The Willies

Damo and Lily put The Black Phone and its sequel side by side to ask what makes horror actually stick. The first film earns top marks — a basement, a disconnected phone, and a villain whose quiet calm is scarier than any monster — while the sequel swaps claustrophobic dread for ice-rink showdowns and lore that explains a little too much. Two films, one big lesson: the closer horror stays to the ground, the harder it lands.

Show Notes

The scariest mask isn’t the one with horns. It’s the one that feels possible. 

We dive into The Black Phone and its sequel to test a simple claim: horror hits hardest when it stays close to the ground. The first film is a masterclass in tight dread—school, home, a basement—and a villain whose calm menace lingers long after the credits. A disconnected phone that won’t stop ringing, a boy learning to fight back, and Gwen’s visions that blur trauma and second sight: this is horror that respects our nerves.

Then we pivot to Black Phone 2, a sequel with big ideas and bigger moves. The early promise is there—snowbound landscapes, eerie dream-logic, and threads of the Grabber’s past flickering through ghostly footage—but the tone drifts. Instead of claustrophobic terror, we get an ice-rink showdown and lore that over-explains while undercutting risk. When almost no one dies, danger starts to feel optional.

We talk about why spectacle rarely replaces fear, and how a single choice—shifting from human evil to supernatural theatre—changes everything.

Along the way we compare notes with Sinister, call out script choices that dull sharp edges, and map the moments that still deliver genuine unease. We also rank the “stupidity index” for both films, share the blunders that pulled us out of the story, and yes, imagine how each of us would meet our end in both universes. If you care about what makes horror stick—pacing, performance, plausibility, and the power of suggestion—this one’s for you.

Enjoy the breakdown? Follow the show, share it with a horror-loving friend, and leave a review. Your messages help us pick the next film—and your best “how I’d die in a horror” ideas might make the show.
Join Lily and Damien as they dive into the world of horror films with humour, insight, and caffeine. From cult classics to guilty pleasures, they prove there’s no such thing as a bad horror movie.

Damo & Lily :)
  • (00:00) - Cold Open And Host Banter
  • (02:45) - Introducing The Podcast’s Premise
  • (05:10) - Editing Style And Authenticity Chat
  • (06:45) - Today’s Focus: Black Phone 1 & 2
  • (09:30) - Housekeeping And Listener Plugs
  • (12:20) - Why Black Phone 1 Works
  • (16:20) - Quick Plot Recaps, With Spoilers
  • (22:10) - Ghosts, The Phone, And The Grabber
  • (26:30) - Comparing Sinister And The Black Phone
  • (30:40) - Where Black Phone 2 Goes Wrong
  • (36:20) - Script, Tone, And Language Gripes
  • (41:30) - Camp Lore, Wild Bill, And The Ice Finale
  • (47:00) - Scares That Land Versus Empty Spectacle
  • (51:20) - Blunders In Black Phone 1
  • (56:40) - Blunders In Black Phone 2
  • (01:02:30) - “How We’d Die” In Each Film
  • (01:07:30) - Stupidity Index And Final Verdict
  • (01:12:00) - Wrap-Up, Support, And Next Pick Tease

What is The Willies?

The Willies, a horror-comedy podcast about the things that scare us — "big, small, ridiculous, or genuinely unsettling." Hosted by Damo and Lily with rotating guests. Funny first, creepy second.

Lily:

Genuinely, only reason for their presence is to remind us that it's a Christian camp, really. Exactly. Because I can't even remember their names.

Damien:

Let's call them Janet and Bill. Yeah. Barbara. Barbara maybe. Maybe it's a Barbara.

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. But I

Lily:

mean The sanctimonious twat is that directed at. But, like, why are they

Damien:

they don't even die. They do they not? No. No one dies. No one dies in this film.

Lily:

So it's a happy film.

Damien:

It is a happy film. You could call it happy. Hey. That's how it started. Okay.

Damien:

Now this seems more awkward than last time, isn't it?

Lily:

It does. I thought this would get easier with time, but it feels worse.

Damien:

Apparently not. Okay. Well, we're in. Yes. So tell you what, you picked these films.

Damien:

So

Lily:

Did I?

Damien:

Yes. You bloody did. Well, we picked one and then you were like in a week, were like, Demo, we can't do one without talking about the other. So here we are. An awful impression of me.

Lily:

You need to work on that.

Damien:

Okay. I'll give it

Lily:

some thought. Okay. Okay. So let's not have a repeat of last episode where we spent the first sixteen minutes in utter chaos.

Damien:

Mhmm. Yeah. We did talk some non we were what were we? Nervous? Excited?

Lily:

Special.

Damien:

Special. Special. Special. Well,

Lily:

we're trying to keep it tighter this time, apparently.

Damien:

Can we just talk briefly about the fact that we have a teleprompter in front of us, because trying to be professional, and it's printed on a piece of paper and we've already gone

Lily:

Off piste.

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. Let's rein it back in, shall we?

Lily:

Okay.

Damien:

Okay. Okay.

Lily:

So let's smoothly roll into I'm Billy. And

Damien:

I'm Tamer.

Lily:

And this is

Damien:

A Series of Stupid Decisions, a podcast that celebrates

Lily:

Every questionable, baffling, idiotic choice in horror cinema.

Damien:

Look at that.

Lily:

You've changed that's updated. That is

Damien:

I am a man who moves quickly and Oh. Jeez. Holy shit. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Damien:

Yeah. I'm bang. Okay. I'm sorry. It's alright.

Damien:

I won't edit it out because, you know,

Lily:

We're good. Inauthentic.

Damien:

Now, that also reminds me, I know I know you're pointing at that. We do need to move on. But also, what do you prefer, Lily? Do you prefer podcasts where people just talk and there's like gaps and there's, like, filler words like and but and ah and stuff, and you don't edit it? Or do you like the ones where people go and then, like, move around really quickly because the edits are really quickly?

Lily:

Well, based on our first episode where you did both versions of that Yeah. I didn't like the cut one because it felt like it lost the flow.

Damien:

It did lose the flow.

Lily:

So my answer would be where there's filler and gaps.

Damien:

Just leave it.

Lily:

Yeah. Just leave it. I think so.

Damien:

Joe Rogan leaves it, doesn't he? Well, he is. Anything.

Lily:

An expert at podcasting. Yeah. K.

Damien:

Well, and and we're not? Okay. Alright. Well, that with that in hand then, it was probably gonna go out unedited unless Lily says something out of order.

Lily:

Which is highly likely. Yeah. Yeah. To be honest. Yeah.

Lily:

Anyway Okay. Let's go. This episode, focus. So it was gonna be just Black Phone. Yep.

Lily:

However, doing my homework and watching the film, I realized that there actually isn't a lot of stupid decisions. It's a really well made film. Yep. So then I thought the podcast would be really boring. Whereas our reaction when we both watched Black Phone two, which was the reason for this starting in the first place

Damien:

It was. I'll surprise you later.

Lily:

Okay. Nothing weird.

Damien:

Sorry. I

Lily:

lost my train of thought now. Well,

Damien:

crack on.

Lily:

You know, it's like I can't remember what I was saying.

Damien:

Black Phone one is a the Black Phone one

Lily:

Yeah.

Damien:

Is an extremely well made film where generally

Lily:

Not a lot went wrong.

Damien:

Not a lot went wrong. There weren't many just silly decisions. There was one or two, though.

Lily:

Yeah. I I think I have two.

Damien:

Right. Well, maybe the same ones, we'll get around to it, won't we? Yeah. Let's not know what we did last week and go straight into these like, let's do the thing. Okay.

Damien:

So yeah. You wanna go straight in? Well, do we? Hang on. We got some mandatory plugs.

Lily:

Oh, yeah. You can say them.

Damien:

Oh, I'll say them then. Okay. We have a website. We host this, This is not a sponsored thing. I wish it was.

Damien:

It'd be nice to get some money, wouldn't it? Yeah. On that episode two. Where's my money, Lily? I'm not doing this anymore.

Damien:

I want my money. Okay. So we are hosted by Buzzsprout. Think that's right. But when you host a Buzzsprout, they give you lots of nice tools for your podcast, and one of them is a website.

Damien:

So if you go to a series of stupid decisions dot Buzzsprout dot com, you'll find all of our stuff there. And there's also I was gonna say, it's later on, ain't it? Later on, we'll talk about the fact that you can support us.

Lily:

Yeah. But you can still say that people can message us to give film suggestions

Damien:

They can. They should.

Lily:

Or ways that you think we might die.

Damien:

Yeah. Ways yeah. We I don't about you. Did did you watch or listen back to the podcast? Yeah.

Damien:

Yeah. You did? Okay. So there was a bit where we talked about how we would die Yes. In The Evil Dead.

Damien:

Yes. And that was one of the bits that made me laugh the most.

Lily:

I did find that funny that you were the first to die and had nothing to do with demon possession.

Damien:

Just fell. Just fell down.

Lily:

So on brand.

Damien:

Pulled through a bridge.

Lily:

So on brand.

Damien:

It would yeah. It would be me. And you died fighting like a fucking trooper. Pardon my French.

Lily:

Yeah. I'm gonna try and mix up some different deaths. I don't wanna seem like that cricket who always thinks they're gonna survive. You

Damien:

know? Although you probably are.

Lily:

That's what people they choose me for their zombie apocalypse team.

Damien:

Do they? Yeah. That's a whole another thing. Right?

Lily:

But I think it's because I'm generally quite calm when faced with stress.

Damien:

Oh god. Now I wanna go into the whole zombie apocalypse conversation. I love it so much, that conversation. Can we do like a special feature where like, not in this one, but we do a podcast where we do discuss Zombie apocalypse. Yeah.

Damien:

Just one question.

Lily:

We have to do a zombie film. That's what we first bonded over.

Damien:

It's my turn to choose next week. It is. And I will be choosing a zombie film.

Lily:

Okay. Well, that's sorted then. That's part of that.

Damien:

Which reminds me, Lily. There was a film coming on a good jump. So I think it's just I can't help it, but I really wanna see that film, We Bury the Dead. Yes. Okay.

Damien:

Right. Okay. Continue.

Lily:

Anyway, so the way we started it last episode was trying to summarize the plot of the film in under sixty seconds. So I feel like it makes sense for us to take one each.

Damien:

Oh, okay. Do you want me to take the first or the second?

Lily:

Did you end up re did you watch Black Phone two recently?

Damien:

I did not watch it when I said I was going to watch it. I did something else instead. However, it is freshly logged because I did listen to our original voice notes.

Lily:

Yeah. That was a good idea for me, which I didn't do. Just just stupid.

Damien:

You surprised me. But no. I did I did have a listen, and I did laugh again at everything that was said.

Lily:

Oh, we might have to upload them. You know?

Damien:

Thinking about splicing them into the edit. Or if you get to the end of the podcast, then you can maybe hear snippets of those things.

Lily:

You lucky things.

Damien:

But I'll clear it with you first, though, because you do say some difficult things. So do I. As in like

Lily:

Things that will get me in trouble.

Damien:

No. Just swearing.

Lily:

Oh, that's fine.

Damien:

Yeah. Okay.

Lily:

That's fine. I thought you meant I said, like, rude stuff.

Damien:

No. Just swearing stuff.

Lily:

Okay. So if I take Black Phone one, the Black Phone, and you take Black Phone two? Mhmm. Does that sound good? Mhmm.

Lily:

Okay. Do it. Summarize the plot. I mean, I'm gonna say black van

Damien:

Mhmm.

Lily:

Young boys, pedophile, murderer. How do we

Damien:

know that he's ever done things with them or did he just kill them because they're naughty boys?

Lily:

Well, he whips them. So I guess oh, we should spoilers of all the films we talk about Oh, yeah. By the way. Yeah. He whips them.

Lily:

So I guess it depends if he gets, like, sexual gratification from that or whether it's all just power.

Damien:

Have you knowing the program and and having watched I don't if you watched it, the Netflix drama by David Fincher, Mind Hunter.

Lily:

I've watched some of it. It was a bit chaotic

Damien:

Yeah. Sure.

Lily:

For me.

Damien:

But there's the idea, isn't it? Sexual sexual gratification through killing. So I hadn't thought of it that way. I just thought he was a nasty bastard.

Lily:

But also the game being called, like, naughty boy or I was like, mhmm. Yeah. Some and he's topless.

Damien:

He is yeah. Oh, god. Yeah. When he's no. Do you know what?

Damien:

I forgot about the bit where he's just sitting next to Finney. Finney wakes up and he's just sitting there topless and then he just says, the grabber this is, he just says, oh, I just watched.

Lily:

I know.

Damien:

And that's like, oh,

Lily:

dude. Previous shit. Yeah. So summary, black van

Damien:

Mhmm.

Lily:

Young boys

Damien:

Grabber. Yeah.

Lily:

Pete Pieder Voll, murderer. Yep. Yeah? Yep. Under sixty seconds, I think.

Damien:

Under sixty seconds? Well under. And yeah. Okay. So Black Phone two.

Lily:

I guess I did kind of neglect to actually mention the phone, which

Damien:

You mean

Lily:

the The name of the film.

Damien:

The basement, the ghosts, the phone.

Lily:

I didn't nail it at all. Why did you why did you, like, enable me? You were like, yeah, Lily. Nailed that.

Damien:

Literally, you to feel at least feel like you're doing well.

Lily:

Well, some constructive criticism next time will be appreciated because I hold myself to a high standard and frankly, the bar is on the floor.

Damien:

This one, I will just glare at you meaningfully then, and I won't say it down. But yeah. No. That's you got it though. The gist

Lily:

of it. I mean yeah. Yeah. And I feel like I probably should have mentioned the fact that, you know, young boy gets kidnapped Yeah. In a basement.

Lily:

Yeah. There's a black phone on the wall that isn't connected.

Damien:

Why do you think it's black? It could've been a different color.

Lily:

Good. Is it just because it's ominous?

Damien:

I think so. If it was the pink phone, it'd be a whole different film, wouldn't it?

Lily:

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The being called the grabber as well, that can mean something completely.

Damien:

The pink phone grabber. That would have been a different film.

Lily:

Oh god. That sounds awful, doesn't it?

Damien:

It does a bit.

Lily:

Grab my pink phone.

Damien:

Dude, why do take it there?

Lily:

I just rephrased it, really, from what you said.

Damien:

Alright. But you

Lily:

Pink phone grabber, grab my pink phone.

Damien:

Words have meaning

Lily:

Don't make out like, I'm the problem. Okay. Anyway Okay. Black phone and that phone rings despite being disconnected to help the boy who's been kidnapped escape from the grabber. That's a better plot summary.

Damien:

Alright. Who's helping him though?

Lily:

Maybe maybe I should leave that on

Damien:

the film. Because we're gonna talk about the actual films, we? Yeah. Okay. Right.

Damien:

Synopsis. Okay. Background two? Yes. Alright.

Damien:

It's cracking. Okay. So okay, Finney is a bit more grown up. His sister, he's also grown up. She still has these dreams.

Damien:

Finney still sees the grabber and I think still hears the phone, maybe? Anyway. They find out about the summer camp where the mother used to go. It's not going too much detail about phone numbers and stuff and numbers, but what we do know is that at some point, they need to go to that camp, which is now in the winter rather than the summer. They're gonna go visit it.

Damien:

They're gonna find out more about the grabber and try to deal with an escalating issue with children that have been missing for a very long time. That's about it apart from there's a lovely resolution on ice, dancing on ice, which is

Lily:

Grabbing on ice.

Damien:

Grabbing on. Grabbing on. And then, yeah, we we we come to the resolution of the film where we realized that actually my god. Well, I can't remember her name.

Lily:

I the sister. This was my point. The first when I watched Black Phone two, I so we both made the mistake of not rewatching The Black Phone before going and watching the second one because there was so many details while I was watching the film thinking, this makes no sense. Why have they put so much emphasis on this? EG, the dreams.

Lily:

Yep. EG, the sister in general.

Damien:

Yep.

Lily:

E g, the weird comments she kept making. Yep. And it was only then when I went back and watched The Black Phone for this podcast, I was like, oh, actually

Damien:

Yeah. She plays a vital role.

Lily:

She is key, and that is the fact that she has, like, this supernatural gift of she dreams real things happening Yep. Which is how she ended up helping.

Damien:

That's right. Basically telling the police exactly what they needed to And then we realized, of course, that her mother had the same thing, which is kind of important. And then the reason why all this kind of kicks off is the fact that we resolve it, that that is not a curse, it's a it's a gift. It's a gift. It's a gift.

Damien:

Yeah. Okay. That's mine was shittier than yours, as it turned out.

Lily:

Cons yeah. Considering mine on reflection wasn't very good, mine was still better, It I was.

Damien:

Yeah. I'm sure. I can't do concise because my mind flutters around like a a butterfly.

Lily:

You just love to chat shit, isn't it?

Damien:

Yep. Yeah. I'm good at chatting shit. I'm great at it. Right.

Damien:

Okay. So synopses are done. Okay. Oh.

Lily:

Did we like them?

Damien:

Did we like them? Well, this is a bit of a discussion, isn't it? Because

Lily:

Why is the demos screenshot for Lily? That's my surprise. Okay. I was like

Damien:

That's my

Lily:

gut reaction. DeMo screenshot. I'm like, good lord.

Damien:

It's not a pink phone. No. It's just a little bit of a bit of history, really. But okay. I think, you know, yeah, go for it.

Damien:

But which one was stronger?

Lily:

In a good way.

Damien:

As in, like, which of the films was the stronger film?

Lily:

Oh, The Black Phone. Right. Easy. Like, I genuinely think it's a really good horror film. Good as Yeah.

Lily:

Yeah. And there's not many stupid decisions, honestly, in the sense not the classic ones.

Damien:

Not the classic ones. The the the one that does ring out is to me though that are we into the whole thing about talking about the bad? No. Not really, Lip, because we've the blunders bit coming up next. Okay.

Damien:

So think we've got to talk about we are, aren't we? It's because it's exciting. It is. It is. And the the crux really of this whole thing, isn't

Lily:

it? Yes. Okay. So okay. I think the Black Phone is much stronger just in every essence.

Damien:

Yeah. It's kind of like quite, like, tight, the fact that it's shot. That's something I've not considered, but the fact that it's kind of shot location wise, school, home, the basement. Mhmm. And the fact that it's the basement keeps the film very, very, very tight, and kinda easy to watch and more, I suppose, kinda without no pun intended if it's a pun, but more sinister.

Damien:

Right? Yeah. Because, like, it's hard to talk about this without talking about the second one, which is your point. Mhmm. You need to talk about both at the same time.

Damien:

But in this one, the horror, I think, is tighter because there's the bit you know in Sinister the film Mhmm. When you're like, oh, what's going on? And then he goes into the son's bedroom, I think it's the son could be the daughter, and there's the ghost crouched by the bed in the corner. Right? Yeah.

Damien:

I think that's one of the first, oh my god. This is this is a proper horror. Yeah. The bit where in Black Phone oh, know. We'd last talk about it?

Damien:

Yeah. We were talking about the film or something, not the Blunders. Yeah. Okay. That's nice, isn't it?

Damien:

So it's the bit where he gets the first phone call Yeah. And it's like, yeah, this is what's going on kinda. He's just getting snippets, isn't he? Like, you know, oh. But you don't see the dead kid.

Damien:

No. But the next one you do, the camera moves. So now you see that behind Finney while he's on the phone is this dead kid

Lily:

Mhmm.

Damien:

Who's talking to him on the phone.

Lily:

Mhmm.

Damien:

That's like a real tight moment of horror. Yeah. And then that continues to happen even to the point where one of the ghosts that appears is kind of maybe sort of hanging almost like suspended. It's horrible.

Lily:

Yeah. Quite shocking.

Damien:

Yeah. Really good.

Lily:

And he's got his, like, throat slit,

Damien:

doesn't he? Yeah. Rough. And and that is like all the first film is like feels like proper like a proper horror with very few moments where you're kinda like, oh, as if you do that. Yeah.

Damien:

Just a couple in my

Lily:

There's particular one. I was watching it, and I was like, oh my god. That's so annoying. Yeah. Yeah.

Lily:

And that's one of my main ones.

Damien:

How would you I not be how would you compare because I know you love Sinister.

Lily:

It's my favorite horror film.

Damien:

Right. Okay. So how would you compare Black Phone, like are they bearing in mind, I think it's the same director, same crew, same cast.

Lily:

And Ethan Hawke as well is the main character.

Damien:

Like, would you put Sinister above the platform?

Lily:

Yes. But that's because I think the tapes and music in Sinister just adds this layer of, like, it makes your hair, like, stand off on end, you know? Yeah. And I think it's that that the boogeyman is just, like, horrible as well. It's the kind of thing where if you paused the film to go and get a drink and you left that on the screen, it would move even though you'd paused it.

Lily:

It like gives that energy, you know?

Damien:

Yeah. Totally. I this has only happened to me with two films ever. And one is the Japanese version of Ring. Mhmm.

Damien:

So Ring and Sinister Mhmm. Where I've had to turn off the TV, hit the lights in the living room

Lily:

Mhmm.

Damien:

Run upstairs, hit the lights in the hallway, get into bed, and pull the duvet over my face.

Lily:

Right? Funnily enough, also happened to me with The Ring.

Damien:

Dude, what? Japanese or American?

Lily:

American, but it's because I watched it when I was really young.

Damien:

Oh, yeah. Well, you shouldn't have watched that when you were young.

Lily:

This is what happens at sleepovers and then you're traumatized for weeks on end. But like, I would have dreams of, like, nightmares about it. It was awful.

Damien:

Sadako became something that I would see in the daylight hours Yeah. Across the road, like, pointing.

Lily:

Oh, I know. But so

Damien:

Anyway

Lily:

On on theme with tangent. Yeah. The Black Phone and Sinister, I think they're comparable. And also with Sinister two and Black Phone two, I think the difference is in both the first ones, it's not that they're trying to make the kids the scary thing. They're sort of just a side note that are contributing to the story.

Lily:

Like, the grabber is the scary thing in the first one. Whereas in in the same with Sinister, like, the scary thing is the boogeyman, not the kids. Yeah. Whereas in the second Sinister, it's like the kids are meant to be this, like, really scary, intimidating thing, and it's like, that doesn't really land. And it's kinda similar in Black Phone two, that, like, the kids like, when it's that kid's face, like, drops off and stuff, and you're just a bit like, Yeah.

Lily:

Am I meant to be scared at this? So I think the key thing is, like, when you're trying to make the kids the scary thing, I I don't know if it lands.

Damien:

Yeah. I I I agree because the well, if we move on to so we I think we don't agree that, you know, the number one is the better film, the tighter film, the scarier film. Mhmm. So, you know, all around, go watch Black Phone, The Black Phone. I mean, wouldn't watch them out of sequence anyway, but if you have to pick one, that one.

Lily:

Yeah. Yeah. But to be honest, I genuinely don't feel or I mean, now I've rewatched it and there are more similarities than I thought. But my original review of Black Phone two was they should have just made it a completely different film. It didn't need to be a sequel Yeah.

Lily:

Because the energy of it was just completely different. The first one was about, you know, an actual murderer. Yeah. Whereas the second one was, like, supernatural stuff.

Damien:

And and we're gonna get onto, aren't we? But also a bit dumb. Right?

Lily:

A bit dumb.

Damien:

A bit dumb. Not really stupid. So if get into the second one, got a lot to say about it because that's, like, the reason we started this whole thing anyway with the podcast was just this realization that we both quite like talking about, like, crap horror or crap things that happen and bad choices that are made. So but Black Phone two kind of does a bit of both because it not only are there some very, very silly decisions in that film, But there are also moments where you're like, yeah, that guy would die. Yeah.

Damien:

Yeah. And also, why are those people in the film? And also, why did this film start off so well and end up so very poorly?

Lily:

Right?

Damien:

But I kind of wanna go through, like, beginning to end. Mhmm. Because the beginning is, in my mind

Lily:

It was good.

Damien:

Really good. Like, it was a perfect continuation.

Lily:

Twenty eight years later where the first half is good.

Damien:

I can only think about big cock.

Lily:

But do you not remember the first half is good?

Damien:

I got a disclaimer. I don't always think about big cocks. It's just that one film. That's not true.

Lily:

How dare you? Like, why are you lying?

Damien:

I'm not going. Okay. Continue.

Lily:

But it's the same as in that, like, the first half had so much potential and then it just went off a cliff.

Damien:

Yeah. In a weirdest way.

Lily:

Yeah. The same with this. Okay. So

Damien:

So what what happens in the film? Right? What happens?

Lily:

The first one? Well, are we skipping?

Damien:

I don't mind really. I'm I'm happy to talk about the first one because the first one is, like, there's some Master Craft horror.

Lily:

Yeah. I mean, you just talk about the blunders because there's not that many, so we'll probably get through it quite quick.

Damien:

Okay. Would you wanna do blunders next or do blunders now? Would you wanna talk about Black Phone two? Where do you wanna go?

Lily:

Are you not gonna talk about the blunders of Black Phone two? Or do you mean, like, summarize the

Damien:

Let's go Blunders Black Phone one. Okay. Then we'll talk about Black Phone two. Okay. Blunders Black Phone two.

Damien:

Okay. And then whatever's next. The tally prompts that we're clearly not using.

Lily:

I mean, I am.

Damien:

I am. Yeah. But you're good at this.

Lily:

Like an old traditionalist. Like a bit of paper. With, yeah, anything other than, you know, yeah. Whatever.

Damien:

Okay. So Blunders and Black Phone one, you go first and let's see if, like, we have the same ones.

Lily:

And this to be honest, this is a real stretch because I was I only think I wrote down two or three. First one is sister who is younger than him. So what would say how old she is in the first film?

Damien:

She feels like she's about nine.

Lily:

Yeah. I was gonna say it. So nine. She has this he's already been kidnapped by the Grabber. He's been missing.

Lily:

She starts having dreams about him in the house Yep. Where Finney might be kept. So then she goes out on her bike on her own Yeah. Looking for this house when there's a kidnapper about. I was like, what are you doing?

Damien:

I mean

Lily:

That was my first one.

Damien:

There's a bit where I watched that moment and thought like I suppose for the audience, we're supposed to think like, oh, no. She's cycling past the grabber's house. So what if he whips out and grabs her as well? Yeah. I don't think that would be a great plot plot move.

Lily:

Also, she doesn't fit the brand of young boys, does she? So

Damien:

No. She doesn't. That's true. And also, she can't go to her father because her father is clearly a drunkard because of the death of the mother because of the dreams that she was having and the suicide and everything else. What was

Lily:

it? Mhmm.

Damien:

And, yeah, that that that is a big blunder. Why would a nine year old kid go out on a bike and do that? I suppose if you've no one else to turn to, but just a brother mate. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Damien:

I'd be like, Mike, could you come out with me? Because I'm a bit scared on my chopper. Yeah. Also, blundering that, I'm gonna pull an eighties on you again. Like, in the last one, said, do you know what a video nasty is?

Damien:

Yes. Right. And this one, I'm gonna say, do you know what a chopper is?

Lily:

A motorbike.

Damien:

Oh, yeah. As well. But that that bike that she's on is like a bike that was only sold in the seventies and eighties as far as I know, and it was a rally chopper.

Lily:

Mhmm.

Damien:

They're like the most dangerous bicycles ever. Right? You can't steer them. My mate Jamie had one. We were kids.

Damien:

I had a Kuhara because I had watched ET and I wanted to BMX so I built one of my own. But my mate had Chopper and that thing was dangerous. So she goes on that that night, I think it's raining

Lily:

Mhmm.

Damien:

In the dark on a bike that is barely barely viable. Yeah. So all everything's wrong with that.

Lily:

Yeah. Everything. Okay. Anyway Next point. Flounder?

Damien:

Next blunder. Okay. I'm gonna rewind a little bit.

Lily:

Okay.

Damien:

We're aware that some children have already gone missing. Right? The young lad who is, like, super punchy karate kid.

Lily:

The one who gets taken.

Damien:

Right. He's gone missing. So we've got kids that are already missing. They know it. It's all around the neighborhood.

Damien:

Mhmm. Finney is like, I'll walk home on my own.

Lily:

I mean, there isn't much really announced in that sense. It's not like there's a curfew or any You think, like,

Damien:

I would assume at school assembly, it'd be like, excuse me. Sit down quietly. Right? Could you make sure you walk home with a friend?

Lily:

I know. That's what I mean. There's nothing in the film that's like you know in Scream?

Damien:

Yeah.

Lily:

They put a curfew in. Right. But they didn't for these children.

Damien:

When when I was at school, if there was some dude hanging around

Lily:

One that's a murderer?

Damien:

Well, yeah. Or just a dude hanging around in a rain mac. At the end of the they'd be like, alright. Make sure you walk home with a friend. Never get stranger danger, they'd say.

Damien:

Stranger danger. Yeah. And then there was adverts about it, like, if Charlie and I are in the park and all this stuff. Right? Anyway, nothing is said.

Damien:

It's like, oh, it's walking on my own. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, I'm magician. I am magician. That

Lily:

That is how kids get lured in. Have you not seen this is such a tangent, but someone did a social experiment where they, like, talked to parents at a park beforehand and they were like, does your kid know stranger danger? And the parents were like, yeah, definitely. They said, do I have permission to go and prove that wrong? And the parents are like, okay.

Lily:

Not thinking it won't happen. They go over to this child. They're like, oh, like, I've got a puppy. Do you wanna come see my puppy? And every single child went Really?

Lily:

Yeah. Yeah. So the parents were watching it, like, mortified.

Damien:

Oh, that's terrifying.

Lily:

You it is like that is how they lure kids in. Like, it's awful, but Alright.

Damien:

Okay. You're nine years old. No. You're Finny's age. You're more like what?

Damien:

Is he what? 13?

Lily:

13. Yeah. Maybe.

Damien:

You're wandering home. Right? It's a black van. And you're like, I don't think it's Finney that did this. One of the kids, he's like this.

Damien:

Oh, those black balloons? Would you do that?

Lily:

Or would you be like I mean, probably not.

Damien:

No. Probably not. If it was a puppy, but is that puppy? Yeah. And then I'm gone.

Damien:

Right? I'm in that van, but at least there's a puppy in there.

Lily:

Yeah.

Damien:

But if it's just black balloons, I'd be disappointed. Yeah. Alright? I wouldn't go for it in the first place.

Lily:

Okay. So that's your the first blunder is he's walking home by himself

Damien:

Yeah.

Lily:

And he gets lured in by a really horrible magician.

Damien:

Yeah. Right? And his sister's been like, oh, no. I keep seeing dead kids all the time.

Lily:

I know.

Damien:

Right? And he's like, and the dad's like, stop talking about it. I'll have a drink. Oh, the dude, the scene where he is whipping her. Oh my the father.

Damien:

Me too. It's horrific. That so she

Lily:

Her acting in the first one, no notes.

Damien:

Amazing.

Lily:

Really good.

Damien:

Her screaming and crying made me feel really uncomfortable

Lily:

uncomfortable. Right Same. Because it was so good.

Damien:

Yeah. And I wonder why because I when I saw it when my daughter showed me you know, we watched the film together, I forgot about that, but I think I may have purposely forgotten about it because there's, like, a clear scene of abuse Yeah. Which is interesting again to, like, I wanna get on my high horsey about this, but, like, testament to the fact that it's such a good film is that one of the most traumatic moments is not murder. It's not the grabber. Agreed.

Damien:

It's not yeah. It's just girl being beaten the crap off by her father. And the way that she screams afterwards, I'm like, what?

Lily:

But then that made me go back to Black Phone two. Yes. And I was thinking, I feel like after that happening to you, like your dad doing that to you

Damien:

Yeah.

Lily:

Doesn't matter how much he sorted his shit out, I just don't feel like you would have a relationship

Damien:

with him anymore. Don't think so either. I think that you would I don't know. I just how could you I I don't know. We don't know what's happened between one and two, so maybe he's we know he's become the better man

Lily:

Yeah. But still.

Damien:

In two. But, yeah, that's a relationship that's

Lily:

not Perfect.

Damien:

Yeah. Real bad. But then it reminds me because, again, I know we're gonna talk about two properly in a minute, but I remember you and I talked about this because when she has been beaten up by her dad in the first one and she's screaming and it's totally believable and then she hugs Finney and it's like, oh my god, that's so awful. How must Finney feel about all this? But in the second one, before the film turned and went a bit crap, she does that again.

Damien:

Do you remember where she's just, like, standing by the door going, I feel fucking crazy.

Lily:

Yeah. That's when she's in the cabin.

Damien:

Is it in the cabin or it's when she's by her front door, she just keeps dreaming?

Lily:

No. It's in the cabin.

Damien:

It is. Yeah. Alright. Okay. But that moment is great.

Damien:

Right?

Lily:

You said that when we first talked about it as well. You said that that was

Damien:

I think that's how you would act. Yeah. Because, like, so and so often in films, people are like, oh, no. I'm so scared that things happen. It's like and then it's just dropped.

Damien:

Yeah. Whereas emotion in both one and two is like is crazy good. Yeah. Made me feel uncomfortable. Like, she is good at screaming.

Damien:

She's feeling being traumatized.

Lily:

Better when she was younger though.

Damien:

Maybe. I think she was fed shit lines in the second

Lily:

I agree. I think it was the script did her dirty. But

Damien:

Okay. Okay.

Lily:

Okay. My only other I think I had two, and again, one is a stretch. But when he's found he's in the basement.

Damien:

Yep.

Lily:

And he's found a window.

Damien:

Yep.

Lily:

And I know this is probably coming from me because I'm like, everyone can lift themselves. Like, why is he not lifting himself?

Damien:

Hang on. Why can't he do like five full body plots?

Lily:

Pussy. But he's running and jumping and only grabbing with one arm

Damien:

Yep.

Lily:

Yep. Over and over again. I'm like, grab with both arms. Like, not that you're gonna get anywhere, but still try and grab with both arms.

Damien:

Right. Isometric lifting is like a thing. I have a pull up bar outside there. You may have noticed that I've Yeah. I have many leather bound books.

Damien:

Rich Morgany, guess the film. And I have tried jumping and putting myself at one arm. And all that happened to me, Lily, was tendonitis.

Lily:

And a sprained lats muscle.

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. Kind of a weird I don't think I have lats, but yeah. Something happened. So no.

Lily:

Yeah. That's what I was I was like, why are you only pulling with one arm? And again, I was watching it with my sister and she went, I'm pretty sure we said that the first time we watched it as well.

Damien:

Right.

Lily:

So it's just one of those really irksome decisions.

Damien:

It makes you wonder like, I know that and this happens a lot in horror films and TV shows, but in horror films specifically because the the present danger is so clear that you think you wouldn't make those kind of directorial errors. Like, you'd be like, that kid wouldn't jump with one arm. He would go with two because that's the sensible that's the way you're gonna no one's doing that. So, like, why do they make these choices to the director say in the moment, like, okay, you're gonna jump at it with, like, one arm and just keep grabbing for it and whatever? Or do they just not think about it?

Damien:

Like, the fact that actually, Nana doesn't look right. Like, actually, you go with both. But I think there's so many things. And one of them so on to my next one is that a blunder for me is he escapes. And we're like, oh my god.

Damien:

He's escaped. Where's this film going now? That's amazing.

Lily:

I know.

Damien:

But he runs oh, my okay. Turns out that if you'd run directly the opposite opposite house, you probably wouldn't have got an answer from the front door because we later on find out Yes. That That's true. The house opposite may not be manned. Yes.

Damien:

But still, don't run through dark gardens. If and and I know he's screaming and then lights come on, but I would be running to a house and I would smash a window. Yeah. I would ram the door with my head. I would be, like, losing my fit.

Damien:

Yeah. And if I hear a van starting behind me, I mean, I am not I I am zigzagging. Yeah. I am going up onto, like, a doorstep. I'm gonna make it very clear to anybody that I'm about to get murdered.

Damien:

Yeah. Right? And dragged back into a hellhole. You you've got nothing to lose at this point. Yeah.

Damien:

Getting captured is not Agreed. Not a question. So Finney runs through some dark gardens, right, and doesn't really place any obstacles between the van and himself. No. Right?

Damien:

At least because the the van kind of pulls up and then bumps into him. Right? Mhmm. And I'm like, yeah. Just use another car.

Damien:

Just get in the way. Yeah. But again, it wouldn't make the film, but

Lily:

it Isn't it? It'd be finished.

Damien:

Yeah. It'd be like, oh, he escaped. Yeah. And then

Lily:

Happy ending.

Damien:

Credits roll. Or sister turns up on a bike, Vinnie, you've escaped. And then the grabber's like, yeah, I got you now. But then it wouldn't be as good, obviously.

Lily:

Okay. So I don't know whether this one happens before that escape or after that escape. But and this is definitely only a blunder because I'm now an adult and I think about these things. But when he's flushing the dirt, all I'm thinking is the grabber would hear that toilet flushing, like, 10 times a minute and be like, what's this kid up to?

Damien:

Oh, his brother. He's also upstairs.

Lily:

It would go. You'd hear the pipes.

Damien:

So right. Yeah. You're right because unless you had rigged the house, it had an entirely different plumbing system, which he's never mentioned.

Lily:

No. You're flushing But he the toilet doesn't mention the plumbing.

Damien:

No. You're right. And he's like I say, he's flushing that toilet a lot. So yeah, you'd think like, who's flushing? Where is that toilet?

Damien:

Yeah. If you're his brother, Max, you're like, there's toilet in my

Lily:

and it's pretty He's also in Sinister.

Damien:

Is he?

Lily:

He's the police officer in Sinister. Oh.

Damien:

Yeah. Okay. Okay. But his, I mean, his role in Black Phone one is kind of comedic. Like, that's now now you pointed out the irony because he's like, the cops are coming and he's like, oh, yeah.

Damien:

Look.

Lily:

So They have to live in the area.

Damien:

Yeah. It's just yeah. And I've got all the you know, and and if you need help and not between jobs, so, you know, I've got the time and all this stuff. And then, you know, he's got

Lily:

lines of coke racked up.

Damien:

Yeah. He has got that too. He's like, stupid Mac. Stupid. But I've I actually like the policeman, cool a cool cop is one that's like, dude, you might wanna clear that stuff up.

Damien:

Yeah. Literally. But all that, and he doesn't hear a toilet flush from a place where there shouldn't be a toilet.

Lily:

Exactly.

Damien:

Right. A very good point well made. Thank you. Man, that's quite I feel like that's a deep cut.

Lily:

You're gonna try and say that every time. Yes. I mean, you do it with the emphasis on cut, doesn't it? Cut.

Damien:

Yeah. Okay. Cut. Alright. Okay.

Lily:

I don't think I have any more from the first Black Phone.

Damien:

Don't have lots of blunders. There's just so many, like, enjoyable bits I agree. Of the film. I love the, like, really aggressive Metler in the when he's playing pinball. And he's proper, like, he's really useful.

Lily:

You mean Metler as in like he listens

Damien:

to Metler. Okay. Metler head.

Lily:

At first, was like, what does that mean?

Damien:

Back in the day, we used to call them Metlers.

Lily:

Long time ago then.

Damien:

My brother was one. I was a goth and he was a metaller and

Lily:

My sister was an emo.

Damien:

So Really? Yes. I had a tangent, but it hates a podcast. We can say what we like, can't we? I was in Canterbury.

Damien:

Can't remember why I was in Canterbury.

Lily:

Great story.

Damien:

Okay. It's a Canterbury tale, Lily.

Lily:

Oh, god. Yeah. But I'm

Damien:

walking down and so in my day, it was, you know, with goths or whatever or alternative. And then I'm aware of, like, the emo thing. And the nicest thing happened, right, because and this is, one of those documented things that most people who, like, dress alternatively or have, like, alternative kind of, like, fashion or lifestyle, generally are pretty good people, generally, Maybe you haven't had experience. I have. All the punks were great fun.

Damien:

All the goss were great fun. Slightly miserable, but great fun nonetheless. Right?

Lily:

Angsty, some might say.

Damien:

So angsty. I was an acting teenager. Right? Anyway, so now as an older man with children, I'm walking down Canterbury High Street and I see a group of emos. So I walk up and I think I can't remember who's with me, but someone's like, I don't talk to him.

Damien:

But you know me, don't you, Lily?

Lily:

Oh, yes.

Damien:

So I've made a beeline for them because one of them's got really good haircut. Right? Really good. And and I always wanna point that out if I see them with a good haircut. So I wonder what it is.

Damien:

And I'm like, dude, cool. Mate, nice. Good job with the old barnet. And and then he's like, really nice. He's like, oh, okay.

Damien:

Know what? Yeah. I'll have a chat. Like, I think he's a bit nervous at first that some random dude was coming up and chatting to him, but, you know, because emo. Yeah.

Damien:

I imagine his emotions were running high at the point, but we had a really good chat. There is a button that does that before we'll find it. I'll put a thing on it. Anyway, this is but anyway, good guy, we had a whole conversation about the difference between, like, emo, goth, and everything else. Right?

Lily:

Mosher. Did you ever hear that as well? No. Mosher.

Damien:

Mosher as in mosh pit.

Lily:

Mosh pits, I guess.

Damien:

Right. Man, I was raised in mosh pits. Some people were born in the battlefield. I was born in a barking mosh pit.

Lily:

Can you get to the point of your story, please?

Damien:

The point of my story is this. It turns out that it doesn't matter, and this is this is a story for everybody and may help with world peace. Doesn't matter what you're called, what name you are given, what label you have, turns out that black eyeliner transcends all.

Lily:

Oh my god. Yeah. That's the end of the story. That's the moral of your story.

Damien:

I did have a point to it, but it's gone. Boston heath.

Lily:

Clearly. Good lord. Okay.

Damien:

Or maybe one of the film thing. I could cut it, but I feel like it's a story about eyeliner.

Lily:

She's what every great podcast needs. Yep. Okay. Sponsored by Maybelline, hopefully.

Damien:

Oh, Maybelline.

Lily:

Fuck it now. Right. And on that note, shall we move on? Yes. So we're going on to Black Phone two.

Damien:

Mhmm.

Lily:

Was it that you just wanted to talk about it generally and then we do the blunders?

Damien:

Yeah. Think so. Yeah. Why why why the hell not? There's a lot to talk about with this film because this is how it all started.

Damien:

Yeah. Can I show you the little screenshot now?

Lily:

Yes. Okay. Please.

Damien:

I've tucked it. I've hidden it down here. Look.

Lily:

Oh, wow.

Damien:

This is the OG conversation. And I wanna make sure that you remember this.

Lily:

I was going to. Don't worry. You told me I had to.

Damien:

Yeah. Do I need to leave it there for you or should I whip it away?

Lily:

You can leave it there.

Damien:

Okay. But you okay.

Lily:

You can put the tell you can

Damien:

Tell me when you need it. Tell when you need it. Okay.

Lily:

I think

Damien:

I can remember it. Well, let's let's try. Let's try to see what your powers of recall are. Okay. Black Phone two.

Lily:

So you've already given brief summary. At the beginning Mhmm. I say brief. Mhmm. Probably not actually that brief.

Damien:

It wasn't brief.

Lily:

So essentially, like I touched on a second ago, it didn't really feel like it was a sequel to the first one. They were two very different films in the sense, like I said. One was about an actual murderer. The threat was a real human being that you were scared of. Whereas the second one is very much the fear was sort of the ghost of him

Damien:

Mhmm.

Lily:

And her being a bit mental. Like, the dream sort of had escalated, hadn't they?

Damien:

Yep.

Lily:

And how much had they grown? What do you reckon? Like, she must have been about 15 in the second one.

Damien:

He's smoking weed and being quite a belligerent teenager. So I'm assuming he's like probably 17, 18 Yeah. Ish. Yeah. Okay.

Damien:

Maybe maybe a bit. I don't think he's hit 20 yet.

Lily:

No. Because he's still in school.

Damien:

Yeah. That yeah.

Lily:

Exactly. So he must be 17, 18. Yeah. But yeah. And it starts with, as you said, really good.

Lily:

It was like the creepy music and and cuts of, like, footage where there was blood in the snow and it was all quite graphic and it a very sinister vibes. It started and it sort of you had no idea what route this was gonna go based on what the first film was. Yep. And that sort of continued to many points. Was like, is this going?

Damien:

Do you remember, like, the sort of device that was used there where she was dreaming and then the kind of the the film quality would change. Like, it become more kind of like Like hazy. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's a cine camera kind of thing.

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. I thought I quite like that effect because it made everything just a little bit more like, okay, this is how obviously as a device we can see that she's dreaming or not dreaming, but the actual effect itself was quite

Lily:

Yeah. Spooky. Yeah. Although one of the first things you did mention in our voice notes was about the some of the vocab used.

Damien:

I had a little revelation about that. Yeah.

Lily:

But Choice.

Damien:

Oh, that. The eighties language. No. The eighties language was awful. No one talked like that.

Lily:

But she said choice twice. And I remember thinking, is that a thing?

Damien:

No. It's not. And the only reference I have to that I mean, maybe it's like an American thing, but I don't think so. I've known many Americans and they're all dead down there. I know.

Damien:

I know, Mary. But I've only heard that in a film once, and it's in Ferris Peter's Day Off.

Lily:

Was gonna say, well, or Back Future to was gonna be my guess.

Damien:

Did someone say in About the Future?

Lily:

No. But when you said I've only heard in one other film, my guess would have been Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

Damien:

Ferris so Matthew Broderick himself says, oh, it's so choice. But I think he's using it in quite, like he's being a bit of an ass about it in Yeah. In Chicago. And he's like, you should try this. But then yeah.

Damien:

Weird language. Weird.

Lily:

But because using they'd obviously tried to match the the time Yeah. In the sense using those words. But then as we recapped in the first one, she has quite a few one liners that are actually, like, quite obscene. Right? Yeah.

Lily:

I can't remember what it is, but

Damien:

she's like Dino dicks, one of them.

Lily:

Well, that's in the second one. But in the first one when she's younger Yeah. She's like, yeah. I did it, you fucking fart knobs. Or, like,

Damien:

something like that.

Lily:

And it's actually quite funny.

Damien:

When they're fighting outside school, yeah, like, the the kids are fighting and she's, like, full on, and she's got punch in the face and all sorts. She's a real fighter. But I love yeah. She has she's pulling out some great But

Lily:

it worked, and it matched the time, and it matched her age. Whereas we move into into the second film, and we start with sanctimonious twat, which always gets me because it's not spelled with an o. No. It's not. Like, if you're gonna use a British swear word, like Quat.

Lily:

You can really get some purchase with it though.

Damien:

Oh, you can.

Lily:

Yeah. With a lot of venom.

Damien:

It's like an elastic band, isn't it? You can pull it back a bit. Quat. Yeah. You can really

Lily:

Oh, wow.

Damien:

Do you like that?

Lily:

We've never heard that. Like is an interesting word. It's it's something. Like? You said, do you like that?

Lily:

And I said, like is an interesting word.

Damien:

What? For the noise I just made. Yeah. Oh, okay.

Lily:

It's it's a choice.

Damien:

I think if I was yelling it, if was shouting across the street at someone yeah. It's never good, is it? It's never good. But twat is like a What? You can't really say that with any Venom is, I think, is the point.

Lily:

Yeah. Exactly. So we start with that and it kinda gets a few laughs in the cinema because, you know, it's a bit bold. Yeah. And then she definitely says cunt after that.

Lily:

Yes. But I can't remember what the descriptor was.

Damien:

Oh, she's is she calling us, like, a monster? I can't remember. She could she's in the bone box or she's near it and she's shouting I mean, this is a watch it bat, but, like, she's, yeah, it's like the word what's the thing when you play the game when I say, like, cake?

Lily:

Oh, word association. Yeah.

Damien:

It's like that. It's like

Lily:

the thought. An adjective and an insult. Let's just pair them together.

Damien:

Monster cock.

Lily:

Jesus. That's a different film.

Damien:

I am thinking about my god. Right. Anyway. It is hot in the film, isn't it?

Lily:

It's sweltering. Probably all the talk of genitalia, really.

Damien:

Grabbing pink phones. Okay. But the revelation was that I had forgotten that in the first film, she does have those things Yeah. She But then whoever's written the script or whoever's, like, taking the next movie has gone, oh, we know the bits when in the first film when you say these funny things and it's like, yeah, but that's something that a nine year old might shout Yeah. But not something that a 13 or 15 year old would be No.

Lily:

Like festering ass wound

Damien:

It was great though, isn't

Lily:

it? To the killer.

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. Besides a murderer, you made a bloody good point. Mean, that's what

Lily:

I'm here for.

Damien:

Well, okay. So you're having a scrap outside of school. You use that kind of language. Right? You're talking to an undead child murderer and and and Mollestine.

Damien:

Yeah. Pedophile. And you don't use that language. I wouldn't be using that like

Lily:

Respect your elders.

Damien:

But it's like belittling language, isn't it? It's like, I I don't know. What would you shout? You've got this guy, he's supposed to be dead. You've got your words.

Lily:

I think I'd go classic. I think I'd go sick fuck.

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Damien:

Sick fuck. Yeah.

Lily:

Exactly. Not festering ass wound.

Damien:

No. You just gotta think about that unless it's on the tip of your tongue all the time. Right. So like, that's your go to but she's got so many of them.

Lily:

And then dino dick as well. Where the bloody hell did that come from?

Damien:

Dumb worlds, that's a compliment.

Lily:

That's it. He's like, yeah, I am.

Damien:

Exactly. I

Lily:

mean Yeah,

Damien:

I am. We do we do we do a little shout out to our to our friend, Dan. Oh, god. Because if someone said that to Dan, he'd like, cheers. Wouldn't he?

Damien:

What do you think? I think there are a of guys that'd be like, yeah, cheers.

Lily:

He'd probably go, rightly so, actually.

Damien:

Hang on. Right. Let's move along swiftly. So but she's got this language and it's like, yeah, why? And because it's preceded by her acting so well in the beginning of the movie, it seems really incongruous

Lily:

Yes.

Damien:

That now she's using this language

Lily:

Yes.

Damien:

As someone who's grown up, had to deal with, let's face it, a shitload of trauma. Yeah. Grabbers, dads who beat the crap out of you. Yes. Brothers who are terminally miserable for a good reason Yeah.

Damien:

That, you know, whatever. Yeah.

Lily:

Okay. So

Damien:

weird. Weird, dude.

Lily:

This film is kind of around the dreams and her mom sort of communicating to her or, like, her having the same dreams as her mom.

Damien:

Starts with the mom making a call from a phone box. Right?

Lily:

Yes. And they get led to this camp. Mhmm. But then the side note of that is they've come to this camp and that's where three other kids have been murdered Yep. Seemingly by the same man in the first film.

Lily:

Yep. So we've got, like, two plots kind of alongside each other because those three kids getting murdered have nothing to do with the mom. No. And vice versa.

Damien:

No. Seemingly not. Seemingly, I mean, she was at the camp because she was a the mother was a they call

Lily:

Camp counselor.

Damien:

Camp counselor. That's it. I never remember that. I think she was there at the time of the murders. Right?

Damien:

Isn't that a thing?

Lily:

Maybe.

Damien:

Because isn't she kind of instrumental in because she's also having dreams? Yeah. I think do know what? We need to watch it again.

Lily:

We probably do.

Damien:

But I think that was, like, inferred at least that that she was there at the time when these things were going on as a as a counselor.

Lily:

Yeah. Because that's why he ends up killing her, isn't it?

Damien:

Yes. Because she kind of knows. Yeah. Because she goes

Lily:

She was coming to, like, do something to, like, tell on him or

Damien:

That's right. She went to the house or something like that, and then he's like

Lily:

He then set up a suicide, didn't he?

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Which the big revelation, of course, is that Yes.

Lily:

She didn't actually kill herself.

Damien:

Yeah. It was the grabber. Yes. Or as we find out, Wild Bill. Why is he called Wild Bill?

Damien:

Because of the way he wears his utility belts at a jaunty angle. Which is a bit of information that was really weird Really we were weird. Given.

Lily:

It was to do with the ice skating, wasn't it? So they're

Damien:

Don't

Lily:

discussing how it's they realized there's a guy who was at the camp at the same time the murders are happening. And and they go, that's that's Wild Bill. And they say about the utility belt. And then another guy just pops up and says, you know, fantastic ice skater.

Damien:

Yeah.

Lily:

Which seems really irrelevant, but also quite accurate in the sense, like, you know, when, like, murders happen in real life and rather than focusing on, like, the victims, it's like promising swimmer murders family of three. Yes. And that is the title.

Damien:

And that's the title. And that's what you said that night, at Halloween when you went to see the film and we were sending these voice notes back and forwards. And you came out with that line. And I thought and I still laugh about it because why would that I mean, you've got a

Lily:

feeling ice skating mentioned in the first one. Like, it's such a it's like they were just setting up. Like, we're gonna have this big finale scene on ice. Yeah. And therefore, he needs to be good at ice skating.

Lily:

Otherwise, it'll be silly.

Damien:

So that's the line that you have to feed. So at a certain point, you're like, oh, we gotta get in the film that he's a good ice skater.

Lily:

Okay? Otherwise, it falls apart.

Damien:

It's so it's like, oh, he was lovely. He was so good at ballet or, a promising swimmer or, you know, whatever it may be. But you're giving this kind of accolade to someone who clearly, like, is not you don't say, like, things like that about about killers. You just don't. Right?

Damien:

It's not like, oh, I thought you what, though? Do they?

Lily:

Do they? Promising summer. This family

Damien:

of three. Yeah.

Lily:

Okay. Could be a thing.

Damien:

It could be, but it's like a weird headline. In the film, it sticks out like a sore thumb when they're in the that cabin and they're talking about, oh, why, Bill? Yeah. He was like, you know, he's a dodgy geezer and all this stuff. And then it's like, yeah, but, oh, what a wonderful ice skater he was.

Damien:

Truly talented. The first thing that goes through my head is like, so at some point,

Lily:

we're gonna be ice

Damien:

skating on ice skates. And then the next question in my head is, why? Because I don't know and again, tell me if you think I'm wrong, Lily. This is from the same team who produced Sinister and other scary films. Yeah.

Damien:

Right? And someone has gone, I'll tell you what's scary. Right? This guy on skate. Right.

Damien:

On skate. And then it's just so odd because I've never thought like, if I could think of my worst horror nightmare, like, Freddie's got his fingers. Right? I don't know. Textured chainsaw massacre, they got chainsaws and a leather face mask and this stuff.

Damien:

And, you know, you got, like, your proper horror archetypes, and the grab is quite a good one. Mask is

Lily:

just terrifying the way he swaps it from top to bottom as well. Exactly.

Damien:

He moves it around depending on kinda almost like what mood he's in. Right? Yeah. And and then it's like, no. I know what's scary.

Damien:

This is

Lily:

scarier than any mask. Right? But skates. A triple axle and he lands it perfectly. That's gonna give everyone a fright.

Damien:

And not I mean, and even, like, oh, dear. It's like, would he leave, like, slice marks in the ice?

Lily:

If he's a ghost.

Damien:

If he's a ghost, or is he a ghost, or is he corporeal? But then if he's corporeal, then, like, why can't people see him? Is he invisible but, like, real? And, oh my god, so many questions about the continuity of the film itself. He's literally launching I wish I remembered her name.

Damien:

I'm say Abby, but it's not Abby.

Lily:

It's not Abby.

Damien:

It's not. He's launching the sister around the kitchen, like, bang bang, and we discussed this too.

Lily:

Right? God. That just made me uncomfortable because everyone's just stood there like

Damien:

Yeah. This is like

Lily:

a tennis match. It is. Just watching where it goes.

Damien:

Dying. Dying. And it's almost and I know because we know people in the industry. Right? But I almost feel like, oh

Lily:

Is she getting beat up? Well, I think stunt.

Damien:

Think yeah. There's also, but the stunt team are like, oh, we've got quite a good budget for this film. Let's do this thing in the kitchen where we just launch her around for three minutes.

Lily:

But I don't find that scare I don't think I find that scary in other, like, you know, like exorcism films, demon possessions, that kind of thing. I never find the thrashing around scary. If anything, I just find it a bit, like,

Damien:

just awkward. I'll tell you what's scary. Right? So you to your point, like, take The Exorcist, Linda Blair, whatever, Bond, head spins around. You know, the famous scene, you're like, oh my god.

Damien:

That's right. Bat crawling down the stairs like a spider, Sadako crawling out of a well. These are scary moments.

Lily:

It's cracky. It's it's like the grudge when she's coming downstairs. It's like and it's like cracking.

Damien:

Oh, I mean, I could go on about Ring, but it's he's broken all her bones. She has to anyway, right. So but, like, this is kind of having people thrown across a room and banging off stuff over and over again is Marvel Cinematic Universe stuff. Right? Launch your superheroes across a room.

Damien:

Mhmm. Bounce them off a building. Punch them so hard they go for a bus.

Lily:

Mhmm.

Damien:

Whatever or into orbit. But in a horror that's a true horror, to me, it's like, no. It's the small, nasty stuff. Yeah. It's the cut that appears on someone that came from nowhere.

Damien:

Mhmm. Like in Nightmare on Elm Street. Mhmm. It's the gash that appears or it's the damage that's done that you can't stop, but it's not being tossed around a room. Well, as you say, everyone else looks on like a like a tennis match.

Lily:

And linked to that then is the presence of those the couple who are completely irrelevant.

Damien:

It's a Christian camp. We haven't pointed out it's a Christian camp. It's a Christian camp. Okay.

Lily:

Which is mentioned at the beginning for no apparent reason. It's not

Damien:

demonic, is it? No. It's not like his demonic presence.

Lily:

No. He's a real guy. I mean, he's a ghost, but still.

Damien:

He's been because he's come back from hell because he's remembered something important. Literally. Do you remember? Yeah.

Lily:

And then, genuinely, the only reason for their presence is to remind us that it's a Christian camp, really. Yeah. Exactly. Because I can't even remember their names.

Damien:

Let's call them Janet and Barbara. Yeah. Barbara. Barbara maybe. I think he's a Barbara.

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean

Lily:

The sanctimonious twat is that's directed at. But, like, why

Damien:

are they they don't even die. They do

Lily:

they not? No. No

Damien:

one dies. No one dies in this film.

Lily:

So it's a happy film. It is a

Damien:

happy film. You could call it happy. It feels like there was a lot of trauma involved.

Lily:

A lot of trauma.

Damien:

But they don't die. They're hanging around. They're just mean. Right? Yeah.

Damien:

Just mean.

Lily:

They literally serve no purpose. But, again, it it comes back to the script just being shit because in the cinema, the phone rings at the end and I literally turned to my sister and went, that's gonna be her mom. Yeah. I was like, and she's gonna say, I'm so proud of you, sweetie. Yeah.

Lily:

And then literally she picks up the phone and he goes, hey, sweetie. And me and my sister were dying because I was like, how are you that predictable? Like that's how bad the script is.

Damien:

How do I get rid of this curse?

Lily:

And mom, do I get rid of the curse? It's not a curse.

Damien:

What is it? If it's not a curse, Lily.

Lily:

It's a fucking gift.

Damien:

A gift.

Lily:

You're seeing dead people. All the time.

Damien:

And it's traumatizing you. There's been an accident. Do remember that film? We need to do that at some point then.

Lily:

What film is that?

Damien:

I'm thinking through my brains right now, Bruce Willis.

Lily:

Oh, The Sixth Sense. Thank you.

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. There's been an accident I see dead people. All the time. So yeah.

Damien:

Okay. Can I just go through, like, the trajectory of what could have been a great film?

Lily:

Yes. Please do.

Damien:

So starts off in my opinion really well.

Lily:

Five minutes.

Damien:

That's alright, ain't it? It's crazy. We're having fun or what? So much. So starts off promising, like, really good.

Damien:

Like, the camera was really good. Like, there's some continuity between the first and second. He Finney's still seeing the grabber. He's now smoking weed as, I I guess, a way of kinda like

Lily:

dealing mechanism.

Damien:

Right. Exactly that. And she, the sister, is still having these dreams, and they are getting kind of more and more difficult. She's seeing these dead boys that end up you know, they're they're at the camp. They're basically being put into barrels by the wild bills, he's known back then, and they've been dumped under the ice anyway.

Damien:

So there's the ice. But she is losing her mind. This is losing her mind, and she has to unravel this mystery because she's also got a phone call from someone very mysterious, as it turns out, from the past being her mother who's given her, like, a series of numbers. I can't remember what the numbers relate to.

Lily:

No. It was the kids scraping the numbers into the ice.

Damien:

That's right.

Lily:

And it was spelling. Yeah.

Damien:

Was spelling numbers.

Lily:

Maybe it wasn't numbers. It was they were spelling his name.

Damien:

Yeah. Something yeah. There were

Lily:

numbers for something. Don't know what it was like.

Damien:

We'll have to someone, if you listen to this, just text us and tell us we got it all wrong because it's been a while since we've seen the second one, and we watched the first one again in a week. But the gist of it is that it's all really, really, really good, and it's kinda like it's quite tense, and you're thinking like, okay. The bit that always gets me in films like this is where you know that the killer's dead in the first one. Finney's strangled him, done him a good old job in the in the basement. He's a dead he's a dead

Lily:

I love that scene to be fair. So good.

Damien:

When he pulls back. Yeah. It's like, do we do Brazilian jiu jitsu? Yes. We do.

Damien:

So a real naked choke is not unknown to us. No. But he does it with a telephone wire Yeah. Which is nice because it's called the Black Phone and it kind of uses the phone.

Lily:

The satisfaction as well.

Damien:

Good. Could use a brick. I'd use a brick or the toilet system or many other actual weapons. Here's a blunder in the first one, just quickly. The grabber gives him a glass bottle in scene two.

Lily:

That's true.

Damien:

I'll be smashing that ball and stuffing it right in his carotid artery. There you go. Ouch. Anyway Would

Lily:

you have known to do that at thirteen? Yes.

Damien:

I was born in the seventies, Lily. Basically, we were born fighting.

Lily:

Okay.

Damien:

We weren't. But okay. So good, good, good, good, good film. I am now concerned, how are they gonna bring back the dead grabber? What's that gonna look like?

Damien:

Because that's gonna make or break the film. And I'm thinking so far, they're doing quite a good job of just making it like the history of the grabber is good. Like, we're getting some good lore on what's going on and, you know, I'm all up for it. And then it continues to the point where they get into the car and they head to the Christian summer camp, although it's the winter. There's lots and lots of snow, and there's a beautiful scene where they're driving through the snow, and it's kind of they look onto a snowbank, and there's lots of warnings about, like, you know, you shouldn't be driving because there's too much snow and they're in Colorado.

Damien:

Right?

Lily:

Mhmm.

Damien:

Just like The Overlooking The Shining, and they're they're driving through this this stuff. There's red lights of police cars and ambulances and whatever. Something clearly has happened on the side of the road, and this great shot is they look out the car window and there's a flurry, and they keep driving. And I'm thinking this is a really good atmospheric moment in the film. And then from the moment they get to the summer camp and you find out more about Wild Bill and his utility belt and his skating Mhmm.

Damien:

And and all this stuff and Barbara and everyone else, it then turns into a ridiculous monster movie.

Lily:

I agree.

Damien:

Right? Yeah. It just becomes and the way I relate it and you've seen Jeepers Creepers? Yeah. Right?

Damien:

So this is, I think, said to you that that night. Again, we were chatting about it. Jeepers Creepers starts off really well. It gets Justin Long. Really good film.

Lily:

Yes. Yeah.

Damien:

And it ends up with the main monster doing backflips over his car. I I mean

Lily:

I mean, that would be me if I was a monster.

Damien:

Yeah. I if you if I was a horror in a horror film and you were the monster I think I've had that dream. Right? If If I it was was a horror film and you were the monster, if you started putting shit like that, I would do a Stephen King's it, and I would look at you and I say, I'm not afraid of you. And then you'd go, poof.

Damien:

Right? Because no monster that's scary does black flips over cars. Why would you? Why would you exert that energy?

Lily:

Just to flex, really. You can't do a back flip. So You're not

Damien:

a monster in that case. You're an idiot. Because

Lily:

They're not mutually exclusive. You can be an idiotic monster.

Damien:

Oh, okay. Exhibit a. Anyway, it somehow it turns from something that is very promising.

Lily:

I agree. Yeah. When it first started, I was thinking, oh, this is gonna be gross. And then nobody dies, which I feel is I'm not not like I'm No. I'm to see that, but in a horror film, it's kind of what you expect.

Lily:

Even the guy who falls in the frozen lake and is laying half in, out for about an hour, and he still doesn't die of hypothermia.

Damien:

You know that made me angry. And then his daughter who is called, oh my gosh, Mustang. Right?

Lily:

Yes.

Damien:

Right? She's pretty cool character, but her dad has fallen or whatever. It's not a dad. I don't know what maybe he is. Can't remember.

Damien:

But he's fallen into a hole in the ice at night. Right? Now I've watched documentaries about hypothermia and exposure. Really, there's a finite amount of time you're gonna be lying in that. Yeah.

Damien:

Or getting and you you're not and and then the next day, she's gone to Barbara and what's his name's house, and she's like, you need to come and help us look at for these dead boys under the ice. Oh, do we have to? Yeah. You do. Get your get your boots on and your and your cardi and come out and because my dad fell down the ass.

Damien:

I was like, oh, is he alright? Yeah. He's fine. I know. I'm like, no.

Damien:

He he's not fine. He needs to be stuffed up in a blanket by a fire or something, having the frostbite rubbed from his fingers very, very carefully, or he needs to have it airlifted out

Lily:

of To there a hospital.

Damien:

To a hospital where he may survive if he's lucky, but he will be in ICU. Yeah. And that's what they call in America, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Damien:

And we call it casualty over here, do we? Or actually the most A and E. Casualty. Casualty. That's a

Lily:

No. We don't call it that.

Damien:

I don't know. I've not

Lily:

been there. Never call it that.

Damien:

I have been there once actually, and it is

Lily:

Me too.

Damien:

Yeah. Okay. Right. Nice.

Lily:

Okay. So I feel like Yeah. We've summarized key differences Yeah. In the films there Yeah. Which I think leads us nicely onto if we were characters.

Damien:

Oh, no. Hang on. We haven't done blunders.

Lily:

Have we not?

Damien:

We have talked about many blunders, I think.

Lily:

Yeah. Okay. Is there a couple that are standing out that you feel we haven't discussed?

Damien:

I don't know. Okay. Black Phone two blunders. There are there are quite a few blunders, but I think that most of the blunders appear to be Just

Lily:

in the film being bad

Damien:

Yes.

Lily:

Rather than stupid decisions.

Damien:

Exactly. There's not a lot of stupid decisions other than the ones that I think have been made for the characters by the team who made

Lily:

the Like the guy not dying of hypothermia is Yeah.

Damien:

Like, the the whole ice kind of a resolution at the end, like, so many things happened in that scene where you weren't sure, oh, can they see? They can't see, but he can see. Yeah. Okay. But Will's doing this, now he's skating past people because he's a good skater.

Lily:

He's a athlete.

Damien:

It's lucky that we found out about that in, like, scene five or whatever. Who knew? And then all this is going on and all the way through that, I'm thinking there are so many better ways to end this film. Even him getting his head stoved in at the end by Finney and plunged through the ice, this to me is one of these things where I'm like, if I kill this guy for the second time Yeah. He's undead.

Damien:

He's back. He's doing his thing. I kill him. I don't wanna see him go through the ice. I want to drag him over to a tree, find a way of tying him to a tree, making sure that I do not take my eyes off him because this guy's got form.

Damien:

He's come back before. Right?

Lily:

Yeah. He's, you

Damien:

know, so dangerous. So, like, oh, he's gone to the bottom of the ice lake and he's frozen really quickly.

Lily:

Black Phone 3.

Damien:

Black Phone 3. Escaped from ice. Oh my god. Now, because quickly before we move on, I know you want to. Right.

Damien:

He comes back and he finally tells I don't know if he tells Finnie or he tells the sister why he's come back.

Lily:

Yes. And does her a a kindness.

Damien:

Oh, there's the whole kindness thing.

Lily:

She's like, I'm going to show you that it was actually me who killed your mother.

Damien:

Yeah. Exactly. Oh, yeah. All that time you think it was a suicide. Of course not.

Damien:

Twas me. I hung over in that garage.

Lily:

Twas I.

Damien:

Twas I. That's right. And then he's, yes, I've you I've done you a kindness there. Have you though? Yeah.

Damien:

Because okay. Now I know you murdered my mom. Yeah. My dad would anyway, he blamed himself. You're in that yeah.

Damien:

A kindness is done. But it's the the the moment when he says because she's like, why are you back? Why are you so eggy? What's wrong with you? He's like this, and then he goes, because you made me murder my brother.

Lily:

Oh, Did

Damien:

you though? Did he? No. You locked kids in a cellar and did bad things to them.

Lily:

And he found them. So then you shook an axe to his head. Honk.

Damien:

What is you you did that. Your fault. So that's the whole reason he's coming out from hell. You know, you get these light scenarios where it's like, oh, he was so bad. They kicked him out of hell.

Damien:

Sort of. Yeah. I'm like, he's not that bad. He's really well Well, he's bad. He's bad.

Damien:

I would have kept him there as an example to proper killers.

Lily:

Yes. Yeah.

Damien:

You're not doing a good job, mate. If your only reason for going back is revenge for the brother that you killed, it's not really revenge, Divest. It's like you stay here and do your time, mate. Yeah. You know?

Damien:

Yeah. I found that a little bit silly, Lily.

Lily:

And the other thing that I think was really pointless was the love interest element of it between her and that kid. What kid? Oh. The one who just comes along for the ride, and there's, like, a whole scene of them because she's not supposed to be staying in the boys' cabins. Well, that do does, but they have this whole, like, moment, and then turns out the brother is awake and listening.

Lily:

I just felt like the love interest element added absolutely fuck all.

Damien:

It was just like Barbara and her husband. You're absolutely right. I I had forgotten that character entirely.

Lily:

So who had I until just now when we were talking about irrelevant stuff. And I was like, that's also again, not a stupid decision from the the characters Yeah. But just stupid script writing.

Damien:

A stupid plot point. Like and it's kind of like he's almost there to say to her, oh, you know you have all those difficult dreams and stuff and everyone thinks you're mental and weird.

Lily:

But I love you anyway,

Damien:

you Exactly. Crazy For all your weird dead people thoughts, I think you're alright. And that's about it. I suppose at some point you're thinking like, oh, we might die. In fact, there were so many characters in there that should have died died.

Damien:

Yeah. To give us a reason to be like, oh, no. Like, oh, that guy's dead now. But no. You have someone fall through the ice.

Damien:

He doesn't die. You have that kid. He doesn't die. You have Barbara and her husband who should die. Right?

Damien:

And then the dad turns up, and my my feeling was because the dad turns up his knee and he's like To protect the rescue We're going home. We're going home. No, we're not. We're dealing with the killer. No, we're going home.

Damien:

And there was stuff. And then I'm thinking, oh, he's turned up, he's gonna die. And that'll be the resolution of like, he

Lily:

has Right. Sacrificed

Damien:

Exactly. And this makes sense to me. He turns up, the grabber is behind him and he, I don't know, sits his throat wherever it is he needs to do. And now the daughter has real rage. And now we're like, well, the dad did some really bad stuff to his kids Yeah.

Damien:

When he was young. He deserves it. He does this is him now sacrificing his very life for his daughter and his children, and and that is a righteous way to go. Right? Yeah.

Damien:

But no, not even he dies, he just drives home, snow capped. Naturally. No one dies in a horror film apart from the three kids who died, what, six

Lily:

He got murdered, yeah.

Damien:

Twenty, thirty years earlier or whatever I it mean, they're already gone, really. Yeah. Sad. But it's done, ain't it?

Lily:

Oh, well.

Damien:

Yeah. They're in barrels.

Lily:

Oh, yeah.

Damien:

And like you say, and there's one little kid that was burnt, and he when he touched stuff, it went and that was quite good. Yeah. And then there's another kid

Lily:

It was sliced, wasn't it?

Damien:

That's right.

Lily:

It's the top of his face.

Damien:

Oh, then that was the one that was a bit rubbish, wasn't it?

Lily:

The only bit I can this film wasn't scary. There was one bit that made me jump, which is when she looks under the bed, and that was a bit horrible.

Damien:

Oh, now that's always a classic, isn't it?

Lily:

Yeah. Have you seen I was I was expecting it, it still made me jump because it was a bit horrible.

Damien:

Yeah. Because I I went to go and see film did I see the other night? Keeper. Keeper. Talk about that maybe.

Damien:

I don't know if it's podcast worthy. Okay. But it's alright. But it's that same thing of like the under the bed thing, the not being able to look at the screen because you know what's coming.

Lily:

That's coming.

Damien:

Yeah. I mean, I still watch Jaws and I know their head's gonna come rolling out at the bottom of the boat but it's still like that. Mhmm. Like, I can't look at it. But I love that.

Damien:

And then you've seen Poltergeist, the original one? Yeah. Right? The clown under the bed? Yeah.

Damien:

It's horrible. Mate, that is Yeah. So what a wonderful horror trope. Yes. And well done.

Damien:

And it worked. Yeah. It does work.

Lily:

For all the things that didn't, we'll give we'll give it in that.

Damien:

Yeah. We'll give them that. Okay. We've discussed these films, I think, at length.

Lily:

I think we've done well. I think we've covered all the topics that we covered before I

Damien:

think so.

Lily:

In our voice notes.

Damien:

We had so many of them that feel like we want to do them all justice, but we won't because we can't go back and relive that wonderful Halloween moment. There's one voice note where you're like, oh, no. It's actually, I think you've written it in a text saying like, what a wonderful conversation for Halloween.

Lily:

I mean

Damien:

And it was.

Lily:

Yeah. That's why I went.

Damien:

Spawned this. Right?

Lily:

Quite literally. Yeah. Okay. Quite literally.

Damien:

Alright. Okay.

Lily:

Who's this? So, well, oh. This is our mascot. Yeah. Our first gift Yeah.

Lily:

For the podcast, isn't it?

Damien:

A gift for the podcast. Pennywise, but you wanna change Well, his

Lily:

it just seemed a bit obvious. I thought it could be a fun thing to give it a different name.

Damien:

Okay. Would you wanna name him, like, later and tell me?

Lily:

Maybe we can let other people choose.

Damien:

Okay. But they might not.

Lily:

They might not.

Damien:

Chances are we won't get anyone texting us.

Lily:

Yeah. Let you know one's gonna.

Damien:

Tell you what, we'll leave it open. Right? We'll give he'll be the clown with no name. Oh. Right?

Damien:

Until someone names him. Yeah. But it's not gonna have be someone we know.

Lily:

Okay.

Damien:

Okay? It's gotta be someone we don't know.

Lily:

A stranger.

Damien:

Stranger danger. Stranger danger clown namer. Right. Right. Moving on.

Damien:

Okay. Have we gone through this, haven't we? How how do the two films compare in 10?

Lily:

I think I think we've done Yeah.

Damien:

First one.

Lily:

This. Because we were saying the first one's scary.

Damien:

Yeah. Pacing's better in the first one. Performances are

Lily:

Also better than

Damien:

the first one.

Lily:

Yes. The fake crying is better than the first one as well.

Damien:

Yeah. True.

Lily:

True. Mythology.

Damien:

Mythology. I think that comes out to, the law. So the first one is great. You got a living man Yes. Who is a horrible monster man.

Damien:

The threat is real. Exactly. Second one, undead dude who's good at skating.

Lily:

Yes.

Damien:

But who wears his utility belt at jaunty ankle?

Lily:

Oh, gosh. Pure stupidity leads quite nicely into that, doesn't it?

Damien:

Pure stupidity. Yes.

Lily:

Yeah. Again Okay. Because of the script, not necessarily because of the character. Exactly. But okay.

Lily:

So

Damien:

It's our favorite bit, is it, Lily?

Lily:

Yeah. If we were characters, how would each of us die? Okay. And we're doing it for both each film, aren't we?

Damien:

Yes. We are.

Lily:

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Damien:

Okay. Let's go to think of caps.

Lily:

I went first last time. You can go first if you want, but if you haven't got one, then I don't mind because I have one.

Damien:

Okay. Look. I do have one for the first film.

Lily:

Okay. Go.

Damien:

Give me time to think one second while you're doing yours. First one is this. How do I die? Right? Very much in keeping with our last episode of the podcast where I fell through the bridge Mhmm.

Damien:

And died by crocodile because Indiana Jones is great. In this one, I have got into a fight outside the school. Right? Okay. I said something, let's say, right, who's the kid who does all the stuffing up?

Damien:

He's got the one with the long hair. He's actually quite a sweet kid. I've I've angered him somehow in maths. I've thrown a rubber at the back of his head. Bonk.

Damien:

Yeah. Like that. You're dead. I'm like that. No.

Damien:

I'm not because not me. I know jiu jitsu.

Lily:

Roundhouse kick.

Damien:

Roundhouse kick to the face with cake. So anyway, I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, fight.

Damien:

Fight. Fight. And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Fight.

Damien:

And then he just plain old punches me.

Lily:

KO.

Damien:

KO. I hit, you know, bump pavement back of the head. I'm down. Films not even started.

Lily:

Oh, it has. It's just literally, it's just started.

Damien:

Yeah. It's just started. And that's it. And then what happens is Finney's like, oh, that's sad. They have a school assembly, but no one liked me anyway.

Lily:

So Oh god. Then if That's a horror film in itself. This is so sad.

Damien:

I've made a little a small horror within a horror. Yeah. Yeah. Which is I'm good at that kind of thing. But, no, I I just basically die in a fight in the beginning of an unfortunate accident.

Damien:

Otherwise, the alternative is that I die at the hands of the grabber. No. Okay. Here's a better one. I I just get mowed down in front of the ground.

Damien:

You just

Lily:

know that you took my one. You can't have to do. I can't take mowed down. Mine was gonna be Fuck on. That I get hit by the van.

Lily:

And

Damien:

Yeah. Why are you distracted? What are you doing?

Lily:

So I had my option was, he actually has kidnapped me, but I'm so annoying. He lets me go and then runs me down with the van, which is kind of on brand, just to be honest. I can see that happening. I'd just be sassy in concert. He'd be like, bitch, just gonna run this so down, like

Damien:

What's with the balloons, Yeah. It's like you get the helium out of that and then talking about it.

Lily:

We're gonna go keep dying. I wouldn't be calling him dino dicky, but I'd be like, you know

Damien:

Yeah. Using worse language.

Lily:

Call that a cock. That's embarrassing. And he'd let me go.

Damien:

Yeah. Okay.

Lily:

I get My ego can't take it.

Damien:

I get it, but had a different vision, which is you just bought yourself a don of kebab. And you're

Lily:

like You're already do I really look like it's be a double cheeseburger at least. Oh, okay. A kebab.

Damien:

Okay. You bought a double cheeseburger. You've playing some video games. You've been

Lily:

God, I'm so cool.

Damien:

You're that. You've been chatting to some of the kids and like, it's so choice. And then you walked across the road, like, cock with a walk, you haven't looked left, and then bang. Bang. Yeah.

Damien:

That's it.

Lily:

He's speeding because he's just kidnapped someone else. Exactly. Yeah. That tracks.

Damien:

Although that would be a blunder because you want the police to pull you over for speeding and then look in the back of your

Lily:

head. Correct.

Damien:

Correct. Okay. Anyway.

Lily:

So Right. Neither of us survive. Good.

Damien:

Okay.

Lily:

Black Phone two, how do we die?

Damien:

Oh god. Right. Okay. I need to be what I thought was gonna be good isn't as good. Right?

Damien:

Dying in a fight is a bit ignominious, so I want to go in a good way in Black Phone two. Okay. Okay. It's gotta be on the ice, isn't it?

Lily:

Oh, mine is on the ice too.

Damien:

Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah. No. It's okay.

Damien:

It's on the ice. No. That's too obvious. That's too obvious. Okay.

Damien:

How do I die? How do I die? I You go first.

Lily:

Trip up on the ice, and he skates straight over my neck.

Damien:

Dude, you you're carotid.

Lily:

Mhmm.

Damien:

You just gotta travel straight through. Yep. Man, that's one of my fears.

Lily:

Someone has to die in the film. I'm gonna take him for the team.

Damien:

I have a general thing. It's not a phobia, but it's like a thing. I've never been ice skating.

Lily:

Could you skate again, sliced up?

Damien:

Yeah. Yeah. Do you have that?

Lily:

No. But I've seen Blood on the Rink before, so was a valid fear.

Damien:

See, that's the thing. Like, someone said to me, when I was a kid, they're like, oh, were you at, the I can't remember where it was. I think it was in Maidenhead. There's some ice thing going on and which is a town near where we lived in Tid, for those who don't know. And he was like, yeah.

Damien:

Someone dude got his finger chopped off because he put his right I think everyone's heard that.

Lily:

You fall over, you put your hand down, slice.

Damien:

So I've never been because of that. I've never been ice skating.

Lily:

I love ice skating, to be fair.

Damien:

Well well, you'll never see me on the eye, innit?

Lily:

But there's me. I'm trying to go backwards. I trip and off, here he comes.

Damien:

Over there. Yep. But then that may help them because they're like, look at that spray of blood off Lily. Mhmm. And like someone's just run her over.

Damien:

Yeah. It's the grabber.

Lily:

It's that or a car crash in the snowstorm. Yeah. Because I would be scared.

Damien:

Try try. Okay. Alright. Okay. Okay.

Damien:

I've gotta think of a decent way to die.

Lily:

You do.

Damien:

In the second one, here's what it is. I found it.

Lily:

Okay.

Damien:

Mustang's dad. A previous felon, now camp counselor, who knows the history of Wild Bill, has gone looking in a quite a stupid decision on his own at night on the ice. He's plotted out his little lights. He's dug his hole. He's fallen in.

Damien:

I am on the side, unknown to him. I don't know what am doing. I'm reading a I'm reading a manga. Right. Or or something.

Damien:

Right? And I witnessed this. I'm like, oh, no. That guy's fallen in. So I leg it over to help him and immediately fall in the same hole.

Damien:

He he's out and alright, but I'm trying to hold him to his trouser leg. He didn't know I'm there, though, because he's not sitting me.

Lily:

Oh, dear.

Damien:

And so I just freeze up and die. And I sink to the bottom. Oh, not in a barrel.

Lily:

I'm just You're just floating.

Damien:

Just eaten by fish. Oh. It's not a great one.

Lily:

That is still yeah. What is it with you and just, like, falling?

Damien:

I don't know. It's maybe another recurring dream that I have. I don't know. Falling.

Lily:

Maybe Barbara puts a curse on you. Oh, I know. She's You step into the church and burst into flames.

Damien:

That's what happens. Is my name is Damien. And in the omen, that is I don't burst into flames, but I do scream my head off.

Lily:

Same thing?

Damien:

Yeah. Well, k. Right.

Lily:

Okay.

Damien:

Stupidity index. Now you said that the lower the number is the Less. So Or the higher. Higher is more stupid. Right.

Damien:

Okay.

Lily:

But I don't know whether that does

Damien:

makes sense when you it. No. Because it makes sense when you know it.

Lily:

Yeah. Yeah. So we have to repeat it. So Yeah. Zero is not stupid at all.

Lily:

Yeah. 10 is the stupidest film you've ever seen. And you know what I was I did. I flipped it when I was thinking about the scores we gave it, whether that would match if we did it the opposite way. So we gave the last one a three.

Lily:

Yep. And I was like, if we swap that, would it be a seven out of 10 where it's not stupid? Yeah. And I felt I feel like I thought that it didn't match up. However, that's fine.

Damien:

Are we allowed to backtrack though?

Lily:

I reckon so. Oh, we're only on episode two. So if we're gonna backtrack, we need to do it now.

Damien:

We need to do it now. Early rather than later. Yeah. Rip the band aid off.

Lily:

So is zero more stupid? Yep. And 10 is not at all.

Damien:

10 is almost sensible? Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Lily:

And if you think about evil dead, seven out of 10 It's quite high.

Damien:

It's quite high.

Lily:

Yeah. They were not that sensible.

Damien:

No. Not at all. They shouldn't have gone out there in the first

Lily:

place, would I think, yeah, if we're looking at it that way, we do scale the other way around.

Damien:

Okay. So let it be known.

Lily:

So zero is the most stupid ever.

Damien:

Okay. Right.

Lily:

And 10 is so sensible.

Damien:

So sensible.

Lily:

10 out of 10, no notes.

Damien:

No notes. Okay. That's making more sense. Because if it's so sensible, you might not wanna go and see it because you're just gonna watch a very sensible film. Yes.

Damien:

Okay. Correct. No notes. No notes.

Lily:

Notes.

Damien:

Yeah. I'm Lily no notes. How

Lily:

do you know my nickname?

Damien:

Oh, okay. Right. So So number one.

Lily:

There really isn't many stupid decisions. I would go as far as to say an eight or a nine.

Damien:

Yeah.

Lily:

Personally.

Damien:

I think you're right, Lily. I too I'm gonna give it an eight.

Lily:

Okay.

Damien:

I think so.

Lily:

So maybe we go 8.5, meet in the middle. We allow point fives?

Damien:

Do you want it? Yeah. Let's do it.

Lily:

85. Oosh. Easy.

Damien:

85. Okay. Black Phone 2.

Lily:

Again. It's

Damien:

not the stupidest. It's not

Lily:

the decision making. It's the fucking script. It's just so bad. I don't

Damien:

think you should lie. You still have be so angry about it.

Lily:

I am. I am. It's just not okay. Okay.

Damien:

Give it a number. 6. 6? It's quite high still. I mean, that's my opinion.

Lily:

Well, we can always have an average. So if you think it's a four, we go for a five.

Damien:

I'm not very good at working things out like that. Think it's

Lily:

Well, I can try and help.

Damien:

Okay. You going where are going? You're going six? Five point five. Five point oh, you love your point five, isn't it?

Damien:

Okay. Right. So Noncommittal. I'm gonna go my natural instinct was to go for four, but there are films that are much more

Lily:

Much worse?

Damien:

Yeah. So I'm gonna go five. Okay. Yeah. You can have your 5.5.

Lily:

I'll have my five. We'll just go five then.

Damien:

Okay. What about the eight point five? That's I I know I won't sleep tonight. It's this is a round number. Then we have to go eight.

Damien:

Eight. Could go nine. I mean, it is a four or four is out. It's like, it's good. Should we are we peaking too soon?

Lily:

I think so. Why can't we have a point five?

Damien:

Oh, I don't know. Just makes me feel uncomfortable. Get itchy.

Lily:

Suck it up.

Damien:

Okay. Eight point five and five? Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.

Lily:

I think so.

Damien:

Yeah. I mean, like

Lily:

The difference of 3.5 is yeah.

Damien:

Yeah. It feels good enough, didn't it? Yeah. Feels good enough. Okay.

Lily:

Okay. I feel like this next sec section isn't even conversation really because it's so obvious.

Damien:

Which film wins? Definitely for Platform two. I love that film. I mean, I will watch it again. Definitely.

Lily:

I think I have to for comedy.

Damien:

To work out the name of his sister.

Lily:

The name and also watching it after having recapped Black Phone one. I I think I would have enjoyed it more if I'd done that. Yeah. So that's my error.

Damien:

Agree. That's why I did wanna watch it again this week, but I just ran out of time. I do think that it is an entertaining film Yeah. But not the kind of horror that I'd want if I always and I think this is the thing for me. If if one of my friends said to me, give me a good horror film, I would put the Black Phone in there somewhere along with Sinister, along with Ring, along with The Shining or whatever, but I would not put Black Phone two in that list.

Lily:

Agreed.

Damien:

Yeah. Unfortunate.

Lily:

Amazing. Okay.

Damien:

Okay. So that

Lily:

brings us to the end. Yeah. Doesn't

Damien:

it? We're wrapping up.

Lily:

Woo hoo. Do you wanna do that?

Damien:

Yeah. I can do. Please do. Okay. So so because we've been very busy doing this stuff.

Damien:

You can watch this. You can watch us. You don't have to, but you can watch us on YouTube, and you can watch us on Spotify, or you can listen to us wherever you damn well want, really. Right? We could list them all, couldn't we?

Damien:

But we don't need to. I think other people say wherever podcasts are available. Yeah. Let's say that, shall we? Yeah.

Damien:

Let's follow the herd. Okay. This bit's good. You've been mentioned it already, but you go to our website, which is a series of stupiddecisions.buzzsprout.com. Then you can support us by giving us money.

Lily:

My favorite kind of support.

Damien:

Well, I don't know what we'd use that money for, though. I feel like we would use it for buying coffee

Lily:

Snacks.

Damien:

Snacks and coffee so we can discuss the next thing that we're doing. Right?

Lily:

Maybe even a trip to the cinema to get our next film.

Damien:

You guys could pay for our cinema trips, which are

Lily:

getting even more expensive. There you go.

Damien:

I do like popcorn. So there's that. You can support us by going to website. There's a link and you can, like, I don't know, pop us £3, £5 dollars, whatever other money types are available. I'm not good at this.

Damien:

We noticed. Or you can you can do this bit. You can

Lily:

send us a text message.

Damien:

It's nice.

Lily:

Nothing rude as we've established.

Damien:

Yeah. You don't want any naughty pictures.

Lily:

Suggestions of films or ideas of how we might die. Anything.

Damien:

Anything. Really.

Lily:

Just give us give us topics to talk about.

Damien:

How might you pass on if you were in one of these horror films? Yeah. We we we would like to know because that would also inspire us and maybe we'd steal your ideas. Shit. This week this week we have been a little bit.

Damien:

We should pre think these things out a little bit.

Lily:

That's what I tried to do, to be fair. I think my ones this week were better than my one

Damien:

last week. They were better than my ones? Yeah. Yeah. This week, yours deaths were way better than my ones.

Damien:

Yeah.

Lily:

And next film, we haven't decided. Oh, you were gonna choose?

Damien:

I am gonna choose. I feel like it might be a zombie film because I really wanna have the zombie apocalypse chat. But I also feel like that could be a whole thing on its own because I love the zombie apocalypse chat. And there's something I wanna show you as well before we do it. Focus.

Damien:

Okay. Not now, but like, yeah, there's a thing I wanna show you.

Lily:

So what's the film?

Damien:

I don't know. Do I have to say now?

Lily:

I mean, no. But we are supposed to.

Damien:

Okay. Do you wanna go old school zombie or newer school zombie? We're talking Alphagox. I don't wanna do that one.

Lily:

I don't

Damien:

because then they were going to the whole Jimmy Savile thing and they're

Lily:

like Yeah. Yet.

Damien:

Not yet. Not yet. Have you got any favorite zombie films?

Lily:

Your time to pick because you had a go at me for overriding this week. So

Damien:

I too if I'll do, Lily. Cause I feel rather on the spot now. There's a lot of zombie films I love. Okay. So what I will do is I will pop it on Instagram at some point this week.

Damien:

So you shall learn at the same time as other people do.

Lily:

Exciting. I need notice though. A busy lady.

Damien:

Yeah. Know you are. Well, and I'm

Lily:

not. A busy lady?

Damien:

Maybe.

Lily:

Okay. That's a whole other topic to talk Well,

Damien:

it's a whole different podcast. Yeah. Right. Thank you.

Lily:

Thank you.

Damien:

Thank you for joining me on the

Lily:

On the bench.

Damien:

On the bench. On the what would you call it? Workout bench?

Lily:

No. I just call it a piano bench?

Damien:

No. It's it's legitimately. It's a weights bench.

Lily:

Oh, shit.

Damien:

Yeah. Look. There's my weights over there.

Lily:

How much I spend time in the gym.

Damien:

Lot of time in the gym.

Lily:

Who are you kidding? Myself. Always. Okay. Amazing.

Damien:

Thanks very much.

Lily:

Thanks very much. This

Damien:

I is did. I shouldn't have done that.

Lily:

Series of stupid decisions. I can't remember the tagline. The podcast where we celebrate every questionable, baffling, idiotic choice in horror cinema.

Damien:

Perfect. There are many.

Lily:

Beautiful.

Damien:

Tiddly poop. Catch you later.

Lily:

Why are you doing it like it's a phone message?

Damien:

I don't know that he's not talking.