Giant Conversations

Summary

Join us as we explore the latest in NFL draft strategies, team building, and the cultural experiences of traveling abroad. Our hosts share insights on football tactics, draft picks, as well as their personal adventures in Turkey and Brazil.

Key Topics

NFL draft strategies and picks
Team building and player evaluation
Cultural experiences in South America
Travel stories and personal insights

Sound Bites

"Mustafa Kemal Ataturk banned the fez in 1923"
"This isn't a clown show, it's the real deal"
"They're building a physical football team"

(00:00) - Cultural Insights: Fez and Turban
(06:12) - Trust in Coaching: A Shift in Giants' Management
(12:04) - Draft Strategies: Analyzing the Giants' Picks
(18:10) - Comparative Analysis: Giants vs. Jets Draft Choices
(24:02) - Future Prospects: Evaluating New Players and Strategies
(31:31) - Coaching Changes and Player Development
(40:46) - Team Strategy and Player Selection
(49:05) - Sikh Philosophy and Educational Outreach

Creators and Guests

Host

Hari Nam Singh Khalsa

Hari Nam is a renown spiritual teacher, whose passions include opera, philosophy, photography and travel (to name a few). But on Sundays in the fall you can find him living and dying with his beloved New York Football Giants, following since 1959 and a season ticket holder since 1964!

Host

Kevin Weldon

Kevin is a lifetime Giant fan and long time season ticket holder. Currently a PGA golf professional after many years as a semiconductor technologist. He enjoys history, traveling, music and spending time with friends, family and the cats.

What is Giant Conversations?

Hosts Hari Nam Singh Khalsa and Kevin Weldon provide their insights on the latest happenings in the world of the New York Football Giants. Drawing from twelve decades of Giants football fandom, their perspectives offer a unique and comprehensive view. They will also integrate their shared passion for world travel and curiosity for unique new experiences into each episode. Join them in their lighthearted and wide-ranging conversations, always infused with their unwavering love for everything Big Blue.

Okay, welcome back to Giant Conversations Post-Draft Show.

And we're very sorry about the technical difficulties here.

We even hope that this is recording as we're doing it.

But as you can see, um Kevin is in Istanbul.

And although you can see it, I'm calling from Rio de Janeiro.

So uh the Giants are traveling well.

And I've got my usual turban on and what would you call that on the top of your head?

Is that a fez?

Okay, that's what they call it.

They call that a fez.

It was the traditional headdress during the Ottoman Empire.

And now uh it's worn exclusively by tourists for the most part.

uh But it's a symbol of Istanbul and Islam, uh the larger, greater Islam community in
general.

least it was before World War I.

After Turkish independence in 1923, fan was that the fez was banned by Mustafa Kamel who
is known known more ubiquitously as Ataturk who is kind of the national hero of the

Turkish Republic.

He's kind of like George Washington and and Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin rolled
up into one.

He's on every dollar

he's the one who did away with the fez though

That's the one mistake he made, in my opinion.

Except for the tourists.

Yeah, well, you know, it's like being in Mexico.

You know, the tourists always are buying this sombrero, but I've never seen anybody
actually wear one of them in Mexico.

Something like that.

But I find it pretty fetching.

So every once in a while, I'll just slip on my fez and go out.

Well, I think it would be only right that the next I think it's only right that the next
giant game we go to I'll be wearing my seek turban, of course, because I'm a seek and you

can be like a fez wannabe.

And I think we would look really good together.

I think it goes it's a very nice match with very nice match with your giant jersey I made.

Thank you.

Yes, and behind me is not the Hudson River.

That's not New Jersey and New York, but that's actually uh the Bosphorus Straits in
Istanbul.

And unique to Istanbul is that the city is separated into two continents.

On the left side is Asia, where my wife grew up, and on the right side is Europe, where
most of the uh tourist attractions are and where the Ottoman Empire had their...

had their headquarters for a thousand years.

it's a, if you get the opportunity, it's a, it's a wonderful place to visit.

And uh we're heading there tonight.

So I'm still in Boston, but we're heading there tonight.

But I'm a lot has happened uh since our last conversation, which I think was almost
probably two months ago.

And uh we have a lot of new players.

We have a lot of uh new coaches.

And, you know, I'm in general pretty comfortable with what the Giants are doing, uh
primarily because of the coach.

You know, I used to hang on every word, every article, you know, mired into minutiae, but
I still file the Giants, of course, closely, but I don't worry about a lot of things that

I used to, you know, because I have just this trust in

John Horbar and you know recently and we can talk about the draft in a second but he was
being interviewed after the draft and somebody asked him so what are you going to do with

the past rusher you just drafted you know we already have a bunch of edge rushers and he
just said oh we're going to play him at the know linebacker and it just said how

It's striking the disparity between him and Brian Dable.

Brian Dable would never say a thing.

He'd cloak that response in secrecy probably from his time with Belichick.

I don't know, but it was just refreshing.

The guy just told the truth.

So we're going to use this guy here.

Now what are you going to do with the tackle?

Oh, we're going to move him to God.

and he's gonna play guard and a few years down the line he may go to tackle.

Everybody knows this, know, uh Debel, who I liked, uh could never bring himself to just
open up and say what everyone knew was true anyway.

So that's just one other refreshing thing, a small thing, but something refreshing about
Harbo.

I have to, you know, I hadn't thought about it, but I'd have to agree with you on both
counts.

uh And it kind of reminds me back, you know, when I was a lot younger and they had good
teams under, you know, Parcells and George Young.

uh And I still was following the draft back then, although it was not the cottage industry
it is now.

And uh I remember, well, they know what they're doing.

So what do I know?

But then they started so bad the last 10 years that you're questioning every minutia about
the player because you really don't trust the people choosing the players.

So I think I agree with you on that.

then also, yeah, it's kind of a...

I don't know whether the hard boy is revealing everything, but the last coach was
annoying.

It was annoying listening to that.

You you're an adult and it's like, it gets to the point that I stopped listening to these
press conferences because it's a waste of time.

You um know, of course we had Joe Judge and that was kind of entertaining, especially at
the end, just seeing how he was melting down.

This isn't a clown show.

Turns out it was the biggest clown show.

it is a cloud show, right?

Exactly.

ah But I think the way that Harbaugh's uh talking press conferences is what you would
expect a professional to talk like.

And uh the other stuff was just like uh infantile.

was no reason for it.

And why am I even listening to this?

He's not going to say anything.

So and what's he hiding?

mean, what are like they're they're they're vying for the Super Bowl here.

Are you kidding?

do with their third string tackle?

I mean, that's that's privilege infinite.

That's serentipish seven seven, you know, No, no surreptitious That's what it's early.

I'm still in Boston.

It's early so forgive me, but you know just about the draft and just about the draft and
in general, you know, it was interesting to see 350,000

people at the draft.

And I'm harking back to uh when I got out of college uh in the early 80s, I moved to
Oregon.

uh I had a oh bunch of buddies there that were really into football.

And one of them, uh Steve Johnson, he's from Birmingham, England.

Great guy.

uh He's got the head the size of a German shepherd.

Big guy, really big guy.

And he used to have us all over for a draft party on Tuesday morning.

think it was.

The draft was on Tuesday morning on ESPN.

And we used to, there was like six of us.

And we used to fill out who we thought would be selected in the first round for each of
the teams.

And we'd have a little pool and we'd watch the draft, figure out who.

who got the most correct and then we go golfing.

That was the draft back in the early to mid 80s.

It was up against Good Morning America and reruns of F-Troop.

And now the draft's bigger than the World Series.

It's just amazing how it's grown and how the NFL's been marketed.

and how it's drawn in so many people.

It's a miracle of modern marketing, uh you could say.

know, you know, I think it's one of the things that led to my demise in my job at the
time, but I have to admit that I used to call him sick every year.

And they're going, you know, to the point that to the point that the boss is going, you
know, it seems like you uh always get sick about this time of the year, you know, in

April.

So I said, well, you know, it's the change of seasons.

And uh

in recent times, I've been calling in sick the day after the draft.

So what did you think about the draft?

In general.

Well, you know what I think of that?

uh Again, unlike recent years, I think you almost have to look at the draft in kind of
combination with uh people they've gained or lost in free agency and trades and things

like this, because I didn't quite see the connection in past years.

But you can see that uh they kind of have a plan.

And it's interesting the players they, you know, who they lost and the players they kept.

And uh we talked about this the last three or four years, especially the first draft of
the Shane and Dayball regime.

I'm thinking they've got to rebuild this team and they're basically selecting midgets.

They're selecting these, you know, like.

quick little players, they haven't established they could actually um compete at the line
of scrimmage, which we're used to.

And so I think you look back to their first year and um they really drafted guys that I
don't think were appropriate for where they were at.

And now it's like you can see that he's trying to build a certain type of team.

So he's building, they look like

you know, they didn't pursue guys like uh Robinson and Flaud.

And I think they would have liked to keep them, but I think they're moving on from that
kind of player.

It looks like they're trying to establish kind of a physical football team, which I like.

uh I think it started in free agency.

kept it to, they kept the tackle they had, that was their biggest need.

And then they kind of let go the players that I don't think were in the mold of what they
were looking for.

And then they got that inside linebacker and free agency.

And that's a bigger type of play, bigger physical type of player.

And then we could talk about the individual draft picks.

I had this thought they could possibly get this guy Reese.

I actually did.

And I thought it all came down to the Jets pick.

That um everybody had the Jets picking him.

But I had seen, you we talk about, I watch a lot of college football and I think the Jets
were gonna, could very well possibly pick the player who was the um most sure bet pass

rusher.

They were looking for a pass rusher.

So I could see the Jets going for this guy Bailey over a Reese.

And if they did that, I thought maybe the third and

fourth picks, third pick went the way I thought it would.

thought that they, that what was it?

Who picked the running back?

Oh, Arizona.

And I think they picked the running back.

It's kind of like when the Giants picked Barkley.

I think he was probably the best player on the board, but.

didn't have an offensive line.

think Arizona is kind of doing the same thing.

And I think Arizona is trying to put butts in the seats.

They're trying to get an electrifying player.

And he was a great player, but I'm not sure that's the best pick, but I thought they'd
pick him for business reasons, actually.

And then I thought the fourth pick, I didn't know where it would go.

that was going to be Tennessee, right?

That was going to be Tennessee.

And you think that the head coach would have picked Reese, but I kind of got the feeling
that Dable has a lot of say in that organization.

And they land up going for a wide receiver who was not considered the same prospect.

So they're

trying to build their offense.

I thought that was the pick.

That was that and the Jets pick.

Once the Jets picked Bailey, I thought it would come down.

I thought Arizona would definitely pick the running back.

And I thought it came down to what Tennessee would do when they go for offense.

I was actually surprised at the player they took though.

But then when that happened, I was sure the Giants were going to take Reese.

Absolutely sure.

There was no doubt.

And I thought they'd play him an inside linebacker.

I saw him play in college, and there's no way they could have passed on him.

I thought that would that you know, there's no way I know there's no way they could have
passed.

I mean, I don't I think the only other player they would have picked instead of him was
the guy they picked at 10 or this safety Caleb downs, but

I think they would have been happy with either of players hit five, but I don't see how
they could have passed on this player.

Well, mean, you watch a lot of college football.

I don't.

know, I watch, you know, when I'm around, I watch it.

I don't go out of my way to watch it.

I did watch the National Championship games, you know, the whole series, which was
excellent.

But I don't remember the specific players.

know, it seems like this guy from Ohio State fell to them and it was a logical choice.

Then on the 10th pick, they picked an offensive lineman, and there was just so much buzz
about the safety from Ohio State.

What was his name?

Downs?

Counts?

Caleb Downs.

So you get caught up a little bit in the hype, and they didn't pick him.

And then, of course, Dallas picks next.

And anything Dallas does, there's a...

ridiculous amount of overhype about.

So as soon as they pick Caleb down, everyone's going, oh, he's going to be in the Hall of
Fame and he's going to haunt the Giants for 15 years.

that could happen or he could be a bust.

But all I'm saying is not about him.

It's about Dallas.

It's about the ridiculous amount of

attention and hype that they get.

You know, and I got caught up in that, but then I kind of thought to myself afterwards,
became a little bit more uh comfortable with it.

I don't know if it's uh cognitive dissonance or something else, but I thought to myself,
you know, what percentage of the players are involved in every play on offense?

And there's six.

There's the quarterback and there's five offensive linemen.

There's five of the players on the field, but they're not involved in every play.

Right?

So a wide receiver during a run play, they'd be doing very little running back during a
pass play, you know, but everybody in the offensive line and the quarterback are

absolutely involved in every play.

And I thought to myself, and again, this may have been self-molification, but I said,

That makes sense.

and this is, I mean, and to the Cowboys credit, this is something they've been doing for
years, picking, uh picking offensive linemen, but picking the right ones.

And, you know, they've had a lot of success with that.

So, uh again, I became comfortable with that and the subsequent picks, you know, I don't
know these players very well.

ah You can talk more about them specifically, but you know, having picking up a pretty
highly rated uh cornerback, I thought they were going to take, you know, it seemed odd

that right before they picked somebody jumped ahead of them and took this huge nose
tackle, ah which was, you know, seemed calculated to me that the Giants waved it off.

Because they, as every team always does, saying, no, this other guy was high asanopo.

We don't know that.

And then, uh you know, the wide receiver from Notre Dame, uh you know, I had flashbacks
from Kenny Gala Day, or Holliday, whatever his name was.

The guy could never get open.

And then they said, this is a guy, this is another great contested catch guy.

And that just, to me that sent up alarms saying, okay, the guy can't get open.

So I don't, you know more about him than I do.

And then the rest of the draft, you know, it was a crap shoot for everybody.

All six round picks, unless you're the mother of one of the guys getting picked, I don't
think you know too much about him.

But overarching, I mean, I have faith in Hardboar, but you know, that's my...

the non-expert uh opinion of the draft.

You know, you know, we both were in Oregon for years, you know, I'm a big Duck fan too.

uh you know, it's kind of interesting that, you know, going to a lot of Duck games and uh
seeing a lot of these calls.

Now that there's, especially since the Ducks are in the big 10, I get to see the big 10 a
lot more than I used to.

used to see the Pac-12, right?

And, uh

It's kind of interesting, some Oregon guys, know, this guy, Caleb Downs in Ohio State,
very highly touted safety.

I actually thought the Oregon safety, Tiniman was just as good and that's how the draft
goes.

I think, I forgot who drafted him.

Oh, I think Chicago, but late in the first round.

And I would have been just as happy with him.

And so,

You know, there's a lot of hype around players.

ah I would have, he was great.

This other guy, the Jets picked uh Sadiq, tight end.

That's a player I would have loved the Giants.

I would have loved the Giants have had chance at him.

He's, he's, he's going to be great player.

ah And then I also, yeah, I think he is though.

He's really tremendous, tremendous player.

about Evan Neil.

So we'll see.

is this guy's a much more physical player.

I mean, he's like, he is like a very tough football player.

You know, he's, he's not as smooth athlete as, when was his name?

The Giants guy.

already forgot his name.

Uh, the tight end, but he was a pass catcher.

This guy's actually can do everything.

He's really good player.

And then when it was interesting and I, know, I, I don't like the jets at all.

I'm a Giants fan, but.

It's like what teams do is kind of interesting.

They picked two guys, the Jets did from the Indiana Championship roster who were both
really good players, ah but came to Indiana unheralded, the one at championship.

And it was kind of interesting how they...

They went for those players from the big programs and the championship programs.

It's just kind of interesting to me.

I thought the Jets had an interesting draft, but of course I'm not a Jets fan.

I did see Reese play in college and then.

I think that was a no-brainer.

I think that you can't have enough linemen and linebackers.

It wouldn't bother me if they chose another one.

I can't have enough.

ah Then the Giants picked the ah offensive linemen from Miami.

But this is the interesting thing.

This is I was talking about the Ducks, you know, Oregon, is that the ex-coach of the Ducks

ah is what's the name, Columbus?

He by, you know, I always call him Columbo, but that's not his last name.

ah But the guy who was the head coach for the Ducks before landing, ah came from, he was
an offensive lineman with the University of Miami in their championship years.

And he built these great offensive lines for Oregon and turned Oregon into kind of like a
very physical team.

And he mostly got these big Samoans.

For whatever reason, he had this knack for recruiting these gigantic Samoans for his
offensive line.

uh this guy, Peney Sewell, the guy who plays for the Lions, who was a very high draft
pick, he basically was the best offensive lineman in the country for the Ducks when he was

a freshman.

He was that good.

And he actually came out after his sophomore year.

He was that good.

And uh this guy, don't think is quite as athletic, but he's in the mold of the guys that
uh the six Oregon coaches done such a good job with.

And I just think that I thought when they picked at five, they were going to pick him or
Caleb Downs.

And at first,

I was disappointed they didn't pick Caleb Downs because I I saw him play and I was kind of
buying into that hype.

But I think this makes much more sense for them.

I mean, in the end, they need to build that offensive lineup.

That's more important.

They can worry about safeties later on.

The center of their football team is not there yet.

And they're starting to put it together.

And,

It's almost a year.

How many safeties can you think about in your mind that were dominated football?

I I could think of two or three.

had one, I forgot his name, this guy from, plays for the Ravens now is maybe the best
player on the team outside their quarterback.

point is it's a handful, right?

So ah I'm not overly concerned about missing out on safety.

But for that reason, and he could be one of the handful, but it doesn't keep me up at
night.

Well, you know, the Giants had him very highly rated too, I think.

the only question about this guy from Miami was that he's got some back problems.

Now that could be a problem, but I doubt they would have drafted him at 10 if they had
real concerns about it.

So especially at that position.

But I thought that was

That's a pick that a um lot of people had them taking him at five, not at 10.

So I don't think this is a huge shock at all.

um And I agree with you that I thought that they were going to get that up Ohio State
interior lineman.

um And I just thought he was going to fall to them.

And then I saw, as soon as I saw there was a trade in, I knew what was going to happen,
you know, without even his name being announced because ah somebody was going to want to

have him.

To me, he was a pretty good player.

ah He's not in the caliber of the guy they just, you know, Dexter Lawrence.

He's not in that caliber.

ah I think that if you saw the press conference with Shane and Harbaugh, Harbaugh looked

very frustrated after he picked the guy they did.

And maybe he was frustrated and chained for letting that happen, who knows.

ah But you know, that's another area they're very weak in.

And so they could really use a run stopper, that's a priority, but they need help on the
back end.

uh The guy actually in college,

Who was the much better player though was the this guy hood his teammate McCoy.

He was a much better player and he was projected before the last college season.

I saw him play as a junior.

He was projected as being a top three or four player in the whole draft.

He was that good.

He was the number one defensive back in the whole country.

But he injured his knee before the season started last year, did not play last year.

And he dropped all the way, I think, to the fourth round.

But if the guy recovers, he's going to be the better of the two players.

But uh that's an example of them not taking a player because of injury.

On talent, the guy would have been there.

But uh from everything I've heard, the guy they drafted is a good prospect.

And they need bodies.

They traded for two guys last year, neither of them really panned out.

So there we...

they pan out with the new oh administration.

Yeah.

And you know what?

I would also say that, as as the new administration is concerned, I think that may have
also had to do with why they didn't draft Caleb Downs.

I don't think they've given up totally on Nubin.

I think the coaching back there has been, coaching on the defense has been so bad that
it's hard to release.

The last couple of years, their coaching has been so terrible that it's really hard to say
because some of these guys were very good prospects and they're going to use them

differently.

So I already heard that they're going to use Nubin differently than the past regime did to
play more to his strengths.

uh we'll see what happens.

But uh he's the kind of player it wouldn't shock me if he lands up to be much better under
the uh

new regime.

think and you know, they still have on the roster guys like Hyatt and Deontay Banks, know,
people like this, the center, you know, all these guys who or Evan Neil, more

surprisingly, guys who did not play up to their draft status.

And I think it be kind of interesting.

It wouldn't shock me if one or two of them

actually emerges a pretty decent player.

I think the coaching has been very bad.

And it's hard to understand how they even made the playoffs three years ago.

Maybe they date him.

banks, know, I mean, the first thing Hardberg say was, you know, I'm looking for guys that
are football guys, eat, drink, sleep, football.

mean, I can't think of anyone that's a bigger antithesis to that than banks.

I mean, he seems disinterested.

So I'm, I'm surprised.

Yeah, no, right.

I'm surprised to some extent he's not gone now, but you can see.

He has talent.

You know, you can see him returning kicks.

He's a very good kick returner.

He's fast and he goes right through the middle.

I mean, there's not a lot of hesitation.

I know, and that doesn't seem to translate to, you know, his work at the cornerback or his
attitude in general.

But we'll see what they can do with that.

I can understand why they would keep him.

He's on, you know, still in his rookie contract.

He's an athlete, for sure.

But I wouldn't be shocked if he's cut or traded.

So what did you think of the receiver?

What did you think of the receiver from Notre Dame?

And he's really the last one to really talk about because they didn't really have another
draft picked later on, right?

So I don't think they did.

those people's mothers, Harun.

Be a little bit respectful, okay?

Did they not have a fourth or fifth round pick?

I'm trying to remember.

we traded those to go up to third round.

right.

I think that he's an interesting pick.

He had a very bad uh combine.

He was slow.

I mean, he basically did not perform well.

I think that knocked him down.

Everybody said he was the best player in the senior bowl.

And then he was horrible with the combine.

bad hair day at the combine?

He was just dropping passes.

He was slow, his time, all that.

And he didn't even catch that many passes for Notre Dame because they really didn't have a
passing team.

They had a running team.

don't even, I think he caught like 35 passes.

He just really was not that great.

But I saw a film of him.

And he's just a very tall, guy.

And you're talking about Kenny Galladay and contested catches.

That's what he's supposedly um good at.

But I think that...

I'm big tall guy.

Put me in, coach.

Yeah, well, you know, maybe that was your calling, you You're uh tall and slow, I'm short
and slow.

I'm very slow afoot, I have almost no endurance.

There's a trait you don't see much in the modern day.

You know, I ran a couple times the Portland Marathon.

I don't know if you knew.

Actually, I think one time you saw me, I was at the end of the Portland Marathon and I
came to watch a Giants game right after the Portland Marathon.

went right to Champions.

And right from...

I remember, I don't think you shout and our table cleared out.

I remember that.

I think I still had that like metallic thing they give you at the finish line.

But that's the last time I ever ran by the way.

I never ran again in my life.

Never not even 50 yards.

It just messed my knees up.

Yeah, wow, that's the way to go out.

I had a friend I grew up with, Baby Bri-Bri, you might know him.

In 1991, we played the old course at St.

Andrews, and he said, it'll never get better than this, and I'm not gonna play golf again
the rest of my life, and he hasn't.

So that's kinda you and your marathon.

You and Baby Bri-Bri.

More in common than you would've thought.

I wouldn't have thought that, but we have that in common.

anyway, and I think the giant,

receiver?

what do you, I mean, have you seen him play?

Do you think?

I've heard people say that he would be their like second receiver, but I don't think he
has enough separation.

If you watch him, you can go to YouTube.

They have like film on him and you could see that he doesn't even get that much separation
even at the college level.

Right.

Harry, now, when I go to YouTube, I'm watching giant conversations, okay?

I don't know what you're doing, but that's what I do.

finished with the Giant Conversations and my other podcast, Warrior Saint, then you're
free to check out these other videos ah because uh it was an interesting videos of him on

YouTube.

It actually showed every one of his catches last season.

There weren't that many, so they could do it, right?

There were like 35 of them.

And you would see...

was a YouTube short of all the sketches from last year.

Great.

Yeah, I it was I just saw it.

I was in I'm in Rio right now.

I've watched on YouTube here in Rio.

So I actually saw that it caught my attention.

And you can see that even at the college level, even against not great teams, he had very
little separation.

And he's not going to be out running anybody.

You could just see it on the eye test, you know, just watching right.

And

And then it's going to be even tighter coverage in the NFL.

But on the other hand, on every pass, ah he was able to come down with it.

He actually had really good hands, showed really good hands.

he's like with his arms, he's like a uh foot longer than anybody covering him.

So if the quarterback throws it up there, he gets it.

And he was a basketball player.

And so he looks like a power forward.

He's a big

He's a big tall guy with good hands, you know.

ah And I don't see him as being a full-time ah second receiver, but I think that he's
going to be the kind of guy that catches a lot of touchdowns and he's going to ah let

drives.

He's not going to have a lot of long plays, but

He's going to basically be a good guy to get the first down, to get the touchdown.

And I think that they need a guy like that.

don't really, again, all their receivers are on the shorter side and now they're going,
mean, essentially they replaced Wendell Robinson, who's a very short guy, maybe five,

eight, with a guy, I think he's six, four.

You know, so there's a tremendous difference in size.

And so, and I heard, I...

I'm actually 6'5", but I'm more like 6'10' with the Fuzz.

Alright, but you're not good at blocking.

You're just good at receiving.

So that's true with the Fed with the Fez year 65.

I'm a cream puff, you know what mean?

I'm not gonna block anybody, go in there, I could break a nail.

I mean, who's gonna take that kind of risk?

I know I'm not.

You know, everybody says he's actually a good blocker.

And so they're looking for this kind of player.

we'll see.

know, the Giants had a guy like him, Harris Barton or something.

the hell?

You remember that guy's name?

They drafted him, seven years ago.

He was hurt.

think you're talking about it was a tight end.

I think you're talking about...

think so.

think he was a wide receiver.

I could be wrong.

I have to have my stat team uh look that up.

know, they're in the wings.

eh pulling up all the statistics that we need to make this show credible.

But he had a weird name.

Began with a B, got hurt a lot, and then he flamed out.

You we could, we can dedicate our next giant conversation to him when we find out.

Bader played center field for both the Yankees and the Mets.

Well, it was something like that.

I forget his actual name, it was...

He was Billed the same way as ah this guy.

So, but we'll see.

You know, we'll see what happens.

you know, it started with Jerry Reese picking, just getting very cute, picking these very
athletic, nimble guys who really weren't football players.

And that really depleted the talent of the team over the years.

And it just seems now that they're getting back to just wanting to pick big, strong guys
and win in the trenches and they're going to be playing a different.

type of ball they brought in this huge fullback.

They've got a tight end who can block here.

They got a couple of tight ends who can block.

They got wide receivers who can block.

They're bringing in, they're starting to drift and bring in these offensive linemen.

It's gonna be a lot of, they're giving a lot of guys second chances here this year, hoping
that at least one catches.

They got Evan Neal.

They've got this guy from Baltimore who was a first round pick who never worked out for
Baltimore.

And they are even bringing back the Azuda, which kind of shocked me.

But basically...

guys are not gonna make it out of camp, half of them, right?

But I mean, why?

I guess why not?

they have nothing to, you know, basically, uh, Harbaugh, I think when they came out of
school thought that they had some talent and he's got, he's got some feeling that he's

going to bring out the best in it.

Maybe you will.

Yeah, well, I mean, if you look at the Giants as constituted now and you look at where
there's still improvement opportunities, I mean, you go to the defensive line, right?

But I don't, I think the defensive line, you can kind of get by if you have just a
competent rotation.

I don't think you have to have, you know,

an absolute dominating player.

mean, that's nice if you have it, but if you have six guys who can play half the snaps and
are fresh and can just kind of, you know, hold the fork down while the linebackers uh

clean up a lot of stuff, I think they could be okay there.

Now, I think they're shorter, those six guys.

and I'm sure to add some and you know this might not be a completely finished uh painting
by uh this year but I think you know a rotation of guys uh is I think is a technique that

I've seen be successful and I'm not overly I'm not overworked worried about that

I'm kind of more worried about the secondary than even the defensive line.

But like you said, we have Hardball and ah Wills.

I have faith that he's going to get the most out of the people that he has.

So uh you also mention you're in Rio de Janeiro ah and a shameless plug of your other
podcast, the culture experience.

uh Or you're saying culture experience.

So I you've been traveling now for a couple of months and I definitely want to hear a
little bit about your experience, but just a slight diversion.

Going back to baby Broadway, his brother, Brucie, uh was uh his wife became a kind of
executive at Xerox and they got sent to Rio for two years, Simon.

And they lived through the first carnival, but they weren't up for the second one.

So they gave uh myself and uh my friend, Goo, uh

This is in like 1996 or 7, I can't remember exactly.

They gave us their beachfront apartment on Ipanema beach for Carnival and hooked us up
with all their uh Brazilian friends.

you know, just what a unique opportunity and experience.

was just wonderful.

The Brazilians are interesting, fun loving.

uh spectacularly unreliable people, some of them are.

But I shouldn't say unreliable.

I shouldn't say unreliable.

They're casual.

And the casualness that we wouldn't accept in the Northeast or other places is accepted
there.

what a town.

That's quite a town.

You know, I'm gonna be here five days.

My only regret is I didn't plan to stay here longer.

I've been here before, but I forgot how much there is actually to do here.

We're gonna go up today, me and my wife are gonna go up to Sugarloaf, which I'm sure you
went to while you were here.

So it was either going up to Sugarloaf or, you know, Christ the Redeemer cable car up
there.

But I think actually that's higher.

you converting, Harry?

What's going on?

Well, that's the place to go to convert.

You know, they do baptisms up there.

They actually do it just in case.

You're only there for five days.

Take in a baptism.

I don't know, well, you were brought up in the tribe there, that's your tribe, So no, but
I've been to both places.

in a...

You weren't born a Sikh either, so, you know, we both have...

my own.

We have tribes that we came from.

That's right, but you've been there for a couple months uh in South America.

You know, and I think in the first, our first joint conversation episode, I mentioned that
you were a Midland celebrity in South America.

And it's good to see that continuing your, you know, uh pandering to your fans in the
South.

what though?

It's been really amazing.

We've been, me and some other people who are.

It's almost like a kind of, call it almost like a missionary trip, but we're, we've been
in, we started over a month ago in Chile and we've been in Chile, Uruguay, a couple of

places in Argentina, and now we just finished up our commitments in Brazil.

Just a tremendous experience, just unbelievably.

you know, I, and later between the pandemic and

You have in the health crisis I had a couple of years ago.

I actually haven't done this in a while and now I'm 74 and I I'm trying to move around
like I was 54.

It's well, you'll see in a couple of years.

It's hard to get my bones around and it used to be it really is.

So, you know, I used to you're you're probably that kind of tourist.

You know, I'm here.

I want to see everything on one day.

I'm running around.

I actually can't do that anymore.

I have to be like.

satisfied with, you know, seeing him like one place a day and just chilling out, having
some cappuccino and then pão de queijo, my favorite, the cheese bread is great here.

Pão de queijo.

And I try to learn some Portuguese for the trip, but it's not working out as well as I
hoped.

In the end, nobody can understand me, so it's discouraging, but I gave it my best.

By the way, just one thing, you said it was like a missionary trip.

I didn't think, you know, the proselytization was one of the tenets of the Sikh movement.

No, that's really interesting you say it.

so, no, not only is that it's the Sikhs traditionally are very universalist, it's very
universalist faith and actually respects everybody and does not attempt uh to convert

anybody.

In fact, that's against the tenets of the faith is that uh we don't proselytize.

But then on the other hand,

ah We're just kind of bringing awareness ah that we exist and what we're about and then,
you know, people can use that information however they like.

think that ah there's a, you know, it's trying to find the space between not sharing what
you know and pushing it on people.

So I think uh there's a point between the two.

So.

On the one hand, we're very careful about trying to push anything on anybody because we
don't believe in that.

And we respect what everybody's doing.

And on the other hand, I don't think it would be wise to withhold stuff that could be of
help to people.

it's somewhere in between.

this was, let's say it's not missionary work.

Let's say it was an educational.

It's an educational tour and if they're not interested in spiritual development, could
also talk, we could talk Giants football, right?

Barely, barely, but yes.

So you see a lot of Yankee hats here in South America, but not a lot of giant t-shirts.

Yeah, well you see Yankee hats everywhere.

it's actually, you see them in China, it's really amazing.

Even people who, it's iconic, even people who don't know who the Yankees are, are proudly
wearing their, the Yankee gear.

Yeah, I was in Madagascar once in the capital and I saw a guy wearing a Giants jersey.

So I went over and got my picture taken with them.

I don't believe he followed the franchise closely, but he just happened to have a Giants
jersey.

Another guy, uh I met another guy, he was wearing an Oneonta State shirt.

in Madagascar and Antananarivo is the capital there.

I don't know where these guys have picked up this but I don't remember seeing him on
campus when I was there.

The ubiquity of the Yankee hats also.

a little disturbing to me.

uh not a great fan of the franchise.

I respect what they did, but I know you are.

uh And I respect what you do.

But no, I get over it.

It's just an iconic symbol.

It's an iconic symbol.

And for good reason, it's an iconic franchise.

I'm immature.

I'm petty.

know, just like we mentioned before, things like, I just, even in my advanced years, I
can't seem to get over.

But anyway, like I mentioned, behind me is the Bosphorus Strait and, you know, I went to
Turkey for the first time in 1996 and was lucky enough to meet Asena when I was there, who

became, we've been married now for 23 years.

I actually met her in a Turkish heavy metal ball.

If you can believe that.

I don't know.

you were there.

I have a hard time believing she was there, but,

Asena.

Asena likes heavier music than I do, generally.

She's really getting into industrial music lately.

Bands like uh Frontline Assembly and uh Nine Inch Nails.

She likes that stuff.

But that was in 1996 and uh I've been coming to Turkey since then.

We're going tonight.

We go three times a year and I'm just a...

I'm just a 6'5 uh kind of pale looking Turk at this point.

I usually say is...

Which means my wife's Turkish so I'm 51 % Turkish.

And the Turkish people are usually pretty surprised when they hear a guy who looks like me
say something.

So they usually hug you and give you tea.

But uh you know her...

It's like my second country.

You know, and her uh parents were wonderful.

They treated me like they accepted me.

I I showed up at the door at the time.

I was 34 years old and I had shorts and all that jacket and hair down my shoulders and
they didn't blink at all.

And always felt welcome.

They're like second parents to me.

uh So it's a big part of my life.

and fortunate, I'm very fortunate in that regard and looking forward to going tomorrow for
a couple of weeks.

You and I have to dedicate an episode at some point in time to our wives and how we met
them and what kind of, how lucky we are and how special they are as people.

I think they call that the I Right.

draft time, not time to talk about personal relationships.

This is time to talk about who's going to control the line of scrimmage.

And as they say, that's why they call this the off season.

It's the off season, so we'll be able to devote uh episodes to our wives.

Okay, that's called the off season.

uh hey, listen, have a great trip and safe trip.

I'll talk to you when you get back and we'll do the wives episode maybe next as football
season hits a low ebb in the spring.

after the draft uh and hopefully, you know, both of us, especially me, I'm kind of like
doing this by the seat of my pants today.

I'm just in the kitchenette in my Airbnb here in Rio.

so things are not working like they're supposed to.

So we apologize to anybody watching it and just give us a break.

Next time it'll be definitely its usual more professional look.

ah So uh God bless, have a great trip and listen.

And as you and as you mentioned, you know, now that there's a new regime in with the
Giants, we can travel without any angst, knowing that business is being taken care of back

in New Rutherford, right?

Exactly.

Okay, buddy, take care.

Godspeed.

Have a great trip to Turkey.

We'll see you when we get back.

More episodes

Chapters

Creators and Guests

What is Giant Conversations?