.
[01:00:24] Craig Carton Says everybody.
[01:00:25] Derek FIsher LeBron, call him.
[01:00:26] Craig Carton I think LeBrons 11th, we can debate that. Like really? What's up Biggs, how you been?
[01:00:32] Little Wayne I'm chilling, man.
[01:00:33] Craig Carton Yeah, yours, chill.
[01:00:34] Little Wayne Yeah, I can't complain.
[01:00:35] Craig Carton I noticed in the last couple of weeks, your son's been out there doing this thing with Kanye's daughter. It's the most recent thing. How did that thing come about?
[01:00:43] Little Wayne Man, you'd have to ask him, man. For real, for real. Actually, for really. For really, he just hit me up one day and was like, hey, Dad, I got to go come to L.A. To shoot a video, and I was like cool, whenever. I was, like, but he shoots videos, like every day. So I was just like, so what's the significance of coming, you just want to get some L. A. Content? Right. And he was like nah, I have to do a single with, with uh, with, with who? And when he told me, I was man, when did you get that done? And then that's when people start talking to me about it. They're like, man, I heard the song with, I saw that. I was like, okay, no.
[01:01:12] Craig Carton So it was all behind your back.
[01:01:14] Little Wayne Nah, he did it on his own. Yeah, he ran his own thing. He did his own business.
[01:01:18] Craig Carton I know he's also done some stuff with you on stage when you were touring last year. I always wonder, what's it like for you, seeing your son, you're following your footsteps, when you kind of take a back step and he's doing his thing, what is that like for you?
[01:01:31] Little Wayne Man, I can explain it right now. What it exactly is for me is like seeing me. It is no more than every time I back up, because he's my exit when I'm going to take a break and change clothes and stuff. So when he come on and I'm back and I see his silhouette and it just looks like I just put on my younger me. You go, and I want to change clothes real quick.
[01:01:55] Craig Carton By the way, you might be able to use that in the future.
[01:01:57] Little Wayne And uh... Who's going to get it
[01:01:59] Craig Carton Where's little Wayna? He's right there on stage.
[01:02:02] Little Wayne Man he got young and his skills are pretty good too man right yeah man yeah i love everything that's the dna i assume that's why i don't meddle with it
[01:02:10] Craig Carton You just let him do his thing. Does he run stuff by you like he pops? What do you think about this?
[01:02:14] Little Wayne He definitely don't ask for no approval on how what do I think about anything?
[01:02:19] Craig Carton You think you might ask for a dud, you can help me out.
[01:02:21] Little Wayne Yeah, not at all. Not at all, he's way too confident for that.
[01:02:26] Craig Carton Is it surreal for you, watching it? Because the crowd's into it.
[01:02:29] Little Wayne They want him to do well. That part right there is very surreal. There's been times where like I told you that's my moment where I exit. There have been times where I'm walking off and then I hear the roar and it doesn't stop me in my tracks. You're like, who's performing? No, I know who. It's just like, wow, he did that? Yeah. So other than that, it's never expected. Right. But it's also not shocking.
[01:02:51] Craig Carton It's funny, I always said I didn't want my kids, and I have one son who wanted to be a broadcaster, do radio, and I was like, ah, rather you go into finance, make some real money. Did you want him to follow in your footsteps, or was that a thing you wanted him not to do?
[01:03:04] Little Wayne I didn't have a decision on if I want him to do it or not do it, but it was also because he started it himself. So once he, because he's started himself, instead of being exactly super for it, as soon as he started, I gave him, I was like, nah, let me see you do this then. Without your help? Yeah, exactly. And then once.
[01:03:19] Craig Carton And then once he proved that he was committed to...
[01:03:20] Little Wayne Committed to it whatever all those things I had asked him and told him to do he jumped over those so so fast I was like I come you coming on tour. It's cool though. Yeah
[01:03:27] Craig Carton So it's cool though, second generation of a car to doing it.
[01:03:30] Little Wayne He might do the Carter 15. He might. I hope so. I hope.
[01:03:34] Craig Carton So a lot of people don't know this, when Wayne and I talk all the time, I'm the annoying friend that's like, yo, you should sample this song. You should rap on that song. You'll agree to that. I do that to you, right? Yeah, he does that a lot. So I thought we'd have some fun today with a blind reveal. Yeah. Let me just walk you through how this is going to work. There's going to be five samples or five songs I'm going to give you. I'm gonna give you one at a time. You have to decide one to five, one being the best, the one you want to sample, where you put them. But you don't know any of it. So if I give you a song, you have to say I'd make that number five, number three, whatever it is. You ready to go? Blind reveal, songs for you to sample. You just have to make me one promise. Whatever song you pick is number one.
[01:04:18] Little Wayne Yeah, you know that
[01:04:18] Craig Carton Is that a fair deal?
[01:04:19] Little Wayne I love music man
[01:04:20] Craig Carton Here we go. Song number one. It's Raining Men by the Weather Girls.
[01:04:29] Little Wayne Bye.
[01:04:31] Craig Carton You're sure that's going to be number five?
[01:04:33] Little Wayne You say we're going one to five and you say five is the least.
[01:04:38] Craig Carton You're not going to wrap.
[01:04:39] Little Wayne Oh, f***.
[01:04:39] Craig Carton It's raining men all right song number two the name of the song is wannabe you and I both know it as
[01:04:47] Little Wayne Tell me what you want what you really really want tell you what you're on what I really really
[01:04:51] Craig Carton I wanna, I wanna...
[01:04:52] Little Wayne I wanna, yeah, I remember that. Okay, go ahead. I'll go, just because now I'm seeing what kind of music we talking, where you going with this? We talking Craig music. This one don't have a genre, this is Craig music-
[01:05:01] Craig Carton It's on my Spotify playlist.
[01:05:02] Little Wayne Yeah, so I go, just to be safe, I'm gonna go three.
[01:05:06] Craig Carton Three, all right, so the Spice Girls are number three. All right, the next song for you is classic, Michael Jackson's Man in the Mirror.
[01:05:14] Little Wayne Hmm And the mirror yeah, I'm talking to
[01:05:19] Craig Carton Make a change!
[01:05:20] Little Wayne Yeah, okay, I'll go too.
[01:05:22] Craig Carton Number two, man in the mirror. By the way, you ever meet Michael Jackson?
[01:05:26] Little Wayne I never met Michael. Really? No. But I have a damn good song called Mirror.
[01:05:30] Craig Carton You do? Yeah. It's always about your stuff. I got that. All right. Song number four. Now you have spot one left and spot four left. Yeah. There's going to be an interesting one. Okay. All right. Frank Sinatra's My Way. Is that going to be number four and you're going to leave one open, meaning the last song has to go number one or you're just going to put all blue eyes number one.
[01:05:55] Little Wayne I have to put on blue eyes number one.
[01:05:56] Craig Carton You're not a risk taker?
[01:05:57] Little Wayne I'm not, no, it's just that I'm a musician and it's a thing. Respect is respect, and that's Old Blue Eyes.
[01:06:05] Craig Carton My way. All right, so Frank Sinatra's number one, so that means.
[01:06:09] Little Wayne You're going to do a sample of Frank Sinatra. That was a safe, exactly, super safe.
[01:06:14] Craig Carton Well, the last one is the one I've been begging you to do, George Michael's Careless Whisper!
[01:06:20] Little Wayne But that don't count because I already gave it to you. I'm doing that regardless.
[01:06:23] Craig Carton I've got a backup. I've gotta back up one and it's number four no matter what. It was Barbara Streisand's Yentl.
[01:06:31] Little Wayne I don't know what that is, so yes, that would have worked.
[01:06:34] Craig Carton It was some type of Hebrew song. That's what it was about. All right. So at some point this year, you will put out or try to put out a rap to Frank Sinatra's Mario. You will sample that. Yes, I will. All right, have you done the Careless Whisper one yet?
[01:06:49] Little Wayne No, I keep asking. I had told Fabian, my engineer, he's putting a beat together. Got it. He didn't want to give that opportunity. He heard it when you said it. I was with him, we was watching it. So he's not giving no other producing opportunity. I don't wanna be a bad guy, but I've, yeah. He's not given no other producer opportunity to do that.
[01:07:07] Craig Carton We have a great guest here for tonight's episode and you'll be happy Wayne because it in my opinion is one of the ten best Lakers And no, LeBron James is not here because he's not a top 10 Lakers. We only book stars is what we do, as you know. So ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Derek Fisher comes by. The joint venture. What's up? How are you kid? Come right in. I gotta be honest, I thought you'd be a little bigger. Not gonna lie to you. I feel like it's subjective. Bigger is subjective. I've lost a couple pounds though. I feel I can back you down, Derek.
[01:07:45] Derek FIsher Yeah
[01:07:45] Craig Carton A lot of people thought that yeah, I was money in the jcc league like I could handle my business Yeah, it's chyam goldberg. I was the man
[01:07:55] Derek FIsher I don't know him.
[01:07:57] Craig Carton By the way could go left couldn't go right just like that sounds like me a little bit I didn't realize as we were getting ready for this I've always said I think you're the 10th greatest Laker of all time I think Lebron's 11th we can debate that on another show on another show.
[01:08:13] Little Wayne Don't feed into it yet. What? That's not crazy to say. When you consider
[01:08:19] Craig Carton Five championships!
[01:08:21] Little Wayne Yes.
[01:08:21] Craig Carton You won three in the Kobe Shack era, you won two in the Koby Pagasal era, how many dudes have five championships?
[01:08:29] Little Wayne Exactly.
[01:08:29] Craig Carton Not a lot. So if we're going to judge guys, legacy, I think one of the ways to judge them is champion. If you're going, Bill Cartwright's got like four and he wasn't the best player in the Bulls, but
[01:08:40] Derek FIsher Five. Robert Ory. There are some. Robert Oury, right? Yeah, Robert's got seven. Big shot, Bob. Yeah, seven titles. But it counts, like we all won the championship together, but some responsibilities are different than others. For sure.
[01:08:53] Craig Carton For sure. Yes, you weren't asked to carry the team, but you've played meaningful
[01:08:57] Derek FIsher if you're one of those champions. I mattered. You didn't have them without me, but at the same time, there's a difference between where I'm being.
[01:09:05] Little Wayne Without you.
[01:09:05] Derek FIsher Yeah, but it's a difference between what I did and what Kobe did or what Shaq did.
[01:09:10] Craig Carton But you don't have to be humble now your career is over. You don't think give me the cliche
[01:09:14] Derek FIsher I was raised this way, bro. That's not going to end. I told you don't feed into this.
[01:09:19] Little Wayne I told you, bro.
[01:09:20] Craig Carton Building up to the fact that I was on the radio and Derek was the coach of the Knicks so we've got beef which we're gonna straighten out today we're going to get it all out today I know you're like man I do now
[01:09:30] Craig Carton afternoon is killing me.
[01:09:32] Derek FIsher No, I did not listen.
[01:09:33] Derek FIsher Three minutes for the next video.
[01:09:35] Craig Carton Like three minutes, man.
[01:09:36] Derek FIsher For the Knicks to come up. He's having his time.
[01:09:40] Craig Carton Knicks, of course, NBA champions as you guys all know. Let me just do the Knicks stuff, get it out of the way. I've made the argument, when you look at the dudes who are on the Knics, when you coach them, all due respect to, you know, Prigioni, and obviously, Mello was still there, Perzingos was there, I think, for the second year you were there. You were not dealt, to be fair, no, I'm not taking shots at any Yeah, you didn't, of course we booed poor Zingas. We didn't want poor Zangas, right? When we drafted them, we didn't want them and Phil thought he had, you know, this unicorn, which there are moments he had which are great. Yeah. You didn't like poor Zingas either. You like everybody though. You're one of those dudes, you're special. I've never met a guy that loves everybody. Like for real, Wayne, you've never once told me I don't like that guy. You've never once told me I don't like that guy, right?
[01:10:27] Little Wayne He's amazing though. Yeah, no, he's not. When he's out.
[01:10:30] Derek FIsher Yes, when he's healthy. That's yes, that's yeah. No, he was that year in that draft. He was the right guy to draft I don't disagree with that three guys in front of him No disrespect to those guys, but I would argue Chris has been just as impactful or more than the three guys
[01:10:46] Craig Carton We're great with the Celtics, obviously. Injuries in Dallas, injuries in Washington. I think if he stays healthy, we might be talking about, yeah, maybe not a Hall of Famer, but a guy that can win a championship. Is that fair? Is that fair?
[01:10:58] Little Wayne Right. Because you're on the championship team and contribute. Right.
[01:11:00] Craig Carton Just walk me through the hiring process phil jackson gets a job he's running the next obviously and then he hires you i think right after you retired as a player
[01:11:09] Derek FIsher Yeah, I wasn't sure I was retiring as a player. I think the whole conversation started with Steve Kerr turning down the job. Right. Because it was offered to Steve, I think, first. Do you know why he turned it down?
[01:11:21] Craig Carton I'll tell you why. Marv Albert told Steve, do not take that job. For a myriad of reasons. Not just one, not just talent, you know, ownership, some other things. He told him, you're going to regret taking that job and you're not going to last because there's not enough talent to win. And if you don't win in New York pretty quickly, you go on. They don't mind writing you the check. They'll stroke you the cheque all day. So go ahead, start We're gonna wrap.
[01:11:43] Derek FIsher No, no, no. So I think Steve turning it down created an opportunity for Phil to think about who was the right next person that he had alignment with and how the game should be played, how you build teams, etc. And so I hadn't decided I was not going to play again. But once the conversation started, I just kind of took a step back and I was like, all right, I played 18 and a half years. Long time is now a good time to think about coaching and doing other things in basketball that I could do for another 20 years, because I love basketball that much. So I was like, yeah, now's the time to.
[01:12:20] Craig Carton There was no thought of, I need a break. 18 years is a long time, dude.
[01:12:25] Derek FIsher Right? No, I wouldn't have. I may not have had a job, but I wouldn't of taken a break from basketball.
[01:12:30] Little Wayne It's a blink, it's an eye blink when you're doing what you love.
[01:12:33] Derek FIsher Yeah, I wouldn't have, I mean...
[01:12:35] Derek FIsher You tell me like it's okay
[01:12:39] Derek FIsher I'm I'll go executive producer project exactly instead of being on the song like you're not going to wait a year to Project I love music. I'll do the project and that my thought was that and it wasn't I didn't know enough about Organizational structure and whether it was the right job to take I just knew that I loved the game Feeling I had a good coach player relationship. I thought that we could find a way to work together. Did he try to
[01:13:06] Craig Carton Did he try to force you to coach the triangle or is that you coach the team your way?
[01:13:12] Derek FIsher I wouldn't say force but it was clear. That's what the expectation was because it had so much success
[01:13:18] Craig Carton Yeah
[01:13:19] Derek FIsher It's part of any job you take. There's some jobs you take and you work for other people. That's what it is. And they make it clear that there are certain things that they want to happen. That was, it was made very clear.
[01:13:32] Little Wayne Most likely part of the reason why he was also chosen because he knew that he knew he knew the he knew he knew the triangle.
[01:13:38] Craig Carton I mean, it makes sense. And if you hire Phil Jackson, you'd be stupid not to let Phil dictate what type of offense we're gonna run, right?
[01:13:45] Derek FIsher Yeah, I think in some ways, yes, but like at any level, once you hire someone to manage or run something, if you micromanage too much, it just won't work. It doesn't make it clear for the people that you're asking to do the work. But what's new is in
[01:14:01] Craig Carton thing about that we used to go after phil jackson as new yorkers i was on the fan during afternoons at the time i like the do you don't even live in new yorke he was in montana
[01:14:11] Little Wayne Chillin, chillin. Don't you?
[01:14:11] Craig Carton No joke like I'm not telling tales out of school is well documented. He's like, yeah, I'm the next president But I got a home in Montana and I'm spending time in Montana You're not we're like you gotta be a New Yorker to be the name. What's that? It's cold. Yes, it's cold It's called in Montana, too. It just got a nice a crib
[01:14:29] Derek FIsher I mean, I think he was also learning how to be an executive. He had been a coach for a long time. But being an executive of a team and running a team off the court is different. Right. And I mean there are a lot of things that go into winning or losing. I mean Mike Brown's the coach of the Knicks now. People thought he couldn't coach when he got let go from the locker room. Well that's because LeBron told people he couldn t coach.
[01:14:50] Little Wayne You know that story. Tell me. I'm happy for Mike. I'm like, I'm Exactly. So just sometimes.
[01:14:56] Derek FIsher You know, whatever you're doing, the perception can be that you didn't do it well, or you didn't a good job. Sometimes things just don't work out, and it's not because you aren't good at what you do. It just didn't work.
[01:15:08] Craig Carton The situation just wasn't right for you at that time. Like Tibbs. By the way, Tibbs got him to an Eastern Conference final, and they thought that was where he maxed out. Tibbs is also one of those dudes where he's on you.
[01:15:21] Little Wayne White on rice, all day, every day.
[01:15:23] Craig Carton And I think some veterans get turned off by that also, like, they're like, I know how to play basketball. Like, yelp the rookies. And I don't think that's why Tibbs sometimes kind of outwears his welcome a little bit. But he's obviously a great coach.
[01:15:34] Derek FIsher Some people are wired to coach that way. Dan Hurley with UConn, he talked about we're not supposed to do this job like we're gonna do it for 40 years. It's okay to burn out in some ways and do the job at a really high intense level. So Tibbs takes no days off. He basically sleeps at the office. He loves what he does and he's gotten great results from all the teams that He's coached. Exactly. Winning a championship can't be the barometer of whether you are a good coach or not.
[01:16:07] Craig Carton To the fans it is, but it's not fair. That's not realistic. Everyone can't win a championship. And I'll tell you, it's better than I can, there's a bunch of dudes, I'll just name one, Draymond Green. You put Draymon Green on Memphis, he's not a multiple championship winner. And we look at him differently. In football, Steve Young. Steve Young stays in Tampa, he ain't in the Hall of Fame, so sometimes you're a great player in the wrong spot. Sometimes you're really good player in the right spot, and you're viewed differently, right? Too brief.
[01:16:36] Derek FIsher He's another great example, right? I mean, I don't think I would have five titles if I didn't get drafted by the Lakers if I wasn't a teammate. Yeah, you got lucky in that one. Yeah, there was some luck involved. He did. He got lucky. There was some lucky involved.
[01:16:50] Craig Carton It's not a knock Wayne. He admits he got lucky. He gets drafted by the Nets I've never seen an interview you've done where somebody doesn't ask you about Kobe So I'm gonna follow my I know Wayne of course had a great relationship with Kobe and Vanessa and their family I know you you guys are very special friends. I know he said that you were his favorite teammate You guys got drafted in the same year. He's coming out of high school. You're coming out older and out of college, obviously. So he's not Kobe Bryant yet. When you guys first met, did you guys just hit it off from jump or was that a process for you guys to become the level of friends you guys became?
[01:17:34] Derek FIsher Yeah, it took some time, I didn't understand in my brain how somebody that was in high school six months ago could actually come into the NBA and have that level of impact. Wasn't computing for me. So starting out, I don't have any expectations of him in one way or the other. I just kinda, cause I was also focused on like- Getting you right. Yeah, I was gonna be in the NBA, so I couldn't worry too much about him, But. Where we kinda built our relationship was just in the sweat equity of like, we were both rookies. We both had to come early. We both have to stay late. We trained together. You know, we pushed each other. We played full court one-on-one. We worked out together. You ever beat him? We beat up each other quite a bit. I don't know if I ever beat them. I don't know if there ever was a score, actually. There's always a score. You know full well you didn't beat him. I don't remember us getting to whatever the final score was. Because he got too physical, and at some point, F you, F you. We're out.
[01:18:34] Craig Carton We're out, let's grab dinner.
[01:18:36] Derek FIsher That I gotta think. Yeah, there was some times we...
[01:18:38] Craig Carton He probably respected that about you though, that you didn't give in, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like you can't possibly describe the loss that everyone suffered. I can say that I was in a place with a lot of grown men that saw tears coming down their faces when the news hit that he had passed. There was actually a story, the rumor was that you were on the helicopter with him at first. People started putting out out there.
[01:19:00] Derek FIsher Because you guys are so close the teammates as well. I think Rick Fox was reported on the chopper when a couple other
[01:19:07] Craig Carton your phone obviously your phone blows up because of the devastating news but I imagine there are people in your life that were concerned you were there too yeah
[01:19:14] Derek FIsher Yeah, my kids called me first, which, to your point, I was on my way to LAX to catch a flight because I was coaching the LA Sparks at the time. So I was I was, on my, way to the East Coast to basically go recruit free agents, Andrew McCarty and Chelsea Gray was already on the Sparks, but Team USA was out at UConn. So I, was about to get on an airplane to fly there, my kid's called, freaking Now. Um, so I turn around, go back home and obviously the rest of the day is what it was. But, um, yeah, we were on the same helicopter though. Previously. Previously. Wow. Such a bug. Same exact helicopter. Yeah.
[01:19:58] Craig Carton Yeah, that's one that you feel that one for sure. Yeah. Where were you when you heard the news, Wayne?
[01:20:02] Little Wayne I was in LA. I was actually in LA, yeah. I remember I was just in a hotel room, and I thought it was a room, though.
[01:20:08] Craig Carton Right. You found on your phone or you didn't turn on the news or something? It didn't feel real.
[01:20:10] Little Wayne Yeah, I had to call people that I know to make sure yeah, yeah, you know then you just deal with
[01:20:17] Derek FIsher the rest of the day after that.
[01:20:18] Craig Carton You kind of go through it numb.
[01:20:19] Derek FIsher Right. Yeah, it took a while for me to accept it. I didn't really break down or cry until I came home I don't know a few days later. They were showing I think Yukon Put Gianna's Jersey, Cody's Jersey some flowers on a couple court-side seats and inducted her Yeah and it was it was walking in the house and seeing that on TV and like the reality that like she was gone and how the family must feel, like that's what took me over the top. It took a while for me to accept it was reality, but understanding that she was gone at that moment. Yeah, that's when it hit you. That's when he hit me. Gotcha.
[01:21:03] Craig Carton Um, let me try to get back to basketball here, but I think it's pointing. I think those stories need to be told. You're going to keep the memory alive. And I know you did a lot of projects with them and you Kobe well. Yeah.
[01:21:12] Derek FIsher In 2009 when we won the title, we had a championship celebration that Wayne was kind enough to come and do a song or two and just show us love that night. Of course. Are you a part of the Lakers celebration? Of course! Of course you! It was a memorable evening. He's got it!
[01:21:27] Craig Carton He's got, your fandom is out of whack though. I'm still trying to figure you out. Green Bay Packer fan, Boston Red Sox fan, LA Laker fan. It don't work. Yeah, you're a front runner. That's what Derek Fisher just called you a front-runner.
[01:21:42] Little Wayne I was a kid during these times, so you're playing games. Yes. So this is when you're playin' the game and so.
[01:21:50] Craig Carton You took the best team in the game.
[01:21:52] Little Wayne No, I took who I liked you did a base on players not teams. Exactly. Okay, Kobe fan, and I'm a Laker friend Hard talking against that one. I went and I told you what the I'm already a sock fan Right because of Pedro. Okay poppy and then you know in Green Bay I told her they came to New Orleans and that was a rap for you
[01:22:13] Craig Carton My kids are like that too. Kids don't root for teams anymore.
[01:22:17] Little Wayne They root for players. That's changed dramatically. Because of the social media. That's true too. Yeah, because I grew up on teams. Same, I grew on teams, so Jet fan, Nick fan. I stayed a fan of the team. A lot of those players went to other teams. So when you played video games.
[01:22:30] Craig Carton So when you played video games, you would be Kobe and NBA, you know, one K, whatever was happening. Or Tecmo Bowl. This guy is crazy. Do you remember Tec Mo Bowl? Yeah. Lawrence Taylor. You couldn't stop Lawrence Taylor? You couldn't t stop Bo Jackson. Or Bo Jackson? Your game wasn't fair.
[01:22:46] Derek FIsher You're old enough to play Tecmo Bowl. Yeah, I played Tec Mo Bowl for sure. Yeah, Tec mo Bowl.
[01:22:51] Craig Carton I got the college points. I paid my tuition back in the day. Of the five titles you won in LA, you got the three, Kobe Shaq, then a couple years go by, you leave LA, come back to LA a few years later on, and then you have the Kobe Pau Gasol.
[01:23:08] Little Wayne Yeah.
[01:23:09] Craig Carton Every championship's a great championship. Do you value one over the other? Obviously, Kobe Shack's a whole different combination, unstoppable. Do you think the next two were more significant for you when you look back with clarity on your career at the time?
[01:23:25] Derek FIsher Yeah, it's, I mean, when you have kids, like, it's hard to say one is your favorite or more memorable experience, at least not in front of them, you're trying not to. My youngest son's my favorite, I'll just say that. Right. You can do that. No, because he's here today, so. But I feel like the 2001, which was the second of the back-to-back, and 2010 kind of stand out to me the most. 2001. Kind of started with a funny story. So in 2000 we won. I was coming off the bench on that team. Who's starting ahead of you? Uh Ron Harper. Okay. Good player. And yeah. Good player. Great player. Championship player. Yeah. Understood the triangle. Yeah at play for field before. Um. His son balling right now. Yeah, his son is balling by the way. Yeah fearless. Yeah Dylan. Yes. Yes. Uh feel like bigger guards and that so after we won that summer uh me, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant on said of the Jamie Foxx show. Okay? And we're having a conversation backstage. And Kevin Garnett's like, bro, like I just won the championship. Like what else is there? Like what more do you want? And I was like, honestly, I wanna be in the game, in the finals, in the fourth quarter. I wanna make big plays. I wanna to be responsible for the outcome. And so in 2001, that experience came to life for me. And as a pro, that was like the light turned on of light. Saying things out loud and visualizing what you've manifested into reality. It happened. And from that point on, like that's how I approached the rest of my career.
[01:25:06] Craig Carton What did you not do that earlier in your career, like speak things into
[01:25:08] Derek FIsher speak things into existence? No, before that it was just, I'm gonna work harder than everybody. I'm not saying anything. I'm just gonna work and work and I'll be here.
[01:25:17] Craig Carton Do you think part of that mindset, because of where you were drafted, that you felt like chip on your shoulder, people don't think I'm good enough to get to this level or that level?
[01:25:26] Derek FIsher Yeah, I mean, a lot of it was I didn't always think I was good enough. So that was that was how I channeled that. Like sometimes that lack of belief in myself was like the work is going to even out the competition. Like, why do you think?
[01:25:39] Craig Carton Why do you think like when you look back? Why do think was it because you were playing against guys that you watched growing up? Like oh my god I'm on the same court is blank that you didn't think you belonged on that
[01:25:48] Derek FIsher This was kid stuff. I think this was like, you know, my dad was my coach on some of my teams and like Sometimes my playing time was up and down and and so navigating that as a kid when your dad is the coach, right? You're questioning whether or not you're good enough because if your dad don't think you're Good enough to be out there. You need you gotta ask your dad was a tough love coach. He was like my son's playing short
[01:26:10] Craig Carton stop it leading off and you start in point guard and your dad was like, you're sitting on your ass.
[01:26:15] Derek FIsher And that doesn't happen these days. That shaped me early, but I also doubted myself at times for some of those reasons. So going through the pre-draft process, I didn't know I was gonna get drafted. I didn't know I wasn't gonna make it to the league. I worked myself into being a first round pick and then worked my way into sticking around for 18 years. But that wasn't because I felt entitled to it, I just grinded and grinded. Thank you.
[01:26:38] Craig Carton What was it like for you, and I don't put my hand in other people's pockets, but the first time you made serious money, how life-changing was that for you? Did you buy something crazy? Were you like, this may end tomorrow?
[01:26:50] Derek FIsher Putting it in the bank, don't touch it? Nah, the biggest thing for me was, like my parents had sacrificed so much. The first thing I did with real money, when I first got some money, I bought myself a car. What kind of car? Hyundai? Nah, Lexus, it was their first year making basically the Land Cruiser, but Lexus came out with the 470, the LX 470. Okay. And I thought I was... The badass. What? You're like, woohoo, look at me! I had Nas, if I ruled the world, playing 24-7. Loud too. For six months straight. That's all I played. As loud as humanly possible. Yeah, you could have said you had little Wayne playing design. Nah, I went out back then. Like it? Yeah.
[01:27:36] Craig Carton Wait, hold on. Windows down, like extra bank.
[01:27:40] Derek FIsher Singing out loud, 15s in the back, loud. And then when I signed my first free agent contract after my rookie deal, and there was a couple more zeros on it. I wrote my mom and dad a check, like you guys are retired. Wow.
[01:27:56] Craig Carton That's going to be a special moment. Yeah. Because they didn't ask for it. They didn't want it.
[01:27:57] Derek FIsher Because they didn't ask for it. They didn't want it. No, you know, it was my dream. I asked them for permission to pursue it because they wanted me to finish school. Right. And I was basically like, I think if I really stepped away from school and just concentrated on making it to the league, I think I can get there. And so they basically allowed me to withdraw.
[01:28:18] Craig Carton We don't know about that Wayne, there's no such thing as an overnight success. We don't learn about Derek Fisher until he's in the NBA. Some people fought you in college obviously, right? It's like no one knows the work you put in. It's just like, oh Wayne's got another hit, but they don't get the hours and hours and hours that you spend trying to perfect it, the hours, and hours, hours you spend working on some aspect of your game that you're concerned about. That's what I love about it. I've never met a successful person that hasn't been in the lab. For a ridiculous amount of time, which is what sets successful people apart.
[01:28:52] Derek FIsher Right? Yeah, the lab is, yeah, I love that framing of work because the lab is unseen. Right. There's no cameras in the lab. That's where you're supposed to make mistakes and fail and blow something up because it wasn't the right combination and like really perfect what it is you're trying to do. What was the weakness in your game?
[01:29:13] Craig Carton What was the weakness in your game that you had to perfect in your mind?
[01:29:15] Derek FIsher I love that part about it too. Yeah. You love the work, right? Yes. Yes. You love it. I was a combo scoring guard in college. I wasn't really like a catch and shoot perimeter guy only. And so once I made it to the league, and now Shaquille O'Neal is my teammate, which isn't bad. And he's always going to have three people hanging off of him. I had to learn how to catch and shooting ball from three better. I just did. So I just spent a lot of time in the off season perfecting. My ability to catch and shoot the ball.
[01:29:45] Craig Carton Were you guys aware that Kobe and Shaq weren't getting along? Was that something you guys knew way before we knew it?
[01:29:52] Derek FIsher Has that relationship kind of deteriorated it was always different than at that time it was newspapers So the things that were written in the newspaper
[01:30:05] Craig Carton Yeah, it was like.
[01:30:05] Derek FIsher What was written in the newspaper that came out on Friday was like oh news to us Yeah, it's like why are y'all still writing about something that may or may not have happened two weeks ago, right? So that at times didn't always align but yeah, I think Not getting along is not how I saw it. I saw as iron sharpening iron really Yeah, like because both guys were alpha male guys both guys wanted the opportunity to be responsible for the success of the team. Shaq knew it and understood how to be that sooner than Kobe because he had been in the league longer. And I don't think Kobe didn't understand that. I just think there were times where they didn't always see eye to eye on how we should play in order to be successful. So there's an early
[01:30:55] Craig Carton So there's an urban legend out there that, and I may butcher it a little bit, but you'll get the point of it, that Kobe was about to set a record for most games like over 40 points consecutively, and that Phil Jackson went to him and said, we're losing Shaq, because you're taking so many shots. We're winning, but Shaq's now disinterested, because if he doesn't get the rock a certain amount of times, he just tunes it out and he's.
[01:31:16] Derek FIsher Yeah, but a lot of bigs are like that.
[01:31:18] Craig Carton Okay, so the story goes that Phil Jackson goes to Kobe and says, you can't shoot 30 times tonight. You gotta give the ball to Shaq, meaning you gotta give up a chance to break an NBA record so that Shaq is now mentally into the game. I'm not saying you know that exact story, but does that story shock you? No, it doesn't.
[01:31:40] Derek FIsher One, that Kobe was great enough to score 40 points that many times in a row. But two, I'm not surprised that those are the types of conversations Phil would have with guys. He had a conversation with Shaq about not doing as much music and doing things off the court when he first came to LA in 99-2000 because he felt like Shaq was capable of doing more. That's the one year Shaq the MVP of the league, 99- 2000. Right and not a lot of coaches could have pulled that off feel had that conversation with him And so I'm not surprised by the conversation And and if you think about it, right like Steve Jobs and Tim Cook, okay like Steve jobs birthed Apple right and but Tim Cook was very very very Key and vital to the success they had which is why the keys were given to him when we lost Steve Jobs. I Guarantee you they had some uncomfortable meetings Between the two of us
[01:32:41] Craig Carton Steve Jobs didn't shower Okay, like come on. All right Didn't shower okay, he was like a Buddhist or something. Oh, maybe they argued about that Yeah, like people used to say he'd come in the room and clear the room out, right? Soap ivory
[01:33:03] Derek FIsher Irish spring something like you drive an Uber again, so we don't know but we don't talk about like they didn't get along we just we talk about Apple is arguably still the most exactly highly valued company in the world where there's not a bunch of urban legends about Steve Jobs and Tim Cook didn't get along and right now we talked about the greatness of Apple so that's how I view Shaq and Cove like I was I was a guy they could see What Wayne wanted to accomplish on this project that we're working on, what you wanted to accomplished on this project that we working on. Maybe you two don't always see it the same way, but by the time we finish, we gonna make a great ass project. So that's how I saw it. I never saw it as like, they're not getting along, it's just they each have a different vision for how we gonna a great project. Right.
[01:33:54] Little Wayne Like, if the question was, hey, because this happened and because they didn't get on, it was never there. It's just we heard urban legend. Rumors. That they didn't get it. Nah, that's because the reality is because the audience is campionship. But I think you, I think Derrick also makes a good point. Shit.
[01:34:07] Craig Carton And the point you make is, it's like, they talk about Mickey Mantle in the 50s. If there were cell phones and social media around, like Mickey Mantel would not have been Mickey Mantell, right? Now, the best, if I may tell you, the best New York story like that was Daryl Strawberry.
[01:34:23] Little Wayne 86 met when you say about that, but social media was it I don't know. We would have had the meds
[01:34:28] Craig Carton We were not. That team was doing crazy stuff. The 86 Mets won a World Series and there was a guy on the team, saw a pretty girl, signed her a ball, put his number on it. She calls the number and in the middle of the game she comes down, they go into the locker room, do their thing and she goes back to her seat.
[01:34:48] Little Wayne Well, Daryl's strawberry. 30, 30 stories. Yeah.
[01:34:52] Craig Carton I don't know if it's in there, but Daryl Strawberry finds out that one of his teammates just hooked up with this random gal in the crowd and he goes, if anyone's doing that during a game, it's me. Tell her to come back. She came, she came back and Daryle said, I'm the captain of this team. Now could you imagine if there were social media and cell phones when that happened?
[01:35:14] Derek FIsher Derek Fisher? No, that's probably best for everybody's sake that they run high.
[01:35:21] Craig Carton Let's go back to a key moment of your career. Obviously, you've talked about Game 5, Western Conference semis, 0.4 seconds to go. You guys are playing the Spurs, right, if I'm not mistaken? Yeah, now what I want to know is was that the play call in the huddle, you know
[01:35:38] Derek FIsher I'm thinking the play call is not 50 fish the ball. I'm on a team with Kobe Bryant and why would I be the first out?
[01:35:44] Craig Carton That's a great question, but Steve Kerr made a big shot for a championship, Paxson made a big for a big championship.
[01:35:49] Derek FIsher But that wasn't the first option. The first option was Michael Jordan had the ball. Two people went to Michael Jordan. He passed it to Steve Kerr. John Paxson's jumper was Horace Grant, actually. I think he got a pass from Scottie Pippen to Horace Grant. Horace grant then turns and throw it behind him, which I was screaming at the TV, like why is he throwing the ball back out? And then Paxon makes the three. On my play, no. Kobe was the first options. Shaq was the second option. I'm just standing there and I see space. And on offense, space is good. And so I ran towards the space. Gary Payton was taking the ball out on the side. And in those situations, a lot of guys try to force the ball to Kobe or to Shaq because those guys are the first two options. But because GP is an OG and he isn't stressing over, I have to force it to somebody. I'm gonna just make the right play. And so he throws the ball to space and because I'm left-handed. And the basket is this way, I was able to, the ball could come from off camera onto camera, but I could catch it late. So I couldn't catch it back here. Because the clock will run out. Because of the clock. And then turn and go shoot. So you're actually.
[01:37:01] Craig Carton So you're actually processing that mentally in that moment? In the moment. So let me stop you for a second there. A lot of athletes we've talked to tell you that in major moments like that, everything slows down. Was it like that for you? Sure. It was, like slow motion, like whoo.
[01:37:14] Little Wayne Super slow.
[01:37:16] Craig Carton Thank you very much so much.
[01:37:19] Derek FIsher But yeah, super slow, where it's like, because everything is happening in like those tenths of a second. So the ball's coming, I know I can't catch it back here. I had to basically pass me to catch it here so that I could turn and go up and shoot it. I'm falling back, which I don't take a lot of off balance shots, because that's not my role. So when I first shot the ball, I thought I shot that ball way too hard. This is gonna go over the basket. And then because I was falling away. But the brain was on autopilot of like understanding how much touch I need to put on the shot falling away, but then halfway there I'm like, oh no, this ball might be going in, this is on line.
[01:37:57] Craig Carton And that's in slow motion too, like the flight of the ball.
[01:38:00] Derek FIsher All of it.
[01:38:01] Craig Carton Was it like an out of body type thing?
[01:38:03] Derek FIsher I don't want to make it more serious than it was. No, not out of body, just slow motion. Like I'm following the ball. It leaves my hand. It's way too hard, but then halfway there.
[01:38:13] Little Wayne Halfway there. He had time to think, nah, that's too hard. Then in the mid shot he also sees that, oh no, that is going in there.
[01:38:21] Craig Carton Which is crazy to have that mental ability in such a short amount of time in the.
[01:38:26] Derek FIsher Like, when the ball goes in, that's when it snaps back to real time. And you're like, holy shit! Biggie, you better not curse. I know you don't curse that much. That's when I jump up and, like, take off sprint. No, I got to, I'll say a few curse words here.
[01:38:39] Craig Carton We all say a fuker, but I know you're a very religious guy.
[01:38:44] Derek FIsher It was a moment.
[01:38:46] Craig Carton That is some effing moment.
[01:38:48] Derek FIsher But it was, yeah.
[01:38:49] Craig Carton So I heard a rumor about you. I heard that for a period of time after you made that shot, that if people went to your house to visit you and they rang the doorbell, instead of hearing a doorbell they heard the play by play of that shot going in. Is that true or not?
[01:39:05] Derek FIsher You know that's not true.
[01:39:06] Craig Carton Not true? No, that is not true. I feel like I might be joking. I've never heard that. Nobody's ever heard that before. Like, instead of ding-dong, Fisher, fade away.
[01:39:15] Little Wayne No, I've heard athletes ask the question like that and the answer is yes. See? I would do it! I've had that before.
[01:39:22] Derek FIsher No, the play originally for years, and this is real, for years I really didn't go back and like actually enjoy the play. The rest of that particular season, I didn't watch it back. It wasn't until after the season, I needed it to like heal from us. Like we lost in the finals. Right, right. And at that time, like. If we didn't win the championship, like the season was basically a failure. That's fair. So the shot for me reminded me of the fact that we did win the Championship. Weird way depressing. Yeah, so like we that was the Western Conference semis. We make it to the Western conference finals I don't watch it because I'm still in like win now mode. We'd make it two the finals. We lose For like three weeks after the season. I'm steel like I'm pissed I'm mad and I got to a day where I was like, I'm gonna watch this back and just get it
[01:40:15] Craig Carton So you didn't watch it at all even like the night you go home or a hotel wherever you guys are at You couldn't watch that shot because in the moment you haven't lost yet. You haven't been knocked out, right? Haven't been eliminated No, you didn't watch it for weeks. It was all about man. I would watch that so many times I was going to win over. I didn't know like that. Look at what I just did tonight I still had to win game six to advance. Forget game six. I just won game five Like you got to enjoy it in the moments. You can't enjoy it. You didn't enjoy that moment. No What? Thanks.
[01:40:45] Little Wayne That's wild because he was in the moment, he was still in the movement.
[01:40:48] Derek FIsher See, like we enjoyed it that night as a team, but it wasn't something that I could like go and watch the replay. At that time, we didn't really have, there was no social media. Exactly. So you didn't have that 24 seven loop of highlights. That wasn't our experience. So it was, I could almost kind of ignore it or hide from it.
[01:41:10] Craig Carton So three weeks later whatever it was we finally sit down Did you watch the whole game or did you just say let me just let me check out the shot And did you watch it by yourself?
[01:41:20] Derek FIsher Yeah, I'm like, seriously, bro, like blackout, dark curtains, pissed that the season is over and we lost the championship. And it was like, it was a weird year. You know, we had been together for eight years, you know, myself, Colt, Shaq, Phil Jackson. It's hard to be together that long. You know there was a lot of stress and anxiety type things. And so yeah, just closed curtains, dark, watched all the games back, but then. Get to that play and replayed it a bunch of times. I didn't even realize like my new genobli is like literally like this right in my face. I didn't even see him until I watched the replay back. I didn't even know he was there. Really? When I caught the ball my eyes just went. So you blocked out in a weird way. It just, my eyes went straight to the rim, which is what now as a high school coach that's what I'm telling the kids all the time. And you show them the play? Eyes to the, no. Oh, man, I'd show that's like black and white VHS. It's almost
[01:42:20] Craig Carton He's watching on Betamax like what is this coach? It's interesting to me. I assume you coach your kids in high school, right? Yeah, are you tough on them like your dad?
[01:42:29] Derek FIsher Was tough on you? Nah, I coached different. It's different, right? Yeah, I didn't coach any of my boys until they got to high school. So I didn't coach them when they were, yes. But you had to reverse to what a lot of guys do. Because for me, and again, I love my dad. I wouldn't, he's still with us. I wouldn't change anything because the work ethic, the grit, the understanding of how to go through hard things wouldn't be there without him. But I also, I never wanted my relationship with my sons to be weighed. Based on how they performed athletically. I never wanted them to get in a car or a ride home from anything and feel like my love for them was different based on if they turned the ball over a night. And I felt that as a kid in terms of my relationship with my dad. So I kind of went the opposite way. I've always wanted their athletic journey to be theirs. When I would go watch them play, I'm not yelling and screaming. It's hard, isn't it hard to watch? It's like I asked Wayne earlier.
[01:43:26] Craig Carton His son is on stage now and he's performing at Wayne's concert.
[01:43:29] Derek FIsher Please tell me how that but it like cuz I I don't
[01:43:33] Craig Carton I can't it's hard is this hard to watch them and not want to say something because you played in such a high level
[01:43:39] Derek FIsher Yeah, it's hard, but at least for me, you have to do it. It's their turn now. So I don't like, how do you handle those moments?
[01:43:47] Little Wayne Because it's art, it's kind of natural to stay out of it, and I think I'm sure it would be different if it was athletics, because there's a right way and a wrong way to do things in that field. That's true. It's art. So I want you to make your own mess-ups and figure out how to clean that up, because it's arts.
[01:44:09] Craig Carton Do you think you would have made it if your dad wasn't like that? No. So you do credit him for your success?
[01:44:14] Derek FIsher For your success. Yeah, 1,000%. Delayed gratification is a lost art. Exactly. Which is interesting you say that. That's what my dad taught me.
[01:44:22] Craig Carton It's interesting to say that, because I have something here for you. I don't want to give you a take on this, all right? That's all right, don't mind that. Don't have anything.
[01:44:29] Derek FIsher Don't have anything
[01:44:34] Craig Carton I promise and I promise you're gonna remember this interview too. Okay. All right, so I'm gonna show you a picture You have to tell me is your next bite a B or C? I'm going to show the camera first before you all get to see it. All rights. That's what I'm showing All right. Now. I'm sure you guys is your next bite A B or c and before you answer I'm Gonna tell you that depending on what letter you choose It says something about your personality. You want to go first Wayne a B or see what's Wayne's next bite?
[01:45:03] Little Wayne Uh... I think uh... A!
[01:45:09] Craig Carton Interesting right a b or c you could and you could pick the same as wayne if that's what you choose
[01:45:13] Derek FIsher Nah, I'm gonna go B.
[01:45:14] Craig Carton You're gonna go B. All right, you're not gonna like this. It says here, if you pick A, you are a psychopath. What? Says who? Says the people that took two bites out of the sandwich. All right? If you had picked C, it means you're a strategist. If you pick B, as you did, it means, you like instant gratification. But that seems to go against your personality. But you're a psychopath! Probably why we get along. Yeah. Interesting. So there you go. Yeah. There you go!
[01:45:53] Little Wayne That was very interesting.
[01:45:55] Craig Carton I respect so much about you being a family guy and what you just said about your kids. Thank you. You had a very public thing with your daughter when she was sick and I had a tough time pronouncing it.
[01:46:05] Derek FIsher But she had no blastoma.
[01:46:06] Craig Carton Which is, just tell people what that is.
[01:46:07] Derek FIsher Yeah, so it's a rare form of eye cancer. Right. And any cancer in the eye is close to the optic nerve in the which is attached to the brain.
[01:46:19] Craig Carton So you made a tough decision as a competitor in the post season when you were with Utah at the time, where you made the decision to be with your daughter by her side when she was going through some type of treatment and then famously got on a jet when you felt that she was in a safe place, flew back to a playoff game, showed up a little bit late, as I remember it, for the game and then had a hell of a game. Walk me through the emotions of what your daughter was going though because you're us in that regard, and then making the decision. At a point as a dad where you felt she's in good enough hands where I can leave her and go do my job.
[01:46:55] Derek FIsher Yeah, I definitely didn't leave her. That wasn't gonna happen. I think the helpless part is the key part here, because as a dad, the one thing you feel like you can never do is leave your kids feeling helpless. Sure. But in those moments when there are medical things involved, that's how it felt. There wasn't anything I could do. And so we were very fortunate to find. Experimental trials and treatments that ended up working greatly and, you know, killing the cancer and the tumor and saving her eye, because the treatment options basically were try an experimental trial or remove her left eye. Wow. And for us as a family, it was basically when she grows up, because we never even thought about her not growing up, we want to be able to say to her, that we tried everything humanly possible to save her eye. There's no way you can just take a kid's eye out without trying everything you possibly can. So that was the first step. The surgery, the plan was to have the surgery and fly back to Utah no matter what. I would not have gotten on the plane in New York and flown back to the Utah and left her there. Part of the treatment plan was the best thing to do is to have the treatment clear recovery. And then get her home to comfort and then just let her rest for a couple of weeks. So we were flying back to Salt Lake either way. I had not planned on playing though. Wasn't until we landed and we're getting off the plane, the team had organized a police escort to get us home safely so there's no issues. And then I get there and I land and like one of my teammates, he hurt his neck during the game so they had to take him to the hospital. And there was all kind of crazy stuff going on. So they asked me if I wanted to come. During the game? During the games. But I'm on the tarmac. I don't know at what point the game is. You just know the game has started. I just know that the game has already started. Mentally, you're not playing. I'm not playing And your phone rings? No, and somebody was at the airport. So they're out on the Tarmac. We're having this conversation. And so we're gonna go home. I go back on the plane, have a conversation with my wife. We're like, well, she's asleep. There's nothing we can do. We're not gonna know anything until three weeks from now. So we agreed it's okay for me to go to the arena. I still don't know if I can even play. I haven't touched the basketball in three days. So I get to the Arena, it's the third quarter. I'm walking in the Arena. You walk in, in the third corner? In the third. For some reason, there's cameras following me in, but it's because people didn't know where I was. Like, nobody knew I was in the world. Right, nor should they, by the way. Right, correct. Personal business. So, yeah, go to the locker room, throw my jersey on, ride a stationary bike for like four minutes, and then I walk out onto the bench. I plan to walk out and sit down on the bench and be ready just in case. Did the crowd go crazy as you walked in? The crowd is going crazy, and in Salt Lake City, powder blue is part of the team colors. So you know how to hand out the t-shirts. So I'm walking into the arena and 20,000 people have on these powder blue t- shirts and it's like you're walking into heaven. Wow. It was crazy. So they're going crazy. I have no idea why though, because they like, I guess they're happy to see me, but I don't even know if I can play. I'm going out there to go sit down on the bench and be ready just in case. Before I could even sit down, the coach calls my name to go in the game. Jerry Sloan? Yeah. And you're like, coach, I'm just here. Support the guys. I'm just here to be here just in case you need me. It was a blessing though because I wasn't able to sit down and actually think about what was even happening. It just was autopilot like right into the game and so I just kind of concentrated on playing defense the rest of the fourth quarter and then when the game went into overtime I finally started to feel comfortable enough to like take a couple shots and I hit the big shot in the left corner that kind of secured the win for us. So then after the game. I still hadn't decided I was gonna tell anybody what had happened. Did your teammates know? No, just Jerry might have known the owner knew the owner the head athletic trainer They may have told coach Sloan. I'm not sure Wow, and so in the moment Pam Oliver who she does football games
[01:51:30] Craig Carton She was the Fox silent reporter for a long time, right?
[01:51:34] Derek FIsher In the moment, I just kinda decided to share, more to make sure that other parents didn't ignore some of the symptoms or signs that they might see with their kids in terms of how their eyes might look or the way they're reacting to certain things. And so I just kind of more so shared the story to help other parents catch the cancer early. And it ended up being something that changed a lot of lives and a lot families around the world ended up hearing about this because of- and probably had.
[01:52:04] Craig Carton You know, saved a lot of people as I say. It's the stories like that are why, again, we're all respect to anyone's religion. It's why there's something. However you want to believe what it is, that doesn't happen without something else out there looking after your daughter and your family. I truly believe that. And I became more spiritual when I lost my freedom, but wherever you get there, you get that. And that story, like you thought you were walking into heaven. That's how it looked, it's like it was death. You think they're going to applaud you when you go to heaven. That's what I learned from you.
[01:52:37] Little Wayne You're like, hey everybody, Darren Fisher's here, woo-hoo! No, I'm just kidding.
[01:52:43] Craig Carton That's all I got. I hope if I go to heaven, they clap for me. No, they don't. Carden made it! Woohoo!
[01:52:48] Derek FIsher Well, yeah, no, actually, they will. They probably will. I was thinking about it, yeah. Let's see you walk into the heaven. They are definitely talking.
[01:52:53] Craig Carton Very very true. Before I let you go, this is awesome. We can talk to you forever. I did write down, I may have dropped it. Let me see if I have my handy dandy notes here. Here we go. First off, we all agree MJ is the greatest of all time. Is there any arguing with that?
[01:53:08] Derek FIsher Read what you're gonna read. I mean, we could be here all day.
[01:53:12] Craig Carton That's a man. All right. I've got no particular order. Okay, other than number ten my ten best Lakers of all time Okay, all right your tenth just a full reveal. Thank you Derek Fisher five championships I think you're second to LeBron as you sit here today in Playoff games played and playoff wins. I believe you're a second of all-time Ego aside. Do you believe you should be in the Hall of Fame? No i think you should be you went to eight finals you want five of them and your second now when you retire your first all-time playoff games played and and wins have you ever considered the whole calling you
[01:53:53] Derek FIsher No, like the Hall of Fame is rightfully designed for guys that like individually, like are by far like the best players that have ever played professional basketball in terms of like their production, their stats, their impact. Like it's different than being part of great teams in my opinion. Like I'm okay with it. I know the five championships like didn't just fall into my lap. Like I know how much I had to do with them. But at the same time, I do recognize there's a difference between me and Magic Johnson. That's fair. You know, Dion said. I should not be in the same room with Magic Johnson, but. And yet you have been many times. Yeah, which is crazy to think. Like that was not, you could not have told me that was what my life experience was gonna be.
[01:54:42] Craig Carton Was there a guy when you first got into the league that you were like, I can't believe I'm on the same court as this guy? Jordan's the obvious answer for a lot, you know, generationally. Was there guy you remember as a rookie, you got on a basketball court for the Lakers and holy crap, look who's on the other side.
[01:54:56] Derek FIsher Side a guy that you grew up? Yeah it was it was weird. I had a weird thing with competitiveness like my brain didn't work that way. I couldn't wear Air Jordan shoes. Really? As much as I respected Michael Jordan. What'd you wear? Converse? No, when I was a kid I did yeah but my first couple years in the league like who wanted to give me shoes? Nobody knew who I was. So did you go to Dix and like hey you got the Kobe's? Carl Kanaugh used to make basketball shoes. He did. Yeah, he did. Say that again?
[01:55:25] Little Wayne How can I?
[01:55:26] Derek FIsher What the hell is that?
[01:55:27] Little Wayne It was more of a clothing brand.
[01:55:29] Derek FIsher Clothing brand but he so basketball shoes then I've switched to and one and then by the time I'm a third or fourth year Then Nike can't call it nice. It's nice. Hey, it's
[01:55:39] Craig Carton That's a nice check. B, it's unlimited sneaks. By the way, I asked Wayne a month ago, I called Wayne up and I said, is it true that there was a moment in time where K-Swiss were cool shoes to wear? And what did you say? I said yeah. He's like, you're the black ones, right?
[01:55:55] Little Wayne That is black and white.
[01:55:56] Craig Carton Right, and Swiss Beats was a big K-Swiss guy. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's what I heard. I heard they named him after him, but that might not be true. I don't know why you went fed into that. I'm just saying, I heard that might be true! When he first said, Snaps on you? I knew he was... All right, let's get back to top 10 Lakers of all time. No particular order, other than my man here's 10. Kobe, we all agree on. Will Chamberlain, obvious. Shaq, obvious, Jerry West, the logo, obvious Magic Johnson, that's five. All right? Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, obvious. Elgin Baller, obvious, this is old school. George Mikan, I think you have to put him there as well. I put James Worthy in there. What's your thoughts on James?
[01:56:40] Derek FIsher I'm not mad at that. Showtime Lakers, right? Yeah, I'm now mad at them.
[01:56:42] Craig Carton That's nine. You're ten. Okay, and at some point we get to LeBron That that's not a diss on the Brom by the way
[01:56:50] Little Wayne You don't look like a shackle. You say shackle? I got shackle, yeah.
[01:56:53] Derek FIsher Is that a fair top 10 list, you think? Overall, it's fair. I just, LeBron's been here eight years, bro. Like, he's- Without a championship. No, he won a championship in 2020, bro- No, no he didn't.
[01:57:04] Little Wayne Bro, that whole conversation was for you, for this moment. Yeah, but I, I, but, I see.
[01:57:10] Derek FIsher I'm on the radio now so I know about these things a lot. Yes, you are just talking about this you and Cody Decker mornings in LA I know Cody. Yeah, let me break this down. Good. Steph Curry is the only NBA player in The last eight seasons. Okay, that has two NBA championships as a face of the team 22 and 2018 Okay, okay Nicola Yoke is 2023 one time Kawhi Leonard 2019 rap one title 2021, Milwaukee Bucks, Yanis, one title. That's because Durant was on the line. OK. 2024, Boston Celtics, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, one title. That's right. 2025, Oklahoma City Thunder, SGA, one title. That dynasty's dead. Right. So why are we acting like LeBron hasn't done something? Because it was the bubbles, Derrick. Because he has one title in the last eight years. Just like everybody else on that list, I just said, except for Steph Curry. But it's a bullshit title. There were no fans, there was no road games. You still had to play the games though. Even Alex Caruso said it's a BS title. No, I don't think he said that. He did. He said it was probably different. But I don't think he called it a BS one. He's still wearing that ring. Yeah, I'm sure he is wearing that.
[01:58:24] Craig Carton Uh... Blessing for you reference that you do in morning radio now in l.a. Which is a whole different animal on that you got to get up to three thirty four o'clock in the morning i know you don't like doing that now i i said to cody because cody's a dear friend of mine yeah uh... We met cody last time and i said every guy's got one great show but not everybody wants to show up the second day because it's a job you've only done for a couple weeks now and i've been listening in I think it's been great, great launch. Are you enjoying it as much as you thought? Is it more work than you thought, where you at?
[01:58:57] Derek FIsher Weeks into a new career I'm enjoying it I wouldn't say more less than what I thought it was gonna be I think the main thing for me is like just being who I really am yeah and not allowing the platform to turn me into like I'm I'm gonna start sounding off on players and coaches or moments it like I was out there I know it doesn't always go the way you wanted to go but it's it's it's not easy job to do like like you done it for a long time you understand the world that it is and like it's you think you're just talking sports but it's much more than that yeah it's like it's an art form yeah and so I'm learning my way and and again I want to be authentic to who I am but um also yeah there's more to me than just you know being a basketball player and a basketball coach right
[01:59:46] Craig Carton That's gonna be the hardest thing for you as you start doing this more and more, is opening up other parts of your life to the audience. Cause the audience is gonna care about what you and Cody do and say. And you're gonna talk about your family at some point when you're comfortable doing it. It's not just gonna be X's and O's. Let me break down the Laker game last night. To be successful at it, you're gonna open up a whole new part of you that you've probably protected. That's gonna be the hardest part.
[02:00:10] Derek FIsher 1000%. But that's why I actually chose to do it. Because if I didn't choose to do something like that, I would never open up that way. Like I would just always stay in the cut. But I'm now in a position where I'm gonna have to meet that moment and it'll happen at the right time. I appreciate you coming by. Appreciate it, man. Nothing but success in your next job.
[02:00:31] Craig Carton Nothing but success in your next job. That's Derek Fisher everybody. One of the 10 greatest Lakers of all time Him says everybody LeBron call him who LeBrun and I at some point Wayne's gonna bring LeBran here And we're gonna have at it and we'll do it once and we put it to bed Wayne. No There you go Psychopath. Hey, you chose a