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Ask A Kansan is a podcast where we're amplifying, connecting and uncovering stories across Kansas.
Every week, Gus and Sydney sit down with the people who actually make this state run — museum directors and ranchers, founders and historians, zookeepers and woodcarvers. From Kansas City to Kinsley, WaKeeney to Wichita, we go where the story is.
You'll leave each episode knowing something you didn't about the state we call home. It's not a history lecture and it's not a business show. It's a real conversation with a Kansan worth knowing.
New episodes weekly. askakansan.com
Ep69
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Stadium Renderings
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[00:00:00]
Gus Applequist: We're, we're sort of, the way we tape the show is that we do the interview first and then we come back and we do these- ...these little things. And, and Sydney was giving a tour to our guest today, and, and I looked and all of a sudden the, the new renderings for the air- f- the replacement Chief stadium came out.
Sydney Collins: Oh, no way.
Gus Applequist: And they're awesome.
Sydney Collins: Oh, dang it.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. So- All right. So we don't have them loaded up on the screen, but, I mean, obviously the, the stadium is very expensive and, you know, taxpayers are helping to fund it. But I was, I was hopeful that whatever they did, that it would be distinctive, and to me, that's distinctive.
That's
Sydney Collins: pretty distinctive.
Gus Applequist: It's a glass roof.
Sydney Collins: Oh, is that what that is?
Gus Applequist: That is a glass roof or some polycarbonate kind of thing.
But,
Sydney Collins: Something ...
Gus Applequist: like-
Sydney Collins: I wish
Gus Applequist: I could make this picture better ...it looks like an outdoor stadium, but it's an indoor stadium, and I have no idea how they're gonna cool it.
Sydney Collins: That thing?
Gus Applequist: Yeah, that thing. I'm-
Sydney Collins: It You know what [00:01:00] it looks like?
Gus Applequist: Uh-oh. What does it look like?
Sydney Collins: It looks like, um, like an old-school, like, police hat with the brim and, like, the flap. It
Gus Applequist: does look like that ...
Sydney Collins: doesn't it?
Gus Applequist: So we're gonna have to come out with our own line of Chiefs stadium hats now. Thank you, Sydney.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Well, that's, that's kinda... It kinda just reminds me of, like, the tip of the hat, kinda how, how it has the brim and then the-
Gus Applequist: Yeah. There you go ...
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Or, like, a captain's hat. I think that's what I'm trying to think of-
Like a captain's hat?
...of, like, a boat captain's hat- ...I think is what it reminds me of.
Gus Applequist: What if that's the new Chiefs thing, like the big cheese hats that they have up in Wisconsin, but it's, like, the Chiefs?... Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Chiefs captain.
Sure.
Gus Applequist: You know-
Sydney Collins: That's a stretch ...
Gus Applequist: Not all of my ideas can be good, Sydney.
[00:02:00]
Podcast Intro Education Month
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Gus Applequist: Welcome to Ask a Kansan.
A podcast where we're amplifying, connecting, uncovering, and educating Kansas.
Educating because this is August and it is our month on education in Kansas.
'Cause school's back, baby.
Yeah. And,
Sydney Collins: uh, so this is the third episode in that series. If you've missed the first two, go check those out.
Yeah. Those were great conversations. Today...
We have Hanna Mick on. And Hanna Mick is a elementary school counselor, but she also has a lot of other fun things, um, about her that, uh, we'll let her-
talk about.
Gus Applequist: So without any further ado, here's Hanna Mick.
Meet Hanna Mick
---
Gus Applequist: Hello. Welcome.
Sydney Collins: Hello. How's it going? Just come on over.
Gus Applequist: This is great. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Okay. Tell me the rules, the rules of the roost here.
Oh, don't worry.
Oh, it's fine. There's no rules. You sit down- Oh ... we adjust your mic, and it's fine.
No rules. Yeah.
There's no rules.
Well, this is not like school.
It's not, no. Not like school. Okay. So have you [00:03:00] adjusted however you feel comfortable?
I don't know. I- don't- you tell me-
Not in your face, but not, like, totally in your face. Yeah. There you go. It's on. Right there. There we go.
That looks great.
Beautiful.
Hanna Mick: Awesome. No touchy.
It's fine. Well, you can touch it a little.
I touched my hands.
I touch mine a lot.
And then be like, "Oh, wow." Yeah. We, we touched the mic quite a bit.
Do you touch it?
Sydney Collins: Oh, I touch- Okay ... I'm all over it.
Hanna Mick: We can touch it.
Probably- We can... makes Merlin and everyone else crazy.
Okay. Well, I saw you guys on a video. But I don't... I'm Hanna.
Sydney Collins: Oh, I'm Sydney.
Hanna Mick: Sydney, what's up?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, nice to meet you.
Hey, good to meet you guys.
Yeah, thanks for
Gus Applequist: being here today.
Nice to meet you. Yeah. No problem. Um, okay. So can you introduce yourself for our audience?
Hanna Mick: Yeah. So my name is Hanna Mick, and I'm an elementary school counselor in Topeka. And I also work for KSDE part-time as a counselor leader consultant. So we help counselors across the state if they run into a bind or if they need something or if they need, uh, professional development or anything. They can literally call us and have us help them. It's pretty cool.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Right. So, uh, so Kansas Department of Education, right? K-S-D-E?
Hanna Mick: Yep. [00:04:00] Okay.
Sydney Collins: Just wanna make sure.
Hanna Mick: That's the one and only. The one and only.
Sydney Collins: Just wanna make sure. Yeah. You've done a lot of really cool things and I don't even know where to start. Hm. So we're just gonna start from the beginning.
Kansas Roots And K State
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Sydney Collins: where... Are you from Kansas? Are you originally from Kansas?
Hanna Mick: I am. I am from Harrington, Kansas-
Sydney Collins: Oh,
Hanna Mick: okay
originally. So this, being in Salina-
It's like back
Sydney Collins: home ...
Hanna Mick: this is the big city.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Hanna Mick: I mean, this is where we would have to go to the mall. Mm-hmm. Well, we could go to Junction, but like- ...this was, this or Manhattan-
was- When you went to town
... the big city. Yeah. When you were going to the mall, when you were... This is where we would come, so. Nice. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Well, brilliant. And then from Harrington, you went to school at K-State?
Yep. Nice. Go 'Cats.
Um- Go 'Cats ... Go 'Cats. Bachelor in advertising?
Hanna Mick: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: So what made you do that first? Swerved, Right? Yeah. I'm saying, I'm saying nothing. We're starting from the beginning, so I'm super curious.
Hanna Mick: Oh, I, love this. We're getting down to the nitty-gritty.
We
Sydney Collins: are.
Hanna Mick: Okay.
From Advertising To Counseling
---
Hanna Mick: So, I started out with a bachelor's in advertising. I also was doing art education, ended up dropping art ed and just did the advertising thing. Mm-hmm. And I started working [00:05:00] for a company in Manhattan, J&T Company. They are awesome. I love them, but it was one of those things where I was not, like, soul fulfilled at the end of the day.
Mm-hmm. My boss, Jeff, awesome. My team, awesome. People are like, "What's wrong with you?" Right? Like, you got a good gig. Yeah. You've got a great team. And, I did a little, like, Hanna soul-searching, figuring out what was it that I really wanted to do, and everything came back to working with kids. I had done, oh my gosh, all kinds of stuff working with kids growing up. I helped coach a swim team. I gave swim le- I was always at the pool, but then I would help tutor kids. My mom was a principal Okay ...and so I would tutor kids after school. Even in college, I would tutor. These were non-traditional students- ...but I would, uh, tutor students from other countries that were trying to get their, like, their high school diploma.
Oh, yeah. Wow.
And so it was all education-based, all student-focused, and I love that kind of work, and so I thought, "I guess, I guess this is it, you guys." Yeah. "I gotta switch it up." [00:06:00] So I did, and I've never looked back. It's been awesome.
Sydney Collins: Great. Wow.
So you've been in advertising for a little bit, what made you s- land on counseling of all the things?
Yeah.
Hanna Mick: That, so m- my, I was talking to my fr- my friend Mallory, who is a school counselor, and my mom, and they had come to Manhattan to see me, and I was, like, having this crisis moment of, "I don't know what I wanna do with my life."
We've all had that.
And Mallory literally said, "Why don't you be a counselor?
You'd be good at that." And my mom was like, "That was my favorite job." So my mom had been a teacher, a school counselor- ...a principal, a superintendent.
All the things.
She had done all ...of the things- and so that was always her favorite. Um, but not that, you know, I, I thought about being a teacher, but I kind of knew the role of the school counselor a little bit better because on the way to school, so we went to school in Chapman, so we'd drive from Harrington to Chapman every day, and my [00:07:00] mom was the counselor there, and she would practice the lessons on my brother- Oh. ...
Gus Applequist: and I in the car.
Double school.
Hanna Mick: Yeah. And so it's funny because my mom actually thought my brother would end up being a counselor because he was, like, really good at coming up with additional ideas or activities to do, and I'm in middle school, so I'm just, like, there for the ride, right? Yeah. But, um, I think that that, that was probably it.
You know, I thought that that was a good time in my life. It was fun. And, um, a big part of it, I love rooting for the underdog, right? And that's what school counselors do 'cause we're there for every student. It doesn't matter who you are, where you're from. We are here for you, and we're here to be your advocate, and that was something that, in all my work with kids...
You know, at the pool, it was always, you know, maybe a friend who needed a little extra help or, um, I remember one time helping a kiddo learn how to dive. They wanted to learn how to dive- ... so bad, but they didn't have money for swimming lessons. And so [00:08:00] when I would have my time inside, I would come out and help them learn how to dive in the pool, and the day we got it, oh, that was a good day. But that, that was kind of really, I think, it. I mean, I know teachers root for underdogs too- ...but I think that's really, like, the bread and butter of counseling. Yeah.
What School Counselors Do
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Gus Applequist: What, what is the role of a counselor? I think I know, but maybe it'd be good to- ...to have you explain it.
Hanna Mick: I actually love that you asked this because I think a lot of people-
Sydney Collins: No, they don't.
Hanna Mick: They don't know, right?
Sydney Collins: They just know, what is it, Emma from Glee, and that's about it.
Yeah. Joe. and, like, the counselors on TV are the worst.
They always have their own set of issues- Yes ... that you just can't get
Hanna Mick: over.
And you're just like, "No. Please don't." Yeah. So I love that you brought that up because a lot of people think of guidance counselor- and we're really making... We're, we're not called guidance counselors anymore, but people still call us that.
Mm. So we're making that shift from guidance counselor to school counselor. Guidance counselor- What you would quintessentially think [00:09:00] of when you think of a counselor. Sits behind a desk, pushes out some paperwork, maybe talks to some students. Very reactive- ...not proactive, and they probably don't run what we call a comprehensive school counseling program. Now the shift to school counselor, this is where things get great. Because we have three domains that we work in. We work with students academically, we work with them, um, with career planning, and we also do social emotional learning. And so you have to have all three of those pieces to have a comprehensive school counseling program. and then within that you're also doing three other things. You are meeting with kids individually to work on, I mean it could be anything, right? Mm-hmm. It could be, um, maybe their parents are going through a divorce. They need somebody to talk to. We got you covered. Mm-hmm. Maybe they've got a little anxiety and you're working on some coping skills.
We've got you covered. I mean all of those- ...thing, anything that you can think of that could be a problem for a student, we're there to help. And then, um, [00:10:00] we do that individually. We do it small group so if you have a cluster of friends that need help with, again, anxiety, anger management. we have a, we have a huge group at school that is called Banana Splits and we meet once a month for all of our students who have divorced or separated families.
Mm. So it might be a small group. Oh.
We do ...Yeah. We run bigger ones too.
Man, I wish- that- I know ... was
Sydney Collins: around when I
Hanna Mick: was a kid.
I know. We have all kinds of good stuff. And then, we also do classroom lessons. Mm-hmm. And so especially at the elementary. All levels should do lessons but it just sometimes the systems don't always support that when it gets to middle school and high school but so we have, classroom lessons that we do Character Strong at our school so it really just addresses character traits like honesty, respect, empathy, responsibility-
...leadership. I mean anything that you would want your kid to leave school knowing how to do, that's what counselors- ...are doing. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Awesome. Brilliant.
Hanna Mick: Those life skills.
Those life skills.
Yeah, think of it life, life skills. That's kinda what I like to think of it as. Or they sometimes call them durable skills [00:11:00] because-
...they're going to last you your lifetime,
Sydney Collins: so.
Oh, brilliant.
Hanna Mick: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: .
Junior Coaches Recess Program
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Sydney Collins: So speaking of the programs, tell me about Junior Coaches.
Hanna Mick: Oh, okay. So Junior Coaches is a fun little program that I, I cannot take credit for it.
I was I listen, I listen to a lot of podcasts. So when- ... ...people are like, "Let's do a podcast," sign me up. Yeah. 'Cause I listen to them. But I, I listen to, uh, Dr. Becky Bailey's podcast, Conscious Discipline. I love her stuff because it just makes sense. Mm-hmm. Mm. Um, but she had a lady on, and they were talking about recess problems, and I was like, "Yes." Yeah. "Yes, sign me up." Like, that's where so many problems happen. It's unstructured. We're watching them, but you know, things happen. So, we had a group of students that a lot of trouble was happening at recess. It was making recess kind of chaotic for everyone- ...the students, the staff out there, and we had tried all of the things. We had done restorative circles. We have [00:12:00] done individual, um, counseling. We have done discipline. We have done behavior. I mean, all the things that you can think of, and none of it is working. So driving to school, I hear this Junior Coaches idea, which was brilliant. They ... Basically what you do is you take students.
You can take both. You can take students who are struggling at recess and students who are killing the recess game, right? So you've got ones who are having a hard time and the ones who are gonna be more of like your peer models, and you can s- mush them together into a group, and you teach them conflict resolution skills.
So they go through a training program, which we developed at my school. We didn't take Bec- Dr. Becky Bailey's, 'cause I, she didn't have one, but I just- took the idea from her. So we train them for about two weeks, and then instead of them going ... They still went to recess with their peers. Right. But what they did was they learned how to solve issues and problems, and then these older kids, they're f- you know, sixth graders, they're going out [00:13:00] to recess with second graders.
Ah.
And they're helping... Yeah.
See, like the light bulb clicks on. Oh, that's brilliant. So they're helping second graders solve their problems, and then eventually it bleeds into- ...their own life. So initially it was like- I would, I had, of course, sixth grade recess duty, so I'm- ...I'm handling this anyways.
But, you know, I would hear them playing games, and they'd say, "Oh, guys, guys, we've, we've gotta solve this conflict peacefully." So initially... Yeah, right? Like, they're being little turkeys, but I'm like, "I don't care," 'cause they're talking about it, right? They're talking about it. Like, they're thinking about it.
And then, and then they actually solved it well. And so they're doing such a good job. I mean, they... It was crazy. Like, they did such a phenomenal job at working with the younger kids that we would be headed out to recess, and they would only go out to recess with the younger students once a week. Mm. And the second graders would say, "Are the junior coaches going out today?"
And I'd say, "Oh, no, they're not." "Oh, man, I have a problem." And I say, "I'm your counselor. I can help you." "No, we wanna talk to them." "Okay. Got it, [00:14:00] got it."
They're
Sydney Collins: so much cooler than you. Got... they
Hanna Mick: are. But I mean, I love that, one, that you could pause the problem- ...we could figure it out another day, but that they wanted to reach out to peers for help.
Mm-hmm. And I think that that's so cool. So that's when I think you know you've got something good going.
Sydney Collins: Well, and the, the thing that stood out to me the most is, some of the stats. So you had a couple... You said you had a couple of students that had some issues. One of them, the discipline referrals to the office decreased by s- like 71%.
Hanna Mick: Yeah, it was insane.
Sydney Collins: And another one by 77%.
Hanna Mick: Yeah. So they... I mean, it was... This was when we first started it out. We just kind of had a, a Guinea pig run- ...with it, and we, had a couple students that we were working with, and it wasn't a reward to do this, but you knew if you were doing this- you had to have good behavior- ...because you're now a role model for second graders who are legitimately looking up to you. They really, you know, wanna uh, wanna see what you're up to, and they wanna hang out with them, and it's so cute. But if you are [00:15:00] being a turkey at school, like you can't go out to recess with them.
Right? I can't, I can't have that happen. So knowing that there was like that little bit of like leadership, and, and role model-esque behavior- ...they really, they really toed the line. It was awesome.
Sydney Collins: Has this program filtered out to all the other, other in- o- little other elementary schools in your district?
Hanna Mick: Yeah, actually. So some have picked it up. I know, um, two others utilize it, and I... They kind of do their own w- ...they kind of asked us-
Their own version of it ...
yes. Yeah. Like, what is it? And then we'll create- ...what works for our school. Right. Which I think is great, you know. And I've given them, I have like my training manual I think on a, on my s- on my website, and I send it to anybody who wants it.
I mean, tweak it, make it towards, more geared towards your students. Right. I get that it's not a one-size-fits-all thing, but it's a good idea-
any way you spin it. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: That's crazy.
Counselor Of The Year Mindset
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Sydney Collins: And that's what... So this pro- program is what helped you get nominated for the, was it the state of [00:16:00] Kansas? Kansas School Counselor of the Year?
Hanna Mick: It could, I mean, it could have Maybe ... I don't know. I mean, there, there's lots
Sydney Collins: of-
They mention it in the, in your little bio, so.
Okay,
Hanna Mick: okay
Sydney Collins: But tell us how, how was that when that notification came around that you got that and you're like, what, what was your reaction?
Gus Applequist: Well, it's wild, right? Yeah. You're like, "I'm sorry, m- me?" Yeah. It's kind of one of those things. Like, you don't get into education to, like, win awards.
Hanna Mick: Win awards. That's not, like, That's- ... what we're- what we're in it for. yeah. Like, I just want to do things that get students bought in ...and help them to be successful and feel good about-
themselves, right? Like, that's what I want. And I love scheming up new ideas or having kids tell me ideas. Like, "Hey, can we try this?" And I'm usually, uh, I, I wasn't always this way. Actually, I worked, uh, in Lawrence and I had a first grade teacher who is one of the best teachers I've ever seen, Samantha Saltz, shout out to her.
Mm-hmm. But she was always a, "Yes, and..." So, [00:17:00] "Mrs. Saltz, can we do this?" "Yes, and what else could we do to make it better?" And I'm like, "How do you have time for this, Samantha?" And she said, "How do you not have time for that?" Yeah. I was like, "Oh, she's so right," right? So I, I try my best to keep that mindset when I'm working with kiddos to do, you know, "Yes, and what else could make this better?
And yes, how could we include more kids?" And so I don't know, we, so I'm always scheming. We're always coming up with crazy things that are beneficial, obviously, and help kiddos out. But we're always doing things at my school that are maybe a little bit different, and maybe that's what-
...you know, helped me out there.
But it was, it was awesome. It, it w- it's been a great, um, experience and definitely an honor to serve Kansas.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Hanna Mick: Yeah. Well, great.
[00:18:00]
Gus Applequist: do you ever apply lessons you've learned in working with children- when you work with adults?
Hanna Mick: Oh my gosh, yes. You're not that different. Or my, my poor husband, "Are you, are you- "Are you counseling me right now?"
"Are you doing the counseling thing right now?"
Maybe. Or I will also, it's so funny, I think sometimes people can just, like, smell the counselor on you. Oh, yeah. Like they know. And I remember when my husband and I s- first started dating, like, you know, a few months in, he said, "Can I ask you something?" And I said, "Sure."
He said, "I have never been with somebody that we go into, like, Walmart, and all these people tell you, like, their life stories and, like, details- that, like, I never wanted to hear." So I don't [00:19:00] know. I think it's just a, yes, we use this, and we're good listeners. They can see it on us. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We just, "Uh-huh, yeah, we got you." But I'm here for everybody, I guess.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Love it. Love it.
AI In Schools Basics
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Sydney Collins: I don't know how to segue into this next one, so we're just gonna blurt it out. Yeah. You, you Let's wing it ...mentioned- in your, pre-interview, AI integrations and in schools.
Hanna Mick: Yes.
Sydney Collins: Which is a huge thing. So, context, we talked a little bit about, cell phone use and electronic use and computers and tablets and things like that with, um, Cathy, who's on the
Gus Applequist: She's the chair of the-
Sydney Collins: Chair of the
Gus Applequist: Kansas-
Sydney Collins: Kansas
Gus Applequist: Department, or sorry, the Board of Education
Sydney Collins: the Board of Education. Yeah. So we've, we've hit on that topic a little bit, but we haven't talked about AI, and so I'm so glad that you are knowledgeable on this. So I guess where can we start in that conversation?
Oh my gosh. This is like, this is a hairball.
'Cause it's just like this big- It is ...giant cloud- ... and you have to kind of section it out.
Hanna Mick: I don't even know. It's sh- I don't even know what string of this like- [00:20:00] ...ball of yarn to grab onto first. Um, I think f- I guess first start with my two I's that I always talk about. What is your intention with it-
and what's the impact going to be? I think those are your two things you've gotta start with. Mm-hmm. So if you're using it as a professional, what's my intent here, and then what's the impact going to be? If you're using it, if you're letting students use it, same thing. What's my intention and what's the impact? I also wanna make sure that you're using it in a way that technology should be used. Like, don't just use AI for AI's sake, right? and then the other thing to think about too is the balance. I think tech in general, like just think about what is a good balance. I don't, I am not an all or nothing kind of person.
I don't think that that serves students. I don't think that that's going to ser- I, I'm thinking, again, back to my domains, career, right? I'm thinking as you get older, you're gonna need to know how to use [00:21:00] technology. You're going to need to know how to use AI, and use it well. But there's so, so many parts of this. Like I'm even thinking, um, I work at an elementary school. People are like, "How do you AI at an elementary school?" Yeah. And I, you know, part of it is some- you can talk about AI and never touch it.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Hanna Mick: Right? So you can have conversations with students about AI, and not... Or, or model.
Teaching AI Literacy And Cheating
---
Hanna Mick: So for example, I had a student, we were doing goal setting. It's January, we're talking about setting goals, and I don't remember the exact statistic, but I said, "Did you know, class, that by writing down a goal you're 40% more likely to do it?" Yeah. And I had a student say, "How do you know that?" And I loved it. I love when a kid challenges me. Mm-hmm. I love when they're critical because that's what they're gonna have to be moving forward from now into forever.
They're gonna have to be critical of every piece of information they get, every video they see, every image they see. And I love [00:22:00] that he was spicy with me. And I said, "Well, let, how would we find out if I'm right or wrong? Let's, how..." And they said, "Google." So I said, "Okay, let's get on-" The compu- and so I just pulled it up on a big screen and I said, "Let's Google it."
I said, you know, "What percentage are you more likely to achieve this goal?" Da, da, da. Type it in and then it pops up and it said m- whatever statistic I had told them was right. And they're like, "You were right." I was like, "Yay me." And I was like, "But wait a second." I was like, "Are we looking at the whole screen?"
And they're like, "Yeah, it says it right there." And I was like, "Mm, what does it say at the very top?" Mm. And one kid said, "AI overview." And I said, "Oh, so what does that mean?" And they said, "Well, that it's AI." And I said, "Can we trust AI?" Well, then we have kids, "Yes," and kids, "No." And it's like- ... "Well, what do we do here, guys?"
And so I said, " We can't trust everything that AI comes up with. It makes things up. But how would we find out if this was really true?" And this took them a minute to figure out. They're like, "Oh, uh, [00:23:00] it told us. I mean, I don't know." And finally, one, a, a girl in the class said, "I think we would need to, like, research that."
And I said, "I think you're right." So we took, I mean, this took five minutes of my class period. Wow. But we had a whole, I mean, that was a whole micro lesson on we can't always trust what it's saying. We're gonna look up where the statistic came from. We found the statistic. We found the university. We found-
that I was right, guys. But I, I think, you know, just things like that can help with AI literacy and they haven't touched a device. Mm-hmm. They haven't, they haven't done any AI on their own. But I also think it's not a bad thing to start thinking about how can they utilize it in a way that they know is safe and ethical. Um, I have many, many conversations with a middle school f- uh, teacher friend of mine. She's an English teacher. And she has said, "This sounds crazy, but I don't think that..." You know, cheating is always the big- oh, ...cheating she- I, I'm way in other [00:24:00] fields. Mm-hmm. But that's kind of the hot topic. And she says, you know, "The- I don't think they understand what cheating is."
And I said, "I don't." And I said, "I, I don't know. I mean, I don't" And she said- Let me spin this to you." And I said, "Okay." And she said, "I've asked them, 'What is cheating? What does it look like?'" And she said that, you know, the students really came up with, "When I take notes off of another person or when I cheat directly off of another human." So she's ha- Oh.
It's
like stealing their
AAK_Ep69_wide: information.
Gus Applequist: It's like stealing their information.
Hanna Mick: Yes.
Yes.
Yeah. So, like, the fact that this AI machine just plopped it out.
Yeah, no one claimed it.
I made, I made that up, I made that. Right? So having those convers- Yeah. Right? I mean, people just think I'm crazy now when I'm saying this, sharing this information that she's told me from real middle school students. But I, I'm like, "This is legit." Like, I think we really have to teach them what is cheating, what's not cheating, what's safe, what's not safe because we spend how much time teaching kids how to use a pencil? Years.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Hanna Mick: Right? Years and [00:25:00] years. How much time do we really drill down to teaching kids how to use a device and use it well? Mm-hmm. And I think that has to be a part of education. I mean, counselors do that. We do digital wellness. We do digital literacy, but it's, it's very different now. I mean, the digital literacy before was all, you know, protect your information. You got, really gotta protect your information now, but it's like just nos.
It's, "Don't get on that website. Don't say this." Mm-hmm. "Don't do that." Well, now it's way different. It's how do you think critically about everything you see- ...and do? So I think the role of the counselor, along with the librarian and, uh, the STEAM teacher- and the ...tech person, and I can go as far as to say the art teacher, right?
Yeah. Because think of all the AI art. I mean, it, it's going to have to be a collaborative approach that we all need to be just kind of working on together to help- ...help get these kids ready for the real world and how this all works.
Sydney Collins: I feel like another part of that, too, is the [00:26:00] ownership of it. Yes. So my stru- like, even here at work, if we use Chat or Claude or something- we say, "Hey, Chat and I," or, "Chat came up with." It's like- Yes ...making sure to understand of, like, we used AI, and this is how we used it.
Yep.
And then having the conversation, not I came up with that idea-
and it's solely mine. So what- And so that, that's the other p- I think the big pieces is understanding the ownership of it.
Hanna Mick: And the verbiage. Yeah. So I have really started to say that it generated it, because it didn't create it for you. Yeah. You did not create any... I mean, it was generated, and that, that's what I really try. Because I am super tight with my art teacher in my building, and I'm really tight with a counselor in Georgia who is, like, art and counseling together.
And so I'm trying to be really mindful of- ...creativity is like a human thing. Mm-hmm. Right? You're making, you're doing, you're... I mean, it's with your hands. It's the way you feel. This is just a vending [00:27:00] machine. It's just spitting something out for you, right? Mm-hmm. So I'm trying to be more cognizant of that with my own language, but also with students. So if we have something that was, I don't put created by, I put now generated- Generated by. But, like, I had a, a student that I worked with, earlier this school year, and we created a social story together, and it was great because the social story images were generated through AI. Mm-hmm. And so she could tell me, you know, "What, what do you want the main character of this social story to be?" "Oh, I want it to be this animal," or what. "Okay, great." Mm-hmm. And then we could replicate that over and over and over, and that created a lot of buy-in to then read the social story. But it was so cute, because afterwards, you know, we have this story that- ...she's reading. She's telling people, "Look at the story that we, that we made with," you know, ChatGPT-
or with, you know. And so I, even littles we're trying to help them understand- ...that, no, I mean, we came up with some ideas, but [00:28:00] really, this was generated through ChatGPT.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Hanna Mick: Or whatever we used, Claude, Gemini, you know.
Yeah. Yeah. All,
Sydney Collins: all
Hanna Mick: the things.
All the things,
Sydney Collins: all the things.
All of them.
Therapy Dogs Piper And Pickles
---
Sydney Collins: But you've been able to... So now I wanna talk about, well, obviously Pickles and Piper.
Gus Applequist: Um- Yeah, I was, I see on your notes it says- ... Yeah, he goes Piper- ...Pickles plus Piper pl- equals dogs equals dogs. Like, what does this mean, Sam?
Hanna Mick: Oh, well I do love Pickles.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. So obviously you have a therapy dog, uh, Piper, and then Pickles is your s- CFO or your, your-
Hanna Mick: She's my other dog.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, she's your-
I have two dogs
... other dogs. Yeah. Yeah. But y- they have fun names on your website.
Hanna Mick: Oh, yeah. I don't know. She's the chief fun officer.
Chief fun officer.
There you go.
She is my chief fun o- Pickle, that is so true about her.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Hanna Mick: Yeah. So Piper, she was our therapy dog at school. Mm-hmm. She has kind of retired now.
Good for her. So she ha- I know. She's living the doggy retirement life- I love it ... which, good for her. so she is rocking that, and Pickles is just my home dog. Yeah. You know? Um, but they have been super fun. They are both golden [00:29:00] doodles- ...because I feel like that's what- ...everyone has these days.
Yeah. But they're great dogs.
They are great dogs. Super smart. But Piper, when she was at school with us, oh my gosh, so much fun.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Hanna Mick: Like, in so many ways. you know, you think that they're there for the kids.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Hanna Mick: Oh, man. I would- But they work hard for the teachers. I would... Like, there, there is one teacher that would literally come after school and lay on my floor with the dog. Oh. After school and just chill. Mm. And, um, my lunch ladies, oh, did they have the treats for her- Oh, sure ... and the bat. So that was pretty cool.
Paws And Claws Project Learning
---
Hanna Mick: And then, we actually had s- you know, these crazy ideas ...that I get that I like to s- do. we had the, we had a group called Paws and Claws, and they were a whole project based learning group- that, um, initially were just making things for Piper. We had a student at school that was like, "I want to build her a dog house, [00:30:00] and a Halloween costume, and a mailbox-" "... and a dog bed." And he had all these ideas, and the teacher came to me and said, "Can we do this?" And you know, initially you think, "Ah, the time," but I go back to-
Yeah Samantha Saltz, yes, and how can we make this better, right? Yeah. So I'm thinking, okay, let's do this. Like, let's, let's figure, let's figure it out. So, One of the teachers at my building, Stephanie Harsen, I wrote a grant so that we could get some funds. Oh, cool. And then the first project they did was they built her a Halloween costume.
But, you know, people are like, "How do you have time for this? You're a counselor." Okay, let's talk about that. Because how do you not have time for this? Mm-hmm. Because we took students who are needing to learn some social skills. Mm-hmm. And you are building them authentically in a group like this, right?
Frontloading Expectations
---
Hanna Mick: So we can front load things, like for instance, the Halloween costume.
Mm-hmm. We can have a conversation ahead of time. You might want her to be a hot dog. You might want her to be a robot. I might want her to be a pickle, right? How are we gonna decide what [00:31:00] this is? What if you don't get your way? What does that look like? How do we treat the other people in our group? You see where we're, we're going here.
Yeah. So that way when the fallout happens We've had the conversation. Mm-hmm. And now you know, "Oh, I don't..." You know, kick and scream and, and they might, but if they do it's like, "Hey, we talked about this." Let's congratulate the others- ...for, that they, that this is what the dog is gonna be.
Piper Costume Project
---
Hanna Mick: but then the problem-solving skills on top of it, I mean, project-based learning groups, I mean, the amount of skills you're building, those authentic social skills, leadership skills, problem-solving skills, critical thinking, creativity.
I mean, my list could, communication, could literally keep going on and on forever. So you've got a group of kids that have never made anything like this before. Mm-hmm. They're now figuring out, "Oh, we have to make a, um, pattern for this- ...dog costume. We've gotta figure out how to use the sewing machines.
Do you have sewing machines?" "How do we get sewing machines?" I do.
Gus Applequist: That
Hanna Mick: sounds scary.
Right? Like, yeah. But you got, I mean, they were third graders- ...sewing on the sewing machine.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Hanna Mick: Rocking it [00:32:00] out, right?
Humane Society Partnership
---
Hanna Mick: So it's just so cool, and then it ended up ke- it kept going and going, and they decided that, you know, Piper's really loved at our building, but what about dogs that aren't so loved?
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Hanna Mick: So we started partnering with the Humane Society in town, and a true project-based learning experience, calling them. I had the kids call and say, "H- what do you need help with? How can we help?" And they said, "We need, um, enrichment toys for dogs." And so the kids got off the phone and they said, "We need enrichment toys."
And I said, "What does that mean?" Oh, right? But again-
Sydney Collins: It's
Hanna Mick: gone back.
No, but I mean, then it's like, figure out what this means, right? Yeah. So then this is, we're integrating technology in a way that is very helpful, so they're figuring out, what is an enrichment toy? How do we make one? What does that look like?
What's the cost? Right? So I don't know if you go back to the, the tech piece, I guess there's things like this where you're using it in ways that i- it's third graders- ...that are so cool, and we couldn't do that project if they [00:33:00] didn't have tech, you know, or the device to do it. So- ...and, and they got to do, you know, they did all kind- they made snuffle mats.
Look that up. Find out what that is. It's-
Sydney Collins: Oh, is it- It's- Is that where they have to chase the food?
Hanna Mick: Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like they forage. Oh.
like
Sydney Collins: forage.
yeah. That's sick. Yeah.
Hanna Mick: Yeah. And then they ended up building a new product line, 'cause we were only doing dogs and we should be more inclusive. Oh my gosh.
And so they created the... They figured this, all this out on their own, you know? Mm. But again, they're doing it by researching and googling and figuring things... I mean, so cool. So-
that was, that was, that was a good time with ol' Piper and Pickles.
Gus Applequist: You mentioned earlier that one of your, like, three things you're supposed to be doing is- ...helping with, like, careers?
Hanna Mick: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And, like, in elementary school?
Hanna Mick: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Is that, r- like-
Hanna Mick: That's real, man.
Gus Applequist: Yeah what does, what does that look like?
Career Bias By Third Grade
---
Hanna Mick: Okay, so here's the stat that, like- Just drives me nuts as a counselor. Like, it makes me sad. So by third grade, students have already kind of in their brains [00:34:00] decided what they can be based on race- ...socioeconomic status and gender.
Gus Applequist: Not what
they wanna be- But what they can be
what they can be.
Hanna Mick: They
can't, Correct. Yes. Yeah. So, and, and a lot, and so I th- I just, that makes me so sad because I'm like, "What? You're th- you're nine. Yes, you can be an astronaut. Yes, you can be these things." And so they just start to develop that, their own bias. Mm. Mm. And not that that can't be disrupted.
It can. but I, I got to thinking, you know, how can we disrupt that? Mm. How can you find careers that are something you've never even heard of before? So like for instance, I went to, a women in tech leadership conference, and this lady was talking about her son and what he does for a living. And she said, "Oh, he's a golf club designer."
I was like-
Gus Applequist: Whoa. "
Hanna Mick: I'm sorry, a, a golf club designer?" She's like, "Yeah." You know, she's like, to her it's like, "Of course he is." Like, yeah, makes total sense. To me, like I don't golf. Like, I would've never thought that that would be a [00:35:00] career. Or I was just at the big, American School Counseling Association conference in New Orleans, and I ran into my friend Christina, who's from Mississippi.
She was talking about what her husband does. Her husband does weight distribution for, like FedEx- Oh ... for planes. Yeah. So I was like, "Okay," I said, "I'm understa-," so like boxes and things. And she said, "No, like whales."
Sydney Collins: I was like, "What?" Like whales?
Hanna Mick: I, yes. And she said, "He has had to ship a whale."
Sydney Collins: Yeah. So trying-
Yes to figure out weight and how that works and functions and all the- ...legit.
Gus Applequist: I wanna meet a kid that that is what
Hanna Mick: they wanna be.
Is that they're, right, like, "I want to ship- Whales ... whales." And I honestly, I was, before I c- came here, I was scrolling Facebook, and they were, moving like four whales to some zoo.
And I was like, "I bet her husband's shipping whales right now." I
Sydney Collins: think I saw that same thing. It was like all these guys on this flatbed trailer.
Hanna Mick: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Hanna Mick: Yeah, I'm like- Hanging out, "I wonder if he, And you're like, "Ah." I wonder if he's shipping whales today." But you know, I, I, this goes to show, like I am also [00:36:00] limited-
...as a professional as to what I know.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Hanna Mick: Right? So but there's all these crazy jobs out there. Mm. And I always wonder, you know, how can I help my students to see that there are so many options and opportunities?
AI Career Discovery
---
Hanna Mick: So one thing that we did do is with my older students, um, we did create a, school-supported AI tool. Right. And we used it to do career exploration. And so l- like for example, if I told you a student liked dirt biking, um, video games, and organization- Oh ... what's he gonna be? And he doesn't like, he doesn't wanna be a video game designer. What's he gonna be? Just kidding, I'm not gonna ask you that 'cause you don't know.
I didn't know, right? And I was like, "Dude, I don't know." So we a- we talked to the AI-supported tool, and it gave several suggestions. He's like, "I don't know about any of those." And then it h- it hit on one and he was like,
"This
AAK_Ep69_wide: is
Hanna Mick: it."
Gus Applequist: And I
Hanna Mick: was like, "What is it?" He's like, "An e-sports manager."
Sydney Collins: Oh, yeah.
Hanna Mick: Right?
Sydney Collins: Brilliant.
Like-
Gus Applequist: What, what is that? [00:37:00]
Hanna Mick: Go for it.
Sydney Collins: So e-sports, obviously, um, like, a video games, right? Yep. Uh-huh. So they, there has to be someone who manages this whole thing. I actually applied for a job like this in Kansas City. Oh, yeah, there-
Gus Applequist: Recently? No, sorry.
Sydney Collins: No, no, not recently. This was, like, six... Before Fili. but what they do is some of these e-sports gaming things, they travel throughout the country, throughout the nation. There's also- Oh ... like, a team manager. It's like a team- Okay. Yeah, it is a team manager. Yeah, exactly. Okay. But there's also the, I mean, there's different levels of this. So then you have-
...um, all of the leagues. Who's managing those leagues? Who's managing, just all the Kansas high school e-sports? Yep. Oh, dang. Who's managing the-
the KCAC e-sports teams? Like-
Never
Gus Applequist: thought about
Sydney Collins: that.
Yeah. Wow. So you just get a management degree and probably something related to e-sports in college, and then boom.
Hanna Mick: It's crazy. It's crazy,
Sydney Collins: yeah.
And
Hanna Mick: then I, so again, I didn't, I, I knew about esports. Yeah. Never thought about- esports manager. Mm-hmm. So then I'm doing, you know, my own little research. I'm like, "How many careers [00:38:00] are in esports?" Hundreds.
Hundreds.
Hundreds.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Hanna Mick: Hmm. I mean, it blows my mind. And I, it, it's just like, it's cra- I would have never come up with that.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Hanna Mick: Um, I had another one who she ... I mean, this one prob- this makes more sense, but I was very embarrassed because she said, "I, I like fashion, but I also love, like, helping animals." And I was like, "Well, those are kind of-"
Costume
Sydney Collins: design
Hanna Mick: for animals ...
ki- kind ... Yeah. So- I know. I didn't, I didn't, but- I, I know. That's exactly what it was. It was a, it was the pet, like, fashion.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Hanna Mick: And like, I dress my dogs up all the time, so like, I'm super embarrassed as I have pictures of my animals dressed up all over the... I was like, "Okay." But you know, I'll buy from you. I'm ready.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Hanna Mick: You know? And- just, just crazy stuff that it comes up with.
I had another one, cultural journalist was what it came up with for her. She loves traveling- Oh ... photography. Yeah. In my vocab, I was like, "Tour guide, travel agent." She's like, "Mm, no." No. So it, I think-
We
Sydney Collins: actually know one of those guys. Yeah?
Hanna Mick: Well- Oh, I don't, I don't doubt that ... You know what I guess. ...Being in this line- of business, absolutely. [00:39:00] So I think that is a way that you can really use AI to open things up for kids to see what is out there, and then they click. I mean, I had a kiddo refusing to do, you know, school's hard.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Mm.
Hanna Mick: And so thinking about your future when school's hard and you're in elementary school-
...ah, it's hard. So you know, I said, "You can put, type down anything that you like." He's like, "I like Hot Cheetos and I like video games." I said, "Stick it in." Right. Hot Cheetos and video games. Yeah. Just see what let's see what it comes up with. And it was something along the lines of, like, marketing for gamers.
Oh, yeah.
But like, within, like when you play games, like the marketing ads that co-
The brand gaming, ...yes. Yeah.
Yeah. And he was like, "I could do that? I could, I've seen those." And I was like- yeah. "Yeah." So it's, it's just I
Gus Applequist: have, I have a high school friend who, um, he works in marketing for Wrigley Mars.
Hanna Mick: Oh, cool.
Gus Applequist: And he developed a new brand for Wrigley Mars for gum that has caffeine in it for gamers. [00:40:00]
Hanna Mick: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And his-
Is it that-
... his designs-
Hanna Mick: ... that, I think I've seen- ...or I've seen something
Gus Applequist: similar at least.
There, there's gum and there's also like- Mints ... mints now. Yep. Yeah. And it's cool 'cause like I walk in the convenience store and like, there it is.
There it is. You know? It's like, hey, I know the guy
Sydney Collins: that-
Gus Applequist: that
Sydney Collins: helped make that.
Hanna Mick: I
Gus Applequist: know.
It's crazy. It's really cool. There are so many unique jobs.
Hanna Mick: There's so many, and like they just, you don't, you're limited by your own exposure. Mm-hmm. And so I'm thinking, man, if we could- expose you to a ton of different things so that you kind of get an idea of what you might want
' Cause that's really what elementary's all about, is that- exposure, thinking about different things. And then the older you get, obviously, you're really trying to turn towards some sort of- road that you're gonna go down. But- that's where I think AI can be awesome.
Road Trip Nation Tool
---
Hanna Mick: There's another great tool out there for, definitely high school. It's, it's an AI platform, too. Um, there's pieces of it that are AI, but it's called Road Trip Nation. Oh, man. Huh. That is cool. So it starts off with talking about, like, noise. So, like, all the noise that you have, and the noise [00:41:00] is maybe somebody telling you you have to do this- ... Oh. or, um, all of our family- everybody in our family's been this, so you'll be this.
Mm. And that how that, that really is noise, and you need to figure out is that what you wanna do. If it's something that interests you- ...yes, do it. And then it also talks about, which I love, imposter syndrome. I don't love imposter syndrome, but- ... I love that it talks about that and feeling like- ..."Should I be here? Am I good enough for this?" I mean, I think, dang If I could've had that in high school- that would be ...awesome. But then it takes you down different career paths. You can see all of these videos of people who Road Trip Nation has gone out to, um, you know, to see what they do. And I mean, it is-
insane amount. And then eventually you end up, um, figuring out maybe something that you might be interested in, and then you do your own interview of that person. And,
Gus Applequist: Wow ...
Hanna Mick: it's, it's a really cool pro- and it's free.
Gus Applequist: Huh.
Hanna Mick: I love that. Free 99, my favorite price.
Free
Gus Applequist: 99.
Hanna Mick: Yes.
Counselor Of The Year
---
Sydney Collins: well as we kind of wrap up, I [00:42:00] do wanna mention, to our audience, you are also one of the finalists for the National Counselor...
Remind me the whole title, the National Counselors- Yeah, it's, it's- ... Association or whatever ... yeah, it's
Hanna Mick: ASCA, so the American School Counseling Association. Yes. Um, they are our national-
...peeps, and so finalist for National Counselor of the Year. Right.
Gus Applequist: Is this something people can vote on?
Hanna Mick: No.
Sydney Collins: Oh, darn.
Gus Applequist: No.
'Cause you have my vote.
I didn't know if you were, like, nominated or-
Hanna Mick: So- ...
Sydney Collins: how, how that works ...
Hanna Mick: what it, what kinda happens is once you are the state-
Sydney Collins: The state, okay ...
Hanna Mick: uh, winner-
Mm,
...then all 50-
Sydney Collins: That makes sense.
Hanna Mick: Okay ... of the state winners get-
Gus Applequist: Like a battle royale?
Hanna Mick: It is. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty much. I mean, you have...
It's a very lengthy-
Gus Applequist: Wow ...
Hanna Mick: process. Mm. So you have to fill out all kinds of things about your program, showcasing that it is a comprehensive model, um, that you're following best practices, what are things that [00:43:00] potentially could set you apart or that kind of thing. And then there's also, you know, references and, um, artifacts. that's another piece with that, back to that AI, man, but we can, we can come back to that. Yeah. But, um, just, just showcasing that you n- you are doing what you're saying- ...that you're, that you're doing. But yeah, that, that... Kansas Counselor of the Year is pretty awesome. That was, like, mind-blowing.
Mm. Like, crazy, crazy, 'cause I don't, um... There's only two people from Kansas that have ever... The other one was, like, 15 years ago or something.
Oh, wow.
So it's been a hot minute. So yeah.
Sydney Collins: That's
Hanna Mick: amazing.
Pretty cool.
Sydney Collins: If there's one thing you wish every Kansas parent understood about school counselors, what would it be?
Hanna Mick: Oh, I feel like that's just a simple answer.
Sydney Collins: I- Is it?
Hanna Mick: Yeah. That We're-
Sydney Collins: I thought that was a hard question 'cause I don't think I could answer it.
Hanna Mick: I w- you know, I want to
We're here for every student and them, too. You know, that, the whole ... It's a collaborative effort. We wanna work with [00:44:00] the students, we wanna work with families. That's a huge piece. we've gotta work together to, to help out. I think that's pretty simple, but we're here for everybody.
Sydney Collins: And if, then I'll then I'll throw this cur- curve ball.
Future Of Counseling
---
Sydney Collins: What do you think the future of school counseling can be?
Hanna Mick: Oh. Or should be? Well- the ...future of school counseling, I think well, I'm biased, right? But I think now more than ever, those are ... The sc- the skills that counselors teach, which teachers do, too- but we teach them more, I guess, explicitly. that's gonna be more import- I mean, in this age of tech and AI, you know, the communication skills, the leadership skills, the critical thinking, the problem-solving, all of those things are gonna be so important.
And you hear, you know, a long time ago, they did the Oh, Dr. Watson went around and ...he- used to ask businesses what do businesses want? And they all said it wa- they called them soft skills, but the durable, the life skills. They want them to have those life skills. And I think in [00:45:00] the age of tech, we're gonna have to have a little bit of both, right?
We're gonna have to have a little tech skill, but also a lot of human skill as well. So I think, our role is shifting to maybe that digital mentor piece as well. but just doing what we've always done, which is let's do what's best for kids, right? Mm. But I, I think the future I'm not, I'm not worried.
You know, people are like, "Is AI going to steal our jobs?" And I'm like, "No." Like, "You don't ... No. That's not a thing." Hm. So yeah.
All
Sydney Collins: right. Well, thank you
Gus Applequist: for coming on today.
Yeah. Thank you very much.
Hanna Mick: Yeah. Appreciate it. Thank you guys for having me. Mm. It's been fun.
[00:46:00]
Post Interview Reflections
---
Gus Applequist: Well, we hope you enjoyed that conversation with Hanna. I've, I've come in contact with a few teachers and professors that are, like, really not ... I, I hate to use the word embracing AI, but, but they're excited about it- and energized. And, and it, it does make me a lot more hopeful that AI isn't gonna just be a bad thing- that, like, there can actually be some really meaningful positive things from it. And so I hope she's right, and I hope she continues to find good uses for it.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. And she's also, she's definitely one of those people that you would stop in Walmart and just tell your whole life story to. She just has that aura and that- vibe. And I, I don't know. We could have probably talked to her for hours.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. I love those.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Many of our guests are that way.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And it's, it's a joy.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Very much so.
Gus Applequist: Well-
Sydney Collins: What do you got for me?
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Dartography Segment Begins
---
Gus Applequist: I, I warned Sydney [00:47:00] earlier that today's segment has an element of danger. And she didn't know exactly what that meant.
So, okay, we're gonna have to go all the way back to the first episode of Ask a Kansan. Oh. There was something kind of odd about the first episode of Ask a Kansan, and that was- ... was that our guest was seated here, Sydney was seated here, and then there was this other space where I was seated.
Sydney Collins: And- That makes so much more sense now.
Yeah. There's a- I was like, "Why is the camera all
Gus Applequist: the way over here?" We have a camera that's not in its normal place. Um, and, and so there's, like, this other tiny little set up against the wall here where I sat for the first episode until Sydney's lovely mother- Was like- ... said, "Why is Gus just in some other room just reacting?"
Well,
Sydney Collins: it, it was like a conversation between me and Leslie, and then the, you would just appear randomly.
Gus Applequist: Shaking my head.
Sydney Collins: And shaking your head. And we're like, "Oh,
Gus Applequist: yeah." So, so we're going to have to, uh, to shift this off of our normal set. So I'll be right back.
Sydney Collins: Oh, my gosh. [00:48:00] You can see us. Hello. Yeah. Oh, okay. I'm gonna have to narrate. So you can see Gus. Okay, we have a board that I got yelled at for looking at. Oh, okay. Oh, oh, we did some magic in the studio. Okay, so he hung the board up. It's a corkboard with a... Oh, with a like... So it's a rectangle or it- rectangle corkboard. He cut the corner off of it so it's Kansas.
Okay. Got it.
Gus Applequist: We're all on the same page.
Sydney Collins: We're all on the same page. Very good
narrating this as we go. Okay, so he's got a dart everybody. Oh, I have a dart. Oh, no. Where did you get a dart?
Gus Applequist: I, I may have bought it.
Sydney Collins: You went specifically out and bought this really nice dart In order to tell, my gosh.
Gus Applequist: Okay, so- So welcome to my new segment, [00:49:00] Dartography. All
Sydney Collins: right, Sheldon.
Gus Applequist: Here's how Dartography will work.
Um, I have already selected, uh, through random chance, a, an area of Kansas to talk a little b- about today. Okay. At the end of the segment, you're going to throw your dart at Kansas, and between this and a future segment, I will research wherever your dart lands and give you a little bit of background on-
Sydney Collins: Oh
Gus Applequist: that spot. So that is how Dartography works.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: Okay? So when I, randomly threw my dart at the wall- Okay ... uh, what I came up with was a, a spot that's a little airstrip outside of a town called Cimarron.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: And right next door, an even smaller community called Ingalls. These are both in Gray County, Kansas, and pretty small population out there.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Gus Applequist: So I have, I have three stories to tell you about this little part of our state.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: Okay, [00:50:00] so, and they're not necessarily in chronological order, so I apologize about that.
Cimarron County Seat Gunfight
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Gus Applequist: So story number one, back in the 1880s out on the frontier, being the county seat was, like, crazy important for towns, right?
Sydney Collins: Right, yeah.
Gus Applequist: And the county seat got the courthouse, they got the records- they got the business. It was kind of like the place in that county.
Sydney Collins: The place, yeah.
Gus Applequist: Now, in, in this county, both Cimarron and Ingalls wanted to be county seat-
Sydney Collins: Oh, no ...
Gus Applequist: real bad. And on January 12th, 1889, a wagon rolled into Cimarron carrying a group of hired guns.
And not just any hired guns. The man leading them is Bill Tilghman, one of the most famous lawmen of the Old West. Riding with him is Jim Masterson, that's the brother of famed Bat Masterson. Yeah. And their job was to walk into the Cimarron courthouse and physically haul the county records back to Ingalls, making it the county seat.
Sydney Collins: Okay, that's funny.
Gus Applequist: So Cimarron's townsfolk, [00:51:00] they found out, and they were not happy. And so a gunfight broke out right there in the street, and by the time the smoke clears, one man died and several were wounded. And the way the story goes, the whole standoff finally ended when Bat Masterson himself sent a telegram from Dodge City telling Cimarron to back down.
Things were wild in this era in Kansas history. it did end up working out well for Cimarron in the end. They did, uh, become the county seat for good a few years later. So there's your first story, okay?
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Sewells Folly Canal
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Gus Applequist: All right, story number two. the town of Ingalls basically exists because of one man, and his name was Aza, or, uh, A-S-A, Aza, how is it- Oh, Asa
Asa. Thank you.
Sydney Collins: I was gonna say-
Gus Applequist: Asa Sewell. Asa made his fortune back east selling something called Hop Bitters, a cure-all tonic And let's just say that that was mostly hops and alcohol.
My kind of tonic.
I guess they called him the Hop Bitters King. So [00:52:00] he took that fortune of his out to Kansas, and he decided he was going to make the plains bloom.
And the way he decided to do this was try to divert part of the Ark- Arkansas River.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: So he, he hand dug, well, with a mule, uh, or mules. I'm assuming a lot of mules. Because he dug a 96-mile-long irrigation canal along the Arkansas River. The problem was that the sandy soil that he dug this canal in, was not enough to contain the water, and so the, the water just sank right through- the soil. And so it, it be- it got a nickname of Sewell's Folly. But that, that left a mark. You know, I, I, I haven't looked, but I think there's still evidence of this canal out there, in this part of the world. And but that canal did still pull settlers to the region because they thought, "Oh, they're building this thing-" Oh, yeah
"it's gonna be great." So-
Sydney Collins: 'Cause 96 miles didn't happen in like two weeks.
Gus Applequist: Oh, no. That's a long ways. That's a long time. Especially then. I mean, that [00:53:00] was- crazy length.
Ingalls Name Connections
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Gus Applequist: Okay, so the final thing is, is gonna lead into my ending here, and that's how did it get its name, Ingalls? Talking about Ingalls.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: Ingalls did not start out as Ingalls. It started out as Sewell, after Asa.
Sydney Collins: Right.
Gus Applequist: But it got renamed for a Kansas US senator named John James Ingalls, which was a big name in Kansas politics at the time, mostly forgotten now. So the little town on our map is named after a senator that most people today have never heard of.
But if you're like me, and a lot of people that grew up on the prairie, Ingalls does kind of ring a bell.
Sydney Collins: Really?
Gus Applequist: Right?
Sydney Collins: Well, yeah. We know some Ingalls.
Gus Applequist: Uh-
Sydney Collins: In general ...
Gus Applequist: was there, is there one in particular that comes to mind? Perhaps- Like,
Sydney Collins: not any.
Gus Applequist: Laura?
Sydney Collins: Well, yeah, Laura Ingalls
Gus Applequist: Wilder, obviously. Okay, very good.
Okay. Very good. Okay. So I- it got me wondering, is there a connection between the town of Ingalls and Laura Ingalls Wilder? And- Hmm ... so there actually is, but it's not, it's [00:54:00] not real direct. So the, the town was named for the senator, not the author. And Laura's real Kansas chapter, the, the, you know, the Little House on the Prairie-
happened way down in the southeast corner of the state, nowhere near this part. Yeah. But if we go back a few years, the two families do seem to braid together. Senator John Ingalls and Laura's father, Charles Ingalls, both tra- both trace back to the same Ingalls family that settled Lynn, Massachusetts back in the 1600s.
Oh my gosh. A pair of brothers who came over from England.
Sydney Collins: Wow.
Gus Applequist: So there, there is multiple connections in our state to, uh, to Laura Ingalls Wilder. Now, you know, I bring this up because, uh-
Sydney Collins: Do you think Ingalls was their actual last name when they came over? Or did they just do Ingalls 'cause of England?
Gus Applequist: That's a great question. I have, I have no idea. It's, it... Oh, is that? I hadn't even thought of that, like, being why they called it that. I have no idea.
Sydney Collins: Mm. I'm just throwing it out there.
Gus Applequist: You know, if, if you're not aware, there is a new, uh, adaptation of Little House on the Prairie coming out- or out now.
I'm not sure which.
Sydney Collins: I- [00:55:00] it's out.
Gus Applequist: Is
Sydney Collins: I- it was in theaters. I don't think it's out digital distribution yet.
Gus Applequist: Oh. I thought it was a TV show.
Sydney Collins: Or maybe it's that.
Gus Applequist: I need a fact check.
Sydney Collins: There's a new, there's a new thing out there- Netflix ... you should Google.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. And it's getting some pretty good reviews.
Now I'm... I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that this doesn't take place in Kansas. I'm guessing it takes place in Nebraska.
Sydney Collins: It's probably Nebraska or Oklahoma. But, uh- It's probably where it's filmed actually, but-
Gus Applequist: Yeah. I would encourage you to go and check it out. I- I've heard that it's a, it's a, it's a more faithful representation of the books compared- Oh
to, the, the famous TV show from a few decades back. but yeah, I think Kansas should be proud of that connection, and it should be proud of communities like Ingalls and Cimarron.
Sydney Collins: Yeah
Gus Applequist: Hey. Okay, so it is in Kansas
Sydney Collins: Netflix series.
Gus Applequist: It's a series on Netflix Okay So it's not very often that stories set in Kansas make it- and so let's celebrate and make sure that this thing gets seen-
by a lot of people, 'cause it's very exciting.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Dart Throw Results
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Gus Applequist: So are you ready to throw that dart, dart? I see you [00:56:00] over there. I do think you should get up so we don't accidentally lose a camera.
Sydney Collins: Say you don't you, you don't want to pull a Ted Lasso. What you don't know is every Sunday I played darts with my father-
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: That's- ... till I was 11
Gus Applequist: years old ... one of my favorite scenes in Ted Lasso. So I, I'm gonna do my best to de- to describe what's happening here for our audio o- only audience. Um, okay, she's lining up.
She, she's taking aim. Um, there's a lot of concentration. Oh, where did we- We're almost home. Oh, wow. Yeah, we are, we are surprisingly close. We might even be in McPherson. We might be
Sydney Collins: in
Gus Applequist: McPherson. Which might be problematic because I'm guessing you know more about McPherson than I do, but-
Sydney Collins: I don't know, you might scrounge up some stuff- that I don't know.
Gus Applequist: Well, what I'll do is I will overlay an, a map onto that, and I will figure out where-
Sydney Collins: Maybe we just do put a map on it, yeah.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Well, in full disclosure, it is very hard to find maps these days. Oh, is it? I, I looked at three truck stops today trying to find a map, and I couldn't find one.
So instead I had to [00:57:00] tape- Three truck stops ... a piece of gaff tape to the-
Sydney Collins: Um, I bet- if you go to a travel center- Okay ... travel centers will have them.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Gotcha. I
Sydney Collins: bet.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: So anyway, I hope you've enjoyed this, uh, inaugural journey on Dartography. And, uh, we'll see where the dart takes us. Did you come up with that
Sydney Collins: name?
Dartography.
Gus Applequist: Or is that an
Sydney Collins: actual
Gus Applequist: thing? Well, I had another name, and then I was working with AI, and AI w- was going down this Dartography thing, and I was like, "You know, that's pretty catchy."
Sydney Collins: Dartography. It's good. Yeah. I like it.
Gus Applequist: I do too. Okay. I do too. And it's, uh, it's truly random.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: We might end up in Oklahoma.
We might-
We'll rethrow if, if for some reason the dart doesn't land. For some
Sydney Collins: reason we go out of state.
Gus Applequist: And it gives us an excuse to use our little auxiliary set over here.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. That's very true. Oh, goodness.
Episode Wrap Up
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Gus Applequist: Well, you've done it. You've reached the end of another episode of Ask a Kansan.
Sydney Collins: Please make sure to visit us online at askakansan.com.
[00:58:00] check out our Curious Kansas newsletter, sign up for it, and take a look at all the merch.
Gus Applequist: There's... The best thing you can do to help us in our journey as a podcast is to share about the podcast with somebody else in your circle. Um, there may be an episode that stands out to you, uh, this episode. You know, if those counselors, those teachers in your life- we'd, we'd love to, to connect with them.
Sydney Collins: Yep. And make sure to explore all the other episodes 'cause they are not the same each time.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. And they're timeless too, which, um-
Sydney Collins: Yeah. They're very, they're very relevant.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. thank you for tuning in to another episode. Have a great day.
Sydney Collins: Bye.